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CoachChaz
08-14-2008, 12:49 PM
32. Atlanta - too many holes to fill though the draft and the schedule doesnt help. 3-13

31. Miami - Picking up outcasts on offense wont do much and their no name defense should keep the O off the field. Unfortunately, it will be their own O. 4-12

30. San Francisco - They did nothing in the off-season to impress me. Expect them to be in the running to draft Stafford, Bradford or Tebow next year. 4-12

29. Kansas City - Did nothing in the off-season, but had a solid draft. Unfortunately, Herm plans on playing the rookies regularly. Cant' be good. 5-11

28. St. Louis - The front office literally voted to decide on drafting Dorsey or Long. The vote was for Dorsey, but VP Devaney ended up drafting Long anyway because he's friends with Howie. Great was to run a struggling team. 5-11

27. Detroit - Nice offense, but speaking of poorly run teams... Jordon Dizon is already listed as a starter and NFC RB's are licking their chops. 6-10

26. Oakland - Improved decondary, but the line couldnt block their owner. 6-10

25. Baltimore - Kyle Boller, Troy Smith and Joe Flacco. Enough said. 6-10

24. Chicago - Grossman to Bennett scares no one. When you take a bad DB that is good on ST and turn him into a WR...you're in trouble. 6-10

23. Denver - Brandon Marshall's suspended. Javon Walker's gone. Matt Lepsis has retired. The offensive tackles are inexperienced. Wiegmann was horrendous with the Chiefs last year. There is still no pass rush. There is still no one who can stop the run. Boss Bailey sucks. Keary Colbert sucks even more. Jamie Winborn sucks more than both combined. Jason Elam is a Falcon. Chris Myers is a Texan.

Is that enough? 7-9

22. NY Jets - Not the worst roster in the world, they just have a bad OC. Brett should help to make this close to a .500 team. 7-9

21. Cincinnati - Rudi Johnson seems cooked and they drafted 1000 WR's and no RB's. They'll abandon the run and look like hell. 7-9

20. Arizona - The team that always dwells in mediocrity no matter what they do. 8-8

19. Carolina - Solid defense, deep O-line. QB that cant stay healthy. 8-8

18. Washington - Campbell is set up to be a stud, but the defense is still too shaky. 8-8

17. Tennessee - Eventually, Tennessee will realize that VY isn't an NFL QB. 8-8

16. Houston - We can always hope Kubes makes the team better...it just never happens. 8-8

15. Minnesota - The scary defense will win some games for this team and AP will get a few more. Still wont be enough. 8-8

14. Buffalo - Great off-season and awesome draft. The Bills could squeeze back into being a playoff team. 9-7

13. Tampa Bay - A great draft and a shaky conference should put them back in the playoffs. 9-7

12. Philadelphia - This ranking could drop, but i still expect to see them package a 1st round pick and Lito Sheppard for Boldin or Ocho Cinco. Putting a big target on this team will help. 9-7

11. Seattle - Not sure who Hassellbeck will throw to, but the defense will keep them in games. 10-6

10. Pittsburgh - Adding Sweed and Mendenhall will help the offense, btu the line needs work and Leftwich is the man if Big Ben goes down. Could be great...could be scary. 10-6

9. Cleveland - Try running on this team. Luck and ignorance give them a great season. 10-6

8. Green Bay - I'm a believer in Rogers. The Pack will have a solid year with him at the controls. 11-5

7. New Orleans - Awesome draft, defensive improvements and a weak schedule. 11 wins should be easy. 11-5

6. Dallas - As much talent as anyone...as long as it doesnt blow up. 11-5

5. Indianapolis - This is the year they lose out on winning the AFC South. 12-4

4. New England - Always going to be at the top, but the defense is getting older by the minute. 12-4

3. San Diego - If Rivers grows up and they have no significant injuries, they'll be as tough as ever. 12-4

2. Jacksonville - Try keeping their defense out of the backfield. Jacksonville takes a step forward. 13-3

1. NY Giants - No significant losses, QB grew up, excellent draft...hard not to put them at the top...at least for now. 13-3

Zweems56
08-14-2008, 12:53 PM
32. Atlanta - too many holes to fill though the draft and the schedule doesnt help. 3-13

31. Miami - Picking up outcasts on offense wont do much and their no name defense should keep the O off the field. Unfortunately, it will be their own O. 4-12

30. San Francisco - They did nothing in the off-season to impress me. Expect them to be in the running to draft Stafford, Bradford or Tebow next year. 4-12

29. Kansas City - Did nothing in the off-season, but had a solid draft. Unfortunately, Herm plans on playing the rookies regularly. Cant' be good. 5-11

28. St. Louis - The front office literally voted to decide on drafting Dorsey or Long. The vote was for Dorsey, but VP Devaney ended up drafting Long anyway because he's friends with Howie. Great was to run a struggling team. 5-11

27. Detroit - Nice offense, but speaking of poorly run teams... Jordon Dizon is already listed as a starter and NFC RB's are licking their chops. 6-10

26. Oakland - Improved decondary, but the line couldnt block their owner. 6-10

25. Baltimore - Kyle Boller, Troy Smith and Joe Flacco. Enough said. 6-10

24. Chicago - Grossman to Bennett scares no one. When you take a bad DB that is good on ST and turn him into a WR...you're in trouble. 6-10

23. NY Jets - Not the worst roster in the world, they just have a bad OC. Brett should help to make this close to a .500 team. 7-9

22. Cincinnati - Rudi Johnson seems cooked and they drafted 1000 WR's and no RB's. They'll abandon the run and look like hell. 7-9

21. Arizona - The team that always dwells in mediocrity no matter what they do. 8-8

20. Carolina - Solid defense, deep O-line. QB that cant stay healthy. 8-8

19. Washington - Campbell is set up to be a stud, but the defense is still too shaky. 8-8

18. Tennessee - Eventually, Tennessee will realize that VY isn't an NFL QB. 8-8

17. Houston - We can always hope Kubes makes the team better...it just never happens. 8-8

16. Minnesota - The scary defense will win some games for this team and AP will get a few more. Still wont be enough. 8-8

