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rationalfan
11-28-2010, 07:54 PM
Hey, I didn't see the game - listened to the first half on the radio - so this might be more obvious than i realize; but it sounded like the team had a good game plan early and then st. louis made adjustments. so, is the problem ...

1. Great scheme, bad players?

2. Great pre-game scheme, horrible in-game adjustments by the coaches?

3. just a bad team having the lack of talent catch up to it?

and, please, can we keep this constructive?

broncofaninfla
11-28-2010, 07:55 PM
It's gotten so bad I don't know anymore. I just know I never felt this way under Shanahan.

Medford Bronco
11-28-2010, 07:58 PM
Bad players to bad results.

He was good in NE when he had the horses.

but I feel that he has no clue on how to draft and is so arrogant on his knowledge
and should not have blown up the offense when it was in place.

try to fix the bad defense which was wretched and still wretched.

I am dumbfounded.

I feel like an old Arizona Cardinal fan from 1985-2007 with their one good season mixed in
and that being a 9-7 one

MileHiWildcat
11-28-2010, 07:59 PM
Hey, I didn't see the game - listened to the first half on the radio - so this might be more obvious than i realize; but it sounded like the team had a good game plan early and then st. louis made adjustments. so, is the problem ...

1. Great scheme, bad players?

2. Great pre-game scheme, horrible in-game adjustments by the coaches?

3. just a bad team having the lack of talent catch up to it?

and, please, can we keep this constructive?

McDoofus is incapable of making in-game adjustments AND he has pissed away all the draft choices the team needed to replenish a sorry, aging Defense.

Ravage!!!
11-28-2010, 08:00 PM
HOnestly.. this is two games in a row that we've seen great opening drives, and it falls off dramatically after that.

John Lynch made good points about this very thing, when talking about Bradford. He was saying that its easy to game plan for your scripted and opening drives, and get the WRs involved quickly and move the ball early. As the game progresses, those players have to make adjustments, have to make plays, and have to adjust to what the defense does.

We aren't. The opening drive is scripted out (I'm sure some will say its not, but its almost too obvious. The tempo is so much faster and smoother, and the players are just precise). After that, we are relying on our players to make adjustments, and our COACHING staff can't seem to make adjustments, on the fly. As soon as the Rams scored, they abandoned the running game that SEEMED to be working early.

Then it was the same story as last week. Our players, and coaches, can't seem to adjust as the game moves on.

Krugan
11-28-2010, 08:00 PM
well, all ive got to say is, since the chat with Elway, and the usage of scripts of the first plays, we have started well.

From there, ill just make a guess, but our coach isnt taking the plays that worked and making them work again.

But im of the mind that McD isnt such a great play caller.

So im overly biased and most likely should have just checked my fingers at the door :(

broncofaninfla
11-28-2010, 08:01 PM
I fully credit Nolan for the 6-0 run last year whick is the only bright spot on the Mcd tenor in Denver.

Bronco Bible
11-28-2010, 08:01 PM
It's gotten so bad I don't know anymore. I just know I never felt this way under Shanahan.

Just go back a couple of years when the Chuggers handed our a***s to us, you will find it hard not to recognize it............ :coffee:

jhildebrand
11-28-2010, 08:03 PM
Personally, from my view point this is nothing more than McD doing a great job of scripting plays getting the team the lead. After that he goes for the kill and dials up long developing deep passes. Before you know it the D has been on the field a lot and the O hasn't run the ball and gets out of rhythm.

broncofaninfla
11-28-2010, 08:05 PM
Just go back a couple of years when the Chuggers handed our a***s to us, you will find it hard not to recognize it............ :coffee:

At least we had one phase of our team working well then. We suck in every phase of the game now. There isn't a team in the NFL that wouldnt be licking thier chops to play the team that Mcd/Xanders/Ellis now field for Denver,

broncofaninfla
11-28-2010, 08:07 PM
Personally, from my view point this is nothing more than McD doing a great job of scripting plays getting the team the lead. After that he goes for the kill and dials up long developing deep passes. Before you know it the D has been on the field a lot and the O hasn't run the ball and gets out of rhythm.

Ther is no rhythm with this offense. It really seems like a I've seen this work before approach. With Shanny he would keep things off balanced in our favor but this cat seems like he is clueless past mimicing what he has seen before.

Lancane
11-28-2010, 08:10 PM
The egg...but the bad thing is the egg fell out of the nest, hit the floor and now that the chicken has brain damage! ;)

underrated29
11-28-2010, 08:14 PM
I think it is the same old story just that people have been seeing it for so long that they forget about it.


THE DEFENSE THE DEFENSE THE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It has nothing to do with the offense, josh mcd or anything else. It is all on the defense. Our defense seriously blows. We did a great job once we pressured the QB, but until we did that bradford ate us alive. Now the cause of this can be to the coaches and scheme and josh approving of such and players drafted and filled. But the defense was a problem long before josh got here too.


Sure he should have fixed it first a long time ago, but he didnt and that imo is why we keep losing games. We have ZERO defense!!!



