Steve Young: The Broncos Seem Rudderless

[Jake Klug]

He just said it on MNF.

Discuss.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I said it a couple of weeks ago. Since the KC game happened the way it did we'll see.

[Nomad]

He referenced Cutler and Marshall as to why, so this is like pissing in the wind!

[JONtheBRONCO]

You get what you put in, 3-6/5-14, seems pretty rudderless to me, untill we prove otherwise, I don't really see how we are looked at any different, by anyone (fan, player, team, media, etc). Thats untill we beat the Chargers tonight of course.

SUCK IT YOUNG!

BRONCOS, BRONCOS, BRONCOS!

[GEM]

Someone at one time said the world was flat...

[Softskull]

Someone at one time said the world was flat...

I think that was Tned

[GEM]

I think that was Tned

You misread....T said his Jack and coke was flat. :D

[Slick]

I'm going to have to agree with Steve Young.

[Nomad]

You misread....T said his Jack and coke was flat. :D

I thought he only drank wine!!:confused:

[spikerman]

Someone at one time said the world was flat...

I remember that. It seems like it was around the last time the Broncos were really good. :tsk:

[spikerman]

I thought he only drank wine!!:confused:

I'm having some Oban single malt scotch right now. mmmmmmmmmmmm

[topscribe]

I don't understand this "discuss" shit. Who started that? Why not, "what do
you think about it?" Something like that? What else can one do on a message
board but discuss?


The Broncos aren't rudderless. They were injured. They were inexperienced in
key positions. They needed to gel. Did they seem rudderless in the last game?
If Steve Young cannot come up with better commentary than that, he ought
to resign . . .

-----

[Nomad]

I'm having some Oban single malt scotch right now. mmmmmmmmmmmm

Never heard of it, though after some of those the world could be topsy turvy!!:D

[Jake Klug]

I don't understand this "discuss" shit. Who started that? Why not, "what do
you thing about it?" Something like that? What else can one do on a message
board but discuss?


The Broncos aren't rudderless. They were injured. They were inexperienced in
key positions. They needed to gel. Did they seem rudderless in the last game?
If Steve Young cannot come up with better commentary than that, he ought
to resign . . .

-----

Cool it on the personal comments.

[topscribe]

Cool it on the personal comments.

I don't understand this "discuss" shit. Who started that? Why not, "what do
you thing about it?" Something like that? What else can one do on a message
board but discuss?


The Broncos aren't rudderless. They were injured. They were inexperienced in
key positions. They needed to gel. Did they seem rudderless in the last game?
If Steve Young cannot come up with better commentary than that, he ought
to resign . . .


Hmmm . . . looked it over carefully. Nothing personal there . . . :coffee:

-----

[Nomad]

I don't understand this "discuss" shit. Who started that? Why not, "what do
you thing about it?" Something like that? What else can one do on a message
board but discuss?


The Broncos aren't rudderless. They were injured. They were inexperienced in
key positions. They needed to gel. Did they seem rudderless in the last game?
If Steve Young cannot come up with better commentary than that, he ought
to resign . . .

-----

It's only Steve Young, top, his opinion is worth about as much as the crap I took this morning!!

[Jake Klug]

I don't understand this "discuss" shit. Who started that? Why not, "what do
you thing about it?" Something like that? What else can one do on a message
board but discuss?


The Broncos aren't rudderless. They were injured. They were inexperienced in
key positions. They needed to gel. Did they seem rudderless in the last game?
If Steve Young cannot come up with better commentary than that, he ought
to resign . . .


Hmmm . . . looked it over carefully. Nothing personal there . . . :coffee:

-----

I dont care. Just like I dont care about your stupid rant.

Discuss.

[topscribe]

I dont care. Just like I dont care about your stupid rant.

Discuss.

Fine. I don't care if you don't care.

Undiscuss.

-----

[topscribe]

It's only Steve Young, top, his opinion is worth about as much as the crap I took this morning!!

That's what gets me about people such as he. He's thrown a few passes in
his time and received an undeserved (IMO) HOF award, and so he becomes
an expert on what is going on with another team. So you are right: His
opinion is worthless.

-----

[Timmy!]

Young is a DB, but if we get crushed tonight things will get messy. We'll see which Bronco team shows up. A win and the Broncos are alive. A loss and last weeks victory is quickly forgotten and the season continues it's downward spiral.

In other news, I like pizza and beer.

Discuss.

[topscribe]

Young is a DB, but if we get crushed tonight things will get messy. We'll see which Bronco team shows up. A win and the Broncos are alive. A loss and last weeks victory is quickly forgotten and the season continues it's downward spiral.

In other news, I like pizza and beer.

Discuss.

Steve Young is a HOF QB who played 15 years in the league.

I hope you don't like anchovies. I hate anchovies.

-----

[Bosco]

Someone somewhere said something negative about the Broncos. Better start a thread on it so we can all discuss it, Lex.

[silkamilkamonico]

I dont care. Just like I dont care about your stupid rant.

Discuss.

You need to just chill with the personal comments. That is not cool.

[Ravage!!!]

His opinion is worthless. I'm sure thats the sentiment anytime someone might.. MIGHT.... compliment Orton. It seems the ONLY time a person's opinion is worthless, is when its not beaming over the Orange-n-Blue.

His opinion DOES have value to many. Why? Because he actually knows whats its like to be coached by some of the best, been a part of some of the best, and has played with some of the best. He actually has some VALUED opinions. Just because you don't agree with him, doesn't make his opinion shit. Thats a pretty childish response to anyone's opinion.

[spikerman]

People get criticized here for not being "qualified" to question McDaniels' moves. Somebody posts something on the board about a statement concerning the Broncos by a person who has the credentials and understands the NFL and he gets criticized for it. It seems to me that Steve Young is very qualified to discuss what happens in the NFL and, in fact, is paid to do so.

