What can I say, Orton gave up.

[Tom Nalen]

Orton is a hard worker and a very good QB, but when things do not initially go as planned, he has a hard time improvising. There were many times when the score was just 14-7, that he just dumped the ball off on third down. At some point, you have to understand that our Defense is outmatched and we need a big play.Do not just throw the ball away EVERYTIME. We need to put Tebow in there so he can get some live snaps. Orton just reminds of the guy who goes to work 9-5 and is just average while Tebow is the new intern the company can sink or swim with.

I am not usually one to have a knee-jerk reaction, but this was it. 6 years ago, I hated the idea of benching plummer because I still saw the competitive drive and moxie plummer brought, but Orton has non of these capabilities. Everytime he drops back to pass on 3rd and 7, I pretty much know he is going to throw the ball away. I would rather him spark the team and make a damn play!

With this said..Go Broncos:salute:
Lets kick some RAMS ASS

[Ravage!!!]

Gruden was trying to be nice when he pointed out, casually, how bad Orton is when he doesn't have a lot of time to sit in the pocket.

[BroncoStud]

There really is no defense of Orton. He just isn't that good. 5 year pro, pads his stats, sucks on 3rd down, sucks in the redzone, sucks in close games...

The Bears didn't trade him because he was the next John Elway, or even the next Jim McMahon.

[BORDERLINE]

I don't think he quit...He just had an off day...but they are happening more often...againts
Bal, Oak, SF, SD...If you are the driving force of an offense like Orton is you can't have a bad day...with no run game it's hard to have an off day and still win.

[Magnificent Seven]

I am very disappointed. I always get bad feelings all the time. It needs to be stopped. I think it is time for Elway to step up and shake this organization up.

[Magnificent Seven]

Orton couldn't run... Denver is dying to get mobile-quarterback!

[sneakers]

There really is no defense of Orton. He just isn't that good. 5 year pro, pads his stats, sucks on 3rd down, sucks in the redzone, sucks in close games...

The Bears didn't trade him because he was the next John Elway, or even the next Jim McMahon.

Maybe the next Mike Tomczak....

[BroncoAV06]

I donlt think Orton gave up. Don't need Gruden to point it out everyone knows that Orton is not a QB that will spur a comeback when down more then 7pts. Things snowballed fast tonight and another pathetic game.

Yes Orton is great when things are clicking but this team is not clicking. I am torn on getting Tebow in now but its not like this offense keeps the defense off the field anyhow.
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[silkamilkamonico]

Orton couldn't run... Denver is dying to get mobile-quarterback!

Dever doesn't need a mobile QB. They need a QB who can make quick decisions, or manipulate the pocket to buy extra time.

The best QB's in the game are just this, and not mobile, with some exceptions.

[Tom Nalen]

The problem with Orton is that he has the same problem Plummer had. Back with plummer, once the other team shut down the bootleg, it was pretty much game over for the Broncos. Now with Orton, all you have to do is stop the short passes and screens, and it is over for the Broncos.

[dogfish]

this thread sucks-- almost as bad as our defense. . .

[Ravage!!!]

this thread sucks-- almost as bad as our defense. . .

and our defense is almost as bad as our offense.

[BroncoAV06]

Its a black hole of suckness sucking out all good and sane things in this world.
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[horsepig]

I donlt think Orton gave up. Don't need Gruden to point it out everyone knows that Orton is not a QB that will spur a comeback when down more then 7pts. Things snowballed fast tonight and another pathetic game.

Yes Orton is great when things are clicking but this team is not clicking. I am torn on getting Tebow in now but its not like this offense keeps the defense off the field anyhow.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

For ******* Christ's sake \, we don't need to START Tebow, just give him some NFL live time with the first teamers.

Are his throwing mehanics SO bad that he can't play in the NFL? I ******* doubt iThis guy has a "way of getting it done" that we havwn't seen in a very long time. Give him some playing time!

[Tned]

I donlt think Orton gave up. Don't need Gruden to point it out everyone knows that Orton is not a QB that will spur a comeback when down more then 7pts. Things snowballed fast tonight and another pathetic game.

Yes Orton is great when things are clicking but this team is not clicking. I am torn on getting Tebow in now but its not like this offense keeps the defense off the field anyhow.
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This is my main problem with Orton. I have no doubts he's a great guy, hard worker, and has done better this year than most of us not named Top thought he would do.

