Does the Monday night hinge on Orton outdueling Rivers?

[Jake Klug]

OK, Denver hasnt exactly generated a lot of pass rush this year. This week they dropped Moss and brought in Veikune, possibly revealing how dire the circumstances are on defense when going against Rivers.

Does this game, more or less, come down to Orton outdueling Rivers? Orton has pissed down his leg a lot in game winning situations, in spite of amassing stats. But do you think this game is a true test for and squarely on Orton?

[Northman]

Probably. But if Philip and company get off to a slow start like they have been we might be able to beat them.

[The Glue Factory]

No. It comes down to how our D deals with Rivers. I think our O is better than their D.

[shank]

i don't understand why cutting a 100% unproductive player is desperate or dire... to me, it reeks of logic.

[slim]

i don't understand why cutting a 100% unproductive player is desperate or dire... to me, it reeks of logic.

A back up LB/pass rush specialist that can't rush the passer or play special teams.

I am shocked that he was cut.

[rcsodak]

i don't understand why cutting a 100% unproductive player is desperate or dire... to me, it reeks of logic.
....but you're not blind or unrealistic, soooo......
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[rcsodak]

its up to whichever team can slow down the other. SD has #2(?) D. Can the Oline's new found success translate to a win? JW needs to be a disruptive force in the middle. Cox needs to make a play or 7. Champ needs to be champ. Knomo needs to continue his string of td's.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[TimTebow15MVP]

Its going to come down to us finding a way to harass rivers in the pocket. If not champ bailey is gonna get roasted by somebody. rivers loves throwing at champ. so he better be ready.

Orton and our offense will torch the san diego defense who will be sluggish off a bye week.

[dogfish]

if our defense and running game perform as well as theirs, then certainly. . . if we give up the ass on D and rush for 1 stinking yard per carry like we have most of this year, then it's stupid to expect orton to win games by himself. . . it was stupid when people blamed cutler for not winning more games despite horrible defense, and it's just as retarded with orton or any other QB. . . it's denver vs. san diego, not orton vs. rivers-- football is a team sport. . .

[rcsodak]

i don't understand why cutting a 100% unproductive player is desperate or dire... to me, it reeks of logic.
somebody's learned a new word, and is using it at every opportunity. :coffee:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Ziggy]

football is a team sport. . .

Lies!

Seriously though, if Denver's Oline can open lanes for Moreno and the Broncos can run the ball successfully, this team can play with anyone.

My question is which defense will Wink call on Monday? Last week was more akin to the Buddy/Rex Ryan attack defenses than the usual 2010 Broncos bend and then break version. Was it because we had an early lead, or because he decided it was time to actually start attacking offenses? I hope it's the latter.

[Jake Klug]

if our defense and running game perform as well as theirs, then certainly. . . if we give up the ass on D and rush for 1 stinking yard per carry like we have most of this year, then it's stupid to expect orton to win games by himself. . . it was stupid when people blamed cutler for not winning more games despite horrible defense, and it's just as retarded with orton or any other QB. . . it's denver vs. san diego, not orton vs. rivers-- football is a team sport. . .

Except if the defense generates no pass rush and the running game struggles, which is very possible (as you pointed out), doesnt it pretty much come down to Orton vs Rivers...fair or not? If it does come down to that, this will be an opportunity for Orton to put some substance to his stats.

And Im not saying there are no other scenarios for Denver winning, but when you look at it, it seems like this is the most likely scenario.

I agree with your sentiment that football is a team sport and I agree in rejecting the inflated significance of wins and losses as a benchmark but for this one game, it looks like the game hinges on the performance of the QBs moreso than most games.

[Nomad]

Lies!

Seriously though, if Denver's Oline can open lanes for Moreno and the Broncos can run the ball successfully, this team can play with anyone.

My question is which defense will Wink call on Monday? Last week was more akin to the Buddy/Rex Ryan attack defenses than the usual 2010 Broncos bend and then break version. Was it because we had an early lead, or because he decided it was time to actually start attacking offenses? I hope it's the latter.

I agree!!! Jaworski is really impressed with Orton's ability at the play action pass. I listened to him over the week talk about it. But main thing is to outscore them and I believe the offense can score, it'll be the defense's time to step up and pressure River's though he is tough to bring down! I believe the BRONCOS win this game!

[T.K.O.]

rivers and orton are both "stat kings" this year....it's the battle of the all star yardmasters !
i just hope royal gets a couple huge returns like last year and that should be enough to move up in the division.

denver 34
sd 23

:elefant::beer:

[broncobryce]

Home teams are 13-3 coming off the bye this season..............

[TimTebow15MVP]

Home teams are 13-3 coming off the bye this season..............

too bad it wont matter monday night.

[Dzone]

Tebow to play a big role in Monday Night Victory!

[dogfish]

Except if the defense generates no pass rush and the running game struggles, which is very possible (as you pointed out), doesnt it pretty much come down to Orton vs Rivers...fair or not?

unfortunately, i'd say it only works that way if their running game and defense also struggle. . . otherwise, it's more like orton vs. san diego, just like it's been orton and lloyd vs. more than a few teams this year. . .



