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Ziggy
08-24-2008, 07:54 PM
It should be announced this week. Anyone else worried about the MLB position regardless of which player is named a starter for the Broncos? I'm going to go with Koutouvidies, but it's just a guess. Neither look to be the man we were hoping for. I hope whoever starts improves loads as the season progresses.

BeefStew25
08-24-2008, 07:56 PM
How is Al Wilson feeling?

yardog
08-24-2008, 07:57 PM
Done.

MOtorboat
08-24-2008, 07:59 PM
Niko.

BeefStew25
08-24-2008, 08:01 PM
What about Terry Pierce?

Ziggy
08-24-2008, 08:06 PM
How is Al Wilson feeling?

Like he slept wrong and has a crick in his neck?

frauschieze
08-24-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm not happy with either to be honest. Kinda like how I feel about the presidential race. ;)

I think it may be Webster at this point.....

BeefStew25
08-24-2008, 08:08 PM
If I had a gun to my head, I like Webster more, but only because I want to see him make a tackle without his helmet on.

NameUsedBefore
08-24-2008, 08:11 PM
Nate Webster.

yardog
08-24-2008, 08:11 PM
I say lets go with Beck.

G_Money
08-24-2008, 08:25 PM
I don't like either as an impact MLB, but it's got to be Webster. Nate plays fast and with emotion, even though he misses tackles and gaps and comes with "Exploding Helmet Release Action."

Niko is reading his gap responsibilities poorly and responding a step slow. He's DJ from the first half of last year without the incredible athletic skill. I think he's a better tackler than Webster (not hard), but if you don't get to the gap in time that doesn't really help you.

I'm really, REALLY hoping Larsen can make it on the PS and then learn the pro game from the squad. Spend a year training a huge guy with good instincts and sure tackling ability how to play the pro game and then we'll see where we are.

If Larsen isn't the guy, then draft The Guy - EARLY.

If he is, then get me that frickin' safety already, because even if Barrett can hold down the one position we need another one.

I'd say some DL could help, but we can't find one with both hands, a map and a flashlight, so let's not waste any more early picks on a position we don't have a Rosetta Stone for, huh?

~G

nevcraw
08-24-2008, 09:18 PM
I am going to say Niko. Webster seems to whiff a lot!

ikillz0mbies
08-24-2008, 09:33 PM
Is it possible for Wesley Woodyard to be moved to the middle???

AlWilsonizKING
08-24-2008, 09:38 PM
How is Al Wilson feeling?

I'm fine. ;)

You all should know where I stand....ha STAND....as in BBoy Stance....in this argument.

Nate for the win please.


PEACE!!!

SmilinAssasSin27
08-24-2008, 09:42 PM
Either put DJ back inside and try Wesley w/ the starters...or go w/ Niko. At least he has the excuse that he's still getting comfortable. I'd like to see how he develops w/ more reps. Webster is who he is...and it's not all that impressive.

dogfish
08-24-2008, 09:51 PM
where's the "pray for rain" option?

MOtorboat
08-24-2008, 10:04 PM
where's the "pray for rain" option?

Pacman Jones plays for the Cowboys. And he doesn't play MLB.

topscribe
08-24-2008, 10:06 PM
If I had a gun to my head, I like Webster more, but only because I want to see him make a tackle without his helmet on.

:laugh: That was cold.

-----

Stargazer
08-25-2008, 12:43 AM
Give it to Webster please.

BroncoWave
08-25-2008, 12:44 AM
Webster. But only because seeing his helmet knocked off gives me utter joy. I like to keep count of how many times it happens.

Stargazer
08-25-2008, 12:47 AM
I like to keep count of how many times it happens.

I believe the current count is 2 so far this preseason.:D

DenBronx
08-25-2008, 01:21 AM
this is what i think.....i dont think anyone agrees though. i thought he could make an impact. not sure why he isnt signed though.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19766

dogfish
08-25-2008, 01:49 AM
this is what i think.....i dont think anyone agrees though. i thought he could make an impact. not sure why he isnt signed though.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19766


because he's older than dirt and slower than molasses. . . seriously, i think sam adams could outrun him. . . .

DenBronx
08-25-2008, 03:18 AM
because he's older than dirt and slower than molasses. . . seriously, i think sam adams could outrun him. . . .

i thought he would do well against the run though. maybe bring him in just for run d and let niko or webster play passing downs.

Superchop 7
08-25-2008, 03:58 AM
I vote for 5 down linemen and no MLB.

Dreadnought
08-25-2008, 05:57 AM
Niko, only because I can't stand watching Webster's arm tackles any more.

LRtagger
08-25-2008, 08:19 AM
Niko seems to be better in coverage. Niko started against Dallas and our pass D was pretty good. Webster started against Green Bay and they shredded us (yes, like cheese) with the pass.

CoachChaz
08-25-2008, 08:28 AM
We're pretty much screwed with either of them at this point.

HolyDiver
08-25-2008, 11:42 AM
We're pretty much screwed with either of them at this point.

Hopefully we can some how trade up next April and draft Maualuga.

GEM
08-25-2008, 11:51 AM
Better question...

Do we want the guy who is lost and can't find the play to make it

Or

Do we want the guy who can find the play but can't make a decent tackle.

Great choices....

Dreadnought
08-25-2008, 12:01 PM
Better question...

Do we want the guy who is lost and can't find the play to make it

Or

Do we want the guy who can find the play but can't make a decent tackle.

Great choices....

Thats the guy I want. Webster's feeble tackling was the same last year and will not improve. Niko can stuff a run when he gets there. and may still be teachable.

topscribe
08-25-2008, 12:23 PM
Thats the guy I want. Webster's feeble tackling was the same last year and will not improve. Niko can stuff a run when he gets there. and may still be teachable.

I'm all for getting Niko out there for playing time. That is what he is missing.
He is like a precocious rookie. He has spent the last four or five years
observing the play of the MLB and has learned a lot in that respect, but he
has had precious little chance to get out there in real game time, except for
a few preseason reps with second- and third-stringers, and experience the
real speed of the game.

To me, Niko is a good looking player. His hesitations in play are understandable.
I just think he needs a chance to have some real time to let the game slow
down for him.

Webster may be a little better at this specific time, but, as you implied, he
has peaked in his abilities. Niko still has upside ahead of him. From where I
sit (and I admit lacking a coach's knowledge), I think I would start Niko and
let him learn. Then, by mid-season, we just may have a MLB.

-----

CoachChaz
08-25-2008, 12:37 PM
Hopefully we can some how trade up next April and draft Maualuga.

I prefer Laurinitis. Maualuga is an animal, but he seems to have a recklessness about him that could backfire. I prefer the steadier of the two.

GEM
08-25-2008, 12:40 PM
To me, Niko is a good looking player. -----

Me too...he has a nice voice too. :naughty:

CoachChaz
08-25-2008, 12:42 PM
Niko looks like he could be solid...but nothing spectacular. I'd prefer him as a good backup or as an additional MLB in a 3-4.

BigDaddyBronco
08-25-2008, 12:44 PM
Niko looks like he could be solid...but nothing spectacular. I'd prefer him as a good backup or as an additional MLB in a 3-4.

I was just waiting for someone to bring up switching to a 3 - 4. :laugh:

BroncoWave
08-25-2008, 12:53 PM
Shoulda traded up for Patrick Willis last year. And you can say it's hindsight, but I'll find where I posted that on BM before last year's draft! :D

Dreadnought
08-25-2008, 12:56 PM
Niko looks like he could be solid...but nothing spectacular. I'd prefer him as a good backup or as an additional MLB in a 3-4.

He could contribute to this team in some role. Webster is another matter. I would hate like Hell to lose Larsen or Woodyard in order to keep this stiff on the roster as a one year stop-gap.

topscribe
08-25-2008, 12:57 PM
Niko looks like he could be solid...but nothing spectacular. I'd prefer him as a good backup or as an additional MLB in a 3-4.

I respect your opinion, Coach. If Niko can be solid, he doesn't have to be
another Urlacker . . . just be sure he's there, where a hole would otherwise
be. But with Boss and D.J. on either side of him, two very good players, IMO,
all he needs to do is to apply the adhesive, as it were. Does that make sense?

-----

topscribe
08-25-2008, 01:00 PM
He could contribute to this team in some role. Webster is another matter. I would hate like Hell to lose Larsen or Woodyard in order to keep this stiff on the roster as a one year stop-gap.

You never know, Dread. Ol' Shanny seems to come up with a shocker cut(s)
every year. With Woodyard and Larsen going nuts out on the field this year,
the Broncos may have only one Nate going into the regular season. Could
happen.

-----

CoachChaz
08-25-2008, 02:21 PM
I never said I wanted a 3-4...just that Niko seems like he'd be better there. He doesn't have to be an All-Pro, but if we have to face Johnson, Tomlinson and McFadden each twice a year...he'd better be a whole lot more than just a "solid" player in the middle.

Superchop 7
08-25-2008, 02:47 PM
We're pretty much screwed with either of them at this point.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Please convey all cp's to this man.

Superchop 7
08-25-2008, 02:50 PM
Why are they so bitter at Al ? (yeah, I know)

So....at the end of the day he stands his ground. (I expect nothing less)

Isn't that what the Bronco's are all about ?

Settle it, let the man play his position.

He has stood for the Broncos as much as Rod.

Please give us something to believe in Pat, that man will give his all.

And BTW, we used to be the envy of the league when it came to LB.

You guys act like children,

Just sayin.

Zweems56
08-25-2008, 03:01 PM
Why are they so bitter at Al ? (yeah, I know)

So....at the end of the day he stands his ground. (I expect nothing less)

Isn't that what the Bronco's are all about ?

Settle it, let the man play his position.

He has stood for the Broncos as much as Rod.

Please give us something to believe in Pat, that man will give his all.

And BTW, we used to be the envy of the league when it came to LB.

Just sayin.

Did I miss something? Did you just say that we should bring Al Wilson back?

I loved him as much as the next bronco fan, but if the doctors can't clear you to play, you can't play. Doesn't the fact that no other team in the nfl has signed him speak volumes? He can't pass a physical.

SmilinAssasSin27
08-25-2008, 04:28 PM
At least we improved at DT. Otherwise, this could have been even uglier.

Buff
08-25-2008, 05:23 PM
At least we improved at DT. Otherwise, this could have been even uglier.

I guess... As much as I'm glad we brought in Robertson, I'll reserve judgement until we actually get to see him in action for an extended period. As of right now, we're not a heck of alot better off than we were last year from a personnel perspective.

Also, can we stop the speculation that Webster could be cut... Denver Post is reporting him as the starter at MLB- http://twitter.com/denverbroncos/statuses/898646506

Requiem / The Dagda
08-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Brandon Spikes.

Lonestar
08-25-2008, 05:36 PM
I like Niko at least the kid can tackle..

But the DP has announced the Webster is the starter..

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10299663

It's Nate.

The Broncos' top position competition of the preseason has been settled.

Mike Shanahan, the Broncos' coach, announced Nate Webster has beaten out Niko Koutouvides for starting middle linebacker.

The decision was an upset of sorts as Webster is a nine-year veteran who was primarily a back up in Tampa Bay and Cincinnati before starting at strongside linebacker for the Broncos' last year. Koutouvides was one of the Broncos' top free-agent pick ups this offseason as he received a three-year, $7.5 million contract that included a $2 million signing bonus.

"It was a very close competition," Shanahan said. "Both guys I look at as starters. Both guys will help as special teams but it was nip and tuck."

Shanahan said Koutouvides, a standout special teams player for four years in Seattle, would play extensively in the fourth and final preseason game at Arizona to get him more familiar with Denver's defense.

