Did you ever think Denver would be irrelevant?

[Medford Bronco]

It is so sad really.

In just 2 years McD has basically screwed this franchise up and made many of us feel apathetic towards football right now.

I love the Broncos but last week vs the Rams I felt that we had no chance even with that comeback to win.

It is sad really that this team has lost its identity with the running game, let the D get even worse and traded a RB for a QB that holds a clipboard when getting Tebow already. That was such a dumb move.

McD then embarasses the team with the spygate thing and IMO lies about it to Bowlen. The team is a joke now and it if lucky might win 2 more games to go 5-11.

When has a Denver team ever lost 59-14 at home to anyone. That is unacceptable really. The team turns the ball over and is not accountable for anything. Josh sucks but the players have part responsiblity as well as they have stopped listening and dont follow through as well. The KC game showed that there is some talent here and can play well but when facing adversity, it almost always fails.

I will stand by that they should have hired Spagnoulo instead of this guy. Now that the mistake has happened, I hope Bowlen fixes it and brings in a new high profile coach to clean up the mess.

What are your thoughs Bronco Nation
I am pissed off right now.

[OrangeHoof]

We were irrelevant when I first arrived in the 1960s but, back then, Broncos football was the only pro game in town so nobody was too bothered by it.

Every franchise has peaks and valleys. The Steelers were terrible for decades before the 1970s.

Losing hurts but we're only the fans. I can't imagine the players feel any better about it.

[RebelRocker]

It is so sad really.

In just 2 years McD has basically screwed this franchise up and made many of us feel apathetic towards football right now.

I love the Broncos but last week vs the Rams I felt that we had no chance even with that comeback to win.

It is sad really that this team has lost its identity with the running game, let the D get even worse and traded a RB for a QB that holds a clipboard when getting Tebow already. That was such a dumb move.

McD then embarasses the team with the spygate thing and IMO lies about it to Bowlen. The team is a joke now and it if lucky might win 2 more games to go 5-11.

When has a Denver team ever lost 59-14 at home to anyone. That is unacceptable really. The team turns the ball over and is not accountable for anything. Josh sucks but the players have part responsiblity as well as they have stopped listening and dont follow through as well. The KC game showed that there is some talent here and can play well but when facing adversity, it almost always fails.

I will stand by that they should have hired Spagnoulo instead of this guy. Now that the mistake has happened, I hope Bowlen fixes it and brings in a new high profile coach to clean up the mess.

What are your thoughs Bronco Nation
I am pissed off right now.

I'm in the same boat as you, man. I used to think that a 7-9 season for us was a disaster.

[robert ethan]

Denver is irrelevant. No one outside the city even knows who Josh McDaniels or Tim Tebow is.:coffee:

[Tned]

I'm in the same boat as you, man. I used to think that a 7-9 season for us was a disaster.

A lot of people 'used' to think that 7-9 was a disaster, and that Shanny's last 10 years were a complete failure.

Ain't looking so bad now.

[RebelRocker]

A lot of people 'used' to think that 7-9 was a disaster, and that Shanny's last 10 years were a complete failure.

Ain't looking so bad now.

No kidding. It's all in the past now. Although I think it was Shanny's time to go two years ago, we took a horrible direction by not taking a defensive coach to take over.

[nevcraw]

Denver is irrelevant. No one outside the city even knows who Josh McDaniels or Tim Tebow is.:coffee:

When relevance is gauged on what people outside the city know or not know then the terrorists have won.

[Montana Battlin Bear]

I'm very interested in how you feel Josh lied to Bowlen? I am sure that the NFL knows how to run a more thorough investigation into such matters then what your opinion is of a subject. When I heard about the Brady Quinn/Peyton Hillis trade last summer I was stoked. I personally thought Brady would be able to come in and battle for the starting position but obviously Orton has stepped his game up. Hillis was a second string FULLBACK in shanny's system. Only when one of the worst years ever on record for injuries to a group of running backs occured did he even see the field. Even this year in Cleveland he was a backup until an injury to the starter ahead of him pushed him up into the starting role. Hillis is obviously a gameday player. If Knowshon were to get the bulk of the load of our offense he would be getting a hell of a lot more stats. This is a rebuilding stage, now if nothing has changed by next year or even the year after steps will need to be taken.