If it does come down to that, this will be an opportunity for Orton to put some substance to his stats.

that's certainly true, there's no reason you can't win a game you're not supposed to. . . there are a few guys even in the NFL that are good enough to take over games with transcendant performances-- not very frequently, though. . . that's one of the differences between being a damn good player and a truly great one, and though i absolutely think orton fits in the former category, you obviously can't put him in the latter yet. . .

still, i think the suggestion that we should trade orton because he's "not great" or "not a guy that can put a team on his shoulders/carry a team/[insert cliche here]/whatever, and tebow might be that guy-- a suggestion that i've seen several people here make :doh:-- is more or less retarded. . . you just don't DO that shit, not if you're serious about building a real, competitive pro football team and not just daydreaming like dan snyder. . .

nope. . . you take your pretty damn good quarterback and put more talent around him. . . you give him a running game that's better than dead worst in the league, and give him a defense that can consistently rank in the top 12-15 or so, at least. . . you put together a reliable special teams that won't lose games for you (lonie paxton, jarvis moss, looking in your direction). . . you put weapons around the QB-- in this case we need another solid running back (ideally a guy with some real speed), and hopefully at some point a TE that can be some type of factor in the passing game. . . although the latter's not a real high priority. . .

you absolutely DON'T blow up the thing that's working best for you out of ridiculous impatience. . . instead of going all-or-nothing for that needle in a haystack QB that can consistently put a bunch of stiffs on his shoulders, you go out and get some supporting cast that aren't stiffs so the QB doesn't have to play atlas every weekend. . .

besides which, orton's had some nice games the year-and-a-half he's been here. . . he played damn good against new england last season, and clearly he dominated kansas city last weekend. . . it's probably not a coincidence that those were both games that you know JMFMCD gameplanned very thoroughly in advance. . . i hope we can come out with more of that same type of playcalling this weekend. . .

but yea, no question this game should give him another good chance to show what he can do. . . realistically, it may well take another couple years to REALLY evaluate orton, and that's obviously IF he stays here and continues to start. . . but IMO, you can never fully judge a guy until he gets in some playoff games for you, so we'll see if we get the chance to judge kyle under thse circumstances. . .

i think the rush to get tebow in is silly. . . everybody knew he was something of a developmental project, stop being so impatient. . . can't people just be happy he's contributing? mcdaniels is doing it the right way, bringing him along slowly and not putting too much on his plate. . . in this complex scheme, tim's getting an invaluable opportunity to watch a competent pro run the offense-- and time to watch film, work on his mechanics, and study the playbook. . . every time he goes out there in the wild jesus, he's getting a chance to read the defense both pre- and post-snap, control the huddle, etc. . . with his work habits, we can be sure he's making the most of every chance-- not to mention throwing to guys like thomas and decker in practice. . . the chemistry they develop could be quite an asset down the road. . . things like that are the reason i still want to see mcdaniels prove that he's good enough to keep his job and let that type of stuff come to fruition in a couple of years. . . anyway. . .




And Im not saying there are no other scenarios for Denver winning, but when you look at it, it seems like this is the most likely scenario.

can't argue that. . .

[jhildebrand]

Special Teams and Defense will win this game.

[atwater27]

Both QB's will go over 400 yards passing. Maybe 500.

[broncofaninfla]

OK, Denver hasnt exactly generated a lot of pass rush this year. This week they dropped Moss and brought in Veikune, possibly revealing how dire the circumstances are on defense when going against Rivers.

Does this game, more or less, come down to Orton outdueling Rivers? Orton has pissed down his leg a lot in game winning situations, in spite of amassing stats. But do you think this game is a true test for and squarely on Orton?

First of all, great question. :beer:

I think Denver would certainly lose if we get into a shoot out situation. Denver will need another complete game effort, offense, defense, special teams and coaching to win Monday night. Denver has shown all year long that when one at least phase is not working, they are more prone to lose than win. This is crunch time football, every phase needs to work or you won't beat good teams. Denver has to continue to do what it did against KC last week and get better week by week.

[Jake Klug]

First of all, great question. :beer:

I think Denver would certainly lose if we get into a shoot out situation. Denver will need another complete game effort, offense, defense, special teams and coaching to win Monday night. Denver has shown all year long that when one at least phase is not working, they are more prone to lose than win. This is crunch time football, every phase needs to work or you won't beat good teams. Denver has to continue to do what it did against KC last week and get better week by week.

If Denver is not able to get a pass rush on Rivers, then how is it not a shootout? Like I said, this isnt the only scenario but it really seems like the most likely scenario.

[EastCoastBronco]

It comes down to one word... ATTACK.
We came out of the gates last week ATTACKING on both sides of the ball.
It was a "nothing to lose" game plan.
We need to play every damn week on BOTH sides of the ball like we have nothing to lose.
Orton can throw with any QB in the league. Let him heave it. ATTACK.
When our O line and RB are healthy we can run with anyone in the league. ATTACK.
Our D proved last week that when they are cut loose they can wreak havoc. ATTACK.
We can only hope that McMuffin and Wink have finally realized this and come out of the gates firing. ATTACK.

As my sig has suggested for years, I would rather see this team go down with their guns blazing than to see them trying to play a game of chess on the field. ATTACK.

That's all I have to say about that.

Bring on Phyllis and the Chargers...

