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WARHORSE
08-20-2008, 05:09 AM
I agree with Schlereth mostly......but we WILL be passing more.


If the playbook hasn't changed, it's been rearranged.
Far more passing plays, from a multitude of formations, have been slipped to the front. Those two one-cut, zone-blocking plays — one starting to the right, the other starting to the left — always will have their place in Chapter 1 of the Broncos' playbook.
It's just that the First Book of Shanahan has become much thicker with diagrams that utilize the talents of a franchise quarterback in Jay Cutler and a freakishly talented wide receiver in Brandon Marshall.
Through the Broncos' first two preseason games, Mike Shana-han and quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates have called 30 passes and 14 running plays for the first-team offense. And the preseason is when Shanahan usually guards his playbook from enemy film projectionists. There's one more preseason stat worth gawking at: The Broncos' first-string offense scored touchdowns on three of its first four drives.

Could 2008 be the rebirth of the Mastermind?
"I have noticed we've been doing more passing, using more three wides early on," said Brandon Stokley, who as the Broncos' No. 3 receiver would be the first to notice an increase in three-receiver sets. "We have the ability to give defenses tough matchups with our receivers. In this league it's all about making big plays. It's hard to go 80 yards in 12 plays. Teams that make the big plays win the game. And we have difference-makers on the outside."
The Broncos didn't get their first touchdown from outside the 9-yard line last season until their sixth game, and their offense didn't score from outside the 20 until its 10th game.
In reassessing the offense for this season, the Broncos' offensive brain trust first looked at its talent. Cutler was a first-round pick. Marshall plays like he should have been a first-round pick. "Receiving" tight end Tony Scheffler and rookie wide receiver Eddie Royal were second-round picks.
Meanwhile, the Broncos have an undrafted tailback committee of Selvin Young, Andre Hall and possibly Anthony Alridge. All are quick, smaller backs capable of inflicting significant damage in eight to 12 carries a game.
But having stars at the passing positions and complementary-type runners at tailback doesn't logically add up to 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
"Right now a strong part of our offense is the passing game," said Daniel Graham, Denver's "blocking" tight end. "But we're eventually going to have to get the running game going because when it gets colder out here, you'll have to run that ball."
Evolution of balance
Since Shanahan took charge in 1995, the Broncos have been a balanced offense that leaned slightly toward running the ball.
"That's not necessarily true," Cutler said. "Watching a lot of clips from three, four, five years ago, they were in a lot of empty sets. They were throwing all over the place, especially with Elway, they threw their fair share of deep balls and empty sets."
For a third-year quarterback who grew up in the South, Cutler has a decent grasp of Broncos history. John Elway has been retired for almost 10 years, but he did throw the ball deep, sometimes to the far right after scrambling left. Even from 1999-2002, when Brian Griese was the quarterback, the Broncos threw more than they ran, although rarely did a pass go deep. It was really during the four-year Jake Plummer era that Shanahan reshaped his offense into primarily a run-first, run-on-third-and-3,
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0819/20080819__20080820_CC01_SP20FBNBRONX~p2_200.JPG (http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=2066641 ) Jay Cutler passed for 3,497 yards and 20 touchdowns last season, just his second year in the NFL. (Doug Pensinger, Getty Images )


mix-in-the-play-action-rollout scheme. And it mostly worked. The Broncos went 39-15 with Plummer as their starter.

But it was also in the Plummer years that the Broncos reinforced their offensive identity as zone-blocking, one-cut rushing system — an identity that's carried with honor at Dove Valley, even as the current offense is clearly built around a strong-armed quarterback.
"The history of the running game here has been a weapon," Bates said. "It's feared by every defensive coordinator in the league. That does open the passing game up a little bit. Teams are a little more hesitant to pressure us as much as other teams because we run the ball on third-and-5 and get the first down. Some of the passing game is the result of our run game is so good."
From an objective distance, former Broncos guard and ESPN football analyst Mark Schlereth had a different perspective on the Broncos' first two preseason games. He noticed fullback Cecil Sapp and Graham staying in on most plays for extra protection. With the inexperienced Ryan Harris at right tackle and Ryan Clady at left tackle, Schlereth believes the Broncos are throwing more in the preseason because they want to sort out their protection packages.
"I think the Broncos feel pretty confident that they know how to run the ball," Schlereth said. "I think you'll still see the Broncos run the ball 25 to 30 times a game. It just might be three guys who get those carries."
A running game is relative in today's NFL. On average, 55 percent of the league's plays last year were passes. And it wasn't just the losing teams throwing while trying to catch up. Green Bay and Dallas both finished 13-3 last year while employing a 60-40, pass-run ratio. New England, 18-0 until the Super Bowl, threw until it built huge second-half leads, at which point it sometimes mixed in running plays.
Those three teams were quarterbacked by Brett Favre, Tony Romo and Tom Brady, respectively. With Cutler as the Broncos' quarterback, Shanahan can call passes 30 out of 44 plays and score touchdowns three out of four times. "I don't think we're going to be one of those teams that will drop back and throw every play, like New England did last year," Stokley said. "But as I've been around a year now, I see Jay becoming more and more that guy that can take over a game. He hasn't done anything to make you believe otherwise with those first two preseason games."

