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TimTebow15MVP
11-27-2010, 10:15 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/27/nfl-broncos-say-steve-scarnecchia-acted-alone/


mcdaniels only fault is not reporting it tto management sooner. If he wanted to get away with it hed never reported it. So some of you need to stop the madness. Mcdaniels is getting fired but hes not a cheater. The nfl agrees that it was indeed and one man show. mcdaniels only got fined for not reporting it sooner. the guy is fired. move on.

Northman
11-27-2010, 10:20 PM
Actually, there was a third party that reported it, not McD.

TXBRONC
11-27-2010, 10:23 PM
He didn't report it he was outed by a whistle blower that has already been established.
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TimTebow15MVP
11-27-2010, 10:25 PM
established by whom? the NFL says that the broncos management are the ones who told them. so what are you two fellas talking about? are you really prepared to tell Pash that he didnt get a call from joe ellis?

Northman
11-27-2010, 10:33 PM
established by whom? the NFL says that the broncos management are the ones who told them. so what are you two fellas talking about? are you really prepared to tell Pash that he didnt get a call from joe ellis?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/27/did-a-broncos-employee-blow-the-whistle-on-mcdaniels/


Based on some of the buzz words used by both men, it appears that someone within the Broncos organization blew the whistle on Steve Scarnecchia’s unilateral (supposedly) activities and coach Josh McDaniels’ decision to move forward without reporting the incident to his supervisors or to the league.


And the identity of the persons(s) who told Ellis and/or Bowlen won’t be disclosed by the team or the league.

TXBRONC
11-27-2010, 10:34 PM
established by whom? the NFL says that the broncos management are the ones who told them. so what are you two fellas talking about? are you really prepared to tell Pash that he didnt get a call from joe ellis?

You just done saying that it was McDaniels that came forward the fact is he didn't someone in the organization outed him. Once the whistle blower told Bowlen or Ellis or both then they went to NFL with information.
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BeefStew25
11-27-2010, 10:36 PM
Bowlen and Ellis are stand up guys. Below them, not so much.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-27-2010, 10:37 PM
When Mr. Bowlen and team executives were notified of the incident, the team launched an investigation and notified the league office on Nov. 12.

Broncos executives, including Mr. Bowlen, met with NFL staff in New York to discuss the violation on Nov. 16, and NFL Security launched its own investigation, traveling to Denver to interview Broncos personnel on Nov. 18 and 19 and arrange a forensic analysis of the laptop computers used by the video department.

"I think from the perspective of the Commissioner's Office, the incident is obviously unfortunate, but there is, as in most unfortunate things, something positive to point to -- and that is mainly that the Denver Broncos, their ownership and their executives had their moral compass pointing in the right direction," NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash said. "They followed the rules, they adhered to the policy, they came forward promptly and reported the violation and then we began our investigation promptly thereafter. They were fully cooperative and I think they've set an example as to how incidents of this type are properly handled. I think from now on, while nobody is happy with this kind of an event, I think everyone can take a step back and say, 'Well, when the team became aware of it, they did the right thing.' Hopefully we won't have repeats of these kinds of incidents, but if we do, I hope that clubs will conduct themselves the way the Broncos did over the past few weeks."

In a letter to Mr. Bowlen, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell commended the Broncos for providing "exemplary assistance to our investigators." He then went over the timeline of the events as discovered through the investigation.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Broncos-Disclose-Violation/7937342e-3344-4159-aead-35ad4f30f157

honz
11-27-2010, 10:39 PM
So, the NFL, Bowlen, and Ellis are all happy with the Broncos'/McD's story and back it up. Apparently they are all lying. Just saying.

