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View Full Version : What has been McDaniels worst off-season move?



OrangeHorizon
11-30-2010, 08:26 PM
Is it trading Jay Cutler? Brandon Marshall? Peyton Hillis? Tony Scheffler?
Is it getting rid of Mike Nolan? Getting rid of zone blocking?
Or is it the draft picks? (Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn and all the offensive players he has brought in when we should have focused more on defense)

And here is a funny well done video I found on youtube showing all his bonehead moves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt2_C9wLNjU

dogfish
11-30-2010, 08:27 PM
giving away hillis is clearly the correct answer. . . .

Northman
11-30-2010, 08:28 PM
At this point in time it would be Hillis.

scott.475
11-30-2010, 08:34 PM
Showing up for his interview with Pat.

LordTrychon
11-30-2010, 08:38 PM
While ditching Cutler upset me the most at the time, it was understandable due to bumbling mess it had become by the time it unfolded, though fault is still at his feet. We also got good value for him.

Hillis wins.

BeefStew25
11-30-2010, 08:39 PM
Not letting Hillis bone his wife.

I Eat Staples
11-30-2010, 08:39 PM
Showing up for his interview with Pat.

:lol:

Honestly it wasn't any move in particular. It was the fact that he decided to make all of those moves when we could have used our resources on defense.

You could have made a case for any of those players being gone, but no one can properly defend the fact that he "rebuilt" an offense that didn't need major changes in the first place, and ignored fixing one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

Ravage!!!
11-30-2010, 08:42 PM
I actually believe its Cutler. He's better than the QB we have, and I believe he still has what it takes to be a top QB in the NFL. Thats how you win in the NFL, having a top QB. Trading away a young, pro-bowl, QB... trumps having a stud Hillis.... imo.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-30-2010, 08:45 PM
The Hillis trade sucks, but McDaniels wouldn't have used him anyway so I absolutely have to go with Nolan. Not only would our defense not be 32nd in the league in scoring, we'd have the perfect interim HC on the roster so we could fire McDaniels!

I Eat Staples
11-30-2010, 08:46 PM
I actually believe its Cutler. He's better than the QB we have, and I believe he still has what it takes to be a top QB in the NFL. Thats how you win in the NFL, having a top QB. Trading away a young, pro-bowl, QB... trumps having a stud Hillis.... imo.

Also, if you forget hindsight and look at the move in regard to the time it was made, the Cutler trade was by far the worst.

Buff
11-30-2010, 08:48 PM
Not letting Hillis bone his wife.

Would you let Mrs. Beef take one for the team if we could get him back?

BeefStew25
11-30-2010, 08:49 PM
Would you let Mrs. Beef take one for the team if we could get him back?

No. I will renew my season tickets instead.

topscribe
11-30-2010, 08:51 PM
Showing up for his interview with Pat.

Actually, I think that would be Pat's worst move.

It was great for McDaniels. He has about $7 million coming, whether or
not he stays, since Pat and Ellis apparently blew the opportunity to fire him
"for cause" after Spygate II.

-----

Ravage!!!
11-30-2010, 08:53 PM
Actually, I think that would be Pat's worst move.

It was great for McDaniels. He has about $7 million coming, whether or
not he stays, since Pat and Ellis apparently blew the opportunity to fire him
"for cause" after Spygate II.

-----

Unfortunately, I believe in the conference call, they already stated it wasn't a fireable offense. So they screwed themselves out of that legality.

MileHighCrew
11-30-2010, 08:55 PM
This is a trick question. They correct answer is all of the above

OrangeHorizon
11-30-2010, 08:56 PM
I think all his trades have hurt however his drafting has been atrocious. I mean trading away a first round draft pick for a second round draft pick straight up is unheard of. Then trading away that young talent for nothing (third string tight end) basically means we lost a first round pick. Also trading away 2 third round picks to move up to get Richard Quinn who was projected to be a later round pick is horrific. He has only played in one game in two seasons and has no catches! Also he has failed to address our most significant issue, defense, and has picked offensive players at positions we didn't really need (QB, RB, WR). Not to mention Knowshon and Demaryius aren't looking like first round talents. Brian Orakpo and Dez Bryant should have been drafted instead

BeefStew25
11-30-2010, 08:57 PM
Unfortunately, I believe in the conference call, they already stated it wasn't a fireable offense. So they screwed themselves out of that legality.

I actually think long term firing for cause on something possibly marginal would create a situation in which we would not be able to attract decent candidates in the future. (read: Al Davis).

It paints you as bitter and wrinkly (no offense Top).

Bowlen has a slush fund if it gets to that.

spikerman
11-30-2010, 09:02 PM
Drafting an RB at #12 for an offense that didn't particularly focus on running the ball and then using 3 more 1st round picks (4 if you count Smith) over two years to draft "projects". That has set the franchise WAY back.

dogfish
11-30-2010, 09:03 PM
Would you let Mrs. Beef take one for the team if we could get him back?

buff, would you take one from beef if we could get hillis back?

Ravage!!!
11-30-2010, 09:06 PM
I actually think long term firing for cause on something possibly marginal would create a situation in which we would not be able to attract decent candidates in the future. (read: Al Davis).

It paints you as bitter and wrinkly (no offense Top).

Bowlen has a slush fund if it gets to that.

Other than the fact it would be TOTALLY justified and understood by EVERYONE. Top coaches, like Cowher, have publically criticized McD about the cheating and how the NFL fines were too small. The Broncos firing him for cause would make sense, would tell EVERYONE that they don't accept that from their coaches, and will NOT tolerate such crap that destroys the fiber of this organization.

BeefStew25
11-30-2010, 09:07 PM
buff, would you take one from beef if we could get hillis back?

That is a great question. Buff, would you let me?

Krugan
11-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Biggest to this point would be, his first draft, the whole thing.

Well maybe not the whole thing but man what a flip flop of picks and wasted chances.

So much that could have been to a team missing so much, and the whole time the guy wasnt even ready for the draft.

That is classic setback blundering.

OrangeHorizon
11-30-2010, 09:15 PM
McDaniels has less than 100 players on his draft board while most teams have over 300 players. There are 256 players who get drafted each year

randyschwimmer7
11-30-2010, 09:23 PM
The Hillis trade sucks, but McDaniels wouldn't have used him anyway so I absolutely have to go with Nolan. Not only would our defense not be 32nd in the league in scoring, we'd have the perfect interim HC on the roster so we could fire McDaniels!

Damn! You hit the nail RIGHT on the coffin! Nice work! Could not have ever came up with anything better! Bravo!:elefant:

Buff
11-30-2010, 09:29 PM
buff, would you take one from beef if we could get hillis back?

Yes, except this time I would get it in writing beforehand.

Buff
11-30-2010, 09:31 PM
Damn! You hit the nail RIGHT on the coffin! Nice work! Could not have ever came up with anything better! Bravo!:elefant:

Wow, you really took the bull by the legs for your first post. Welcome.

Dzone
11-30-2010, 09:42 PM
The Hillis trade sucks, but McDaniels wouldn't have used him anyway so I absolutely have to go with Nolan. Not only would our defense not be 32nd in the league in scoring, we'd have the perfect interim HC on the roster so we could fire McDaniels!
Def cant argue with that..Nolan was just another guy who Mcd couldnt get along with. Its a shame to see a Bronco head coach in such a shameful way...its gonna take Rockneesque coaching to save this dude. He got a reputation as an a Ho and man, a rep like that is going to be real hard to shake. a coach without people skills is screwed, no matter how much offense he may know Either way , its sad..."You can coach for me as long as you wish" Pat Bowlen

robert ethan
11-30-2010, 10:07 PM
Having to move to the far side of the bed to make room for the baby in the middle. Other than that he's been bang on.

Tned
11-30-2010, 11:04 PM
Showing up for his interview with Pat.

Damn you, a version of the same thing was going to be mine. :mad:

With that taken...

In order:

Trying to trade for Cassel
Trading Cutler
Trading Marshall
Trading Hillis

I put them that way, because if he hadn't pursued the Cassel trade, then the blow up with Cutler wouldn't have happened, which wouldn't have led to the Cutler trade, and we will never know, but might have even prevented the Marshall trade.

While many fans with true orange spirit backed McDaniels 119% and worked themselves into a hate Cutler/Marshall frenzy, the fact is they are both elite talent and NOBODY in the NFL gives away elite talent and in the RARE cases they do, that talent caused a LOT more heartburn then either Cutler or Marshall did in practice, rather than revisionist history or the theoretical "one more mistake" land.

With Hillis, it isn't the off-season move that was the mistake, it was not playing him in '09. Since he refused to play him, and apparently decided based on practice that the '08 film was a five game anomaly, it actually made sense for him to trade him for Quinn, considering how pedestrian Orton was, and that there was no reliable backup, not to mention TC competition, for Orton. So, based on his horrible decision to not give Hillis the ball when Buckhalter was hurt, and Moreno was completely worn out, the trade made sense, even if the totality of Hillis being gone is a monumental **** up.

Now, of all of them, it is a complete toss up at this point as to what history will say is the worst move. If Cutler and the Bears keep improving and make a suprise playoff run, that could once again take the lead. If Miami gets a QB that can throw it more than 5 yards, and Marshall keeps up anything near the production he had in his first four years, then it is likely that will be continued a monumentally bad trade.

And then there is Hillis. Is he a one year wonder? Will he have longevity? Do the Browns get ANY offense on the team other than him so he doesn't have to run against 8 and 9 in the box when he's getting his 100+? One season, even as great as Hillis is having, does not a career make, but if he continues anything close to what he's doing this year, for a few more years, this will rank up there with one of the worst trades in team history.

Now, the honorable mention is how he handled Marshall in training camp. An experienced coach would not have put Marshall on the scout team; would not have made him run as a punt gunner on said scout team; would not have made him run as a safety on said scout team. An experienced coach would not have attempted to get a young, immature star under control by publicly humiliating him. In terms of his rookie mistakes, that was one of the worst and most amateurish.

Honorable mention number 2 is the First round pick wasted on Alphonso Smith. I put this one so low, because the draft is a crap shoot,and appears to be an even bigger crap shoot with McDaniels drafting, so it's hard to say how bad, in reality, losing that first round pick was. In theory, horrible, in practice, who knows. The other moves were purging very good to elite talent from the team, so those are clear **** ups.

That's all I have for now, but it was a real long day at work, so I may have missed some obvious ones.

Jake Klug
11-30-2010, 11:07 PM
Showing up for his interview with Pat.

Indeed. This was the most far reaching issue.

EMB6903
11-30-2010, 11:07 PM
#1 Trading a 1st rounder for a scrub CB
#2 Trading Hillis for a QB who does not belong in this league.

robert ethan
11-30-2010, 11:11 PM
If you guys log onto nfl.com, and go to player stats, you may notice that both Matt Cassell and Kyle Orton are outperforming Jay Cutler. For the second year in a row. You will also find that Brandon Lloyd is outperforming Brandon Marshall by a considerable margin. You have to be blindly biased to consider either of those deals "bad". That doesn't even take into consideration the change in attitude the new players bring, or two extra first and two extra second round draft picks.

turftoad
11-30-2010, 11:14 PM
Tearing apart a very young, talented, productive offense then having to rebuild it when it was the defense that needed the rebuilding all along.

Tned
11-30-2010, 11:23 PM
You have to be blindly biased to consider either of those deals "bad".

Blindly biased or just understand football and that you can't take states in isolation when comparing players.

robert ethan
11-30-2010, 11:24 PM
#1 Trading a 1st rounder for a scrub CB
#2 Trading Hillis for a QB who does not belong in this league.

#1 - Smith was rated as a first rounder in 2009 by the majority of scouts. He is currently a starter in the league and tied for second in interceptions.

#2 - Quinn, in 2009 with the Browns played 10 games, had a QB rating of around 70, 8 TDs and 7 Int. Wallace and Delhomme, two seasoned vets brought in to take over in 2010, had a combined QB rating of around 70, with 5 TDs and 8 Int between them. So, the proven NFLers (both have been in the league a decade or more, I believe), did no better than a 24 year old Brady Quinn in his first season as a starter. Brady didn't have Peyton Hillis to take half the offensive touchs, either. But Brady "does not belong in the league"?

topscribe
11-30-2010, 11:24 PM
Tearing apart a very young, talented, productive offense then having to rebuild it when it was the defense that needed the rebuilding all along.

I will never, ever forget the shock I incurred when McDaniels rode into town
and waded into the . . . offense!

I firmly believe that, had he left it alone and concentrated on drafting and
trading for defensive help, the Chargers would be looking hopelessly at the
Broncos' tail lights this year . . .

-----

robert ethan
11-30-2010, 11:26 PM
Blindly biased or just understand football and that you can't take states in isolation when comparing players.

Right, so you know INTUITIVELY who the better player is, regardless of any objective standards like statistical performance. Just because...well...because you're Tned. THATS WHY!

dogfish
11-30-2010, 11:29 PM
Right, so you know INTUITIVELY who the better player is, regardless of any objective standards like statistical performance. Just because...well...because you're Tned. THATS WHY!

oh, come on now. . . without even looking back to see what he posted, i know it's at least as justifiable as your contention that mcdaniels is the best coach in the league. . .


:D

Tned
11-30-2010, 11:29 PM
Right, so you know INTUITIVELY who the better player is, regardless of any objective standards like statistical performance. Just because...well...because you're Tned. THATS WHY!

This, along with most of your other posts in this thread, was a REALLY great post, right up until you hit "Submit Reply"....

Tned
11-30-2010, 11:31 PM
oh, come on now. . . without even looking back to see what he posted, i know it's at least as justifiable as your contention that mcdaniels is the best coach in the league. . .


:D

Yea, that's a given, right...

Earlier in the thread I was trying to create one of those long, Dog posts, but I only managed about half a Dog post. Then again, with my poodles, I'm used to half dogs, so it's probably fitting...

turftoad
11-30-2010, 11:35 PM
oh, come on now. . . without even looking back to see what he posted, i know it's at least as justifiable as your contention that mcdaniels is the best coach in the league. . .


:D

Nope, not just in the league ........ in the WORLD. Hell, he'd be the best baseball, soccer, hockey, tennis, crickett, horseshoe, pool, race car, foosball, swimming, etc, etc.............. coach in the world.

:D :D :D

robert ethan
11-30-2010, 11:47 PM
To see how many would like to undo the Cutler and Marshall trades, give back the picks (including Ayers, Thomas, Tebow, and Decker among others) and Orton, put Lloyd back on the bench. I'm betting you don't get 25% affirmatives.

dogfish
11-30-2010, 11:53 PM
To see how many would like to undo the Cutler and Marshall trades, give back the picks (including Ayers, Thomas, Tebow, and Decker among others) and Orton, put Lloyd back on the bench. I'm betting you don't get 25% affirmatives.

that depends. . . who's footing the bill for the delorean?

OrangeHorizon
11-30-2010, 11:53 PM
Robert if we had Cutler throwing the ball to Marshall, Lloyd and Scheffler with Hillis trucking people over, we would be unstoppable. And we could have devoted our draft picks to defense instead of rebuilding our offense

Tned
11-30-2010, 11:56 PM
Robert if we had Cutler throwing the ball to Marshall, Lloyd and Scheffler with Hillis trucking people over, we would be unstoppable. And we could have devoted our draft picks to defense instead of rebuilding our offense

Don't forget Royal in that mix. Could have been a special offense.

Lancane
12-01-2010, 12:03 AM
To see how many would like to undo the Cutler and Marshall trades, give back the picks (including Ayers, Thomas, Tebow, and Decker among others) and Orton, put Lloyd back on the bench. I'm betting you don't get 25% affirmatives.

Sounds good to me...can we get rid of McDaniels as well?

robert ethan
12-01-2010, 12:07 AM
Robert if we had Cutler throwing the ball to Marshall, Lloyd and Scheffler with Hillis trucking people over, we would be unstoppable. And we could have devoted our draft picks to defense instead of rebuilding our offense

Cutler had 4 years of throwing the ball to Marshall and Sheffler. They won less than half of those games. Hillis was there for a couple as well. Robert Ayers, Darcel McBath, Perrish Cox, and Syd'Quan Thompson were all added with picks acquired in those trades. There is still a mid to high second rounder coming next spring as well.

OrangeHorizon
12-01-2010, 12:16 AM
Cutler had 4 years of throwing the ball to Marshall and Sheffler. They won less than half of those games. Hillis was there for a couple as well. Robert Ayers, Darcel McBath, Perrish Cox, and Syd'Quan Thompson were all added with picks acquired in those trades. There is still a mid to high second rounder coming next spring as well.


McDaniels is a great quarterback coach and thats it. He made mediocre Cassel millions and mediocre Orton look great this year. But if he had Cutler to work with, with all those weapons we lost and we could devote our draft picks on defense rather than Richard Quinn, Knowshon Moreno, Demaryius Thomas and Tim Tebow we might be 8-3 instead of 3-8.

OrangeHorizon
12-01-2010, 12:17 AM
I apologize for using great and McDaniels in the same sentence

sneakers
12-01-2010, 12:28 AM
I would say bringing in Brandon Lloyd was a terrible move.

turftoad
12-01-2010, 12:34 AM
Cutler had 4 years of throwing the ball to Marshall and Sheffler. They won less than half of those games. Hillis was there for a couple as well. Robert Ayers, Darcel McBath, Perrish Cox, and Syd'Quan Thompson were all added with picks acquired in those trades. There is still a mid to high second rounder coming next spring as well.

And those guys have gone 5 - 15 thier last 20 games. You make no sense.

jhildebrand
12-01-2010, 12:37 AM
For me I would say Hillis. I have railed against McD on the Hillis move as loud and as often as possible.

However, seeing McD's continued insistance to not use the run, I am not sure Hillis is the biggest blunder. I would say Nolan.

Nolan was the reason for the 6-0 start. Nolan as the DC on the team this year and chances are this team is 6-5.

Tned
12-01-2010, 12:38 AM
And those guys have gone 5 - 15 thier last 20 games. You make no sense.

5-16 in the last 21, but who's counting... ;)

Buff
12-01-2010, 12:49 AM
For me I would say Hillis. I have railed against McD on the Hillis move as loud and as often as possible.

However, seeing McD's continued insistance to not use the run, I am not sure Hillis is the biggest blunder. I would say Nolan.

Nolan was the reason for the 6-0 start. Nolan as the DC on the team this year and chances are this team is 6-5.

It's all too convenient to credit the winning to Nolan and pass of the losing on McD. The "Nolan might be 6-5" argument is just wild speculation. He shares equal responsibility for the 2-8 meltdown last year as far as I'm concerned. The run defense was getting gouged on his watch too.

G_Money
12-01-2010, 12:50 AM
Nolan was the reason for the 6-0 start. Nolan as the DC on the team this year and chances are this team is 6-5.

Yeah. Losing Nolan - and replacing him with a never-was in Wink instead of a different-but-still-great coordinator - is where McDaniels lost me. I may have railed against other moves and draftpicks, but Nolan carried so much water for this franchise last year it was ridiculous.

He got the blame for the way the season wound down when his D couldn't stop the run against anyone, but if I'd done the man's work he had done I'd have apologized to no one.

And we can see this year, with "better" personnel, just how good a job was done last year. Nolan leaving helped me realize that Josh wasn't learning anything, he was just closing his fist tighter around the scrotum of this ballclub.

And now we're all feeling the pinch.

~G

Dzone
12-01-2010, 12:51 AM
The whole mess is going to make a whale of a book. It could be a movie. Its surreal that this is happening to the Broncos...the local talk shows are almost totally devoted to this..wonder how well Mcdaniels can lead during this mess...He has been chastised and admonished in front of the world...getting on top of the chiefs and staying there would feel great, just hope we dont get routed. KC looks to be pretty damn talented...Cassel is showing he can play. I heard one talk show saying that Mcd is a bully. A bonafide BULLY. You must be kidding me?

As for the questionable off season moves that have now gotten national discussion...I often see Ray Maluuga on the Bengals and wonder if that might have been a mistake to pass on him for Ayers...Ayers has shown some promise when he is not out with an injury. Fans are definitely more knowledgeable and sophisticated than ever before, so probably more adamantly opinionated. Anyway, the part about the Hillis blunder was beyond just what Hillis does on the field, its the way he does it and the intangibles. How much Hilllis was loved by Bronco fans, just seems to be so defiant and obstinant of mcdaniels to just get rid of him the way he did, like he had no value. Kind of a slap in the face of the fans. If that rumor is true about his wife, wow...that just seems totally bizarre..but with this developing story, is anything a surprise? Why should a guy getting traded away for hitting on the coaches wife by mistake be any more strange than some of these other things? What next? LOL
This is like a dream.

Lancane
12-01-2010, 12:58 AM
*Traded a franchise quality quarterback in Jay Cutler, in trying to replace him we've wasted more then five picks, traded three players to end up with four individual quarterbacks - Orton, Brandstater, Quinn and Tebow. (Could have been five or so defensive players and we would still have had Cutler and Hillis).

*Traded a gamebreaking wideout in Brandon Marshall, who is considered one of, if not the best young receivers in the league. We've lost the ability he added to the offense, and have had used a first round pick that could have netted a top defensive player, to try and replace him with a clone, that so far looks to be injury prone.

Those two trades, to me are the pinnacle F' ups that show the ineptitude of Josh McDaniels and the current regime. We've wasted a ton of picks to replace players that did not need to be replaced, accept out of some misguided, misplaced egotistical philosophy which has thus far been bullshit.

G_Money
12-01-2010, 01:00 AM
It's all too convenient to credit the winning to Nolan and pass of the losing on McD. The "Nolan might be 6-5" argument is just wild speculation. He shares equal responsibility for the 2-8 meltdown last year as far as I'm concerned. The run defense was getting gouged on his watch too.

Broncos 2008 Defense: 29th in yards, 30th in points
Broncos 2009 Defense: 7th in yards, 12th in points
Broncos 2010 Defense: 27th in yards, 32nd in points

Dolphins 2009 Defense: 22nd in yards, 25th in points
Dolphins 2010 Defense: 6th in yards, 10th in points

Funny how you can tell which ones were Nolan's. :beer: Last year was far from perfect, but compared to what's come before and after the man looks like a genius.

If we had the Dolphins' D instead of ours this year, I'd consider giving us a winning record, yeah.

~G

dogfish
12-01-2010, 02:14 AM
damn, G-- that one's gonna leave a mark!


:heh:

jhildebrand
12-01-2010, 02:22 AM
It's all too convenient to credit the winning to Nolan and pass of the losing on McD. The "Nolan might be 6-5" argument is just wild speculation. He shares equal responsibility for the 2-8 meltdown last year as far as I'm concerned. The run defense was getting gouged on his watch too.

Well when a D holds opponents without a first down in the second half of games so the offense can get something in the way of points, its hard not to credit the D.

As for the D being partially to blame for 2-8, sure they get some but I wouldn't say anything near the majority. Nolan adjusted his D per McD's wish. McD thanked him by giving him a couple of short fields against the Colts in the shadow of their own endzone. Nolan got him turnovers and McD thanked him with nothing! McD's biggest gift was placing the D on the field for 22 of 30 minutes in the second half of almost three games!

As for being 6-5 this year being speculation. Sure is! But it isn't hard to envision more wins this season if we had last year's D.

jhildebrand
12-01-2010, 02:23 AM
Broncos 2009 Defense: 7th in yards, 12th in points
Broncos 2010 Defense: 27th in yards, 32nd in points

Dolphins 2009 Defense: 22nd in yards, 25th in points
Dolphins 2010 Defense: 6th in yards, 10th in points


WARHORSE are you seeing this ^^^? :confused:

Just let me know when you are ready for your sig :D

TimBuff10
12-01-2010, 03:15 AM
Is it trading Jay Cutler? Brandon Marshall? Peyton Hillis? Tony Scheffler?
Is it getting rid of Mike Nolan? Getting rid of zone blocking?
Or is it the draft picks? (Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn and all the offensive players he has brought in when we should have focused more on defense)

And here is a funny well done video I found on youtube showing all his bonehead moves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt2_C9wLNjU

Forgot the name of our Punter that we started out with last year but we were 6-0 with him. He had a bad game at SD on that Monday night and Mc3-8 cut him the next day to set an example. Next week was at Baltimore and the wheels fell off and have been lost ever since.

Maybe that guy was just lucky!!!??

Tned
12-01-2010, 08:39 AM
Broncos 2008 Defense: 29th in yards, 30th in points
Broncos 2009 Defense: 7th in yards, 12th in points
Broncos 2010 Defense: 27th in yards, 32nd in points

Dolphins 2009 Defense: 22nd in yards, 25th in points
Dolphins 2010 Defense: 6th in yards, 10th in points

Funny how you can tell which ones were Nolan's. :beer: Last year was far from perfect, but compared to what's come before and after the man looks like a genius.

If we had the Dolphins' D instead of ours this year, I'd consider giving us a winning record, yeah.

~G

Yep, seeing it in black and white, I now see why North jumped off the McDaniels bandwagon the day he sent Nolan to Miami.

Ironically, 6 months ago, there would probably have been a LOT of people that would have responded, "McDaniels didn't send Nolan to Miami, Nolan (change Nolan to Cutler, Marshall, Scheff if you want) WANTED to leave, and we don't want or need people that don't WANT to be in Denver....", but now we'll be lucky if there are a few weak hearted responses of this type.

Dzone
12-01-2010, 09:10 AM
This cant be happening to our team...somebody wake me ...Im having a bad dream..I dreamed a young con man took over the Broncos and ran the franchise into the ground...even benching and firing a top player for accidentally flirting with his wife...tell me this isnt happening

broncofaninfla
12-01-2010, 09:29 AM
My answer would be every mistake mentioned in this thread with the exclimation being not using Hillis then literally paying the Browns to take him. I'll add another mistake was Mcd trying to make this team an extension of the Patriots instead of tailoring schemes and systems to the talent he already had on board. His ignorance and stubborness resulted in monumental failure. Xanders shares equally in the blame as well.

Tned
12-01-2010, 11:57 AM
Thinking about this overnight, I think the biggest mistake was being infatuated with the idea of getting "his" guy, Cassell, whch started the dominoes falling that led to so many downstream events.

TXBRONC
12-01-2010, 12:02 PM
Yep, seeing it in black and white, I now see why North jumped off the McDaniels bandwagon the day he sent Nolan to Miami.

Ironically, 6 months ago, there would probably have been a LOT of people that would have responded, "McDaniels didn't send Nolan to Miami, Nolan (change Nolan to Cutler, Marshall, Scheff if you want) WANTED to leave, and we don't want or need people that don't WANT to be in Denver....", but now we'll be lucky if there are a few weak hearted responses of this type.

Just for you. Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Nolan didn't want to be here so to hell with them, we don't need them. :cool:

Ravage!!!
12-01-2010, 12:03 PM
Thinking about this overnight, I think the biggest mistake was being infatuated with the idea of getting "his" guy, Cassell, whch started the dominoes falling that led to so many downstream events.

Couldn't agree with you more. However, it was the inability to deal with people, that resulted in the rest of the downfall. This is becoming more and more evident by the day.

LordTrychon
12-01-2010, 12:11 PM
Just for you. Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Nolan didn't want to be here so to hell with them, we don't them. :cool:

And Hillis.

TXBRONC
12-01-2010, 12:15 PM
And Hillis.

I thought Hillis was moved because he's about as smart as rock not because he didn't want to be here.

Krugan
12-01-2010, 12:28 PM
I thought Hillis was moved because he's about as smart as rock not because he didn't want to be here.

Do you have to be smarter than a rock to run over people?

Hehe, guess not!

LordTrychon
12-01-2010, 12:34 PM
I thought Hillis was moved because he's about as smart as rock not because he didn't want to be here.

He wasn't smart enough to want to stay.

Tned
12-01-2010, 12:36 PM
Couldn't agree with you more. However, it was the inability to deal with people, that resulted in the rest of the downfall. This is becoming more and more evident by the day.

Areed.

Ravage!!!
12-01-2010, 12:37 PM
He wasn't smart enough to want to stay.

:lol: :lol:

it think he showed just how smart he was!!

BigDaddyBronco
12-01-2010, 01:06 PM
My answer would be every mistake mentioned in this thread with the exclimation being not using Hillis then literally paying the Browns to take him. I'll add another mistake was Mcd trying to make this team an extension of the Patriots instead of tailoring schemes and systems to the talent he already had on board. His ignorance and stubborness resulted in monumental failure. Xanders shares equally in the blame as well.

I still think a chunk of his "actions" involving Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, etc. were an extension of the "Patriot way" where the model was to cut anyone who complained or made too much money (other than Brady of course) and replace them with draft picks or cheap free agents.

Not that I agree with this, but I can see this type of thinking with Cutler and Marshall. Scheffler didn't make much, but maybe wasn't a perfect fit for his system. Hillis as well. I agree with everyone else that a coach should be able to bend the system to use the talent he has, but it is hard to argue with the Patriots system from a salary cap perspective vs. number of wins. Maybe that was the philosophy that he sold Bowlen on.

I like aspects of this philosophy. Dump an expensive and risky Marshall and replace with more options, maybe do something similar with Champ. To me having a bunch of good interchangeable parts with a couple of stars might work out better in the long term than 5 or 6 stars and a bunch of 3rd rate players.

The problem is that McD is not Bellichick when it comes to coaching or personnel decisions and the "Patriot way" looks stupid if you draft a bunch of flubs. Can he get better and learn. Maybe. Maybe not. Will getting an experienced personnel type GM help? Probably, but might never happen.

BORDERLINE
12-01-2010, 02:35 PM
Drafting Knowson Moreno when you had Hillis in the backfield
Drafting Richard Quinn WTF
Trading a top 15 pick to draft Alphonso Smith in the 2nd round
Letting Nolan go to Miami
singing Jarvis Green(din't even play and gave him like 1.5 million)
trading Hillis for a 3rd string QB

Dzone
12-01-2010, 02:59 PM
Couldn't agree with you more. However, it was the inability to deal with people, that resulted in the rest of the downfall. This is becoming more and more evident by the day.

indeed...ZERO people skills and a reputation for being a bully...how can anybody like Mcdaniels when you hear about the way he has treated people. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT. PERIOD.

BigDaddyBronco
12-01-2010, 03:08 PM
indeed...ZERO people skills and a reputation for being a bully...how can anybody like Mcdaniels when you hear about the way he has treated people. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT. PERIOD.
How many NFL coaches aren't mean or bullies? Dick Vermeil and Tony Dungy come to mind. Tom Cable beat up an assistant coach, Bellichick is an a*hole, Rex Ryan chews on his players, Shanny bullied that idiot Haynesworth this season. It's a personality type that is prevalent in the NFL.

Now does McDaniels deserve to be a bully due to his experience level, probably not, but let's not kid ourselves and think that he is unique in the NFL for having this personality type.

OrangeHorizon
12-01-2010, 03:35 PM
2008: Rank 12 116.4 Yrds/G (Last year with Mike Shanahan and 7 or 8 running backs played on IR)
2009: Rank 18 114.8 Yrds/G (First year with McDummy and last year of zone blocking)
2010: Rank 30 79.4 Yrds/G (First year after switching running scheme to power blocking)

I Eat Staples
12-01-2010, 03:54 PM
If you guys log onto nfl.com, and go to player stats, you may notice that both Matt Cassell and Kyle Orton are outperforming Jay Cutler. For the second year in a row. You will also find that Brandon Lloyd is outperforming Brandon Marshall by a considerable margin. You have to be blindly biased to consider either of those deals "bad". That doesn't even take into consideration the change in attitude the new players bring, or two extra first and two extra second round draft picks.

Please justify your reasoning for thinking that we needed to make those changes instead of major changes to our defense.

I Eat Staples
12-01-2010, 03:55 PM
How many NFL coaches aren't mean or bullies? Dick Vermeil and Tony Dungy come to mind. Tom Cable beat up an assistant coach, Bellichick is an a*hole, Rex Ryan chews on his players, Shanny bullied that idiot Haynesworth this season. It's a personality type that is prevalent in the NFL.

Now does McDaniels deserve to be a bully due to his experience level, probably not, but let's not kid ourselves and think that he is unique in the NFL for having this personality type.

With the exception of Cable, all of the names you mentioned were successful coaches. McDaniels never was and never will be.

KCL
12-01-2010, 04:33 PM
Thinking about this overnight, I think the biggest mistake was being infatuated with the idea of getting "his" guy, Cassell, whch started the dominoes falling that led to so many downstream events.
I guess so and he didn't even end up getting him...still wonder how all that unfolded with that and Cassel ending up in KC.

KCL
12-01-2010, 04:36 PM
How many NFL coaches aren't mean or bullies? Dick Vermeil and Tony Dungy come to mind. Tom Cable beat up an assistant coach, Bellichick is an a*hole, Rex Ryan chews on his players, Shanny bullied that idiot Haynesworth this season. It's a personality type that is prevalent in the NFL.

Now does McDaniels deserve to be a bully due to his experience level, probably not, but let's not kid ourselves and think that he is unique in the NFL for having this personality type.

Vermeil..are you kidding? He bullied Larry Johnson into taking the diapers off.

WTE
12-01-2010, 04:57 PM
How many NFL coaches aren't mean or bullies? Dick Vermeil and Tony Dungy come to mind. Tom Cable beat up an assistant coach, Bellichick is an a*hole, Rex Ryan chews on his players, Shanny bullied that idiot Haynesworth this season. It's a personality type that is prevalent in the NFL.

Now does McDaniels deserve to be a bully due to his experience level, probably not, but let's not kid ourselves and think that he is unique in the NFL for having this personality type.

I like head coaches that look like mean bullies. Guys like Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy, Jon Gruden, Tom Coughlin, Holmgren. They got the HC look.

I wouldn't want someone wimpy looking who doesn't look like a HC - Norv Turner, Tony Dungy and Little Josh.

BTW, add Herm Edwards to your list of coaches who aren't mean or bullies.

BCJ
12-01-2010, 05:15 PM
Is it trading Jay Cutler? Brandon Marshall? Peyton Hillis? Tony Scheffler?
Is it getting rid of Mike Nolan? Getting rid of zone blocking?
Or is it the draft picks? (Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn and all the offensive players he has brought in when we should have focused more on defense)

And here is a funny well done video I found on youtube showing all his bonehead moves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt2_C9wLNjU

If this shit keeps up, it could be himself showing up at Dove Canyon in 2010 during the offseason instead of turning in his resignation.

arapaho2
12-01-2010, 05:24 PM
is it trading jay cutler? Brandon marshall? Peyton hillis? Tony scheffler?
Is it getting rid of mike nolan? Getting rid of zone blocking?
Or is it the draft picks? (alphonso smith and richard quinn and all the offensive players he has brought in when we should have focused more on defense)

and here is a funny well done video i found on youtube showing all his bonehead moves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt2_c9wlnju


id say it was agreeing to become coach of the denver broncos