Whether you agree with his opinion or not, nothing about it being posted as a topic of discussion is inconsistent with threads that have been created in the past. What exactly is the problem with this thread? What am I missing here?
:confused:

[silkamilkamonico]

Back on topic, Steve Young's opinion is pretty baseless, considering he has no idea what's happening behind the scenes.

[Ravage!!!]

What exactly is the problem with this thread? What am I missing here?
:confused:

I know the answer. It doesn't compliment the Broncos, and its not raving about them because we beat the Chiefs.

[topscribe]

I would say someone's opinion about an announcer's opinion is just as valid as as that announcer's opinion . . .

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

So, I will follow up with TJ sticking up for Coach McD, and the personnel moves he made, as Ditka also did.

[spikerman]

Personally I've always thought Steve Young was an outstanding analyst and quarterback for that matter. I think he has a better idea of what happens behind the scenes of an NFL team than the rest of us. Would anybody on here actually want to put their football knowledge up against his? Even though we have a lot of smart people on here I feel 100% sure as to who would win that argument. What makes his opinion trash all of a sudden?

[spikerman]

I would say someone's opinion about an announcer's opinion is just as valid as as that announcer's opinion . . .

-----

And what makes that "announcer's" opinion not valid? He may be right or he may be wrong, but I firmly believe he knows what he's talking about which is why he draws a paycheck from ESPN.

[topscribe]

Personally I've always thought Steve Young was an outstanding analyst and quarterback for that matter. I think he has a better idea of what happens behind the scenes of an NFL team than the rest of us. Would anybody on here actually want to put their football knowledge up against his? Even though we have a lot of smart people on here I feel 100% sure as to who would win that argument. What makes his opinion trash all of a sudden?

Maybe it's about what he said about the Broncos being "rudderless."

Would stupidity be a better term, then?

-----

[spikerman]

Maybe it's about what he said about the Broncos being "rudderless."

Would stupidity be a better term, then?

-----

How do you know he isn't right?

[silkamilkamonico]

And what makes that "announcer's" opinion not valid? He may be right or he may be wrong, but I firmly believe he knows what he's talking about which is why he draws a paycheck from ESPN.

He certainly did not know what he was talking about last year when he criticized Rex Ryan ffor crying in an interview, and then went on to say how he was going to lose control of the locker room because of that. What happened there?

[topscribe]

And what makes that "announcer's" opinion not valid? He may be right or he may be wrong, but I firmly believe he knows what he's talking about which is why he draws a paycheck from ESPN.

And what makes a poster's opinion about an announcer's opinion not valid?

Looks like "two-way street" time . . .

-----

[spikerman]

So, I will follow up with TJ sticking up for Coach McD, and the personnel moves he made, as Ditka also did.

That actually really surprised me. I didn't think TJ was much of a fan of this regime.

[Ravage!!!]

Personally I've always thought Steve Young was an outstanding analyst and quarterback for that matter. I think he has a better idea of what happens behind the scenes of an NFL team than the rest of us. Would anybody on here actually want to put their football knowledge up against his? Even though we have a lot of smart people on here I feel 100% sure as to who would win that argument. What makes his opinion trash all of a sudden?

Its not trash. Everyone has an opinin, and no one's opinion is 'fact' nor does it have to be taken as one. SO if he says something that doesn't compliment their favorite player, he has a trash opinion. Just as their opinion OF that opinion, is not worth more than the crap Nomad took this morning.

I mean, imagine someone dare say that a 3-6 team is rudderless. I mean.. going 5-14 is hardly showing a team with no direction!! It has a direction all right!! :lol:

[spikerman]

And what makes a poster's opinion about an announcer's opinion not valid?

Looks like "two-way street" time . . .

-----

Ok, well I'm jumping off the "running in circles" ride and going to watch the game. Maybe something amazing will happen during the game and Steve Young will say something that proves he's a HoF QB with many years in the league and may, just may, know what he's talking about; OR maybe Denver finds the rudder and kicks a little butt tonight (I hope).

[Bosco]

He certainly did not know what he was talking about last year when he criticized Rex Ryan ffor crying in an interview, and then went on to say how he was going to lose control of the locker room because of that. What happened there?

I really like Steve Young, and value his opinions on the technical aspects of football. That said, he is a talking head (one employed by ESPN no less) who isn't immune to the occasional hyperbole or need to draw up some drama for the ratings. It's his job.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Up to last week I saw a sinking ship. We'll see what happens tonight.

Rudderless, sinking ship or sleek destoyer with a mission.

[silkamilkamonico]

Or, he may be completely wrong about his perception on Denver's situation, just like he was with Rex Ryan last year.

[Ravage!!!]

Or, he may be completely wrong about his perception on Denver's situation, just like he was with Rex Ryan last year.

Even if he is.... doesn't make his opinion "shit."

[silkamilkamonico]

I really like Steve Young, and value his opinions on the technical aspects of football. That said, he is a talking head (one employed by ESPN no less) who isn't immune to the occasional hyperbole or need to draw up some drama for the ratings. It's his job.

I totally agree. I don't think he's right or wrong, he's simply offering an opinion.

Some posters here think his opinion is "trash", while other posters think because he's a HoF QB he obviously knows exactly what he is talking about.

Both of those opinoins are completely absurd. I just personally don't hold any weight with it, just like I don't with any other announcer giving his "opinion".

[silkamilkamonico]

Even if he is.... doesn't make his opinion "shit."

I certainly didn't say anything about his opinion being shit. I'm not concerned with those that are, if there are any.

[Day1BroncoFan]

An opinion is just an opinion. It isn't fact, fiction or reality but rather how one feels and views a situation. Crap or not.

[robert ethan]

Neckblubber threw for 150 yds, 0 TD, 1 Pick, this week. Neckbeard should do better than that throwing with his left arm. Bwaaaaahhhndon Marshall bleeped up so badly he felt compelled to apologise. Then he got hurt. Shuffler caught a grand total of 1 pass. Over The Hillis averaged 2.2 ypc in amassing 48 yards yesterday.

