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GEM
11-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Apparently, Jay Glazier on the Fox Pregame show had this to say:


McD admitted the Patriot version of Spygate was practiced and coached, apparently McD had been denying this for years according to them..

McD took the entire coaching staff to Bowlen after the Raider loss and ripped into them.

Someone from the league caught the guy taping the 49ers.


Yikes...

Got this from a post over at Mania. I don't have it on.

elsid13
11-28-2010, 12:20 PM
Apparently, Jay Glazier on the Fox Pregame show had this to say:


McD addmitted the Patriot version of Spygate was practiced and coached, apparently McD had been denying this for years according to them..

McD took the entire coaching staff to Bowlen after the Raider loss and ripped into them.

Someone from the league caught the guy taping the 49ers.


Yikes...


Sorry but that is a dick move. I had my team screw up big time before and never, never did I throw them under the bus in front of executive leadership. You tell leadership what went wrong and how you are going to fix it, you don't sacrifice everyone to make it like it not your fault.

turftoad
11-28-2010, 12:20 PM
Apparently, Jay Glazier on the Fox Pregame show had this to say:


McD addmitted the Patriot version of Spygate was practiced and coached, apparently McD had been denying this for years according to them..

McD took the entire coaching staff to Bowlen after the Raider loss and ripped into them.

Someone from the league caught the guy taping the 49ers.


Yikes...

Like I said before, I don't think this story is over yet.

Nomad
11-28-2010, 12:21 PM
:lalala: They're lying BRONCOS and NFL would never cover up anything! It's a conspiracy....a conspiracy I tell ya!! McDaniels is the poster child for the Boy Scouts!!

GEM
11-28-2010, 12:24 PM
Also stated that there is animosity between McD and his assistant coaches.

I would guess that is true if he's taking all of them into Bowlen's office and degrading them in front of the owner. And to that...who the **** is he? Who is degrading him for heading that loss up? He's just as guilty if not more. If I were Bowlen I would have told his ass to get the hell out of my office with that shit. I probably would have told him to get his ass out of my facility for even bringing that shit to my office.

jhildebrand
11-28-2010, 12:28 PM
Like I said before, I don't think this story is over yet.

I have been saying the same thing. In fact, I think it is just beginning. I also believe this is the kind of thing that never fully goes away.

The league and the Broncos are trying to kill this as fast as possible. I do think it would be different if the Broncos had a winning record, too.

turftoad
11-28-2010, 12:29 PM
Also stated that there is animosity between McD and his assistant coaches.

I would guess that is true if he's taking all of them into Bowlen's office and degrading them in front of the owner. And to that...who the **** is he? Who is degrading him for heading that loss up? He's just as guilty if not more. If I were Bowlen I would have told his ass to get the hell out of my office with that shit. I probably would have told him to get his ass out of my facility for even bringing that shit to my office.

Someone here did mention something about "Amature Hour at Dove Vally"

I would have to agree.

jhildebrand
11-28-2010, 12:29 PM
Also stated that there is animosity between McD and his assistant coaches.

I would guess that is true if he's taking all of them into Bowlen's office and degrading them in front of the owner. And to that...who the **** is he? Who is degrading him for heading that loss up? He's just as guilty if not more. If I were Bowlen I would have told his ass to get the hell out of my office with that shit. I probably would have told him to get his ass out of my facility for even bringing that shit to my office.

McD and personality conflicts? :confused: No way! :rolleyes:

BeefStew25
11-28-2010, 12:30 PM
Someone here did mention something about "Amature Hour at Dove Vally"

I would have to agree.

Me. Like a monkey in a spaceship.

Lancane
11-28-2010, 12:31 PM
I have been saying the same thing. In fact, I think it is just beginning. I also believe this is the kind of thing that never fully goes away.

The league and the Broncos are trying to kill this as fast as possible. I do think it would be different if the Broncos had a winning record, too.

I just hope we don't lose our first round pick because of this bullshit! Screw what happens to the coach or the staff, we need that pick!

Nomad
11-28-2010, 12:33 PM
I just hope we don't lose our first round pick because of this bullshit! Screw what happens to the coach or the staff, we need that pick!

I believe some people are daydreaming about the possibility of that Stanford QB entering the draft and becoming the second coming of #7!!

elsid13
11-28-2010, 12:36 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/28/report-mcdaniels-explains-to-coaching-staff-differences-between-spygate-i-and-ii/

It only get better and better:

McDaniels also warned his staff to keep their mouths shut. “If this gets out, there are jobs on the line,” McDaniels told the staff, per Glazer.

So why did it get out? It possibly had something to do with the fact that, after the 59-14 loss to the Raiders, McDaniels took the staff to owner Pat Bowlen and lambasted them, according to Glazer.

Glazer also reports that there are “raised eyebrows” in the facility, based on the perception that McDaniels threw Scarnecchia under the bus. Which implies that there’s a belief within the organization that, while McDaniels and Scarnecchia didn’t get their stories together after the fact, they possibly got their stories together before the fact.

GEM
11-28-2010, 12:37 PM
He tossed Belicheat on the floor.

According to Glazier....he had a staff meeting on Friday. He told the group that Spygate 1 was planned and practiced. This was a one time thing and that they don't do things this way here. He also told the coaches to keep their mouths shut.

Who knows if it's true, but Glazier says he is getting his info from someone inside.

jhildebrand
11-28-2010, 12:38 PM
I just hope we don't lose our first round pick because of this bullshit! Screw what happens to the coach or the staff, we need that pick!

That's what I don't get! People continue to insist that McD "might as well finish out the season because he can't do anymore damage!"

I couldn't disagree more! This incident shows he could trash our draft position altogether and do TONS of damage. Fire the guy already! If they do, and lose every remaining game, I wont be critical. I would even go so far as to resume my purchasing of memorabilia to add to my extensive collection.

Lancane
11-28-2010, 12:39 PM
I believe some people are daydreaming about the possibility of that Stanford QB entering the draft and becoming the second coming of #7!!