That said, the numbers are kind of hollow.

We we are down 7 or 10 or 14 points with the clock winding down, how many of us really believe that Orton is going to drive us down for those game tying or winning drives? When the game isn't going great and the QB has to carry the team, how many of us believe Orton can do it?

If we had a 2000 Ravens defense, then I think Orton would be a GREAT QB to have, but we don't.

[Jake Klug]

This is my main problem with Orton. I have no doubts he's a great guy, hard worker, and has done better this year than most of us not named Top thought he would do.

That said, the numbers are kind of hollow.

We we are down 7 or 10 or 14 points with the clock winding down, how many of us really believe that Orton is going to drive us down for those game tying or winning drives? When the game isn't going great and the QB has to carry the team, how many of us believe Orton can do it?

If we had a 2000 Ravens defense, then I think Orton would be a GREAT QB to have, but we don't.

I think Tarvaris Jackson is a FA after this year. If you were Minnesota, would you be interested in Orton?

[Tned]

I think Tarvaris Jackson is a FA after this year. If you were Minnesota, would you be interested in Orton?

If there were no other choices, maybe.

[Jake Klug]

If there were no other choices, maybe.

Well one thing you often hear about is how Orton wins if he has a lot of help. Well, Minnesota has a lot of talent. Theyre going to want a new stadium so its questionable whether or not theyd be willing to groom another rookie QB. Theyve operated with the impression that they have a small window. Orton could possibly extend that window depending on what guys like Winfield, and Williams do.

[Slick]

Well one thing you often hear about is how Orton wins if he has a lot of help. Well, Minnesota has a lot of talent. Theyre going to want a new stadium so its questionable whether or not theyd be willing to groom another rookie QB. Theyve operated with the impression that they have a small window. Orton could possibly extend that window depending on what guys like Winfield, and Williams do.

or Tennessee.

[Jake Klug]

or Tennessee.

Good call. Maybe San Fran, or Arizona?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think Tarvaris Jackson is a FA after this year. If you were Minnesota, would you be interested in Orton?

Depends on what they have in Jackson, although Orton would probably do well behind that line with Adrian Peterson running for him. All Favre has to do is not throw INTs and complete passes about 50% of the time and Minnesota usually wins. He isn't doing that. As the guys on Monday Night Countdown said last night, he's the worst QB in the league right now.

Kyle plays well when things are going his way and McDaniels' scheme is working. As soon as something (spoken: anything) goes wrong, Both McDaniels and Orton go into the tank. Neither has the ability to improvise, change up their plan/play, or make adjustments on the fly. Orton needs a coach and scheme that he's not always the focal point of. McDaniels' offense begins and ends with the QB. Unless you've got a top QB running it, it won't be successful.

I'm not saying that's Tebow because frankly nobody knows, but I think Orton could do well elsewhere. He'd be great on a team like the Minnesota, Tennessee, or the Jets that already has a strong running game and defense. He's just not the guy you can rebuild your franchise around. That's what we're trying to do. McDaniels has put him in a bad spot and he's just not the top 5 guy we need right now to really make this offense work.

Orton has shown me a lot this year and I am impressed because when he's on, he's on, but he's just not the seize victory from the jaws of defeat type of guy. I think he's probably just about fed up with being the guy who the offense depends so heavily on and that he's the goat every week. Dawkins shut it down last night. Champ shut it down in the second half. Orton shut it down, too and was playing frustrated after the 1st quarter.

Our offense is completely unimaginative and relies on too much smoke and mirrors to be productive and when that doesn't work, our HC can't adjust the gameplan and we just go back to the same tired, non-working plays over and over.

I blame McDaniels 100%. From fist pumping and celebrating to chewing his nails and pacing nervously while staring at his play card looking lost - all in one quarter!? The game was over when we went down 14-7. Josh knew it.

[Jake Klug]

Depends on what they have in Jackson, although Orton would probably do well behind that line with Adrian Peterson running for him. All Favre has to do is not throw INTs and complete passes about 50% of the time and Minnesota usually wins. He isn't doing that. As the guys on Monday Night Countdown said last night, he's the worst QB in the league right now.