[topscribe]

I totally agree. I don't think he's right or wrong, he's simply offering an opinion.

Some posters here think his opinion is "trash", while other posters think because he's a HoF QB he obviously knows exactly what he is talking about.

Both of those opinoins are completely absurd. I just personally don't hold any weight with it, just like I don't with any other announcer giving his "opinion".

I don't think his opinion (generally) is trash. I just think that opinion is trash . . .

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Its not trash. Everyone has an opinin, and no one's opinion is 'fact' nor does it have to be taken as one. SO if he says something that doesn't compliment their favorite player, he has a trash opinion. Just as their opinion OF that opinion, is not worth more than the crap Nomad took this morning.

I mean, imagine someone dare say that a 3-6 team is rudderless. I mean.. going 5-14 is hardly showing a team with no direction!! It has a direction all right!! :lol:

And SD has won 4 games - 1 more than than the Broncos - so I guess SD is "almost rudderless"

[Tned]

You misread....T said his Jack and coke was flat. :D

At least someone was paying attention...

[tomjonesrocks]

I hate this coach and what's happened to this franchise. Not to mention the fact that we're the Chargers' bitch every season--but the quote "the Broncos seem rudderless" is a bit too vague to be analysis to me.

C'mon Steve--you can do better than that.

[Slick]

He's right. This team has no leaders and the coach isn't doing a very good job. It's a valid observation.

[spikerman]

Young is looking smarter by the minute.

[Nomad]

Young is looking smarter by the minute.

How's that?? he said we were rudderless without Cutler and Marshall!! I don't recall the BRONCOS owning the Chargers with those guys!! Perhaps McDaniels is a dumbass but Young could have elaborated better!!

[spikerman]

How's that?? he said we were rudderless without Cutler and Marshall!! I don't recall the BRONCOS owning the Chargers with those guys!! Perhaps McDaniels is a dumbass but Young could have elaborated better!!

"Rudderless" may have been the wrong word.. maybe he should have said "sinking like a rock" instead.

[Jake Klug]

How's that?? he said we were rudderless without Cutler and Marshall!! I don't recall the BRONCOS owning the Chargers with those guys!! Perhaps McDaniels is a dumbass but Young could have elaborated better!!

Stop acting like its only about the Chargers. Youre not fooling anyone with this. This team is 5-15 in their last 20 games and 3-7 on the season. Give it up already.

[Nomad]

Stop acting like its only about the Chargers. Youre not fooling anyone with this. This team is 5-15 in their last 20 games and 3-7 on the season. Give it up already.

I'm not here to prove anything except i was answering his post!! So **** off Lex and go bother someone else!!;)

[Nomad]

"Rudderless" may have been the wrong word.. maybe he should have said "sinking like a rock" instead.

Now you could be right with that analogy but I believe Young was wrong saying Cutler and marshall were the key factors why!!

[Broncos Mtnman]

Up to last week I saw a sinking ship. We'll see what happens tonight.

Rudderless, sinking ship or sleek destoyer with a mission.

I'd say more like a leaky row boat.

No power - no rudder - and sinking

:coffee:

[Lancane]

Now you could be right with that analogy but I believe Young was wrong saying Cutler and marshall were the key factors why!!

How is that Nomad? Seriously...because Cutler is a better athlete and quarterback then Orton, as I've said before and it holds true - Orton is a system quarterback in the right system, while Cutler had the tools to make a difference whether ahead or behind in a game and no matter the scheme. Same goes for Marshall, yeah...Lloyd is doing great, but he is not a game changer, and Brandon Marshall had that and made things happen.

I'm not downing Orton or Lloyd, they're playing well enough...but don't be fooled that they are more because most of us know and others are starting to realize that the system has a lot to do with and not their own abilities.

[Nomad]

How is that Nomad? Seriously...because Cutler is a better athlete and quarterback then Orton, as I've said before and it holds true - Orton is a system quarterback in the right system, while Cutler had the tools to make a difference whether ahead or behind in a game and no matter the scheme. Same goes for Marshall, yeah...Lloyd is doing great, but he is not a game changer, and Brandon Marshall had that and made things happen.

I'm not downing Orton or Lloyd, they're playing well enough...but don't be fooled that they are more because most of us know and others are starting to realize that the system has a lot to do with and not their own abilities.

Cutler is a better athelete but a better QB remains to be proven! Marshall was a game changer but I don't believe he is solely responsible for changing the BRONCOS course and that's what Young basically said!! Defense is the sole reason this team has failed over the years!! McDaniels should of kept Hillis, Nolan, and probably Sheffler and focused more on the defense in the past 2 drafts!!

[Lancane]

Cutler is a better athelete but a better QB remains to be proven! Marshall was a game changer but I don't believe he is solely responsible for changing the BRONCOS course and that's what Young basically said!! Defense is the sole reason this team has failed over the years!! McDaniels should of kept Hillis, Nolan, and probably Sheffler and focused more on the defense in the past 2 drafts!!

McDaniels should have kept Cutler and the rest and built off what he had, and if he would have done that and focused on the defense with the drafts as you said we would likely be better, much better then we are now.

[Nomad]

I do agree with what Young just said though, "BRONCOS need to find their soul"

[Bosco]

How's that?? he said we were rudderless without Cutler and Marshall!! I don't recall the BRONCOS owning the Chargers with those guys!! Perhaps McDaniels is a dumbass but Young could have elaborated better!!

That's what I'd like to know. We sure weren't "rudderless" when we marched right down the field on the very first drive and our team looked as fired up as they did at just about any point last week. Even when things started going south there was still a good amount on intensity.

I tell ya, I really get sick of this psuedo psychology people try to do on teams that are losing. It's not always the coach "losing" the team or being "rudderless" or any of the other cute little cliches people love to throw out. Sometimes you're just not a good football team. Sometimes it's just not your year. Sometimes it's not so much about what you did wrong as much as it's about what the other guys did right, which I think was the case tonight.

