Game observations

[Superchop 7]

The good:

Cutler looked great.

Andre Hall doesn't even look like the same guy I saw last year, pad level is lower, he is hitting the hole with authority and power, they should stash him away until the regular season imo, you don't want to risk injury.

Eddie Royal, is he the real deal or what ?

O-line, looking very good.

The bad:

Ramsey, no zip, no fire, his mechanics are horrible.

Middle linebacker, come regular season.....this will be exposed as the weakest link on the defense. This is definately a position that we need to ride the waiver wire or make a trade imo, our front four will play better with a quick, mean, nasty, disruptor at MLB.

Pittman, he should be playing FB, his RB days have passed him by.

Secondary needs to tighten up.

[Fan in Exile]

The thing that makes me think Eddie Royal is the real deal is that first catch. He saw the safety Hamlin coming he didn't run out of bounds but lowered his shoulder and hit him. Sure seems like a football player to me.

[spikerman]

Secondary needs to tighten up.
No doubt about this. It looked like Denver went into prevent mode with a 7 point lead in the second half. Tyrone Poole did not have a good game. WAAAYY too much cushion by the entire secondary in the second half.

[ikillz0mbies]

I thought the DE's looked pretty damn impressive in the game, they were quick and hit the QB a few times. As for Ramsey, he could've easily had 4 INT's in the game. He's not accurate and throwing balls too low or too high.

[omac]

I thought the DE's looked pretty damn impressive in the game, they were quick and hit the QB a few times. As for Ramsey, he could've easily had 4 INT's in the game. He's not accurate and throwing balls too low or too high.

Poor Martinez; Ramsey hung him out to dry.

Ramsey's got a lot on his mind, though, with the death of his grandma and the birth of his child.

[dogfish]

The thing that makes me think Eddie Royal is the real deal is that first catch. He saw the safety Hamlin coming he didn't run out of bounds but lowered his shoulder and hit him. Sure seems like a football player to me.



he also showed his willingness to catch the ball in traffic and fight for it in the air. . .

[Buff]

I agree on Pittman. I think any random dude off the streets can provide what he does. He doesn't have much burst, nor can he run people over like he used to. If it weren't for injuries to Torain and Alridge, he'd definitely be cut... I could see him being axed still.

Other observations--

Without Champ on the field, DJ is clearly the best athlete on the defense. His speed/strength combo is pretty sick. If he can stay healthy and the defense line improves even marginally I look for him to have a pro bowl type year.

We clearly still need help on the DL. Not much push from the starting front 4. Granted, Dallas' mammoth line can make any d-line look average, but the pass rush was negligible. Hopefully the presence of Robertson will give them a boost help keep guys fresh... I'm still waiting for anyone besides Elvis to make a play at DE...

Andre Hall looks good. Showed some power to go along with his speed and vision.. Still, I'm a little worried that we have 2 finesse backs. I hope we can keep them healthy throughout the season.

[dogfish]

I agree on Pittman. I think any random dude off the streets can provide what he does. He doesn't have much burst, nor can he run people over like he used to. If it weren't for injuries to Torain and Alridge, he'd definitely be cut... I could see him being axed still.

Other observations--

Without Champ on the field, DJ is clearly the best athlete on the defense. His speed/strength combo is pretty sick. If he can stay healthy and the defense line improves even marginally I look for him to have a pro bowl type year.

We clearly still need help on the DL. Not much push from the starting front 4. Granted, Dallas' mammoth line can make any d-line look average, but the pass rush was negligible. Hopefully the presence of Robertson will give them a boost help keep guys fresh... I'm still waiting for anyone besides Elvis to make a play at DE...

Andre Hall looks good. Showed some power to go along with his speed and vision.. Still, I'm a little worried that we have 2 finesse backs. I hope we can keep them healthy throughout the season.

a couple of good points. . . i agree that we're stocked with smallish speed backs and don't really seem to have a real bruiser, power back type-- but i'm hoping that hillis can step into that role (i haven't watched the whole game yet-- i watched the first half "live" on the NFLN replay, and i'll go back later and watch the second half off the DVR, so i can skip all the commercials :D ). . . sapp can at least contribute a little in that department, and hall does have some power for a little guy. . . right now, i wouldn't be shocked if we went into the season with young, hall, alridge, sapp and hillis, although durability would be a big concern. . . but hell, if you're down to your 3rd or 4th back you're probably screwed regardless. . . at this point, my top concern is keeping young guys with potential on the team, and if we end up sacrficing a win or two this year to build a stronger squad for the future, i can live with that. . .

[BANJOPICKER1]

Pittman is going to be a 3rd down back much along the line of the Pats Faulk me thinks.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!!

[Dreadnought]

Pittman is going to be a 3rd down back much along the line of the Pats Faulk me thinks.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!!

I've got a sneaking suspicion Pittman won't make the 53 man roster here.

[ikillz0mbies]

Pittman....well he didn't run like the muscle man hes made out to be. He pretty much went down easy on the first tackle. I really don't see him making the roster at this point. The Broncos should sign another bruiser type back before the preseason is over to push Pittman at least. I guess I could give Ramsey a little lee way for all the off field stuff going on that omac mentioned. And Royal definitely can play with the big boys. He plays with amazing toughness and heart. He is gonna be a GREAT receiver and will prove to be a steal in the draft. Despite his size, the way he is physical out there (i.e. Hamlin) will prove that he is not only just all speed, but strength as well.

[atwater27]

I agree on Pittman. I think any random dude off the streets can provide what he does. He doesn't have much burst, nor can he run people over like he used to. If it weren't for injuries to Torain and Alridge, he'd definitely be cut... I could see him being axed still.