[horsepig]

unfortunately, i'd say it only works that way if their running game and defense also struggle. . . otherwise, it's more like orton vs. san diego, just like it's been orton and lloyd vs. more than a few teams this year. . .




that's certainly true, there's no reason you can't win a game you're not supposed to. . . there are a few guys even in the NFL that are good enough to take over games with transcendant performances-- not very frequently, though. . . that's one of the differences between being a damn good player and a truly great one, and though i absolutely think orton fits in the former category, you obviously can't put him in the latter yet. . .

still, i think the suggestion that we should trade orton because he's "not great" or "not a guy that can put a team on his shoulders/carry a team/[insert cliche here]/whatever, and tebow might be that guy-- a suggestion that i've seen several people here make :doh:-- is more or less retarded. . . you just don't DO that shit, not if you're serious about building a real, competitive pro football team and not just daydreaming like dan snyder. . .

nope. . . you take your pretty damn good quarterback and put more talent around him. . . you give him a running game that's better than dead worst in the league, and give him a defense that can consistently rank in the top 12-15 or so, at least. . . you put together a reliable special teams that won't lose games for you (lonie paxton, jarvis moss, looking in your direction). . . you put weapons around the QB-- in this case we need another solid running back (ideally a guy with some real speed), and hopefully at some point a TE that can be some type of factor in the passing game. . . although the latter's not a real high priority. . .

you absolutely DON'T blow up the thing that's working best for you out of ridiculous impatience. . . instead of going all-or-nothing for that needle in a haystack QB that can consistently put a bunch of stiffs on his shoulders, you go out and get some supporting cast that aren't stiffs so the QB doesn't have to play atlas every weekend. . .

besides which, orton's had some nice games the year-and-a-half he's been here. . . he played damn good against new england last season, and clearly he dominated kansas city last weekend. . . it's probably not a coincidence that those were both games that you know JMFMCD gameplanned very thoroughly in advance. . . i hope we can come out with more of that same type of playcalling this weekend. . .

but yea, no question this game should give him another good chance to show what he can do. . . realistically, it may well take another couple years to REALLY evaluate orton, and that's obviously IF he stays here and continues to start. . . but IMO, you can never fully judge a guy until he gets in some playoff games for you, so we'll see if we get the chance to judge kyle under thse circumstances. . .

i think the rush to get tebow in is silly. . . everybody knew he was something of a developmental project, stop being so impatient. . . can't people just be happy he's contributing? mcdaniels is doing it the right way, bringing him along slowly and not putting too much on his plate. . . in this complex scheme, tim's getting an invaluable opportunity to watch a competent pro run the offense-- and time to watch film, work on his mechanics, and study the playbook. . . every time he goes out there in the wild jesus, he's getting a chance to read the defense both pre- and post-snap, control the huddle, etc. . . with his work habits, we can be sure he's making the most of every chance-- not to mention throwing to guys like thomas and decker in practice. . . the chemistry they develop could be quite an asset down the road. . . things like that are the reason i still want to see mcdaniels prove that he's good enough to keep his job and let that type of stuff come to fruition in a couple of years. . . anyway. . .





can't argue that. . .

I disagree a little about Tebow, I'd just like to see him getsome more work, and I don't mean "throwing him to the wolves".

The Wild Jesus- LMFAO.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I disagree a little about Tebow, I'd just like to see him getsome more work, and I don't mean "throwing him to the wolves".

The Wild Jesus- LMFAO.

If and when we lose the next game... and we are out of it...
then it is obviously time to invest in Tebow's development on a much larger scale.
Agreed... in the games left of a throwaway season he needs to

-practice with the first team
-have a game plan designed for his skill set
-be named the starter so he can get up for the experience all week.

It should happen once we are mathematicly out of it.

Till then... expect more of the same we have seen.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Assuming both teams have success moving the ball and scoring, etc...
I think this game will come down to...

- Special teams and winning the field position battle
- Turnovers

It very well might end up that the team who has the ball
in the final minutes and scores wins this game.

[rcsodak]

If and when we lose the next game... and we are out of it...
then it is obviously time to invest in Tebow's development on a much larger scale.
Agreed... in the games left of a throwaway season he needs to

-practice with the first team
-have a game plan designed for his skill set
-be named the starter so he can get up for the experience all week.

It should happen once we are mathematicly out of it.

Till then... expect more of the same we have seen.

I disagree, Dave.
Orton is still the starting qb.
Orton is still under contract.
Orton is playing at a Pro Bowl level.
Orton is signed through 2011.

All that said, even if you DO want TT to be the qb next year, you still have Orton to deal with. You don't simply pull him so TT can get reps. What's that say about Orton to other teams IF McD is actually going to try and trade him next year (which I'm now questioning).

Part of me thinks McD might decide to keep Orton. Part of me thinks McD might feel he's in a pickle.

But nontheless, benching Orton, season mathematically over or not, is NOT the answer. IMHO.

[dogfish]

I disagree, Dave.
Orton is still the starting qb.
Orton is still under contract.
Orton is playing at a Pro Bowl level.
Orton is signed through 2011.

All that said, even if you DO want TT to be the qb next year, you still have Orton to deal with. You don't simply pull him so TT can get reps. What's that say about Orton to other teams IF McD is actually going to try and trade him next year (which I'm now questioning).

Part of me thinks McD might decide to keep Orton. Part of me thinks McD might feel he's in a pickle.