15. Buffalo - Great off-season and awesome draft. The Bills could squeeze back into being a playoff team. 9-7

14. Tampa Bay - A great draft and a shaky conference should put them back in the playoffs. 9-7

13. Philadelphia - This ranking could drop, but i still expect to see them package a 1st round pick and Lito Sheppard for Boldin or Ocho Cinco. Putting a big target on this team will help. 9-7

12. Seattle - Not sure who Hassellbeck will throw to, but the defense will keep them in games. 10-6

11. Pittsburgh - Adding Sweed and Mendenhall will help the offense, btu the line needs work and Leftwich is the man if Big Ben goes down. Could be great...could be scary. 10-6

10. Cleveland - Try running on this team. Luck and ignorance give them a great season. 10-6

9. Green Bay - I'm a believer in Rogers. The Pack will have a solid year with him at the controls. 11-5

8. New Orleans - Awesome draft, defensive improvements and a weak schedule. 11 wins should be easy. 11-5

7. Dallas - As much talent as anyone...as long as it doesnt blow up. 11-5

6. Indianapolis - This is the year they lose out on winning the AFC South. 12-4

5. New England - Always going to be at the top, but the defense is getting older by the minute. 12-4

4. San Diego - If Rivers grows up and they have no significant injuries, they'll be as tough as ever. 12-4

3. Jacksonville - Try keeping their defense out of the backfield. Jacksonville takes a step forward. 13-3

2. NY Giants - No significant losses, QB grew up, excellent draft...hard not to put them at the top...at least for now. 13-3

1. Denver - No explanation necessary.
19-0

Edited for accuracy

turftoad
08-14-2008, 12:55 PM
Coach, are these your own rankings?

CoachChaz
08-14-2008, 01:24 PM
Coach, are these your own rankings?

Combination of personal opinion and info from resources.

Northman
08-14-2008, 01:27 PM
So this is all based off last year correct? I mean, we havent played a meaningful game yet.

girler
08-14-2008, 01:30 PM
Well that's depressing.

rcsodak
08-14-2008, 01:39 PM
Well that's depressing.

Well, girler, that's what FICTION can do to you.

What jibberish, chaz.

Since when did losing myers become a bad thing?
Same with Walker?

Funny how a good part of the team hasn't even seen the field yet, in a 'practice' game, and you've already decided they suck.

lmao.

You should write for the Post. *or the NYTimes* :lol:

Zweems56
08-14-2008, 01:43 PM
Well, girler, that's what FICTION can do to you.

What jibberish, chaz.

Since when did losing myers become a bad thing?
Same with Walker?

Funny how a good part of the team hasn't even seen the field yet, in a 'practice' game, and you've already decided they suck.

lmao.

You should write for the Post. *or the NYTimes* :lol:

Could replace burger bill easily enough.

turftoad
08-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Rankings from #12 to #15 are at 9-7.

Rankings from #16 to #21 are 8-8

Rankings from #22 to #23 are 7-9

We could be in there anywhere from #12 to #23 given the fact that two games make that much of a diff.

Not to far off IMO for the Pre Season.

CoachChaz
08-14-2008, 02:33 PM
Well, girler, that's what FICTION can do to you.

What jibberish, chaz.

Since when did losing myers become a bad thing?
Same with Walker?

Funny how a good part of the team hasn't even seen the field yet, in a 'practice' game, and you've already decided they suck.

lmao.

You should write for the Post. *or the NYTimes* :lol:

Do Bailey, McCree, Niko, Robertson and Clady make us much better than we were last year? Does going into the first two games against tough defenses with no running back, an unproven line and Darrell Jackson as our #1 WR bode well for a good start? How about games against NE, Jax, Carolina, SD, etc?...can we expect to win even half of those? I think 7-9 could very well be generous. try getting out of a homer mentality and look at the NFL as a whole.

CoachChaz
08-14-2008, 02:34 PM
So this is all based off last year correct? I mean, we havent played a meaningful game yet.

Last year, off-season improvements, draft quality, etc.

Obviously an accurate ranking cant be done until futher into the season, but that's why I called it a PRE-SEASON ranking.

NightTrainLayne
08-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Coach, other than the fact that you are completely and hopelessly wrong in your predictions, I enjoyed your article.

:D

underrated29
08-14-2008, 02:51 PM
OVERALL nicely done.

Theree are a few things i disagree with, but we are on a broncos site so i will only go over them. And very briefly.


We have always been a top 10 run defense. Always. last year we werent and 90% of that was scheme. I am not saying we will be top 10 again. (although i do expect we will be). I am saying we will be much improved in that department just off of scheme alone.

That right there will more than cover 2 games. So instantly we are a 9-7 team from last year. I would also say that we have a much easier schedule this year than last year. Lets add 1 win for the easy schedule. 10-6.

How many games did we lose last year by 7 pts or less. If memory serves correct there were 3-4 of them. and by 3 pts or less i think there were 3 of them.

I dont see anyway possible unless the (fear of saying it) "schmingery tug" bites us again that we are less than 9 wins. Like i said in another thread 10-6-11-5 more likely.

MOtorboat
08-14-2008, 02:55 PM
OVERALL nicely done.

Theree are a few things i disagree with, but we are on a broncos site so i will only go over them. And very briefly.


We have always been a top 10 run defense. Always. last year we werent and 90% of that was scheme. I am not saying we will be top 10 again. (although i do expect we will be). I am saying we will be much improved in that department just off of scheme alone.

That right there will more than cover 2 games. So instantly we are a 9-7 team from last year. I would also say that we have a much easier schedule this year than last year. Lets add 1 win for the easy schedule. 10-6.

How many games did we lose last year by 7 pts or less. If memory serves correct there were 3-4 of them. and by 3 pts or less i think there were 3 of them.

