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MrFatJackisBack
11-09-2010, 04:12 AM
What did McD see in Quinn? Just another great Shanny player gettin the boot. who's next?:confused:

Timmy!
11-09-2010, 04:45 AM
Hey look, another Hillis thread. yay!

CrazyHorse
11-09-2010, 04:51 AM
Quinn knew the system and Hillis was lazy and dumb.

Dirk
11-09-2010, 05:50 AM
Get Quinn or keep Chris Simms. Quinn>Simms

sneakers
11-09-2010, 05:52 AM
http://images2.memegenerator.net/Alpha-Boyfriend/ImageMacro/3561468/Lets-start-a-new-hillis-thread.jpg

broncofaninfla
11-09-2010, 06:14 AM
As long as Hillis shines in Cleveland and Mcd/Xanders/Ellis Denver Broncos suck, especially at running the ball, you can expect Hillis threads and rightfully so. Denver got raped in this trade. Hillis is helping Cleveland win while Quinn is listed third on the depth chart and Denver STILL owes Cleveland a draft pick. It's unforgivable ignorance.

Nomad
11-09-2010, 06:28 AM
Hey look, another Hillis thread. yay!

I'm sure this will be made into a thread as well...........http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_16560347?source=rss



I liked Hillis/wish he was still a BRONCO and this was a bad move by McDaniels, but he's a Brown now so:coffee:!! Whining surely won't bring him back as well!!

HORSEPOWER 56
11-09-2010, 08:09 AM
I'm sure this will be made into a thread as well...........http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_16560347?source=rss



I liked Hillis/wish he was still a BRONCO and this was a bad move by McDaniels, but he's a Brown now so:coffee:!! Whining surely won't bring him back as well!!

Whining surely won't help the Broncos win games, either but NOBODY likes to lose and whining is one of the things message boards are for, after all.

The Glue Factory
11-09-2010, 11:12 AM
As long as Hillis shines in Cleveland and Mcd/Xanders/Ellis Denver Broncos suck, especially at running the ball, you can expect Hillis threads and rightfully so. Denver got raped in this trade. Hillis is helping Cleveland win while Quinn is listed third on the depth chart and Denver STILL owes Cleveland a draft pick. It's unforgivable ignorance.

And hindsight is 20/20. Remember that trade happened before the draft (i.e. no Tebow on the team yet) and our backup was the miserable Simms. Yes, Cleveland ended up with a very good RB but to say they raped the Broncos in the trade is just plain ignorance.

Had Tebow been already on the team and the Broncos made that trade, then I'd be more inclined to agree. But don't forget history. As I recall many said it was a good trade and many (like myself) wondered what the heck but it means we get rid of Simms as a back up thus net gain in the trade. Nobody said we were raped at the time.

rcsodak
11-09-2010, 11:22 AM
As long as Hillis shines in Cleveland and Mcd/Xanders/Ellis Denver Broncos suck, especially at running the ball, you can expect Hillis threads and rightfully so. Denver got raped in this trade. Hillis is helping Cleveland win while Quinn is listed third on the depth chart and Denver STILL owes Cleveland a draft pick. It's unforgivable ignorance.

PH runs THRU holes....he'd suck if he was still in denver. I'm happy for him. Maybe denver can trade champ for him after the Oline starts being successful.
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rcsodak
11-09-2010, 11:30 AM
And hindsight is 20/20. Remember that trade happened before the draft (i.e. no Tebow on the team yet) and our backup was the miserable Simms. Yes, Cleveland ended up with a very good RB but to say they raped the Broncos in the trade is just plain ignorance.

Had Tebow been already on the team and the Broncos made that trade, then I'd be more inclined to agree. But don't forget history. As I recall many said it was a good trade and many (like myself) wondered what the heck but it means we get rid of Simms as a back up thus net gain in the trade. Nobody said we were raped at the time.
yup. Gotsta luv those history revisionists. Almost makes a person want to delve into some old threads..... Lol
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broncofaninfla
11-09-2010, 11:48 AM
waaaaaa. You still cry about that bully in elementary stealing your sack lunch? :lol:

time to move on......

PH runs THRU holes....he'd suck if he was still in denver. I'm happy for him. Maybe denver can trade champ for him after the Oline starts being successful.
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It's hard to move on when Denver is still losing and the reason why is still coaching. Ignorance must really be a bliss, I want Denver to win and we won't with the decisions Mcd/Xanders/Ellis are making.