"Nate's a little more comfortable in it, right now." Shanahan said.

topscribe
08-25-2008, 05:39 PM
I like Niko at least the kid can tackle..

But the DP has announced the Webster is the starter..

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10299663

It's Nate.

The Broncos' top position competition of the preseason has been settled.

Mike Shanahan, the Broncos' coach, announced Nate Webster has beaten out Niko Koutouvides for starting middle linebacker.

The decision was an upset of sorts as Webster is a nine-year veteran who was primarily a back up in Tampa Bay and Cincinnati before starting at strongside linebacker for the Broncos' last year. Koutouvides was one of the Broncos' top free-agent pick ups this offseason as he received a three-year, $7.5 million contract that included a $2 million signing bonus.

"It was a very close competition," Shanahan said. "Both guys I look at as starters. Both guys will help as special teams but it was nip and tuck."

Shanahan said Koutouvides, a standout special teams player for four years in Seattle, would play extensively in the fourth and final preseason game at Arizona to get him more familiar with Denver's defense.

"Nate's a little more comfortable in it, right now." Shanahan said.

That's a bit disappointing to me, for reasons I've already notated.

But then, I'm not a coach who has observed them every day.


However, one part of Shanny's statement confuses me a little: I have
never noticed Webster playing on ST. Either he doesn't play it, or he
doesn't seem to play it well since I've never heard his name called during
ST play . . .

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
08-25-2008, 05:41 PM
Brandon Spikes, NFL Draft 2009. Shore up that MIKE spot. 2009 Draft got 'em, get 'em while they hot.

G_Money
08-25-2008, 05:55 PM
Nate played ST before he started for us. That was his job as a backup.

Like I said, Nate knows where he's supposed to be. Kou and Larsen can't say that.

Even if he doesn't make the play because he tackles like an armless spastic, maybe he can slow the guy up. Kou just gives up the entire lane by being totally absent.

Webster is not the answer for our team when we're preparing to win championships.

But he's a better one-year answer than Niko is, unfortunately.

Thank God we look better so far in the draft than we do in FA this year.

One of these years the Broncos are gonna realize we need to replace Al Wilson's contributions from the middle via the draft...right?

~G

Lonestar
08-25-2008, 06:07 PM
That's a bit disappointing to me, for reasons I've already notated.

But then, I'm not a coach who has observed them every day.


However, one part of Shanny's statement confuses me a little: I have
never noticed Webster playing on ST. Either he doesn't play it, or he
doesn't seem to play it well since I've never heard his name called during
ST play . . .

-----

In order to have his name called HE would have to make a PLAY or Tackle..

NEXT :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Dreadnought
08-25-2008, 06:34 PM
Nate played ST before he started for us. That was his job as a backup.

Like I said, Nate knows where he's supposed to be. Kou and Larsen can't say that.

Even if he doesn't make the play because he tackles like an armless spastic, maybe he can slow the guy up. Kou just gives up the entire lane by being totally absent.

Webster is not the answer for our team when we're preparing to win championships.

But he's a better one-year answer than Niko is, unfortunately.

Thank God we look better so far in the draft than we do in FA this year.

One of these years the Broncos are gonna realize we need to replace Al Wilson's contributions from the middle via the draft...right?

~G

G - regarding Webster - How the Hell do you have a LB of all things who cannot tackle on the roster?! The guy is simply maddening. I'd rather live with blown lane assignmentsfrom a guy who might develop into a solid player than Nate Webster. I don't think we're a SB bound team just yet, and think we ought to bite the bullet and throw one of the younger guys in there. let him learn and play, and see if he's the same guy week 8 as he is in week 1.

Slick
08-25-2008, 06:37 PM
If Nature Boy wasn't suspended he'd have said Patrick Willis.

Dreadnought
08-25-2008, 06:38 PM
If Nature Boy wasn't suspended he'd have said Patrick Willis.

I think there should be a one Year embargo on all Patrick Willis talk, punishable by fines and/or imprisonment :D

Requiem / The Dagda
08-25-2008, 06:39 PM
I think there should be a one Year embargo on all Patrick Willis talk, punishable by fines and/or imprisonment :D

Patrick Willis is bomb.

frauschieze
08-25-2008, 06:39 PM
If Nature Boy wasn't suspended he'd have said Patrick Willis.

Just shut your mouth, troublemaker.

Requiem / The Dagda
08-25-2008, 06:40 PM
Just shut your mouth, troublemaker.

No, he can talk. YOU ARE BETTER SEEN AND NOT HEARD. *tapes mouth shut*

Lonestar
08-25-2008, 06:41 PM
:focus:

This thread is about can't tackle webster or I'm learning Niko..

frauschieze
08-25-2008, 06:42 PM
No, he can talk. YOU ARE BETTER SEEN AND NOT HEARD. *tapes mouth shut*

Silence is golden; duct tape is silver. :salute:

Lonestar
08-25-2008, 06:43 PM
:focus:

This thread is about can't tackle webster or I'm learning Niko..



Lets try this again..

:focus:

This thread is about can't tackle webster or I'm learning Niko..

Requiem / The Dagda
08-25-2008, 06:43 PM
I would like to see peg-leg Robertson in at MIKE. Can he get a pirate patch? That's who I want to see start this year.

Slick
08-25-2008, 06:48 PM
Just shut your mouth, troublemaker.

4 beers and nothing to eat...I was feelin' feisty.
We won't sign a cap casualty...we 'll dance with the girls we brought even though they aren't pretty. I'll say Nate starts.

turftoad
08-25-2008, 06:50 PM
I like Niko at least the kid can tackle..

But the DP has announced the Webster is the starter..

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10299663

It's Nate.

The Broncos' top position competition of the preseason has been settled.

Mike Shanahan, the Broncos' coach, announced Nate Webster has beaten out Niko Koutouvides for starting middle linebacker.

The decision was an upset of sorts as Webster is a nine-year veteran who was primarily a back up in Tampa Bay and Cincinnati before starting at strongside linebacker for the Broncos' last year. Koutouvides was one of the Broncos' top free-agent pick ups this offseason as he received a three-year, $7.5 million contract that included a $2 million signing bonus.

"It was a very close competition," Shanahan said. "Both guys I look at as starters. Both guys will help as special teams but it was nip and tuck."

Shanahan said Koutouvides, a standout special teams player for four years in Seattle, would play extensively in the fourth and final preseason game at Arizona to get him more familiar with Denver's defense.

"Nate's a little more comfortable in it, right now." Shanahan said.

Great, thats just great.

Two of our biggest off season moves, Niko and Colbert might not even play. Hell, Colbert might not even make the team.

I bet we keep an eye out on the final cuts form other teams.

Buff
08-25-2008, 06:51 PM
4 beers and nothing to eat...I was feelin' feisty.
We won't sign a cap casualty...we 'll dance with the girls we brought even though they aren't pretty. I'll say Nate starts.

Well considering the Denver Post announced that it was official a couple hours ago, you're not exactly going out on a limb there ;)

But you're right, we need to find some hotter chicks.

AlWilsonizKING
08-25-2008, 07:04 PM
You know....as I recall, a lot of people here liked Al Wilson and wanted him back, thought he was the best, D leader, etc....but yet he wasn't the best tackler either.......so why the hate for Nate? Just cause his helmet come off....IT'S THE DREADS PEOPLE...a lot of players with dreads lose thier helmet.....:rolleyes:



PEACE!!!

Buff
08-25-2008, 07:17 PM
You know....as I recall, a lot of people here liked Al Wilson and wanted him back, thought he was the best, D leader, etc....but yet he wasn't the best tackler either.......so why the hate for Nate?

His marginal play and missed tackles? :whoknows:

AlWilsonizKING
08-25-2008, 07:27 PM
His marginal play


That would seem to be a teamwide problem....not just one player.


PEACE!!!

gobroncsnv
08-25-2008, 07:27 PM
You know....as I recall, a lot of people here liked Al Wilson and wanted him back, thought he was the best, D leader, etc....but yet he wasn't the best tackler either.......so why the hate for Nate? Just cause his helmet come off....IT'S THE DREADS PEOPLE...a lot of players with dreads lose thier helmet.....:rolleyes:



PEACE!!!


AWIK, nobody disputes that Al brought a GREAT game his first several years here. I'm glad he left more for his own health, but he was a liability in his last couple of years, going for the blowup hit instead of making the stop.
I think everyone is looking for someone like Al again, but the bummer of it is, he ain't here right now, whoEVER that would be. We now have the Nate and Niko show, which reminds us more of Al's later years than his earlier ones. And even at THAT, Al at least knew how to read a play well enough to be in position to make a stop, whether or not he was able to make one. Hopefully having the Bossman back will help compensate for lack of a middle. But the feel of our LB corps right now is kinda in shambles, with good play from DJ, and occasional flashes from the rest. If I'm Shanny, I post a "help wanted" sign.

AlWilsonizKING
08-25-2008, 07:37 PM
Looks like some of you are gonna be a little upset (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8287)

:salute::cool::D



PEACE!!!

Dreadnought
08-25-2008, 07:39 PM
That would seem to be a teamwide problem....not just one player.


PEACE!!!

I'm sure not gonna argue that we are the second coming of the Orange Crush just yet, but you fix this thing one player and position at a time, and I think we're on the right track. So far (and yes its preseason) the Run defense looks almost passable overall, certainly compared to '07. I'm pissed at Nate W. because he looks like the weakest link and he misses tackles like Al Wilson did, but he is nowhere near as ferocious and disruptive as Al was. Wilson could change the course of a game with a key hit or stuff, and I see no signs of this from Webster, ever. Al had dreads, too, but thats the limit of his similarity to Webster :D

frauschieze
08-25-2008, 07:43 PM
Looks like some of you are gonna be a little upset (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8287)

:salute::cool::D



PEACE!!!


While Webster was answering questions, Marcus Thomas walked by and announced that it was actually him that makes Webster look good.

"I take up blockers let him run free," he teased.

He may be teasing, but it's the truth.

AlWilsonizKING
08-25-2008, 07:45 PM
"In 2007, Webster posted the first 100-tackle season of his career, ranking second on the club with 100 stops -- 77 of them solo. He also scored his first career touchdown on a fumble recovery, started a personal-best 13 games and appeared in all 16 contests for the first time in five seasons. And to top it off, he was playing in a relatively unfamiliar position."

Hmmmm, second in tackles....that must mean A LOT of others were missing some along the way........but Nate's helmet come off....:rolleyes:


PEACE!!!

AlWilsonizKING
08-25-2008, 07:47 PM
He may be teasing, but it's the truth.


Then why didn't it make Niko look good also......:confused:



PEACE!!!

nevcraw
08-25-2008, 07:48 PM
I'm sure not gonna argue that we are the second coming of the Orange Crush just yet, but you fix this thing one player and position at a time, and I think we're on the right track. So far (and yes its preseason) the Run defense looks almost passable overall, certainly compared to '07. I'm pissed at Nate W. because he looks like the weakest link and he misses tackles like Al Wilson did, but he is nowhere near as ferocious and disruptive as Al was. Wilson could change the course of a game with a key hit or stuff, and I see no signs of this from Webster, ever. Al had dreads, too, but thats the limit of his similarity to Webster :D

Technically Al had cornrows now dreads..

Cornrows are a traditional style of hair grooming of African origin where the hair is braided very close to the scalp, using an underhand, upward motion to produce a continuous, raised row.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornrows

Dreadlocks, also called locks or dreads, are interlocked coils of hair which form by themselves, in all hair types, if the hair is allowed to grow naturally without grooming for a long period of time. Dreadlocks are associated closely with the Rastafari movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks

frauschieze
08-25-2008, 07:49 PM
Then why didn't it make Niko look good also......:confused:



PEACE!!!

