A former Broncos' take on Gruden

[rationalfan]

Thought this was relevant given all the "hire gruden" people on this board. it's from a deadspin.com article by Nate Jackson.

"But we're talking about Jon Gruden here, and to Gruden, diabolical football robot blowhard, losing a football game is worse than someone dying. This is not hyperbole. He's the kind of football coach you don't want to play for. Sure, he knows his shit. But he's also a guy who'll throw a player under the bus on national television just for not being adequately sad-faced. You saw what he did to Derek Anderson. Imagine how he treated his players behind closed doors."

here's more:
http://deadspin.com/5703213/

[rationalfan]

another tidbit from jackson's piece i found very interesting:

"I witnessed a similar situation in Denver with Jake Plummer and a local media that couldn't hide their John Elway-induced boners. Nothing Jake ever did was Elway enough: the way he played, the way he looked, the way he talked. This media obsession essentially swayed public opinion away from Jake and his three straight playoff appearances, and he was benched mid-season with a 7-4 record. The Broncos haven't made the playoffs since."

i think the same sentiment could be made about us, broncos fans, regarding every player post-elway, and every coach post-shanny (including whomever is hired after mcd, whenever that is).

too bad jackson's play wasn't as enthralling/effective as his writing.

[Fan in Exile]

I think what swayed us were Plummer's interceptions. I've read Nate's stuff since he retired, but it always comes across as a little whiny. He's totally on the player's side and hasn't shown much objectivity at all.

[Northman]

While some fans do act like that most of them dont. Plus, Jackson is just bitter that he wasnt a star in Denver. This is comical.

[rationalfan]

I think what swayed us were Plummer's interceptions. I've read Nate's stuff since he retired, but it always comes across as a little whiny. He's totally on the player's side and hasn't shown much objectivity at all.

agreed. still, he's a good writer sharing a perspective we don't often hear/read.

[Jake Klug]

another tidbit from jackson's piece i found very interesting:

"I witnessed a similar situation in Denver with Jake Plummer and a local media that couldn't hide their John Elway-induced boners. Nothing Jake ever did was Elway enough: the way he played, the way he looked, the way he talked. This media obsession essentially swayed public opinion away from Jake and his three straight playoff appearances, and he was benched mid-season with a 7-4 record. The Broncos haven't made the playoffs since."

i think the same sentiment could be made about us, broncos fans, regarding every player post-elway, and every coach post-shanny (including whomever is hired after mcd, whenever that is).

too bad jackson's play wasn't as enthralling/effective as his writing.

He's completely wrong about Plummer. He had a chance to deliver like Elway did. Did Plummer do it? No. End of story. Its an interesting tactic to scapegoat the media.

And, btw, if you adhere to that logic, people would be pro-McDaniels and if youve read Mike Klis, youd know how much of a propaganda machine he has been for McDaniels.

[robert ethan]

That is all too true from my experience on this board. It's like visiting your Grandmother's house. Don't dare touch or move anything, and everything was perfect in "the good old days". A dusty, cobwebbed, museum.

[D. Moore]

Nate jackson who? Nate you sound a lil bitter. never understood why bronco fans adored this bum he was no more than a wasted roster spot period. Nate what swayed us fans with plummer was his lack of football intelligence shit his own coach didnt believe in him thats what swayed us
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[Rick]

Maybe I can see a little point with Nate and the Jake comment.

I take Gruden's side on the DA remark though. During a game your playing like shit and team is losing there is no room for smiles.

[G_Money]

I get what Nate is saying about Gruden. He's very unforgiving. That's one reason he relies on locker room leaders - he takes himself out of the room once all he's doing is ranting, and it's their job to give people positive strokes after losses. It's one of my concerns about him.

Tom Coughlin is the same way. He needs the locker room to understand how he works and buy in, or it's all lost.

Doesn't disqualify Gruden for the job but it's something to keep in mind.

As for Jake, though...he got benched because he only cared about football on Sundays, and Shanahan's a perfectionist who wants it every day of the week. Plummer was a slacker in the video room and in practice. He was a college QB as a pro, and Mike lost patience.

