Where's MOSS--> the Southside of the Tree -->

[WhatEver!!!]

I have not heard much about our "Protential All-Star" DE, Moss. I could not see the games on the TV but I do see his stats; 1 tackle, 1 assist --> Does he get any real playing time?? Does anyone see him being a contributing factor this year or even the year after??
:welcome:

[WARHORSE]

Check out the second page of the 'Game Observations' thread.

[lex]

I have not heard much about our "Protential All-Star" DE, Moss. I could not see the games on the TV but I do see his stats; 1 tackle, 1 assist --> Does he get any real playing time?? Does anyone see him being a contributing factor this year or even the year after??
:welcome:

He has been playing safety. Theres a little bit of a learning curve. What do you want?

[WhatEver!!!]

He has been playing safety. Theres a little bit of a learning curve.

This is what I needed to hear not the sophomoric answer of "What do you want?" I know there is a learning curve, duh...

OTHER
Denver Post states he is only in the Nickle Packages "In coverage" Read the Mailbag that was just posted.

[Thnikkaman]

This is what I needed to hear not the sophomoric answer of "What do you want?" I know there is a learning curve, duh...

OTHER
Denver Post states he is only in the Nickle Packages "In coverage" Read the Mailbag that was just posted.

That is what you get when you start a thread asking for information that has been posted in another thread.

[Nature Boy]

Jarvis Moss is a bust. If he wasn't a 1st round draft pick last year, he'd already been cut.

[LoyalSoldier]

Jarvis Moss is a bust. If he wasn't a 1st round draft pick last year, he'd already been cut.

He is also a D-linemen which the average "pan out" time is 3 years.

It is stupid to call anyone a bust after their first year.

[BeefStew25]

This is a big year for him.

I can't judge defensive players during preseason games who are a shoo-in to make the team.

Lets give him more than a season.

[honz]

He is also a D-linemen which the average "pan out" time is 3 years.

It is stupid to call anyone a bust after their first year.
Especially when said DLineman missed virtually all of last year with an injury.

Am I the only one that feels like slapping Nature Boy sometimes?

[BeefStew25]

Am I the only one that feels like slapping Nature Boy sometimes?

Yeah, he is fine with that. He is good for ratings.

[BroncoFanatic]

It's too early to call him a bust, that's just short sighted. He needs time to develop, and certainly needs to show improvement as this season goes on. His progress was hampered by injury last season too.

[Retired_Member_001]

Jarvis Moss will be a star in this league.

Mark this post.

[Lonestar]

Jarvis Moss will be a star in this league.

Mark this post.

shooting or falling?

[Retired_Member_001]

shooting or falling?

:laugh:

I find it funny that people doubt Moss. If he never broke his leg, and if he ahd the opportunity to play more last season, everyone would love him. The problem is that we have been made to wait to see what he can do, and it's made everyone question his potential. He was VERY good in the few snaps he got last season, he should be even better this season. Plus, he will be in a rotation with several other DE's which will make things easier.

[Lonestar]

:laugh:

I find it funny that people doubt Moss. If he never broke his leg, and if he ahd the opportunity to play more last season, everyone would love him. The problem is that we have been made to wait to see what he can do, and it's made everyone question his potential. He was VERY good in the few snaps he got last season, he should be even better this season. Plus, he will be in a rotation with several other DE's which will make things easier.

My real concern is his weight if he is unable to put on muscle mass he will never be anything more than a 3rd and long pass rush specialist and frankly that is not what First round draft choices are supposed to be..

He needs to be able to keep the weight at 260 plus to make it through the season and play more than a handful of plays a game..

[Retired_Member_001]

My real concern is his weight if he is unable to put on muscle mass he will never be anything more than a 3rd and long pass rush specialist and frankly that is not what First round draft choices are supposed to be..

He needs to be able to keep the weight at 260 plus to make it through the season and play more than a handful of plays a game..

Shanahan and Bates got him up to 275lbs at the start of last season.

[Lonestar]

Shanahan and Bates got him up to 275lbs at the start of last season.

but he is at 245 now.. and I doubt seriously he got that high, it was more like here hold this while I weigh you..

[Rick]

Guess it depends on what site you read from. Broncos official site has him at 265. http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=7252

[underrated29]

I DONT KNOW, I think he is able to put on weight.

I have always had the hardest time gaining weight. Even when i was playing college hockey i still was only at 155lbs. I was strong but i could not put on weight, just strength.

So last year after being tired of getting worked over in hockey. I would eat cookies and milk, and milkshakes and anything else i could find right before bed. i did it for 1 year. i put on 40lbs. I was up to about 185 about 4 months ago. Now i am down to about 165lbs, but i am still working out and i am converting that fat to muscle weight. My target weight is about 175-180 of muscle and hopefully i will be ther before christmas.

Now as for someone who is as skinny as him, has trainers and unlimmited workout facilities as well as aceess to all kinds of suppliments and food (which i barey have enough money for). Can probably put that weight on in about half the time.