Niko needed a map. ;)

dogfish
08-25-2008, 08:23 PM
"It was a very close competition," Shanahan said. "Both guys I look at as starters.


translation: neither of them is good enough to start at this level, but we gotta throw somebody out there. . .

i see a first day pick being spent on the position next year, probably first round. . . .

Ziggy
08-25-2008, 08:41 PM
Let's face it. Nate is the only weak link on this defense. I think we're in for some shootouts this year folks.

Dean
08-25-2008, 08:43 PM
translation: neither of them is good enough to start at this level, but we gotta throw somebody out there. . .

I had high hopes but they were smothered during the three pre-season games. Neither look good enough to me to make a difference in between the lines.


i see a first day pick being spent on the position next year, probably first round. . . .

I am thinking either that is the solution or back to free agency.

Ziggy
08-25-2008, 08:48 PM
I had high hopes but they were smothered during the three pre-season games. Neither look good enough to me to make a difference on between the lines.


i see a first day pick being spent on the position next year, probably first round. . . .

I am thinking either that is the solution or back to free agency.

I still think that Jonathan Vilma would look good in the orange and blue. He's an UFA next season.:D

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 12:00 AM
Great, thats just great.

Two of our biggest off season moves, Niko and Colbert might not even play. Hell, Colbert might not even make the team.

I bet we keep an eye out on the final cuts form other teams.

Remember that these TOO will be blamed on TED..

topscribe
08-26-2008, 12:17 AM
Great, thats just great.

Two of our biggest off season moves, Niko and Colbert might not even play. Hell, Colbert might not even make the team.

I bet we keep an eye out on the final cuts form other teams.

So? If Colbert doesn't make the team, what does that leave? BMarsh, Stokes,
Fast Eddie, and D-Jack?

Meanwhile, the Broncos have upgraded safety, Will, Sam, DT, and OT. And
TE. Nearly every position has been improved over last year, in fact. So MLB
turns out a little more "average" than we hoped?

Pfffft . . . I'm not complaining.

-----

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 12:27 AM
So? If Colbert doesn't make the team, what does that leave? BMarsh, Stokes,
Fast Eddie, and D-Jack?

Meanwhile, the Broncos have upgraded safety, Will, Sam, DT, and OT. And
TE. Nearly every position has been improved over last year, in fact. So MLB
turns out a little more "average" than we hoped?

Pfffft . . . I'm not complaining.

-----

Sure there have been upgrades...

But when you've upgraded from a corvair to a nova, when there are camaros and corvettes out there what is the big deal..

BTW Not so sure that the safety position has been upgraded. Jury is out on SAM, DT..IMHO

topscribe
08-26-2008, 01:39 AM
Sure there have been upgrades...

But when you've upgraded from a corvair to a nova, when there are camaros and corvettes out there what is the big deal..

BTW Not so sure that the safety position has been upgraded. Jury is out on SAM, DT..IMHO

So you consider Champ, Bly, D.J., Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil, Clady, Harris,
Hamilton, Marshall, Fast Eddie, Stokely, Jackson, Graham, Scheffler, Young,
and Cutler as Novas?

You did notice that Denver's first teams looked like they belonged on the
same field as Dallas' and Green Bay's first teams, did you not? And one of
the areas where they mentioned significant improvement? Stopping the run.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread: middle linebacker. If the
Broncos have been better at stopping the run, isn't that the MLB's
department?

Most certainly, there are better MLBs around the league than what the
Broncos have. But maybe what the Broncos have aren't stinking up the
joint to the degree we have made out here?

-----

Superchop 7
08-26-2008, 02:22 AM
Did I miss something? Did you just say that we should bring Al Wilson back?

I loved him as much as the next bronco fan, but if the doctors can't clear you to play, you can't play. Doesn't the fact that no other team in the nfl has signed him speak volumes? He can't pass a physical.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Ummmm........he passed his physical.

He also has a lawsuit against the Bronco's. (The Bronco's are acting like children, they know they screwed up, but wont "man" up)

Really pisses me off.

If Nate Webster is the answer, I'd love to know the question.

gobroncsnv
08-26-2008, 07:05 AM
Ummmm........he passed his physical.

He also has a lawsuit against the Bronco's. (The Bronco's are acting like children, they know they screwed up, but wont "man" up)

Really pisses me off.

If Nate Webster is the answer, I'd love to know the question.

Didn't know that Al passed a physical... what's the story on this? Why hasn't he caught on elsewhere? (seriously) If he's ALL the way back physically, someone's crazy for not getting him signed. If he's "back" like he was his last years with us, then I'll pass. I don't think we have a final solution at LB yet, but under his last playing condition, Al is not the answer either.

Zweems56
08-26-2008, 07:52 AM
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Ummmm........he passed his physical.

He also has a lawsuit against the Bronco's. (The Bronco's are acting like children, they know they screwed up, but wont "man" up)

Really pisses me off.

If Nate Webster is the answer, I'd love to know the question.

Link it to me. I need to see that one. I have a hard time believing that he passed his physical and hasn't been signed by ANY of the other 31 teams.

RunYouOver
08-26-2008, 08:00 AM
Nate or Niko? Niko or Nate?

The most intriguing position battle of the Broncos' preseason ended Monday when coach Mike Shanahan named Nate Webster the starting middle linebacker for the season opener Sept. 8 at Oakland.

Webster, a nine-year veteran who started 13 games at strongside linebacker for the Broncos last season, started the first and third preseason games ahead of Niko Kou-touvides, who was one of the team's top free-agent acquisitions this offseason.

Koutouvides, who was trying to earn his first starting job after starring on special teams for four years with Seattle, played with the first-team defense against Dallas — when the Broncos' starters held the Cowboys' starters scoreless.

Coaches determined, though, that Webster had a better grasp of the Broncos' defense. Webster made three tackles, including one for a loss, during the first half against Green Bay on Friday.

He left Invesco Field at Mile High that night feeling like he had earned the right to start, but said he wanted to stay "professional about it" until Shanahan announced the decision Monday.

"It's an honor, first of all, to be named the starter," Webster said. "The next goal is to get to work and start winning."

That Webster is the one who won the job could be seen as an upset. Five months ago, it seemed possible Webster might be the odd linebacker out after Denver gave Koutouvides a $2 million signing bonus March 3 and signed strongside linebacker Boss Bailey to a $17.5 million deal three days later.

Webster was primarily a backup and special-teams player with Tampa Bay and Cincinnati before becoming a starter for the Broncos last year. He will earn a comparatively modest $830,000 this year — a combination of salary and workout bonus.

Ultimately, those figures mattered little on the field.

The Broncos were more concerned about holding a fair competition than they were about any criticism they might have faced for spending such money on
"It's an honor, first of all, to be named the starter. The next goal is to get to work and start winning." - Nate Webster, Broncos linebacker (Denver Post file photo)
a player who did not make the starting lineup.

"We play the best player and we've been doing it that way for 14 years," Shanahan said. "It doesn't matter if it's a draft choice, free agents. If you start playing people based on money, you won't have a very good chance of becoming a special team."

Webster showed up to training camp in what he and Shana-han described as the best physical condition of his career, the result of Webster's renewed dedication to his offseason conditioning program. He has said his primary inspiration during those workouts was his father, who had suffered a heart attack in January. But the addition of Koutouvides didn't hurt, either.

"He probably felt, not dis-respected, but a little motivated," Koutouvides said.

Shanahan described the competition as "nip and tuck," as Webster and Koutouvides alternated with the first team every few days throughout offseason training and training camp.

"I was doing my job. I just wasn't making a lot of plays out there," Koutouvides said. "I felt like if I could have made more plays it probably would have helped me out more. I'm not going to sit here and give you a bunch of excuses. You've got two guys competing and one guy wins, you've got to deal with it."

Lindsay H. Jones: 303-954-1262 or ljones@denverpost.com
Broncos' starting linebackers

D.J. Williams

6-1, 240, weakside, in 5th year

After a failed one-year experiment at middle linebacker, Williams moves back to the position where he was so effective in his rookie season. He will call the plays in the defensive huddle.

Nate Webster

6-0, 232, middle, in 9th year

The natural middle LB excels at stopping the run and feels more "at home" here than on the strong side, where he played in 2007.

Boss Bailey

6-3, 232, strongside, in 6th year

Bailey had a career-high 3 1/2 sacks last season with Detroit and, when healthy, should be the Broncos' best linebacker in pass coverage.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10302463

omac
08-26-2008, 08:09 AM
If Nate Webster is the answer, I'd love to know the question.

Who's the starting MLB for the Broncos?

omac
08-26-2008, 08:17 AM
Oh, and here's the Al Wilson link .....

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7926072


Ex-Bronco Wilson cleared to continue
By The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 01/09/2008 10:58:21 PM MST


The question of whether Al Wilson will be able to play in the NFL in 2008 has been answered. Now the only query is where.

The former Broncos middle linebacker was cleared by his physician to start working in an NFL program immediately.

Wilson missed the 2007 season after being released by the Broncos in April. He suffered a neck injury in December 2006.

Wilson has been routinely monitored by Dr. Robert Watkins in Los Angeles, and Wednesday received clearance. Because he is both a free agent and healthy, Wilson can sign with any team.

"Al is training and is ready to play," said his Denver-based agent, Peter Schaffer. "There is no greater risk to his health than normal football risks. He is thrilled to get the chance to play again."

Wilson, 30, was a five-time Pro Bowl selection and should receive a lot of interest on the open market.

Asked if Wilson would be open to returning to the Broncos, Schaffer said, "There are 32 teams and Al will go to the best situation for him and his family."

Bill Williamson

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 08:18 AM
He sure has generated a lot of interest. Unfortunately, the doctor may have cleared him, but he must not be ready to go.

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 08:18 AM
D.J. still calling the plays, though. That's interesting.

Requiem / The Dagda
08-26-2008, 08:24 AM
D.J. still calling the plays, though. That's interesting.

That worries me. I hope he doesn't forget them.

claymore
08-26-2008, 08:37 AM
That worries me. I hope he doesn't forget them.Dream, go back over to the Hot Guy thread and post your nonesense there. :coffee:

Requiem / The Dagda
08-26-2008, 08:40 AM
Dream, go back over to the Hot Guy thread and post your nonesense there. :coffee:

Look, G and I can't get over the fact he's a mental midget. Face the facts Claymore!

claymore
08-26-2008, 08:43 AM
Look, G and I can't get over the fact he's a mental midget. Face the facts Claymore!He does work better on the outside. The line backers just look so much faster now.

Zweems56
08-26-2008, 09:14 AM
He sure has generated a lot of interest. Unfortunately, the doctor may have cleared him, but he must not be ready to go.

Agreed. Just because he passed a doctor's physical doesn't mean he can pass an NFL team's physical. I'm relatively sure that the team is liable for any life threatening injuries.

LRtagger
08-26-2008, 11:37 AM
Wow

The game against Green Bay was the deciding factor? I thought Webster played like ASS in that game.

jhns
08-26-2008, 11:44 AM
Wow

The game against Green Bay was the deciding factor? I thought Webster played like ASS in that game.

I could be wrong but I'm sure the deciding factor came from 3 preseason games + the rest of camp. Not just a single preseason game. I think our coaches deserve a little more credit than that.

Traveler
08-26-2008, 11:56 AM
I'll be watching closely to see how many tackles Webster whiffs on this season. This team still has very shoddy tackling technique. The occational kill shot always makes the highlights, but textbook form tackling helps win games. I'll take the latter any day of the week.

turftoad
08-26-2008, 11:56 AM
I could be wrong but I'm sure the deciding factor came from 3 preseason games + the rest of camp. Not just a single preseason game. I think our coaches deserve a little more credit than that.

I'm sure it was more than just one game.