BTW it isn't just Broncos fans questioning the trade, a majority of the people who follow football and actually watch the games week in and out are too. The Hillis mistake is just one of many from the three headed idiots running this team into the ground. The Hillis mistake stands to get more attention as Hillis continues to shine.

broncofaninfla
11-09-2010, 11:53 AM
whining is for losers.
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Apparently Mcd, Xanders and Ellis are whiners then because Denver is losing and they are calling the shots.

jhildebrand
11-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Get Quinn or keep Chris Simms. Quinn>Simms

Or keep Brandstater, who you traded up for the year earlier!

Brandstater>Quinn>Simms

arapaho2
11-09-2010, 11:58 AM
waaaaaa. You still cry about that bully in elementary stealing your sack lunch? :lol:

time to move on......

PH runs THRU holes....he'd suck if he was still in denver. I'm happy for him. Maybe denver can trade champ for him after the Oline starts being successful.
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hillis runs through holes moreno would miss....hillis runs through breezes that would drop moreno...hillis runs through the line ...when there isnt a hole, moreno...not so much, if ever...when hillis gets to the 2nd level...he has the speed to go all the way...moreno...nope...hillis can run over, around or through a tackler...moreno...:lol:

hillis plays smash mouth, run over, through, dragging a tackler, punishing football

moreno plays touch football


face it josh shit the bed on the trade

jhildebrand
11-09-2010, 12:01 PM
I like how this situation is deflected by the homers and mcd apologists as whining or simply get over it.

First of all, the trade happened this past off season. All trades are monitored and evaluated the season of the trade. Or have you guys not forgotten how much shit you talked about Cutler throwing picks and Orton being way better? :confused: See, there is the double standard! Of course we can RAVE about Orton 2 seasons later but we must lockdown on Hillis 8 games into the trade :lol:

The idea Hillis has huge holes or lanes is simply absurd. Watch the damn games. 2/3rds of the guy's yards are the result of second effort and dragging three players with him. Again poor deflection.

Saying the Broncos HAD TO HAVE a new backup is silly. Simms was responsible for one game last season. O-N-E! Yet the running game was a problem ALL season long.

Common sense says value the runner you have on your team and rotate him with Moreno and Buck and let Brandstater be your back up or draft Tebow.

BORDERLINE
11-09-2010, 12:04 PM
McD wasn't going to use Hillis point blank. Better that he at least got a 3rd string Q.B who might be our back-up next year then to trade him for a sack of peanuts. I hated this move but it's obvious McD hated the guy. So I believe in good karma instead of making Hillis sit on the bench and waste his talent in Denver. McD did him a favor sending him to Cleveland. Sure we look ultra stupid by doing that but at least people in Denver aren't calling for Hillis to start since he is not on the team anymore.

arapaho2
11-09-2010, 12:07 PM
specially when brandstater proved just as capable as quinn at holding a clipboard

arapaho2
11-09-2010, 12:11 PM
McD wasn't going to use Hillis point blank. Better that he at least got a 3rd string Q.B who might be our back-up next year then to trade him for a sack of peanuts. I hated this move but it's obvious McD hated the guy. So I believe in good karma instead of making Hillis sit on the bench and waste his talent in Denver. McD did him a favor sending him to Cleveland. Sure we look ultra stupid by doing that but at least people in Denver aren't calling for Hillis to start since he is not on the team anymore.


thats the bitter issue...hillis was better than any back we have and has been proveing it all season

at some point bowlen must realize some of the things josh does isnt for the betterment of the team...its to remove any doubt about joshes decisions

jhildebrand
11-09-2010, 12:11 PM
McD wasn't going to use Hillis point blank. Better that he at least got a 3rd string Q.B who might be our back-up next year then to trade him for a sack of peanuts. I hated this move but it's obvious McD hated the guy. So I believe in good karma instead of making Hillis sit on the bench and waste his talent in Denver. McD did him a favor sending him to Cleveland. Sure we look ultra stupid by doing that but at least people in Denver aren't calling for Hillis to start since he is not on the team anymore.

But then that speaks to PISS POOR roster management on McD's part. I bet we have more draft picks tied up on QB's than any other team in the league.

We didn't need Quinn we had Brandstater who McD traded up for. Judging by Brandstaters last offseason here and Quinn's here this season, Brandstater would be a better fit.