Other observations--

Without Champ on the field, DJ is clearly the best athlete on the defense. His speed/strength combo is pretty sick. If he can stay healthy and the defense line improves even marginally I look for him to have a pro bowl type year.

We clearly still need help on the DL. Not much push from the starting front 4. Granted, Dallas' mammoth line can make any d-line look average, but the pass rush was negligible. Hopefully the presence of Robertson will give them a boost help keep guys fresh... I'm still waiting for anyone besides Elvis to make a play at DE...

Andre Hall looks good. Showed some power to go along with his speed and vision.. Still, I'm a little worried that we have 2 finesse backs. I hope we can keep them healthy throughout the season.
How is Andre a finesse back? Guy hits people straight in the mouth when he needs to. Andre has done nothing but produce when given the opportunity. I am stoked with our 2 backs.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Pittman....well he didn't run like the muscle man hes made out to be. He pretty much went down easy on the first tackle. I really don't see him making the roster at this point. The Broncos should sign another bruiser type back before the preseason is over to push Pittman at least. I guess I could give Ramsey a little lee way for all the off field stuff going on that omac mentioned. And Royal definitely can play with the big boys. He plays with amazing toughness and heart. He is gonna be a GREAT receiver and will prove to be a steal in the draft. Despite his size, the way he is physical out there (i.e. Hamlin) will prove that he is not only just all speed, but strength as well.

I don't agree about Pittman.

He looked like he wasn't doing well, but he was running behind the 2nd and 3rd team O-line. I was at the game and watching through my binoculars, you could see he was looking for the running lanes and they never developed.

Still, he would pound out a yard or two pretty much on his own.

I don't know if he'll make the team or not, but he isn't someone who lacks muscle.

:coffee:

[dogfish]

i just re-watched the first half, here are a few things i noticed. . . .


ryan harris looked much better, IMO-- he really seems to fire off the ball fast on running plays, and he's quick to the second level. . . he did miss zach thomas on that play where thomas stuffed andre hall in the hole, though. . .

i thought clady held his own in pass pro. . . i saw a couple of effective cut blocks from him on the backside of running plays, but also one where he went down and didn't take his guy down with him. . . when he's playside, i feel like he could do a little better job of playing through the whistle and trying to finish guys off, but we'll see. . .

i thought casey weigmann played pretty well, and he and hamilton seemed to work well together on the combo blocks. . . if nails can't go, we may not lose too much with weigmann in there. . .

niko koutivides-- oh wait, i didn't notice him at all! he's mostly invisible out there. . . i had to rewind plays and look for him, and as far as i can see he is hesitant and slow. . . both dj and winborn spent a good amount of time around the ball, but niko was nowhere near to be found on most plays. . . i don't want to judge a guy just on a couple of preseason games, but i'm really afraid we're going to be starting webster and looking for a new MIKE next offseason. . .

once again, we got very little pass rush from anyone not named elvis dumervil-- when we get to the regular season, i sure hope slowick has those blitz packages ready! jarvis moss did have one nice play, where he and mallard ran a stunt-- moss used an inside move on flozell adams, crossed his face and forced brad johnson to unload the ball. . . i also saw crowder in there a few times with the nickel defense, so at least he's getting some work with the starters. . . marcus thomas seems pretty smart about when to stop rushing and get his hands up. . .

[Buff]

How is Andre a finesse back? Guy hits people straight in the mouth when he needs to. Andre has done nothing but produce when given the opportunity. I am stoked with our 2 backs.

Maybe finesse back doesn't describe him that well. I'm more referring to the fact that we don't have a big bruising type back that can come in and punish the defense. It's also worth mentioning that Hall and Young missed multiple games to injury last year-- so there is still some reason to be concerned about the #3 back.

[atwater27]

Well, we haven't seen Mr. Hillis run the ball yet. He could be exactly that bruising runner we need in certain situations.

[LRtagger]

My observation was....Ramsey SUCKS BALLS

Also that I wish we had picked up Zach Thomas instead of Niko.

[WARHORSE]

Moss will be a good DE for the Broncos if he stays healthy. As he continues to play more and continues to get stronger, he will play better and better.

You heard it here first..........if no one else has stated it.http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/naughty.gif

--------Other thoughts-------------

The Oline is coming together nicely.

Champ will add an all new dimension to the defense, and his INT total will be up this year.

Boss coming back will help the D keep containment on the outside runs to the strongside.

Niko is SLOW. Although he is not much faster, Woodyard has much better reaction and play recognition skills. Id like him in the middle. Is Al Wilson busy?

Thomas is making me smile.

Laurinitis is on my wish list for next year.

Eddie Royal is 5' 10" but plays 6' 2".

We need to unleash more deep pass plays.

Selvin should change his 2000 yard prediction.............

The fact that Hillis is listed 2 on the depth chart even though he hasnt practiced much........tells you as soon as he does, he will be the number one.

On Hillis again, if he does for us what he did at Arkanas, we have a playmaker at the fullback position. A guy who can add alot to the offense.


I would like to hug Cutlers leg for a few long moments..........just for comforts sake.:coffee:

[Buff]

Moss will be a good DE for the Broncos if he stays healthy. As he continues to play more and continues to get stronger, he will play better and better.

What do you base this on? The fact that his 2nd year can't be much worse than the 1st?

I was listening to Vic Lombardi on The Fan this morning and he was talking about how Moss has had a really difficult time putting any more weight on his frame. I guess he's pretty sensitive about it when the media or coaches bring it up... There are some that think he's basically maxed out his physical potential in terms of strength-- So to just assume he's going to get stronger I think is a bit of a misconception IMO.