That said, the coach's didn't bring in a bonafide started to compete for the MLB spot. Settling for Webster is unexceptable. Niko can't beat him out, that's not saying a lot about Niko. Who take credit for that?
I expect the coach's to keep an eye out on waived players. Hopefully they'll bring someone in.
If not, we'll have to grin and bear it and wait til next years draft.

:tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

LRtagger
08-26-2008, 12:03 PM
I could be wrong but I'm sure the deciding factor came from 3 preseason games + the rest of camp. Not just a single preseason game. I think our coaches deserve a little more credit than that.

Obviously

But the decision came directly after a game that Webster played poorly in. A game which he felt he played well...and a game that was directly reference in the article that started the thread. :tsk:

broncofaninfla
08-26-2008, 12:16 PM
I really wish they would have let Larson or Beck compete for this spot as well. I'm just not impressed with the talent level that Kouto or Webster seem to have. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Stargazer
08-26-2008, 12:42 PM
So I guess Niko will be waving a special terrible towel at McFadden from the sidlines.

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 01:47 PM
So you consider Champ, Bly, D.J., Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil, Clady, Harris, Hamilton, Marshall, Fast Eddie, Stokely, Jackson, Graham, Scheffler, Young, and Cutler as Novas?

You did notice that Denver's first teams looked like they belonged on the
same field as Dallas' and Green Bay's first teams, did you not? And one of
the areas where they mentioned significant improvement? Stopping the run.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread: middle linebacker. If the
Broncos have been better at stopping the run, isn't that the MLB's
department?

Most certainly, there are better MLBs around the league than what the
Broncos have. But maybe what the Broncos have aren't stinking up the
joint to the degree we have made out here?

-----


Lets see which of the following were not here last year..

Champ, Bly, D.J., Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil, Clady, Harris, Hamilton, Marshall, Fast Eddie, Stokely, Jackson, Graham, Scheffler, Young, and Cutler.

Hmmmmm that is two rookies and a aging one legged vet..

Certainly there has been an upgrade per se if all of these players perform to potential But I suspect even you mister optimistic realize that some of them are going to either be injured and or not be all that they may be.

Dallas had something to prove last year this year they had other things on their minds IMO than coming in and giving it their all in a preseason game after breaking training cap being away from home for almost a month.

GB their offense pretty much moved at will against us considering their QB is nothing but a 4 year rookie..

So far I'm not overwhelmed with the play of our team.. SO far they have done nothing to show me that if a starter goes down that they have a qualified replacements that are going to step in and not screw the pooch.

I'm not all that sure that the starters can NOT screw the pooch..

Has progress been made? I think so but changing systems ONCE again.. having a lot of rookies and 2nd year players just mean in consistency and when the games get tough that is going to boil up to where it hurts the team.

We have up graded OLT I think and maybe Fullback so far everything else seems to be status quo. On offense..

On D upgraded WLB, maybe a partime DT and perhaps Thomas will consistently produce when he is on the field..

Still major concerns for me are MLB, Safeties, MLB, LCB, nickle and dime CBs both DE's.. These are areas that I have not seen any "upgrade" as we speak.. IIRC we did not get a legit sack or pressure on either romo or rogers. We did not stop them from playing pass and catch at all, while the first teamers were on the field.. Only dropped passes, NOT defended passes stalled them at all.

turftoad
08-26-2008, 04:44 PM
Lets see which of the following were not here last year..

Champ, Bly, D.J., Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil, Clady, Harris, Hamilton, Marshall, Fast Eddie, Stokely, Jackson, Graham, Scheffler, Young, and Cutler.

Hmmmmm that is two rookies and a aging one legged vet..

Certainly there has been an upgrade per se if all of these players perform to potential But I suspect even you mister optimistic realize that some of them are going to either be injured and or not be all that they may be.

Dallas had something to prove last year this year they had other things on their minds IMO than coming in and giving it their all in a preseason game after breaking training cap being away from home for almost a month.

GB their offense pretty much moved at will against us considering their QB is nothing but a 4 year rookie..

So far I'm not overwhelmed with the play of our team.. SO far they have done nothing to show me that if a starter goes down that they have a qualified replacements that are going to step in and not screw the pooch.

I'm not all that sure that the starters can NOT screw the pooch..

Has progress been made? I think so but changing systems ONCE again.. having a lot of rookies and 2nd year players just mean in consistency and when the games get tough that is going to boil up to where it hurts the team.

We have up graded OLT I think and maybe Fullback so far everything else seems to be status quo. On offense..

On D upgraded WLB, maybe a partime DT and perhaps Thomas will consistently produce when he is on the field..

Still major concerns for me are MLB, Safeties, MLB, LCB, nickle and dime CBs both DE's.. These are areas that I have not seen any "upgrade" as we speak.. IIRC we did not get a legit sack or pressure on either romo or rogers. We did not stop them from playing pass and catch at all, while the first teamers were on the field.. Only dropped passes, NOT defended passes stalled them at all.

Couldn't have said it better myself JR.

Our offense will be fine. We did get some upgrades. Still, Clady is a rook and Harris is a playing his first NFL season. Reasons to be not so optomistic this year.
Our upgrades on "D"? Not so sure. Two journeymen safteys as starters, a 9yr vet at MLB (thats never had a starting gig) and Niko who can't even beat him out.
Bailey NEVER did great by any means in Det. And.......... as you said, a bunch of second year pass rushers that really showed nothing last year. I hope they will this year.

As I've said before, we'll be average this year and make a push next with a few more upgrades on the defensive side of the ball.
Lets all hope our upgrades (on "D") are better than the ones we picked up this year.

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 08:16 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself JR.

Our offense will be fine. We did get some upgrades. Still, Clady is a rook and Harris is a playing his first NFL season. Reasons to be not so optomistic this year.
Our upgrades on "D"? Not so sure. Two journeymen safteys as starters, a 9yr vet at MLB (thats never had a starting gig) and Niko who can't even beat him out.
Bailey NEVER did great by any means in Det. And.......... as you said, a bunch of second year pass rushers that really showed nothing last year. I hope they will this year.

As I've said before, we'll be average this year and make a push next with a few more upgrades on the defensive side of the ball.
Lets all hope our upgrades (on "D") are better than the ones we picked up this year.

I sent this to a fellow Bronco fan and though I should post it after wards..

When I comment on DAFTS everyone gets their back up..

NO one wants to here that mikey has sucked hind teat from 1996 through 2005 in making choices we got Mobley, Gold, Wilson and Williams as LBs out side of that almost NADA..

Here is a list of decent players in the DAFT since 1996:


year total choice-# of first day choices, most notables in that draft
96 12-4 Mobley
97 3-2 Price, Neil
98 7-3 Greasy
99 12-5 Wilson
00 10-4 Gold, Kennedy, oneal
01 6-3 Hayward, Hamilton
02 8-3 ashley, Poorti$$$$
03 10-2 NADA
04 10-4 DJ Williams
05 6-4 Darrent
06 7-2 Jay, Scheffler, Marshall, Dumervil, Kuper
07 4-3 Moss Crowder, Thomas, Harris


We had 91 choices from 1996-2007 37 of them were day one picks that means top 100 talent from that years draft pool. In most cases one of the top 3 at their position. But how many of them played for more than 3 years a nd of those how many really started those years.. almost none of them.. Sure there were a couple of RB's that were service able MA and OG but once they were out of DEN they were Nothing..

IMO You have to have 3-5 players a year that stick and are up grades over existing players to contend consistently.. everyone wants to think that we did Good this year and plugged alot of holes. Actually if everyone sticks they did plug a couple of holes, but no matter how you slice it you can not expect 5-7 rounders to step in and take the place of those failed 1's, 2's and 3's from 1996-2005 that should still be here in a heavy duty role, if not starting being a valuable backup..

I know that not every Draft choice is going to make it but most of those dafted by mikey from 1996 on have at best given us a couple of years as starters and then moved on or were total crap shoots..

We have to get to the point that day one choices start the second year if not the first year.. Without fail.. that means turning your starters over every ten years.. and we all know that most NFL players do not last ten years.. you might get 12-15 out of a LOS type guy barring injury, but Skill positions like WR, Safety, CB or RB are not going to be that 10 year guy as a general rule.. If we are counting on 5-7th rounders to start then something is wrong IMO..

Nice to know I'm not crazy, like some of these kiddies think I am.. That there are intelligent fans that do not believe with every draft choice it is not an automatic super berth..

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 08:23 PM
I sent this to a fellow Bronco fan and though I should post it after wards..

When I comment on DAFTS everyone gets their back up..

NO one wants to here that mikey has sucked hind teat from 1996 through 2005 in making choices we got Mobley, Gold, Wilson and Williams as LBs out side of that almost NADA..

Here is a list of decent players in the DAFT since 1996:


year total choice-# of first day choices, most notables in that draft
96 12-4 Mobley
97 3-2 Price, Neil
98 7-3 Greasy
99 12-5 Wilson
00 10-4 Gold, Kennedy, oneal
01 6-3 Hayward, Hamilton
02 8-3 ashley, Poorti$$$$
03 10-2 NADA
04 10-4 DJ Williams
05 6-4 Darrent
06 7-2 Jay, Scheffler, Marshall, Dumervil, Kuper
07 4-3 Moss Crowder, Thomas, Harris


We had 91 choices from 1996-2007 37 of them were day one picks that means top 100 talent from that years draft pool. In most cases one of the top 3 at their position. But how many of them played for more than 3 years a nd of those how many really started those years.. almost none of them.. Sure there were a couple of RB's that were service able MA and OG but once they were out of DEN they were Nothing..

IMO You have to have 3-5 players a year that stick and are up grades over existing players to contend consistently.. everyone wants to think that we did Good this year and plugged alot of holes. Actually if everyone sticks they did plug a couple of holes, but no matter how you slice it you can not expect 5-7 rounders to step in and take the place of those failed 1's, 2's and 3's from 1996-2005 that should still be here in a heavy duty role, if not starting being a valuable backup..

I know that not every Draft choice is going to make it but most of those dafted by mikey from 1996 on have at best given us a couple of years as starters and then moved on or were total crap shoots..

We have to get to the point that day one choices start the second year if not the first year.. Without fail.. that means turning your starters over every ten years.. and we all know that most NFL players do not last ten years.. you might get 12-15 out of a LOS type guy barring injury, but Skill positions like WR, Safety, CB or RB are not going to be that 10 year guy as a general rule.. If we are counting on 5-7th rounders to start then something is wrong IMO..

Nice to know I'm not crazy, like some of these kiddies think I am.. That there are intelligent fans that do not believe with every draft choice it is not an automatic super berth..

JR...people get ansy about your draft analysis, because its not compared to other teams, its just this random critique of our drafts assuming that every other team is better.

And I don't mean taking the Chargers, Colts and Patriots and saying "see...we suck." Your indictment of our drafts includes no research about other teams, and what they've done and what the normal hit/miss rate is in the draft.

It's just this blind..."see, we suck," comment. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough for me. Show that Shanahan and his scouting department have been the worst and I'll agree, but you never seem to do that, you just assume that we are bad. Do some comparisons, and then I'll be willing to take these critiques with a little more than a grain of salt.

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 08:58 PM
JR...people get ansy about your draft analysis, because its not compared to other teams, its just this random critique of our drafts assuming that every other team is better.

And I don't mean taking the Chargers, Colts and Patriots and saying "see...we suck." Your indictment of our drafts includes no research about other teams, and what they've done and what the normal hit/miss rate is in the draft.

It's just this blind..."see, we suck," comment. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough for me. Show that Shanahan and his scouting department have been the worst and I'll agree, but you never seem to do that, you just assume that we are bad. Do some comparisons, and then I'll be willing to take these critiques with a little more than a grain of salt.