[The Glue Factory]

I don't think the type of coach mattered as much as the "little" things that add up. In our case little doesn't seem so little in some cases. Cutler get's his panties in a wad because he was almost traded (Cutler wanted assurance of not being traded or McD bungled the kiss & make up session aside - both had a part to play in Cutler's exit.) So were Sharpe and Elway but they got over it. Trading away a first for a second round pick. Not letting the DC do his job thereby encouraging him to look for greener pastures (and that's being optimistic about that situation.)

He didn't exactly inherit a good situation (especially on defense) and he's made some mistakes to make things worse. In the end I don't know if Spags or Gruden or even Vince Lombardi could have done much better. Let's get real here, 32 players from the '08 team are no longer in the NFL (not just ex-Broncos) according to Xanders or Ellis. You can't go about replacing that much talent in 2 years via the draft AND free agency and still be competitive (expecting every draft/trade to pan out is just ludicrous.)

In the end the Broncos have been through a really hard 2 years and there's likely more hard years acomin' even if we get the perfect HC in 2011. Bowlen's never been through the hard time like Top and all the other fans in the 60's and early 70's.

[robert ethan]

I'm very interested in how you feel Josh lied to Bowlen? I am sure that the NFL knows how to run a more thorough investigation into such matters then what your opinion is of a subject. When I heard about the Brady Quinn/Peyton Hillis trade last summer I was stoked. I personally thought Brady would be able to come in and battle for the starting position but obviously Orton has stepped his game up. Hillis was a second string FULLBACK in shanny's system. Only when one of the worst years ever on record for injuries to a group of running backs occured did he even see the field. Even this year in Cleveland he was a backup until an injury to the starter ahead of him pushed him up into the starting role. Hillis is obviously a gameday player. If Knowshon were to get the bulk of the load of our offense he would be getting a hell of a lot more stats. This is a rebuilding stage, now if nothing has changed by next year or even the year after steps will need to be taken.

Hear, hear!:beer:

[Dean]

I'm very interested in how you feel Josh lied to Bowlen? I am sure that the NFL knows how to run a more thorough investigation into such matters then what your opinion is of a subject. When I heard about the Brady Quinn/Peyton Hillis trade last summer I was stoked. I personally thought Brady would be able to come in and battle for the starting position but obviously Orton has stepped his game up. Hillis was a second string FULLBACK in shanny's system. Only when one of the worst years ever on record for injuries to a group of running backs occured did he even see the field. Even this year in Cleveland he was a backup until an injury to the starter ahead of him pushed him up into the starting role. Hillis is obviously a gameday player. If Knowshon were to get the bulk of the load of our offense he would be getting a hell of a lot more stats. This is a rebuilding stage, now if nothing has changed by next year or even the year after steps will need to be taken.

McD in both words and actions has indicated he is not rebuilding. He has not released his older vets. He hasn't gone to getting a maximum number of draft picks to replenish the roster. He has not invested picks in positions that require time to develop like the D-line.

He has looked to aging vets aquired through free agency to shore up the defense (the weakest part of thr team). Even if they were all successful which they have not been they were only a one or at most two year delay.