Granted, he should improve with experience and playing time-- but I'm worried that he just doesn't possess the size he desperately needs, and lacks the edge speed to become an elite rusher.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong... But we'll see.

[LRtagger]

Also, another thing to touch on considering our SP coverage is terrible...Prater looked excellent on kickoffs, booming most into the back of the endzone.

[turftoad]

What do you base this on? The fact that his 2nd year can't be much worse than the 1st?

I was listening to Vic Lombardi on The Fan this morning and he was talking about how Moss has had a really difficult time putting any more weight on his frame. I guess he's pretty sensitive about it when the media or coaches bring it up... There are some that think he's basically maxed out his physical potential in terms of strength-- So to just assume he's going to get stronger I think is a bit of a misconception IMO.

Granted, he should improve with experience and playing time-- but I'm worried that he just doesn't possess the size he desperately needs, and lacks the edge speed to become an elite rusher.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong... But we'll see.

6'6" and like the 240 range.

Maybe we could trade him to the Nuggets for Nene.

[MOtorboat]

6'6" and doen to like the 240 range.

Maybe we could trade him to the Nuggets for Nene.

Nene's got more injury problems than Nate Jackson.

[underrated29]

war i am with you about jarvis. The dude just needs some live game reps. I have noticed that he never stops and is always chasing down plays from behind. I look for him to strart to turn things on at/near the end of the year.

[WARHORSE]

What do you base this on? The fact that his 2nd year can't be much worse than the 1st?

I was listening to Vic Lombardi on The Fan this morning and he was talking about how Moss has had a really difficult time putting any more weight on his frame. I guess he's pretty sensitive about it when the media or coaches bring it up... There are some that think he's basically maxed out his physical potential in terms of strength-- So to just assume he's going to get stronger I think is a bit of a misconception IMO.

Granted, he should improve with experience and playing time-- but I'm worried that he just doesn't possess the size he desperately needs, and lacks the edge speed to become an elite rusher.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong... But we'll see.

Im saying it because of what I see on tape. Moss is learning the pro style 4-3 position, but hes learning it the way we tell him to. That means, hes playing the run first almost all the time, along with containment and in the past couple preseason games, those are the situations hes been in the most. Ive seen enough plays from him to know when a man is learning to disengage an OT simply by using his hands, and this guy can do it. He just needs more time. Before all is said and done, I think he will learn to keep the OTs from getting into him in the first place, which is key.

Strenth? Hes already gotten alot stronger from last year. I dont know about adding a whole bunch of weight, or who or what or when or why or where. But for pure strength, he will add it by simply being in the weight room, no matter what his body type.

This is my opinion, and Im hoping he stays injury free so we can all find out if Im right.

[WARHORSE]

war i am with you about jarvis. The dude just needs some live game reps. I have noticed that he never stops and is always chasing down plays from behind. I look for him to strart to turn things on at/near the end of the year.

Im with you. He needs really strong hands, along with lithe strength to go with his skillset. Watching him during the games, theres many times when hes got these guys at arms length while rushing. What hes trying to learn, which is hand placement at game speed, is probably the hardest thing to become good at in his position. I think its a matter of time, some strenth and technique for Jarvis. Thats it.

[dogfish]

i'm pretty much on board with that, war. . . when jarvis got hurt last year, i said at the time that i didn't think we were likely to really see him start putting things together until year three. . . sucks, but he was clearly a project coming out of college-- he didn't start all that much, was very raw, and was drafted on pure athletic ability and upside more than on-field production. . . has wasn't half as polished as elvis, and some guys just take time for the light to go on. . .

the guy has just missed too much time to injury, he NEEDS those consistent reps if he's going to figure out what to do with all that raw ability. . . it's too bad, and i know people want to see it from him-- especially after we traded up for him-- but that's how it goes when you pick that kind of player. . . the good news is that he showed a lot of determination fighting through the staph infection in college, so i think he has the heart and the drive to get better if he can stay on the field. . . all we can do is cross our fingers and hope that he stays healthy enough to reach some of that big potential. . .

[WARHORSE]

i'm pretty much on board with that, war. . . when jarvis got hurt last year, i said at the time that i didn't think we were likely to really see him start putting things together until year three. . . sucks, but he was clearly a project coming out of college-- he didn't start all that much, was very raw, and was drafted on pure athletic ability and upside more than on-field production. . . has wasn't half as polished as elvis, and some guys just take time for the light to go on. . .

the guy has just missed too much time to injury, he NEEDS those consistent reps if he's going to figure out what to do with all that raw ability. . . it's too bad, and i know people want to see it from him-- especially after we traded up for him-- but that's how it goes when you pick that kind of player. . . the good news is that he showed a lot of determination fighting through the staph infection in college, so i think he has the heart and the drive to get better if he can stay on the field. . . all we can do is cross our fingers and hope that he stays healthy enough to reach some of that big potential. . .


Agreed. No to mention even his playing time in college was stunted due to injury. I see the tools, the desire and the organization to thrive in. Once again, I just hope he can stay healthy in the hopes that we might have a glimpse of his potential paying off.

[DenBronx]

my wish list.

id like us to axe pittman and give alexander a try....yes alexander. i never thought is say it but at this point rb is a huge concern to me and shawn isnt going to command a huge contract. i think he by far a big upgrade over pittman.

axe ramsey as well. if possible maybe we can put hackney back into the practice squad and look for a real backup like culpepper. id feel alot better with a guy like culpepper in the game over ramsey....it would be a nightmare if cutler was injured.

then we need to pay close attention to all the waivers before the season starts at mlb. if not waivers then maybe we could swing a trade somehow. niko and webster so far are not impressing me at all.