While I appreciate your comments it has ZERO to do with what I expect our team to do..

DO you think that almost every team in the NFL did not do as good or far superior to DEN over those years.. If not I'm sorry for your outlook..

I could really careless about the other teams.. and I'm not worried about them..

Out of the 90 some odd choices during that time frame and almost 40 POTENTIAL top 100 choices on day one we should have had more players that stuck on the team more than a couple of years before moving on or completely out of football..

Can you not see that? we had 4 LBs that were worth a damn in those years ONE DE in price and that is about it.. of those 4 LB none of the them lasted more than 7 years..

Go back and look and see how many player years we got out of all of mikeys choices and then see how many of them were starters and how many pro bowl years out of all of his DAFT choices.. I suspect you'll be ill after looking at those stats....

Again I know that many players are going to play a few years and get hurt go on IR or move on. But mikeys choices during this time frames and in particular 2000-2005 is just horrible..

here are all of his choices from day one.. pray tell how many are really worthy to be picked.. my choices are in red, I'm not looking at 2007-08 yet cause frankly the jury is still out on them.

2008 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Ryan Clady T Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
4 108 Kory Lichtensteiger G Bowling Green State
4 119 Jack Williams CB Kent State
5 139 Ryan Torain RB Arizona State
5 148 Carlton Powell DT Virginia Tech
6 183 Spencer Larsen OLB Arizona
7 220 Josh Barrett SAF Arizona State
7 227 Peyton Hillis FB Arkansas

2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)


MIGHTY SLIM PICKINS on that list IMHO

gobroncsnv
08-26-2008, 08:58 PM
JR, everyone also knows that you have a fairly low opinion of Shanny's off-season moves, whether or not they can be attributed to our former GM... It's true, the buck stops with Mike... And also, everyone knows that our drafts up until 05 were fairly lousy as well. Some hits, alot of misses, both in draft and in the FA meat market.
What is encouraging though, is that I think things are turning around, starting with 05. He seems to be going after (and getting) some quality players, both on and off the field. You can build with that. We've had several FA's whose lack of character detracted from their contribution to the team, either in extra-curricular antics, or contractual whiny-ness.
I see a change in philosophy in our approach to the offseason that is refreshing. He is addressing the right positions at the best possible speed. I don't think we're SB good yet, but we are incrementally, fundamentally, improving. We're gonna have some "misses" yet again this year, but there's a quote out there about how long it took to build Rome. I'm thinking maybe the glass is half-full, but it's not leaking so much anymore, and the water level is rising.
I think that MLB is a concern this year, and I can't really give the nod to either of these 2 right now. But given our situation at our LB's last year, I say we're better in 08.

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 09:05 PM
While I appreciate your comments it has ZERO to do with what I expect our team to do..

DO you think that almost every team in the NFL did not do as good or far superior to DEN over those years.. If not I'm sorry for your outlook..

I could really careless about the other teams.. and I'm not worried about them..

Out of the 90 some odd choices during that time frame and almost 40 POTENTIAL top 100 choices on day one we should have had more players that stuck on the team more than a couple of years before moving on or completely out of football..

Can you not see that? we had 4 LBs that were worth a damn in those years ONE DE in price and that is about it.. of those 4 LB none of the them lasted more than 7 years..

Go back and look and see how many player years we got out of all of mikeys choices and then see how many of them were starters and how many pro bowl years out of all of his DAFT choices.. I suspect you'll be ill after looking at those stats....

Again I know that many players are going to play a few years and get hurt go on IR or move on. But mikeys choices during this time frames and in particular 2000-2005 is just horrible..

here are all of his choices from day one.. pray tell how many are really worthy to be picked.. my choices are in red, I'm not looking at 2007-08 yet cause frankly the jury is still out on them.

2008 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Ryan Clady T Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
4 108 Kory Lichtensteiger G Bowling Green State
4 119 Jack Williams CB Kent State
5 139 Ryan Torain RB Arizona State
5 148 Carlton Powell DT Virginia Tech
6 183 Spencer Larsen OLB Arizona
7 220 Josh Barrett SAF Arizona State
7 227 Peyton Hillis FB Arkansas

2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)


MIGHTY SLIM PICKINS on that list IMHO

I'm sorry, but do we not compete against other teams?

What is there success rate? What is their hit/miss rate?

Until you can examine someone other than the Broncos you have ZERO basis for your complaints. I'm sorry, but you have nothing to go on, until you establish some sort of (for lack of a better term) test group.

If we don't stack up, we don't stack up...but, again, we have to have something to compare it to, to know whether its a valid argument or not.

Until then...it's not a valid argument...it's just a bunch of spewed crap about how our President of Football Operations suck.

Show me why he sucks, and I'll agree with you...until then...spare us these lengthy diatribes of hate towards the personnel department.

And for ****'s sake...his name is Mike Shanahan.

Requiem / The Dagda
08-26-2008, 09:18 PM
Save your breath Missouri.

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 09:21 PM
JR, everyone also knows that you have a fairly low opinion of Shanny's off-season moves, whether or not they can be attributed to our former GM... It's true, the buck stops with Mike... And also, everyone knows that our drafts up until 05 were fairly lousy as well. Some hits, alot of misses, both in draft and in the FA meat market.
What is encouraging though, is that I think things are turning around, starting with 05. He seems to be going after (and getting) some quality players, both on and off the field. You can build with that. We've had several FA's whose lack of character detracted from their contribution to the team, either in extra-curricular antics, or contractual whiny-ness.
I see a change in philosophy in our approach to the offseason that is refreshing. He is addressing the right positions at the best possible speed. I don't think we're SB good yet, but we are incrementally, fundamentally, improving. We're gonna have some "misses" yet again this year, but there's a quote out there about how long it took to build Rome. I'm thinking maybe the glass is half-full, but it's not leaking so much anymore, and the water level is rising.
I think that MLB is a concern this year, and I can't really give the nod to either of these 2 right now. But given our situation at our LB's last year, I say we're better in 08.



Well everyone wanted to blame Ted for the lousy drafts and if you really look at before he was there they were not much better and if your going to praise mikey for 2005 froward he probably played as much in those DAFTS as he he in the prior ones..

Your correct the buck stops at mikeys desk.. and if you look at the "deep pool" of choices that made it for more than say 3-4 years after being drafted in DEN and either starting here or moving on those numbers are simply pathetic IMO..

Again what other teams do or do not do has not bearing on what we did.. But if you do compare then look at the successful teams like INDY, NE, DAL, JAX and a few others and see how they did..

There was a report out 7-8 months ago showing DEN was the worst drafting team in the NFL since 2000. While I suspected it for longer than that they did indeed compare how we all did and showed in black and white how bad it really was..

Again I personally could care less about the other teams..

It comes down to if you can not consistently pick 3 players from the top 100 players coming out of college. In most cases the top 3 perhaps 4 at any one position each year then something is drastically wrong with something in your FO..

For Gods sake Kiper and the other dude from the NFL network seem to be able to do it why can't we.

Hell Boss, Gmoney, Dream, Kay lore and a few more on here seem to have a better handle on it than the FO does..

Now after the top 120 players or so it is a coin toss and we should never count on anyone on day 2 (5-7) making the team any that do are PURE gravy IMO.

But those top 100 players there should be little doubt about if they can play in the NFL. YES I know that injuries happen see Mobley, Wilson, greasy and most notable TD. But what happened to all the other day one picks most hung on till it was less embarrassing to let them go about this time two years after they were picked and touted on DAFT day, a couple of years before..

omac
08-26-2008, 09:22 PM
Lets see which of the following were not here last year..

Champ, Bly, D.J., Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil, Clady, Harris, Hamilton, Marshall, Fast Eddie, Stokely, Jackson, Graham, Scheffler, Young, and Cutler.

Hmmmmm that is two rookies and a aging one legged vet..

Certainly there has been an upgrade per se if all of these players perform to potential But I suspect even you mister optimistic realize that some of them are going to either be injured and or not be all that they may be.

That's only 3 out of 17 names. The knock you give on Robertson hasn't affected him his whole career, yet you expect it to be an issue now. Those 2 rookies have performed way above expectations this preseason. Clady's just gone up against 2 premiere DEs and held his ground pretty well. Royal has been making plays, and already looks better than the #1 receiving options of the Titans and the Bears, so he could be good as a #2 or slot receiver.

The comment about players being injured or not all they may be ... you can apply that to almost any player in the league ... Julius Peppers not being all that he can be last season .... was Marvin Harrison an injury risk before last season? Joe Thomas likely to be a Nova before last season season started ....

If there's anything this preseason has shown is that we've addressed some of our major weaknesses from last season ... pass protection (Cutler's never been sacked, and has tons of time to throw), and run defense (where opponents have been forced to pass on 3rd down). That's a huge contrast over last season, and the difference is also evident when compared to last preseason's games, when we couldn't stop the run, and couldn't pass protect either.


Dallas had something to prove last year this year they had other things on their minds IMO than coming in and giving it their all in a preseason game after breaking training cap being away from home for almost a month.

That's what the Dallas players want you to believe. The truth is, they've been competing with the Broncos during practices, and the intensity was such that it got heated a few times, with one Dallas player ripping the helmet off of Thomas.

They wanted to win this game. They just got their asses kicked. After the loss, the Dallas coach said they probably needed to gameplan more, but Jay put it nicely when he said, "we were ready for their blitzes, and when you have an answer for it, they no longer go to it" (that's a loose paraphrasing).


GB their offense pretty much moved at will against us considering their QB is nothing but a 4 year rookie..

Rodgers has been learning the system for 4 years, so he's more prepared than a rookie, similar to how Rivers and Schaub were more prepared than a rookie. He also shows very good composure. He's actually played pretty well in his last regular season game, the one against Dallas when Favre had 2 INTs before getting injured. Rodgers showed composure and scored a TD, playing much better in that game than Favre. I believe Rodgers is a much better QB than Rivers.

But using your own argument, our first team moved at will against all 3 teams they've faced. Do Dallas and Green Bay now have problems on defense?


So far I'm not overwhelmed with the play of our team.. SO far they have done nothing to show me that if a starter goes down that they have a qualified replacements that are going to step in and not screw the pooch.

You can say that for most teams in the league. If a QB goes down, there goes their season, probably save for the Titans and the Chargers, who's offenses can get by with almost any QB. It depends on the position.

This preseason has shown that with Bailey and Bly out for the majority of it, Paymah and Foxworth as a combo have done a decent ... not great ... job. Our MLB's are far from all-pro caliber, but we have been containing the run, our major weakness last season. And in that respect, either MLB were at the very least decent at it.


I'm not all that sure that the starters can NOT screw the pooch..

Last season, the question marks on offense were pass protection, running between the tackles, and red zone scoring. Our starters have shown more effectivity in those areas than most teams during the preseason.

We've definitely been better against the run this preseason than last preseason.

What are the indicators to make you lean towards having doubt they can do it in the regular season?


Has progress been made? I think so but changing systems ONCE again.. having a lot of rookies and 2nd year players just mean in consistency and when the games get tough that is going to boil up to where it hurts the team.

I don't really see this as changing the system. The offense is still running the same type plays, and that's obvious. We just now have the pass protection to go deeper.

The defense is a change from last season, but not a drastic change from seasons before. The emphasis on the defense was to go back to stopping the run. The reason the players are reacting well against the run is because this is a defense that is very familiar to them.

So in effect, it's definitely not a change in offensive system, and on defense, it's a change back to how the Broncos used to play defense.


We have up graded OLT I think and maybe Fullback so far everything else seems to be status quo. On offense..

The upgrade is not just OLT and FB. The whole OL as a unit is much better at pass protection than last season's was. Cutler has tons of time to make throws. We're using Hall to run between tackles and to get rushing TDs.