The reason we stopped making the playoffs after that, though, was because we fired Coyer after making him alter his scheme following the Steelers playoff blowout, and got far worse DCs in here in return.

We can blame it on the QB, but the offense was good enough to make the playoffs in 07 and 08, it was the D that failed. Jake vs. Jay didn't make a difference there.

~G

[Northman]

Nate jackson who? Nate you sound a lil bitter. never understood why bronco fans adored this bum he was no more than a wasted roster spot period. Nate what swayed us fans with plummer was his lack of football intelligence shit his own coach didnt believe in him thats what swayed us
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:lol:

I was thinking the same thing too. For whatever reason he had this little cult following. Pretty hilarious for a guy who was utter shit on the field.

[MileHighCrew]

save your smiles for the strip club after the game, like Pac-Man

[Northman]

As for Jake, though...he got benched because he only cared about football on Sundays, and Shanahan's a perfectionist who wants it every day of the week. Plummer was a slacker in the video room and in practice. He was a college QB as a pro, and Mike lost patience.



So many people lose sight of this concept. Jake was a competitor on gameday but was never a student of the game and it showed when he played at his worst.

[Rick]

Gruden is just looking for DA to want to win a mother ******* game

[MileHighCrew]

Gruden has nothing to do with the Broncos and the fact Nate the Fake use this as a chance to take shots at the fans that cheered him and the media that supports that team is sad.

[Nomad]

I don't see Nate as throwing fans under the bus but telling the truth about BRONCO fans and Gruden!!

Plummer would have done enough to help win games and if Shanahan would have focused on the defense (especially the dline because the players were there) for the 06 draft and possibly the 07, then possibly found his QB after that if Plummer didn't pan out then this team would be in a different direction!!

[G_Money]

The funniest part to me about calling out Gruden over the whole thing, though, is what Gruden actually SAID:


"What I don't like to see, walking down on these sidelines, is the demeanor sometimes of the players on the bench when they're playing bad. When you're down 18 points and you've had 5 first downs...I want it to bother you. I want it to really bother all of us. Not that it doesn't bother DA there, but I don't even want his teammates to see that, nor do I want any of our fans to see that type of reaction."

That seems like pretty light criticism to me. It sure pissed off Nate Jackson, but all he said was the above. Even the impression of taking it lightly isn't something he wants players giving to other players or to fans.

Then Anderson blowing up in his news conference like Ryan Leaf 2.0 gives a pretty good indication of why Ryan Anderson might have trouble being the leader of his football team.

For which Nate calls out the needling reporter...who had only asked what they talked about and was rebuffed, then why he was laughing and had the laughter denied, then told DA that they'd all seen the footage of him laughing and had DA blow up.

Somers is gonna have trouble getting good quotes out of that locker room. DA is gonna have trouble living this down.

But IMO the thoughts on Gruden and losing were good by Nate, but Jon didn't say anything wrong in his 20 second note about it.

~G

[BroncoStud]

I loved it when we signed Jake. Shanahan got all he could out of Plummer and it paid off for several seasons. It became obvious to me that Jake couldn't get us to the Super Bowl when we played the Steelers and Big Ben shredded our defense and Plummer struggled to complete a pass to a Bronco.

That and the left-handed interception... Yikes. If I remember correctly Orton did it last year as well lol.

I thought Shanahan made the right decision to play Cutler when he did, Plummer was HORRIBLE that season. I just don't think he loved football, loved studying the game, or really wanted to devote his life to it. He certainly had the physical tools and he did a great job with his athleticism.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I get what Nate is saying about Gruden. He's very unforgiving. That's one reason he relies on locker room leaders - he takes himself out of the room once all he's doing is ranting, and it's their job to give people positive strokes after losses. It's one of my concerns about him.

Tom Coughlin is the same way. He needs the locker room to understand how he works and buy in, or it's all lost.

Doesn't disqualify Gruden for the job but it's something to keep in mind.

As for Jake, though...he got benched because he only cared about football on Sundays, and Shanahan's a perfectionist who wants it every day of the week. Plummer was a slacker in the video room and in practice. He was a college QB as a pro, and Mike lost patience.