It would be nice...but I was thinking more along the lines of defensive talent! :beer:

jhildebrand
11-28-2010, 12:39 PM
The league wants this thing dead.

Meanwhile in St. Louis, coincidentally the team we play today, will begin a petition to add an asterisk to the Pats 2002 SB win.

elsid13
11-28-2010, 12:41 PM
I believe some people are daydreaming about the possibility of that Stanford QB entering the draft and becoming the second coming of #7!!

Luck isn't our #7 but he darn good and has potential to be another Manning or Matt Ryan. But unless we get the #1 spot we ain't getting him.

GEM
11-28-2010, 12:44 PM
Luck isn't our #7 but he darn good and has potential to be another Manning or Matt Ryan. But unless we get the #1 spot we ain't getting him.

That isn't far from reach, sad to say. My question is what do we do with Tebow at that point?

camdisco24
11-28-2010, 12:46 PM
I knew this story wasn't over.
I'll be keeping a close eye on it. I find a lot of the details very sketchy...

Thanks for the update GEM

turftoad
11-28-2010, 12:46 PM
That isn't far from reach, sad to say. My question is what do we do with Tebow at that point?

That'll be up to our new coach next year to figure out. :D

elsid13
11-28-2010, 12:47 PM
That isn't far from reach, sad to say. My question is what do we do with Tebow at that point?

Nothing, because the current regime isn't going to give up on him and McDaniels has tied himself to Tebow as long as he here.

Krugan
11-28-2010, 12:47 PM
I dont know what to do with tebow. can we trade him for the picks we gave up last year? But im willing to bet Luck wont be in orange and blue.

I dont have a problem with Tebow btw, im just not sold that he will transition well. I was really hoping for the kid we are going to see today, Bradford impressed as a good pass with enough mobility to transition well, but thats just me.

OrangeHoof
11-28-2010, 12:51 PM
If you're in the Top 5, you can probably trade up for it if you want him bad enough but why do we want to use a #1 on a QB when we've already spent a bunch of money on Orton and Mr. Heisman? Any trade up would almost have to include one of those players for it to make any financial sense.

GEM
11-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Nothing, because the current regime isn't going to give up on him and McDaniels has tied himself to Tebow as long as he here.

My thought is not under McDaniels. My thought is under a new coach. I just wonder if we waste the pick and move in another direction. No one is going to give up what we paid for him because he wasn't even slotted until 3-5th round. UGH!

spikerman
11-28-2010, 12:55 PM
That isn't far from reach, sad to say. My question is what do we do with Tebow at that point?

How about turning him into a blocking tight end? After all, he had nearly as many receptions as Richard Quinn in college.

Tned
11-28-2010, 12:56 PM
I was going to post the PFT article with "don't say anything" "Jobs are on the line", but see it was already posted. I didn't watch any pregame stuff today (head in the sand approach), so thanks for the recap, Gem.

Re Tebow, I would be very surprised if we draft another QB next year. Even if there is a new HC, we've all talked about how it was likely a mistake for McD to focus on offense, rather than defense, so it's hard to imagine that he, or another HC, would draft offense early in next years draft.

Another major dilema that Broncos have is what to do the final six games.

McDaniels has now lost support among most of his most ardent supporters. In the court of public opinion, McDaniels has been tried and convicted. If the Broncos management (Mr. Bowlen and Joe Ellis) really still have faith in him, they need to win back fan support over the next six games.

Now, the 'smart' thing to do for 2011, would be to play Tebow and other youngersters to both evaluate them and get them live game experience. However, that means the Broncos likely lose most of the last 6 (let's say five, as they aren't ready to go there yet).

On the other hand, the best way to garner support for McDaniels is to finish with 4 or 5 wins in the last six, which likely won't happen playing youngsters and Tebow.

So, what do they do? Do what's best for the team or try and get fan support behind McDaniels again?

spikerman
11-28-2010, 01:01 PM
I was going to post the PFT article with "don't say anything" "Jobs are on the line", but see it was already posted. I didn't watch any pregame stuff today (head in the sand approach), so thanks for the recap, Gem.

Re Tebow, I would be very surprised if we draft another QB next year. Even if there is a new HC, we've all talked about how it was likely a mistake for McD to focus on offense, rather than defense, so it's hard to imagine that he, or another HC, would draft offense early in next years draft.

Another major dilema that Broncos have is what to do the final six games.

McDaniels has now lost support among most of his most ardent supporters. In the court of public opinion, McDaniels has been tried and convicted. If the Broncos management (Mr. Bowlen and Joe Ellis) really still have faith in him, they need to win back fan support over the next six games.

Now, the 'smart' thing to do for 2011, would be to play Tebow and other youngersters to both evaluate them and get them live game experience. However, that means the Broncos likely lose most of the last 6 (let's say five, as they aren't ready to go there yet).

On the other hand, the best way to garner support for McDaniels is to finish with 4 or 5 wins in the last six, which likely won't happen playing youngsters and Tebow.

So, what do they do? Do what's best for the team or try and get fan support behind McDaniels again?

I saw the Fox pregame and the OP was spot on. That's exactly what was said.

As to your question, in all honesty, I would tend to be more patient with McDaniels if he would go ahead and play the young guys even if it meant more losses. At least that would give me the impression that he actually has a plan in place.

GEM
11-28-2010, 01:03 PM
Tough call, T. Even if they keep in starters and play their hardest, it's may not represent wins.

honz
11-28-2010, 01:04 PM
Sorry but that is a dick move. I had my team screw up big time before and never, never did I throw them under the bus in front of executive leadership. You tell leadership what went wrong and how you are going to fix it, you don't sacrifice everyone to make it like it not your fault.
McD has faults, but he is usually the first one to admit when his team and staff gets out-coached...and he always uses the term "we".

Mike
11-28-2010, 01:06 PM
I just hope we don't lose our first round pick because of this bullshit! Screw what happens to the coach or the staff, we need that pick!