I know it's only preseason, but this preseason Bronco team's offense looked much better than last preseason's offense.


On D upgraded WLB, maybe a partime DT and perhaps Thomas will consistently produce when he is on the field..

Still major concerns for me are MLB, Safeties, MLB, LCB, nickle and dime CBs both DE's.. These are areas that I have not seen any "upgrade" as we speak.. IIRC we did not get a legit sack or pressure on either romo or rogers. We did not stop them from playing pass and catch at all, while the first teamers were on the field.. Only dropped passes, NOT defended passes stalled them at all.

There are definite question marks until they actually play and hopefully start to gel, but the rush defense is greatly improved from last season. The pass rush is still buggy. The other thing to remember is that for most of the preseason, we were playing without Champ and Bly, our #1 and #2 CBs. Bly didn't do too well when he did play, but he's coming off of an injury, so I'll wait till he warms up. I'm surprised you mentioned safeties, as McCree and Manuel have been doing pretty good. There have been no talks about missing Lynch on defense.

I do get where you're coming from, as another poster said it. Something to the effect as "if something good happens in the preseason, then it's nothing, because it's preseason, but if something bad happens in the preseason, then it's something."

For me, if this preseason is any indicator ....

Possitives: QB, OL pass protection, red zone scoring, running inside the tackles and to the outside, sure handed receivers, kickoff touchbacks, stopping the run.

Negatives: pass rush/pressuring the QB (which will affect CB play), kickoff coverage when not a touchback ... there are probably much more, but I can't think of them right now .... :cheers:

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 09:31 PM
I'm sorry, but do we not compete against other teams?

What is there success rate? What is their hit/miss rate?

Until you can examine someone other than the Broncos you have ZERO basis for your complaints. I'm sorry, but you have nothing to go on, until you establish some sort of (for lack of a better term) test group.

If we don't stack up, we don't stack up...but, again, we have to have something to compare it to, to know whether its a valid argument or not.

Until then...it's not a valid argument...it's just a bunch of spewed crap about how our President of Football Operations suck.

Show me why he sucks, and I'll agree with you...until then...spare us these lengthy diatribes of hate towards the personnel department.

And for ****'s sake...his name is Mike Shanahan.

WHO cares about the other teams I do not..

Mikey has screwed the pooch for years and we are paying for it now..

Christ look at the list your self and tell me YOU could not have made better choices..

This year we had so many holes to fill we are praying that Every player drafted makes the squad and CONTRIBUTES if not STARTS.. and this is all because none of his choices from 2000 to 2005 were worth a crap.. Had he had decent drafts during that time frame and had 2-3 stick and start more than two years perhaps we would not be praying that NO ONE gets dinged for more than a game or two..

Knowing that if Marshall is out more than a couple of games our season is toast.. Same goes for Jay, Scheffler, clady, Hamilton, Kuper or fat boy, Champ, DJ. just to name a few..

Sorry but this team is razor thin at the starting spots and not much if any quality backups to step in..

Again look in the mirrior and tell me if your laughing or not when you tell me that you or Dream, Boss, Gmoney, Kaylore ,Top, Turf could probably not done a better job at picking talent over the past 5-6 years.. I'll bet putting the names in a hat and drawing them out, we could have done better..

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 09:37 PM
WHO cares about the other teams I do not..

Mikey has screwed the pooch for years and we are paying for it now..

What you don't seem to understand is that you have to show that he sucks by comparing it to what other teams do. Again, until you do, your diatribes are full of useless information. It's a fairly simple concept, and I'd expect you to understand that.

There's also a reason that the Broncos are Top 3 in win percentage in the last 20 years. See, that is a valid argument, because there's a simple comparison.

Now, if you can show, that the majority of teams have drafted better than the Broncos and that the normal rate of hit vs. miss players is well above Shanahan's, then you have a VALID argument. Until you do that...you've got nothing.

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 09:51 PM
That's only 3 out of 17 names. The knock you give on Robertson hasn't affected him his whole career, yet you expect it to be an issue now. Those 2 rookies have performed way above expectations this preseason. Clady's just gone up against 2 premiere DEs and held his ground pretty well. Royal has been making plays, and already looks better than the #1 receiving options of the Titans and the Bears, so he could be good as a #2 or slot receiver.

I do not hold alot of stock in Preseason games everything is awfully plain vanilla clady has done well and really could be a super star in a year or so but I'm willing to bet he'll make more mistakes this year when the games count and most likely hit that rookie wall in about game 11-12. Robertson I have been saying is a 50% players if that.
While everyone is gushing about royale the real season still has not started yet I heard much the same thing about Scheffler two years ago and about watts also.. and then there was ashley.. rookie WR have never been huge in mikeys game plans during the regular season. I'm a bit sceptical about if he will change his spots on this one either.

The comment about players being injured or not all they may be ... you can apply that to almost any player in the league ... Julius Peppers not being all that he can be last season .... was Marvin Harrison an injury risk before last season? Joe Thomas likely to be a Nova before last season season started ....

noted injuries happen

If there's anything this preseason has shown is that we've addressed some of our major weaknesses from last season ... pass protection (Cutler's never been sacked, and has tons of time to throw), and run defense (where opponents have been forced to pass on 3rd down). That's a huge contrast over last season, and the difference is also evident when compared to last preseason's games, when we couldn't stop the run, and couldn't pass protect either.

it is still just plain vanilla game plans and it is still not real games..


That's what the Dallas players want you to believe. The truth is, they've been competing with the Broncos during practices, and the intensity was such that it got heated a few times, with one Dallas player ripping the helmet off of Thomas.

They wanted to win this game. They just got their asses kicked. After the loss, the Dallas coach said they probably needed to gameplan more, but Jay put it nicely when he said, "we were ready for their blitzes, and when you have an answer for it, they no longer go to it" (that's a loose paraphrasing).

perhaps but I get alot of cowgirls press where I live.. While I do not like them at all I suspect there is a lot of truth to their minds not being on the game as much as getting to go home..

Rodgers has been learning the system for 4 years, so he's more prepared than a rookie, similar to how Rivers and Schaub were more prepared than a rookie. He also shows very good composure. He's actually played pretty well in his last regular season game, the one against Dallas when Favre had 2 INTs before getting injured. Rodgers showed composure and scored a TD, playing much better in that game than Favre. I believe Rodgers is a much better QB than Rivers.

he is still a rookie I'm guessing less than a hunderd real passes in his pro career..

But using your own argument, our first team moved at will against all 3 teams they've faced. Do Dallas and Green Bay now have problems on defense?


You can say that for most teams in the league. If a QB goes down, there goes their season, probably save for the Titans and the Chargers, who's offenses can get by with almost any QB. It depends on the position.

This preseason has shown that with Bailey and Bly out for the majority of it, Paymah and Foxworth as a combo have done a decent ... not great ... job. Our MLB's are far from all-pro caliber, but we have been containing the run, our major weakness last season. And in that respect, either MLB were at the very least decent at it.

Last season, the question marks on offense were pass protection, running between the tackles, and red zone scoring. Our starters have shown more effectivity in those areas than most teams during the preseason.

We've definitely been better against the run this preseason than last preseason.

What are the indicators to make you lean towards having doubt they can do it in the regular season?

I don't really see this as changing the system. The offense is still running the same type plays, and that's obvious. We just now have the pass protection to go deeper.

The defense is a change from last season, but not a drastic change from seasons before. The emphasis on the defense was to go back to stopping the run. The reason the players are reacting well against the run is because this is a defense that is very familiar to them.

So in effect, it's definitely not a change in offensive system, and on defense, it's a change back to how the Broncos used to play defense.

The upgrade is not just OLT and FB. The whole OL as a unit is much better at pass protection than last season's was. Cutler has tons of time to make throws. We're using Hall to run between tackles and to get rushing TDs.

Again plain vanilla defenses and it is not the real games we are about to get into..

I know it's only preseason, but this preseason Bronco team's offense looked much better than last preseason's offense.

There are definite question marks until they actually play and hopefully start to gel, but the rush defense is greatly improved from last season. The pass rush is still buggy. The other thing to remember is that for most of the preseason, we were playing without Champ and Bly, our #1 and #2 CBs. Bly didn't do too well when he did play, but he's coming off of an injury, so I'll wait till he warms up. I'm surprised you mentioned safeties, as McCree and Manuel have been doing pretty good. There have been no talks about missing Lynch on defense.

I do get where you're coming from, as another poster said it. Something to the effect as "if something good happens in the preseason, then it's nothing, because it's preseason, but if something bad happens in the preseason, then it's something."

For me, if this preseason is any indicator ....

Possitives: QB, OL pass protection, red zone scoring, running inside the tackles and to the outside, sure handed receivers, kickoff touchbacks, stopping the run.

Negatives: pass rush/pressuring the QB (which will affect CB play), kickoff coverage when not a touchback ... there are probably much more, but I can't think of them right now .... :cheers:



I have really seen nothing other than clady as being an upgrade for this team.. IF Robertson can play all year and give us more than 60% of the plays then perhaps we have some improvement against RUN and some pressure on the QB.. I see NO indications that the safeties or LBs have improved other than DJ..

Now I will say that I have not went over the game film this year like I have in years past but what I have seen does not impress that we have turned the corner and will see the playoffs but as a spectator..

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 10:00 PM
What you don't seem to understand is that you have to show that he sucks by comparing it to what other teams do. Again, until you do, your diatribes are full of useless information. It's a fairly simple concept, and I'd expect you to understand that.

There's also a reason that the Broncos are Top 3 in win percentage in the last 20 years. See, that is a valid argument, because there's a simple comparison.

Now, if you can show, that the majority of teams have drafted better than the Broncos and that the normal rate of hit vs. miss players is well above Shanahan's, then you have a VALID argument. Until you do that...you've got nothing.


Let me try one more time I do not care about the other teams.. what the other teams do is totally irrelevant to me..

BTW there was a report 8-9 months ago that totally supports my thought process it is on here (forum) somewhere.. I think it showed that the Broncos since 2000 had the worst drafts in the league. something that most of us already knew.

IF we can't pick three decent players out of the top 100 college kids each and every year something is wrong with the FO.

and looking at the list of DAFTEES mikey has screwed the pooch, it is plain for anyone that is not a total homer to see.

Plain and simple.. If you can not understand this really simple concept then we will have to agree to disagree..

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 10:07 PM
Let me try one more time I do not care about the other teams.. what the other teams do is totally irrelevant to me..

BTW there was a report 8-9 months ago that totally supports my thought process it is on here (forum) somewhere.. I think it showed that the Broncos since 2000 had the worst drafts in the league. something that most of us already knew.

IF we can't pick three decent players out of the top 100 college kids each and every year something is wrong with the FO.

and looking at the list of DAFTEES mikey has screwed the pooch, it is plain for anyone that is not a total homer to see.

Plain and simple.. If you can not understand this really simple concept then we will have to agree to disagree..

I guess we will agree to disagree. Especially since you have no clue what the success rate of the average draftee is, nor do you care.

I'm not being a homer, btw...far from it...I'm asking for an average and a comparison - neither which you can come up with, nor consider.

G_Money
08-26-2008, 10:23 PM
I guess we will agree to disagree. Especially since you have no clue what the success rate of the average draftee is, nor do you care.

I'm not being a homer, btw...far from it...I'm asking for an average and a comparison - neither which you can come up with, nor consider.

The problem with that idea is that we're not striving to be average. We're trying to compete with the upper echelon teams, so we need to compare not to how the Jets do in the draft, but how the Cowboys, Chargers, Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Giants, etc do in the draft.

They ALL succeed in the draft big-time. They ALL find major contributors for their rosters and have depth at pretty much every position.