He has released young talent which he then has to turn around and use his high draft picks to replace.:confused:

IMO this is not a rebuild. We have not shown any improvement other than last year's defense and the man most responsible for that didn't want to work under the present leadership. We are back to as bad or worse than we were. I ask myself which phase of the game has improved over two years ago? My answer is none of them. McD chose his schemes and his players if there is to be a tern around this year we should have seen something definite. It hasn't happened. To continue to make the same mistakes, I believe, is insane.:2thumbsdown:

Keeping the mismanagement we presently have only prolongs and makes the successor's job more difficult. IMO we need to cut our losses. To continue to regress is not the answer. :coffee:

[UrbanBounca]

We were irrelevant when I first arrived in the 1960s but, back then, Broncos football was the only pro game in town so nobody was too bothered by it.

Every franchise has peaks and valleys. The Steelers were terrible for decades before the 1970s.

Losing hurts but we're only the fans. I can't imagine the players feel any better about it.

Come on, that's a lame excuse. Football was at the turning point in the 60s. This is a new age in football. There is no reason for a professional team to be this inconsistent and lacking. I was laughing with the Lions a few years back, because I generally felt bad for them. They were terrible. Now, the Broncos are the new Lions.

There are a couple things I've seen that are pretty much guaranteed this year.

- Our running game is not a threat at all.
- McD will almost certainly make bad calls.
- The Broncos will NOT comeback if they go down in the first half.

This football team has no emotion.
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[Tned]

Come on, that's a lame excuse. Football was at the turning point in the 60s. This is a new age in football. There is no reason for a professional team to be this inconsistent and lacking. I was laughing with the Lions a few years back, because I generally felt bad for them. They were terrible. Now, the Broncos are the new Lions.


I have to completely disagree with this statement. Virtually every team in the NFL goes through down periods, which include one or more low, single-digit win seasons. This is cyclical and nearly no team in the NFL has gone as long since the last down cycle as Denver has, but the new age of football didn't eliminate the cyclical nature of success and failure in the NFL.

[Canmore]

I have to completely disagree with this statement. Virtually every team in the NFL goes through down periods, which include one or more low, single-digit win seasons. This is cyclical and nearly no team in the NFL has gone as long since the last down cycle as Denver has, but the new age of football didn't eliminate the cyclical nature of success and failure in the NFL.

We haven't had a record like this since the early 70's. If it wasn't for McDaniels arrogance we wouldn't be looking at it now.

[TXBRONC]

No kidding. It's all in the past now. Although I think it was Shanny's time to go two years ago, we took a horrible direction by not taking a defensive coach to take over.

I don't think taking an offensive minded coach was the problem. It's the decision of Bowlen and Ellis to cut out the Goodmens and give a 33 year old coach responisibilty he wasn't ready for.

[Nomad]

I have to completely disagree with this statement. Virtually every team in the NFL goes through down periods, which include one or more low, single-digit win seasons. This is cyclical and nearly no team in the NFL has gone as long since the last down cycle as Denver has, but the new age of football didn't eliminate the cyclical nature of success and failure in the NFL.

I agree! There are a number of factors teams rise and fall but I'm not niave enough to think the BRONCOS was invincible of falling!!

[missingnumber7]

But are they really irrelevant? With 3 Division games that mean tons for those 3 teams, we really can shape the playoff picture. We can push Arizona out completely, we can give the texans a boost out the door, we can effect who wins the division. And honestly I think there is a legitimate chance. I don't think there are any games left on our schedule that you look at and say thats a loss. I really don't. There are 5 winnable games. It all starts by showing up this weekend against the Chiefs. So to say we are irrelevant I think not. Honestly there is no team in this league that is irrelevant. Ask the Ravens and Steelers about the Bills. Ask the Patriots about the Lions. The minute you take a team forgranted and consider them irrelevant you get your ass bitten. So I hope the Chiefs, Cardinals, Raiders, Texans, and Chargers consider us irrelevant and an easy win.