[Ravage!!!]

That's what I'd like to know. We sure weren't "rudderless" when we marched right down the field on the very first drive and our team looked as fired up as they did at just about any point last week. Even when things started going south there was still a good amount on intensity.

I tell ya, I really get sick of this psuedo psychology people try to do on teams that are losing. It's not always the coach "losing" the team or being "rudderless" or any of the other cute little cliches people love to throw out. Sometimes you're just not a good football team. Sometimes it's just not your year. Sometimes it's not so much about what you did wrong as much as it's about what the other guys did right, which I think was the case tonight.

Really??? We were 1 for 11 on 3rd downs. As soon as the defense pulled the corners up to stop the run, the "opening script" just didn't matter. Every team in the NFL can have a good drive, a good series, or a good game.

RUDDERLESS refers to the fact that this team doesn't seem to have a direction. Getting rid of players, trading for QBs, drafting 1st round QBs, and then extending contracts to QBs seems to show that this team doesn't have a clue as to what direction ist GOING to go... thats the mere definition of 'rudderless.'

[Nomad]

McDaniels should have kept Cutler and the rest and built off what he had, and if he would have done that and focused on the defense with the drafts as you said we would likely be better, much better then we are now.

Fair enough, it's what you believe, but Cutler would have never been a Denver BRONCO if I had my way!! Ngata was the anchor I wanted even if that meant changing the scheme of the defense. I never counted on Cutler and was happy to see him go!!

[Krugan]

We are a talent short poor football team.

I dont think any coach could make this hodge podge of players consistant.

Not giving any credit to Josh, he made his moves and this is the bed we all get to sleep in.

Lumpy and bug infested as it is.

[Ravage!!!]

And SD has won 4 games - 1 more than than the Broncos - so I guess SD is "almost rudderless"

Carol... I don't CARE if the Chargers are 'rudderless.' What does that have to do with the Broncos not having a direction?? I couldn't care less what direction they are headed in..other than seeing that ALLTHREE teams in the AFC West are heading in BETTER directions than the Broncos are.

[Broncos Mtnman]

McDaniels should have kept Cutler and the rest and built off what he had, and if he would have done that and focused on the defense with the drafts as you said we would likely be better, much better then we are now.

That's why I wanted Ryan as our new HC.

He wouldn't have blown up a pretty productive offense and he would have addressed our weakness of the past few years.

[Bosco]

We are a talent short poor football team.

I dont think any coach could make this hodge podge of players consistant.

I wouldn't say that. The only places where the talent is shaky is at backup running back and along the defensive line. You could include the linebackers but the talent is there, just injured.

It's just a tough season for us. It happens to every team. We'll have another offseason to fix the few holes we have on this team and increase the overall talent level and come back strong in 2011.

[Lancane]

I wouldn't say that. The only places where the talent is shaky is at backup running back and along the defensive line. You could include the linebackers but the talent is there, just injured.

It's just a tough season for us. It happens to every team. We'll have another offseason to fix the few holes we have on this team and increase the overall talent level and come back strong in 2011.

As I've said before, optimism is bliss...:coffee:

[Bosco]

As I've said before, optimism is bliss...:coffee:

So is realism, which despite our poor record, can bring a fair amount of optimism.

This isn't a bad team. It's an average team that has caught as many bad breaks as any Denver team going back to 1999, when we finished 6-10. They bounced back very well in 2000 and I'm looking for us to do the same.

[Krugan]

So is realism, which despite our poor record, can bring a fair amount of optimism.

This isn't a bad team. It's an average team that has caught as many bad breaks as any Denver team going back to 1999, when we finished 6-10. They bounced back very well in 2000 and I'm looking for us to do the same.

I cant fault you for hopes, ill give you that :)

Sadly this isnt just this year, this is losing 15 of 20 games bad.

This isnt just losing, but getting worked, by your own division. Get beat outside of the west bad is one thing, getting handled inside the division, not acceptable.

[Jake Klug]

So is realism, which despite our poor record, can bring a fair amount of optimism.

This isn't a bad team. It's an average team that has caught as many bad breaks as any Denver team going back to 1999, when we finished 6-10. They bounced back very well in 2000 and I'm looking for us to do the same.

Uh oh. Break out the violins.

[Bosco]

I cant fault you for hopes, ill give you that :)

Sadly this isnt just this year, this is losing 15 of 20 games bad.

This isnt just losing, but getting worked, by your own division. Get beat outside of the west bad is one thing, getting handled inside the division, not acceptable.

Sure it's bad, I'm not going to act like it isn't. Sometimes though you just have to step back and take the emotion out of it and look at it objectively. We're definitely rebuilding here and we're taking the lumps that go with it. The good part is that we're in the middle of year two of that and frankly, there isn't all that much work to be done.

Keep the faith brother. Things will get better.

[Jake Klug]

Sure it's bad, I'm not going to act like it isn't. Sometimes though you just have to step back and take the emotion out of it and look at it objectively. We're definitely rebuilding here and we're taking the lumps that go with it. The good part is that we're in the middle of year two of that and frankly, there isn't all that much work to be done.

Keep the faith brother. Things will get better.

LOL. Good one. That was hilarious.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I wouldn't say that. The only places where the talent is shaky is at backup running back and along the defensive line. You could include the linebackers but the talent is there, just injured.

It's just a tough season for us. It happens to every team. We'll have another offseason to fix the few holes we have on this team and increase the overall talent level and come back strong in 2011.

Strange, but it hasn't happened to the Broncos since the 71-72 season...

Happens to every team my ass. Dude, your head is so far up McDaniels horrible coaching ass that he could literally take a crap on you and you'd thank him for it. For a smart guy, you sure don't know shit about what makes a good coach or a good football team.

This is about the most asinine post about our current state of affairs I've seen.

[Bosco]

Strange, but it hasn't happened to the Broncos since the 71-72 season...