[DenBronx]

i'm pretty much on board with that, war. . . when jarvis got hurt last year, i said at the time that i didn't think we were likely to really see him start putting things together until year three. . . sucks, but he was clearly a project coming out of college-- he didn't start all that much, was very raw, and was drafted on pure athletic ability and upside more than on-field production. . . has wasn't half as polished as elvis, and some guys just take time for the light to go on. . .

the guy has just missed too much time to injury, he NEEDS those consistent reps if he's going to figure out what to do with all that raw ability. . . it's too bad, and i know people want to see it from him-- especially after we traded up for him-- but that's how it goes when you pick that kind of player. . . the good news is that he showed a lot of determination fighting through the staph infection in college, so i think he has the heart and the drive to get better if he can stay on the field. . . all we can do is cross our fingers and hope that he stays healthy enough to reach some of that big potential. . .


i wanted us to snag reggie nelson or beason. when we dratfed up thats what i thought we were going to do. our lb issues would have been solved for the next 5 years with beason. :tsk:

[G_Money]

Im saying it because of what I see on tape. Moss is learning the pro style 4-3 position, but hes learning it the way we tell him to. That means, hes playing the run first almost all the time, along with containment and in the past couple preseason games, those are the situations hes been in the most. Ive seen enough plays from him to know when a man is learning to disengage an OT simply by using his hands, and this guy can do it. He just needs more time. Before all is said and done, I think he will learn to keep the OTs from getting into him in the first place, which is key.

Strenth? Hes already gotten alot stronger from last year. I dont know about adding a whole bunch of weight, or who or what or when or why or where. But for pure strength, he will add it by simply being in the weight room, no matter what his body type.

This is my opinion, and Im hoping he stays injury free so we can all find out if Im right.

Drafting Moss made me throw things across the room a couple of years ago. I didn't like drafting a 3rd down specialist as a project, and giving up draftpicks to move up for the privilege. We then compounded that by needing to trade more draftpicks to get back and take Thomas, since we'd flushed the pick we'd have taken him with on the Moss pick trade.

On the plus side:

- He looks really good as a physical specimen. I mean cut-out-of-granite good. He has like 4% body fat.

- He seems to have fully recovered from his broken leg which is REALLY GOOD NEWS.

- He crossed up the 'Boys starting LT on a beautiful stunt to get good access to the QB. The pass rush POTENTIAL is there.

On the other end of the ledger:

- While he looks chiseled, he isn't big enough to hold his ground against 320 lb OTs. He looks strong, but he's not THAT strong. Dumervil outweighs him as far as I can tell, or at worst has kept pace with him.

- He still has very little experience, so maybe he can take better advantage of that granite body with better technique as he goes along. But it still leaves us vulnerable this year. 2nd seasons are usually better for DEs than 1st seasons; it's a hard position to master. Since he was injured last year, though, I don't really think he'll prove his ultimate success or failure until next year. Which means we still can't address DE even if it's a problem for us after the season.

- He duplicates Dumervil's strengths and weaknesses thus far, even with his much-different body type - except that Doom has actually gotten sacks. And with our problems against the run and Dumervil's progress as a pass-rusher, I don't know how long we can run the both of them out there as the same type of third-down specialist. Doom isn't gonna get taller, so in theory you'd like to see Moss be the one to add weight and be able to stay on the field all day. But we'll have to see if that happens - right now I'd keep Doom, and just send the NFL a lot of tapes of all the headshots he takes every week in an attempt to get some of them called as penalties.

----------------------------------------------------

When Moss came out of college, his two routes to success were to be a slightly undersized pass-rush specialist, a la Richard Dent, or a tall and lanky rusher from the LB position, a la Simon Fletcher.

We're still hoping he can be Dent, but even lighter, in an era where the OTs are even bigger and faster. I dunno how that's gonna work for us, and it still frustrates me. If we'd taken Beason we'd have our MLB problem solved. Moss hasn't even started to solve our pass-rush problem yet.

Hopefully he starts to - soon. Because a LB conversion would be a problem for someone else to undertake, and we could really use a CONSISTENT pass rush.

Cross your fingers for his health and his progress. :coffee: We skipped Safety and MLB as needs in that 2007 draft and we still need them next year.

We don't have spare high draftpicks to use on more project DEs if this one doesn't work out.

~G

[lex]

Im not sure if they are doing it. But, if not, they should really consider putting Moss in on the FG block team. That dude in the 4th quarter of a 16-17 game at Florida, blocked two FGs to save the game and keep Floridas NC hopes alive.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Royal is something else.

[topscribe]

What do you base this on? The fact that his 2nd year can't be much worse than the 1st?

I was listening to Vic Lombardi on The Fan this morning and he was talking about how Moss has had a really difficult time putting any more weight on his frame. I guess he's pretty sensitive about it when the media or coaches bring it up... There are some that think he's basically maxed out his physical potential in terms of strength-- So to just assume he's going to get stronger I think is a bit of a misconception IMO.

Granted, he should improve with experience and playing time-- but I'm worried that he just doesn't possess the size he desperately needs, and lacks the edge speed to become an elite rusher.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong... But we'll see.

I'm usually one to say let's wait and give him a chance, almost to the
"homerish" side. But when a player has trouble putting on weight, that is a
bad, bad sign to me. I wasn't a bit worried that Holland was TFTP (Too Fat
To Play) because he could take it off, as he did, and join the guys.

But when an anatomy does not allow weight gain, it's tough . . . really
tough. I have a friend who is about 5'2" and very slender. He eats every bit
as much as I do. Yet I am overweight, and he's still slender. :mad:

He's tried to gain weight. It's not happening.