With his drafting history...does a first round pick even matter?




I was going to post the PFT article with "don't say anything" "Jobs are on the line", but see it was already posted. I didn't watch any pregame stuff today (head in the sand approach), so thanks for the recap, Gem.

Re Tebow, I would be very surprised if we draft another QB next year. Even if there is a new HC, we've all talked about how it was likely a mistake for McD to focus on offense, rather than defense, so it's hard to imagine that he, or another HC, would draft offense early in next years draft.

Another major dilema that Broncos have is what to do the final six games.

McDaniels has now lost support among most of his most ardent supporters. In the court of public opinion, McDaniels has been tried and convicted. If the Broncos management (Mr. Bowlen and Joe Ellis) really still have faith in him, they need to win back fan support over the next six games.

Now, the 'smart' thing to do for 2011, would be to play Tebow and other youngersters to both evaluate them and get them live game experience. However, that means the Broncos likely lose most of the last 6 (let's say five, as they aren't ready to go there yet).

On the other hand, the best way to garner support for McDaniels is to finish with 4 or 5 wins in the last six, which likely won't happen playing youngsters and Tebow.

So, what do they do? Do what's best for the team or try and get fan support behind McDaniels again?

I caught the end of the CBS preshow and Cowher said that the fine should have been bigger and they should have taken draft picks. He also said that he didn't buy the story, but either way, the HC is in charge and has to take responsibility for his people. Boomer said that given what he has done W/L and trades he shouldn't feel comfortable. None of them seem like McD fans.

BroncoBJ
11-28-2010, 01:07 PM
This is off topic ... Well not really. But I'd be pissed if we drafted Luck. We've spent 2 years already going for a QB. Don't need to draft a QB in the 1st round in back to back years plus trading HIllis for a QB. :fight:

Like most people want, I'm pretty sure I want defense in the 1st this year :lol:

honz
11-28-2010, 01:08 PM
Question: What motivation does the NFL have to cover this thing up, not punish the Broncos, and let a cheating coach keep his job?

Nomad
11-28-2010, 01:10 PM
With his drafting history...does a first round pick even matter?





I caught the end of the CBS preshow and Cowher said that the fine should have been bigger and they should have taken draft picks. He also said that he didn't buy the story, but either way, the HC is in charge and has to take responsibility for his people. Boomer said that given what he has done W/L and trades he shouldn't feel comfortable. None of them seem like McD fans.

I'll take the words of guys with NFL experience on this situtation! it seems to be the consensus around the league McDaniels would have been forgiven for his first time but it's not!!

topscribe
11-28-2010, 01:10 PM
This is off topic ... Well not really. But I'd be pissed if we drafted Luck. We've spent 2 years already going for a QB. Don't need to draft a QB in the 1st round in back to back years plus trading HIllis for a QB. :fight:

Like most people want, I'm pretty sure I want defense in the 1st this year :lol:

As the Broncos should have been doing all along, as you implied . . .

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elsid13
11-28-2010, 01:15 PM
McD has faults, but he is usually the first one to admit when his team and staff gets out-coached...and he always uses the term "we".

There is difference what he say in in public forum and what he does behind close doors. It was dick move if it is true

spikerman
11-28-2010, 01:17 PM
McD has faults, but he is usually the first one to admit when his team and staff gets out-coached...and he always uses the term "we".

That could be a good thing and a bad thing. Occasionally when accepting blame he should probably use the word "I".

Denver Native (Carol)
11-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Question: What motivation does the NFL have to cover this thing up, not punish the Broncos, and let a cheating coach keep his job?

Not motivation, as much as - if the NFL is covering this thing up, how can they come down hard on anything similiar, or for that matter, come done hard on anything done that should not be done? Would this not be used as an example for any other team to lean on, if the NFL is covering this up?

GEM
11-28-2010, 01:20 PM
Question: What motivation does the NFL have to cover this thing up, not punish the Broncos, and let a cheating coach keep his job?

Why were the Patriots tapes destroyed? It destroys the NFL image for them to have these kind of allegations. Rather than face them, they'd rather manage them and brush them under the rug.

Dreadnought
11-28-2010, 01:22 PM
That could be a good thing and a bad thing. Occasionally when accepting blame he should probably use the word "I".

Usually his admissions of fault actually seem pretty passive-aggressive, weasely, and carefully parsed, to cast blame on others while ammassing credit for himself for his 'accountability.' He officially takes blame while in fact blaming everyone but himself.

I don't buy any of it.


There is difference what he say in in public forum and what he does behind close doors. It was dick move if it is true

Any so-called leader who would do this is unfit to be assistant manager of a Walgreens.

Nomad
11-28-2010, 01:22 PM
Why were the Patriots tapes destroyed? It destroys the NFL image for them to have these kind of allegations. Rather than face them, they'd rather manage them and brush them under the rug.

They have a bigger issue to worry about called the CBA.

Northman
11-28-2010, 01:22 PM
Also stated that there is animosity between McD and his assistant coaches.



Im sure Nolan would back McD up....err wait.... :lol:

Lancane
11-28-2010, 01:22 PM
Not motivation, as much as - if the NFL is covering this thing up, how can they come down hard on anything similiar, or for that matter, come done hard on anything done that should not be done? Would this not be used as an example for any other team to lean on, if the NFL is covering this up?

I'm not sure who said this...but, we do have to remember that Bowlen is a public figurehead in and around the league, with a seat on several different committee boards. It might not be so much a cover-up, but rather a distortion of facts to help one of their own. And I'm not saying that's it, but it's worth pondering.

Northman
11-28-2010, 01:25 PM
He tossed Belicheat on the floor.

According to Glazier....he had a staff meeting on Friday. He told the group that Spygate 1 was planned and practiced. This was a one time thing and that they don't do things this way here. He also told the coaches to keep their mouths shut.

Who knows if it's true, but Glazier says he is getting his info from someone inside.

Nothing to see here folks, its just an illusion.