I was not thrilled with the offensive play calling on some of the drives. But really folks. look at the numbers- im not going to look them up, but


look at all of our losses. How many points did the defense give up? I bet it was 30 or more. So unless you expect our offense to continually put up 40 points each and every week. I say you are not thinking with an unbias head.


It is 100% on the defense. And IMO I would be fine if we did not draft an offensive player until 5 next year. Bradford went something like 16-18 and 3tds before we dialed up the pressure. That is stupid. Just stupid.

jhildebrand
11-28-2010, 08:14 PM
Ther is no rhythm with this offense. It really seems like a I've seen this work before approach. With Shanny he would keep things off balanced in our favor but this cat seems like he is clueless past mimicing what he has seen before.

Exactly. McDaniels for two weeks now has dialed up opening posession scores only to completely abandon everything that worked on those drives.

A couple of 3 and outs and no runs and the score flips.

Dener had 159 yards of offense at one point to St Louis' 4 yards. 4 not 40! Yet, what did McD do? He went for the long ball and tried to force his system to work as opposed to continue to take what the D gave him.

BigDaddyBronco
11-28-2010, 08:18 PM
I think it is the same old story just that people have been seeing it for so long that they forget about it.


THE DEFENSE THE DEFENSE THE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It has nothing to do with the offense, josh mcd or anything else. It is all on the defense. Our defense seriously blows. We did a great job once we pressured the QB, but until we did that bradford ate us alive. Now the cause of this can be to the coaches and scheme and josh approving of such and players drafted and filled. But the defense was a problem long before josh got here too.


Sure he should have fixed it first a long time ago, but he didnt and that imo is why we keep losing games. We have ZERO defense!!!



I was not thrilled with the offensive play calling on some of the drives. But really folks. look at the numbers- im not going to look them up, but


look at all of our losses. How many points did the defense give up? I bet it was 30 or more. So unless you expect our offense to continually put up 40 points each and every week. I say you are not thinking with an unbias head.


It is 100% on the defense. And IMO I would be fine if we did not draft an offensive player until 5 next year. Bradford went something like 16-18 and 3tds before we dialed up the pressure. That is stupid. Just stupid.

I do think it has something to do with the offense and the special teams. As bad as the defense is, and boy are they bad, the offense doesn't help by having 3 and outs are by scoring on big plays. There just isn't enough ball control to keep the defense off the field and rested.

BigDaddyBronco
11-28-2010, 08:21 PM
It's a combination of 2 and 3. A lot of things have to go right for this team to be successful. Any adversity and they fold like a deck of cards. It's bad coaching and a lot of bad players.

Even if we switch coaches, it will take years to clean up this mess. Even longer if Bowlen doesn't get a real GM and scouting dept.

gobroncsnv
11-28-2010, 08:27 PM
I fully agree with Lynch about his comments on all of the scheme turnover we've had.... especially on D. Shanny's offense style was consistent, and he went after players who fit the style. But our continual shape-shifting on D has been a problem for the last batch of years (I think it goes back to the late 90's, myself, after the SB wins). You keep having to go back over and over again to refill holes that keep getting opened because you have a new guy who does things his own way. Now it happens to be the head coach as well. Get a philosophy, stick with it, DRAFT by it, and WIN with it.
If we just gotta change coaches, and consequently, a new D coordinator as well, we'll be stuck rebuilding from the ground up. If the ownership doesn't get a mindset and team look in place, and tell EVERYONE who comes here that THIS IS WHO WE ARE, FIT OR LEAVE, and be consistent in how and what we're trying to build, you'll get to hang on to that feeling of being able to relate to the Phoenix fan base.
If you look carefully, this post is directed at the ownership and upper management for the Denver Broncos. THEY set the tone, but the best ones stay in the background after they put the right people in place, from the GM on down. Seems to me the days of the coach and GM for most franchises are over, 'cause once you change coaches, you suddenly have a lot of players who "don't fit" anymore.

BigDaddyBronco
11-28-2010, 08:30 PM
I fully agree with Lynch about his comments on all of the scheme turnover we've had.... especially on D. Shanny's offense style was consistent, and he went after players who fit the style. But our continual shape-shifting on D has been a problem for the last batch of years (I think it goes back to the late 90's, myself, after the SB wins). You keep having to go back over and over again to refill holes that keep getting opened because you have a new guy who does things his own way. Now it happens to be the head coach as well. Get a philosophy, stick with it, DRAFT by it, and WIN with it.
If we just gotta change coaches, and consequently, a new D coordinator as well, we'll be stuck rebuilding from the ground up. If the ownership doesn't get a mindset and team look in place, and tell EVERYONE who comes here that THIS IS WHO WE ARE, FIT OR LEAVE, and be consistent in how and what we're trying to build, you'll get to hang on to that feeling of being able to relate to the Phoenix fan base.
If you look carefully, this post is directed at the ownership and upper management for the Denver Broncos. THEY set the tone, but the best ones stay in the background after they put the right people in place, from the GM on down. Seems to me the days of the coach and GM for most franchises are over, 'cause once you change coaches, you suddenly have a lot of players who "don't fit" anymore.
Totally agree. Bowlen hired Shanny and McDaniels who are both offensive minded coaches with a philosophy of having the defense not get blown out, but not necessarily winning either. If McDaniels gets fired what makes us think that he will not replace him with another offensive minded coach with GM-like powers?