I'll just break off this ramble long enough to say that I smell bust. Hope my
adenoids are lying to me . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Royal is something else.

I jumped clear out of my chair when the Denver Broncos announced FAST EDDIE ROYAL as their second choice!!

Now all of Broncodom is finding out why.

Remember that name: FAST EDDIE!! :nixon:

-----

[Broncos Mtnman]

I jumped clear out of my chair when the Denver Broncos announce FAST EDDIE ROYAL as their second choice!!

Now all of Broncodom is finding out why.

Remember that name: FAST EDDIE!! :nixon:

-----

It was really cool at the game after he made those two big catches. I don't know if you could hear it on TV, but the crowd started chanting....

ED-DIE! ED-DIE!

Sounded like the Eddie McCaffrey days.....

[WARHORSE]

Drafting Moss made me throw things across the room a couple of years ago. I didn't like drafting a 3rd down specialist as a project, and giving up draftpicks to move up for the privilege. We then compounded that by needing to trade more draftpicks to get back and take Thomas, since we'd flushed the pick we'd have taken him with on the Moss pick trade.

On the plus side:

- He looks really good as a physical specimen. I mean cut-out-of-granite good. He has like 4% body fat.

- He seems to have fully recovered from his broken leg which is REALLY GOOD NEWS.

- He crossed up the 'Boys starting LT on a beautiful stunt to get good access to the QB. The pass rush POTENTIAL is there.

On the other end of the ledger:

- While he looks chiseled, he isn't big enough to hold his ground against 320 lb OTs. He looks strong, but he's not THAT strong. Dumervil outweighs him as far as I can tell, or at worst has kept pace with him.

- He still has very little experience, so maybe he can take better advantage of that granite body with better technique as he goes along. But it still leaves us vulnerable this year. 2nd seasons are usually better for DEs than 1st seasons; it's a hard position to master. Since he was injured last year, though, I don't really think he'll prove his ultimate success or failure until next year. Which means we still can't address DE even if it's a problem for us after the season.

- He duplicates Dumervil's strengths and weaknesses thus far, even with his much-different body type - except that Doom has actually gotten sacks. And with our problems against the run and Dumervil's progress as a pass-rusher, I don't know how long we can run the both of them out there as the same type of third-down specialist. Doom isn't gonna get taller, so in theory you'd like to see Moss be the one to add weight and be able to stay on the field all day. But we'll have to see if that happens - right now I'd keep Doom, and just send the NFL a lot of tapes of all the headshots he takes every week in an attempt to get some of them called as penalties.

----------------------------------------------------

When Moss came out of college, his two routes to success were to be a slightly undersized pass-rush specialist, a la Richard Dent, or a tall and lanky rusher from the LB position, a la Simon Fletcher.

We're still hoping he can be Dent, but even lighter, in an era where the OTs are even bigger and faster. I dunno how that's gonna work for us, and it still frustrates me. If we'd taken Beason we'd have our MLB problem solved. Moss hasn't even started to solve our pass-rush problem yet.

Hopefully he starts to - soon. Because a LB conversion would be a problem for someone else to undertake, and we could really use a CONSISTENT pass rush.

Cross your fingers for his health and his progress. :coffee: We skipped Safety and MLB as needs in that 2007 draft and we still need them next year.

We don't have spare high draftpicks to use on more project DEs if this one doesn't work out.

~G


Dont know about the chiseled specimen stuff. Jason Taylor looks the part.
All I know is what I see on the tape.

I like what I see, and I think he will do well this year, and really well next year.

[WARHORSE]

I'm usually one to say let's wait and give him a chance, almost to the
"homerish" side. But when a player has trouble putting on weight, that is a
bad, bad sign to me. I wasn't a bit worried that Holland was TFTP (Too Fat
To Play) because he could take it off, as he did, and join the guys.

But when an anatomy does not allow weight gain, it's tough . . . really
tough. I have a friend who is about 5'2" and very slender. He eats every bit
as much as I do. Yet I am overweight, and he's still slender. :mad:

He's tried to gain weight. It's not happening.

I'll just break off this ramble long enough to say that I smell bust. Hope my
adenoids are lying to me . . .

-----

I dont know where all this talk about Moss not being able to gain weight came from. He doesnt have any problem with that. He chooses to simply 'get stronger', while not wanting to add 'bulk'. He believes that hes most effective being light and powerful. I think hes right.

He'll gain more weight, but it will be muscle.

[scott.475]

I loved the way Royal just put his head down and plowed into that DB, knocking him back and clean off Royal a couple feet. Man, what a shot that was. From what I have seen, and it has not been a lot, he certainly is not playing or carrying himself like a rookie. It is one thing to hear training camp bites, and hear Eddie talk about how he did not want to come across like a rookie, but to actually see it is something else entirely!

[topscribe]

I dont know where all this talk about Moss not being able to gain weight came from. He doesnt have any problem with that. He chooses to simply 'get stronger', while not wanting to add 'bulk'. He believes that hes most effective being light and powerful. I think hes right.

He'll gain more weight, but it will be muscle.

That begs the question, then, why did he not address it more assiduously
during the offseason? Cutler gained his 30 pounds back. Young added eight
pounds to his body. Why is it that Moss slid down to 245? He was supposed
to come back as a DE, not a LB . . . that is a LB's weight.

From camp reports that I have been viewing (which have been open to all),
Moss has been destroyed on running plays, and the results are mixed regarding
his pass rushing. That about covers it, doesn't it?

-----

[turftoad]

That begs the question, then, why did he not address it more assiduously
during the offseason? Cutler gained his 30 pounds back. Young added eight
pounds to his body. Why is it that Moss slid down to 245? He was supposed
to come back as a DE, not a LB . . . that is a LB's weight.