I dont see anyway possible unless the (fear of saying it) "schmingery tug" bites us again that we are less than 9 wins. Like i said in another thread 10-6-11-5 more likely.

And how many game-winning FGs did Elam have?

That team last year could have easily been 5-11. And other than the progress of Cutler, D.J. Williams and Selvin Young, where is this team decidedly better?

Two first-time starters at tackle, a set of journeymen receivers. Unproven defensive ends, question mark at middle linebacker and both safety positions. Question mark at kicker.

CoachChaz
08-14-2008, 03:10 PM
And how many game-winning FGs did Elam have?

That team last year could have easily been 5-11. And other than the progress of Cutler, D.J. Williams and Selvin Young, where is this team decidedly better?

Two first-time starters at tackle, a set of journeymen receivers. Unproven defensive ends, question mark at middle linebacker and both safety positions. Question mark at kicker.

Question marks everywhere. Who is a reliable WR after BM? Young, Hall, Torain, Pittman? Rookie LT? Proven DL after Robertson? Niko? Boss at WILL? McCree? Special teams?

Sure, they could all pan out and we could win 12 or 13 games...or they could flop and we could lose 12 or 13 games. I found the middle ground at 7-9 until I see proof of anything one way or another.

NightTrainLayne
08-14-2008, 03:13 PM
Question marks everywhere. Who is a reliable WR after BM? Young, Hall, Torain, Pittman? Rookie LT? Proven DL after Robertson? Niko? Boss at WILL? McCree? Special teams?

Sure, they could all pan out and we could win 12 or 13 games...or they could flop and we could lose 12 or 13 games. I found the middle ground at 7-9 until I see proof of anything one way or another.

My comment above was just a joke because everyone was piling on you there.

I tend to agree, that until we see some real evidence that the team overall has improved that we should take a wait-and-see approach.

Heck, we may have even improved, but we aren't in a vacuum. If the teams above us got better as well, or maintained a level above ours we haven't really caught up much anyway.

turftoad
08-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Best case scenerio, we make a wild card push. Worst case, we draft in the top 8.

We are a year or two away from being a contender. We have a very young team (esspecially with Lynch gone):D and have many ? marks to take care of.

I've already come to the mind set of not getting pissed off when we lose games that I think we should win.

If we do better, I'll be on that wagon also. :salute:

CoachChaz
08-14-2008, 03:33 PM
Inexperience will be our downfall...not talent and potential. Not to mention...with Smith and Lynch off the field...who are our veteran leaders and father figures?

MOtorboat
08-14-2008, 03:34 PM
Inexperience will be our downfall...not talent and potential. Not to mention...with Smith and Lynch off the field...who are our veteran leaders and father figures?

Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, D.J. Williams and Jay Cutler.

underrated29
08-14-2008, 04:06 PM
And how many game-winning FGs did Elam have?

That team last year could have easily been 5-11. And other than the progress of Cutler, D.J. Williams and Selvin Young, where is this team decidedly better?

Two first-time starters at tackle, a set of journeymen receivers. Unproven defensive ends, question mark at middle linebacker and both safety positions. Question mark at kicker.



I think elam won 3. But i would have to say only the raiders game is one we got away with. The bills and the other one are normal games. Just like how many superbowls did the pats with with vinateri- who cares. You have a kicker to do just that. Get you some points to put you over the top. Every team has a few games won each year from their kicker. In our case only 1 of them should have been a loss.

Point is- you guys seem to think that we will be the exact same as last year. Yeah we have a shit ton of ? marks at a shit ton of positions, but that doesnt mean we arent better.

We are better simply for the reasons i stated. Weaker schedule, new/better defensive scheme. Improved WR corps. (yeah its not a given) but look at last year-. Marshall and who........... Broken walker who played in 4 games...... Martinez...........come on. Seriously, we got marshall who will be better, djax journeyman or not he has game, royal, rookie or not he is better than martinez hands down. Parker and colbert they suck balls and are heads and shoulders above our last years #2 martinez.

Our LT is better than a hurt, but not healhty lepsis. Any LB is better than gold so we have an upgrade there. Still a ? mark, but an upgrade nonetheless. Saftey is way better also. We have someone who can A. pass protect unlike lynch, and B. a savvy vet who isnt spectacular but wont give up big plays like lynch.

Oh and Jay is healthy and so is .....i dont know 5/5 of our offensive line instead of the 2/5ths we had last year. Thats right 2/5ths of our oline was healthy. So what if we got a rook at RT- he must be doing better than our RT from last year pears......That spells improvement.

Do Not say we have not improved. I can not buy that for a minute. I can understand ? marks and unproven and injury riddled players. But the same record as last year...........

NO FREAKING WAY!

NightTrainLayne
08-14-2008, 04:24 PM
I think elam won 3. But i would have to say only the raiders game is one we got away with. The bills and the other one are normal games. Just like how many superbowls did the pats with with vinateri- who cares. You have a kicker to do just that. Get you some points to put you over the top. Every team has a few games won each year from their kicker. In our case only 1 of them should have been a loss.

Point is- you guys seem to think that we will be the exact same as last year. Yeah we have a shit ton of ? marks at a shit ton of positions, but that doesnt mean we arent better.

We are better simply for the reasons i stated. Weaker schedule, new/better defensive scheme. Improved WR corps. (yeah its not a given) but look at last year-. Marshall and who........... Broken walker who played in 4 games...... Martinez...........come on. Seriously, we got marshall who will be better, djax journeyman or not he has game, royal, rookie or not he is better than martinez hands down. Parker and colbert they suck balls and are heads and shoulders above our last years #2 martinez.

Our LT is better than a hurt, but not healhty lepsis. Any LB is better than gold so we have an upgrade there. Still a ? mark, but an upgrade nonetheless. Saftey is way better also. We have someone who can A. pass protect unlike lynch, and B. a savvy vet who isnt spectacular but wont give up big plays like lynch.