gobroncsnv
08-20-2008, 07:13 AM
Could well be that we'll pass more... definitely have the tools for it. While Jake was here, he was absolutely best while in motion, but he didn't have the receiver corps that (so far, it appears) that Jay has, and no question that Jay has the better arm. Our run game was our strongest suit back then.

Certainly, last year anyway, it could easily be argued that Jay didn't have the running game available to him that Jake had. Obviously, a big part of that has to be credited (debited?) to our patchwork line last year. And from the sound of things, we may well prove that our RB's are better this year than last, as well.

The way the games have panned out, to date, our passing game IS ahead of our run game. JAY knows his reads better, there's more surety with his targets... I think Shanny is loving this, that defenses have to honor our passing more, and in time, the running game will be that much more open. Stretch the defense, then take what they give you. If they try 8 in the box this year, they'll feel more pain.

lex
08-20-2008, 07:42 AM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=302510&postcount=1

I think Shanahan is trying to give Cutler every opportunity to succeed in spite of our past MO being running the ball. Hopefully next year and in 2010, we can follow up by augmenting the running game to get it on board with where it was about 10 years ago when we had a HOF QB but still dictated terms by running the ball. If you can do that, its an enormous advantage. I think we will be better at passing than at running. Even though the play distribution might be the same, I think we will be stronger at passing. But also, I really wish we would use our own past success as a template for remaking our team and not looking at others. Theres no one way to win and we had some all time great offensive teams in the late 90s. Scoring 500 points running as often as we did is more impressive than what the Vikings of 98 and the Pats of 07 did. I think the lack of balance eventually bit NE in the but. NYG stopped NEs token attempts at running the ball early and once they did that, they knew NE would go back to being a pass happy team and the front 4 could pin their ears back.

EastCoastBronco
08-20-2008, 07:54 AM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=302510&postcount=1

I think Shanahan is trying to give Cutler every opportunity to succeed in spite of our past MO being running the ball. Hopefully next year and in 2010, we can follow up by augmenting the running game to get it on board with where it was about 10 years ago when we had a HOF QB but still dictated terms by running the ball. If you can do that, its an enormous advantage. I think we will be better at passing than at running. Even though the play distribution might be the same, I think we will be stronger at passing. But also, I really wish we would use our own past success as a template for remaking our team and not looking at others. Theres no one way to win and we had some all time great offensive teams in the late 90s. Scoring 500 points running as often as we did is more impressive than what the Vikings of 98 and the Pats of 07 did. I think the lack of balance eventually bit NE in the but. NYG stopped NEs token attempts at running the ball early and once they did that, they knew NE would go back to being a pass happy team and the front 4 could pin their ears back.


Get the pasing game working and the running game will take care of itself. It sounds cliche but it's true. Look at the receiving corps we had when TD was running his ass off. Smith, McCaffrey, Sharpe... Add to that a cannon armed QB who can stretch the field and you've got a great mix. If Marshall can get his head out of his ass once and for all when he's on his Goodell imposed vacation he will be the cornerstone for our new super receiving corps. Royal has the moxie and if Scheff can stay healthy he has a ton of potential. If Cutler can get the fires lit with that crew, the running game will return to its former glory...

lex
08-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Get the pasing game working and the running game will take care of itself. It sounds cliche but it's true. Look at the receiving corps we had when TD was running his ass off. Smith, McCaffrey, Sharpe... Add to that a cannon armed QB who can strtch the field and you've got a great mix. If Marshall can get his head out of his ass once and for all when he's on his Goodell imposed vacation he will be the cornerstone for our new super receiving corps. Royal has the moxie and if Scheff can stay healthy he has a ton of potential. If Cutler can get the fires lit with that crew, the running game will return to its former glory...