From camp reports that I have been viewing (which have been open to all),
Moss has been destroyed on running plays, and the results are mixed regarding
his pass rushing. That about covers it, doesn't it?

-----

Yep.......

And........ there have been articles and concerns about him being able to keep weight on. He's got a lean body frame that won't allow him to keep it on.

You can't compare him to Jason Taylor. Taylor is the exception to the rule. Not only that but Moss and Taylor are the same height. Taylor weighs like 265lbs and Moss is down to like 245lbs.

I hope War is right and he can put some muscle weight on but as Top said, why didn't he try harder to do so during the off season instead of losing 20 lbs.

[broncobryce]

And if you are wondering where it comes from, there was an article in the DP I think about how Moss is having trouble gaining weight. They thought it was due to some disease he had, but now in the pros he still can't gain weight so we'll see.

[omac]

I remember the talk during that time.

Moss was taken because he's a fit as a Bates-type player. I also remember people saying he was obviously not Mikey's pick, but Bates' pick, as Bates liked those tall, lanky, speedy edge rushers, and they were comparing him to a player in Bates' system once (can't recall who).

Let's wait and see if he can make an impact.

[turftoad]

When he came out of college he was projected more as an OLB for the 3-4 "D".

If he doesn't gain some weight and start comming around, he won't be here long.

Maybe we can get something for him from a team that runs the 3-4.

[omac]

When he came out of college he was projected more as an OLB for the 3-4 "D".

If he doesn't gain some weight and start comming around, he won't be here long.

Maybe we can get something for him from a team that runs the 3-4.

Sounds like a plan. :cheers:

[MOtorboat]

He rocks on Madden. I led the lead in sacks with him.:rolleyes::beer:

[topscribe]

He rocks on Madden. I led the lead in sacks with him.:rolleyes::beer:
Yes, but his performance on the field has been . . . um . . . *cough* . . . madden-ing.

:couch:

-----

[Gimpygod]

Nene's got more injury problems than Nate Jackson.


I have noticed this about Nate Jackson also, I think he would dislocate his hip if he broke wind. How in the world has he maintained a roster spot?!

[Lonestar]

I have noticed this about Nate Jackson also, I think he would dislocate his hip if he broke wind. How in the world has he maintained a roster spot?!

he has pictures of mikey and a 6 old boy in the bathroom stall..

[LRtagger]

put him at mike...he couldnt be any worse than Niko or Webster could he? ;)

[Ziggy]

That begs the question, then, why did he not address it more assiduously
during the offseason? Cutler gained his 30 pounds back. Young added eight
pounds to his body. Why is it that Moss slid down to 245? He was supposed
to come back as a DE, not a LB . . . that is a LB's weight.

From camp reports that I have been viewing (which have been open to all),
Moss has been destroyed on running plays, and the results are mixed regarding
his pass rushing. That about covers it, doesn't it?

-----


I've heard and seen the opposite. The day I went he was solid against the run, and I remember reading a couple of other times that he was blowing up running plays.

[broncosinindy]

Moss will be a good DE for the Broncos if he stays healthy. As he continues to play more and continues to get stronger, he will play better and better.

You heard it here first..........if no one else has stated it.http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/naughty.gif

--------Other thoughts-------------

The Oline is coming together nicely.

Champ will add an all new dimension to the defense, and his INT total will be up this year.

Boss coming back will help the D keep containment on the outside runs to the strongside.

Niko is SLOW. Although he is not much faster, Woodyard has much better reaction and play recognition skills. Id like him in the middle. Is Al Wilson busy?

Thomas is making me smile.

Laurinitis is on my wish list for next year.

Eddie Royal is 5' 10" but plays 6' 2".

We need to unleash more deep pass plays.

Selvin should change his 2000 yard prediction.............

The fact that Hillis is listed 2 on the depth chart even though he hasnt practiced much........tells you as soon as he does, he will be the number one.

On Hillis again, if he does for us what he did at Arkanas, we have a playmaker at the fullback position. A guy who can add alot to the offense.


I would like to hug Cutlers leg for a few long moments..........just for comforts sake.:coffee:
from everything i have seen hillis reminds me of a chris cooley

[topscribe]

I've heard and seen the opposite. The day I went he was solid against the run, and I remember reading a couple of other times that he was blowing up running plays.

Well, I would much rather believe the versions you heard.

-----

[WARHORSE]

he has pictures of mikey and a 6 old boy in the bathroom stall..


Not even funny.

At all.
:tsk:

[WARHORSE]

That begs the question, then, why did he not address it more assiduously
during the offseason? Cutler gained his 30 pounds back. Young added eight
pounds to his body. Why is it that Moss slid down to 245? He was supposed
to come back as a DE, not a LB . . . that is a LB's weight.

From camp reports that I have been viewing (which have been open to all),
Moss has been destroyed on running plays, and the results are mixed regarding
his pass rushing. That about covers it, doesn't it?

-----

Address what, gaining weight?

He said he stopped trying to gain weight. He lost weight from the down time with the injury. Instead of trying to gain the weight back, he instead focused on getting stronger.........which he did.

Dont know which camp reports youve been reading or listening to, but Ive heard that Moss has been doing well against the run, at a minimum, far and away better than last year.

[WARHORSE]

Well, I would much rather believe the versions you heard.

-----


Here you go:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=334386&postcount=3 (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=334386&postcount=3)

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=326188&postcount=1 (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=326188&postcount=1)

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=325348&postcount=1 (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=325348&postcount=1)

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=324086&postcount=2 (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=324086&postcount=2)

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=323286&postcount=1 (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=323286&postcount=1)

[Timmy!]