Oh and Jay is healthy and so is .....i dont know 5/5 of our offensive line instead of the 2/5ths we had last year. Thats right 2/5ths of our oline was healthy. So what if we got a rook at RT- he must be doing better than our RT from last year pears......That spells improvement.

Do Not say we have not improved. I can not buy that for a minute. I can understand ? marks and unproven and injury riddled players. But the same record as last year...........

NO FREAKING WAY!

When I played football in High School, my Junior year we lost by 6 points to Scott City who won the State Championship for several years in a row.

We were driving at the end of the game, and we were going to score, but the clock ran out on us before we got there.

We worked all through the off-season with one goal in mind. Beat Scott City and win the State Championship.

Through 10 games we were undefeated, and no-doubt we were a much, much better football team. We improved at virtually every position, and steam-rolled through our schedule setting up a show-down in S.C. both of us sitting on 10 - 0 records.

We lost 55 - 14. We were better, we were much better. But S.C. got better too. . .much better.

How much have the Broncos improved? I don't doubt that we have improved some and are a better team, but have we made up 60 points a seaon vs. San Diego? Did our improvement actually mean we are better than teams that beat us last year, or does it just mean we'll lose by less points?

I don't know the answers to those questions. I hope we've improved enough to come out on top and make the playoffs, but I'm not going to get too excited and over-confident. I'll wait and see.

underrated29
08-14-2008, 04:39 PM
Well said. :salute:

I understand all of that too. I would definitely be on the positive side of things forcasting a 10-6/11-5 record but i wont get too excited either and say more than that.

I just dont think there is anyway we are the same as last year. Alas i guess we can all hope in the end that casino royal shows up in another alter ego and says "I told you so" to all us since he seems to think 14-2 is on our horizon.

King87
08-14-2008, 09:35 PM
Nice article, but the Giants lost Straham. I would argue that he is a pretty big loss.

dogfish
08-15-2008, 03:03 AM
well done, coach-- that looks pretty close to the way i'd rank them. . . kudos for your objectivity regarding the broncos-- people around here may not like it, but i'm afraid that you'll prove to be a lot closer to the truth than most of them. . . it's not that i don't want the team to win of course, but i'm having problems seeing it. . . it's not like we don't have talent, and we could certainly contend for at least a wild card spot if things fall properly, but IMO there are too many holes and too many question marks, too many things that will have to go just right for it to happen. . . i think we're more likely at least a year and a good offseason away. . . i'll be pretty satisfied if we consistently play hard and show progress down the stretch (not getting completely annihilated by the chargers two more times this year would be a nice start, for one thing). . .


the one ranking i really didn't agree with is minnesota. . . i think their defense and running game are starting to look a lot like the '00 vultures-- IMO, jackson will have to be REALLy awful to keep them out of the playoffs. . . i also think carolina has a chance to be pretty damn good IF delhomme can stay healthy, but that's obviously a big if right now. . .

dogfish
08-15-2008, 03:07 AM
Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, D.J. Williams and Jay Cutler.

so in other words, nobody but cutler?

neither bailey nor dj has ever been a vocal leader, and dre's too short. . . . :heh:






(sorry, couldn't resist)




actually, you did miss tom nalen, and possibly mccree. . . .

LordTrychon
08-15-2008, 03:32 AM
When I played football in High School, my Junior year we lost by 6 points to Scott City who won the State Championship for several years in a row.

We were driving at the end of the game, and we were going to score, but the clock ran out on us before we got there.

We worked all through the off-season with one goal in mind. Beat Scott City and win the State Championship.

Through 10 games we were undefeated, and no-doubt we were a much, much better football team. We improved at virtually every position, and steam-rolled through our schedule setting up a show-down in S.C. both of us sitting on 10 - 0 records.

We lost 55 - 14. We were better, we were much better. But S.C. got better too. . .much better.

How much have the Broncos improved? I don't doubt that we have improved some and are a better team, but have we made up 60 points a seaon vs. San Diego? Did our improvement actually mean we are better than teams that beat us last year, or does it just mean we'll lose by less points?

I don't know the answers to those questions. I hope we've improved enough to come out on top and make the playoffs, but I'm not going to get too excited and over-confident. I'll wait and see.

You have a very valid point in saying that getting better doesn't insure that others don't do the same.

However, there are 32 teams in the NFL... and they can't all improve. It's impossible. The laws of averages say that in general (that part is important) things tend to move towards the middle. If you were horrible... the worst... you're likely to get better. If you were great or the best, you're likely to take a step back. I had this conversation with my Fantasy Football partner last year in a bidding league. After the year LT had, people were going to overbid/pay for him... he was going to have a worse year than the year before, but people were going to bid for him like he was going to do better the next year which is next to impossible.

We drafted 12th this year. If we have improved, which I believe we have, will that mean that all of the teams in front of us have stayed stagnant? No. Will some of them improve? Yes. Will some of them regress AS WELL? Yes. Will all of the 20 teams that drafted behind us improve? NO. Absolutely not. If we improve from last year's performance, we WILL MOVE up. It's a given.

dogfish
08-15-2008, 04:02 AM
You have a very valid point in saying that getting better doesn't insure that others don't do the same.

However, there are 32 teams in the NFL... and they can't all improve. It's impossible. The laws of averages say that in general (that part is important) things tend to move towards the middle. If you were horrible... the worst... you're likely to get better. If you were great or the best, you're likely to take a step back. I had this conversation with my Fantasy Football partner last year in a bidding league. After the year LT had, people were going to overbid/pay for him... he was going to have a worse year than the year before, but people were going to bid for him like he was going to do better the next year which is next to impossible.