But nontheless, benching Orton, season mathematically over or not, is NOT the answer. IMHO.

absolutely. . . dave, what's tebow going to do next year that orton's not doing right now, other than be more mobile? why be in such a hurry to kick a proven commodity to the curb for an unknown, however promising? is tebow going to have the sick chemistry with lloyd that kyle does right now? is four or five games this year going to teach tim to read defenses and master josh's complicated playbook to the point where he can process it all quickly enough to run the offense as efficiently as kyle is right now, while also avoiding turnovers?

i just don't see it. . . i certainly do want them to get tim involved, but let it happen in the flow of the offense. . . we need to end a season with some momentum for freakin' once-- this team needs to do that, to figure out HOW to do that and prove to themselves that they can. . . that won't happen with a rookie QB in, and i don't think it's in the best interest of the team as a whole. . . tim's an asset, but talented first round QB or not, he's just one guy out of 53. . .

IMO, a better idea is working that big beast D thomas into the passing game, and that's best accomplished with a vet QB at the helm. . . i also want to get knowshon and our run blocking into some type of groove, and that won't happen with a rookie QB in either. . . IMO this just isn't the right time for tebow time, and i'm pretty sure JMFMCD sees it the same way. . . he's said in his pressers that orton's playing too well to take him off the field on any type of regular basis. . .

[PAINTERDAVE]

I know you guys are on the other side of the issue...
and you have valid points.

I got no power or control.

It will be what McD decides.

That said... don't be surprised if Tebow becomes the Chosen One...
And I wont be surprised if Orton sticks and does not get traded.

It will go one way or the other... but if I was a betting man...
I'd bet on Tebow geting his shot sooner rather than later.

Time will tell.

[Canmore]

I know you guys are on the other side of the issue...
and you have valid points.

I got no power or control.

It will be what McD decides.

That said... don't be surprised if Tebow becomes the Chosen One...
And I wont be surprised if Orton sticks and does not get traded.

It will go one way or the other... but if I was a betting man...
I'd bet on Tebow geting his shot sooner rather than later.

Time will tell.

When is sooner? This year...next year...when?

[BCJ]

Except if the defense generates no pass rush and the running game struggles, which is very possible (as you pointed out), doesnt it pretty much come down to Orton vs Rivers...fair or not? If it does come down to that, this will be an opportunity for Orton to put some substance to his stats.

And Im not saying there are no other scenarios for Denver winning, but when you look at it, it seems like this is the most likely scenario.

I agree with your sentiment that football is a team sport and I agree in rejecting the inflated significance of wins and losses as a benchmark but for this one game, it looks like the game hinges on the performance of the QBs moreso than most games.

problem with this scenario is Rivers doesnt play against Orton but Denver's defense and vise versa for Orton. You cant compare the two like in Basketball when you play both offense and defense. I would rather have Rivers have a good game and lose than for Orton to give us 400 yards and the Broncos lose by 14. I dont want Orton to look like sheat but I am not playing fantasy football with the players. I just want a win.

[BoltWalt]

The Chargers will roll to a 44-17 victory.

Chargers 44
Broncos 17

[Jake Klug]

The Chargers will roll to a 44-17 victory.

Chargers 44
Broncos 17

It kind of seems like the Chargers are more likely candidates to move to LA. How do you feel about that?

[Jake Klug]

problem with this scenario is Rivers doesnt play against Orton but Denver's defense and vise versa for Orton. You cant compare the two like in Basketball when you play both offense and defense. I would rather have Rivers have a good game and lose than for Orton to give us 400 yards and the Broncos lose by 14. I dont want Orton to look like sheat but I am not playing fantasy football with the players. I just want a win.

That was really profound insight. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. The fact that Rivers is going against a defense that typically generates little pass rush, kind of puts the game on Orton's shoulders to match what Rivers does.

The topic wasnt this assertion that the two are going at each other like its one on one basketball.

[nevcraw]

1. Got to score early
2. can't make the boneheaded mistakes that stall drives
3. short 3rd down conversions
4. have to get a few 3 and outs on D
5. Don;t let sproles take over on ST.

[BCJ]

That was really profound insight. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. The fact that Rivers is going against a defense that typically generates little pass rush, kind of puts the game on Orton's shoulders to match what Rivers does.

The topic wasnt this assertion that the two are going at each other like its one on one basketball.

He dimwit (Mockism), here is your quote...


Does this game, more or less, come down to Orton outdueling Rivers? Orton has pissed down his leg a lot in game winning situations, in spite of amassing stats. But do you think this game is a true test for and squarely on Orton?

You stated it. Orton needs to outduel Rivers. Next time, dont put that in your post if you dont want the type of response I gave you.

[topscribe]

The Broncos found a pass rush last week. The Chargers have been
horrendous in protecting the passer. Advantage Broncos.

The Broncos found a running game last week. The Chargers appear still status
quo there. And Matthews is doubtful for the game. Advantage Broncos.

The Broncos offensive line is finally healthy, after all three of its veterans
had been fighting injuries during the same time. The Chargers are status
quo. Advantage Broncos.

Quarterbacks: Rivers #1, Orton #2: a wash.

But Gates is hurt and Jackson is not yet back. Advantage Broncos.

And defensive backfields. Advantage Broncos.

Result: When the last second ticks off the clock tonight, the Broncos will
have won two in a row . . .