He wants about 30-40lbs and i as well. He is at 265 now- 20lbs should take him like 3 months tops. i would think.

[Retired_Member_001]

Guess it depends on what site you read from. Broncos official site has him at 265. http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=7252

And that would be an updated weight.

I remember last year when no one knew Lepsis' weight, his weight was listed as ? .

[BroncoJoe]

Jarvis Moss is a bust. If he wasn't a 1st round draft pick last year, he'd already been cut.

:tsk:

[Retired_Member_001]

Jarvis Moss is a bust. If he wasn't a 1st round draft pick last year, he'd already been cut.

Don't worry, it wasn't him that took Travis Henry's roster spot.

[Lonestar]

but he is at 245 now.. and I doubt seriously he got that high, it was more like here hold this while I weigh you..


Guess it depends on what site you read from. Broncos official site has him at 265. http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=7252


And like all of the college teams that list in the programs their players 2-3 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than they really are ..

Ask any of the guys that have seen him standing next to another player..

How many times have I read toothpick legs when describing him...

Sorry but I do not trust the website all that much..

I'd bet he is closer to 245 than 265..

[Retired_Member_001]

And like all of the college teams that list in the programs their players 2-3 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than they really are ..

Ask any of the guys that have seen him standing next to another player..

How many times have I read toothpick legs when describing him...

Sorry but I do not trust the website all that much..

I'd bet he is closer to 245 than 265..

There's no way of knowing, but I'd bet he's probably at 255lbs. That's the weight they originally thought he would come into the NFL at.

Anyway, guys like Jason Taylor have toothpick legs and look more like Olympic Sprinters than DE's.

[Lonestar]

There's no way of knowing, but I'd bet he's probably at 255lbs. That's the weight they originally thought he would come into the NFL at.

Anyway, guys like Jason Taylor have toothpick legs and look more like Olympic Sprinters than DE's.

time will tell. I'm concerned that he will not be effective playing under 270 or so..

[BroncoJoe]

JR hates any Broncos draft pick.

Perhaps the Broncos should hire him as a talent evaluator?

[Retired_Member_001]

JR hates any draft pick.

Perhaps the Broncos should hire him as a talent evaluator?

No, because he would just reject everyone. :laugh:

Sorry Jr, :beer:.

[Rick]

Doom does just fine playing under 270, but that kids just a freak.

Be nice if moss ends up being closer to 275 but if he is just around the 260 mark and can get 10+ sacks I will forgive him...so long as it doesnt effect the run D too much.

[Retired_Member_001]

Doom does just fine playing under 270, but that kids just a freak.

Be nice if moss ends up being closer to 275 but if he is just around the 260 mark and can get 10+ sacks I will forgive him...so long as it doesnt effect the run D too much.

Look, Moss is very tall and lean. You don't necessarily have to be short and 300lbs to be an effective LB. If tal and lean gets the job done, then I'm happy.

[Rick]

I am not trashing Moss lol. Simply stating that Doom does fine without being 270 and if Moss puts up similar numbers without being 270+ i am fine with that too, so long as the run D doesnt such :)

Never have trashed the guy lol.

[Retired_Member_001]

I am not trashing Moss lol. Simply stating that Doom does fine without being 270 and if Moss puts up similar numbers without being 270+ i am fine with that too, so long as the run D doesnt such :)

Never have trashed the guy lol.

Yeah I know.

I was adding on to your point, not slamming your point.

:beer:

[dogfish]

robert mathis is 245, and he's had 38.5 sacks over the past four years. . . i'm not saying that weight isn't important, but it doesn't replace talent, technique, heart or desire. . . .

[Requiem / The Dagda]

robert mathis is 245, and he's had 38.5 sacks over the past four years. . . i'm not saying that weight isn't important, but it doesn't replace talent, technique, heart or desire. . . .

Keep in mind who Mathis has had beside him and how conducive scheme fit helps yield positive results.

[OMorange&blue]

what??

[dogfish]

Keep in mind who Mathis has had beside him and how conducive scheme fit helps yield positive results.


you're right about the scheme-- i've said for a while now that we need to pick a defensive scheme and stick to it long enough to accumulate the proper personnel. . . but the pass rusher playing opposite jarvis is no slouch himself-- he had more sacks last year than freeney has in the past two. . .

[honz]

I don't care how much he weighs as long as he can beat up on QBs consistently.

[LoyalSoldier]

I find it funny we are haggling about the weight when our best pass rusher is a midget for a D-Linemen. Size isn't everything. It is all about skill and heart. Heck someone on our own team proves that.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I don't care how much he weighs as long as he can beat up on QBs consistently.

Well, so far in camp that's been the problem. He's been unimpressive from what I've seen.

This past week, he was on the field when Dallas was playing their third team offense and didn't record a sack, pressure or tackle.

Not too impressive under those circumstances.

[omac]

I don't question his effectivity yet ... we'll see soon enough. What I question is if he can stay healthy. His slim and long frame might lead itself to more injuries.