TimTebow15MVP
11-27-2010, 10:42 PM
Ohhhh okay you guys are saying that somebody other than mcdaniels reported the information to pat and joe ellis? wow thats terrible i thought i read that mcdaniels reported it but reported it late.......

well damn so was mcd ever going to say anything? Makes you wonder........Welp its safe to say that mcd is going to get fired. even though i beleiev mcd didnt use the tapes he still shoulda ratted the guy out rather than risk losing us a first round pick and fines.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-27-2010, 10:42 PM
You just done saying that it was McDaniels that came forward the fact is he didn't someone in the organization outed him. Once the whistle blower told Bowlen or Ellis or both then they went to NFL with information.
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Has that been proven as fact that it was a whistle blower? Not questioning the validity of your post, I just had not heard that.

TXBRONC
11-27-2010, 10:43 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Broncos-Disclose-Violation/7937342e-3344-4159-aead-35ad4f30f157

Are you trying say this backs the notion that McDaniels is the one came forward with information?
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TXBRONC
11-27-2010, 10:46 PM
Has that been proven as fact that it was a whistle blower? Not questioning the validity of your post, I just had not heard that.

Yes it has. Just look at North's post and link and that's not the only source available.
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Denver Native (Carol)
11-27-2010, 10:47 PM
Are you trying say this backs the notion that McDaniels is the one came forward with information?
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I posted part of the article on the official Broncos site. Don't think I mentioned anything as to who came forward with information. I will be the first to admit that I certainly am not one who has "inside information".

TimTebow15MVP
11-27-2010, 10:47 PM
Has that been proven as fact that it was a whistle blower? Not questioning the validity of your post, I just had not heard that.

me either...

jhildebrand
11-27-2010, 10:59 PM
McDaniels reported it to Ellis. His responsibility was to go straight to the league for the obvious reasons. Furthermore, it appears clear that McDaniels only reported it, seeing how 9 days had passed, because he knew it was about to get away from him.

jhildebrand
11-27-2010, 10:59 PM
As to the OP the NFL is going to gloss over this at this point for the very obvious reasons. . Denver sucks and they don't want this story to gain any more traction. If you can't see that than I don't know what to tell you.

SR
11-27-2010, 11:00 PM
Welp its safe to say that mcd is going to get fired.

No it isn't. Where the hell do you get your opinions from? The clearance aisle of Walmart? Jesus...

Tned
11-27-2010, 11:01 PM
Ohhhh okay you guys are saying that somebody other than mcdaniels reported the information to pat and joe ellis? wow thats terrible i thought i read that mcdaniels reported it but reported it late.......

well damn so was mcd ever going to say anything? Makes you wonder........Welp its safe to say that mcd is going to get fired. even though i beleiev mcd didnt use the tapes he still shoulda ratted the guy out rather than risk losing us a first round pick and fines.

They have not said who told the Broncos execs. The NFL exec said they wouldn't reveal the person's name per league anonymity policy in these types of situations.

So, on the one hand you would have to ask why does the anonymity of the person need to be protected if it's McDaniels. On the other hand they have said nobody else in the Broncos organization knew about it, so if that is 'accurate' then McDaniels must have eventually come clean.

We really just have no way of knowing if McDaniels brought it up after 8 days, or if someone else came forward.

TXBRONC
11-27-2010, 11:07 PM
McDaniels reported it to Ellis. His responsibility was to go straight to the league for the obvious reasons. Furthermore, it appears clear that McDaniels only reported it, seeing how 9 days had passed, because he knew it was about to get away from him.

Maybe I have read it wrong but a couple of different sources indicated that someone outed McDaniels before he came forward.
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GEM
11-28-2010, 10:07 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/27/nfl-broncos-say-steve-scarnecchia-acted-alone/


mcdaniels only fault is not reporting it tto management sooner. If he wanted to get away with it hed never reported it. So some of you need to stop the madness. Mcdaniels is getting fired but hes not a cheater. The nfl agrees that it was indeed and one man show. mcdaniels only got fined for not reporting it sooner. the guy is fired. move on.