GEM
11-28-2010, 01:26 PM
Nothing to see here folks, its just an illusion.

Yea....Glazier is pretty good with his info...he's making this all up to get him some face time. :laugh: He just saying it cause he doesn't like how McD looks in his hoodie. *giggles*

Dreadnought
11-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Why were the Patriots tapes destroyed? It destroys the NFL image for them to have these kind of allegations. Rather than face them, they'd rather manage them and brush them under the rug.

Exactly - they are protecting the Brand, i.e. the NFL. Anything that casts doubts on the integrity of the sport is a potential PR and marketing disaster. Its why the League is officially death on gambling, f'rinstance, even where gambling is legal. Even where we all know they depend on gambling in some ways to help maintain interest. Fans must believe the games are on the up and up, or it becomes the WWF.

honz
11-28-2010, 01:30 PM
I'm not sure who said this...but, we do have to remember that Bowlen is a public figurehead in and around the league, with a seat on several different committee boards. It might not be so much a cover-up, but rather a distortion of facts to help one of their own. And I'm not saying that's it, but it's worth pondering.
If Bowlen was worried about being embarrassed and believed that McD was lying, he would have fired McD as soon as he found out about the allegations in order to cover face.

...at least that is what I would do, rather than try to cover up for a guy that has coached my team for a year and a half and hasn't even been very successful at it.

Lancane
11-28-2010, 01:33 PM
Exactly - they are protecting the Brand, i.e. the NFL. Anything that casts doubts on the integrity of the sport is a potential PR and marketing disaster. Its why the League is officially death on gambling, f'rinstance, even where gambling is legal. Even where we all know they depend on gambling in some ways to help maintain interest. Fans must believe the games are on the up and up, or it becomes the WWF.

A bunch or overly rich white guys, all of whom have vested interest in some of the biggest companies in their respective industries, backing one of their own? And some are saying "Well they didn't cover up for Kraft", true...but, the evidence and proof was already out there, it made such a stink because they were winning that they couldn't really suppress it at that point.

honz
11-28-2010, 01:34 PM
Oh yeah, and several months ago when I was still driving for work, I did nothing wrong, but someone elses **** up caused us to have a safety stand down in which we all got bitched out at. In front of all of the head honchos at our company. I survived it, oddly enough.

Lancane
11-28-2010, 01:37 PM
If Bowlen was worried about being embarrassed and believed that McD was lying, he would have fired McD as soon as he found out about the allegations in order to cover face.

...at least that is what I would do, rather than try to cover up for a guy that has coached my team for a year and a half and hasn't even been very successful at it.

Bowlen is also supposedly dealing with, according to reports some sort of condition that effects him mentally. Bowlen did pipe up about this, but it's quite possible that Ellis is leading him by the leash, telling him the fallout will not be as bad as it seems to be. We really have no idea where Bowlen's own thoughts are on what's been going on.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 01:38 PM
Oh yeah, and several months ago when I was still driving for work, I did nothing wrong, but someone elses **** up caused us to have a safety stand down in which we all got bitched out at. In front of all of the head honchos at our company. I survived it, oddly enough.

True, but would you now be willing to take much safety advice from the guy who ****** up? Probably not. Much like taking coaching from a guy who's been labeled a dirtbag cheater if you're a football player I'd imagine

Northman
11-28-2010, 01:38 PM
Bowlen is also supposedly dealing with, according to reports some sort of condition that effects him mentally. Bowlen did pipe up about this, but it's quite possible that Ellis is leading him by the leash, telling him the fallout will not be as bad as it seems to be. We really have no idea where Bowlen's own thoughts are on what's been going on.

Yea, anyone who thinks Bowlen is TRULY himself is in denial. "Jay, you are our guy yet i dont remember the statement" Bowlen. :lol:

Tned
11-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Yea, anyone who thinks Bowlen is TRULY himself is in denial. "Jay, you are our guy yet i dont remember the statement" Bowlen. :lol:

Maybe so, but my impression is that Joe Ellis is running the team in line with what Bowlen has done in the past.

topscribe
11-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Yea, anyone who thinks Bowlen is TRULY himself is in denial. "Jay, you are our guy yet i dont remember the statement" Bowlen. :lol:

I thought that might have been part of the reason for Ellis . . .

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honz
11-28-2010, 01:42 PM
True, but would you now be willing to take much safety advice from the guy who ****** up? Probably not. Much like taking coaching from a guy who's been labeled a dirtbag cheater if you're a football player I'd imagine
I'm sure all of my bosses had ****** up before.

Northman
11-28-2010, 01:43 PM
Maybe so, but my impression is that Joe Ellis is running the team in line with what Bowlen has done in the past.

You mean the guy who vouched heavily for McDaniels and who will try his best to cover his ass anyway possible? Yea, i agree. Ellis is clearly taking advantage of Bowlen's health issues no doubt in my mind. Ever see that scene from Lord of the rings with evil sorceror plaguing the mind of the King? Yea, thats Ellis.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQK8DYtca5n4xDAnqSGwuq6KdXBIyJP XM5EeJyRjCsRqMvjZMR

Lancane
11-28-2010, 01:44 PM
Maybe so, but my impression is that Joe Ellis is running the team in line with what Bowlen has done in the past.

It wouldn't be the first time in history where trust was misplaced because someone claimed to share the same ideas or ideology. Ellis is after all only human, and greed or overreaching can tend to get the best of us...

Just ask Martha Stewart!

honz
11-28-2010, 01:45 PM
I don't know the whole truth either, and I know I've used some hyperbole over the past day or two, but the speculation is really getting out of hand here. Apparently our owner is now mentally incapable of running the team he has ran for years and can't even make decisions by himself.

topscribe
11-28-2010, 01:45 PM
You mean the guy who vouched heavily for McDaniels and who will try his best to cover his ass anyway possible? Yea, i agree. Ellis is clearly taking advantage of Bowlen's health issues no doubt in my mind. Ever see that scene from Lord of the rings with evil sorceror plaguing the mind of the King? Yea, thats Ellis.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQK8DYtca5n4xDAnqSGwuq6KdXBIyJP XM5EeJyRjCsRqMvjZMR

I'm suspicious of Ellis, myself. I have seen too many cases where the "right-
hand man" has assumed de facto power . . .