Im not disagreeing with you that getting the passing game going will help the running game. Thats how it works. But I find your reference to the past somewhat erroneous when you consider that we were a run first team at that time. Consider that in SB XXXII against Green Bay, Rod Smith did not have one reception. Also, consider that in 97 and 98 our RB had over 100 yards in every post season game. Im not sure how many times Elway had over 300 yards because that wasnt really what we emphasized. Also, obviously, you can point to the fact that our RB had over 1700 yards followed by 2000 yards. Our running game was so good that Bubby Brister actually had a higher QB rating than Elway in 1998. Having a great running game is the only way that happens. If we would have been a pass first team, theres no way that happens. In any case, in those years our running game set up not only our passing game but also our defense since we were so adept at scoring early and getting the running game going, opponents felt pressure early and often made them one dimensional. I mean, if youre playing the Broncos and theyre running the ball down at will and youre down 21-3, why would you think you can come back by running the ball when you yourself cant even stop their run?

Shazam!
08-20-2008, 11:52 AM
You have to adept to what your players provide you with best.

The difference? Cutler.

This is a good sign for things to come.

jrelway
08-20-2008, 11:54 AM
pass good, you run good also...run good, your pass opens up. either way, i like our offense right now.

BeefStew25
08-20-2008, 12:30 PM
We have the QB and the WR's (barring a Marshall four state murder spree).

When the right RB comes along, I think it is something we would pounce on.

What is the right running back? None of us know, because none of us know shit.

Except that Eddie Royal is only a kick returner.

Lonestar
08-20-2008, 01:30 PM
I just do not see mikey changing his tiger stripes..

Unless the RB or OLINE take the Running game out of the equation. HE like TOP and you get that by pounding the ball and keeping the clock running.. If you have the ball they can't score..

We might throw a bit more in first down than we did but mikey is not going to become a leopard

underrated29
08-20-2008, 01:46 PM
yeah its hard for him to change his stripes. you are right.

However, this year i think we are going to see a butt load of screens. Now would you call them passes or runs (the screens to the rbs)? technically passes, but those go a long ways.

Also torain hasnt been placed on IR yet, of course there is still time to wait and see, but he might be the back to keep our run games dominant.

For now though i think shanny is mimmicking the Indy offense. Tons and Tons of 3 wr sets. Pass all day long if you want, have the single back to make the big runs, and the te's going long too. That type of offense right now is just way to hard to stop. We ahve the guys to pull it off, and i think he is going to do it, until we get torain back or one of the other rbs step it up big time.

ktrain
08-20-2008, 04:25 PM
Could well be that we'll pass more... definitely have the tools for it. While Jake was here, he was absolutely best while in motion, but he didn't have the receiver corps that (so far, it appears) that Jay has, and no question that Jay has the better arm. Our run game was our strongest suit back then.

Certainly, last year anyway, it could easily be argued that Jay didn't have the running game available to him that Jake had. Obviously, a big part of that has to be credited (debited?) to our patchwork line last year. And from the sound of things, we may well prove that our RB's are better this year than last, as well.

The way the games have panned out, to date, our passing game IS ahead of our run game. Jake knows his reads better, there's more surety with his targets... I think Shanny is loving this, that defenses have to honor our passing more, and in time, the running game will be that much more open. Stretch the defense, then take what they give you. If they try 8 in the box this year, they'll feel more pain.

Do you mean "Jay" knows his reads better? I never thought Jake was all that good at reads, I think that held him back somewhat

omac
08-20-2008, 06:07 PM
Do you mean "Jay" knows his reads better? I never thought Jake was all that good at reads, I think that held him back somewhat

Yeah, that's probably what he meant. I think people were just assuming that's what he meant, to make sure the thread does not get derailed, if you know what I mean.

omac
08-20-2008, 06:12 PM
yeah its hard for him to change his stripes. you are right.

However, this year i think we are going to see a butt load of screens. Now would you call them passes or runs (the screens to the rbs)? technically passes, but those go a long ways.

Also torain hasnt been placed on IR yet, of course there is still time to wait and see, but he might be the back to keep our run games dominant.

For now though i think shanny is mimmicking the Indy offense. Tons and Tons of 3 wr sets. Pass all day long if you want, have the single back to make the big runs, and the te's going long too. That type of offense right now is just way to hard to stop. We ahve the guys to pull it off, and i think he is going to do it, until we get torain back or one of the other rbs step it up big time.

Good points. :salute:

I agree with the screens, and probably the short slants or somewhat lateral passes to Marshall are almost like running plays, because he's like a RB when he goes against corners, they having such a hard time bringing him down.