We drafted 12th this year. If we have improved, which I believe we have, will that mean that all of the teams in front of us have stayed stagnant? No. Will some of them improve? Yes. Will some of them regress AS WELL? Yes. Will all of the 20 teams that drafted behind us improve? NO. Absolutely not. If we improve from last year's performance, we WILL MOVE up. It's a given.


ahh, but what if we improve in some areas and regress in others? what if our god-awful run efense improves to middle of the pack (which is a long way from guaranteed), but prater chokes and we don't get the clutch field goals we did last year? we could be "better" and not win any more games. . .

also, what if the improvements people are counting on don't come until later in the season, when we've already lost five or six games? like last year, we're going to be breaking in an awful lot of new starters-- a new RB, new WR (probably two of them the first two or three games), potentially two new OTs, possibly a new center if nails isn't healthy, and a guard that didn't play all of last year. . . not to mention a new DT, one if not two new LBs (and either one or two in different spots than they played last year), and at least one new safety. . . throw in a new defensive scheme as well, and different offensive and defensive coordinators than last year. . .

i just don't see how we're going to be a cohesive unit right out of the gate. . . and we're going to be counting on either rookies or first-time starters at running back, #2 WR, the crucial left tackle spot, and possibly right tackle as well. . . are those guys all really going to be ready to come in and play at a consistently high level right away?

i'll tell you one thing. . . if the run efense doesn't improve noticeably, i HIGHLY doubt we win any more games than we did last year! and IMO, it's very much up in the air ATM. . . maybe robertson will help, but his knee will have to hold up. . . i do expect marcus thomas to be better this year, but i'm afraid the rest of the line is pretty questionable-- ekuban's coming off a serious injury, moss is basically an unknown, and crowder is currently running with the third stringers. . . and the LB situation is scary, if you ask me. . . webster is terrible, and he looks like the starter at the important MIKE position. . . boss has been inconsistent throughout his career, and is already hurt, and winborn is a journeyman, competent at best. . . woodyard could be an asset, but where does he fit in if dj stays at WILL? sorry, but with the personnel we have in the front seven, i'm a long way from convinced that a new scheme will make a significant enough improvement to win us more games. . . i'm afraid we'll have to blitz a LOT to slow the run or generate any real pressure on opposing QBs. . .

i know that anything can happen, and of course i'm waiting to see like everyone else. . . but i won't be at all surprised if JR is right, and the first half of the season isn't pretty. . . .

King87
08-15-2008, 05:35 AM
well done, coach-- that looks pretty close to the way i'd rank them. . . kudos for your objectivity regarding the broncos-- people around here may not like it, but i'm afraid that you'll prove to be a lot closer to the truth than most of them. . . it's not that i don't want the team to win of course, but i'm having problems seeing it. . . it's not like we don't have talent, and we could certainly contend for at least a wild card spot if things fall properly, but IMO there are too many holes and too many question marks, too many things that will have to go just right for it to happen. . . i think we're more likely at least a year and a good offseason away. . . i'll be pretty satisfied if we consistently play hard and show progress down the stretch (not getting completely annihilated by the chargers two more times this year would be a nice start, for one thing). . .


the one ranking i really didn't agree with is minnesota. . . i think their defense and running game are starting to look a lot like the '00 vultures-- IMO, jackson will have to be REALLy awful to keep them out of the playoffs. . . i also think carolina has a chance to be pretty damn good IF delhomme can stay healthy, but that's obviously a big if right now. . .

Minnesota is nothing but unearned hype. They look great on paper statistically. But they were 27th in passing defense, which explains why they were so good at run defense. Why bother to run the ball when you can just shred their secondary?

Their big secondary upgrade is a safety that is just purely overrated in Madieu Williams. And I know that from first hand knowledge. I have seen Williams lose games by himself time after time as a Bengal safety. Sure, he is going to occasionally make a great stop, or a great INT/defended pass. But you know what else he is going to do with far greater frequency? Miss tackles in the open field, blow coverage, free lance, and whiff on INTs.

Their QB is not very good. Their WR corps is lackluster. And their entire season hinges upon the health of a guy who is kind of injury prone and inconsistent. I love Adrian Peterson as a player. He goes all out and never quits. But he never runs out of bounds to avoid a huge hit at the great gain of a whole two yards. His style of play is going to get him killed. He will be the Donovan McNabb of running backs.

They will NOT make it to the playoffs as a division winner. They do not stack up to the Packers at all. I doubt that they will make it as a wild card team. The NFC East is almost guaranteed to put two teams into the playoffs this year.

dogfish
08-15-2008, 06:10 AM
Minnesota is nothing but unearned hype. They look great on paper statistically. But they were 27th in passing defense, which explains why they were so good at run defense. Why bother to run the ball when you can just shred their secondary?

nope-- kevin and pat williams, with a fast, athletic LB corps behind them, explains why they were tops in run defense. . . they didn't give up a paltry 3.1 YPC because teams preferred to throw on them. . .


Their big secondary upgrade is a safety that is just purely overrated in Madieu Williams. And I know that from first hand knowledge. I have seen Williams lose games by himself time after time as a Bengal safety. Sure, he is going to occasionally make a great stop, or a great INT/defended pass. But you know what else he is going to do with far greater frequency? Miss tackles in the open field, blow coverage, free lance, and whiff on INTs.

go deeper. . . williams may have been hit and miss with the bengals, but schematically he is a perfect fit for the cover-2 that the vikes run. . . cover-2 simply doesn't work without safeties that can't cover deep down the field, and the lack of them was the reason that minnesota's pass defense was poor last year. . . and williams wasn't their only upgrade, either-- their top draft pick, tyrell thomas, is an athletic beast who looks like he was born to man the deep halves in the cover-2. . .

but neither of those guys is the real upgrade to their pass defense. . . their scheme relies almost exclusively on the front four to provide a pass rush, and they fell flat last year (so much so that leslie frasier had to mutate the scheme with a bunch of blitz packages). . . however, they went out during the offseason and added the best edge rusher in the league. . . you honestly think that jared allen isn't a huge boost to their pass defense?? come on now. . . .