[Northman]

But are they really irrelevant? With 3 Division games that mean tons for those 3 teams, we really can shape the playoff picture. We can push Arizona out completely, we can give the texans a boost out the door, we can effect who wins the division. And honestly I think there is a legitimate chance. I don't think there are any games left on our schedule that you look at and say thats a loss. I really don't. There are 5 winnable games. It all starts by showing up this weekend against the Chiefs. So to say we are irrelevant I think not. Honestly there is no team in this league that is irrelevant. Ask the Ravens and Steelers about the Bills. Ask the Patriots about the Lions. The minute you take a team forgranted and consider them irrelevant you get your ass bitten. So I hope the Chiefs, Cardinals, Raiders, Texans, and Chargers consider us irrelevant and an easy win.

Did you really think at the time that St. Louis in Denver was a loss? I didnt. So while i might agree that beating KC when we did was a surprise there is nothing to suggest we are going to play spoilers at this present time. We just arent playing consistent enough to do that.

[missingnumber7]

Did you really think at the time that St. Louis in Denver was a loss? I didnt. So while i might agree that beating KC when we did was a surprise there is nothing to suggest we are going to play spoilers at this present time. We just arent playing consistent enough to do that.

Did I think it was a loss, hell no. But the point I am trying to make is we are a long ways from being irrelevant. Irrelevant is the Raiders for the last 3 years, the lions for the last 3 to 4 years. It takes more than 1 3-8 record to be irrelevant. I just think that irrelevant is the wrong word to use. That term would be something you would use when every team in the league knows they can play you road or home and knows they can beat you. And that definately isn't the case for this team. Like I said, every game we have left is winnable with maximum effort. Which is what I expect out of the Broncos every time they step on the field.

[TXBRONC]

But are they really irrelevant? With 3 Division games that mean tons for those 3 teams, we really can shape the playoff picture. We can push Arizona out completely, we can give the texans a boost out the door, we can effect who wins the division. And honestly I think there is a legitimate chance. I don't think there are any games left on our schedule that you look at and say thats a loss. I really don't. There are 5 winnable games. It all starts by showing up this weekend against the Chiefs. So to say we are irrelevant I think not. Honestly there is no team in this league that is irrelevant. Ask the Ravens and Steelers about the Bills. Ask the Patriots about the Lions. The minute you take a team forgranted and consider them irrelevant you get your ass bitten. So I hope the Chiefs, Cardinals, Raiders, Texans, and Chargers consider us irrelevant and an easy win.

Yes we are really irrelevant imho. We might be able to play the role of spoiler but in the big picture I don't think that makes us relevant.

[Northman]

Did I think it was a loss, hell no. But the point I am trying to make is we are a long ways from being irrelevant. Irrelevant is the Raiders for the last 3 years, the lions for the last 3 to 4 years. It takes more than 1 3-8 record to be irrelevant. I just think that irrelevant is the wrong word to use. That term would be something you would use when every team in the league knows they can play you road or home and knows they can beat you. And that definately isn't the case for this team. Like I said, every game we have left is winnable with maximum effort. Which is what I expect out of the Broncos every time they step on the field.

I see what your saying.

[OrangeHoof]

Until they outlaw losing, the NFL will always have just as many losers as winners. The Patriots had long periods of sucking before their current great era. The 49ers were terrible in the late 70s before their dynasty of the 80s and early 90s. The Colts were great in the Unitas days of the 50s and 60s then sucked for most of the 70s, 80s and 90s before Manning and Dungy arrived.

What all the great periods had in common were four things - an innovative coach who put together either a superior offense, superior defense or both, a GM who acquired good talent and built around key players, an owner who spent the money then didn't screw things up and a quarterback who could perform well under pressure.

In that sense, I understand hiring Josh as, essentially, Shanny 2.0. But the NFL has seen a ton of good coordinators who couldn't cut it as head coaches because they lacked something - talent, organization, focus, etc.

But I do think it was a mistake not to focus on a defensive mind for HC because we could have let the Cutler-Marshall-ZBS system work a few more years under Dennison or whomever and been miles ahead by fixing the defense first which was and still is sorely in need of an overhaul.