We have 4 picks in Tebow, one in Orton, at least 2 in Brandstater, and 1 or 2 in Quinn! That's at least 8 draft picks on the QB position when Ortonstarted in 15 games last season. Just looks silly to me!

That isn't even mentioning McD's ability to evaluate talent. So far he is showing he can't.

Finally, if he weren't going to use Hillis howcome we have seen Larsen used identically to Hillis very recently? :confused:

BORDERLINE
11-09-2010, 12:19 PM
Finally, if he weren't going to use Hillis howcome we have seen Larsen used identically to Hillis very recently? :confused:

I don't know what goes on inside Broncos Headquarters, I just believe McD hated this guy for what ever reason (maybe he tried to hit on his wife) I don't know. But it was clear McD wasn't going to use him and he did Hillis a favor by sending him to the Browns. Peyton was my favorite player and I was about a paycheck away from getting his jersey. And in no way am i defending McD's pin-head move. I just look at the positives. That's good karma and I hope it comes to denver sooner than later.

jhildebrand
11-09-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't know what goes on inside Broncos Headquarters, I just believe McD hated this guy for what ever reason (maybe he tried to hit on his wife) I don't know. But it was clear McD wasn't going to use him and he did Hillis a favor by sending him to the Browns. Peyton was my favorite player and I was about a paycheck away from getting his jersey. And in no way am i defending McD's pin-head move. I just look at the positives. That's good karma and I hope it comes to denver sooner than later.

Gotcha :salute:

BroncoStud
11-09-2010, 12:34 PM
What did McD see in Quinn? Just another great Shanny player gettin the boot. who's next?:confused:

A LOT of us fans were very happy when we got Quinn. He seemed to have a lot of potential.

arapaho2
11-09-2010, 01:08 PM
A LOT of us fans were very happy when we got Quinn. He seemed to have a lot of potential.


just hard to see all that "potential" while our run game sucks at epic levels and hillis is tearing it up

Lonestar
11-09-2010, 01:10 PM
And hindsight is 20/20. Remember that trade happened before the draft (i.e. no Tebow on the team yet) and our backup was the miserable Simms. Yes, Cleveland ended up with a very good RB but to say they raped the Broncos in the trade is just plain ignorance.

Had Tebow been already on the team and the Broncos made that trade, then I'd be more inclined to agree. But don't forget history. As I recall many said it was a good trade and many (like myself) wondered what the heck but it means we get rid of Simms as a back up thus net gain in the trade. Nobody said we were raped at the time.

Good post let me add.

Getting Tebow was a stroke of genius in the way Josh manlipulated the draft.

But what were the odds of getting him and were we even interested in him when Josh made what almost eveyone one here thought was a damned good thread. Josh got the one OTHER QB that he tired hard to get last year when trading mcwhinny but cle was not interested at the time.almost NO ONE whined about it at the time the only ones that were vocal were those that hated Josh or quinn to start with.

Only when hillis blossomed after their starting RB got injured did the boo birds come out in force.

Hind sight is always 20-20.

Was it a good trade? As much as I like hillis I don't think even he could make the difference behind this banged up oline. Where team work and trusting the guy next to do do their job is imparative. For that matter KNOWING what he will do in a given situation make stuff automatic opposed to a split second hesitation that you might be able to get away with in college but can't in the NFL.
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Lonestar
11-09-2010, 01:16 PM
A LOT of us fans were very happy when we got Quinn. He seemed to have a lot of potential. still does just happens to be behind a potential Franchise QB with loads of talent but needs to get thru some mechanics issues.
IIRC lots of folks in other threads are calling for him to play over a proven vet whose is having a career/franchise record setting year.
:laugh:
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Lonestar
11-09-2010, 01:27 PM
I like how this situation is deflected by the homers and mcd apologists as whining or simply get over it.

First of all, the trade happened this past off season. All trades are monitored and evaluated the season of the trade. Or have you guys not forgotten how much shit you talked about Cutler throwing picks and Orton being way better? :confused: See, there is the double standard! Of course we can RAVE about Orton 2 seasons later but we must lockdown on Hillis 8 games into the trade :lol:

The idea Hillis has huge holes or lanes is simply absurd. Watch the damn games. 2/3rds of the guy's yards are the result of second effort and dragging three players with him. Again poor deflection.

Saying the Broncos HAD TO HAVE a new backup is silly. Simms was responsible for one game last season. O-N-E! Yet the running game was a problem ALL season long.