Kyle plays well when things are going his way and McDaniels' scheme is working. As soon as something (spoken: anything) goes wrong, Both McDaniels and Orton go into the tank. Neither has the ability to improvise, change up their plan/play, or make adjustments on the fly. Orton needs a coach and scheme that he's not always the focal point of. McDaniels' offense begins and ends with the QB. Unless you've got a top QB running it, it won't be successful.

I'm not saying that's Tebow because frankly nobody knows, but I think Orton could do well elsewhere. He'd be great on a team like the Minnesota, Tennessee, or the Jets that already has a strong running game and defense. He's just not the guy you can rebuild your franchise around. That's what we're trying to do. McDaniels has put him in a bad spot and he's just not the top 5 guy we need right now to really make this offense work.

Orton has shown me a lot this year and I am impressed because when he's on, he's on, but he's just not the seize victory from the jaws of defeat type of guy. I think he's probably just about fed up with being the guy who the offense depends so heavily on and that he's the goat every week. Dawkins shut it down last night. Champ shut it down in the second half. Orton shut it down, too and was playing frustrated after the 1st quarter.

Our offense is completely unimaginative and relies on too much smoke and mirrors to be productive and when that doesn't work, our HC can't adjust the gameplan and we just go back to the same tired, non-working plays over and over.

I blame McDaniels 100%. From fist pumping to chewing his nails and pacing nervously while staring at his play card looking lost all in one quarter!? The game was over when we went down 14-7. Josh knew it.

Yeah, in Minnesota it wouldnt all be on Orton and Harvin and Rice woud be good for him to throw to. And honestly, the first inclination (at least with me) is to think Kolb is the more likely candidate since he played in the WCO...but it cant be assumed that this is what Minnesota will run going forward.

[TXBRONC]

I don't agree with the notion that Orton gave up, he's not a quitter. However as couple of other people pointed if things aren't going right and we're behind in game I think there is ample evidence that Orton isn't very good at coming from behind.

[Dreadnought]

I don't agree with the notion that Orton gave up, he's not a quitter. However as couple of other people pointed if things aren't going right and we're behind in game I think there is ample evidence that Orton isn't very good at coming from behind.

Unlike, say, Brees, Brady, or Peyton Manning, Orton cannot run a power passing offense, by which I mean an offense where you as much as announce you will pass 70% of the time and double dog dare anyone to stop you. No shame in that, only very rare QBs are so capable. Orton runs the play action beautifully, but that is dependent on a legit running game and a relatively close score or a lead. He can be deadly accurate and has surprising zip on the ball this year, but he must have a sound pocket to do so.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Unlike, say, Brees, Brady, or Peyton Manning, Orton cannot run a power passing offense, by which I mean an offense where you as much as announce you will pass 70% of the time and double dog dare anyone to stop you. No shame in that, only very rare QBs are so capable. Orton runs the play action beautifully, but that is dependent on a legit running game and a relatively close score or a lead. He can be deadly accurate and has surprising zip on the ball this year, but he must have a sound pocket to do so.


If the play action doesn't work, Orton just isn't good a buying time for the receivers that should've come open on play action to get open. Those plays almost always result in sacks or throw aways for us.

[Mike]

Yeah, I didn't see him give up.

What I did see was an embarrassing lack of creativity from playcalling and an abysmal effort at adjusting to what the defense was doing. Orton wasn't great last night, but the offensive protection scheme, or lack therof, hung him out to dry.

[BroncoStud]

Maybe the next Mike Tomczak....

:laugh:

[TXBRONC]

Unlike, say, Brees, Brady, or Peyton Manning, Orton cannot run a power passing offense, by which I mean an offense where you as much as announce you will pass 70% of the time and double dog dare anyone to stop you. No shame in that, only very rare QBs are so capable. Orton runs the play action beautifully, but that is dependent on a legit running game and a relatively close score or a lead. He can be deadly accurate and has surprising zip on the ball this year, but he must have a sound pocket to do so.

All of the quarterbacks you mentioned are more than capable of winning games even when the game plan is blowing diaherra. Orton just doesn't have that ability imo.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Yeah, I didn't see him give up.