-----

[BroncoAV06]

They did run the ball well last week but the question is can they do it again? I see it being a battle between Rivers and Orton, not having Gates or Jackson has not been a problem for Rivers at all.

Key is special teams the reason the Chargers have lost the majority of their games. Can Denver break through block a kick, return a kick that can swing the momentum and get the Chargers thinking, uh oh not again.

[arapaho2]

The Broncos found a pass rush last week. The Chargers have been
horrendous in protecting the passer. Advantage Broncos.

The Broncos found a running game last week. The Chargers appear still status
quo there. And Matthews is doubtful for the game. Advantage Broncos.

The Broncos offensive line is finally healthy, after all three of its veterans
had been fighting injuries during the same time. The Chargers are status
quo. Advantage Broncos.

Quarterbacks: Rivers #1, Orton #2: a wash.

But Gates is hurt and Jackson is not yet back. Advantage Broncos.

And defensive backfields. Advantage Broncos.

Result: When the last second ticks off the clock tonight, the Broncos will
have won two in a row . . .

-----

pass the koolaid top :lol: your hogging it

top we are the 31st ranked team in sacks ...just because we had some early success in that last game does not equal " we are suddenly a sack machine"

the SD line is horrendous ??? well given the fact they have only allowed 1 more sack than have the broncos...i would call the bronco line just as hideous...compounded by the fact the sd defense has 27 sacks...to our 13

id say the advantage in oline play easily goes to the bolts

as for the running game...we had 1...1 good game!!...it does not equal we are suddenly a great running team...we need to see consistancy before i say our 32nd rush offense has the edge over the bolts 17th

oline is finaly healthy...:beer:
as for qbs being a wash....pretty close, until the game is on the line and you gotta make a play...then its rivers by a land slide

as for the broncos Db having the edge?...the bolts are the #1 passing defense...the broncos 19th....the bolts have given up a mere 8 passing TDS...the broncos 16...they have 8 picks to our 5...they keep the opposing qbs to a average of 74.5 passer rating...to our 97.9

i really cant see where we have the advantage

dont wanna be a debbie downer top but geesh ...drop the blatent homerism

the broncos will have to play a near perfect game to come out of the q with a w...can we?

[Jake Klug]

He dimwit (Mockism), here is your quote...



You stated it. Orton needs to outduel Rivers. Next time, dont put that in your post if you dont want the type of response I gave you.

Not duel as in Hamilton verses Burr. You're really struggling with something that's not that hard to conceptualize.

[Poet]

I think it hinges on getting a pass rush on Rivers and containing Gates.

I wish I could be more profound, but imo that's pretty much it.

[topscribe]

pass the koolaid top :lol: your hogging it

top we are the 31st ranked team in sacks ...just because we had some early success in that last game does not equal " we are suddenly a sack machine"

the SD line is horrendous ??? well given the fact they have only allowed 1 more sack than have the broncos...i would call the bronco line just as hideous...compounded by the fact the sd defense has 27 sacks...to our 13

id say the advantage in oline play easily goes to the bolts

as for the running game...we had 1...1 good game!!...it does not equal we are suddenly a great running team...we need to see consistancy before i say our 32nd rush offense has the edge over the bolts 17th

oline is finaly healthy...:beer:
as for qbs being a wash....pretty close, until the game is on the line and you gotta make a play...then its rivers by a land slide

as for the broncos Db having the edge?...the bolts are the #1 passing defense...the broncos 19th....the bolts have given up a mere 8 passing TDS...the broncos 16...they have 8 picks to our 5...they keep the opposing qbs to a average of 74.5 passer rating...to our 97.9

i really cant see where we have the advantage

dont wanna be a debbie downer top but geesh ...drop the blatent homerism

the broncos will have to play a near perfect game to come out of the q with a w...can we?

Well, now we have had one of the chin-draggers talk about koolaid.

Thanks for playing . . . :coffee:

-----

[topscribe]

I think it hinges on getting a pass rush on Rivers and containing Gates.

I wish I could be more profound, but imo that's pretty much it.

Part of it.

You forgot abut their having to get a pass rush on Orton and containing Lloyd . . .

-----

[Poet]

Part of it.

You forgot abut their having to get a pass rush on Orton and containing Lloyd . . .

-----

Top, I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is the time of the year when the Chargers go on a tear and rally to save their season. Yes, clearly it would help if they got a consistent pass rush on Orton and stopped Lloyd, but Rivers is making bad players with little talent look amazing.

The Chargers can win a game where they don't get much of a pass rush on Orton and Lloyd goes nuts. You can't beat the Chargers if you don't get a pass rush on Rivers and contain Gates.

[slim]

Is Gates even going to play?

[topscribe]

Top, I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is the time of the year when the Chargers go on a tear and rally to save their season. Yes, clearly it would help if they got a consistent pass rush on Orton and stopped Lloyd, but Rivers is making bad players with little talent look amazing.

The Chargers can win a game where they don't get much of a pass rush on Orton and Lloyd goes nuts. You can't beat the Chargers if you don't get a pass rush on Rivers and contain Gates.

I did not say the Broncos don't have to get a pass rush on Rivers. I just said
that, in addition, the Chargers have some things to worry about, too.

Rivers has done well without his Vincent Jackson. Fine, so he has. Orton has
done well without pass protection and a running game.