Their QB is not very good. Their WR corps is lackluster. And their entire season hinges upon the health of a guy who is kind of injury prone and inconsistent. I love Adrian Peterson as a player. He goes all out and never quits. But he never runs out of bounds to avoid a huge hit at the great gain of a whole two yards. His style of play is going to get him killed. He will be the Donovan McNabb of running backs.

don't forget that chester taylor ran for 1,200+ yards in '06. . . with a rugged offensive line, he is more than capable of filling in if AD gets hurt. . . and even if jackson can't hit him every time, bernard berrian adds a legitimate deep threat that they just didn't have last year. . . if defenses don't respect him, he's going to make some big plays, even with an inconsistent quarterback-- and if they do respect him, it opens up more running lanes for AD and taylor to exploit. . .


They will NOT make it to the playoffs as a division winner. They do not stack up to the Packers at all. I doubt that they will make it as a wild card team. The NFC East is almost guaranteed to put two teams into the playoffs this year.

hmmm. . . . we'll see about all that. . . the pack needs to get their defensive line healthy and on the field if they expect to hold off the vikes, because they're not stoppin' anybody's running game with curly and moe at DT-- especially not minnesota's!

King87
08-15-2008, 06:22 AM
nope-- kevin and pat williams, with a fast, athletic LB corps behind them, explains why they were tops in run defense. . . they didn't give up a paltry 3.1 YPC because teams preferred to throw on them. . .



go deeper. . . williams may have been hit and miss with the bengals, but schematically he is a perfect fit for the cover-2 that the vikes run. . . cover-2 simply doesn't work without safeties that can't cover deep down the field, and the lack of them was the reason that minnesota's pass defense was poor last year. . . and williams wasn't their only upgrade, either-- their top draft pick, tyrell thomas, is an athletic beast who looks like he was born to man the deep halves in the cover-2. . .

but neither of those guys is the real upgrade to their pass defense. . . their scheme relies almost exclusively on the front four to provide a pass rush, and they fell flat last year (so much so that leslie frasier had to mutate the scheme with a bunch of blitz packages). . . however, they went out during the offseason and added the best edge rusher in the league. . . you honestly think that jared allen isn't a huge boost to their pass defense?? come on now. . . .



don't forget that chester taylor ran for 1,200+ yards in '06. . . with a rugged offensive line, he is more than capable of filling in if AD gets hurt. . . and even if jackson can't hit him every time, bernard berrian adds a legitimate deep threat that they just didn't have last year. . . if defenses don't respect him, he's going to make some big plays, even with an inconsistent quarterback-- and if they do respect him, it opens up more running lanes for AD and taylor to exploit. . .



hmmm. . . . we'll see about all that. . . the pack needs to get their defensive line healthy and on the field if they expect to hold off the vikes, because they're not stoppin' anybody's running game with curly and moe at DT-- especially not minnesota's!


I disagree still. Look how much worse they were at pass defense than rushing defense. The NFL ranks by yards per game as far as the defense goes. I am not saying that they suck, but I am saying that if they are good at rush defense, and they suck at pass defense you're going to be passing on them.

Dog I have watch Williams play since he was a rookie. Playing in the perfect scheme doesn't help you become a good open field tackler. It does not make you play in the right spot and not freelance. You can lead a horse to water IMO my friend.

Chester Taylor is a fine RB, but he certainly does not fit the bill for replacing what the Vikings NEED Peterson to be. He is by far their most important player. By leaps and bounds.

Jared Allen was a huge boost to their team. But guys have gone from one team to another and then just sort of leveled out. I doubt this is the case, with him to be honest.

The Packers need to fix their DT need. The Vikings need a QB, new CB's, and some WR's who are more consistent.

I would be willing to make a friendly sig bet with you about who wins the NFC North.

If the Pack wins, I get to put a sentence or two in your signature, and it will be within the COC and won't be anything terribly insulting.

If the Vikings win you may do the same, or have someone make me a sig.

If by some strange miracle the Bears or Lions win the division, it's a wash.

topscribe
08-15-2008, 09:49 AM
so in other words, nobody but cutler?

neither bailey nor dj has ever been a vocal leader, and dre's too short. . . . :heh:






(sorry, couldn't resist)




actually, you did miss tom nalen, and possibly mccree. . . .

Definitely McCree. From what I have read and heard, McCree is very vocal,
and the exact words I've read about him out of camp: "He can play." He
is a wily veteran who knows what a good defense is, and his peeps most
likely already know that.

On the offensive side of the ball, it appears Cutler is shaping up as one hell
of a leader.

I don't think there will be many problems in that area.

-----

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 10:15 AM
Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, D.J. Williams and Jay Cutler.

This is assuming anyone in the defensive side of the ball step up in that capacity. None have ever been in that position before.

Maybe Jay does on the offensive side, but a 3rd year QB still has his leadership limitations. Just my opinion

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 10:22 AM
Nice article, but the Giants lost Straham. I would argue that he is a pretty big loss.

Strahan is a leadership loss, but that only allows Tuck to be on the field more. Between him, Unemyiora and Kwiw...they still have a pretty damn solid set of DE's. I don't think losing Strahan knocks them backward at all.

Add Johnathan Goff and Brian Kehl to the LB corps and Kenny Phillips at safety and the defense is better than it was a year ago. Adding Manningham to Eli's arsenal doesnt hurt either.

GEM
08-15-2008, 10:25 AM
Strahan is a leadership loss, but that only allows Tuck to be on the field more. Between him, Unemyiora and Kwiw...they still have a pretty damn solid set of DE's. I don't think losing Strahan knocks them backward at all.

Add Johnathan Goff and Brian Kehl to the LB corps and Kenny Phillips at safety and the defense is better than it was a year ago. Adding Manningham to Eli's arsenal doesnt hurt either.

Have to agree with you on the loss of Strahan. Any other team and they would really feel it. The Giants are stacked with solid talent on the DL. I don't see them missing a step there.

turftoad
08-15-2008, 10:30 AM
Strahan is a leadership loss, but that only allows Tuck to be on the field more. Between him, Unemyiora and Kwiw...they still have a pretty damn solid set of DE's. I don't think losing Strahan knocks them backward at all.

