JD Walton – Captain Awesome!

[Gimpygod]

For me Moreno was very pedestrian yesterday especially considering his first-round draft position. However our center played absolutely awesome football. On that long field-goal try he was the one who made the tackle all the way down field… He is a big SOB and still had the hustle and determination necessary to make the touchdown saving tackle…:elefant:. I witnessed him on several plays way the hell down field making crucial blocks on defensive backs after having blocked a defensive lineman, chipped a linebacker and then goes out and cut the safety or cornerback.:eek::salute: if people give individual effort like that even McDaniels can be successful (assuming they go the extra step by purchasing a crowbar and help him pry his head out of his Keister). Spencer Larsen also made me extremely happy on that third two when he busted through the tackles and crushed I believe it was a safety eight or 9 yards down the field.

I hope the team plays with this kind of grit for the rest of the season and I hope McDaniels is mature enough to allow that Elway might have had a part in this, motivating people to be as good as they can be is a potent tool… To Josh McDaniels: allow people to help you, encourage people to excel and stand up for themselves, be humble and the accolades will come.

[broncofaninfla]

I agree, Walton played one heck of a game yesterday. Loved the tackle as well!

[MileHighCrew]

I thought Moreno played pretty good honestly but I agree both the rookies on the O line played great.

[Broncolingus]

I thought the Cheerleaders rocked yesterday!

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/imhungwell/Cheerleaders/broncos-cheerleaders2.jpg

Was there a game?

[GEM]

Doesn't the LS snap the ball on field goal attempts? Guess Mr. NE got himself in the doghouse?

[topscribe]

I agree with the OP on Walton. However, I was thinking immediately after the
game that Moreno had lived up to his #1 status, at least for this game . . .

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[G_Money]

The OL kids did good this week.

Can we please never have Beadles at LT again? Like, ever? The kid CAN potentially play guard for us, but we're asking him to do things that aren't in his skillset.

Walton I still believe could be a good center. We cut down on some of the ridiculous things we were asking him to do with our stupid line scheme, from what I could tell, and he responded by mastering what we DID ask of him. I hope that continues.

~G

[rcsodak]

I agree, Walton played one heck of a game yesterday. Loved the tackle as well!
About time for being a 2nd rd pick. :coffee:
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About time for being a 2nd rd pick. :coffee:
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Be nice, RC. :D

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[Dzone]

Doesn't the LS snap the ball on field goal attempts? Guess Mr. NE got himself in the doghouse?
Walton is probably on the line for extra points and field goals, asa blocker

[NightTrainLayne]

Doesn't the LS snap the ball on field goal attempts? Guess Mr. NE got himself in the doghouse?

I'm not sure that Walton was doing the long-snapping yesterday.

[topscribe]

I'm not sure that Walton was doing the long-snapping yesterday.

Doesn't Lonnie do the long snapping?

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[shank]

Doesn't Lonnie do the long snapping?

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i'm sure paxton was snapping, but walton was surely out there blocking as well.

[SR]

Funny, because I thought Moreno played like a boss yesterday. He looked awesome.

[Traveler]

On that long field-goal try he was the one who made the tackle all the way down field…

Are you talking about the missed field goal and return by Eric Berry?

If so, maybe I missed something. I thought Colquitt was the one who tripped up Berry.

[SR]

Are you talking about the missed field goal and return by Eric Berry?

If so, maybe I missed something. I thought Colquitt was the one who tripped up Berry.

He did, but Walton ultimately made the tackle.

[horsepig]

I replayed the game last night and only watched the OL play. Everybody played extremely well except Kuper, and he wasn't bad. Beadles made some real nice plays next to Clady on run plays, as did Walton and Harris.

BTW, just where in the Hell has Harris been the last few games? He played very well. How could they sit him, play frikkin Russ, and have Beadles playing RT? It doesn't make sense to me.

[rationalfan]

For me Moreno was very pedestrian yesterday especially considering his first-round draft position.

this just strikes me as funny. why do we - fans - feel the need to need to weight a first round draft pick's production against his draft position, but not people picked lower in the draft?

for instance, why don't we say perrish cox played very well, for a sixth round draft pick?

it's a silly and wildly unfair and/or inconsistent way to grade players.

[WARHORSE]

The OL kids did good this week.

Can we please never have Beadles at LT again? Like, ever? The kid CAN potentially play guard for us, but we're asking him to do things that aren't in his skillset.

Walton I still believe could be a good center. We cut down on some of the ridiculous things we were asking him to do with our stupid line scheme, from what I could tell, and he responded by mastering what we DID ask of him. I hope that continues.