What I am referring to is how so many are talking about what the hapless
Broncos have to do to have a chance with the big, bad Chargers. Well, the
Broncos feel they have a few players of their own, too. It's a two-way
street, which so many seem to have forgotten . . .

-----

[Poet]

Top, you're really earning that award.

[topscribe]

Top, you're really earning that award.

The Broncos don't have a chance in hell. They are going to lie down and let
the Chargers run allllllll over them.

Is that better? :coffee:


I don't know how mentioning they are going to show up is being a homer.
Please, all you chin-draggers, if you insist on it, be my guest. But don't call
me out for a little bit of realism about competition . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

Well, now we have had one of the chin-draggers talk about koolaid.

Thanks for playing . . . :coffee:

-----

chin dragger...my top..how personal....maybe a message board isnt the place for you seeing how you cant handle others opinions

specially if you cant respond to the post

look at the facts bucko..im not saying we cant win...im saying your opinions of the matchups are koolaid driven

oir line surendered one less sack than did thiers....their pass rush is twice as good as ours...do the math :coffee:

[topscribe]

chin dragger...my top..how personal....maybe a message board isnt the place for you seeing how you cant handle others opinions

Oh, I see. You can handle your kookaid remark, but can't take the chin-dragger,
right? You served me a dish, I served one back. The difference is, I did not
invite you to stop posting. If you cannot take it, don't turn around and
proclaim that I can't.

Try to control your hypocrisy, Rap . . .

-----

[Poet]

The Broncos don't have a chance in hell. They are going to lie down and let
the Chargers run allllllll over them.

Is that better? :coffee:


I don't know how mentioning they are going to show up is being a homer.
Please, all you chin-draggers, if you insist on it, be my guest. But don't call
me out for a little bit of realism about competition . . .

-----

You really really want to avoid this. The difference between me and the others is that I know which one of us really took the first shot.

Both teams have a QB who is playing at a disadvantage. But the Chargers QB is producing better than Orton, who I defended two years now. Rivers offensive line blows too. His running game blows as well.

He has Gates, Orton has Lloyd.

Is Gates? Yeah. There's no doubt about that, but it's not like Orton is throwing to rejects. In fact, after the Gates Rivers has worse players to throw to.

But that doesn't matter.

The Chargers are the better team, with the better QB, with the better offensive. They definitely have the better defense. The onus is on the BRONCO's. They're going to have to find a pass rush and find a way to stop Gates, who is probably going to play.

And as far as chin dragging goes, there aren't any bruises on my face, but thanks for the concern. :lol:

[topscribe]

You really really want to avoid this. The difference between me and the others is that I know which one of us really took the first shot.

Both teams have a QB who is playing at a disadvantage. But the Chargers QB is producing better than Orton, who I defended two years now. Rivers offensive line blows too. His running game blows as well.

He has Gates, Orton has Lloyd.

Is Gates? Yeah. There's no doubt about that, but it's not like Orton is throwing to rejects. In fact, after the Gates Rivers has worse players to throw to.

But that doesn't matter.

The Chargers are the better team, with the better QB, with the better offensive. They definitely have the better defense. The onus is on the BRONCO's. They're going to have to find a pass rush and find a way to stop Gates, who is probably going to play.

And as far as chin dragging goes, there aren't any bruises on my face, but thanks for the concern. :lol:

No, I don't really really want to avoid this. I just said the Broncos have
weapons, just as the Chargers have. If you disagree with that, then you
need to take a course in Football 101.

That is all I said. What is there to take issue with? Shit. :tsk:

-----

[BroncoStud]

If Orton has to outduel Rivers to win this game then we are screwed because it is not going to happen. Rivers is an absolute stud at QB, it doesn't matter who he is throwing the ball to. He can make plays happen with his arm. He is the machine that makes that team run, Orton is just part of a machine that makes this machine run.

What Rivers is accomplishing without a #1 WR and a consistent running game is amazing this season. Even if you can't stand the guy you have to give him his due, he's a great passing QB.

[topscribe]

To those who have accused me of drinking koolaid for what I have said in this
thread, they apparently have forgotten - or completely missed in the first
place - my prediction before the first regular season game was played this year.

I said the Broncos would struggle before the bye and lose a lot of games
because of injuries that had already occurred, inexperience at key positions,
and the need to gel. I added that the Broncos would reverse that record in
the second half because of improved health, gained experience, and gelling.

The Chiefs game was the first of this second half. The upcoming games, of
course, will bear out whether I was right, but it has at least transpired
exactly as I said, up to this point.

I mention this not to brag, but in response to those who have called me
out for drinking koolaid and homerism. I expect the Broncos in this second
half to look nothing like the Broncos in the first half. I may be wrong, but
that is what I expect.

-----

[arapaho2]

Oh, I see. You can handle your kookaid remark, but can't take the chin-dragger,
right? You served me a dish, I served one back. The difference is, I did not
invite you to stop posting. If you cannot take it, don't turn around and
proclaim that I can't.

Try to control your hypocrisy, Rap . . .

-----


koolaid referrs to a overeager fan...hardly a huge degradeing term is it

but whats a chin dragger...anything like a knuckle dragger

i served you a dish...full of facts...with my opinions concerning your views

you chose to get personal..not i

you coulda just responded with your own opinions and rebuttle...showing my stats were wrong and the chargers oline is so much worse than our..and despite haveing twice the pass rush as the broncos the bolt oline is in trouble

but didnt...you chose to go personal..not i

if you cant handle..just say so

[TXBRONC]

You really really want to avoid this. The difference between me and the others is that I know which one of us really took the first shot.