He never did report it....someone else did. He left it out there to damage the franchise. Someone else blew the whistle, saving our first round pick. ;)

In Joe Ellis' conference call, he stated that Josh wasn't aware that he needed to report it, that he didn't know the rule. ( :rolleyes: ) McDaniels himself apologized for not reporting it. He was fined for not reporting it. Pretty logical to say...someone else within the team reported it knowing the rules involved. Which is another tarnish on McDaniels....what NFL coach doesn't know all the rules they are supposed to live by, especially ones that can cost the team money and draft picks. I might just be guessing here, but this wasn't McDaniels first ride in the cheating rodeo...just a guess here, but I would imagine Goodell made it damn clear what was considered breaking the rules and what you should do if you see it happening when he came down on the Pats. So tell me again McDaniels, that you had no idea what you were supposed to do in the situation.

CoachChaz
11-28-2010, 10:26 AM
It's pretty clear that no one can discuss this situation for what it is without allowing prior hatred for McDaniels to spill into it. Sad really

GEM
11-28-2010, 10:36 AM
It's hard to look at one event and not base opinions around ALL of the events. If this were one single event and based on what has been released by the Broncos and the NFL perhaps not a huge deal. BUT based on all the different events and the feeling that McDaniels is not being completely honest and him not knowing NFL rules, it's a bit shady. So your right, Coach. Not many people are basing this on this single event, but I also wouldn't say it's based on hate. It's based on his actions.

CoachChaz
11-28-2010, 10:40 AM
It's hard to look at one event and not base opinions around ALL of the events. If this were one single event and based on what has been released by the Broncos and the NFL perhaps not a huge deal. BUT based on all the different events and the feeling that McDaniels is not being completely honest and him not knowing NFL rules, it's a bit shady. So your right, Coach. Not many people are basing this on this single event, but I also wouldn't say it's based on hate. It's based on his actions.

...which have created a hatred for some. No one likes the state of the Broncos today and no one can deny that McDaniels should be on a very short leash. But to create a double standard for a single event BECAUSE of feelings about a person is pretty narrow minded. It's not any different than treating every black person you meet with hostility because you were beat up by a black guy in high school.

turftoad
11-28-2010, 10:41 AM
It's pretty clear that no one can discuss this situation for what it is without allowing prior hatred for McDaniels to spill into it. Sad really

Well it is what it is Coach. I think it's the last straw with most of the fan base. The Broncos have been in the National negative spotlight ever since McD was put on as head coach.

This is what is really sad.

GEM
11-28-2010, 10:48 AM
...which have created a hatred for some. No one likes the state of the Broncos today and no one can deny that McDaniels should be on a very short leash. But to create a double standard for a single event BECAUSE of feelings about a person is pretty narrow minded. It's not any different than treating every black person you meet with hostility because you were beat up by a black guy in high school.

As I have continually said...this event is not the reason I don't want him employed by the Broncos. I jumped off his bandwagon last week after the Chargers loss. Up to that point, I made excuse after excuse for the guy, because for me, you should always stand behind your coach. But when your coach is an abysmal failure, there is no reason to stand behind him. At some point, I put my team above him.

CoachChaz
11-28-2010, 10:55 AM
Well it is what it is Coach. I think it's the last straw with most of the fan base. The Broncos have been in the National negative spotlight ever since McD was put on as head coach.

This is what is really sad.

I'm not denying any of that Todd. What bugs me is that people would completely ignore this issue if we were winning games...but since we're not...it gets used as additional fuel to the fire. It's a double standard.

If he hasnt been fired already for the things he's done, then why should something that isnt a fireable offense be the straw that broke the camels back?

Suppose you and a co-worker did something punishable. It was your first "offense" and just one more thing to add to the other guys list. As a result, he gets fired and you dont. Is that fair? If he wasnt fired for the things he did in the past, why should he be held to a different standard this time for an offense that typically wouldnt result in a firing?