[dogfish]

Well, so far in camp that's been the problem. He's been unimpressive from what I've seen.

This past week, he was on the field when Dallas was playing their third team offense and didn't record a sack, pressure or tackle.

Not too impressive under those circumstances.


during the game, he did beat flozell adams-- their starting left tackle and a highly respected lineman-- to force brad johnson to throw the ball away. . . and that was on a three-man rush, too. . . i realize that's not exactly enough to get into the HOF, but you can see that he does have plenty of natural ability-- he just needs to stay healthy enough to get reps, and learn how to translate that ability into production. . . after all, this is a guy with six NFL games under his belt, and one start (which came at DT as a gimmick against the colts, and he didn't get a starter's full complement of snaps). . . he didn't get that many starts in college, either-- he's a classic example of a guy who would have REALLY benefitted from another year, but when you're injury-prone and you know you're probably going to get first-round money, i think it's awfully hard to blame him for securing his financial future. . .


if anything, crowder is the guy that should be showing us more-- he was a four-year starter in college, and far more polished than moss coming out. . .

[Lonestar]

JR hates any Broncos draft pick.

Perhaps the Broncos should hire him as a talent evaluator?

after 2000 and prior to 2006 how many of mikeys picks did you like?

I suspect I would not go after high risk injured players like mikey has done for years.. Might even listen to the scouting department..

[G_Money]

after 2000 and prior to 2006 how many of mikeys picks did you like?

I suspect I would not go after high risk injured players like mikey has done for years.. Might even listen to the scouting department..

Actually this could be a fun game.

What DID we think of the drafts at the time? Let me see if I can conjure up my in-the-moment feelings during the 2001-2005 drafts:

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota - "Seriously? Middlebrooks? Couldn't we have gotten him later? Stupid combine..."
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall - "Hmmm. I need to watch more college football, cuz I don't know jack about this guy other than what Mel K is telling me. All upside, huh?"
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State - "Another DE? Really? Isn't Trevor Pryce kinda doing double duty there already?"
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota - "A good blocker, but is he really gonna be able to replace Nalen?"
4 120 Nick Harris P California - "Who?"
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa - "Who?"

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii - "From HAWAII? In the FIRST? GAH. This guy better be able to catch the ball..."
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) - "FINALLY, a back who can take over for TD. Cuz we all know Mike Anderson isn't really anybody."
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State - "Oooh, he's really strong. I like Dorsett. Should be that guy we need in the middle."
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas - "Didn't we just draft Middlebrooks?"
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State - "Another kickoff guy?"
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State "What the hell is Boise State? The Smurf Turf? This guy's not even gonna make it out of camp."
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech - "Camp fodder."
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia - "Ditto."

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia - "Well, we need a LT. Salaam wasn't it. Is he too big to run our scheme?"
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State - "Awesome. I love hard-hitting linebackers."
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma - "But we have CP. What's the point of Griffin?"
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson "Hey, he's even stronger than Dorsett Davis. He'll be a shoe-in to make the team."
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson - "Okay, enough with the DL."
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi - "I don't get it."
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian - "Huh?"
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech - "Wha?"
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida - "But..."
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama - *cross fingers for draft that looks bad to a non-college ball watcher and start drinking*

2004 - Denver Broncos - Also known as the year I started following more college ball so I wasn't as caught off-guard by our terrible drafts.
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.) - "DAMMIT!! STEPHEN JACKSON FELL TO US!! I HATE YOU SHANNY!!!"
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State - "Well, he's no Stephen Jackson but at least we remembered we needed a RB..."
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall - "If he turns sideways does he turn invisible? Is it possible to be a scrawnier Ass-lee Lelie?"
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan - *start drinking*
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State - *begin the 2nd day of drafting with drink already in hand*
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama - *start making up drinking games as we flush the rest of our picks*
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska - "What rhymes with Sewell so I can take another drink?"
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State - *stagger*
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh - *fall*
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State - *belch*

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State - "Okay, I see why...but couldn't we have gotten him in the 3rd?
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State - "I watched him in the Apple Cup. Eh. How many DBs do we need anyway?"
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland - "HOW MANY DBs DO WE NEED ANYWAY?!?!?We have screwed up enough drafts that one position doesn't cut it, Shanny..."
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State - "!@*(#&$#^@*!@!~!! *start mainlining tequila and kicking puppies*
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.) *did not return to the draft. Still cussing and puppy kicking*
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona *more puppies were injured in the making of this draft class, though it was not Ernster's fault*

Good times. :coffee:

~G

[WARHORSE]

after 2000 and prior to 2006 how many of mikeys picks did you like?

I suspect I would not go after high risk injured players like mikey has done for years.. Might even listen to the scouting department..


Isnt it funny how you attribute the bad to Shanny and the good to others? Just a thought.

You mention past history, but not the two lombardis in the trophy case.

Youre just one of those people who love to look for things to gripe about.

Hard way to go if you ask me...........:coffee:

[Nature Boy]

Shanahan and Bates got him up to 275lbs at the start of last season.