Add Johnathan Goff and Brian Kehl to the LB corps and Kenny Phillips at safety and the defense is better than it was a year ago. Adding Manningham to Eli's arsenal doesnt hurt either.

Tuck is going to be a beast. I was hoping when he came out that we would have drafted him.

Watch and see.

King87
08-15-2008, 10:31 AM
Strahan is a leadership loss, but that only allows Tuck to be on the field more. Between him, Unemyiora and Kwiw...they still have a pretty damn solid set of DE's. I don't think losing Strahan knocks them backward at all.

Add Johnathan Goff and Brian Kehl to the LB corps and Kenny Phillips at safety and the defense is better than it was a year ago. Adding Manningham to Eli's arsenal doesnt hurt either.

That's a fair analysis. I guess I still think the old man could still rack up 8 or so sacks.

Boggles my mind that they can find a plethora of pass rushers and my team can't find one.

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 10:46 AM
That's a fair analysis. I guess I still think the old man could still rack up 8 or so sacks.

Boggles my mind that they can find a plethora of pass rushers and my team can't find one.

A good friend of mine is a scout for the Giants. It was his ring I was wearing when I posted the pics of me wearing a SB ring. Anyway...I keep trying to get him to apply for a job with Denver.

King87
08-15-2008, 10:48 AM
A good friend of mine is a scout for the Giants. It was his ring I was wearing when I posted the pics of me wearing a SB ring. Anyway...I keep trying to get him to apply for a job with Denver.

Make him apply for Cincy. Our scouting sucks and is understaffed. Mike Brown spends the least amount of money on scouting compared to the rest of the leag........................

Nevermind, don't tell him to do that.

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 10:55 AM
Well, my friends family is in a pretty decent situation. He scouts for the Giants and his brother-in-law is TJ Rushing...the return specialist for Indy. Between them, they have the last 2 rings. I doubt either of them want anything to do with Denver or Cincy right now.

King87
08-15-2008, 10:58 AM
Well, my friends family is in a pretty decent situation. He scouts for the Giants and his brother-in-law is TJ Rushing...the return specialist for Indy. Between them, they have the last 2 rings. I doubt either of them want anything to do with Denver or Cincy right now.

How does one even do that? I assume you play in college/the NFL and then what?

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 11:08 AM
How does one even do that? I assume you play in college/the NFL and then what?

NFL scouting? Usually it's working through coaching or team administration. He use to do it for a high school service like I did and he just kept at it and eventually got hired on by the Giants.

LordTrychon
08-15-2008, 01:07 PM
ahh, but what if we improve in some areas and regress in others? what if our god-awful run efense improves to middle of the pack (which is a long way from guaranteed), but prater chokes and we don't get the clutch field goals we did last year? we could be "better" and not win any more games. . .

also, what if the improvements people are counting on don't come until later in the season, when we've already lost five or six games? like last year, we're going to be breaking in an awful lot of new starters-- a new RB, new WR (probably two of them the first two or three games), potentially two new OTs, possibly a new center if nails isn't healthy, and a guard that didn't play all of last year. . . not to mention a new DT, one if not two new LBs (and either one or two in different spots than they played last year), and at least one new safety. . . throw in a new defensive scheme as well, and different offensive and defensive coordinators than last year. . .

i just don't see how we're going to be a cohesive unit right out of the gate. . . and we're going to be counting on either rookies or first-time starters at running back, #2 WR, the crucial left tackle spot, and possibly right tackle as well. . . are those guys all really going to be ready to come in and play at a consistently high level right away?

i'll tell you one thing. . . if the run efense doesn't improve noticeably, i HIGHLY doubt we win any more games than we did last year! and IMO, it's very much up in the air ATM. . . maybe robertson will help, but his knee will have to hold up. . . i do expect marcus thomas to be better this year, but i'm afraid the rest of the line is pretty questionable-- ekuban's coming off a serious injury, moss is basically an unknown, and crowder is currently running with the third stringers. . . and the LB situation is scary, if you ask me. . . webster is terrible, and he looks like the starter at the important MIKE position. . . boss has been inconsistent throughout his career, and is already hurt, and winborn is a journeyman, competent at best. . . woodyard could be an asset, but where does he fit in if dj stays at WILL? sorry, but with the personnel we have in the front seven, i'm a long way from convinced that a new scheme will make a significant enough improvement to win us more games. . . i'm afraid we'll have to blitz a LOT to slow the run or generate any real pressure on opposing QBs. . .

i know that anything can happen, and of course i'm waiting to see like everyone else. . . but i won't be at all surprised if JR is right, and the first half of the season isn't pretty. . . .


You're more than allowed to be pessimistic, Dogfish... that's not what my post was addressing. I was simply responding to the idea that we've gotten better... but that doesn't matter because so has everyone else. That's just simply not the way the world works.

There are 32 teams in the league. Some will move forward, some will move backword.

Chances are greater that you will move forward if you were in the bottom 16 than if you were in the top 16.

That's all.

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 01:28 PM
You're more than allowed to be pessimistic, Dogfish... that's not what my post was addressing. I was simply responding to the idea that we've gotten better... but that doesn't matter because so has everyone else. That's just simply not the way the world works.

There are 32 teams in the league. Some will move forward, some will move backword.

Chances are greater that you will move forward if you were in the bottom 16 than if you were in the top 16.

That's all.

One would hope a team would move forward, but there are always exceptions. If all of Denver's post season acquisitions pan out, then we'll move forward. If they bust, we'll move backward. My prediction of another 7-9 season is based on the assumption that some will pan out, others wont. I personally just don't see enough of an improvement to get excited about going from 7-9 to 12-4. Niko, Robertson, McCree, Wiegmann, Bailey. These just arent the types of players that make drastic impacts...if any at all.