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Northman
11-28-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't know the whole truth either, and I know I've used some hyperbole over the past day or two, but the speculation is really getting out of hand here. Apparently our owner is now mentally incapable of running the team he has ran for years and can't even make decisions by himself.


I dont think so, Bowlen self admitted he doesnt remember every conversation he's had. And thats just within a few months. Is he completely senile? No, but it wouldnt be far fetched to say that if Bowlen is hands off and leaving it up to Ellis that Ellis isnt feeding his own machine so he doesnt lose his job.

Tned
11-28-2010, 01:56 PM
I find it ironic that with all the "benefit of the doubt" that McDaniels has gotten, that Joe Ellis isn't getting any. He has a lot to prove, but based on his public comments, he seems to "get it". Now, he has to back it up, but so far I like what I see.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 02:00 PM
I'm sure all of my bosses had ****** up before.

Of course they have, but is it a regular occurrence in which you are continuously chastised and made fun of for it - because your boss is a jackass? How many ENRON employees really wanted to admit that they were part of that quality establishment when the truth came out? This is especially pertinent if your job is so highly publicized and televised, there are 31 other companies out there you could possibly be working for (well, a couple of our players might get jobs elsewhere, but not many), and most importantly, your season is already over. You still think you'd feel the same if you worked for the Broncos?

Dzone
11-28-2010, 02:04 PM
I just hope we don't lose our first round pick because of this bullshit! Screw what happens to the coach or the staff, we need that pick!

NO doubt. that would suck. Cowher on cbs was saying "DRAFT CHOICES SHOULD BE TAKEN"...theres no guarantee mcd has a job after tomorrow. I find it hard to believe he took his whole staff in front of Bowlen and degraded them. That seems way too crazy.
I think if we fire the guy tomorrow, it will save our first round pick. Mcdaniels must be fired tomorrow, especially if he loses today. Might be cause to terminate his contract. Gosh, who could serve as interim coach?

Lancane
11-28-2010, 02:18 PM
NO doubt. that would suck. Cowher on cbs was saying "DRAFT CHOICES SHOULD BE TAKEN"...theres no guarantee mcd has a job after tomorrow. I find it hard to believe he took his whole staff in front of Bowlen and degraded them. That seems way too crazy.
I think if we fire the guy tomorrow, it will save our first round pick. Mcdaniels must be fired tomorrow, especially if he loses today. Might be cause to terminate his contract. Gosh, who could serve as interim coach?

McCoy would be named the interim head coach more then likely.

As for the whole berated issue, I can't believe it either. They didn't do it, they were not the ones guilty of this, nor are they the ones who did not take it immediately to Bowlen or Ellis. I think he's more pissed that he was ratted out, but it speaks volumes about the discord we've been hearing about in the shadows but not seeing.

scott.475
11-28-2010, 02:20 PM
I find it hard to believe he took his whole staff in front of Bowlen and degraded them. That seems way too crazy.


I don't find it hard to believe with this guy at all. He's a good salesman of his own ability, but he really is an empty suit, as is becoming more obvious every day. He is NOT a leader of people, he is a promoter of himself only. I have worked for people just like that, smart, used all the right catch phrases, blah, blah, blah. But then, when his ideas that he has asked you to implement don't work, he places the blame on you instead of thinking "OK, that idea didn't work". Yep, even got called out in front of executive staff just so that guy could cover his own back end. Now, I have no problem at all admitting my own screw ups, heck, I'll bring them up before they become known, but to get blamed for doing what your boss told you to do, then have that same boss sell you out only breeds rage and contempt among your underlings. Having one or two people under you not liking you can certainly be nothing more than personality conflicts, but if they all start turning on you that may well be more indicative of your leadership.

I wonder if his new statements about the Pats are going to open up that can of worms again? WOW.

It is a basic tenet of good management that you should praise in public and criticize in private, I knew this when I was in management at a younger age then McD, sometimes to my own detriment, but I got good work out of my people.

Oh, another thing, anyone who believes this line about McD just not giving it any thought because it was just another one of the dozens of things a coach has to deal with on a daily basis is out of their mind. It is not like we are talking about some guy who was in high school when Spygate I happened, this is freakin' Josh McDaniels who was knee deep in that. His response shouldn't have been "Oh crap, just delete the film", it should have been "You ass! Don't you know what this could do to us? You are relieved of your duties for now, leave all your stuff in your office and leave the facility.' NOTHING about this passes the smell test, I can't imagine he actually survives this, just piss poor judgement.

Dzone
11-28-2010, 02:21 PM
With his drafting history...does a first round pick even matter?





I caught the end of the CBS preshow and Cowher said that the fine should have been bigger and they should have taken draft picks. He also said that he didn't buy the story, but either way, the HC is in charge and has to take responsibility for his people. Boomer said that given what he has done W/L and trades he shouldn't feel comfortable. None of them seem like McD fans.
Boomer ripped Mcdaniels for mistakes like drafting Tim Tebow! Oh man...I feel bad for Tebow. I hope his His era here isnt tainted because of Mcdaniels,

topscribe
11-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Boomer ripped Mcdaniels for mistakes like drafting Tim Tebow! Oh man...I feel bad for Tebow. I hope his His era here isnt tainted because of Mcdaniels,

McDaniels ought to be ripped for that. He sacrificed several defensive players
to get him. The team is 3-7 because of lack of defensive talent, and we still
don't know whether Tebow will ever make it . . .

-----

Tned
11-28-2010, 02:24 PM
Boomer ripped Mcdaniels for mistakes like drafting Tim Tebow! Oh man...I feel bad for Tebow. I hope his His era here isnt tainted because of Mcdaniels,

If he performs on the field, once given a chance, then nothing that happens with McDaniels will taint his time here. On the other hand, if Tebow is a bust on the field, that will further tain McDaniels era in Denver.