Both teams have a QB who is playing at a disadvantage. But the Chargers QB is producing better than Orton, who I defended two years now. Rivers offensive line blows too. His running game blows as well.

He has Gates, Orton has Lloyd.

Is Gates? Yeah. There's no doubt about that, but it's not like Orton is throwing to rejects. In fact, after the Gates Rivers has worse players to throw to.

But that doesn't matter.

The Chargers are the better team, with the better QB, with the better offensive. They definitely have the better defense. The onus is on the BRONCO's. They're going to have to find a pass rush and find a way to stop Gates, who is probably going to play.

And as far as chin dragging goes, there aren't any bruises on my face, but thanks for the concern. :lol:

The last I heard it was looking very doubtful that Gates would play and even if does he might not be very effect.

That aside, it's road game, against team is 6-2 over the last four seasons, and quarterback as mentioned earlier who is playing lights freakin out.

[topscribe]

koolaid referrs to a overeager fan...hardly a huge degradeing term is it

but whats a chin dragger...anything like a knuckle dragger

i served you a dish...full of facts...with my opinions concerning your views

you chose to get personal..not i

you coulda just responded with your own opinions and rebuttle...showing my stats were wrong and the chargers oline is so much worse than our..and despite haveing twice the pass rush as the broncos the bolt oline is in trouble

but didnt...you chose to go personal..not i

if you cant handle..just say so

Oh, so saying my koolaid is brimming over is not personal.

Guess you go by your own standards. Glad they're not mine . . . :coffee:

-----

[rcsodak]

chin dragger...my top..how personal....maybe a message board isnt the place for you seeing how you cant handle others opinions

specially if you cant respond to the post

look at the facts bucko..im not saying we cant win...im saying your opinions of the matchups are koolaid driven

oir line surendered one less sack than did thiers....their pass rush is twice as good as ours...do the math :coffee:

:laugh:

You should be the LAST person to be whining about getting personal.....

[rcsodak]

The last I heard it was looking very doubtful that Gates would play and even if does he might not be very effect.

That aside, it's road game, against team is 6-2 over the last four seasons, and quarterback as mentioned earlier who is playing lights freakin out.

.....and KC was on a high, having shellacked denver last time there were in town....with everything going for them....and left with their heads between their legs.

Just goes to show history has no bearing on the present, necessarily.

[Nomad]

I don't know about Orton outdueling Rivers, but i wouldn't mind seeing big daddy Williams pull a 'Seymour' on Rivers!!:D

Orton is going to kick Rivers ass tonight!!

[MasterShake]

I just want to see a good effort, win or lose...

BUT THEY BETTER WIN!!!:lol:

Really looking forward to this game. Go Broncos!:salute:

[arapaho2]

Oh, so saying my koolaid is brimming over is not personal.

Guess you go by your own standards. Glad they're not mine . . . :coffee:

-----


my standards reflect facts...not personal views that are demanded to be truth

as it is top...this is what i said

"pass the koolaid top :lol: your hogging it"

now was that so bad....see the smilie sugesting humour?...no?...notice the suggesting kidding?...no

that was followed by my views on your breakdown...

again if you cant handle a rebuttle...dont post...its that simple

so if saying "pass the koolaid is to harsh... if thats getting too personal with you old man...time to retire to the rockin chair my fren

[Day1BroncoFan]

Koolaid has to much sugar in it. I do like me some gateraid so lets put TeBow in please.


:D

j/k


not srs


Please do not :flame: me.

[frauschieze]

It's getting a little too personal here. Let's keep it on football and not on posters.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Broncos win. The 2 spot.

Denver offensive line impresses.

Special Teams/Defensive TD for Denver.

And Top is right. It almost feels like the Chargers are 9-0 and the Broncos are 0-9. Why aren't we looking at both teams? Tell you this, Broncos are thirsty.

GO BRONCOS!

[topscribe]

my standards reflect facts...not personal views that are demanded to be truth

as it is top...this is what i said

"pass the koolaid top :lol: your hogging it"

now was that so bad....see the smilie sugesting humour?...no?...notice the suggesting kidding?...no

that was followed by my views on your breakdown...

again if you cant handle a rebuttle...dont post...its that simple

so if saying "pass the koolaid is to harsh... if thats getting too personal with you old man...time to retire to the rockin chair my fren

"old man...time to retire to the rockin chair"

Your problem is that you get personal, and you don't seem to realize what
you are doing.

My point was that the Broncos have some weapons, too. That was opinion?
That was something that should be rebutted? Wow. :tsk:

-----

[Lancane]

One fact that every single poster has to deal with right now and admit is true, is that neither team is at it's best, not just in regards to health, but in almost all facets.

So, does the game come down to dueling quarterbacks? No, it starts with coaching...something both teams are having issues with. Orton deserves credit for the season he's having, but he in no way is in the same league as Rivers who is playing at an almost Elway-esque level; and that's high praise, think about it...he's carrying the team offensively, playing with athletes that were not even slated to start and he's still finding a way to try and lead them to win. We saw Elway do that for many years, surrounded by a lot of subpar talent.