~G


Harris I believe was still not 100% and thats why he sat.
But the line looked great sunday and Kyle experienced very little pressure and was comfortable all day.

His jersey was clean at the end of the day.

[BroncoWave]

this just strikes me as funny. why do we - fans - feel the need to need to weight a first round draft pick's production against his draft position, but not people picked lower in the draft?

for instance, why don't we say perrish cox played very well, for a sixth round draft pick?

it's a silly and wildly unfair and/or inconsistent way to grade players.

Agreed. A player can't control where he was drafted. It's stupid to bash Moreno because he's "not playing like a first round pick". It's not his fault he was drafted there.

[Northman]

this just strikes me as funny. why do we - fans - feel the need to need to weight a first round draft pick's production against his draft position, but not people picked lower in the draft?

for instance, why don't we say perrish cox played very well, for a sixth round draft pick?

it's a silly and wildly unfair and/or inconsistent way to grade players.

Its not unfair.

Every team goes into any given draft looking to draft impact players in the first couple of rounds but namely the first round. Its how teams he rebuild and how other teams get solid depth, etc. 1st round picks are expected to be playmakers and contribute early and often for their respective teams. If a player who is drafted later plays above and beyond his draft position than thats just a bonus because the expectations were never there to begin with. But, when you invest the money in a first round guy you expect those guys to live up to their supposed value. If 1st round guys didnt have the expectations that they do the draft would be pointless in terms of how much money is poured into said players.

[Northman]

Agreed. A player can't control where he was drafted. It's stupid to bash Moreno because he's "not playing like a first round pick". It's not his fault he was drafted there.

So are you of the opinion and disagree with the guru's that Moreno is not first round worthy? Was he taken to high in your opinion?

[BroncoWave]

So are you of the opinion and disagree with the guru's that Moreno is not first round worthy? Was he taken to high in your opinion?

I don't think we've seen enough of him to determine that. My point is that if he is under-performing his first round pick status (which I'm not saying he is) it's McDaniels' fault for picking him there, not Moreno's fault for being picked there.

[UnderArmour]

About time for being a 2nd rd pick. :coffee:
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Actually, Walton was a 3rd round pick. You're thinking of Beadles.

[SR]

Agreed. A player can't control where he was drafted. It's stupid to bash Moreno because he's "not playing like a first round pick". It's not his fault he was drafted there.
It's a double edged sword. He did and he didn't. He did in the way that he chose to bust his ass in college so that he could get drafted high and make something of himself, but he didn't in the way that he didn't choose to be an extremely gifted athlete.

Moreno looked like a damn stud yesterday. He was plowing through people, jumping over people (a lot), falling forward for positive yards (only had one rush of 0 or negative yards), and making shit happen. He played like he was drafted to play (there's that again).

[Northman]

I don't think we've seen enough of him to determine that. My point is that if he is under-performing his first round pick status (which I'm not saying he is) it's McDaniels' fault for picking him there, not Moreno's fault for being picked there.

True, however it wasnt McD who rated him that high. I think its fair to say every coach who goes into any given draft is basing their obvservations on their scouting and information on the players. Even if McD doesnt take Moreno someone else would have somewhere in that first round.

[SR]

So are you of the opinion and disagree with the guru's that Moreno is not first round worthy? Was he taken to high in your opinion?

I think Moreno was first round worthy and he played like he's capable of playing yesterday. I think with the right line and right blocking scheme, he can be a perennial 1,000+ yard back.

All of the bashing of Moreno and people giving up on him is severely unfair. He obviously has the talent and the ability to be a feature back and to be successful doing so. It takes time.

[BroncoWave]

True, however it wasnt McD who rated him that high. I think its fair to say every coach who goes into any given draft is basing their obvservations on their scouting and information on the players. Even if McD doesnt take Moreno someone else would have somewhere in that first round.

True, but he can only control how he plays, not where he was drafted. If he's just not good enough to deserve a first round grade and the scouts/coaches were just dead wrong about him, is that really his fault? Now yeah, he is responsible for how he plays, but if he is playing to the best of his ability and that's just not good enough to justify his pick, how in the world can you blame that on him? That's just not fair at all.

[BroncoWave]

It's a double edged sword. He did and he didn't. He did in the way that he chose to bust his ass in college so that he could get drafted high and make something of himself, but he didn't in the way that he didn't choose to be an extremely gifted athlete.

Moreno looked like a damn stud yesterday. He was plowing through people, jumping over people (a lot), falling forward for positive yards (only had one rush of 0 or negative yards), and making shit happen. He played like he was drafted to play (there's that again).

I agree and I have high hopes for him.