What I did see was an embarrassing lack of creativity from playcalling and an abysmal effort at adjusting to what the defense was doing. Orton wasn't great last night, but the offensive protection scheme, or lack therof, hung him out to dry.

I saw plenty of times where the protection wasn't the issue, too. Dropped balls, bad throws on third down, poor execution across the board, too many gadget plays that failed, and completely going away from the running game (which was working well in the beginning but after SD scored to put us down 14-7, we all but stopped trying to run altogether) put a fork in the offense early.

But yeah, the playcalling was terrible again last night. As soon as we got behind, McDaniels pulled out last year's playbook and went short pass, short pass, short pass, punt all night.

[BroncoStud]

Yeah, I didn't see him give up.

What I did see was an embarrassing lack of creativity from playcalling and an abysmal effort at adjusting to what the defense was doing. Orton wasn't great last night, but the offensive protection scheme, or lack therof, hung him out to dry.

Disagree, I thought McDaniels threw everything he had at the Chargers defense, the playcalling was very creative for the most part, minus some screens they simply sniffed out.

The problem is that he is hamstrung by Orton. There are simply things Orton cannot do and it holds this offense back.

The offensive line gave Orton a lot of time on a lot of plays last night, it's when playaction broke down that protection struggled, and some of that is on Orton. Mike Vick ran for his life in the pocket this week against the Giants and still made plays. Roethlisberger did the same thing against the Raiders buying time and allowing guys to get open. It's the NFL, NO QB is going to get to sit back there and play "wait until a WR gets open" on every play, at several points during a game the QB is going to have to make a play by buying time.

Orton can't. It's a total cop-out to blame the offensive line for all the sacks.

[Mike]

Disagree, I thought McDaniels threw everything he had at the Chargers defense, the playcalling was very creative for the most part, minus some screens they simply sniffed out.

The problem is that he is hamstrung by Orton. There are simply things Orton cannot do and it holds this offense back.

The offensive line gave Orton a lot of time on a lot of plays last night, it's when playaction broke down that protection struggled, and some of that is on Orton. Mike Vick ran for his life in the pocket this week against the Giants and still made plays. Roethlisberger did the same thing against the Raiders buying time and allowing guys to get open. It's the NFL, NO QB is going to get to sit back there and play "wait until a WR gets open" on every play, at several points during a game the QB is going to have to make a play by buying time.

Orton can't. It's a total cop-out to blame the offensive line for all the sacks.

All I saw was a couple of gimmick plays, tons of screens which didn't work 99% of the time, and a complete failure to adjust at the line. SD was bringing heat and Denver never adjusted to account for it. Orton was totally out of composure from the pressure and I knew the game was essentially over.

Orton isn't free of the blame (he was off target all night, wasn't effective at buying time, and was panicky) and neither are the WRs/RBs who have to catch balls. But coaches still have to adapt to what the defense is doing and ours never did.

[Northman]

Dever doesn't need a mobile QB. They need a QB who can make quick decisions, or manipulate the pocket to buy extra time.

The best QB's in the game are just this, and not mobile, with some exceptions.

Booya.

On 2 of the sacks i saw last night Orton had time to get rid of the ball but held on to it for too long. Im sure not every sack was Orton's fault as one of the Philips was on him in like 3 seconds but the other times Orton is unable to read the defenses and get rid of the ball quickly or to adjust. Not sure Tebow would be any better right now but considering the season is over (its actually been over) officially its just time to see what he can do.

[GEM]

Orton wasn't the only one that gave up, the ENTIRE team, including coaches, gave up.

[BroncoStud]

I don't think Orton gave up, he just had no answer for the situation. He isn't going to bring a team back to win a game like that. He doesn't have that sort of talent.

[Dreadnought]

Orton wasn't the only one that gave up, the ENTIRE team, including coaches, gave up.