I think the only time Jarvis Moss ever got to 275lbs is when he jumped on the scale with full pads, cleats and after being drenched by the field sprinklers.

Despite being only 245lbs at 6'6'', he doesn't even look fast or overly agile/athletic at all. I hear Ryan Clady treats Jarvis Moss like his whipping boy in practice. With what we know about Jarvis Moss, it's not a far fetch to go ahead and label Ole' Jarvis a certified Bust. You guys heard it hear 1st, a "Bust".

[Nature Boy]

Especially when said DLineman missed virtually all of last year with an injury.

Am I the only one that feels like slapping Nature Boy sometimes?


Come on Honz, don't be such a Homer. Jarvis is healthy right now and he belongs with the practice squad. you know it.

[Nature Boy]

There's no way of knowing, but I'd bet he's probably at 255lbs. That's the weight they originally thought he would come into the NFL at.

Anyway, guys like Jason Taylor have toothpick legs and look more like Olympic Sprinters than DE's.


Jason Taylor plays at a solid 260lbs throughout his career. I read about a month ago that Jarvis Moss was at a mere 245lbs.

Even if Jarvis Moss is able to get his weight up to the 265lb+ range. He may look like Jason Taylor physic wise but he is no Jason Taylor.

.

[Nature Boy]

Doom does just fine playing under 270, but that kids just a freak.

Be nice if moss ends up being closer to 275 but if he is just around the 260 mark and can get 10+ sacks I will forgive him...so long as it doesnt effect the run D too much.


I am not trashing Moss lol. Simply stating that Doom does fine without being 270 and if Moss puts up similar numbers without being 270+ i am fine with that too, so long as the run D doesnt such :)

Never have trashed the guy lol.


Elvis Dumerville is only 5'11''. Jarvis Moss is 6'6''. Can you imagine the difference in body build and strength between the 2 DEs?

Moss would have to be at around 285-290lbs+ to have the same body build as Dumerville.

[Nature Boy]

robert mathis is 245, and he's had 38.5 sacks over the past four years. . . i'm not saying that weight isn't important, but it doesn't replace talent, technique, heart or desire. . . .


Robert Mathis is 6'2'', Ole' Jarvis is 6'6'' and they both weigh the same. See the difference in how you can't compare the 2 guys' weight equivalence?

.

[Nature Boy]

Well, so far in camp that's been the problem. He's been unimpressive from what I've seen.

This past week, he was on the field when Dallas was playing their third team offense and didn't record a sack, pressure or tackle.

Not too impressive under those circumstances.


Hence why I think Jarvis Moss is and will be a bust. I may be jumping the gun a little bit, but it's obvious as to why.

.

[Nature Boy]

. . . after all, this is a guy with six NFL games under his belt, and one start (which came at DT as a gimmick against the colts, and he didn't get a starter's full complement of snaps). . . he didn't get that many starts in college, either-- he's a classic example of a guy who would have REALLY benefitted from another year, but when you're injury-prone ...

Hence why Jarvis Moss was such a horrible draft pick last with a #17 overall. Hence why the Broncos are one of the worst drafting teams in the last 5-6 if not more years.

.

[Retired_Member_001]

I think the only time Jarvis Moss ever got to 275lbs is when he jumped on the scale with full pads, cleats and after being drenched by the field sprinklers.

Despite being only 245lbs at 6'6'', he doesn't even look fast or overly agile/athletic at all. I hear Ryan Clady treats Jarvis Moss like his whipping boy in practice. With what we know about Jarvis Moss, it's not a far fetch to go ahead and label Ole' Jarvis a certified Bust. You guys heard it hear 1st, a "Bust".

Unless I officially hear that he weighs more than 245lbs, then I won't believe it.

[Retired_Member_001]

Robert Mathis is 6'2'', Ole' Jarvis is 6'6'' and they both weigh the same. See the difference in how you can't compare the 2 guys' weight equivalence?

.

For the last time, Shanahan WILL have Moss up to 265lbs or else Moss just won't play.

[WhatEver!!!]

I finally got a chance to see the Jarvis play last night; NFL Network. 6 Offensive linemen against 3 defensive linemen and Moss got in the face of the QB. Second string; who cares, that was impressive.

Seeing a small glimpse of Moss in that game I have hope for him but it is too soon to tell; seeing him only once this year, that is...

I see him being what most expect, he will come-in on passing downs.

[dogfish]

Robert Mathis is 6'2'', Ole' Jarvis is 6'6'' and they both weigh the same. See the difference in how you can't compare the 2 guys' weight equivalence?

.



no, i really don't. . . but if you insist on haggling over a few pounds, jason taylor (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasontaylor/profile?id=TAY338550) is listed at 6'6, 244-- just like he has been his whole career. . . and before you tell me "jarvis moss is no jason taylor," tell me how many all-pro seasons taylor had when he had six games under his belt-- how many sacks? can you find me a scouting report that said he was going to be one of the most feared pass rushers in football? no, you can't-- he started eleven games his rookie year, and only had five sacks. . . it's ridiculous to think that a guy who only has thirteen CAREER starts (in college) is a "bust" before he's even played in a dozen NFL games. . . . talk about jumping the gun. . . .