The reason we stopped making the playoffs after that, though, was because we fired Coyer after making him alter his scheme following the Steelers playoff blowout, and got far worse DCs in here in return.

We can blame it on the QB, but the offense was good enough to make the playoffs in 07 and 08, it was the D that failed. Jake vs. Jay didn't make a difference there.

~G

That and we replaced Kubiac with Heimerdinger.

[Dzone]

I think a better opinion would be from players that actually played for Gruden. ..that has much more credibility. What do his former players say about him? What do John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Ronde Barber, etc say about being coached by Gruden? Thats what I would be curious to know. Is Gruden a jerk to play for? If he is, why would we want him here? We have had enough bullying around here

[Northman]

The funniest part to me about calling out Gruden over the whole thing, though, is what Gruden actually SAID:



That seems like pretty light criticism to me. It sure pissed off Nate Jackson, but all he said was the above. Even the impression of taking it lightly isn't something he wants players giving to other players or to fans.

Then Anderson blowing up in his news conference like Ryan Leaf 2.0 gives a pretty good indication of why Ryan Anderson might have trouble being the leader of his football team.

For which Nate calls out the needling reporter...who had only asked what they talked about and was rebuffed, then why he was laughing and had the laughter denied, then told DA that they'd all seen the footage of him laughing and had DA blow up.

Somers is gonna have trouble getting good quotes out of that locker room. DA is gonna have trouble living this down.

But IMO the thoughts on Gruden and losing were good by Nate, but Jon didn't say anything wrong in his 20 second note about it.

~G

Yea, the Derek Anderson thing was hilarious.


Reporter: You were seen on camera laughing with Doucet in the huddle.

Anderson: No i wasnt.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Lancane]

I think a better opinion would be from players that actually played for Gruden. ..that has much more credibility. What do his former players say about him? What do John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Ronde Barber, etc say about being coached by Gruden? Thats what I would be curious to know. Is Gruden a jerk to play for? If he is, why would we want him here? We have had enough bullying around here

Or how about we ask the big man on campus, after all Tim Tebow and Gruden were close. That would probably be a good start to it all.

[Krugan]

I dont care if Jake would have studied for 6 months, that Steelers team was going to win the superbowl.

Buzzsaw comes to mind.

Point here look there, the Steelers were a better team.

Still think one of the biggest mistakes made was replacing Jake for Jay when you had a very good shot at yet another playoff. Point at this stat or that, the team was 7-4, not 4-7.

Bad choice by shanny.

And Nate, well he is Nate and im not sure he is correct here, opinion pieces are just what they are.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm glad that Nate has such valuable insight about Gruden and how he coaches and treats players even though I doubt he's even met him personally much less played for him.

Gruden made comments about a guy seeming to be having a good time while his team was getting destroyed and he was playing like shit... Frankly, I know I was pretty irked watching our guys joke around and seem amused when we were getting our assed kicked by Jokeland at HOME. I understand where Gruden is coming from completely. Joke around once you've put the game on ice. Don't disrespect the fans that pay your salary with their hard-earned money by looking like losing is funny or doesn't mean anything. When you are losing a game by that much, you're not doing your job. Maybe they'd be less jovial about being blown out if they only got paid when they won? :coffee:

[spikerman]

That is all too true from my experience on this board. It's like visiting your Grandmother's house. Don't dare touch or move anything, and everything was perfect in "the good old days". A dusty, cobwebbed, museum.

Are you being forced to stay here? I'm sure they would be happy to have you over at BM where people who criticize McDaniels tread on thin ice.

[gobroncsnv]

Amazing the memories of that Steelers game... Jake may have been the one competing the hardest out there that day. Rod Smith dropped a ball that hit him right in the chest, between the numbers. Bad blocking. Champ dropping an interception chance, blowing coverages. ZERO pass rush. Missed tackles. No adjustments to Pitt's 2 man patterns to keep everyone in blocking while we ran the world's most ineffective blitz.
The whole Denver team was AWFUL that day... Not long after the game, I remember being on the old boards, and asked anyone to name a Bronco who played even a half decent game, and the only correct answer was Sauerbrun.
Plummer had a bad game, but I have yet to see the best of the best win a game with the lack of support he had.
Ok, back to the good new days.

[topscribe]

He's completely wrong about Plummer. He had a chance to deliver like Elway did. Did Plummer do it? No. End of story. Its an interesting tactic to scapegoat the media.

And, btw, if you adhere to that logic, people would be pro-McDaniels and if youve read Mike Klis, youd know how much of a propaganda machine he has been for McDaniels.

And therein is the problem. Who can deliver like Elway did?

-----

[nevcraw]

That is all too true from my experience on this board. It's like visiting your Grandmother's house. Don't dare touch or move anything, and everything was perfect in "the good old days". A dusty, cobwebbed, museum.

my grandmother is dead.. but thanks for bringing that up.. :tsk:

[JDL]

another tidbit from jackson's piece i found very interesting:

"I witnessed a similar situation in Denver with Jake Plummer and a local media that couldn't hide their John Elway-induced boners. Nothing Jake ever did was Elway enough: the way he played, the way he looked, the way he talked. This media obsession essentially swayed public opinion away from Jake and his three straight playoff appearances, and he was benched mid-season with a 7-4 record. The Broncos haven't made the playoffs since."

i think the same sentiment could be made about us, broncos fans, regarding every player post-elway, and every coach post-shanny (including whomever is hired after mcd, whenever that is).

too bad jackson's play wasn't as enthralling/effective as his writing.

Jake Plummer's boneheaded plays is what swayed public opinion on him.

[Cugel]

And therein is the problem. Who can deliver like Elway did?-----

If we have to wait for another Elway before the Broncos can get back to another SB, then I'm going to be watching the games from a nursing home. :coffee:

You MAYBE get one player like that on a team every 30-40 years. Kind of like the Colts from Johnny Unitas till Peyton Manning. Sometimes a team will go ever longer. After Jim Kelly retired the Bills STILL haven't found a QB. If Cutler pans out this season and next, he'd be the first Bear QB to be worth mentioning in about 40 years (and no Jim McMahon doesn't count).

[Ravage!!!]

If you watch Jaws break down the game tape of the Pittsburgh game, you wouldn't be defending Jake Plummer. He showed where Jake missed reads after reads.... and that was a result of lack of preparation on Jake's part. Thats exactly why Shanahan took the chance to draft a QB when we were in position to draft a QB.

To this day, I believe it was the right draft choice,and the way Jake was playing that season.. was the right choice to put the new QB in.


As far as Nate... he says Gruden isn't the kind of coach you want to play for. REally Nate? Really? Considering your lack of NFL career, I'm betting you would like to play for just about anyone. The problem is that YOU, Nate, aren't the kind of player that most coaches want to coach.

[rcsodak]

Maybe I can see a little point with Nate and the Jake comment.

I take Gruden's side on the DA remark though. During a game your playing like shit and team is losing there is no room for smiles.

YEH! Cuz those players should be somber looking, wiping tears from each others' eyes and draping their white surrender towels over their heads in disgust!

Hmmmm...kinda reminds me of how cutler would act after throwing another int. He must be Gruden's kinda guy.



:coffee:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

YEH! Cuz those players should be somber looking, wiping tears from each others' eyes and draping their white surrender towels over their heads in disgust!

Hmmmm...kinda reminds me of how cutler would act after throwing another int. He must be Gruden's kinda guy.



:coffee:

Not saying that, but playing to win is their job after all. They don't need to be pouty or act like crybabies, but a little bit of focus and determination on the faces of the players would be nice. If you're paying someone's salaries to do a job and they are failing at that job all the while joking around and acting like it doesn't matter, the perception is they just don't care. That's what people are unhappy with.

[Rick]

YEH! Cuz those players should be somber looking, wiping tears from each others' eyes and draping their white surrender towels over their heads in disgust!

Hmmmm...kinda reminds me of how cutler would act after throwing another int. He must be Gruden's kinda guy.



:coffee:

Who said a thing about tears? Drama queen much?

I want the players to be pissed with themselves.

I want a determined look on their faces that the shit that's been happening is over.

I want to see it on their face that when they go out there they will score touch downs and the other team won't.

I want them serious not smiling.
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