Watching McDaniels stupid look on his face as he scanned his clip board charts over and over again...just infuriating. He broke my football team, and now he stands there with a dopey vacant expression.:mad:

Tell ya what sonnyboy - the answers ain't on yer damned chart

[Northman]

Watching McDaniels stupid look on his face as he scanned his clip board charts over and over again...just infuriating. He broke my football team, and now he stands there with a dopey vacant expression.:mad:

Tell ya what sonnyboy - the answers ain't on yer damned chart


huh huh Durrrrrr...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBFNqchTs1MuSfOaiugqLuLLPpQAYp6 6H3TTqKtJeTnvwqkpbP1g

[Jake Klug]

Watching McDaniels stupid look on his face as he scanned his clip board charts over and over again...just infuriating. He broke my football team, and now he stands there with a dopey vacant expression.:mad:

Tell ya what sonnyboy - the answers ain't on yer damned chart

Remember when people used to care about what McDaniels was wearing? Now if he wears a hoodie, its almost as if people dong notice...theyre just like, "get this guy out of here!"

[BroncoStud]

Yeah, I don't remember seeing a fanbase turn on a coach so quickly. I think for me trading Hillis was the beginning of the end, aside from the embarrassing losses to divisional opponents.

The Hillis trade hurts because I was so happy when we drafted him. He has so much talent it's hard to imagine why anyone would not want him on their roster.

[Nomad]

All I saw was a couple of gimmick plays, tons of screens which didn't work 99% of the time, and a complete failure to adjust at the line. SD was bringing heat and Denver never adjusted to account for it. Orton was totally out of composure from the pressure and I knew the game was essentially over.

Orton isn't free of the blame (he was off target all night, wasn't effective at buying time, and was panicky) and neither are the WRs/RBs who have to catch balls. But coaches still have to adapt to what the defense is doing and ours never did.

Defense didn't have an answer for the Chargers either.....maybe they all went out drinking with DJ the night before!!

[G_Money]

Watching McDaniels stupid look on his face as he scanned his clip board charts over and over again...just infuriating.

Very, veeeeeeeerrrrry frustrating. McDaniels scripted the opening sequence and got a TD out of it, just like last week. You'd think he'd be learning something. But when Shanahan did it, he used it to probe the defense as well as test their film weaknesses vs. their gameplan to stop him. McDaniels just seems to say, "Hey, we finally started scoring in the first quarter. Okay, my job is done. Wait, why are we losing now?"

And Orton is Orton. If you give him time and receivers and he has healthy legs, he can do damage. If you let him play from in front and be comfortable he can look like a juggernaut in a pass-happy offense.

But he is endemic of this whole team: when you punch us in the mouth we get all squirmy and uncomfortable.

The reason I want to see Tebow is that he LIKES to be punched in the mouth. I don't know if he can play QB in this league but even the VIBE of the players is different when he steps on the field. Tebow comes in for first and goal and everybody relaxes. He swaggers. We look like we want to punch someone else in the mouth instead and the scoring is easy.

I know every QB since John has suffered by comparison, but that's because we spent nearly 20 years with a QB who could suck for 3 quarters and you still knew that if the game was close he would come through under fire, when the pressure was high. It was in his DNA.

It's not in Orton's. It feels like it is in Tebow's, and I want to see that sooner rather than later. Orton's a fine QB. If we had defensive leaders worth a damn (I'm looking at you, broke-down Dawkins) or an offensive line that wasn't full of kids not old enough to shave, or some "skill position" players with fire and leadership, maybe we wouldn't need a rookie QB to be the leader.

If we had a head coach who was a leader instead of a yeller, that might mitigate the problem.

There is no one to lead. The rest of the coaching staff appear to be sycophants. McDaniels is drowning. Orton is not the guy to take this team by the horns.

I don't blame him. But with the team construction that we have I also can't use him. Eli Manning won a SB with the Giants, but would be utterly lost on the Colts. Orton would make the Cardinals immensely better, but he can't help this poorly designed team.

Not in time to save Josh's job.

So I'm torn - on the one hand I'd rather keep playing Orton until Josh is fired, then let the new guy run with Tebow.

On the other hand, this disgrace to Broncos football has to stop.

It HAS to stop.

~G

[Dreadnought]

Yeah, I don't remember seeing a fanbase turn on a coach so quickly. I think for me trading Hillis was the beginning of the end, aside from the embarrassing losses to divisional opponents.

The Hillis trade hurts because I was so happy when we drafted him. He has so much talent it's hard to imagine why anyone would not want him on their roster.

There were many "moments of clarity" to choose from though. You can each pick your very own favorite, and note that they don't even have to mention Jay Cutler!