Nomad
11-28-2010, 02:28 PM
NO doubt. that would suck. Cowher on cbs was saying "DRAFT CHOICES SHOULD BE TAKEN"...theres no guarantee mcd has a job after tomorrow. I find it hard to believe he took his whole staff in front of Bowlen and degraded them. That seems way too crazy.
I think if we fire the guy tomorrow, it will save our first round pick. Mcdaniels must be fired tomorrow, especially if he loses today. Might be cause to terminate his contract. Gosh, who could serve as interim coach?

It won't get to this point Dzone!! NFL is done with it and when the BRONCOS blowout the Rams today, Dove Valley will say "what spygate"!! McDaniels gets away with another one!!

Dzone
11-28-2010, 02:29 PM
I wonder if his new statements about the Pats are going to open up that can of worms again? WOW.
This is going to open lots of cans of worms...This is going to be major news and Mcd may be exposed as a cheater...The franchise can save face by firing him now.wow..how ironic, the guy who preferred drafting boy scouts.

When this came down, I would have voted against firing him. Now, a day later, I am definitely on the FIRE MCDANIELS train..the guys a jerk....You would think he would learn how stupid he looks in the newpsaper with his lips pressed together all the time. Geezo, that bad habit and his fingernail chewing during games are wearing thin on bronco fans.

Dzone
11-28-2010, 02:32 PM
It won't get to this point Dzone!! NFL is done with it and when the BRONCOS blowout the Rams today, Dove Valley will say "what spygate"!! McDaniels gets away with another one!!

Hope youre right. Amazing what winning does to the atmosphere in this state. Just win, man. Thats it.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 02:33 PM
I find it ironic that with all the "benefit of the doubt" that McDaniels has gotten, that Joe Ellis isn't getting any. He has a lot to prove, but based on his public comments, he seems to "get it". Now, he has to back it up, but so far I like what I see.

Ellis would get a lot more BOD from me if he'd realize what's happening in Denver and do something about it. If he's positive that McDouchebag is the guy for the future, then he needs to realize that we need to hire a real GM and strip McDingleberry of some of his extraneous powers that don't include coaching.

Right now, he's the biggest McDickwad apologist of the bunch. He knows that this coach is HIS coach and will deflect, defend, and prop him up until the time comes (I think it's already here, personally) when he can't, in good conscience, continue to allow the franchise to move in this direction.

Nomad
11-28-2010, 02:34 PM
Hope youre right. Amazing what winning does to the atmosphere in this state. Just win, man. Thats it.

state of Colorado needs a win today especially after the Buffs performance yesterday!!

scott.475
11-28-2010, 02:34 PM
I can't believe the term "Spygate II" is attached to our Broncos. What sad times for Bronco nation :tsk:

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 02:37 PM
McDaniels ought to be ripped for that. He sacrificed several defensive players
to get him. The team is 3-7 because of lack of defensive talent, and we still
don't know whether Tebow will ever make it . . .

-----

And offensive production. Finding the endzone for this offense has been just as challenging as stopping the run this season. McDaniels calls the offense. I think the offensive talent is better than is given credit for, but the playcalling sucks.

Nomad
11-28-2010, 02:37 PM
I can't believe the term "Spygate II" is attached to our Broncos. What sad times for Bronco nation :tsk:

It doesn't sit well with me either. After all the crap we gave the Patriots years ago and now we're in the same boat!!

Tned
11-28-2010, 02:39 PM
Ellis would get a lot more BOD from me if he'd realize what's happening in Denver and do something about it. If he's positive that McDouchebag is the guy for the future, then he needs to realize that we need to hire a real GM and strip McDingleberry of some of his extraneous powers that don't include coaching.

Right now, he's the biggest McDickwad apologist of the bunch. He knows that this coach is HIS coach and will deflect, defend, and prop him up until the time comes (I think it's already here, personally) when he can't, in good conscience, continue to allow the franchise to move in this direction.

Sorry, I got lost with all the McFunnyNamesHere...

Lancane
11-28-2010, 02:41 PM
It won't get to this point Dzone!! NFL is done with it and when the BRONCOS blowout the Rams today, Dove Valley will say "what spygate"!! McDaniels gets away with another one!!

I don't think so Nomad, not this time...it's obvious there is descension among the ranks, and with so much of shit coming to light? I don't think a win will balm the wounds as it has in the past.

scott.475
11-28-2010, 02:43 PM
Hope youre right. Amazing what winning does to the atmosphere in this state. Just win, man. Thats it.

I would like to win, but won't really get excited over beating the Rams to tell you the truth. I think our season is history, and I hate saying that.

A couple days ago we were watching a show called "Alone in the Wild". It was several one hour episodes of a guy who was trying to live three months in the remote Yukon with now outside support. He carried his own cameras and really had no outside help, kind of a "Survivorman", but over three months instead of just a week. As he got the the midway point he was really losing it because he just couldn't find any food. He was going through these wild mood swings, just total depression and despair because he wasn't finding any food, then he would finally catch a fish and eat it, which made him feel great for a day, he even said it made him feel like the luckiest man alive to be out there in the beauty, etc. But a day later he was starving again, was depressed, was hating being there, etc. My point is, all a win today does is give us a fish for the day, which will make us fill good because we have some food in our bellies, but the fact is we are still starving. I don't want to be starving as a Bronco fan any more.

Nomad
11-28-2010, 02:45 PM
I don't think so Nomad, not this time...it's obvious there is descension among the ranks, and with so much of shit coming to light? I don't think a win will balm the wounds as it has in the past.

I'm not talking amongst the fans, but the FO of Dove Valley! I believe the players play for their pride and get a big win today then again they get paid whether they win or lose, so if they have given up on McDaniels it will show!