Common sense says value the runner you have on your team and rotate him with Moreno and Buck and let Brandstater be your back up or draft Tebow.

Now I have not seen any of hillis games for many different reason. But I'd guess that he is getting some holes and decent blocking at the LOS. I doubt seriously that he is getting met in the backfield like our guys seem to be with regularity. Let me know if I am wrong about this as I do not know for sure.

As for simms open your ******* eyes he was a mistake the guy had nothing left yet we did not know that until he had to play. Then it was a disaster had he played a bit better just maybe Orton would have not been forced to play on two bum high ankle sprains as soon as he was. Might have been alowed a little more time to heal.

But again your hind sight is indeed 2020.
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jhildebrand
11-09-2010, 01:41 PM
Now I have not seen any of hillis games for many different reason. But I'd guess that he is getting some holes and decent blocking at the LOS. I doubt seriously that he is getting met in the backfield like our guys seem to be with regularity. Let me know if I am wrong about this as I do not know for sure.

You tell me! I watched the Cleveland game. He is met at the LOS almost as much as Moreno. See this

r92hxqZc0cM&feature=related

Difference is he carries people on his back and second effort gets him yards.



As for simms open your ******* eyes he was a mistake the guy had nothing left yet we did not know that until he had to play. Then it was a disaster had he played a bit better just maybe Orton would have not been forced to play on two bum high ankle sprains as soon as he was. Might have been alowed a little more time to heal.

But again your hind sight is indeed 2020.


My foresight is 20/20 too Jrwiz. You can check my posts on bringing Quinn in. It was a joke.

You can get as hostile as you want. But you are the one who needs to open his ******* eyes and start by reading the thread.

You and any other poster can insist Chris Simms needed to go. I would never argue that.

However, where we depart and what I want you to answer is WHY DID WE NEED TO GET ANOTHER QB TO BACK UP ORTON WHEN

A. ORTON ONLY MISSED ONE GAME
B THIS TEAM HAD BRANDSTATER WHO LOOKED VERY GOOD IN PRESEASON BETTER THAN QUINN HAD AT ANY OF HIS PS GAMES
C AS MCDANIELS STYLE WE HAD TRADED UP FOR HIM A YEAR EARLIER!!!

Please answer that! Quinn was unnecessary with Brandstater here! period!

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-09-2010, 01:50 PM
You tell me! I watched the Cleveland game. He is met at the LOS almost as much as Moreno. See this

r92hxqZc0cM&feature=related

Difference is he carries people on his back and second effort gets him yards.



My foresight is 20/20 too Jrwiz. You can check my posts on bringing Quinn in. It was a joke.

You can get as hostile as you want. But you are the one who needs to open his ******* eyes and start by reading the thread.

You and any other poster can insist Chris Simms needed to go. I would never argue that.

However, where we depart and what I want you to answer is WHY DID WE NEED TO GET ANOTHER QB TO BACK UP ORTON WHEN

A. ORTON ONLY MISSED ONE GAME
B THIS TEAM HAD BRANDSTATER WHO LOOKED VERY GOOD IN PRESEASON BETTER THAN QUINN HAD AT ANY OF HIS PS GAMES
C AS MCDANIELS STYLE WE HAD TRADED UP FOR HIM A YEAR EARLIER!!!

Please answer that! Quinn was unnecessary with Brandstater here! period!

Didn't have much reason but I liked Brandstater... I didn't mind aquiring Quinn I thought it could work out however trading Hillis I really did not like from Day 1, but I accepted McD wanted nothing to do with him

jhildebrand
11-09-2010, 01:54 PM
Didn't have much reason but I liked Brandstater... I didn't mind aquiring Quinn I thought it could work out however trading Hillis I really did not like from Day 1, but I accepted McD wanted nothing to do with him

Why is that so hard for some others to admit. I think they feel like it is grounds for immediate dismissal of McD if they do!

Broncolingus
11-09-2010, 03:31 PM
http://www.moviemobsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/brick_tamland_quot_anchorman_quot.jpg

"...I love lamp..."

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Why is that so hard for some others to admit. I think they feel like it is grounds for immediate dismissal of McD if they do!

People want to beat around the bus fire the guy for anything he's done. Yea I didn't want to trade Hillis but we all knew McD was going to. I didn't like it but whatever that's what happens. People act like bitching is going to get Hillis, Smith, Cutler and whoever else back. Sorry it's over. Just be a real fan and support the team. Admit to what your team has done and move forward.