Shitcanning your scouting team right before the 2009 draft and then not having an actual backup plan? Benching Scheffler and Marshall with the 2009 season on the line, then publicly claiming that this was a 'team driven' decision? Richard Quinn? Alphonso Smith? Lonnie Paxton? Lamont Jordan? Laurence Maroney? Bubble screens? Running Nolan out of town?

[rationalfan]

orton didn't quit, at least not in the sense that many of you believe. the problem with orton (and, i have to say, i have liked him this season, quite a bit) is that once he's sacked a couple times he becomes a different quarterback. after being hit hard, he doesn't run through all the reads, he looks for safe dumps to short routes, he releases the ball quicker than he should (thus, ruining accuracy) and he seems to be watching the oline as much as the receivers and dbacks.

again, i like orton, but when he does this i seriously wonder about his future with the team.

[dogfish]

Our offense is completely unimaginative and relies on too much smoke and mirrors to be productive and when that doesn't work, our HC can't adjust the gameplan and we just go back to the same tired, non-working plays over and over.

I blame McDaniels 100%. From fist pumping and celebrating to chewing his nails and pacing nervously while staring at his play card looking lost - all in one quarter!? The game was over when we went down 14-7. Josh knew it.


Watching McDaniels stupid look on his face as he scanned his clip board charts over and over again...just infuriating. He broke my football team, and now he stands there with a dopey vacant expression.:mad:

Tell ya what sonnyboy - the answers ain't on yer damned chart

yea, i'm so ****ing sick of seeing the clown on our sideline with that dazed expression on his face, and just knowing he doesn't have the first clue how to stop it or make things better. . . kid's in so far over his head he doesn't even have any idea which way is up. . .

you're right HP, the game WAS over at 14-7-- and everybody knew it. . . .

[Ravage!!!]

Booya.

On 2 of the sacks i saw last night Orton had time to get rid of the ball but held on to it for too long. Im sure not every sack was Orton's fault as one of the Philips was on him in like 3 seconds but the other times Orton is unable to read the defenses and get rid of the ball quickly or to adjust. Not sure Tebow would be any better right now but considering the season is over (its actually been over) officially its just time to see what he can do.

The INT came because Orton had pressure and had to get rid of the ball faster than he should have. He made a bad decision under pressure. Thats what he's been showing to do.... either late in games when the ball/game is in his hands and on his shoulders. He folds.

[Ravage!!!]

orton didn't quit, at least not in the sense that many of you believe. the problem with orton (and, i have to say, i have liked him this season, quite a bit) is that once he's sacked a couple times he becomes a different quarterback. after being hit hard, he doesn't run through all the reads, he looks for safe dumps to short routes, he releases the ball quicker than he should (thus, ruining accuracy) and he seems to be watching the oline as much as the receivers and dbacks.

again, i like orton, but when he does this i seriously wonder about his future with the team.

Good points, and I think dead on. His INT was for that very reason, and I believe his average pass attempt was something like 5.9 yrds?

[frauschieze]

There were many "moments of clarity" to choose from though. You can each pick your very own favorite, and note that they don't even have to mention Jay Cutler!

Shitcanning your scouting team right before the 2009 draft and then not having an actual backup plan? Benching Scheffler and Marshall with the 2009 season on the line, then publicly claiming that this was a 'team driven' decision? Richard Quinn? Alphonso Smith? Lonnie Paxton? Lamont Jordan? Laurence Maroney? Bubble screens? Running Nolan out of town?

Hard to believe that at one point, I was ready to forgive this egregious error in judgment.

[MileHighCrew]

Hard to believe that at one point, I was ready to forgive this egregious error in judgment.

Most of us wanted to forgive and forget as thing were going to get better. But they are not getting better, Even Pat Bowlen said McD made rookie mistakes ect... but at some point you are no longer a rookie and you can't make those mistakes. Not long ago we were the DENVER BRONCOS now it is just the denver broncos

[TXBRONC]

Orton wasn't the only one that gave up, the ENTIRE team, including coaches, gave up.

The players may have given up, I don't think it's stretch to come to that conclusion. However, I don't think McDaniels gave up I just think je is dumbfounded as to why his system isn't working.

[arapaho2]

this thread sucks-- almost as bad as our defense. . .


and the 5 punts and int in 6 of the 7 1st half drives really helped the defense out:lol: