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rationalfan
11-12-2010, 07:01 PM
remember nate jackson? journeyman receiver some broncos fans loved (no idea why). well, he's writing for slate, apparently. here's a column mostly about mangini in cleveland, but it manages to rip into mcd as well.

haters, this will be your new fuel:

http://www.slate.com/id/2274230/entry/2274686/

"Each day you must choose: the pain of discipline, or the pain of regret." This is one of the many mantras that Coach Eric Mangini has painted in large, intimidating block letters, strategically located around the Cleveland Browns facility. Players are expected to have all of these mantras memorized. During team meetings, Mangini will call on a player, who must stand up and face a dreaded interrogation. "There is a quote written above the door to the locker room, what does it say and who said it?" Better get it verbatim. "What coverage do the Titans like to play in the red zone on third-and-long vs. our 11 personnel group?" Better know it. "Why are we choosing to punt on fourth-and-2 from their 38, down by six points, going in to halftime, when we have a field goal kicker who is good from 55 yards?" Better know that one, too.
This was the environment that existed in Cleveland last August. I was on the team for one week, toward the end of training camp. I was not around long enough to learn much about the playbook, or get to know my teammates, or get into any kind of football rhythm, but it was plenty of time to get a feel for Mangini's coaching style and to see how his players reacted to it. From that very first meeting, certain things became very clear. Players had notes—pages and pages of hastily scribbled notes—laid out in front of them on their desks and on their laps. I didn't know why until Mangini called on a player, asked him to stand, and quizzed him on extremely arbitrary statistics about the team we were set to play that week. And this was preseason.

Mangini's football IQ is through the roof. His attention to detail is legendary, but—at least as of last summer—he had zero understanding of his audience. Getting the most out of a professional athlete does not involve filling his head with useless facts and statistics and probabilities, and filling him with fear of what may happen if he forgets them. When I was in Cleveland, I saw an extremely talented football team—big, fast, strong athletes who were in great physical shape—who hated playing football there. All of them did. The facility was newly remodeled, outfitted with high ceilings and industrial steel. It felt cold. People walked around that place as if they were shuffling through a mausoleum. Players looked emotionally drained. Granted, it was training camp. Training camp is hard wherever you are. But these men were not just weak of body, they were weak of spirit, having been stripped of their manhood almost daily as Mangini tried to create 53 perfect cyborg football players.
The same thing is happening in Denver, where Josh McDaniels is making another crop of freakishly talented football players hate their jobs. The result—no big surprise here—is a bad football team. That's what the Browns have been under Mangini and what the Broncos have been under McDaniels.
The psychology goes like this: Players used to love the game. They enjoyed their talent and had high self-esteem. If a coach comes along who makes them feel insecure and paranoid, they begin to hate the game. Then they begin to hate the man who made them hate the game. When they hate the man, they hate his agenda. His agenda, in this case, is an impersonal obsession with winning a football game, with (the perception is) little respect for the players who are doing the winning. The result: a player who doesn't care whether his team wins or loses. And it happens constantly.
Advertisement

The good coaches are malleable, open-minded, humble. The good coaches make it feel like it's our team, not his team. The good coaches understand that there is a fine line between being prepared and being confounded. The good coaches adjust their approach when they see 53 grown men ready to cry on a daily basis. These are the best athletes in the world. You don't have to run them into the ground and call them pussies. You simply have to turn them loose. Sure, you must do so intelligently, with the opposing team's strengths and weaknesses in mind. But you can't project your own pedantic, inactive analysis of the game onto the athletes who actually have to do it.
I'd like to think that someone as smart as Eric Mangini can learn from what has happened in Cleveland—that he could sense that his tactics weren't working. Perhaps the Browns' success over the last few games is an indication that Mangini has finally painted over those corny mantras and let his boys play. For the sake of my former teammates, at least, I hope that's what's going on.
As for public concern about the health of the players, the occasional gasps of horror about concussions are completely rhetorical, because there is no personal point of reference. People don't actually view these athletes as humans. They are Things I See on Television. I learned this long ago, when I started playing in Denver. When I would meet someone who knew I played in the NFL, their eyes would glaze over and they would start speaking to me as if I were visiting from another planet. I don't blame the fans for this. The NFL markets its players that way, as interchangeable superheroes. You see them on Sunday. The other six days of the week, they don't exist. They are there for your entertainment.
So, Josh, are you not entertained?

Ravage!!!
11-12-2010, 07:08 PM
seems he has a pretty good head on his shoulders

dogfish
11-12-2010, 07:33 PM
seems he has a pretty good head on his shoulders

and he actually joined mania to bitch dream out! that was freakin' cool. . .


:lol:

Ravage!!!
11-12-2010, 07:55 PM
and he actually joined mania to bitch dream out! that was freakin' cool. . .


:lol:

Seriously??? :lol: I did not know that.... that is AWSOME

claymore
11-12-2010, 07:58 PM
and he actually joined mania to bitch dream out! that was freakin' cool. . .


:lol:

That makes dream almost famous.

dogfish
11-12-2010, 08:05 PM
Seriously??? :lol: I did not know that.... that is AWSOME

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=98305&highlight=nate+jackson


:elefant:

LordTrychon
11-12-2010, 08:05 PM
and he actually joined mania to bitch dream out! that was freakin' cool. . .


:lol:

How could I have forgotten/missed this?

HORSEPOWER 56
11-12-2010, 08:12 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=98305&highlight=nate+jackson


:elefant:

The hilarious thing is that a full 1/2 of the posters in that thread are now regulars here... ah it takes me back!

Dog, Rav, Top, GEM, and me. Pretty damned funny. RNJ?FU... Funny Shit!

Medford Bronco
11-12-2010, 08:20 PM
The hilarious thing is that a full 1/2 of the posters in that thread are now regulars here... ah it takes me back!

Dog, Rav, Top, GEM, and me. Pretty damned funny. RNJ?FU... Funny Shit!

Back when that was a good board. It has fallen by the wayside now.

No ads back in the day. No white background. Just fun

LordTrychon
11-12-2010, 08:22 PM
Ok, that was darned funny.

WARHORSE
11-12-2010, 08:27 PM
remember nate jackson? journeyman receiver some broncos fans loved (no idea why). well, he's writing for slate, apparently. here's a column mostly about mangini in cleveland, but it manages to rip into mcd as well.

haters, this will be your new fuel:

http://www.slate.com/id/2274230/entry/2274686/

"Each day you must choose: the pain of discipline, or the pain of regret." This is one of the many mantras that Coach Eric Mangini has painted in large, intimidating block letters, strategically located around the Cleveland Browns facility. Players are expected to have all of these mantras memorized. During team meetings, Mangini will call on a player, who must stand up and face a dreaded interrogation. "There is a quote written above the door to the locker room, what does it say and who said it?" Better get it verbatim. "What coverage do the Titans like to play in the red zone on third-and-long vs. our 11 personnel group?" Better know it. "Why are we choosing to punt on fourth-and-2 from their 38, down by six points, going in to halftime, when we have a field goal kicker who is good from 55 yards?" Better know that one, too.
This was the environment that existed in Cleveland last August. I was on the team for one week, toward the end of training camp. I was not around long enough to learn much about the playbook, or get to know my teammates, or get into any kind of football rhythm, but it was plenty of time to get a feel for Mangini's coaching style and to see how his players reacted to it. From that very first meeting, certain things became very clear. Players had notes—pages and pages of hastily scribbled notes—laid out in front of them on their desks and on their laps. I didn't know why until Mangini called on a player, asked him to stand, and quizzed him on extremely arbitrary statistics about the team we were set to play that week. And this was preseason.

Mangini's football IQ is through the roof. His attention to detail is legendary, but—at least as of last summer—he had zero understanding of his audience. Getting the most out of a professional athlete does not involve filling his head with useless facts and statistics and probabilities, and filling him with fear of what may happen if he forgets them. When I was in Cleveland, I saw an extremely talented football team—big, fast, strong athletes who were in great physical shape—who hated playing football there. All of them did. The facility was newly remodeled, outfitted with high ceilings and industrial steel. It felt cold. People walked around that place as if they were shuffling through a mausoleum. Players looked emotionally drained. Granted, it was training camp. Training camp is hard wherever you are. But these men were not just weak of body, they were weak of spirit, having been stripped of their manhood almost daily as Mangini tried to create 53 perfect cyborg football players.
The same thing is happening in Denver, where Josh McDaniels is making another crop of freakishly talented football players hate their jobs. The result—no big surprise here—is a bad football team. That's what the Browns have been under Mangini and what the Broncos have been under McDaniels.
The psychology goes like this: Players used to love the game. They enjoyed their talent and had high self-esteem. If a coach comes along who makes them feel insecure and paranoid, they begin to hate the game. Then they begin to hate the man who made them hate the game. When they hate the man, they hate his agenda. His agenda, in this case, is an impersonal obsession with winning a football game, with (the perception is) little respect for the players who are doing the winning. The result: a player who doesn't care whether his team wins or loses. And it happens constantly.
Advertisement

The good coaches are malleable, open-minded, humble. The good coaches make it feel like it's our team, not his team. The good coaches understand that there is a fine line between being prepared and being confounded. The good coaches adjust their approach when they see 53 grown men ready to cry on a daily basis. These are the best athletes in the world. You don't have to run them into the ground and call them pussies. You simply have to turn them loose. Sure, you must do so intelligently, with the opposing team's strengths and weaknesses in mind. But you can't project your own pedantic, inactive analysis of the game onto the athletes who actually have to do it.
I'd like to think that someone as smart as Eric Mangini can learn from what has happened in Cleveland—that he could sense that his tactics weren't working. Perhaps the Browns' success over the last few games is an indication that Mangini has finally painted over those corny mantras and let his boys play. For the sake of my former teammates, at least, I hope that's what's going on.
As for public concern about the health of the players, the occasional gasps of horror about concussions are completely rhetorical, because there is no personal point of reference. People don't actually view these athletes as humans. They are Things I See on Television. I learned this long ago, when I started playing in Denver. When I would meet someone who knew I played in the NFL, their eyes would glaze over and they would start speaking to me as if I were visiting from another planet. I don't blame the fans for this. The NFL markets its players that way, as interchangeable superheroes. You see them on Sunday. The other six days of the week, they don't exist. They are there for your entertainment.
So, Josh, are you not entertained?

Seems to me Manginas boys are actually starting to kick butt.

Wonder what they would look like with a real quarterback.

Im sure Nate has something to offer. But what the heck has Nate done?

When you get millions of dollars, and your job is to perform, a professional will rise to the occasion. Or he'll quit.

So, with every up, theres a down.

I dont give a crap if the players dont like the coach or his style. They are paid to play, and anything short of that is their fault. Why in the hell is McD or Mangini responsible for motivating these guys to play.

I dont care what day of the week it is, or what you do from monday to saturday. Come sunday, if youre in a uniform, you ARE released to play.

What in the world could stop me from playing hardcore in a game I love?
I love winning. I love scoring. I love contributing. I love being the hero. I love makin the big hit. And I hate making idiotic mistakes that screw it up for everyone.

Like.....OFFSIDES FOUR TIMES A GAME.


Any player who subscribes to Nate Jacksons way of thinking, is a player who only thinks of himself. Hes a ME player.

No headcoach in the league can succeed without the players buying in.

This aint highschool. Its not college. You are now playing for millions of dollars that are coming from an owner who is telling you: DO WHATEVER THE HEADCOACH TELLS YOU.


Sounds to me like at least mangini knows whats being asked of him.

People skills are a plus. But in the professional world, you either produce, or get fired.

Funny how he never mentioned why what mangini was stressing is so important. I mean, why in the world should a player be concerned with knowing all the personel packages of the opposing team?

DUH!

McDaniels has done alot of things to make things fun for the team. But he has also demanded they be prepared.


I have NO PROBLEM with that.



Playing on sundays is reactionary true. But players who are able to understand and calculate quickly are the best there are.:salute:

Screw a Nate Jackson. Hater.(said the hater):D

Ravage!!!
11-12-2010, 08:33 PM
The hilarious thing is that a full 1/2 of the posters in that thread are now regulars here... ah it takes me back!

Dog, Rav, Top, GEM, and me. Pretty damned funny. RNJ?FU... Funny Shit!

HOly crap! I was responding to the guy and don't remember this at all! :shocked:

Watchthemiddle
11-12-2010, 08:33 PM
All of these "other" teams/players threads crack me up. Ravage loves this one, but complains about the Kizla v Cutler one.

flip flop at its best

thanks for playing

Oh, and who is Nate Jackson and what has he ever done except complain??

Ravage!!!
11-12-2010, 08:33 PM
I think McCoy is going to be a damned fine QB.

Dreadnought
11-12-2010, 08:39 PM
Oh, and who is Nate Jackson and what has he ever done except complain??

Just a pretty bright guy and good writer who knows a hell of a lot more than any of us here on the internal workings of an NFL team in general and the Broncos specifically. He also got hurt a lot in his career. It happens. That does not detract from his powers of observation.

Seems to me he nailed it. Mcdaniels and Mangini both share the mentality of Losers, from time immemorial. Rant n' rave. Zero defects. Embarrass your men in front of their peers. Instill fear in your subordinates. Yeah, thats the ticket. Maybe they'll grow out of it, and maybe not. if not...well, there are other careers available to them I guess.

Watchthemiddle
11-12-2010, 08:44 PM
Well he should stick to writting then because he was sub-par, below mediocre at best at football.

More power to him...maybe he can go back to rapping...:laugh:

dogfish
11-12-2010, 09:00 PM
More power to him...maybe he can go back to raping...:laugh:

i hope you meant to say "rapping". . .


:eek:

Nomad
11-12-2010, 09:18 PM
That makes dream almost famous.

True! Poor kid got banned from BM too!! Maybe Tned and the mod team can reinstate him here again!:D

rcsodak
11-12-2010, 11:42 PM
seems he has a pretty good head on his shoulders
Why's that? Cuz he hates McD as ya'll do, or cuz of his big fancy terminology he's using in speaking to football fans? What a freakin' dork. LMAO!

:lol:

KCL
11-13-2010, 12:08 AM
i hope you meant to say "rapping". . .


:eek:

:lol:

Dreadnought
11-13-2010, 12:32 AM
Why's that? Cuz he hates McD as ya'll do, or cuz of his big fancy terminology he's using in speaking to football fans? What a freakin' dork. LMAO!

:lol:

Nate Jackson > Dream. Dream claimed Hillis was a dud, and Moreno a future superstar. That pretty much says it all.

Bosco
11-13-2010, 12:35 AM
Surprising he was able to gleam all that in the 5 minutes he spent on McDaniels' roster before his broke ass got cut.

Northman
11-13-2010, 08:05 AM
The best thing about that thread.

Dream: Banned User

Also seeing Dogfish, Kaylore, Horsepower56, and Ravage all in the same thread. lol

jhildebrand
11-13-2010, 11:38 AM
People can try to dismiss this as a cut player crying.

However, reading the part about players being broken down, losing confidence, and almost scared and all I could think about the entire time is Alphonso. There has to be some truth to what Jackson is saying.

Now that makes me wonder how it might be affecting the play of our other younger players who aren't completely used to NFL life-Moreno, Ayers, McBath, Bruton, etc...

As for Mangini changing and smarting up-DOUBT IT! The changes you are seeing there are a direct result of Holmgren. Mangini is who we think he is! He was that way in NY and that way in Cle. It isn't coincidence we are seeing changes the year Holmgren was brought in. Which is proof of just how effective a real GM can be for a coach. Doesn't matter much anyway. Mangini will be released at season's end.

rationalfan
11-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Why's that? Cuz he hates McD as ya'll do, or cuz of his big fancy terminology he's using in speaking to football fans? What a freakin' dork. LMAO!

:lol:

yeah, stupid to use intelligence when describing football; because we're all illiterate morons who hide in the safety of internet chatboards. (sarcasm, please note it).

spikerman
11-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Surprising he was able to gleam all that in the 5 minutes he spent on McDaniels' roster before his broke ass got cut.

I think there's enough evidence to show that just because McDaniels doesn't want a player doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. In fact, the odds are that the person McD doesn't want probably has more talent than the guy he's going to be replaced with.

GEM
11-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Have any of you heard Nate when he guests on the radio show in Denver. Good LORD, he's got a sexy voice. :drool:

:D

spikerman
11-13-2010, 01:36 PM
Have any of you heard Nate when he guests on the radio show in Denver. Good LORD, he's got a sexy voice. :drool:

:D

And for us guys reading this thread the conversation comes to a screeching halt. :D

KCL
11-13-2010, 01:39 PM
Have any of you heard Nate when he guests on the radio show in Denver. Good LORD, he's got a sexy voice. :drool:

:D

Mmmmm...could you make that the background noise here?

spikerman
11-13-2010, 01:49 PM
Mmmmm...could you make that the background noise here?

sigh. :tsk: :)

Cugel
11-13-2010, 02:01 PM
Just a pretty bright guy and good writer who knows a hell of a lot more than any of us here on the internal workings of an NFL team in general and the Broncos specifically. He also got hurt a lot in his career. It happens. That does not detract from his powers of observation.

Seems to me he nailed it. Mcdaniels and Mangini both share the mentality of Losers, from time immemorial. Rant n' rave. Zero defects. Embarrass your men in front of their peers. Instill fear in your subordinates. Yeah, thats the ticket. Maybe they'll grow out of it, and maybe not. if not...well, there are other careers available to them I guess.

They go back to being ASSISTANT coaches. Which is what is going to happen with McDaniels too. :coffee:

Cugel
11-13-2010, 02:12 PM
I dont give a crap if the players dont like the coach or his style. They are paid to play, and anything short of that is their fault. Why in the hell is McD or Mangini responsible for motivating these guys to play.

I dont care what day of the week it is, or what you do from monday to saturday. Come sunday, if youre in a uniform, you ARE released to play.

Whether you like it or not, players are HUMAN BEINGS who respond better to people who provide a sympathetic supportive environment. That's true no matter how much money they make.

Typical idiot fan reaction: "They're making millions, they should suck it up!" Well, that's just not human nature. Never was, and never will be. You can bitch all you want -- and it's NEVER going to change. Period. :coffee:

Any player good enough to make a impact in the NFL can play for MORE THAN ONE TEAM. And when they're abused and have to sit through endless B.S. and carry stupid notes around they resent it.

And they start calling their agent and asking if there's some way they can get traded to some other team. And even if they're stuck because of their contract, they get depressed and start wishing they could get rid of the coach and get somebody who would treat them with at least SOME respect.

Because Nate's right about one more thing too. NFL players ARE treated like plastic commodities that magically appear on Sundays and then disappear. Only they're really not.

And fans resent them for acting just like THEY would in similar circumstances. NOBODY wants to work for a company that mistreats them. Many do, both in the NFL and out of it.

But, it's human nature to resent it. And in the real world companies flat DON'T get their employees' best efforts if they treat them like replaceable sock puppets in an inhuman dance.

Coaches who know how to motivate their players consistently win over coaches who don't. End of story. :coffee:

Bosco
11-13-2010, 05:54 PM
I think there's enough evidence to show that just because McDaniels doesn't want a player doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. In fact, the odds are that the person McD doesn't want probably has more talent than the guy he's going to be replaced with.

That was definitely the case with Nate Jackson. What's he doing these days anyway?

spikerman
11-13-2010, 06:03 PM
That was definitely the case with Nate Jackson. What's he doing these days anyway?

Not sure. What's Peyton Hillis doing these days?

Even though he's not in the NFL Jackson's stats are still about as impressive as the TEs currently on the Broncos' roster.

Gimpygod
11-13-2010, 07:37 PM
Whether you like it or not, players are HUMAN BEINGS who respond better to people who provide a sympathetic supportive environment. That's true no matter how much money they make.

Typical idiot fan reaction: "They're making millions, they should suck it up!" Well, that's just not human nature. Never was, and never will be. You can bitch all you want -- and it's NEVER going to change. Period. :coffee:

Any player good enough to make a impact in the NFL can play for MORE THAN ONE TEAM. And when they're abused and have to sit through endless B.S. and carry stupid notes around they resent it.

And they start calling their agent and asking if there's some way they can get traded to some other team. And even if they're stuck because of their contract, they get depressed and start wishing they could get rid of the coach and get somebody who would treat them with at least SOME respect.

Because Nate's right about one more thing too. NFL players ARE treated like plastic commodities that magically appear on Sundays and then disappear. Only they're really not.

And fans resent them for acting just like THEY would in similar circumstances. NOBODY wants to work for a company that mistreats them. Many do, both in the NFL and out of it.

But, it's human nature to resent it. And in the real world companies flat DON'T get their employees' best efforts if they treat them like replaceable sock puppets in an inhuman dance.

Coaches who know how to motivate their players consistently win over coaches who don't. End of story. :coffee:

Shit dude, well said!:salute:

BroncoBJ
11-13-2010, 08:46 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=98305&highlight=nate+jackson


:elefant:

:lol: I remember reading that thread. Must have missed that post tho. :lol: Funny stuff. Like the part where he goes " Plus he can rap". Good stuff. I always liked Nate. 1 of few who did. He was just a goofball. Plus was a pretty nice guy. Sucked that he got hurt all the time.

Dreadnought
11-13-2010, 09:14 PM
Not sure. What's Peyton Hillis doing these days?

Even though he's not in the NFL Jackson's stats are still about as impressive as the TEs currently on the Broncos' roster.

Nate Jackson > Richard Quinn

BeefStew25
11-13-2010, 09:56 PM
And for us guys reading this thread the conversation comes to a screeching halt. :D

Speak for yourself homo.