Happens to every team my ass. Dude, your head is so far up McDaniels horrible coaching ass that he could literally take a crap on you and you'd thank him for it. For a smart guy, you sure don't know shit about what makes a good coach or a good football team.

This is about the most asinine post about our current state of affairs I've seen.

Way to get over technical and completely miss the point there dude. About what I'd expect for you and your slit your wrists mentality after every loss.

[Jake Klug]

Way to get over technical and completely miss the point there dude. About what I'd expect for you and your slit your wrists mentality after every loss.


Strange, but it hasn't happened to the Broncos since the 71-72 season...

Happens to every team my ass. Dude, your head is so far up McDaniels horrible coaching ass that he could literally take a crap on you and you'd thank him for it. For a smart guy, you sure don't know shit about what makes a good coach or a good football team.

This is about the most asinine post about our current state of affairs I've seen.

Yeah, dont you realize he was trying to be vague enough to speak in bland generalities but not specific enough so that he could BS everyone? How dare you scrutinize his misch mash.

[BroncoAV06]

I lean towards a lot more needs to be done then fill a few holes. The defense is lacking talent and it shows drive after drive. No depth, no will to hit the other team, just a defense to pad your stats against.
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[Bosco]

I lean towards a lot more needs to be done then fill a few holes. I disagree. All four linebacker spots are essentially locked up and Hunter gives us some nice depth on the outside. Between Champ, Goodman and Cox we have three starting quality corners with Squid looking like a solid dimeback. Dawkins still probably has another serviceable year left and McBath is probably going to take Renaldo Hill's job next year.

Really, that leaves us needing some defensive linemen and some safety depth. Easily addressable in a single offseason.

[horsepig]

I don't understand this "discuss" shit. Who started that? Why not, "what do
you think about it?" Something like that? What else can one do on a message
board but discuss?


The Broncos aren't rudderless. They were injured. They were inexperienced in
key positions. They needed to gel. Did they seem rudderless in the last game?
If Steve Young cannot come up with better commentary than that, he ought
to resign . . .

-----

Man' I guess, what a dumbass thing to say. BTW did you happen listen to Millen espousing his ******* opinions?

[horsepig]

BTW, I didn't mean to say you were a dumb ass TOP.

[Slick]

Sure it's bad, I'm not going to act like it isn't. Sometimes though you just have to step back and take the emotion out of it and look at it objectively. We're definitely rebuilding here and we're taking the lumps that go with it. The good part is that we're in the middle of year two of that and frankly, there isn't all that much work to be done.

Keep the faith brother. Things will get better.

I understood when we hired Josh that we would take some lumps, that we needed to rebuild. I fail to see how anyone can think there isn't all that much work to be done.

I see a team that needs to start over again. This isn't working.

[Jake Klug]

I understood when we hired Josh that we would take some lumps, that we needed to rebuild. I fail to see how anyone can think there isn't all that much work to be done.

I see a team that needs to start over again. This isn't working.

Honestly, it starts at the top and includes Joe Ellis. McDaniels was never really a good fit from the beginning.

[Den21vsBal19]

I disagree. All four linebacker spots are essentially locked up and Hunter gives us some nice depth on the outside. Between Champ, Goodman and Cox we have three starting quality corners with Squid looking like a solid dimeback. Dawkins still probably has another serviceable year left and McBath is probably going to take Renaldo Hill's job next year.

Really, that leaves us needing some defensive linemen and some safety depth. Easily addressable in a single offseason.

How long have we been saying that for, now? :confused:

[SOCALORADO.]

DEN is in desperate need of at least 2 LBs, and thats with the understanding Doom comes back fully healthy, and the ENTIRE D-line needs to be adressed. All three or 4 ( however your looking at it 3-4 4-3 hybrid wtvr) positions need to be drafted for.
The entire front 7 needs 5 new players, and bad. The secondary if fine with the exception of SS, but i even think Bruton could play there, so i'll let that one slide.

Offense needs another G and a RB that can run for an entire game to play with Moreno.
TE is also a need, but jeez, theres so many holes and only one offseason.

And this team could also use a nice, big shot of !!!!!!!GRUDEN!!!!!!!!

[Jake Klug]

DEN is in desperate need of at least 2 LBs, and thats with the understanding Doom comes back fully healthy, and the ENTIRE D-line needs to be adressed. All three or 4 ( however your looking at it 3-4 4-3 hybrid wtvr) positions need to be drafted for.
The entire front 7 needs 5 new players, and bad. The secondary if fine with the exception of SS, but i even think Bruton could play there, so i'll let that one slide.

Offense needs another G and a RB that can run for an entire game to play with Moreno.
TE is also a need, but jeez, theres so many holes and only one offseason.

And this team could also use a nice, big shot of !!!!!!!GRUDEN!!!!!!!!

Would that be in the arm or in the butt?

[Northman]

Strange, but it hasn't happened to the Broncos since the 71-72 season...

Happens to every team my ass. Dude, your head is so far up McDaniels horrible coaching ass that he could literally take a crap on you and you'd thank him for it. For a smart guy, you sure don't know shit about what makes a good coach or a good football team.

This is about the most asinine post about our current state of affairs I've seen.

:lol:

Post of the year.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm betting we don't have Champ next season.

I'm on the bandwagon that we lose the rest of the games, OR, we make arrangements now to get the 1st overall pick and take Andrew Luck from Stanford.

Before I hear this "QB isn't our problem" rebuttels, I'm going to disagree. True, orton isn't the LARGEST problem we have, but he's also not a guy tht does well when things aren't going great, when the situation isn't ideal, and when things break down. He's not a QB that will "make up" when the team around you breaks down like we see from a Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, Roth, Rodgers, or Eli.

We have a LOT of work to do with this team. I would actually LOVE to have a QB from Stanford again that gives me something to be excited about when I watch the games.