But let's just say that a player busts his ass in the NFL every bit as much as he did in college but just isn't good enough to justify being picked in the first round. Is it really fair to bash the player for not playing like a first round pick if it was the scouts and coaches who were just wrong about him?

[SR]

To me, yesterday was a prime example of what Moreno was capable of. You didn't see any other Denver back run like Moreno did yesterday and the line blocked for them the same way they blocked for Moreno.

[SR]

I agree and I have high hopes for him.

But let's just say that a player busts his ass in the NFL every bit as much as he did in college but just isn't good enough to justify being picked in the first round. Is it really fair to bash the player for not playing like a first round pick if it was the scouts and coaches who were just wrong about him?

Nope.

The transition from college to pro is a difficult transition to make and a lot of players every single year sink trying to swim in the NFL. Moreno needs to just keep trying to stay healthy and build on what he did Sunday. He had a good year last year (seems people have forgotten he almost rushed for 1,000 yards last year and led all rookies in rushing yards and yards from scrimmage) and he has the ability to keep getting better IF HE CHOOSES TO.

[Northman]

I think Moreno was first round worthy and he played like he's capable of playing yesterday. I think with the right line and right blocking scheme, he can be a perennial 1,000+ yard back.

All of the bashing of Moreno and people giving up on him is severely unfair. He obviously has the talent and the ability to be a feature back and to be successful doing so. It takes time.

Yes and no.

Its still early but with first round talent we expect to see more of what we saw this past weekend. Although not every player can be a LT or AP when your drafted that high there are certain expectations that need to be met. If it was all based on the line than there would be no need to draft a RB in the first round. The reason they do is because those players often bring something more to the table than your ordinary back. Knowshon showed some of that in college but really hasnt stepped up to the plate for a guy of his supposed calibur. Could still happen as last week was a nice start but its not unfair to say he really hasnt shown what was promised thus far.

[SR]

And I think that's a bit of an unfair critique/observation.

[Northman]

And I think that's a bit of an unfair critique/observation.

Guess we agree to disagree. :lol:

[SR]

Guess we agree to disagree. :lol:

It's not even that so much. I totally understand your frame of mind and thought process, but I just don't think that like that.

I come from a hockey mindset where dudes get drafted in to the NHL straight out of high school, then go play college hockey for four years or get drafted at 19 or 20 out of the minors (or in some cases get drafted right out of high school and flourish in the NHL at 18 or 19). I've got a little more patience.

I remember when Chris Stewart was drafted by the Avs three or four years ago. He wasn't a full time player until last year. I was so damn excited when the Avs drafted him, but had to wait three damn years for him to finally suit up regularly, then he blew it up.

There is no transition for NFL players. The go from college to pro. There is no minor league or anything like that. Baseball and hockey have minors to develop their players. I'm willing to wait two-three years for a first or second round draft pick to develop and to be productive because I'm used to seeing that. I'm not ready to call a first round draft pick a bust after a year or two of playing like 90% of everyone else here is because I realize that the development and the transition takes time.

That's not to say I give everyone the same window because some times there is a bust (a la Maurice Clarett, etc) and at that point I'll call a spade a spade, but someone like Ayers or Moreno I truly believe will be a solid pro in time.

[Northman]

It's not even that so much. I totally understand your frame of mind and thought process, but I just don't think that like that.

I come from a hockey mindset where dudes get drafted in to the NHL straight out of high school, then go play college hockey for four years or get drafted at 19 or 20 out of the minors (or in some cases get drafted right out of high school and flourish in the NHL at 18 or 19). I've got a little more patience.

I remember when Chris Stewart was drafted by the Avs three or four years ago. He wasn't a full time player until last year. I was so damn excited when the Avs drafted him, but had to wait three damn years for him to finally suit up regularly, then he blew it up.

There is no transition for NFL players. The go from college to pro. There is no minor league or anything like that. Baseball and hockey have minors to develop their players. I'm willing to wait two-three years for a first or second round draft pick to develop and to be productive because I'm used to seeing that. I'm not ready to call a first round draft pick a bust after a year or two of playing like 90% of everyone else here is because I realize that the development and the transition takes time.

That's not to say I give everyone the same window because some times there is a bust (a la Maurice Clarett, etc) and at that point I'll call a spade a spade, but someone like Ayers or Moreno I truly believe will be a solid pro in time.


I know what your saying.

I guess in a perfect world the expectations of draft picks would be much lower but for whatever reason in the last 15 or so years its become more important when dealing with draft picks and the such. As for Clarett, i hated the pick then and still now. Shanahan thought he could make everyone a star but sometimes when its that obvious a player has problems or that much scrutiny the truth is in the pudding. Im sure Ayers and Moreno will pan out fine but considering the needs on this team my expectations of them are a bit higher than later picks. Same with Tebow as well. Like you, i just view it differently.