This is the year Nate Jackson serves warm fried crow to all the haters...for 5 games.

:D

[frauschieze]

This is the year Nate Jackson serves warm fried crow to all the haters...for 5 games.

:D

At which point he gets injured.....again.......and gets put back on IR.......again........

[Superchop 7]

Nate Jackson has amazing abilities, I blame most injuries on Tuten, he really needs to get up to speed on modern training techniques.

As for Jarvis Moss, his improvement will come year 3. (not a bust)

Actually, they need to put Woodyard where DJ is and move DJ back to the middle. (Boss, DJ, Woodyard is a pretty good lineup)

Good stuff guys.

[Timmy!]

At which point he gets injured.....again.......and gets put back on IR.......again........

Hence the "5" games... :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Nate Jackson has amazing abilities, I blame most injuries on Tuten, he really needs to get up to speed on modern training techniques.

As for Jarvis Moss, his improvement will come year 3. (not a bust)

Actually, they need to put Woodyard where DJ is and move DJ back to the middle. (Boss, DJ, Woodyard is a pretty good lineup)

Good stuff guys.

What are you basing your comment on in regards to Tuten really needing to get up to speed on modern training techniques?

[Timmy!]

What are you basing your comment on in regards to Tuten really needing to get up to speed on modern training techniques?

5 games Carol. You know it. I know it. Does Ihop/Dennies sound good for breakfast sometime :D

[WhatEver!!!]

Looking at the Cowboys game I see a few things: first string
1. Young should not be the starting back -- Hall should be.
2. Foxy is pretty dam good. Put on TO and held his own. Never allowed TO to get behind him
3. Oline looked very good; why, Cutler was not touched -- running was OK so line was not awesome
4. Royal -- first WR to start for the Broncos as a rookie -- dam he's good
5. I hear both sides but I believe we will be a pass first offense with heavy run when we are touchdowns ahead
6. Secondary was good overall -- no Champ still did not give up anything that killed us.
7. LB -- I think Kito should start because the players see him as a leader -- from Broncos home page -- leadership is critical
8. We scored 3 TD in 4 drives : WOOOOOOOOOhoooooo
9. Field Goals 6-8 -- 75% not bad for a first year man. From 52 yds also...

[underrated29]

Looking at the Cowboys game I see a few things: first string
1. Young should not be the starting back -- Hall should be.
2. Foxy is pretty dam good. Put on TO and held his own. Never allowed TO to get behind him
3. Oline looked very good; why, Cutler was not touched -- running was OK so line was not awesome
4. Royal -- first WR to start for the Broncos as a rookie -- dam he's good
5. I hear both sides but I believe we will be a pass first offense with heavy run when we are touchdowns ahead
6. Secondary was good overall -- no Champ still did not give up anything that killed us.
7. LB -- I think Kito should start because the players see him as a leader -- from Broncos home page -- leadership is critical
8. We scored 3 TD in 4 drives : WOOOOOOOOOhoooooo
9. Field Goals 6-8 -- 75% not bad for a first year man. From 52 yds also...


I DONT KNWO What you mean by champ did not give up anythign that killed us. Because he rarely ever gives up anything in the first place.

Also- i am fairly certain that champ did not play in that game. So he wouldnt have given up anything. Are you thinking maybe dre bly?

[Lonestar]

I DONT KNWO What you mean by champ did not give up anythign that killed us. Because he rarely ever gives up anything in the first place.

Also- i am fairly certain that champ did not play in that game. So he wouldnt have given up anything. Are you thinking maybe dre bly?


he was watching a different game than most folks did..

foxworthless did not allow TO to get behind him but he did allow him to catch everything thrown at him AND several other scrubs to blow by him. Had the passes been fly routes and on the mark they would have scored..


Think ashley also started a few games as a rookie.. although I could be wrong on this one.. but I doubt it.. BTW this one royale played in was a preseason game..


We scored TWO TD's in the game on ten possessions

Champ did not play!!

Again maybe it was a different game..

[NightTrainLayne]

He means, No Champ, AND we still didn't give up anything that killed us.

I.E. we'll be better with Champ in there.

[Lonestar]

He means, No Champ, AND we still didn't give up anything that killed us.

I.E. we'll be better with Champ in there.


well that makes a bit more sense..

reading is fundamental

writing is crucial..

[WhatEver!!!]

He means, No Champ, AND we still didn't give up anything that killed us.

I.E. we'll be better with Champ in there.

thanks for being intelligent, NightTrainLayne

To everyone else who could not figure out I did not put a comma where it belonged. GET OVER YOURSELF!!!

Now for the other questionable remarked made by some

I believe Royal will be our #2 WR at the beginning of the year. Yes, this is preseason but he still made plays against the #1 D "of the Cowboys" for those of you who watch another game

Foxy -- did have a great game, PERIOD... TO was contained -- which most CB can not do. About the "if the ball was not overthrown they would have" --> who gives a RATS-A55 about what ifs. Did he do his job, YES.

Ashley may have started some games; I do not know... WOW someone that admits he is wrong, is that a new concept??

PS what does KNWO mean??? Is that a new word in the English Dictionary -- huh, overrated29.

Look at the being of the list --- what does it say -- WOW does it say FIRST STRING?????

NOW can't we just get along??? :welcome:

[LRtagger]

LOL wow defensive.

Foxy stunk it up. He gave up the only TD of the game to MILES AUSTIN, a third year scrub from Monmouth (????) college. Austin had two catches for 42 yards against Foxy on ONE DRIVE with Brad Johnson throwing the ball. He kept up pretty well in coverage, but he had no idea where the ball was in the air. Hence the reason he led the team in tackles (he was right there to make the tackle as soon as the guy he was covering was done catching the ball for a 15+ yard gain).