[Northman]

DEN is in desperate need of at least 2 LBs, and thats with the understanding Doom comes back fully healthy, and the ENTIRE D-line needs to be adressed. All three or 4 ( however your looking at it 3-4 4-3 hybrid wtvr) positions need to be drafted for.
The entire front 7 needs 5 new players, and bad. The secondary if fine with the exception of SS, but i even think Bruton could play there, so i'll let that one slide.

Offense needs another G and a RB that can run for an entire game to play with Moreno.
TE is also a need, but jeez, theres so many holes and only one offseason.

And this team could also use a nice, big shot of !!!!!!!GRUDEN!!!!!!!!

I can do with a tall glass of Grudenade.

[Northman]

I'm betting we don't have Champ next season.

I'm on the bandwagon that we lose the rest of the games, OR, we make arrangements now to get the 1st overall pick and take Andrew Luck from Stanford.

Before I hear this "QB isn't our problem" rebuttels, I'm going to disagree. True, orton isn't the LARGEST problem we have, but he's also not a guy tht does well when things aren't going great, when the situation isn't ideal, and when things break down. He's not a QB that will "make up" when the team around you breaks down like we see from a Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, Roth, Rodgers, or Eli.

We have a LOT of work to do with this team. I would actually LOVE to have a QB from Stanford again that gives me something to be excited about when I watch the games.

Qb isnt the problem but i know what your saying. He isnt a playmaker either but really if we had a running game and decent defense we would be at least winning more games than losing.

[Mike]

I'm betting we don't have Champ next season.

I'm on the bandwagon that we lose the rest of the games, OR, we make arrangements now to get the 1st overall pick and take Andrew Luck from Stanford.

Before I hear this "QB isn't our problem" rebuttels, I'm going to disagree. True, orton isn't the LARGEST problem we have, but he's also not a guy tht does well when things aren't going great, when the situation isn't ideal, and when things break down. He's not a QB that will "make up" when the team around you breaks down like we see from a Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, Roth, Rodgers, or Eli.

We have a LOT of work to do with this team. I would actually LOVE to have a QB from Stanford again that gives me something to be excited about when I watch the games.

I agree that Champ is gone. Good for him too. He deserves to have a shot at a ring.

I can't see how the Broncos draft a QB having given up what they did to draft last year Tebow and trading for that bum Quinn.

[tomjonesrocks]

Short of Broncos fanboards I haven't read anyone speculating Gruden could wind up in Denver.

When Shanahan was fired Denver was considered a top coaching option. Now talent-depleted, McDaniels has destroyed that. I don't think the team has a chance in the world at Gruden--he's going to get better offers. Ditto with Cowher if he were to return to coaching--not that Bowlen would pay his asking price.

At this point I believe we're stuck with second-tier options such as Billick, etc. At this point I'd take anyone over McDaniels but I think unfortunately the team has fallen so low that we're going to need a stopgap coach to make the team competitive again and up the talent level before we can be considering marquee names again.

[Ravage!!!]

Qb isnt the problem but i know what your saying. He isnt a playmaker either but really if we had a running game and decent defense we would be at least winning more games than losing.


I agree that Champ is gone. Good for him too. He deserves to have a shot at a ring.

I can't see how the Broncos draft a QB having given up what they did to draft last year Tebow and trading for that bum Quinn.

I don't really expect us to move up into the #1 spot and take a QB. I also know that QB isn't the biggest problem.... OTHER than the fact that I truly don't believe we have a QB on the entire roster that is worth much.

Gruden made a flat out point last night when he said "Every play I've seen Tebow run this year are the exact same plays he ran in Florida." UGH... thats depressing and bothersome. Why is that? Doesn't that make anyone else wonder?

Eh.. I'm not going to turn this into a different topic, plenty of other threads that will have this discussion. But I think the QB rudders the team when on the field.... and we are 5-15, and just last night went 1-11 on 3rd downs and a single score when it mattered. We certainly aren't going to build a Ravens defense... so we NEED an offense. That starts with the QB. I could get excited about this team again if we had a guy that is rated to be as good as ANYONE coming out of college at QB.

I don't know. I'm just randomly venting/dreaming/wishing at this point anymore.

[Nomad]

Short of Broncos fanboards I haven't seen anyone speculating Gruden could wind up in Denver.

When Shanahan was fired Denver was considered a top coaching option. Now talent-depleted, McDaniels has destroyed that. I don't think the team has a chance in the world at Gruden--he's going to get better offers. Ditto with Cowher if he were to return to coaching--not that Bowlen would pay his asking price.

At this point I believe we're stuck with second-tier options such as Billick, etc. At this point I'd take anyone over McDaniels but I think unfortunately the team has fallen so low that we're going to need a stopgap coach to make the team competitive again and up the talent level before we can be considering marquee names again.

Would we want a re-tread or perhaps a coach like Harbaugh from Stanford with a real GM and solid defensive coordinator/ coach!!

[Ravage!!!]

Short of Broncos fanboards I haven't seen anyone speculating Gruden could wind up in Denver.

When Shanahan was fired Denver was considered a top coaching option. Now talent-depleted, McDaniels has destroyed that. I don't think the team has a chance in the world at Gruden--he's going to get better offers. Ditto with Cowher if he were to return to coaching--not that Bowlen would pay his asking price.

At this point I believe we're stuck with second-tier options such as Billick, etc. At this point I'd take anyone over McDaniels but I think unfortunately the team has fallen so low that we're going to need a stopgap coach to make the team competitive again and up the talent level before we can be considering marquee names again.

One thing we do know, is that McDaniels won't be fired mid-season like they did in Dallas and Minnesota, because we don't have a coordinator on staff that could take over the job. I guess that was well planned job-security on McD's part.

You have a good point about how we are depleted of talent, and we are no longer the "best team for a new coach" as we were when McD took over......but Gruden DOES really like Tebow.

There will be a lot of coaching jobs available this coming offseason.