[Tned]

Until they outlaw losing, the NFL will always have just as many losers as winners. The Patriots had long periods of sucking before their current great era. The 49ers were terrible in the late 70s before their dynasty of the 80s and early 90s. The Colts were great in the Unitas days of the 50s and 60s then sucked for most of the 70s, 80s and 90s before Manning and Dungy arrived.

What all the great periods had in common were four things - an innovative coach who put together either a superior offense, superior defense or both, a GM who acquired good talent and built around key players, an owner who spent the money then didn't screw things up and a quarterback who could perform well under pressure.

In that sense, I understand hiring Josh as, essentially, Shanny 2.0. But the NFL has seen a ton of good coordinators who couldn't cut it as head coaches because they lacked something - talent, organization, focus, etc.

But I do think it was a mistake not to focus on a defensive mind for HC because we could have let the Cutler-Marshall-ZBS system work a few more years under Dennison or whomever and been miles ahead by fixing the defense first which was and still is sorely in need of an overhaul.

All good points. Nice post.

[BroncoJoe]

...

Now, the Broncos are the new Lions.

...

Good grief. Talk about being a drama queen.

[UrbanBounca]

Good grief. Talk about being a drama queen.

What do you want to bet we don't win another game for entire season? We may beat AZ, but I doubt it. I have lost all hope for this season.

We ARE the new Lions, face it.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[BroncoJoe]

What do you want to bet we don't win another game for entire season? We may beat AZ, but I doubt it. I have lost all hope for this season.

We ARE the new Lions, face it.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Talk to me if we go 10-15 years without winning.

We're hardly the Lions. Face it.

[Ravage!!!]

Did I think it was a loss, hell no. But the point I am trying to make is we are a long ways from being irrelevant. Irrelevant is the Raiders for the last 3 years, the lions for the last 3 to 4 years. It takes more than 1 3-8 record to be irrelevant. I just think that irrelevant is the wrong word to use. That term would be something you would use when every team in the league knows they can play you road or home and knows they can beat you. And that definately isn't the case for this team. Like I said, every game we have left is winnable with maximum effort. Which is what I expect out of the Broncos every time they step on the field.


Every team that faces us, is marking us down as a "probable" win. No team in the NFL is "easy." Any team can win on any given Sunday when they have their best game (unless that team is having their best games). But our team is BAD. Its bad bad. If we ever win another game, its an UPSET because we are bad, and that team is considered to be better.

Our team is as irrelevant as I've ever seen it... EVER.

[UrbanBounca]

Every team that faces us, is marking us down as a "probable" win. No team in the NFL is "easy." Any team can win on any given Sunday when they have their best game (unless that team is having their best games). But our team is BAD. Its bad bad. If we ever win another game, its an UPSET because we are bad, and that team is considered to be better.

Our team is as irrelevant as I've ever seen it... EVER.

I agree with your entire post.
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[NorthernLights]

To all Bronco fans-
Take this from a long standing Charger fan, your team is not irrelevant! The Broncos have been very good for a very long period of time. The organization has had one double digit losing season since 1967 and that is freaking incredible. My team has had 12 seasons with double digit loses in the same period.

Your team is not anything like the Lions, period, end of discussion. The bar is very high regarding expectations and when a team doesn't meet those expectations, it feels a lot worse than it really is. Trust me, the Broncos have a good team and are not going to be in an extended spiral akin to the Raiders or Lions.

Good luck this weekend.

NL

[Northman]

To all Bronco fans-
Take this from a long standing Charger fan, your team is not irrelevant! The Broncos have been very good for a very long period of time. The organization has had one double digit losing season since 1967 and that is freaking incredible. My team has had 12 seasons with double digit loses in the same period.

Your team is not anything like the Lions, period, end of discussion. The bar is very high regarding expectations and when a team doesn't meet those expectations, it feels a lot worse than it really is. Trust me, the Broncos have a good team and are not going to be in an extended spiral akin to the Raiders or Lions.

Good luck this weekend.

NL


Thanks for the support. I agree. Times are bleak but we havent reached the Lions pennacle yet.

[robert ethan]

McD in both words and actions has indicated he is not rebuilding. He has not released his older vets. He hasn't gone to getting a maximum number of draft picks to replenish the roster. He has not invested picks in positions that require time to develop like the D-line.

He has looked to aging vets aquired through free agency to shore up the defense (the weakest part of thr team). Even if they were all successful which they have not been they were only a one or at most two year delay.

He has released young talent which he then has to turn around and use his high draft picks to replace.:confused:

IMO this is not a rebuild. We have not shown any improvement other than last year's defense and the man most responsible for that didn't want to work under the present leadership. We are back to as bad or worse than we were. I ask myself which phase of the game has improved over two years ago? My answer is none of them. McD chose his schemes and his players if there is to be a tern around this year we should have seen something definite. It hasn't happened. To continue to make the same mistakes, I believe, is insane.:2thumbsdown:

Keeping the mismanagement we presently have only prolongs and makes the successor's job more difficult. IMO we need to cut our losses. To continue to regress is not the answer. :coffee:

Broncos defense finished higher than their offense in 2009, league wide. By a fair margin. Check the facts. He "propped up" the #6 overall defense in the league, I believe. Which young talent did he "release"? He traded guys in their mid 20s like Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Smith, but outside of that younger players who left simply got beat out for their job. Most of them are out of the NFL.

[Tned]

To all Bronco fans-
Take this from a long standing Charger fan, your team is not irrelevant! The Broncos have been very good for a very long period of time. The organization has had one double digit losing season since 1967 and that is freaking incredible. My team has had 12 seasons with double digit loses in the same period.

Your team is not anything like the Lions, period, end of discussion. The bar is very high regarding expectations and when a team doesn't meet those expectations, it feels a lot worse than it really is. Trust me, the Broncos have a good team and are not going to be in an extended spiral akin to the Raiders or Lions.

Good luck this weekend.

NL

Thanks for the post. Many Broncos fans are too emotionally invested in the team and upset by this bad 21 game stretch, to realize how truly lucky we've been.

[Medford Bronco]

To all Bronco fans-
Take this from a long standing Charger fan, your team is not irrelevant! The Broncos have been very good for a very long period of time. The organization has had one double digit losing season since 1967 and that is freaking incredible. My team has had 12 seasons with double digit loses in the same period.

Your team is not anything like the Lions, period, end of discussion. The bar is very high regarding expectations and when a team doesn't meet those expectations, it feels a lot worse than it really is. Trust me, the Broncos have a good team and are not going to be in an extended spiral akin to the Raiders or Lions.

Good luck this weekend.

NL

Does that mean that Josh will be fired at seasons end before he messes up this team even more

[Medford Bronco]

Thanks for the post. Many Broncos fans are too emotionally invested in the team and upset by this bad 21 game stretch, to realize how truly lucky we've been.

Maybe We (I especially) have been spoiled over the last 25 or so years.

I have to watch a great team each week in NE (I admire them for it really not my fav though) and it sucks to be a joke next to them for me.

I hate it with every bone in my body. Thinking that each game is a loss. It pains me. Sorry spoiled, oh well.

I just love the NFL playoffs so much and to not be in them for now 5 years just sucks to me and I feel there is no end in sight.

[Dean]

Broncos defense finished higher than their offense in 2009, league wide. By a fair margin. Check the facts. He "propped up" the #6 overall defense in the league, I believe.

The fact is that McD ran off the person responsible for that turn around. Now, we are worse than we we were in 2008.


Which young talent did he "release"? He traded guys in their mid 20s like Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Smith, but outside of that younger players who left simply got beat out for their job. Most of them are out of the NFL.