TO only played the first quarter. He had 5 balls thrown to him. He had 3 catches for 20 yards. One of those catches was for a first down on a 3rd down play with Fox covering. He never allowed TO to get by him because TO was running routes underneath because he had so much cushion.

[underrated29]

PS what does KNWO mean??? Is that a new word in the English Dictionary -- huh, overrated29.

Look at the being of the list --- what does it say -- WOW does it say FIRST STRING?????

NOW can't we just get along??? :welcome:



Chill Buddy!

1. I did not call you out on your comma. I just didnt understand your sentence. NTL cleared that all up though.

2. As far as the spelling goes big deal. Thats something nature boy would whine about. Plus you have several spelling/ grammatical errors yourself. So I wouldnt call someone out like that again, especially when you did the very same thing.

3. Lastly, Howard griffith is in no way overrated. He is very very underrated, he is underrated #29, when he played for the broncos.

Now that we have that out of the way we can get along.

[Buff]

thanks for being intelligent, NightTrainLayne

To everyone else who could not figure out I did not put a comma where it belonged. GET OVER YOURSELF!!!

Now for the other questionable remarked made by some

I believe Royal will be our #2 WR at the beginning of the year. Yes, this is preseason but he still made plays against the #1 D "of the Cowboys" for those of you who watch another game

Foxy -- did have a great game, PERIOD... TO was contained -- which most CB can not do. About the "if the ball was not overthrown they would have" --> who gives a RATS-A55 about what ifs. Did he do his job, YES.

Ashley may have started some games; I do not know... WOW someone that admits he is wrong, is that a new concept??

PS what does KNWO mean??? Is that a new word in the English Dictionary -- huh, overrated29.

Look at the being of the list --- what does it say -- WOW does it say FIRST STRING?????

NOW can't we just get along??? :welcome:

Check your tone at the door Carolina.

[WhatEver!!!]

Well, well. Seems like we got some bad vibes going here.

Check the tone --> I agree we should all check it. So we all overreacted to something in the past few posts.

Now my opinion about Foxy stays... You are correct about the yardage and TD but the TD was a 5 yd pass so that takes the sting out of the 15 yarders mentioned above; for me that is. At least it was not a 20+ yard TD pass.

Do I want Foxy to start, NO... He could be a top 3 Nickle CB but no Champ. He was playing against the #1 receiver (Top 3 in the league) for a quarter and held him to 3 catches for 20 yards and no TDs. And as mentioned he made the tackle against TO. He played an a pretty dam(b) good game for being our Nickle CB against TO.

[Superchop 7]

To oversimplify....

Tutens principles are to use "the pyramid" philiosphy to weight training, start light and work towards max.

He uses 2 different exercises to target the same muscles.

Believes in short intense burst training.


MODERN DAY

The pyramid philosophy decreases flexibility and increases risk of injury, modern day training utilizes several philosophies including pyramid, lower rate "work until failure" and negative resistance training, with efforts recorded in all 3 categories.

Targeting muscle groups with only 2 different types of exercise can also lead to injury, any type of core training should involve at least 6 types of exercise for maximum strength and stability.

Under the same principles, training simply for short intense bursts (rather than an intense cardio program) becomes a real problem in the 4th quarter, once again, training for both is far better than training one dimensionally.

Flexibility is described as "range of motion around a joint", anyone remember Nate Jacksons groin injury last year ?, he is a guy that "bulked up" to play tight end but has very limited range of motion, his groin injury should have never happened, most people on this board have better flexibility than he does, where is he now ? Oh yeah, injured.

Tuten is a great motivator, but thats all.

A change in philosophy will reduce injuries, create better overall conditioning, improve flexibility, stabilize core groups of muscles and increase wins.

[Superchop 7]

On a sidenote,

I saw my Doctor yesterday. (needed Ambien)

He is a big Bronco fan.....

He is also "very" concerned about Torrain.

In his opinion....

This is a "very" difficult injury to come back from.

They should not rush it.

He recommended IR for the year.

In short, I think it's time we think about Ryan first, Broncos second.

[LRtagger]

Now my opinion about Foxy stays... You are correct about the yardage and TD but the TD was a 5 yd pass so that takes the sting out of the 15 yarders mentioned above; for me that is. At least it was not a 20+ yard TD pass.

Do I want Foxy to start, NO... He could be a top 3 Nickle CB but no Champ. He was playing against the #1 receiver (Top 3 in the league) for a quarter and held him to 3 catches for 20 yards and no TDs. And as mentioned he made the tackle against TO. He played an a pretty dam(b) good game for being our Nickle CB against TO.

Yea, but he gave up a 37 yard pass that led to the TD. Giving up a redzone TD to a backup QB and scrub WR is not very encouraging to me. Fox is an excellent cover guy, but he 1) is not aggressive enough, and 2) never has any idea where the ball is. This is a BAD BAD formula if he is man-up especially in the redzone.

Dallas had the ball for one possession in the 1st quarter. That means TO had 3 for 20 in one possession...and would have had a long catch had the ball not been overthrown. I wouldn't call that stellar coverage.

Fox is a great backup for us...but that's all he'll ever be IMO.

[lex]

Our DTs are much better than last year.

Williams at WLB is a big improvement.

Niko hasnt looked good. He is either too slow or too slow to react to plays. Too much goes on infront of him.

I saw Kuper get used (on that holding call) but the center did a great job of accounting for the DT and getting over to help him.

Dooms sack came because Thomas dropped into coverage. A nice wrinkle by the coaches because thats clearly where Johnson was looking.