We were trying to do it all with FA for all of our post-SB years, and thus failed miserably in the draft. We've finally started catching up with our 06 draft, and possibly this draft. The 07 draft reeks of thrown away picks and drafting on athletic potential, problems we had in the previous half-dozen years in spades. Hopefully the picks we DID take wind up turning out.

We need them to.

But I can't argue with Jr's anger at our prior drafting habits. 06 and 08 might signify a turnaround that is better late than never. In a couple years we should know about 08, and will hopefully have closed some of the talent gap between us and the upper echelon teams in terms of both starting and backup talent.

Again, we need to. Cutler's a guy we can build around, so we need to be good at that. Soon.

~G

omac
08-26-2008, 10:25 PM
I guess we will agree to disagree. Especially since you have no clue what the success rate of the average draftee is, nor do you care.

I'm not being a homer, btw...far from it...I'm asking for an average and a comparison - neither which you can come up with, nor consider.

I did one about a year or so ago. I compared the Broncos with the Chargers, Pats, and I think one or two more teams. In most years, the Broncos were better than some and worse than others. Some people agreed with me, others didn't. Not sure if it was here or in the "Broncos Country" forum.

No matter, fans will always be more critical of their teams than others. While we were complaining about our pass rush defense in '05, fans of other teams were probably commenting on how well we were against the run. The Titans would kill to have the receiving options we have at WR and TE. The Vikings would love for Tavaris Jackson to be half the QB Jay is.

While we're complaining about the short yardage rushing that seems to be the weakness of our zone-blocking scheme, other teams are busy trying to gameplan against our tough rushing offense.

It's all perspective. The Broncos are not as bad as some fans think they are, and not as good as others think they are.

MOtorboat
08-26-2008, 10:28 PM
I did one about a year or so ago. I compared the Broncos with the Chargers, Pats, and I think one or two more teams. In most years, the Broncos were better than some and worse than others. Some people agreed with me, others didn't. Not sure if it was here or in the "Broncos Country" forum.

No matter, fans will always be more critical of their teams than others. While we were complaining about our pass rush defense in '05, fans of other teams were probably commenting on how well we were against the run. The Titans would kill to have the receiving options we have at WR and TE. The Vikings would love for Tavaris Jackson to be half the QB Jay is.

While we're complaining about the short yardage rushing that seems to be the weakness of our zone-blocking scheme, other teams are busy trying to gameplan against our tough rushing offense.

It's all perspective. The Broncos are not as bad as some fans think they are, and not as good as others think they are.

And I'm not agreeing or disagreeing...I just want a comparison...not blind hatred.

dogfish
08-26-2008, 10:36 PM
damn right G!


let me re-emphasize this part again:



The problem with that idea is that we're not striving to be average.


A-freakin'-men!!


just because the niners and lions throw away picks left and right doesn't make it acceptable for us to do so. . .

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 10:37 PM
I guess we will agree to disagree. Especially since you have no clue what the success rate of the average draftee is, nor do you care.

I'm not being a homer, btw...far from it...I'm asking for an average and a comparison - neither which you can come up with, nor consider.


Do you really care about other teams and how they do? Really care..

SInce you do please read the following and see if it puts your mind to rest.. I;m going to bed..

This is real simple either we are successful or we are not..

Go find the report and cry your self to sleep it is really that bad..

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=531#more-531

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14708&highlight=drafting

see my post 21


here is a quote from Cugel which I find enlightening..


I look at those numbers differently than you do. To sum up.


Initially, I compared the approximate value of each player selected at any spot in the draft, relative to the draft value of that pick. If the players a team has drafted have accumulated more value than the pick is worth, he’s a good pick and that team did well.

OK, fair enough. How do the teams rank?


So which teams have done the best? Not surprisingly, it’s the Colts. Indianapolis has been a great team for the past decade, and it’s almost all because of homegrown players. The worst drafting team [Lions] probably isn’t much of a surprise, either.

So, the system produces results that make some sense. The Colts have been SB champions and are contenders every year. Take a look at the top teams.

I color coded it to make it easier. Teams in YELLOW went to the SB during this period. Teams in CYAN went got to the Conference Championship, but lost.


AV DV Diff
Indianapolis Colts 40.74 31.12 9.62
Green Bay Packers 34.89 28.87 6.02
Baltimore Ravens 35.99 30.54 5.45
Pittsburgh Steelers 36.61 31.19 5.42
Philadelphia Eagles 38.42 33.26 5.16
Dallas Cowboys 34.79 31.07 3.72
Tennessee Titans 37.90 34.83 3.07
Buffalo Bills 32.25 29.38 2.88
New York Giants 31.40 28.78 2.62
Jacksonville Jaguars 37.47 35.15 2.33
Chicago Bears 37.36 35.30 2.05
New England Patriots 35.75 34.55 1.20
Kansas City Chiefs 27.47 27.08 0.39
St. Louis Rams 36.19 35.80 0.39
Seattle Seahawks 34.62 34.59 0.03
New York Jets 32.24 32.25 -0.01
Denver Broncos 30.47 30.71 -0.24

So far so good. Good drafting results in success. For some reason (lack of a good QB or good defense) the Chiefs and Bills haven't been successful despite having good drafts for years. In the Chiefs case, they drafted both one of the best steals (Jared Allen) and one of the biggest busts (Ryan Sims), so that's rather a wash. Notice that Denver has had 3 of the top busts on it's roster (Willie Middlebrooks, Courtney Brown and David Terrell), but only one of them (Middlebrooks) was drafted by them.

Still the Broncos overall rating is a net negative. Over the ten year period from 1996-2005, given their draft position, they haven't done well in drafting, but they are far from the worst in the league. I think everybody understands this.

The Broncos have been held back by bad drafting, but they weren't totally hapless like the Matt Millen Lions, the Cleveland Browns, the Saints, Bengals, Cardinals or the Raiders. Carson Palmer aside, none of those teams has done anything for years or is likely to this year.

But, the picture is muddied by being such a long time. Most players DON'T LAST TEN YEARS IN THE NFL. The average is more like 3 or 4 years. And starters might last 5 or 6. Notice that two of the three "best" Broncos draft picks were taken back in the 1990s and NONE are still with the team (Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce and Clinton Portis). Portis was traded for Bailey, who has a marginally better score than Portis so that was a net plus.

So, the drafts from 1996-1998 were better than those since then - up to 2005. That also accords with what we know, since the 2005 team was the last to have significant impact from players drafted/acquired in the early Shanahan years (Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce, Rod Smith).

Things have gone downhill the last two years because the drafts from 2001-05 sucked so bad. That's when Shanahan was drafting Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Paul Toviesi, George Foster, Ashley Lelie, Terry Pierce, Tatum Bell, and Darius Watts in the first or second round.

This present team is a product of the last 3 years draft. Since 2005, the team has produced better talent, but it's too early to tell if it will pan out. Too many young players are unproven. So, 3 years from now we could either be looking at the drafts as great or shoddy depending on how players like Moss, Crowder, Sheffler, Thomas and Ryan Harris do.

dogfish
08-26-2008, 10:41 PM
MO, i would also point out that pro football weekly, a well-respected publication, did a piece last year ranking teams in terms of their draft success over the past decade. . . they put us dead last! doesn't mean that they're right, or that they know everything, but that should give you some idea of how our drafting is seen from a neutral perspective. . .

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 10:45 PM
And I'm not agreeing or disagreeing...I just want a comparison...not blind hatred.


I realize you see it as hatred I see it as being realistic and looking at what we have done or not done..

You could have made better picks than what we did.. IMO
almost anyone that followed college ball and went to the Senior bowl as well as the combine could have IMO made as good if not better picks than mikey and company, at least on day one..


since it means so much to you. Go read the report and see that we have not even been average on draft day.. let alone in the company of the big dogs..

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 10:47 PM
MO, i would also point out that pro football weekly, a well-respected publication, did a piece last year ranking teams in terms of their draft success over the past decade. . . they put us dead last! doesn't mean that they're right, or that they know everything, but that should give you some idea of how our drafting is seen from a neutral perspective. . .


I was looking for that piece when I found Fan in exiles thread.. That was the one I was referring to I remember the DEAD last parts vividly.

If anyone can find it I would appreciate seeing it again..

dogfish
08-26-2008, 11:00 PM
I was looking for that piece when I found Fan in exiles thread.. That was the one I was referring to I remember the DEAD last parts vividly.

If anyone can find it I would appreciate seeing it again..


it was a year ago, and as far as i know they don't archive their reports back that far. . . i suppose people can take our word for it or not, as they prefer. . .


*shrugs*

Lonestar
08-26-2008, 11:14 PM
it was a year ago, and as far as i know they don't archive their reports back that far. . . i suppose people can take our word for it or not, as they prefer. . .


*shrugs*

I'm sure we had it on here sometime in the last 7-8 months seemed to me like it was last December or early January I saw it here..

BTW After posting the other thread it got awfully quiet did it not..

Superchop 7
08-27-2008, 12:26 AM
He sure has generated a lot of interest. Unfortunately, the doctor may have cleared him, but he must not be ready to go.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

In hollywood....it's called blacklisted.

He has been ostracized.

Like I said, he stood his ground,

At the end of the day "he" is right,

The Broncos are wrong,

If the Bronco's had any common sense, they would apologize,

And Al would be in uniform.

Superchop 7
08-27-2008, 12:31 AM
If Nate Webster is the answer,

I'd love to know the question.

LordTrychon
08-27-2008, 12:35 AM
If Nate Webster is the answer,

I'd love to know the question.

The question is a two part question....

Who is the Middle linebacker of the Denver Broncos this season?

and...

Who's most likely to be replaced in round 1 of the 2009 NFL draft?

Superchop 7
08-27-2008, 12:39 AM
Amen.

FYI,

My thread,, "Worst MLB in the history of football" is what got me kicked off (permanently) from Bronco's Country.

So be it, I stand my ground.

weazel
08-27-2008, 12:48 AM
man this team is gonna get burned up the middle, its going to be a nightmare season.

LordTrychon
08-27-2008, 01:11 AM
Amen.

FYI,

My thread,, "Worst MLB in the history of football" is what got me kicked off (permanently) from Bronco's Country.

So be it, I stand my ground.

Yeah... I needed an FYI as to what happened. Thanks. :salute:

hamrob
08-27-2008, 09:37 AM
Webster is definitely weak...but so is our strongside situation as well. Boss may have been an o.k. option...but now with a high ankle sprain that is sure to carry through the season...we can look at getting burned on the short to intermediate routes and if the RB can get through the line...we better hope our Safeties can tackle.!

Next year's #1 better be a Mike...personally, I like the kid from USC over the kid from Ohio State. There's a few others as well. The 2009 draft is supposed to have quite a bit of LB talent...so we should do well. Fingers crossed.

AlWilsonizKING
08-29-2008, 10:49 PM
Bet all ya Nate Dub haters didn't like seeing the 30 second snippit on him during the game, hmm? Funny the Shanny quote Gary Miller was talking about. How Nate worked harder in this offseason, came in much better shape, did all the right things, was in all the right spots, made all the right plays etc, etc" I sure enjoyed it!!! :salute:

Just shows that just because you "may think you know......you have no idea"



PEACE!!!

SmilinAssasSin27
08-29-2008, 10:54 PM
I'm not a Webster hater, but I hardly think that snippet proves the haters wrong. Nobody said he is ever out of position. People's complaints are the missed tackles. No matter what Shanny says, we can see with our own eyes that he misses more than a starting MLB should.

dogfish
08-29-2008, 10:57 PM
Bet all ya Nate Dub haters didn't like seeing the 30 second snippit on him during the game, hmm? Funny the Shanny quote Gary Miller was talking about. How Nate worked harder in this offseason, came in much better shape, did all the right things, was in all the right spots, made all the right plays etc, etc" I sure enjoyed it!!! :salute:

Just shows that just because you "may think you know......you have no idea"



PEACE!!!



come on big al, you've watched the broncos all your life and you still can't recognize coachspeak?