Buff
11-28-2010, 02:46 PM
I would like to win, but won't really get excited over beating the Rams to tell you the truth. I think our season is history, and I hate saying that.

A couple days ago we were watching a show called "Alone in the Wild". It was several one hour episodes of a guy who was trying to live three months in the remote Yukon with now outside support. He carried his own cameras and really had no outside help, kind of a "Survivorman", but over three months instead of just a week. As he got the the midway point he was really losing it because he just couldn't find any food. He was going through these wild mood swings, just total depression and despair because he wasn't finding any food, then he would finally catch a fish and eat it, which made him feel great for a day, he even said it made him feel like the luckiest man alive to be out there in the beauty, etc. But a day later he was starving again, was depressed, was hating being there, etc. My point is, all a win today does is give us a fish for the day, which will make us fill good because we have some food in our bellies, but the fact is we are still starving. I don't want to be starving as a Bronco fan any more.

That was a good show... Too bad that jackass kid from "Into the Wild" didn't watch that show before he tried to go live alone in the Alaskan wilderness.

scott.475
11-28-2010, 02:47 PM
Too bad greasy Al used the phrase "He wasn't the guy I thought he was" a few years ago with Lane Kiffin. It would be SO much more fitting for Pat to use it today than it was then.

scott.475
11-28-2010, 02:48 PM
That was a good show... Too bad that jackass kid from "Into the Wild" didn't watch that show before he tried to go live alone in the Alaskan wilderness.

That guy was an idiot, too bad he has such a cult following because he really didn't know what he was doing. Totally off-topic, but oh well. The old PBS "Alone in the Wilderness" was pretty good too. That guy was hardcore for an old guy.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 02:51 PM
Sorry, I got lost with all the McFunnyNamesHere...

Sorry about all that, but I get wrapped up in it. I feel calling him by his given name gives too much respect to a guy who showed none for his boss, his players and the fans. In trying to cover for his video tape buddy, he showed he doesn't care about the aforementioned people at all.

I officially hate him and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

Tned
11-28-2010, 02:54 PM
Sorry about all that, but I get wrapped up in it. I feel calling him by his given name gives too much respect to a guy who showed none for his boss, his players and the fans. In trying to cover for his video tape buddy, he showed he doesn't care about the aforementioned people at all.

I officially hate him and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

You could go McD style, like with Cutler being "The Player", and refer to him as "The Coach" or "The HC".

It's just a personal pet peeve of mine. I think it diminishes otherwise good arguments. Hey, but each to their own. Nothing in the rules against it, just a pet peeve of mine and some others.

scott.475
11-28-2010, 02:54 PM
I officially hate him and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

I would, 'cause then I could say "I pissed on Josh McDaniels":D

Tned
11-28-2010, 02:55 PM
I officially hate him and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

P.S. On a personal note, I think this is reprehensible. I know we are ALL passionate about our Broncos football, but come on there are lines....

topscribe
11-28-2010, 02:57 PM
If he performs on the field, once given a chance, then nothing that happens with McDaniels will taint his time here. On the other hand, if Tebow is a bust on the field, that will further tain McDaniels era in Denver.

It seems that is the case with either Tebow or Orton. They are both "McD's
boys." If one declines, the other had better achieve stardom.

The Tebow deal goes without saying. Regarding the Cutler trade, Orton is all
McD has to hang his hat on. Smith is gone, and, while Ayers seems to be
coming on, a linebacker does not a quarterback make. Complicating that deal
is the Pro Bowler Johnny Knox, whom Chicago snagged with Denver's 5th
round selection from the deal. And now Cutler is making a whole lot of noise,
threatening to fulfill the potential they saw in him.

So, if Tebow doesn't make it, then Orton had better keep getting better
and playing lights out. If Orton declines, then Tebow had better tear the
league up with his future play . . . and maybe not-so-distant future.

McDaniels is in a tough spot, and this isn't helping him at the moment . . .

-----

elsid13
11-28-2010, 03:01 PM
P.S. On a personal note, I think this is reprehensible. I know we are ALL passionate about our Broncos football, but come on there are lines....

So you would piss on McDaniels? :D

Tned
11-28-2010, 03:02 PM
So you would piss on McDaniels? :D

I would piss on Al Davis if he was on fire...

topscribe
11-28-2010, 03:03 PM
So you would piss on McDaniels? :D

Can't speak for T, but I would only if McD got in the way.

I won't turn around and piss up-wind for anybody . . .

-----

cardoso
11-28-2010, 03:18 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/28/report-mcdaniels-explains-to-coaching-staff-differences-between-spygate-i-and-ii/

Posted by Mike Florio on November 28, 2010, 12:24 PM EST


Former Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels has managed to maintain a good relationship with his former boss, Patriots coach Bill Belichick.

Until now.

Jay Glazer of FOX reports that McDaniels met with his staff on Friday to explain the circumstances surrounding Spygate II, which supposedly arose from the one-time-only videotaping of a 49ers’ walk-through practice by a rogue video operator, Steve Scarnecchia. And McDaniels distinguished the situation from the original Spygate, which arose apparently from years of videotaping of in-game defensive coaching signals.

“That was practiced, that was coached, that was worked on,” McDaniels said in reference to the Patriots’ past practices, per Glazer.

McDaniels also warned his staff to keep their mouths shut. “If this gets out, there are jobs on the line,” McDaniels told the staff, per Glazer.

So why did it get out? It possibly had something to do with the fact that, after the 59-14 loss to the Raiders, McDaniels took the staff to owner Pat Bowlen and lambasted them, according to Glazer.

Glazer also reports that there are “raised eyebrows” in the facility, based on the perception that McDaniels threw Scarnecchia under the bus. Which implies that there’s a belief within the organization that, while McDaniels and Scarnecchia didn’t get their stories together after the fact, they possibly got their stories together before the fact.