[Retired_Member_001]

no, i really don't. . . but if you insist on haggling over a few pounds, jason taylor (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasontaylor/profile?id=TAY338550) is listed at 6'6, 244-- just like he has been his whole career. . . and before you tell me "jarvis moss is no jason taylor," tell me how many all-pro seasons taylor had when he had six games under his belt-- how many sacks? can you find me a scouting report that said he was going to be one of the most feared pass rushers in football? no, you can't-- he started eleven games his rookie year, and only had five sacks. . . it's ridiculous to think that a guy who only has thirteen CAREER starts (in college) is a "bust" before he's even played in a dozen NFL games. . . . talk about jumping the gun. . . .

Great post.

:salute:

[underrated29]

Nature boy- you remind me of joe pesci. Especially in the movie "lethal weapon 4"

****EDIT**** Arguing because he was in the shadow of glover, and gibson. So he would say and do ridiculous things to get out of it.

Dont worry about stuff so much. State your opinion learn about others opinions and discuss.

[Lonestar]

no, i really don't. . . but if you insist on haggling over a few pounds, jason taylor (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasontaylor/profile?id=TAY338550) is listed at 6'6, 244-- just like he has been his whole career. . . and before you tell me "jarvis moss is no jason taylor," tell me how many all-pro seasons taylor had when he had six games under his belt-- how many sacks? can you find me a scouting report that said he was going to be one of the most feared pass rushers in football? no, you can't-- he started eleven games his rookie year, and only had five sacks. . . it's ridiculous to think that a guy who only has thirteen CAREER starts (in college) is a "bust" before he's even played in a dozen NFL games. . . . talk about jumping the gun. . . .


overall good post..

But keep in mind that Jason Taylor has had a real strong supporting cast around him most of his career..

Much stronger than what we currently have in the DL and LB area..

I'm not so sure that Moss will be Taylor, other in the minds of Bates and perhaps mikey..

Lets hope he can put some weight on and it is all muscle ..

[dogfish]

overall good post..

But keep in mind that Jason Taylor has had a real strong supporting cast around him most of his career..

Much stronger than what we currently have in the DL and LB area..

I'm not so sure that Moss will be Taylor, other in the minds of Bates and perhaps mikey..

Lets hope he can put some weight on and it is all muscle ..



well, in all honesty i don't expect moss to be taylor, either. . . after all, taylor is an all-pro, defensive player of the year-- a guy who could possibly get some hall of fame consideration. . . i suppose that could be the ultimate upside for moss, but he can become a very solid player for us without reaching taylor's level-- just as cutler can be good enough to lead the team to a super bowl without being as good as john was. . .

my point was that i don't necessarily think moss has to reach a certain weight to have an impact on the field. . . yes, bigger is usually better, but there are plenty of undersized guys around the league who are damn good players-- guys like antoine winfield and steve smith, warrick dunn, or the smurf bob sanders who just won the DMVP award last year. . . or, elvis dumervil, robert mathis or jason taylor. . .

[hamrob]

I think the verdict is definitely still out on Moss. He has plenty of upside and with that potential there is always going to be hope.

But, don't believe the hype. Anytime you spend a #17 pick....and trade up to get a guy in the first round....you're not projecting him to be a 3rd down DE only. You're projecting him to be a "Difference Maker". I think to say that the Broncos are mildly disapointed at this juncture is understating it. Regardless of what they tell the press.

Hopefully Moss and Crowder pan out for us...but hey, even if they don't and Harris and Thomas do pan out...you'd have to say it was very successful draft.

[Stargazer]

Hopefully Moss and Crowder pan out for us...but hey, even if they don't and Harris and Thomas do pan out...you'd have to say it was very successful draft.

I wanted Bowe 1st, then Nelson, and if neither of those two were available I wanted Beason. And the trading up for Moss really stunk. Oh well.

But, the Broncos have Moss and I hope for the best. It was unfortunate he sustained an injury because he was part of the rotation. The injury extended his development time.

[Nature Boy]

no, i really don't. . . but if you insist on haggling over a few pounds, jason taylor (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasontaylor/profile?id=TAY338550) is listed at 6'6, 244-- just like he has been his whole career. . . and before you tell me "jarvis moss is no jason taylor," tell me how many all-pro seasons taylor had when he had six games under his belt-- how many sacks? can you find me a scouting report that said he was going to be one of the most feared pass rushers in football? no, you can't-- he started eleven games his rookie year, and only had five sacks. . . it's ridiculous to think that a guy who only has thirteen CAREER starts (in college) is a "bust" before he's even played in a dozen NFL games. . . . talk about jumping the gun. . . .


Depends on what site you're looking at. The Redskins official site has Jason Taylor at 6'5'' and 244lbs. It's true, Jason Taylor has slimmed down the most he's ever since joining with the Skins. Throughout his career, he always played at around 260lbs.