[Nomad]

I don't really expect us to move up into the #1 spot and take a QB. I also know that QB isn't the biggest problem.... OTHER than the fact that I truly don't believe we have a QB on the entire roster that is worth much.

Gruden made a flat out point last night when he said "Every play I've seen Tebow run this year are the exact same plays he ran in Florida." UGH... thats depressing and bothersome. Why is that? Doesn't that make anyone else wonder?

Eh.. I'm not going to turn this into a different topic, plenty of other threads that will have this discussion. But I think the QB rudders the team when on the field.... and we are 5-15, and just last night went 1-11 on 3rd downs and a single score when it mattered. We certainly aren't going to build a Ravens defense... so we NEED an offense. That starts with the QB. I could get excited about this team again if we had a guy that is rated to be as good as ANYONE coming out of college at QB.

I don't know. I'm just randomly venting/dreaming/wishing at this point anymore.

Minny or Cincy could be positioning themselves for Luck's services!!

[SOCALORADO.]

Would that be in the arm or in the butt?

BOTH! At the same time!
Man, does this team need a swift, Gruden kick in the @$$!

Also, i think anyone who doesnt think Gruden would come here sorely underestimates the draw Denver has.
Great city. Awsome area to live and work. Away from the congested east and south, its an island of its own, where a coach can set his agenda and himself for success, and create his own stronghold. Media is critical, but not NY City, Phili nutjob critical.
Great fanbase. Just awsome and willing to back you up 110% if you just show signs of year to year improvement. Unlike most cities.
Overall, good weather.
The Denver Broncos HC position is considered year in year out, one of the most highly coveted positions in all of football. It has been for many years.

[Nomad]

BOTH! At the same time!
Man, does this team need a swift, Gruden kick in the @$$!

Also, i think anyone who doesnt think Gruden would come here sorely underestimates the draw Denver has.
Great city. Awsome area to live and work. Away from the congested east and south, its an island of its own, where a coach can set his agenda and himself for success, and create his own stronghold. Media is critical, but not NY City, Phili nutjob critical.
Great fanbase. Just awsome and willing to back you up 110% if you just show signs of year to year improvement. Unlike most cities.
Overall, good weather.
The Denver Broncos HC position is considered year in year out, one of the most highly coveted positions in all of football. It has been for many years.

He did repeat multiple times how much the teams in the AFC West hate each other!! All this hate, Gruden would never have to change his Chucky facial expression!! I will underestimate Gruden and say he has no interest in coming to Denver even if Tebow is here!!

[Ravage!!!]

Minny or Cincy could be positioning themselves for Luck's services!!

Minnesota might end up winning too many games to get him. Cincy and Carolina? Cowherd guessed he would end up in Carolina (along with Harbaugh) because they are bad and have a tough schedule left for the year.

[Ravage!!!]

He did repeat multiple times how much the teams in the AFC West hate each other!! All this hate, Gruden would never have to change his Chucky facial expression!! I will underestimate Gruden and say he has no interest in coming to Denver even if Tebow is here!!

Especially after watching us in person last night!! :lol:

[Nomad]

Minnesota might end up winning too many games to get him. Cincy and Carolina? Cowherd guessed he would end up in Carolina (along with Harbaugh) because they are bad and have a tough schedule left for the year.

I heard something similiar but what happened to Clausen being the answer for the Panthers!!

[jhildebrand]

This was a winnable game. The opening drive wasn't a fluke by any means. McDaniels went for the kill on the second posession by trying to go deep and ended up with a 3 and out. He should have continued to run the ball.

SHoot, he could have duplicated the first drive and done that until the chargers had done ANYTHING that resembled stopping it.

I am glad the commentators made the comments about "garbage yards/stats" hopefully that sinks in for some!

Finally, I will say it again-aside from Champ (and that is beginning to change) there isn't a playmaker on this D. Perrish looks good and will be a stud. Dumervil will be. After that, who is there? :confused:

Before you give McDaniels a pass remember that it was clear following both 08 and 09 that this team needed serious work on D. The drafting wasn't done there. This team is two full draft classes short on D.

On the bright side, Moreno looks like a new player! I am excited to see him perform. He isn't performing at the #12 overall selection quite yet. He almost broke one last night if it weren't for the damn shoelaces. But he is getting there.

[SOCALORADO.]

He did repeat multiple times how much the teams in the AFC West hate each other!! All this hate, Gruden would never have to change his Chucky facial expression!! I will underestimate Gruden and say he has no interest in coming to Denver even if Tebow is here!!

Where are these better offers?
DALLAS!?!?! Thats an absolute nightmare. ULTRA-HYPER-NEVER ENDING DRAMA-CRAZY OWNER-HAPPY-FUN-TIME.
I honestly just dont see him going there. Or even wanting that job.

SF!?!? Ahhh, maybe. He did coach across the bay, and they are a QB away from being pretty good.

MIN!?!? Lezlie will be the next HC. Book it.

CAR!?!? I think theres just as much of a draw in DEN as CAR. Similiar problems. If Fox gets canned.

Where else is there?

[Nomad]

Where are these better offers?
DALLAS!?!?! Thats an absolute nightmare. ULTRA-HYPER-NEVER ENDING DRAMA-CRAZY OWNER-HAPPY-FUN-TIME.
I honestly just dont see him going there. Or even wanting that job.

SF!?!? Ahhh, maybe. He did coach across the bay, and they are a QB away from being pretty good.

MIN!?!? Lezlie will be the next HC. Book it.

CAR!?!? I think theres just as much of a draw in DEN as CAR. Similiar problems. If Fox gets canned.

Where else is there?

I didn't say he'd go anywhere, but I don't believe Gruden would come to Denver!! He may be happy with his gig on MNF!

[jhildebrand]

Where are these better offers?
DALLAS!?!?! Thats an absolute nightmare. ULTRA-HYPER-NEVER ENDING DRAMA-CRAZY OWNER-HAPPY-FUN-TIME.
I honestly just dont see him going there. Or even wanting that job.