NightTrainLayne
08-15-2008, 01:31 PM
You're more than allowed to be pessimistic, Dogfish... that's not what my post was addressing. I was simply responding to the idea that we've gotten better... but that doesn't matter because so has everyone else. That's just simply not the way the world works.

There are 32 teams in the league. Some will move forward, some will move backword.

Chances are greater that you will move forward if you were in the bottom 16 than if you were in the top 16.

That's all.

You are right LT. I tried to say in my post that we just don't know yet how much we've moved forward, and whether or not we moved forward enough when compared to the playoff teams which is all that really matters.

We just won't know until we see a few games.

However, we are improving and that means we're on the right track, we just need to keep plugging away at it.

LordTrychon
08-15-2008, 01:43 PM
One would hope a team would move forward, but there are always exceptions. If all of Denver's post season acquisitions pan out, then we'll move forward. If they bust, we'll move backward. My prediction of another 7-9 season is based on the assumption that some will pan out, others wont. I personally just don't see enough of an improvement to get excited about going from 7-9 to 12-4. Niko, Robertson, McCree, Wiegmann, Bailey. These just arent the types of players that make drastic impacts...if any at all.

I'd like to see us lose fewer players to injury this year. If we do, I'd have to say we have a better chance from that alone to improve from 7-9.


You are right LT. I tried to say in my post that we just don't know yet how much we've moved forward, and whether or not we moved forward enough when compared to the playoff teams which is all that really matters.

We just won't know until we see a few games.

However, we are improving and that means we're on the right track, we just need to keep plugging away at it.

Agreed. :beer:

And arguing whether we improved enough compared to playoff teams is completely different as well... but the same truth is still there... of that group, some will fall out of the playoffs and others will jump in. So really... did we improve more than the others trying to move in?

underrated29
08-15-2008, 02:20 PM
My prediction of another 7-9 season is based on the assumption that some will pan out, others wont. I personally just don't see enough of an improvement to get excited about going from 7-9 to 12-4. Niko, Robertson, McCree, Wiegmann, Bailey. These just arent the types of players that make drastic impacts...if any at all.



I will continue to remain optomistic about them but i do agree here. But going back to my original points we will be improved not from these players but from the new/old defensive scheme, and health. Those two factors alone will IMO increase our wins this year by atleast 2, i think 3.

the personal though, as you stated might not help out much.

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 02:46 PM
Like anyone, I too hope they run the table...but I have to be a realist. Boss was nothing in Detroit and always injured. McCree is average. Niko is unproven. An average Jets team was desperate to dump Robertson. Jackson has become a journeyman. Wiegman sucked in KC. We have ZERO running game and unproven tackles.

I just don't see anything to get overly excited about.

turftoad
08-15-2008, 03:00 PM
Like anyone, I too hope they run the table...but I have to be a realist. Boss was nothing in Detroit and always injured. McCree is average. Niko is unproven. An average Jets team was desperate to dump Robertson. Jackson has become a journeyman. Wiegman sucked in KC. We have ZERO running game and unproven tackles.

I just don't see anything to get overly excited about.

What about Colbert Coach, you forgot about what a great signing that was. :tsk:

CoachChaz
08-15-2008, 03:27 PM
What about Colbert Coach, you forgot about what a great signing that was. :tsk:

I intentionally left him out for obvious reasons.

turftoad
08-15-2008, 03:40 PM
I intentionally left him out for obvious reasons.

Like......... he probably won't make the team?

Or...... he'll be gone when Marshall comes back?

It still pisses me off that we could have had Bryant Johnson, shit, for less money.

dogfish
08-15-2008, 04:31 PM
I intentionally left him out for obvious reasons.


that hurts, coach. . . .

MOtorboat
08-15-2008, 05:37 PM
that hurts, coach. . . .

Are you his cousin?

slim
08-15-2008, 09:00 PM
The thing that sucks the most about this is Coach knows what he is talking about (this has been proven time and again).

I hate you Coach.

omac
08-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Nice article, but I disagree with some of the rankings, specially at the top.

NE still has the best QB, WR, and WR corps in the league; they have arguably the best coach in the NFL; excellent OL, very solid RBs and TE, and very good defense. Then they play in one of the weakest divisions ... in their 6 divisional games, they're the heavy favorite to win all 6 ... they lose at most 1, and that's a huge upset already. Then they play KC, SF, St. Louis, Oakland, which they should win. That's 10 games there. They're favored to win against Denver (suspect run D), Pittsburgh (suspect OL), Seattle (suspect RB), and Arizona (getting good, but not that good yet). That's 14 games. The only real powerhouses they'll face are SD and Indy.

After losing a close superbowl and their history season getting tarnished, they will play with a vengeance. They'll probably also run the ball more, not trying to set offensive records, but securing the sure wins.

NE is the best team in the NFL, and they've been extremely consistent.

The Giants lost Strahan and Shockey, and they play in a tough division with Dallas, Philly, and Washington. They'll also face Seattle, Pittsburgh, Minnesotta, and Carolina. Those are 10 games with solid teams that they can easily go 5-5 with. Also, don't most superbowl teams take a bit of a dip the next season? I really disagree with ranking them #1; top 5 or 6 more likely.

Jacksonville shouldn't even be in the top 5. They have no true #1 receiver ... Jerry Porter? This team did not get much better, but the Texans have, in the form of even more experience for Williams and Okoye, and health for Schaub and Johnson. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Jaguars split with the Texans. They play a tough division, plus they play Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Minnesotta, and GB. That's 10 tough games they can go 5-5 with. No way are they #2.

CoachChaz
08-18-2008, 08:47 AM
Like......... he probably won't make the team?

Or...... he'll be gone when Marshall comes back?

It still pisses me off that we could have had Bryant Johnson, shit, for less money.

Dont be too pissed. The hype of Johnson was way too high. Not that he isnt a better option than Colbert, but he definately wasnt worth the money. He had his share of opportunities to step up when Boldin and Fitzgerald went down and in my opinion...he never did.

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