I'm not defending McD on this issue or anything else he's done in the past and if he is fired after this season, then he's probably earned it. I just dont see why something that didnt cost us a draft pick or hurt the team in any way should suddenly be considered a reason for firing a guy because he's been unsuccessful thus far

CoachChaz
11-28-2010, 10:57 AM
As I have continually said...this event is not the reason I don't want him employed by the Broncos. I jumped off his bandwagon last week after the Chargers loss. Up to that point, I made excuse after excuse for the guy, because for me, you should always stand behind your coach. But when your coach is an abysmal failure, there is no reason to stand behind him. At some point, I put my team above him.

Fair enough...but the consistent sentiment here is that "it's one more reason"to fire him. I just dont get that

Ravage!!!
11-28-2010, 10:59 AM
McDaniels reported it to Ellis. His responsibility was to go straight to the league for the obvious reasons. Furthermore, it appears clear that McDaniels only reported it, seeing how 9 days had passed, because he knew it was about to get away from him.

This isn't fact, jhil... this is just one scenario. But I think it would come out very quickly that McD came forward first...even if late, had it been him.

Now.... I won't be shocked if they spin it that way to get the public off his ass. But I don't believe, for a moment, that it was McD that came forward 9 days late. Why would he do it now and not before? He thought it was deleted and over with.

McD learned from Belicheck. Did Belicheck ever 'admit' to cheating?

honz
11-28-2010, 11:00 AM
I'm not denying any of that Todd. What bugs me is that people would completely ignore this issue if we were winning games...but since we're not...it gets used as additional fuel to the fire. It's a double standard.

If he hasnt been fired already for the things he's done, then why should something that isnt a fireable offense be the straw that broke the camels back?

Suppose you and a co-worker did something punishable. It was your first "offense" and just one more thing to add to the other guys list. As a result, he gets fired and you dont. Is that fair? If he wasnt fired for the things he did in the past, why should he be held to a different standard this time for an offense that typically wouldnt result in a firing?

I'm not defending McD on this issue or anything else he's done in the past and if he is fired after this season, then he's probably earned it. I just dont see why something that didnt cost us a draft pick or hurt the team in any way should suddenly be considered a reason for firing a guy because he's been unsuccessful thus far
Ummmm.........because McDouchebag sucks!

GEM
11-28-2010, 11:02 AM
I'm not denying any of that Todd. What bugs me is that people would completely ignore this issue if we were winning games...but since we're not...it gets used as additional fuel to the fire. It's a double standard.

If he hasnt been fired already for the things he's done, then why should something that isnt a fireable offense be the straw that broke the camels back?

Suppose you and a co-worker did something punishable. It was your first "offense" and just one more thing to add to the other guys list. As a result, he gets fired and you dont. Is that fair? If he wasnt fired for the things he did in the past, why should he be held to a different standard this time for an offense that typically wouldnt result in a firing?

I'm not defending McD on this issue or anything else he's done in the past and if he is fired after this season, then he's probably earned it. I just dont see why something that didnt cost us a draft pick or hurt the team in any way should suddenly be considered a reason for firing a guy because he's been unsuccessful thus far

Yes the firing would be fair because it shows a pattern. You used the same example just in the use of the legal system to which I showed a specific example of why it makes the treatment of different people allowable.

Ravage!!!
11-28-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm not denying any of that Todd. What bugs me is that people would completely ignore this issue if we were winning games...but since we're not...it gets used as additional fuel to the fire. It's a double standard.



I think you are pushing that too far. THere were already a lot of reasons to fire him. This just adds onto the PILE. SO yeah, he's judged on the BODY of work, and when you keep adding on to that body of work, there just comes yet another reason.

How many negatives can one guy have/get before it pushes it over the edge?

If he had a bunch of positives, then the negative would be outweighed.... thats just reality. But that hasn't been the case.

People wouldn't "completely" ignore this issue if we were winning. If we were winning, then the coach would have shown more positives than negatives. No ONE event/action would get him fired. But really, if you just keep adding more weight to the camel, it will break.

turftoad
11-28-2010, 11:04 AM
I'm not denying any of that Todd. What bugs me is that people would completely ignore this issue if we were winning games...but since we're not...it gets used as additional fuel to the fire. It's a double standard.