Defensively, San Diego without a doubt has the edge, the only bright spot would be Bailey, but he's almost non-existent this season.

So, in truth...we have a chance to win, it will not be easy...but this game depends more on McDaniels and his staff, and how they gameplan then on Orton who has in all fairness been trying to carry this team while McDaniels has enjoyed his long absence from reality!

[arapaho2]

"old man...time to retire to the rockin chair"

Your problem is that you get personal, and you don't seem to realize what
you are doing.

My point was that the Broncos have some weapons, too. That was opinion?
That was something that should be rebutted? Wow. :tsk:

-----

poor ol top:listen:

i fail to see where the joke " your hogging all the koolaid is so dam hurtful "

to bad ...

[arapaho2]

One fact that every single poster has to deal with right now and admit is true, is that neither team is at it's best, not just in regards to health, but in almost all facets.

So, does the game come down to dueling quarterbacks? No, it starts with coaching...something both teams are having issues with. Orton deserves credit for the season he's having, but he in no way is in the same league as Rivers who is playing at an almost Elway-esque level; and that's high praise, think about it...he's carrying the team offensively, playing with athletes that were not even slated to start and he's still finding a way to try and lead them to win. We saw Elway do that for many years, surrounded by a lot of subpar talent.

Defensively, San Diego without a doubt has the edge, the only bright spot would be Bailey, but he's almost non-existent this season.

So, in truth...we have a chance to win, it will not be easy...but this game depends more on McDaniels and his staff, and how they gameplan then on Orton who has in all fairness been trying to carry this team while McDaniels has enjoyed his long absence from reality!

this is it

the bolts can have a bad game...and still beat the shit out of us

in order for us to win we have to play nearly flawless

lets hope last week wasnt a fluke

[Day1BroncoFan]

lets hope last week wasnt a fluke

If last week was then I hope this week is too.

:elefant:

[topscribe]

poor ol top:listen:

i fail to see where the joke " your hogging all the koolaid is so dam hurtful "

to bad ...

Right. You fail to see. You hit the nail on the head on that one.

And then there are the clueless who salute such posts . . .

-----

[BroncoStud]

Well, so much for Orton out-dueling Rivers.

Watch Rivers, then watch Orton. Night and day difference in ability and composure. Rivers is a real QB.

[Jake Klug]

Well, so much for Orton out-dueling Rivers.

Watch Rivers, then watch Orton. Night and day difference in ability and composure. Rivers is a real QB.

Yeah, but amazingly, people were all bent out of shape at the suggestion that Orton would have to match Rivers for Denver to make it a game.

There is a lot of egg on faces in this thread.

[BroncoStud]

Yeah, but amazingly, people were all bent out of shape at the suggestion that Orton would have to match Rivers for Denver to make it a game.

There is a lot of egg on faces in this thread.

Yeah, it's not even close. Orton isn't in the same hemisphere talent-wise as Rivers and it's obvious. Rivers is the difference in the Chargers winning 4 games or winning the division. Orton is just an average QB in a very good passing system. Rivers is the real-deal, a big-time QB.

[Jake Klug]

top, i don't want to rain on your parade, but this is the time of the year when the chargers go on a tear and rally to save their season. Yes, clearly it would help if they got a consistent pass rush on orton and stopped lloyd, but rivers is making bad players with little talent look amazing.

The chargers can win a game where they don't get much of a pass rush on orton and lloyd goes nuts. You can't beat the chargers if you don't get a pass rush on rivers and contain gates.


i did not say the broncos don't have to get a pass rush on rivers. I just said
that, in addition, the chargers have some things to worry about, too.

Rivers has done well without his vincent jackson. Fine, so he has. Orton has
done well without pass protection and a running game.

What i am referring to is how so many are talking about what the hapless
broncos have to do to have a chance with the big, bad chargers. Well, the
broncos feel they have a few players of their own, too. It's a two-way
street, which so many seem to have forgotten . . .

-----

lol

[BroncoStud]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

1 for 11.......... that ends that argument

[frauschieze]

A reminder:

DO NOT make disagreements personal.

[Jake Klug]

A reminder:

DO NOT make disagreements personal.

There was no disagreement. But there was an exchange that was settled with a clear-cut winner.

[frauschieze]

There was no disagreement. But there was an exchange that was settled with a clear-cut winner.

I couldn't care less. The personal comments directed to other posters, no matter what has been said previously, are done.

Any further discussion on this matter can be directed to Tned.

Any further posts in this thread that are not about the thread topic will be removed along with a nice Concerning Your Post PM.

Capisce?

[BoltWalt]

It kind of seems like the Chargers are more likely candidates to move to LA. How do you feel about that?
Sick, but the Bolts priced themselves out of my price range over 25 years ago. Here or there I'll still watch them on TV. If they go away I would prefer it was to LA than anywhere else and I hope they do not choose a city name just call them the Chargers. I do hope the city can find the means to build a new stadium and if they do they should make the field with the new synthetic stuff that is in the newest stadiums that turf at the Q was pathetic Monday night .

[topscribe]

I couldn't care less. The personal comments directed to other posters, no matter what has been said previously, are done.

Any further discussion on this matter can be directed to Tned.

Any further posts in this thread that are not about the thread topic will be removed along with a nice Concerning Your Post PM.

Capisce?

Yes'm . . . :redface:

-----