The difference between Jason Taylor and Jarvis Moss is not the physical similarities but that Jason Taylor is fast while Jarvis Moss is not.

I've seen enough and heard enough of Jarvis Moss last season and this pre-season and the limited times he's played that he sucks and will suck. A "Bust" if you will, now or later.

.

[Nature Boy]

Unless I officially hear that he weighs more than 245lbs, then I won't believe it.


Here is the article on the Denver Post on Moss' inability to put on weight. Maybe he's just a wimp and is afraid of the weight room.

********************************************
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10048912

jim armstrong
Skinny on Moss is he remains slim
By Jim Armstrong
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 07/31/2008 12:01:39 AM MDT

Sometimes life isn't fair.

Take the case of Broncos defensive end Jarvis Moss. He'd love to have those 10 pounds teammate Montrae Holland is trying to lose.

Moss is at the other end of the spectrum from Holland: trying to gain weight, but can't. Moss was drafted at 245 pounds last year and, after an offseason of heavy eating and weight lifting, he weighs . . . 245 pounds.

"That's me," Moss said. "I'm naturally a slim dude, especially at this time of year when we're practicing two times a day."

Moss, whose target weight is 255, typically loses at least 5 pounds a practice. Yes, having that extra weight would help him fight off blockers in the running game, but he has resigned himself to being lean and mean.

"I really don't feel like it hurts me on the field," said Moss, who stands second on the depth chart at right defensive end. "Of course being a little bulkier and heavier could help me, but I just have to give great effort."

If you battle the bulge, you might want to skip the rest of this paragraph. All right, are we clear? Here goes: Moss eats three large meals a day, with snacks in between each, not to mention two protein shakes. But still, he can't add any weight.

"I've tried," he said. "Maybe it's the metabolism. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I just sweat more than others. I always want to try to put on weight, but this is me. I'm always going to be lean."

*************************************************

-I hear that even Tyler Polumbus looked like a pro-bowler in practice when he lined up opposite of Ole' jarvis Moss.

[Nature Boy]

For the last time, Shanahan WILL have Moss up to 265lbs or else Moss just won't play.

Then Jarvis Moss will never see the field again. He weighs only 245lbs. The Broncos might as well cut him right now as they don't have the roster space.

[turftoad]

A person can always add muscle bulk (weight). He just needs to work at it rather than make excuses for not being able to put weight on.

[underrated29]

I WOULD SAy he is pretty fast. Infact very fast for a big DE. He does need more weight thats for sure. And he does need some game reps. Face it, he has played in 6 games. 6, and 3 preseason games. He just needs to learn and adapt to the nfl speed. Give him a little time. I might wear the homer hat more often than not, but you sir are wearing the downer cap- give the man a chance. If he continues to blow at the end of the year- then your hat is not downer, but wise.

Until then......... GO MOSS!!!!

[Retired_Member_001]

Depends on what site you're looking at. The Redskins official site has Jason Taylor at 6'5'' and 244lbs. It's true, Jason Taylor has slimmed down the most he's ever since joining with the Skins. Throughout his career, he always played at around 260lbs.

The difference between Jason Taylor and Jarvis Moss is not the physical similarities but that Jason Taylor is fast while Jarvis Moss is not.

I've seen enough and heard enough of Jarvis Moss last season and this pre-season and the limited times he's played that he sucks and will suck. A "Bust" if you will, now or later.

.

You've seen enough of Jarvis Moss last season? BAH! He had limited plays and he did very well for a rookie DE in those plays. If you don't think Jarvis Moss is fast, then you haven't watched him. Forget 40 times, look at Moss' on field speed. It would beat most DE's in the league. Go back and watch College film and the film of the Buffalo game last season. He IS fast.

[Retired_Member_001]

Then Jarvis Moss will never see the field again. He weighs only 245lbs. The Broncos might as well cut him right now as they don't have the roster space.

Cut him? :laugh: Cut a guy that could be the next Jason Taylor? :laugh: Even if you DO believe he is a bust, who do we really have who can play better than him? Dumervil? Crowder? Who else?

[LoyalSoldier]

I missed where you can judge a career from 6 games of a rookie season......

[Nature Boy]

I WOULD SAy he is pretty fast. Infact very fast for a big DE. He does need more weight thats for sure. And he does need some game reps. Face it, he has played in 6 games. 6, and 3 preseason games. He just needs to learn and adapt to the nfl speed. Give him a little time. I might wear the homer hat more often than not, but you sir are wearing the downer cap- give the man a chance. If he continues to blow at the end of the year- then your hat is not downer, but wise.

Until then......... GO MOSS!!!!


I assure you, Jarvis Moss is neither fast or is he big at 245lbs playing DE. Heck, DJ Williams is 245lbs.

.

[topscribe]

Okay, one side says Moss is fast, the other side says he isn't.

Can we now agree to disagree an move along?