Indeed, the sense remains that, even though McDaniels claims he didn’t watch the tape and that Scarnecchia acted alone, Scarnecchia was the Dawson and/or Downey in this situation, and McDaniels ordered the Code Red. (Hat tip to FNIA producer Joe Gesue for that one.)

scott.475
11-28-2010, 03:26 PM
I am just finishing "Death in the Long Grass" by Capstick. He relates a story of of a guy getting spit in the face with venom from a spitting viper. One of the tribesmen Capstick used as staff threw the guy to the ground, straddled him and urinated on his face and into his eyes to wash away the venom. It worked, as they guy's eyesight returned to normal after a week or so. Sounds gross, but you do what you gotta do.

Anyway, back to the regular programming of what an idiot, juvenile coach has done to our wonderful franchise.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-28-2010, 03:32 PM
Ugh god help our organization with this crap floating around

Lancane
11-28-2010, 03:37 PM
Ugh god help our organization with this crap floating around

Actually it's not floating...it's overflowing. Glazier is one of the most respected in the business, and according to him there is descension among the ranks of the coaching staff especially.

I can't wait to see what's next, may be Bowlen will sell the Broncos to Barnum & Bailey's Circus, after all the is pretty much being ran by a clown right now.

spikerman
11-28-2010, 03:40 PM
If any of you knew what I looked like I would ask you to picture me sitting here with a shocked look on my face. /sarc

BigDaddyBronco
11-28-2010, 03:44 PM
In other breaking news.... Jay Glazier has identified the 2nd shooter behind the grassy knoll.

Lancane
11-28-2010, 03:45 PM
If any of you knew what I looked like I would ask you to picture me sitting here with a shocked look on my face. /sarc


http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/399579/clown-college.jpg
It's where Josh McDaniels learned all he needed to know about football!

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 03:46 PM
If any of you knew what I looked like I would ask you to picture me sitting here with a shocked look on my face. /sarc

Let me guess, are you wearing a black and white striped shirt? :D

Lancane
11-28-2010, 03:47 PM
In other breaking news.... Jay Glazier has identified the 2nd shooter behind the grassy knoll.

So, he's not credible enough...even though he's highly respected by his peers and the general public?

scott.475
11-28-2010, 03:49 PM
If any of you knew what I looked like I would ask you to picture me sitting here with a shocked look on my face. /sarc

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/846237_f260.jpg

spikerman
11-28-2010, 03:51 PM
Let me guess, are you wearing a black and white striped shirt? :D

hahahahaahahaha... not today, although supposedly it IS slimming. :)

spikerman
11-28-2010, 03:52 PM
http://s2.hubimg.com/u/846237_f260.jpg

Lucky guess.

scott.475
11-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Lucky guess.

I have my good days...

BigDaddyBronco
11-28-2010, 03:53 PM
So, he's not credible enough...even though he's highly respected by his peers and the general public?
He's as credible as any reporter in this mess. I'm just not a big conspiracy theory believer.

I guess if most of this is true and Bowlen doesn't fire McDaniels, then he is in on it as well?

spikerman
11-28-2010, 03:55 PM
I have my good days...

I just want to know why you have that picture readily available! :shocked:

Lancane
11-28-2010, 03:56 PM
He's as credible as any reporter in this mess. I'm just not a big conspiracy theory believer.

I guess if most of this is true and Bowlen doesn't fire McDaniels, then he is in on it as well?

Bowlen is possibly senile...but on the other hand Ellis! :D

scott.475
11-28-2010, 03:57 PM
I just want to know why you have that picture readily available! :shocked:

No joke, Googled "shocked face" and it came up. The smudged lipstick is the most disturbing thing I think, and there is a lot to be disturbed about :shudder:

Dean
11-28-2010, 09:53 PM
For those who missed the pregame show, here is the video clip of it.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/page/nfl-weekly-review-2010?GT1=39002

It is the bottom video #5.

Broncos Mtnman
11-28-2010, 10:58 PM
Sorry but that is a dick move. I had my team screw up big time before and never, never did I throw them under the bus in front of executive leadership. You tell leadership what went wrong and how you are going to fix it, you don't sacrifice everyone to make it like it not your fault.

Mickey does.

:coffee:

Broncos Mtnman
11-28-2010, 11:03 PM
That isn't far from reach, sad to say. My question is what do we do with Tebow at that point?

Convert him to a safety.

Convert him to a LB.

Convert him to a FB.

Trade him.

Anything but let him be the QB.

:coffee:

Broncos Mtnman
11-28-2010, 11:12 PM
It won't get to this point Dzone!! NFL is done with it and when the BRONCOS blowout the Rams today, Dove Valley will say "what spygate"!! McDaniels gets away with another one!!

As soon as WHO blows out WHOM?

:coffee:

Tned
11-29-2010, 12:21 AM
For those who missed the pregame show, here is the video clip of it.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/page/nfl-weekly-review-2010?GT1=39002

It is the bottom video #5.

Worth watching, if you haven't already. If Glazer is right, there could be some heat left.

Also, it might have been mentioned earlier in this thread, but he explains who came forward, which was nobody. An NFL employee saw the video taping when it was being done at Wembley.

BroncoStud
11-29-2010, 12:52 AM
Gotta fire his ass after this, no excuses. No way can you allow McDaniels to keep his job after the mess he has created.

Bosco
11-29-2010, 04:24 AM
Fox Sports is to sports what Fox News is to news...opinionated, hyperbolic hysteria. The official NFL report specifically indicated that there was no possible way for McDaniels and Scarnecchia to have collaborated on their story during the investigation and that the Broncos were the ones to inform them of the issue, so unless you believe the NFL is lying, that part is pretty much bunk. I also love how he claims there is animosity between Josh and his assistant coaches, yet apparently every single one of them lied for him (jeopardizing their own careers) during an official NFL investigation where they were guaranteed anonymity.

About the journalistic integrity I'd expect out of a national drama mill.

TimTebow15MVP
11-29-2010, 05:37 AM
You can believe this dumb shit if you want. The league has already spoken so if anybody else wants to assume things then so be it. they only make themselves look bad.