Northman
11-09-2010, 04:47 PM
People want to beat around the bus fire the guy for anything he's done. Yea I didn't want to trade Hillis but we all knew McD was going to. I didn't like it but whatever that's what happens. People act like bitching is going to get Hillis, Smith, Cutler and whoever else back. Sorry it's over. Just be a real fan and support the team. Admit to what your team has done and move forward.


Oh great, another "your not a fan because your unhappy with the coach" post. Woohoo!

SOCALORADO.
11-09-2010, 04:54 PM
People want to beat around the bus fire the guy for anything he's done. Yea I didn't want to trade Hillis but we all knew McD was going to. I didn't like it but whatever that's what happens. People act like bitching is going to get Hillis, Smith, Cutler and whoever else back. Sorry it's over. Just be a real fan and support the team. Admit to what your team has done and move forward.

Nah, nah. Not this crap.
I stood by this NO TALENT @$$ CLOWN for what basically amounts to 2 years while he royally F'D up this team.
I supported his every move and i did it here consistently. I constantly stood up for his new policies and his new coaching schemes time and time again.
I was like a freakin obama zombie just goin along with his every move, and singin songs and dancing around praising him as the next young guru coach.
But thats all over now. None of it worked, and its only getting worse.
I like the MAJORITY of bronco fans have had it.
F this guy. He clearly just has no clue.
Hes a great QB coach and a pretty good OC, but other than that, hes clearly in over his head. He needs to go.

http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/drew031809.gif

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-09-2010, 05:18 PM
Oh great, another "your not a fan because your unhappy with the coach" post. Woohoo!

Not at all I'm just saying if you're honestly a Broncos fan you need to support the team to some degree. I am in no way a McDaniels supporter, but some of the sh** people are saying is pointless makes no sense and is purely to ridicule McDaniels and the rest of the organization. What good will that do to dwell on the past non stop? Honestly how many threads are there about Peyton Hillis right now? He's gone one or two that's fine but there are multiple new ones every week.

Northman
11-09-2010, 05:24 PM
Not at all I'm just saying if you're honestly a Broncos fan you need to support the team to some degree.

You probably need to read more on this forum then. Despite the unhappiness i have yet to see anyone on this forum not support the team. We ALL want them to win but until that happens there is going to be a lot of grief and unhappy folks. We are all REAL fans dude and nothing has changed in that respect. When the team starts winning again than we can all gather around the fire and sing Kumbaya again. Any Bronco forum you find out there will have a lot of unhappy threads and folks. Its how it works, thats why we like places like this. We want to be able to come somewhere and vent our frustrations. McD has given us very little to even be excited about aside from his 6-0 start last year.

I Eat Staples
11-09-2010, 05:31 PM
Quinn knew the system and Hillis was lazy and dumb.

And he runs over people and is a good receiver out of the backfield, don't forget that.

SOCALORADO.
11-09-2010, 05:36 PM
And he runs over people and is a good receiver out of the backfield, don't forget that.

And plays injured. And plays so hard, he gets injured making an insane play, giving 110% for the team, but apparently hes a lazy POS, even though every other sane person alive thinks otherwise.

spikerman
11-09-2010, 05:50 PM
http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/drew031809.gif

That image is perfect. It sums up everything that has frustrated me better than any words could.

Dzone
11-09-2010, 06:31 PM
the first round pick we gave away to draft alphonso smith in th e second round, became the 12th overall and seattle used it to pick an ALL PRO safety, Earl Thomas...was this trade as heinous as the Hillis trade? Just as bad, thats for sure

Foochacho
11-09-2010, 07:35 PM
People want to beat around the bus fire the guy for anything he's done. Yea I didn't want to trade Hillis but we all knew McD was going to. I didn't like it but whatever that's what happens. People act like bitching is going to get Hillis, Smith, Cutler and whoever else back. Sorry it's over. Just be a real fan and support the team. Admit to what your team has done and move forward.

You want to buy all my broncos gear? Apparently I am not a real fan, and am not worthy enough to wear it.