Mid 20's are the younger players in the league. They are still on their first contract with several years of service ahead of them. To replace Cutler we traded Hillis a 6th and a conditional pick. We also used a first to draft Tebow. To replace Marshall we used a first round pick this last year. To replace Sheffler we traded a player we gave up a first round pick for.

He did trade younger players and were forced to use high draft picks to replace them.:coffee:

[dogfish]

The fact is that McD ran off the person responsible for that turn around. Now, we are worse than we we were in 2008.



Mid 20's are the younger players in the league. They are still on their first contract with several years of service ahead of them. To replace Cutler we traded Hillis a 6th and a conditional pick. We also used a first to draft Tebow. To replace Marshall we used a first round pick this last year. To replace Sheffler we traded a player we gave up a first round pick for.

He did trade younger players and were forced to use high draft picks to replace them.:coffee:

pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain. . .

[PAINTERDAVE]

Last season...
our revamped defense started tough,
and Orton barely won 5 games thanks to them.
I say 5 because the Raiders game was awesome...
we blew them out in both phases.

So we went into the bye, way lucky to be 6-0...
thanks to Nolan and the new defensive scheme that no team had figured out.

Then... they all figured it out.
I remember every body complaining last year
that the defense collapsed..
they were tired...
the schemes stopped working.

Nolan and Josh clashed... Nolan wanted out.
Josh said "See ya."

The defense did not just get bad under Wink...
it was bad the whole second half under Nolan as well.

It is defensive talent that was and is lacking.

The offensive line was addressed... time to draft the defensive line.
Maybe throw in another o-lineman as well.

I am not throwing in the towel on my team... just on this season.
I think we could be right back in the swing of things pretty quickly..
with the next draft and a rebuild with Tebow at the helm.
We have a pretty good position coming...
I really think we have a greatly improved 2011...
and I expect we will be competitive in 2012.

I expect after a KC debacle tomorrow....
we might see some rookie development happening.

I have patience. It is a virtue. We will rise from the ashes.

[Canmore]

Last season...
our revamped defense started tough,
and Orton barely won 5 games thanks to them.
I say 5 because the Raiders game was awesome...
we blew them out in both phases.

So we went into the bye, way lucky to be 6-0...
thanks to Nolan and the new defensive scheme that no team had figured out.

Then... they all figured it out.
I remember every body complaining last year
that the defense collapsed..
they were tired...
the schemes stopped working.

Nolan and Josh clashed... Nolan wanted out.
Josh said "See ya."

The defense did not just get bad under Wink...
it was bad the whole second half under Nolan as well.

It is defensive talent that was and is lacking.

The offensive line was addressed... time to draft the defensive line.
Maybe throw in another o-lineman as well.

I am not throwing in the towel on my team... just on this season.
I think we could be right back in the swing of things pretty quickly..
with the next draft and a rebuild with Tebow at the helm.
We have a pretty good position coming...
I really think we have a greatly improved 2011...
and I expect we will be competitive in 2012.

I expect after a KC debacle tomorrow....
we might see some rookie development happening.

I have patience. It is a virtue. We will rise from the ashes.

I love your optimism. I wished I shared it but I'm afraid we are going to be in the ashes for some time.

[Tned]

Maybe We (I especially) have been spoiled over the last 25 or so years.

I have to watch a great team each week in NE (I admire them for it really not my fav though) and it sucks to be a joke next to them for me.

I hate it with every bone in my body. Thinking that each game is a loss. It pains me. Sorry spoiled, oh well.

I just love the NFL playoffs so much and to not be in them for now 5 years just sucks to me and I feel there is no end in sight.

I hear you and feel much the same way. I was just pointing out that we are far, far from being in the same class as Detroit and company.

[scott.475]

I never thought we would be worse than the Cleveland Browns...CLEVELAND FREAKING BROWNS!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

We're not irrelevant at all. As a matter of fact, we're a circled win on most teams' calendars as a turnaround game and we're vital to many other teams' success this season.


:drinking: