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View Full Version : Surprised this hasn't been examined more re: Spygate II



scott.475
11-29-2010, 07:45 PM
First, we have Todd Haley telling McD that "people are talking about him"

Then, today Peter King wrote:
"Videotaping a walk-through, usually, would be a far more educational piece of tape for a coach to watch than viewing the defensive signals and matching them to individual plays, which is what got Belichick in trouble in 2007. I say usually because the 49ers didn't show anything worth seeing in their walk-through the day before playing Denver in London, when the videotaping was done by Scarnecchia. "We purposely didn't show them anything, because we'd been warned about [Scarnecchia],'' said a source close to the 49ers coaching staff. "We didn't run any of the plays we were going to run in the game.''

So, the 9ers knew ahead of time to be careful around our video staff! I now have no doubt other teams all year have had their concerns about us as well. "People are talking about you?" What else could it have been in reference to? It really fits now.

Just something that has been eating at me all day. I think Josh is as crooked as his old boss now.

Dzone
11-29-2010, 07:48 PM
Yep, I think more will be revealed over time. Thats why Mcdaniels needed to be fired TODAY!

Buff
11-29-2010, 07:50 PM
When he said "people are talking about you," I assumed he was referring to guys like Pioli, Crennel and Weis, who were all coworkers of McD in New England but now work for Kansas City. Like, "You think these guys are your friends, well they're pissed at you too."

I guess the only person who really knows is Haley.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-29-2010, 08:02 PM
Here is the link for the Peter King article - much more in the article than what has been posted so far, such as the following by King:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/11/28/week-12-monday-morning-qb/index.html


I find all of this sad. I know McDaniels fairly well, and my gut feeling is he neither watched the videotape nor ordered the taping. He's a smart kid with a very strong family background who's made some terrible personnel decisions; Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn, trading a 2010 first-rounder to choose Alphonso Smith in 2009 -- and then dealing him for next-to-nothing a year later. But he's a smart offensive strategist. The Broncos did him no favors by giving him an inexperienced GM, Brian Xanders, who clearly hasn't been strong enough to save him from making some bad personnel calls. The team should have invested in a savvy, veteran GM to help McDaniels navigate his way early.


But in the end, it'll be sad because half of Broncos Nation decided when Jay Cutler got traded and later when Brandon Marshall started acting 11 that it was all McDaniels' fault, and he had to go. It was not all his fault. Cutler never gave McDaniels a fair chance to build a relationship, and then an angry owner, Pat Bowlen -- not McDaniels -- directed that he be traded. Marshall wanted a new contract, thought he had been promised it by Bowlen, didn't get it, and then acted up. I don't see how either of those departures constitutes being run off by McDaniels, but legions of Bronco fans do. If he goes, Denver will have to start over with another coach, and that coach may well have no belief in Tim Tebow as a quarterback of the future, and there would go another prime piece, wasted. And so it goes.

Mike
11-29-2010, 08:06 PM
From Michael Silver at Yahoo Sports....


I talked to several other NFL head coaches, and numerous front-office executives, over the past few days, and the number of them who believe that McDaniels neither ordered the filming nor viewed it is the same as John Blutarsky’s grade-point-average in “Animal House”: 0.0.


Smooth move, Josh, and guess what – someone blabbed to Glazer, potential consequences be damned. You’ll be happy to know that I, too, talked to someone in the organization Sunday night who said, “If he treated people right, everybody’d just keep their mouths shut. But when you treat people like a piece of [expletive], this is what happens.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AmWj1ke0EhDceAeRjZe_gd5DubYF?slug=ms-morningrush112910

turftoad
11-29-2010, 08:13 PM
^^^^^ this is what I believe and so does most of the nation and evedently, most of the league.

Buff
11-29-2010, 08:22 PM
That Silver piece is pretty damning.

On the other hand, the anonymous locker room sources are kind of chicken shit too.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-29-2010, 08:40 PM
One reason why it took nearly three weeks for the Broncos to fire video director Steve Scarnecchia is the NFL wanted him around to interrogate.


And after interviewing Scarnecchia, the NFL decided Broncos coach Josh McDaniels was not involved in the illicit taping scheme other than he failed to report it.


Clearly, Scarnecchia’s testimony incriminated himself but cleared McDaniels.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/11/27/scarnecchia-told-nfl-he-acted-alone/5977/

So many different opinions on this, but if this is correct, WHY would Scarnecchia take the rap, fully knowing what the consequences would be?

Northman
11-29-2010, 09:05 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/11/27/scarnecchia-told-nfl-he-acted-alone/5977/

So many different opinions on this, but if this is correct, WHY would Scarnecchia take the rap, fully knowing what the consequences would be?

Because he's friends with McD?

Krugan
11-29-2010, 09:06 PM
Someone got a big fat **** check.

There is my guess, but im slowly drifting to the I cant do anything about it and just dont have the time to invest into this mess boat.

scott.475
11-29-2010, 09:08 PM
On the other hand, the anonymous locker room sources are kind of chicken shit too.

Why do you say that? I am not calling you out or saying you are dumb or anything, so don't take it that way. From my view, if I felt I was at risk for getting fired, demoted, traded, or some other way punished for bringing up a legitimate rule violation I think I would prefer to stay anonymous as well. Legitimate whistleblowers should be able to do it without fear of recrimination.

scott.475
11-29-2010, 09:14 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/11/27/scarnecchia-told-nfl-he-acted-alone/5977/

So many different opinions on this, but if this is correct, WHY would Scarnecchia take the rap, fully knowing what the consequences would be?

I have no clue, the whole thing blows my mind. There is no way this is as sterile as the league has said, but isn't a big federal case either. Why, in heaven's name, would Josh have not reported it when he has been through the same darn thing with another team and knew what the outcome was? I have to at least believe there was a "You keep your mouth shut and I'll keep my mouth shut. Delete the recording and this never happened". There is NO WAY Josh could have legitimately thought this was just another little inconvenience in his day, shrugged his shoulders and said "Oh, no big deal. Just delete it", not with his past experience with taping.

Buff
11-29-2010, 09:19 PM
Why do you say that? I am not calling you out or saying you are dumb or anything, so don't take it that way. From my view, if I felt I was at risk for getting fired, demoted, traded, or some other way punished for bringing up a legitimate rule violation I think I would prefer to stay anonymous as well. Legitimate whistleblowers should be able to do it without fear of recrimination.

I'm not necessarily referring to the video incident - there ought to be some protection available to someone who has concerns about rules violations.

I'm more referring to the guys who anonymously call someone an ******* in the press. I think if you've got a problem with a guy, you owe it to him to hash it out with one another as opposed to hanging them out to dry in the press. Obviously if you don't respect your boss then you don't mind hanging him out to dry, which is why the Silver piece is so revealing, but I still think it's kind of a cowardly way to go about it.

TXBRONC
11-29-2010, 09:21 PM
Because he's friends with McD?

Whose is going to believe him anyway even if he came publically and said McDaniels ordered him to do it. ( I have strange feeling that "A Few Good Men" moment is about to take place.) It would be his word against McDaniels with nothing concrete to support that kind of claim.

nevcraw
11-29-2010, 09:22 PM
I have no clue, the whole thing blows my mind. There is no way this is as sterile as the league has said, but isn't a big federal case either. Why, in heaven's name, would Josh have not reported it when he has been through the same darn thing with another team and knew what the outcome was? I have to at least believe there was a "You keep your mouth shut and I'll keep my mouth shut. Delete the recording and this never happened". There is NO WAY Josh could have legitimately thought this was just another little inconvenience in his day, shrugged his shoulders and said "Oh, no big deal. Just delete it", not with his past experience with taping.

this is why it's not going away.. people smell the BS and that stink makes them hungry for blood.
yes I said shit stink makes people hungry.. for blood.. you heard it here first.

TXBRONC
11-29-2010, 09:25 PM
Someone got a big fat **** check.

Man I need to go see my optomitrist because when I glanced at this sentence I would have swore it said "Someone got a big fat chick." :shocked:

scott.475
11-29-2010, 09:31 PM
I'm not necessarily referring to the video incident - there ought to be some protection available to someone who has concerns about rules violations.

I'm more referring to the guys who anonymously call someone an ******* in the press. I think if you've got a problem with a guy, you owe it to him to hash it out with one another as opposed to hanging them out to dry in the press. Obviously if you don't respect your boss then you don't mind hanging him out to dry, which is why the Silver piece is so revealing, but I still think it's kind of a cowardly way to go about it.

Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying.

Bosco
11-29-2010, 09:48 PM
Of all the rumors and innuendo, the only thing that matters and is truly verifiable is the official NFL report in which the league said that except for the delay in informing them, we were the model for how an organization should handle these issues.

Let the drama whores like Glazier and his anonymous sources say what they want. All we have to do is point to that report.

Broncos Mtnman
11-29-2010, 10:10 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/11/27/scarnecchia-told-nfl-he-acted-alone/5977/

So many different opinions on this, but if this is correct, WHY would Scarnecchia take the rap, fully knowing what the consequences would be?

Don't be naive.

He wouldn't be the first "nobody" to have to take the heat for doing something he was instructed to do, but was too dumb not to get caught.

The NFL is big business, and I don't think that Goodell, Bowlen or Mickey would let something like this bring them down. With the right amount of payola, Scarnecchia takes the heat and the NFL looks like they "did the right thing."

In case you were unaware, Congress investigated the first Spygate incident because the integrity of the game needed to be preserved.

Don't think for a minute that Goodell would do anything necessary to keep that from happening again.

Including buying off a nobody.

:coffee:

Buff
11-29-2010, 10:12 PM
Don't be naive.

He wouldn't be the first "nobody" to have to take the heat for doing something he was instructed to do, but was too dumb not to get caught.

The NFL is big business, and I don't think that Goodell, Bowlen or Mickey would let something like this bring them down. With the right amount of payola, Scarnecchia takes the heat and the NFL looks like they "did the right thing."

In case you were unaware, Congress investigated the first Spygate incident because the integrity of the game needed to be preserved.

Don't think for a minute that Goodell would do anything necessary to keep that from happening again.

Including buying off a nobody.

:coffee:

I would stay focused on the black helicopters circling your house if I were you.

scott.475
11-29-2010, 10:14 PM
we were the model for how an organization should handle these issues.

Oh, I believe the Bronco's ownership and management were a model...right after they found out their coach tried covering up what happened.

Bosco
11-29-2010, 10:49 PM
Oh, I believe the Bronco's ownership and management were a model...right after they found out their coach tried covering up what happened.

The official NFL report doesn't say that and specifically absolves McDaniels of any attempted cover ups.

scott.475
11-29-2010, 10:53 PM
The official NFL report doesn't say that and specifically absolves McDaniels of any attempted cover ups.

I understand that, because a head coach who has been through the exact same thing before, and who's team lost a draft pick because of it, telling a guy to erase the tape and then not saying anything to anybody it, as required by rules, isn't a cover up.

Northman
11-29-2010, 10:53 PM
The official NFL report doesn't say that and specifically absolves McDaniels of any attempted cover ups.

Uh, no it doesnt. McD wasnt the one to report it too Bowlen and Ellis. A 3rd party did. The fact that McD got fined for it verifies that. Just because Bowlen and Ellis believe that McD "forgot" to report it does not mean he didnt try to cover it up. There's more to suggest that he did.

BeefStew25
11-29-2010, 10:56 PM
I would stay focused on the black helicopters circling your house if I were you.

Payoffs happen every year in the league, Buffalo. Cash a check and go away. Standard.

Broncolingus
11-29-2010, 10:56 PM
I think McD was secretly video taping Tebow in the shower and this whole 69ers...err, 49ers thing is a cover up of THAT whole thing...

http://view.picapp.com/pictures.photo/image/9629000/broncos-host-steelers-nfl/broncos-host-steelers-nfl.jpg?size=380&imageId=9629000

Bosco
11-29-2010, 11:02 PM
Uh, no it doesnt. McD wasnt the one to report it too Bowlen and Ellis. A 3rd party did. The fact that McD got fined for it verifies that. Just because Bowlen and Ellis believe that McD "forgot" to report it does not mean he didnt try to cover it up. There's more to suggest that he did.

You're right, he failed to report it and he's $50,000 lighter in the wallet for it. That's a pretty big step away from an active cover up by either him or the team, which the NFL stated was impossible and did not happen.

Northman
11-29-2010, 11:13 PM
You're right, he failed to report it and he's $50,000 lighter in the wallet for it. That's a pretty big step away from an active cover up by either him or the team, which the NFL stated was impossible and did not happen.

No its not? What are you smoking? At the end of the day someone ratted him out and had they not he wouldnt of come forward. What part of that do you not understand? :lol:

WTE
11-29-2010, 11:13 PM
Cheaters Never Win

and

Winners Never Cheat

Bosco
11-29-2010, 11:18 PM
No its not? What are you smoking? At the end of the day someone ratted him out and had they not he wouldnt of come forward. What part of that do you not understand? :lol:

I'm not sure what you're contention is. There is no debate that McDaniels broke the rules by not reporting it, which is why he was fined. Are you having trouble separating inaction from an active attempt at concealing unethical behavior? I can only assume that you are taking them for being one in the same, otherwise this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

Northman
11-29-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm not sure what you're contention is. There is no debate that McDaniels broke the rules by not reporting it, which is why he was fined. Are you having trouble separating inaction from an active attempt at concealing unethical behavior? I can only assume that you are taking them for being one in the same, otherwise this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

He knows it was against policy and failed to report it. So yes, he tried to sweep it under the rug which is "concealing" it.

Bosco
11-29-2010, 11:32 PM
He knows it was against policy and failed to report it. So yes, he tried to sweep it under the rug which is "concealing" it.

It was against policy, hence the fine, but sweeping it under the rug would mean that he made an attempt to hide the situation. He did not do that. What he did would better be described as "ignore it and hope it goes away".

What you're suggesting would be like saying that the guy who doesn't turn in his drug dealer neighbor is as bad of a person as the other neighbor who lets the guy hide drugs in his backyard. Neither one is in the right but the later is obviously a much greater offense.

Northman
11-29-2010, 11:55 PM
It was against policy, hence the fine, but sweeping it under the rug would mean that he made an attempt to hide the situation. He did not do that. What he did would better be described as "ignore it and hope it goes away".



Got news for you champ, when you "knowingly" try to hide and sweep something under the rug that you know is "wrong" that is concealing it. Try and spin it all you want your not going to change my mind on this. Keep on living in that fantasy world mate. :beer:

Bosco
11-30-2010, 12:14 AM
Got news for you champ, when you "knowingly" try to hide and sweep something under the rug that you know is "wrong" that is concealing it. Try and spin it all you want your not going to change my mind on this. Keep on living in that fantasy world mate. :beer:
No need to change your mind. Your opinion is ultimately irrelevant and in direct conflict with the league's own finding. I can't and don't care to stop you from holding Josh to your own moral compass, but it's not the one he will ultimately be judged by.

I know the difference between not reporting something and actively covering it up and the league found Josh only guilty of the former, so I am satisfied and so is the rest of the NFL and Denver Broncos organizations by all accounts.

Northman
11-30-2010, 12:15 AM
No need to change your mind. Your opinion is ultimately irrelevant and in direct conflict with the league's own finding. I can't and don't care to stop you from holding Josh to your own moral compass, but it's not the one he will ultimately be judged by.

Got that right, he's doing a great job of looking pathetic on his own. It wont be long before he's out the door.

Cugel
11-30-2010, 02:10 AM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/11/27/scarnecchia-told-nfl-he-acted-alone/5977/

So many different opinions on this, but if this is correct, WHY would Scarnecchia take the rap, fully knowing what the consequences would be?

"Tell them to plead the fifth, do anything, just save the plan." Richard M. Nixon, 1973. :coffee:

That was their plan from the beginning -- obviously they agreed in advance that "if any of your impossible mission force should be caught or killed the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions."

McDaniels made it clear to Scarnecchia before they ever began that if word ever got out he had to fall on his own sword and take the rap and protect McDaniels. That was the gig and when it all blew up, Scarnecchia knew what he had to do. :coffee:

Then the league comes in and basically takes them into separate rooms and questions them and their stories match up -- so the league is satisfied. Unlike Watergate, the cover-up worked. The "White House plumber" goes to jail and the "chief executive" gets off Scot free.

So far. But, this story is just getting started. When the wheels start falling off the bus, more and more stories are going to start to come out.

I seriously doubt that McDaniels has only ONE leaker at this point. Probably his entire staff is polishing their resumes and looking around for a life-boat to get into right about now. And they know McDaniels is raging around trying to find them and throw them under the bus to save himself. (Hence the word from Pat Bowlen in his interview that some assistant coaches may need to be fired).

Not a lot of loyalty in Dove Valley right now.

Ravage!!!
11-30-2010, 02:18 AM
It was against policy, hence the fine, but sweeping it under the rug would mean that he made an attempt to hide the situation. He did not do that. What he did would better be described as "ignore it and hope it goes away".