The tons of 3 wr sets will probably depend on how well the pass protection goes in the regular season. If it's as good as Brady's or Peyton's, then good, but if it's as poor as Martz' was for Kitna and the Lions last season, no thanks. :D

SarahKay
08-20-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm all about the passing game. Look forward to seeing what we can do. This should be an exciting year.

On that note.. I do hope we stick to the ground game like we always have as well.. Hopefully we can get something stable going.

gobroncsnv
08-20-2008, 08:14 PM
Do you mean "Jay" knows his reads better? I never thought Jake was all that good at reads, I think that held him back somewhat


Yeah, it was early, and the coffee hadn't turned me back to Dr Jekyll yet... good catch.

scott.475
08-20-2008, 08:39 PM
During our SB runs, didn't Mike change back and forth at will? I mean, when teams came at us to stop the run, we simply went to the air, and vice-versa. In SB33 the Falcons threw all they had at stopping the run, so we just went to the air. Granted, we had the QB to make the throws and the RB to make defenses fear the run, but I have to say I think we were equally adept at both.

Now, we again have a QB to establish an excellent air attack, hopefully our backfield has the ability to make teams respect the run.

I don't think Mike is changing his stripes at all by going back to more passing, just that until now we have not really had the QB talent to convincingly pull it off, IMO.

Lonestar
08-20-2008, 08:43 PM
During our SB runs, didn't Mike change back and forth at will? I mean, when teams came at us to stop the run, we simply went to the air, and vice-versa. In SB33 the Falcons threw all they had at stopping the run, so we just went to the air. Granted, we had the QB to make the throws and the RB to make defenses fear the run, but I have to say I think we were equally adept at both.

Now, we again have a QB to establish an excellent air attack, hopefully our backfield has the ability to make teams respect the run.

I don't think Mike is changing his stripes at all by going back to more passing, just that until now we have not really had the QB talent to convincingly pull it off, IMO.



I think since Eddie got hurt in 2001 and Sharpe left, all we really had was Rod and a bunch of who cares..

You can a have a great QB with no one to throw to OR NO TIME to throw..

lex
08-20-2008, 09:19 PM
During our SB runs, didn't Mike change back and forth at will? I mean, when teams came at us to stop the run, we simply went to the air, and vice-versa. In SB33 the Falcons threw all they had at stopping the run, so we just went to the air. Granted, we had the QB to make the throws and the RB to make defenses fear the run, but I have to say I think we were equally adept at both.

Now, we again have a QB to establish an excellent air attack, hopefully our backfield has the ability to make teams respect the run.

I don't think Mike is changing his stripes at all by going back to more passing, just that until now we have not really had the QB talent to convincingly pull it off, IMO.

We were more adept at running. We went up against Pittsburgh and Kansas City in 1997 and won both games and we were better at running in those games. Same with Green Bay. Even the super bowl youre referencing saw Terrell gain 100 yards. Plus at what point during those seasons did Elway ever come close to reaching 5000 yards passing? He didnt but Terrell Davis did break 2000 yards in the equivalent of 14 games.

scott.475
08-20-2008, 09:35 PM
We were more adept at running. We went up against Pittsburgh and Kansas City in 1997 and won both games and we were better at running in those games. Same with Green Bay. Even the super bowl youre referencing saw Terrell gain 100 yards. Plus at what point during those seasons did Elway ever come close to reaching 5000 yards passing? He didnt but Terrell Davis did break 2000 yards in the equivalent of 14 games.

5,000 yards? He went over 4,000 just once in his career. My point is that Elway had long been established as a great passing/rushing QB, even on several failry untalented teams. Teams did not really need to game plan around our rushing attack because it was not great, and we did not have a lot of stellar supporting cast in other areas. If they could shut down John, they could shut down the team. With the arrival of TD and a new scheme, it took a lot of pressure off John and out passing game. So yes, we obviously had an excellent running game, but we also had an excellent passing game. I am simply saying that John was a good enough passer, and we had good enough receivers, that if a team came in hard against our run, we just went to the air without much trouble and vice-versa. Nothing wrong with trying to get back to that.

In SB32 TD ran for 157 and 3 TDs, Elway was only 12/22 for 123 because GB could not stop our run.
In SB33 the Falcons goal was to stop the run, so TD had 102 yards and no TD (though Griffith had 2), but John was 18/29 for 336 yards because we were able to so easily transition from run to pass (and the Falcons had no idea what they were doing).

Again, all I am saying is that we were balanced and could switch emphasis fairly easily then, and it would be awesome if we could get back to that.