[rcsodak]

The OL kids did good this week.

Can we please never have Beadles at LT again? Like, ever? The kid CAN potentially play guard for us, but we're asking him to do things that aren't in his skillset.

Walton I still believe could be a good center. We cut down on some of the ridiculous things we were asking him to do with our stupid line scheme, from what I could tell, and he responded by mastering what we DID ask of him. I hope that continues.

~G
Beadles wasnt at LT. He was filling in for Harris at RT, while his foot healed.
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Beadles wasnt at LT. He was filling in for Harris at RT, while his foot healed.
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That was probably just a typo on G's part. He's pretty knowledgeable. . .

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[rcsodak]

I replayed the game last night and only watched the OL play. Everybody played extremely well except Kuper, and he wasn't bad. Beadles made some real nice plays next to Clady on run plays, as did Walton and Harris.

BTW, just where in the Hell has Harris been the last few games? He played very well. How could they sit him, play frikkin Russ, and have Beadles playing RT? It doesn't make sense to me.
he wasnt right....whether it was still physical with his foot or mental. He sounds fine now and thats whats important.
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[rationalfan]

Its not unfair.

Every team goes into any given draft looking to draft impact players in the first couple of rounds but namely the first round. Its how teams he rebuild and how other teams get solid depth, etc. 1st round picks are expected to be playmakers and contribute early and often for their respective teams. If a player who is drafted later plays above and beyond his draft position than thats just a bonus because the expectations were never there to begin with. But, when you invest the money in a first round guy you expect those guys to live up to their supposed value. If 1st round guys didnt have the expectations that they do the draft would be pointless in terms of how much money is poured into said players.

still, my point is that when a first rounder underachieves people are quick to say he's not living up to his draft position/potential/bs/whatever. but when a, say, 7th rounder exceeds his draft position/potential/bs/whatever he's never/rarely credited with the statement "he's performing much better than a seventh rounder." the labeling is inequitable. it's also not too important. i just found it interesting.

by the way, i don't need an explanation of the draft process (really, does anyone here?). sometimes y'all need to remember you're in a football forum.

[Northman]

still, my point is that when a first rounder underachieves people are quick to say he's not living up to his draft position/potential/bs/whatever. but when a, say, 7th rounder exceeds his draft position/potential/bs/whatever he's never/rarely credited with the statement "he's performing much better than a seventh rounder." the labeling is inequitable. it's also not too important. i just found it interesting.

by the way, i don't need an explanation of the draft process (really, does anyone here?). sometimes y'all need to remember you're in a football forum.

I apologize if it came across condescending. That wasnt my intention.

[rationalfan]

I apologize if it came across condescending. That wasnt my intention.

coolio.

[I Eat Staples]

To Josh McDaniels: allow people to help you, encourage people to excel and stand up for themselves, be humble and the accolades will come.

This^^^

Most of McD's problems don't come during the game. His play calling is questionable, but that's an iffy subject in general. His problems are dealing with people and scouting talent.

[rcsodak]

this just strikes me as funny. why do we - fans - feel the need to need to weight a first round draft pick's production against his draft position, but not people picked lower in the draft?
for instance, why don't we say perrish cox played very well, for a sixth round draft pick?
it's a silly and wildly unfair and/or inconsistent way to grade players.
I'm assuming your question is rhetorical. But in case its not....its easy ammo against the staff that dafted him. And cox would then be blind luck.
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[rcsodak]

Actually, Walton was a 3rd round pick. You're thinking of Beadles.
thx ua.....
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[rcsodak]

It's a double edged sword. He did and he didn't. He did in the way that he chose to bust his ass in college so that he could get drafted high and make something of himself, but he didn't in the way that he didn't choose to be an extremely gifted athlete.

Moreno looked like a damn stud yesterday. He was plowing through people, jumping over people (a lot), falling forward for positive yards (only had one rush of 0 or negative yards), and making shit happen. He played like he was drafted to play (there's that again).
funny how being healthy translates to better play.....
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[rcsodak]

excellent post and point, ingRed. :beer:
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[Elevation inc]

Funny, because I thought Moreno played like a boss yesterday. He looked awesome.

150 all purpose yds against a solid d like KC isnt good enough....sarcasm off/

[Montana Battlin Bear]

I am really looking forward to see how the rest of Moreno's season goes. The chiefs game was the first one all season where he has been healthy AND room to work with and he really shined. That touchdown catch of his was pure determination

[rcsodak]

That was probably just a typo on G's part. He's pretty knowledgeable. . .

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Those are not allowed here, Top. INEXCUSABLE!
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