-----

[Nature Boy]

Cut him? :laugh: Cut a guy that could be the next Jason Taylor? :laugh: Even if you DO believe he is a bust, who do we really have who can play better than him? Dumervil? Crowder? Who else?

Engelburger, Ekuban and any guy we can find off the streets.

Jarvis Moss the next Jason Taylor? sure... LOL!

[Nature Boy]

I missed where you can judge a career from 6 games of a rookie season......


There's a reason why we've so less of him last season, because he sucks. Then he goes and breaks a leg in practice. From the limited time, the camps and practices and what have you. It's safe to say that Jarvis Moss sucks. Complete waste of a 1st round pick. Quite possibly be one of Shanny's worst 1st round selections the last few years and that isn't saying a lot.

Why don't we just ask Ryan Clady and Tyler Polumbus, an undrafted Rookie free agent what he thinks about Jarvis Moss. The 2 OTs have owned Jarvis Moss in this last month in training camp.

[LoyalSoldier]

There's a reason why we've so less of him last season, because he sucks. Then he goes and breaks a leg in practice. From the limited time, the camps and practices and what have you. It's safe to say that Jarvis Moss sucks. Complete waste of a 1st round pick. Quite possibly be one of Shanny's worst 1st round selections the last few years and that isn't saying a lot.

Why don't we just ask Ryan Clady and Tyler Polumbus, an undrafted Rookie free agent what he thinks about Jarvis Moss. The 2 OTs have owned Jarvis Moss in this last month in training camp.

Again you are making the same stupid mistake that many in the past have made. Counting someone out without even giving them time to do anything.

So is Torian a bust now? Serious I get tired of the drama people make over draft picks who haven't even played for that long.

[topscribe]

There's a reason why we've so less of him last season, because he sucks. Then he goes and breaks a leg in practice. From the limited time, the camps and practices and what have you. It's safe to say that Jarvis Moss sucks. Complete waste of a 1st round pick. Quite possibly be one of Shanny's worst 1st round selections the last few years and that isn't saying a lot.

Why don't we just ask Ryan Clady and Tyler Polumbus, an undrafted Rookie free agent what he thinks about Jarvis Moss. The 2 OTs have owned Jarvis Moss in this last month in training camp.

We saw little of Jarvis Moss last season because he was injured. That's why.
He is in what is effectively his rookie season this year. I think some of us are
saying it is too early to judge just how good he will be, or not be.

I think they are right. :coffee:

-----

[dogfish]

Okay, one side says Moss is fast, the other side says he isn't.

Can we now agree to disagree an move along?

-----


sure. . . AFTER i point out urban meyer's statement that jarvis moss was the fastest player on that team over the first ten yards (a team that was renowned for its "SEC speed"). . . so yea. . . i'll take the word of his highly respected college coach, who watched him in practice, during games and on film every day, over that of a wannabe internet know-it-all who's seen him for all of a couple dozen snaps on TV. . . let me also point out that his combine numbers in the 10-, 20-, and 40-yard dash stacked up quite well with any of the ends drafted that year. . .

jarvis moss is fast-- now that we've established that, we can move along. . . .



:D

[Nature Boy]

Again you are making the same stupid mistake that many in the past have made. Counting someone out without even giving them time to do anything.

So is Torian a bust now? Serious I get tired of the drama people make over draft picks who haven't even played for that long.

The difference is Torrain actually looks good in practice. Moss doesn't. Not in practice or the limited times we've seen him.
.

[Nature Boy]

We saw little of Jarvis Moss last season because he was injured. That's why.
He is in what is effectively his rookie season this year. I think some of us are
saying it is too early to judge just how good he will be, or not be.

I think they are right. :coffee:

-----


I was talking about the little that we saw of him before his injury during practice and I stated that.

From the times in Camp where Ryan Clady and Tyler Polumbus totally owns him and from the 2 pre-season games so far. I've seen enough of Moss to know that he is not an NFL player.

I am pretty sure Mike Shanahan and Pat Bowlen are kicking themselves for that draft pick. A guy who the Broncos traded up to the #17 last draft to get.

.

[Nature Boy]

sure. . . AFTER i point out urban meyer's statement that jarvis moss was the fastest player on that team over the first ten yards (a team that was renowned for its "SEC speed"). . . so yea. . . i'll take the word of his highly respected college coach, who watched him in practice, during games and on film every day, over that of a wannabe internet know-it-all who's seen him for all of a couple dozen snaps on TV. . . let me also point out that his combine numbers in the 10-, 20-, and 40-yard dash stacked up quite well with any of the ends drafted that year. . .

jarvis moss is fast-- now that we've established that, we can move along. . . .



:D


Jarvis Moss is fast? His height and weight says he should be fast but actual games speed and practice drills says otherwise.

Do we have to phone Ryan Clady and Tyler Polumbus to ask them for their opinion?

.