If he hasnt been fired already for the things he's done, then why should something that isnt a fireable offense be the straw that broke the camels back?

Suppose you and a co-worker did something punishable. It was your first "offense" and just one more thing to add to the other guys list. As a result, he gets fired and you dont. Is that fair? If he wasnt fired for the things he did in the past, why should he be held to a different standard this time for an offense that typically wouldnt result in a firing?

I'm not defending McD on this issue or anything else he's done in the past and if he is fired after this season, then he's probably earned it. I just dont see why something that didnt cost us a draft pick or hurt the team in any way should suddenly be considered a reason for firing a guy because he's been unsuccessful thus far

If someone is a continual trouble maker with no quality reason for getting fired for the first, second or third offense, so be it. But once the forth offense happens, it's time to cut losses.
It's time to cut losses before the fifth offense happens.

McD only needs to look in the mirror as far as thats concerned. Brandon Marshall comes to mind. If he wasn't a continuos trouble maker he'd probably still be in a Broncos uniform.
Things pile up.

Ravage!!!
11-28-2010, 11:08 AM
Suppose you and a co-worker did something punishable. It was your first "offense" and just one more thing to add to the other guys list. As a result, he gets fired and you dont. Is that fair? If he wasnt fired for the things he did in the past, why should he be held to a different standard this time for an offense that typically wouldnt result in a firing?




Coach, will all do respect... I don't know where you have worked or been through your life. Everyone is judged on first offenses vs continued problems. Criminals get THREE strikes. People that have committed a crime for the first time get MUCH more leniency than those that have continued to commit crimes.

People at work generally are treated differently if they've made mistakes over and over, than those that have commited just ONE mistake. Why, as an employer, would I treat ONE employee the same as the next, if one is continued to do wrong compared to the one that made one slip-up?

Even THEN... wouldn't the management know the individuals employed, and judge/treat them from what they know of them as a person? Thats just reality and natural.

Slick
11-28-2010, 11:10 AM
I get your point Coach but I still cant fault people for feeling like this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I prepared myself for bad/mediocre before the season even started but it still doesn't make any of this any easier to swallow.

BroncoJoe
11-28-2010, 11:21 AM
So, the NFL and the Broncos fully investigated the incident and found McDaniels story to be true.

Yet, people are still calling for his head over this.

Ravage!!!
11-28-2010, 11:23 AM
So, the NFL and the Broncos fully investigated the incident and found McDaniels story to be true.

Yet, people are still calling for his head over this.

Nope.......

turftoad
11-28-2010, 11:25 AM
So, the NFL and the Broncos fully investigated the incident and found McDaniels story to be true.

Yet, people are still calling for his head over this.

Hi Joe, good to see you also.

I don't think we've seen the last of this yet.

McD did hire the guy knowing full well his history. Sounds like it was his buddy. If it is over, he still needs to take responsibilty for that.

GEM
11-28-2010, 11:27 AM
So, the NFL and the Broncos fully investigated the incident and found McDaniels story to be true.

Yet, people are still calling for his head over this.

Are ya'll choosing to make that your issue or have you read the last couple pages? :confused:

Most have said this incident alone is NOT the cause. People are calling for his head because of his personnel decisions, his losing record and for their feeling that he isn't full of the character and integrity that he has based his entire coaching strategy on.

Most have said that it's just ANOTHER notch on his otherwise messy tenure.

Some have said that this is just the latest in a line that finally has them fed up and ready for a coaching change.

Show me ONE person who was on McDaniels side who just up and changed their mind based on this ONE incident.

BroncoJoe
11-28-2010, 11:30 AM
Hi Joe, good to see you also.

I don't think we've seen the last of this yet.

McD did hire the guy knowing full well his history. Sounds like it was his buddy. If it is over, he still needs to take responsibilty for that.