I Eat Staples
11-28-2010, 08:47 PM
Bad players, bad scheme.

McD's scripted plays work well, but he has no clue how to adjust during the course of a game. Our defense is talentless and that clown "Wink" puts our scrubs in bad positions to make things even worse.

G_Money
11-28-2010, 09:03 PM
It's the defense...but the offense isn't helping.

McDaniels does fine with scripted plays he calls to offset what he sees on film, but when the other team adjusts or he runs out of plays he goes back to Plan A: throw the damn ball all over the place.

Which hangs the defense out to dry on those three-and-outs.

And the defense doesn't really have any lower to get to. McDaniels has the offense back to the level of the last few years of Shanny: not a juggernaut, but can string together a few series, move the ball, sometimes punch it in to the endzone. Shanahan could at least run it, while Josh either cannot or will not do that, but the offense is adequate for the time being.

But the defense is a mess. And it will KEEP being a mess, because he fired the only good DC we had since Coyer, and the way he exited will keep us from getting another one until Josh is fired.

We also won't have a competent GM until Josh is gone.

It astounds me that Josh has managed to throw everyone he can under the bus and yet the mistakes and losses keep piling up. The embarrassments to the team and the organization keep growing.

We're a national joke, and I don't see how it changes with Josh still in charge. He simply will not be able to get competent coaching help now that he's eternally on the hot seat and is dragging his coaches into his boss's office to berate them for his mistakes.

There's no one to help him select better talent (not that he'd let them). He's hired coaches who cannot do the jobs he's put in front of them, but he can't do the job he's put in front of himself either, so it's not like he can lead by example.

The man can't lead at all.

Forget whether it's the chicken or the egg. We need a new chicken to remove BOTH possiblities, because I think it's both. Bad eggs and stupid chickens.

Mr. Bowlen, this is on you. This 2 year reign of black eyes for the organization is your fault. He was your hand-picked man and he's failed. Now that it's established that we will keep having these organizational snafus, these misunderstandings that require apologies to other teams, to the league and to the fans, you're the only one who can do something about it.

The man is a clown. McDaniels is a clown, and as long as you allow him to ride around on his unicycle squirting us all in the face with soda water - or acid, as the case may be - then you're to blame.

We'll have more years of rebuilding once he's gone, but he's not up to the task you've set for him. He cannot be the GM/head coach/offensive coordinator/defensive dictator/locker room leader/visionary that you seem to want him to be, and that he imagines he is.

Get a new head coach, and a new GM. Two different people. And let them chart a new course. After we've been run onto the rocks a few times by the current captain I'm no longer willing to believe that he's gonna get any better at it, and we don't have any more ships to crash.

Drown this chicken and get a new one.

Now.

~G

Day1BroncoFan
11-28-2010, 09:04 PM
Lack of leadership, play calling and unmotivated players.

During the 2nd and 3rd quaters the defense was out to lunch.

No pass rush.

Medford Bronco
11-28-2010, 11:00 PM
I do think it has something to do with the offense and the special teams. As bad as the defense is, and boy are they bad, the offense doesn't help by having 3 and outs are by scoring on big plays. There just isn't enough ball control to keep the defense off the field and rested.

No running game.

The D does suck but McD the GM drafted much of this motley crue and failed miserable so far.

Also suck against the run as ususal:mad:

Broncos Mtnman
11-28-2010, 11:28 PM
Exactly. McDaniels for two weeks now has dialed up opening posession scores only to completely abandon everything that worked on those drives.

A couple of 3 and outs and no runs and the score flips.

Dener had 159 yards of offense at one point to St Louis' 4 yards. 4 not 40! Yet, what did McD do? He went for the long ball and tried to force his system to work as opposed to continue to take what the D gave him.

Mickey is a freakin' genius!!

:coffee:

Luckyshot
11-28-2010, 11:34 PM
How bout trying to make a patriots system work without all the pieces in place. Or a coaching staff that just does not get it.

This week the Patriots main rusher had 12 carries, Moreno 12 carries, difference, Tom Brady is the QB of the patriots.

Moreno was looking good and then we call 6 freaking pass plays in the row.

You can be a one dimensional team if that one dimension is so talented that it will overcome the flaw of running a proper football attack.

Last week against the Chargers, the broncos started to push more playaction without even attempting to run the ball. So Chargers defense use Shaun Phillips as a spy and he starts sacking Orton. Instead of making adjustments, maybe even more hand offs to bring back the threat of the run game, placing a blocker at Orton's back side, everything stayed the same till the 4th quarter.

The Broncos do not have the talent to be a Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, Jets, type team.

But 10-6 with the right coaching especially with our schedule was doable.