[Nature Boy]

sure. . . AFTER i point out urban meyer's statement that jarvis moss was the fastest player on that team over the first ten yards (a team that was renowned for its "SEC speed"). . . so yea. . . i'll take the word of his highly respected college coach, who watched him in practice, during games and on film every day, over that of a wannabe internet know-it-all who's seen him for all of a couple dozen snaps on TV. . . let me also point out that his combine numbers in the 10-, 20-, and 40-yard dash stacked up quite well with any of the ends drafted that year. . .

jarvis moss is fast-- now that we've established that, we can move along. . . .



:D


You're also using the same references that cause the Broncos to make such a horrible draft selection in 2007 with the #17.

We should have moved all the way up to the 10th spot to draft Patrick Willis. Our defense would be leaps and bounds better right now with Willis quarterbacking our defense. hind site of course, but that is what forums are for, for discussions.

.

[topscribe]

Jarvis Moss is fast? His height and weight says he should be fast but actual games speed and practice drills says otherwise.

Do we have to phone Ryan Clady and Tyler Polumbus to ask them for their opinion?

.

If you have a direct line to Clady and Plumbus, be our guest. I'm sure a lot of
us would love to hear what they would have to say.

Nonetheless, what several here are talking about is Moss' game speed. You
are not going to make Moss slow by proclaiming him slow, so I would give it
up, if I were you.

-----

[Nature Boy]

If you have a direct line to Clady and Plumbus, be our guest. I'm sure a lot of
us would love to hear what they would have to say.

Nonetheless, what several here are talking about is Moss' game speed. You
are not going to make Moss slow by proclaiming him slow, so I would give it
up, if I were you.

-----

Yea, Let me call Clady and Polumbus. My buddy has their #s...


I'll remind you how slow Jarvis Moss after he is cut, if not this season, the next. The guy has "Bust" written all over him.

I'm cooling it off by staying off the boards for a while til around the next game.

Be back if allowed.

.

[topscribe]

Yea, Let me call Clady and Polumbus. My buddy has their #s...


I'll remind you how slow Jarvis Moss after he is cut, if not this season, the next. The guy has "Bust" written all over him.

I'm cooling it off by staying off the boards for a while til around the next game.

Be back if allowed.

.

Wouldn't do you any good to remind me.

I guess you never noticed, but I wasn't in on that argument.

-----

[WhatEver!!!]

Being fast is good but technique gets you to the QB.

How many college games did he actually play?? Wasn't he the one with some non-injury ailment that hindered his playing time. Something to do with his muscles or something.
What I am getting at is how much experience does he actual have?? College and Pro. Not much is my guess.

Give him another 2 years and he could develop into a very good nickle package guy or if lucky a good all downs player

[dogfish]

We should have moved all the way up to the 10th spot to draft Patrick Willis. Our defense would be leaps and bounds better right now with Willis quarterbacking our defense. hind site of course, but that is what forums are for, for discussions.

.


be still my beating heart, nature boy actually said something i agree with!



:eek: :lol:


the denver post reported that we treid, but the texans weren't interested-- they wanted akoye. . . kubes probably learned from watching years of poor DL play here in denver. . . . :coffee:

[nevcraw]

You're also using the same references that cause the Broncos to make such a horrible draft selection in 2007 with the #17.

We should have moved all the way up to the 10th spot to draft Patrick Willis. Our defense would be leaps and bounds better right now with Willis quarterbacking our defense. hind site of course, but that is what forums are for, for discussions.

.

Jumping up from where they were sitting to 10 would have taken more than any one player is worth. You have your man crushes, that's fine but calling a guy a bust just because you didn't get your way is bit silly don't you think?

[Lonestar]

Jumping up from where they were sitting to 10 would have taken more than any one player is worth. You have your man crushes, that's fine but calling a guy a bust just because you didn't get your way is bit silly don't you think?

Ask him in 30 days.... :salute:

[omac]

Being fast is good but technique gets you to the QB.

How many college games did he actually play?? Wasn't he the one with some non-injury ailment that hindered his playing time. Something to do with his muscles or something.
What I am getting at is how much experience does he actual have?? College and Pro. Not much is my guess.

Give him another 2 years and he could develop into a very good nickle package guy or if lucky a good all downs player

Good point. We drafted him because of his potential upside, and mainly because Bates wanted him, not necessarily because he was polished as a player. Al Davis took it an even step further using a #1 on a big, strong armed quarterback who did good in college, but had weaknesses in the decisional QB skills. His upside was too much for Al to pass by. High risk, high reward, or high bust.

[LoyalSoldier]

The difference is Torrain actually looks good in practice. Moss doesn't. Not in practice or the limited times we've seen him.
.

Neither was Mario Williams, but he seemed to turn out ok. :rolleyes:

Again linemen are impossible to judge coming out of college because just like QBs it takes them so long to flourish.

[omac]

Neither was Mario Williams, but he seemed to turn out ok. :rolleyes:

Again linemen are impossible to judge coming out of college because just like QBs it takes them so long to flourish.

Yup, I remember everyone saying how the Texans were stupid to pass on Bush, specially after Williams' first season, but everyone's changed their tune now. Maybe Moss will make us change our tune in a year or so, maybe even this season.