:D


he's stuck with webster, WTH else is he going to say? i'll be shocked if we don't draft a middle linebacker in the top two rounds next year. . . .

AlWilsonizKING
08-29-2008, 10:57 PM
I'm not a Webster hater, but I hardly think that snippet proves the haters wrong. Nobody said he is ever out of position. People's complaints are the missed tackles. No matter what Shanny says, we can see with our own eyes that he misses more than a starting MLB should.


I think Shanny and his coaches see a little bit more than WE do.


PEACE!!!

Lonestar
08-29-2008, 10:59 PM
Bet all ya Nate Dub haters didn't like seeing the 30 second snippit on him during the game, hmm? Funny the Shanny quote Gary Miller was talking about. How Nate worked harder in this offseason, came in much better shape, did all the right things, was in all the right spots, made all the right plays etc, etc" I sure enjoyed it!!! :salute:

Just shows that just because you "may think you know......you have no idea"



PEACE!!!

he still can't tackle so who gives a rats rectum.

SmilinAssasSin27
08-29-2008, 11:00 PM
maybe in practice, but we can all see what is in front of us on TV. I'd never pretend to know or understand more than any NFL coach, but I know what a missed tackle looks like. Again, no matter how Shanny tries to spin it...it doesn't mean a thing if he's in position every time if he doesn't make the plays.

Lonestar
08-29-2008, 11:03 PM
maybe in practice, but we can all see what is in front of us on TV. I'd never pretend to know or understand more than any NFL coach, but I know what a missed tackle looks like. Again, no matter how Shanny tries to spin it...it doesn't mean a thing if he's in position every time if he doesn't make the plays.

does anyone still believe anything mikey says? Unbelievable.. there is coach speak then there is mikey speak..


How do you know when mikey is pumping smoke up your ass .. His lips are moving.. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

AlWilsonizKING
08-29-2008, 11:14 PM
:rolleyes:

I've seen stranger things than a player having a great year after not being to well know for his play before...... plus I've seen plenty of comments about "his helmet comes off" 'He likes Hip Hop" and those are reasons for hateing on him.....so do we start hateing on Aldridge cause his helmet was coming off? Do we throw Foxy under the bus cause he wasn't able to make a play tonight? I like the guy and will support him.


:beer: Here's to Nate Dub having a great year. :beer:



PEACE!!!

Lonestar
08-29-2008, 11:20 PM
:rolleyes:

I've seen stranger things than a player having a great year after not being to well know for his play before...... plus I've seen plenty of comments about "his helmet comes off" 'He likes Hip Hop" and those are reasons for hateing on him.....so do we start hateing on Aldridge cause his helmet was coming off? Do we throw Foxy under the bus cause he wasn't able to make a play tonight? I like the guy and will support him.


:beer: Here's to Nate Dub having a great year. :beer:



PEACE!!!

What I do not understand is from someone that likes Al Wilson, Is how you can stand up for this hack webster?

AlWilsonizKING
08-29-2008, 11:26 PM
What I do not understand is from someone that likes Al Wilson, Is how you can stand up for this hack webster?

Because I like attitude!! Nate brings attitude just like Al did.

:listen:And let's not forget that there were those who wanted to drop Al cause he was starting to miss a lot of tackles....but I still supported him cause he brought the pain and attitude.



PEACE!!!

SmilinAssasSin27
08-29-2008, 11:28 PM
I wish webster well and believe he is better at this point than Niko who simply looks lost at times. I simply think his tackling is below average.

AlWilsonizKING
09-09-2008, 09:05 PM
Well I have to say I was impressed with Webster last night, but that's no surprise..;) And his helmet only came off once...lol.

And even got to see the Bboy from DJ!!! :cool: if only for a split second.



PEACE!!!

hamrob
09-10-2008, 12:48 PM
Look, I like his attitude too. I also like his motor...I think its contageous out there. I really thought Winborn and DJ bought into it and it resulted in much more inspired play then what we've been used to the last few years.

Having said that, Webster is one dimensional. He's a straight line knock out artist who has poor hips and takes terrible angles on plays. Add to that...he's a liability in coverage and you're left crossing your fingers while watching the game.

I really hope others see that and realize...we need to go get a stud in next year's draft. I truly hope that people don't get blinded by the fact that Nate will end up with a 130+ tackles this year.

I want a guy like Meck and Gradishar back there. A blue collar beast that rarely if ever misses a tackle and can also lay the wood. That's not Nate Webster.

jhns
09-10-2008, 12:53 PM
I voted Webster and was right.

Mostly because I just voted.

AlWilsonizKING
09-10-2008, 03:44 PM
Boy I wish we could have the best player at every position. But, unlike what some of you believe, that just can't happen.

I don't recall Atwater, Lynch or even Al Wilson being the most sound tacklers....yet they could all bring the pain when hitting. THAT IS WHAT I LIKE. Nate likes to hit just as the others I mentioned do.....so maybe he's not the leader the others were....not every player can be a leader.

If our D Line would do it's job, maybe we wouldn't have to rely on our LB's to do all the playmaking....:rolleyes:...but yet I don't see a lot of threads about "we need to draft a better Dlineman", "This Dlineman sucks we need better", etc, etc.....


Keep bringin' that pain Nate!!! Some of us still support the TEAM and ALL OF IT'S PLAYERS!!!!



PEACE!!!

SmilinAssasSin27
09-10-2008, 04:04 PM
I don't disagree w/ most of what you say, BUT...


I know many who would contend that the DLs job is to occupy Olinemen so that the LBs can run free.

LRtagger
09-10-2008, 04:34 PM
Boy I wish we could have the best player at every position. But, unlike what some of you believe, that just can't happen.



It can if we draft the right people.

hamrob
09-10-2008, 05:49 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. My point isn't that Nate can't deliver a blow...and we all do love seeing that...when it happens, but that he misses way too many tackles and is somewhat of a liability.

I agree you can't have a Pro-bowl player at every position...but if we could have just our choice of just one position on D to have a Pro-bowl player at...I think alot of folks would vote for MLB. Just saying...

SmilinAssasSin27
09-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Regardless, I think it's safe to say we draft MLB pretty early in th 09 draft. Pending on Torain's health, I'd say...MLB, S, RB in that order.

dogfish
09-10-2008, 08:10 PM
Regardless, I think it's safe to say we draft MLB pretty early in th 09 draft. Pending on Torain's health, I'd say...MLB, S, RB in that order.

pending the development of moss and/or crowder, and the health of robertson, i might take another DL or two ahead of safety or RB. . . otherwise, i'd say that's about right. . .

SmilinAssasSin27
09-10-2008, 08:44 PM
I think a real offense will expose the also-rans we currently have at the Safety spots.

AlWilsonizKING
09-10-2008, 10:16 PM
but that he misses way too many tackles and is somewhat of a liability.

And what I was stating with my post, is that at least in this game...I didn't see many missed tackles from Nate. It IS possible for players to get better......

Stats from the last game....


Name G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL Int Yds IntTD PD Sfty
Nate Webster 1 7 4 11 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
John Engelberger 1 6 0 6 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Marquand Manuel 1 6 0 6 0.0 0 0 0 0 1 0
D.J. Williams 1 5 2 7 1.0 9 0 0 0 0 0
Jamie Winborn 1 5 1 6 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Marlon McCree 1 4 0 4 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Kenny Peterson 1 2 1 3 1.0 4 0 0 0 0 0
Champ Bailey 1 2 0 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dre' Bly 1 2 1 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Marcus Thomas 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Spencer Larsen 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Wesley Woodyard 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Andre Hall 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Peyton Hillis 1 1 1 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nate Jackson 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Ebenezer Ekuban 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Karl Paymah 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Hamza Abdullah 1 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nic Clemons 1 1 0 1


Not bad considering his not that good.....:confused::rolleyes:

Actual link... (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den/stats;_ylt=AmCoSOK8u4npw24dSCa24sWE2bYF)



PEACE!!!

AlWilsonizKING
09-21-2008, 11:33 PM
Hmmmmmm. Nate looked pretty good today.....I mean if he doesn't take that fumble in or stop the rb from getting in through the huge hole on 4th down we lose....


:confused:


....but he's not that good, and his hemet come off....:tsk:


:laugh:



PEACE!!!

56crash
09-21-2008, 11:47 PM
I prefer Laurinitis. Maualuga is an animal, but he seems to have a recklessness about him that could backfire. I prefer the steadier of the two.

You must of hated Al Wilson

lex
09-21-2008, 11:56 PM
Nates not great but its hard to tell how bad someone truly is until we have a more competent DC than Slowik. I wouldnt be shocked if we got a better DC and realized some of these guys werent as bad as we thought.

Retired_Member_001
09-22-2008, 04:30 AM
Meh, as long as he doesn't go head first into tackles like he did last year, only to ricohet off of the player, have his helmet go flying off of his head, and then fall on his backside, then I am happy.

He fights hard, something you want in your starting MLB. We will obviously replace him with a better MLB when we have the chance, so we just have to hope he players it smart this year.

Tned
09-22-2008, 07:21 AM
I will have to wait until I watch the game again, but I didn't see Webster as our problem.

lex
09-22-2008, 07:42 AM
Boy I wish we could have the best player at every position. But, unlike what some of you believe, that just can't happen.

I don't recall Atwater, Lynch or even Al Wilson being the most sound tacklers....yet they could all bring the pain when hitting. THAT IS WHAT I LIKE. Nate likes to hit just as the others I mentioned do.....so maybe he's not the leader the others were....not every player can be a leader.

If our D Line would do it's job, maybe we wouldn't have to rely on our LB's to do all the playmaking....:rolleyes:...but yet I don't see a lot of threads about "we need to draft a better Dlineman", "This Dlineman sucks we need better", etc, etc.....


Keep bringin' that pain Nate!!! Some of us still support the TEAM and ALL OF IT'S PLAYERS!!!!



PEACE!!!

While Im not a Webster apologist, you make an excellent point at the top. People keep saying "not another DC switch" and also, "we need to draft all defense". Our DC has been so inept at scheming any kind of pressure that we dont really know what we need in personnel. As you said, it would be nice to have all pros at each position but thats not realistic. We are not top 5 in personnel but we're not bottom 5 either and there are a lot of teams who are doing a lot more with less than what you have seen with Slowik.

hamrob
09-22-2008, 12:24 PM
Nate Webster (for the hundredth time) is a straight line player. Yeah, he makes plays that are on a line. He does not take good angles and he is a huge liability in the passing game.

39 for 48 passing. How does that happen? You isolate the LB's and safeties and it's like shooting fish in a barrell when those guys can't cover RB's out of the back field or TE's down the middle.

We played a 3-man line and tried to place extra protection against the pass. We still got smoked...because we don't have the atheletes to cover down the field.

Answer me this. Who was supposed to be covering Billy Miller and Shockley? Plus, when you rewatch the game...watch where the Saints threw the ball most of the game...short in the middle...slants, curls, in's etc. Why because we are exposed in the middle of the field....where our MLB and Safeties are.

Also, if you watch the play that Nate returned for a TD...focus on where he was when he recovered the ball. He wasn't in on the tackle...that's for sure....he mearly reached down and picked it up (2yds away). The play was ran off of the RG...why wasn't our MLB in on the tackle?

Yes, he's good for 2-3 good plays each game...but he gives up 11-12 because of his average abilities. He's nowhere near the talent of Al Wilson or any of the leading MLB's in the game. We cannot have a liability like that on D....and not be exposed.