Ditto, Buddy. As I've said before, it's a chore to come here and read mostly nothing but negativity. Oh well - that's life...

I agree with your last statement, but you can also relate it to having a friend with problems, trying to help him with a clear understanding that you won't put up with his crap. The dude got fired. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons Josh didn't report it quickly, but it did get reported (by who we may never know) and punishment was delivered.

BroncoJoe
11-28-2010, 11:32 AM
Are ya'll choosing to make that your issue or have you read the last couple pages? :confused:

Most have said this incident alone is NOT the cause. People are calling for his head because of his personnel decisions, his losing record and for their feeling that he isn't full of the character and integrity that he has based his entire coaching strategy on.

Most have said that it's just ANOTHER notch on his otherwise messy tenure.

Some have said that this is just the latest in a line that finally has them fed up and ready for a coaching change.

Show me ONE person who was on McDaniels side who just up and changed their mind based on this ONE incident.

Hi Gem. Guess I agree with Coach. If we were winning, this would be swept under the rug.

Based on a lot of thread titles, there are plenty of people calling for his head because of this incident.

GEM
11-28-2010, 11:32 AM
Are ya'll choosing to make that your issue or have you read the last couple pages? :confused:

Most have said this incident alone is NOT the cause. People are calling for his head because of his personnel decisions, his losing record and for their feeling that he isn't full of the character and integrity that he has based his entire coaching strategy on.

Most have said that it's just ANOTHER notch on his otherwise messy tenure.

Some have said that this is just the latest in a line that finally has them fed up and ready for a coaching change.

Show me ONE person who was on McDaniels side who just up and changed their mind based on this ONE incident.

Therein lies the problem...you can't separate this from the other issues.

turftoad
11-28-2010, 11:33 AM
Hi Gem. Guess I agree with Coach. If we were winning, this would be swept under the rug.

Based on a lot of thread titles, there are plenty of people calling for his head because of this incident.

Bottom line is we aren't winning and we suck. :shocked:

GEM
11-28-2010, 11:34 AM
Hi Gem. Guess I agree with Coach. If we were winning, this would be swept under the rug.

Based on a lot of thread titles, there are plenty of people calling for his head because of this incident.

If we were winning, he wouldn't have a shitload of the other issues he has had so far.

Based on a lot of posts, the same people were calling for his head before this incident.

nevcraw
11-28-2010, 11:37 AM
Josh Mcdaniels decided from Day one of his reign to do it his way. he ignored every ounce of conventional wisdom throughout the last 2 years on matters of staffing, personell and player relations. This latest "nothing to see here folks" moment in the tenure concludes in many minds a complete pattern of poor choices with the net result being losses. for that he must be fired.

BroncoJoe
11-28-2010, 11:37 AM
If we were winning, he wouldn't have a shitload of the other issues he has had so far.

Based on a lot of posts, the same people were calling for his head before this incident.

Can't disagree with that either.

Tned
11-28-2010, 03:12 PM
It's pretty clear that no one can discuss this situation for what it is without allowing prior hatred for McDaniels to spill into it. Sad really

Coach, I know you haven't been around in a while (and it's GREAT that you're back), but the fact is that some of the biggest critics in the last 36 hours have been posters that have been some of McD's most ardent supporters.

This isn't simply a bunch of McD haters making hay over an unfortunate incident.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-28-2010, 03:20 PM
Therein lies the problem...you can't separate this from the other issues.

Self quoting is sexy! :D;)

Tned
11-28-2010, 03:33 PM
Hi Gem. Guess I agree with Coach. If we were winning, this would be swept under the rug.

Based on a lot of thread titles, there are plenty of people calling for his head because of this incident.

I would say it isn't solely because of this incident, it's people that have been defending him from day one, but finding it harder and harder based on the performance on the field. This then became the event/straw that made them say, "enough, I can't blindly defend him anymore".

I'm not saying the switch so many have made is right, just explaining how I see it.