SF!?!? Ahhh, maybe. He did coach across the bay, and they are a QB away from being pretty good.

MIN!?!? Lezlie will be the next HC. Book it.

CAR!?!? I think theres just as much of a draw in DEN as CAR. Similiar problems. If Fox gets canned.

Where else is there?

Miami will probably open up. AZ might open up. Houston and Jax could very well open up. If Del Rio does very well in the PO's he will stay but they were ready to can him earlier in the season.

Dallas isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Problem in Dallas is Jones is going to keep Garrett. I think he feels Garrett is a chance to correct his mistake in letting Sean Payton go.

Cleveland could open and Holmgren might not necessarily coach.

The problem in Denver is potential coaches know this team is seriously short of talent, the QB situation is a mess, and it will take longer than one coach to correct it. They risk never getting a job again for taking a job that wont guarantee three years to clean it up!

[SOCALORADO.]

I didn't say he'd go anywhere, but I don't believe Gruden would come to Denver!! He may be happy with his gig on MNF!

No. He HATES it. Told me so on twitter this morning.
Something about wanting to make Ron Jaworski's face a hole punch.
Chucky did say he needed a latte though, so you never know..

[SOCALORADO.]

Miami will probably open up. AZ might open up. Houston and Jax could very well open up. If Del Rio does very well in the PO's he will stay but they were ready to can him earlier in the season.

Dallas isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Problem in Dallas is Jones is going to keep Garrett. I think he feels Garrett is a chance to correct his mistake in letting Sean Payton go.

Cleveland could open and Holmgren might not necessarily coach.

The problem in Denver is potential coaches know this team is seriously short of talent, the QB situation is a mess, and it will take longer than one coach to correct it. They risk never getting a job again for taking a job that wont guarantee three years to clean it up!

AZ and MIA are a bit of a stretch. I dunno. Maybe. They just basically hired those guys and lets face it, with a QB, AZ is a NFC title contender. MIA, meh. I dunno. maybe. I could see JAX if they want a change, however they a rumored to be leaving anyways, and the owner is a bit of a cheapskate.

Yeah, it could take 3 years to clean DEN up, but i dont think going 9-7 with a solid FA and draft is outta the question for Gruden.
I say 2 years with the right GM and HC.

[Nomad]

No. He HATES it. Told me so on twitter this morning.
Something about wanting to make Ron Jaworski's face a hole punch.
Chucky did say he needed a latte though, so you never know..

I guess only time will tell SOCAL!! It would be exciting to see a proven coach like Gruden come to Denver, but I would have to see it to believe it!! Would demand the authority like Shanahan had and McDaniels has, if so I'd like to see Denver take a different route!!

[jhildebrand]

AZ and MIA are a bit of a stretch. I dunno. Maybe. They just basically hired those guys and lets face it, with a QB, AZ is a NFC title contender. MIA, meh. I dunno. maybe. I could see JAX if they want a change, however they a rumored to be leaving anyways, and the owner is a bit of a cheapskate.

Yeah, it could take 3 years to clean DEN up, but i dont think going 9-7 with a solid FA and draft is outta the question for Gruden.
I say 2 years with the right GM and HC.

Az could. I only say that because they are vastly underperforming. However, their division is so weak they could easily win it and do damage in the POs.

Miami is a mess. I think they will make a change. Jax too. Houston, if they don't win and get into the PO's will can Kubes.

Speculating right now is fruitless. The labor agreement alone makes the picture too muddy.

I will go easy on McDaniels if he continues to show he can change his ways as he has shown since the KC week. I would need to see him play a lot more youth including tebow to be less critical. If he sticks with plans and units like last night, he deserves full heat.

[Northman]

No. He HATES it. Told me so on twitter this morning.
Something about wanting to make Ron Jaworski's face a hole punch.
Chucky did say he needed a latte though, so you never know..

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Gimpygod]

Back on topic, Steve Young's opinion is pretty baseless, considering he has no idea what's happening behind the scenes.

well if we do have a rudder someone needs to tell the ******* driving to steer away from the rocks.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I'd say more like a leaky row boat.

No power - no rudder - and sinking

:coffee:

I'm back to the sinking ship today. :sad:

[Ravage!!!]

Jobs that could be available for Gruden to interview for.

Cinci. Obviously.
Jacksonville MIGHT...depends on next few games I believe.
Denver should get a new coach.
San Diego. Its getting stupid how poorly they play early in season.
Houston. Kubiak needs to be let go.
Carolina.
San Fran. It would probably be nice for him to go back.

Dallas. Garrett will remain their HC.
Minnesota. Frasier will remain their HC

[SOCALORADO.]

Jobs that could be available for Gruden to interview for.

Cinci. Obviously.
Jacksonville MIGHT...depends on next few games I believe.
Denver should get a new coach.
San Diego. Its getting stupid how poorly they play early in season.
Houston. Kubiak needs to be let go.
Carolina.
San Fran. It would probably be nice for him to go back.

Dallas. Garrett will remain their HC.
Minnesota. Frasier will remain their HC

I forgot CIN! That whole team needs to just be blown up and rebuilt.
I actually could see Palmer in SEA in a trade next year!
Houston should be much better. Kubes better watch it!
I agree on DAL/MIN.

[TimTebow15MVP]

If only i knew what rudderless meant.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Miami will probably open up. AZ might open up. Houston and Jax could very well open up. If Del Rio does very well in the PO's he will stay but they were ready to can him earlier in the season.

Dallas isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Problem in Dallas is Jones is going to keep Garrett. I think he feels Garrett is a chance to correct his mistake in letting Sean Payton go.

Cleveland could open and Holmgren might not necessarily coach.

The problem in Denver is potential coaches know this team is seriously short of talent, the QB situation is a mess, and it will take longer than one coach to correct it. They risk never getting a job again for taking a job that wont guarantee three years to clean it up!

I think your overly dramatic.