.

I believe he told the video taper to delete the footage, did he not?

He tried to sweep it under the rug. Lying by intentional omission is still lying, despite the fine lines that can be argued. McDaniels tried to sweep it under the rug, and hide, the misdoing by doing nothing. Lying by omission, so to speak.

I know I know. Its hard for you to see that he ever does anything wrong. But its time to start opening your eyes instead of choosing to shade them from the truth.

Cugel
11-30-2010, 02:21 AM
A shorter way to sum up the coaching staff in Dove Valley right now:

"I can see him now, as he walked in his garden, hands behind his back, his head bowed as though in prayer. 'Oh, Lord protect me from all those who, while on their knees, hide the knife they would love to plunge into my back.' But how can God help? All of the emperor's people are like that -- on their knees and with knives.

It's never easy on the summit of power. An icy wind always blows and everybody crouches, fearful lest his neighbor hurl him down the precipice."

-- Ryzard Kapuchinsky, The Emperor

Cugel
11-30-2010, 02:31 AM
I know the difference between not reporting something and actively covering it up and the league found Josh only guilty of the former, so I am satisfied and so is the rest of the NFL and Denver Broncos organizations by all accounts.

"Not reporting something" when you have a duty to report it is the very definition of a cover-up.

But, don't take my word for it. The rats are deserting this sinking ship and you can bet there will be more "leaks" to the media before this is through.

The league is hoping there's nothing more to the story because it undermines league integrity to think the Broncos head coach engaged in systematic cheating and pre-arranged with his employee to lie and cover it all up if he was ever caught. So they levy the fine quickly and try and forget it.

But, nobody in the NFL right now believes McDaniels is telling the truth. Why did he hire this guy with his history of bad conduct if he didn't want to cheat?

And the national news media is not done with this story. Not by a LONG shot. Just wait. A lot more "leaks" will come out slowly over the next month or so from "sources in the Broncos organization." And in the end it will be obvious (if it isn't now) that McDaniels was lying and covering up furiously from the very beginning.

This is a football equivalent of Watergate. Slow death by a thousand leaks.

arapaho2
11-30-2010, 02:12 PM
No need to change your mind. Your opinion is ultimately irrelevant and in direct conflict with the league's own finding. I can't and don't care to stop you from holding Josh to your own moral compass, but it's not the one he will ultimately be judged by.

I know the difference between not reporting something and actively covering it up and the league found Josh only guilty of the former, so I am satisfied and so is the rest of the NFL and Denver Broncos organizations by all accounts.

no...you dont

reporting this infraction is the league rule...by purposely NOT reporting it...you are attempting to cover it up

frauschieze
11-30-2010, 02:16 PM
12 weeks of Broncos games on regular channels. At least SOMETHING is going well for me and my Broncos!

EDIT: LOL! I totally posted this in the wrong thread. That's what I get for a hour and a half of sleep!

BroncoNut
11-30-2010, 02:28 PM
I have no clue, the whole thing blows my mind. There is no way this is as sterile as the league has said, but isn't a big federal case either. Why, in heaven's name, would Josh have not reported it when he has been through the same darn thing with another team and knew what the outcome was? I have to at least believe there was a "You keep your mouth shut and I'll keep my mouth shut. Delete the recording and this never happened". There is NO WAY Josh could have legitimately thought this was just another little inconvenience in his day, shrugged his shoulders and said "Oh, no big deal. Just delete it", not with his past experience with taping.

who initially leaked this info and to who in the League, that's what I want to know. I can't wait for the movie to come out.

BroncoNut
11-30-2010, 02:29 PM
12 weeks of Broncos games on regular channels. At least SOMETHING is going well for me and my Broncos!

EDIT: LOL! I totally posted this in the wrong thread. That's what I get for a hour and a half of sleep!

that's kinda funny, but I don't think LOL funny

G_Money
11-30-2010, 02:33 PM
Cheaters Never Win

and

Winners Never Cheat

You've got that wrong. Uncle Eddie says different:

http://cdn3.ioffer.com/img/wantad/883/013/34124221_99ace5dd88.jpg

And he wouldn't lie to me because:

http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/pictures/c/chavoguerrero/07.jpg

Josh is just an Eddie Guerrero fan. I can't blame him for that...

~G