The Glue Factory
11-09-2010, 08:31 PM
the first round pick we gave away to draft alphonso smith in th e second round, became the 12th overall and seattle used it to pick an ALL PRO safety, Earl Thomas...was this trade as heinous as the Hillis trade? Just as bad, thats for sure

No. Not even close. The Smith deal is much, much worse than the Hillis trade. Honestly, everyone is blowing this Hillis trade out of proportion by re-writing history. While some didn't like it nobody that I recall was screaming about it being a bad trade, unlike the Smith deal. I remember a number of people saying McD was crazy for making that deal.

claymore
11-09-2010, 08:34 PM
Nah, nah. Not this crap.
I stood by this NO TALENT @$$ CLOWN for what basically amounts to 2 years while he royally F'D up this team.
I supported his every move and i did it here consistently. I constantly stood up for his new policies and his new coaching schemes time and time again.
I was like a freakin obama zombie just goin along with his every move, and singin songs and dancing around praising him as the next young guru coach.
But thats all over now. None of it worked, and its only getting worse.
I like the MAJORITY of bronco fans have had it.
F this guy. He clearly just has no clue.
Hes a great QB coach and a pretty good OC, but other than that, hes clearly in over his head. He needs to go.

http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/drew031809.gif

Its good to have you back my Brother. :hug:

I Eat Staples
11-09-2010, 08:40 PM
No. Not even close. The Smith deal is much, much worse than the Hillis trade. Honestly, everyone is blowing this Hillis trade out of proportion by re-writing history. While some didn't like it nobody that I recall was screaming about it being a bad trade, unlike the Smith deal. I remember a number of people saying McD was crazy for making that deal.

This. Hindsight is 20-20, and only a few people thought Hillis would be really good at the time. No one in their right mind would have traded a first for a second. No one. Those are the things that piss me off most about McD, every coach makes mistakes but he does things on an unprecedented level of stupidity.

The Glue Factory
11-09-2010, 09:40 PM
This. Hindsight is 20-20, and only a few people thought Hillis would be really good at the time. No one in their right mind would have traded a first for a second. No one. Those are the things that piss me off most about McD, every coach makes mistakes but he does things on an unprecedented level of stupidity.

Most people weren't happy with the Hillis/Quinn trade but not a lot (if any) people were crying about it being a monumentally stupid move. The anger was over losing a player we had seen do good things. What makes things even more frustrating is that we can't easily see the reason for the trade and nobody is forthcoming with inside info.

Wandering off topic, I think we're seeing that Smith really is much better than what he was capable of here. Would that mean that McDaniels isn't as bad an evaluator of talent?

I Eat Staples
11-09-2010, 09:53 PM
Most people weren't happy with the Hillis/Quinn trade but not a lot (if any) people were crying about it being a monumentally stupid move. The anger was over losing a player we had seen do good things. What makes things even more frustrating is that we can't easily see the reason for the trade and nobody is forthcoming with inside info.

Wandering off topic, I think we're seeing that Smith really is much better than what he was capable of here. Would that mean that McDaniels isn't as bad an evaluator of talent?

I don't think Smith is that good, he's just making the most of his opportunities in a weak Lions secondary. And he still can't tackle for shit.

The bottom line is the value. Trading a first for a second straight up is never a value pick because there's better ways to move up to get the player you want. Of course, trading said player for a 7th round TE makes matters that much worse.

Lancane
11-09-2010, 09:54 PM
Wandering off topic, I think we're seeing that Smith really is much better than what he was capable of here. Would that mean that McDaniels isn't as bad an evaluator of talent?

Or maybe he has a better coach now? :coffee:

Let's evaluate the whole of it...McDaniels has made several bad trades, and maybe one good one, and that's a big maybe. Out of his 'Nineteen' draft picks, only one has proven to be above average in talent and made the starting lineup without help from injury or lack of talent at the position. That's with having four first round picks even, five if you count Smith! Cutler and Marshall were top tier talent, the others were starter capable but average and their replacements are average or worse. Thus we are not going forward only backwards as far as level of talent on the roster.

I Eat Staples
11-09-2010, 09:59 PM
Or maybe he has a better coach now? :coffee:

Let's evaluate the whole of it...McDaniels has made several bad trades, and maybe one good one, and that's a big maybe. Out of his 'Nineteen' draft picks, only one has proven to be above average in talent and made the starting lineup without help from injury or lack of talent at the position. That's with having four first round picks even, five if you count Smith! Cutler and Marshall were top tier talent, the others were starter capable but average and their replacements are average or worse. Thus we are not going forward only backwards as far as level of talent on the roster.

Who in the world is that one? If you're referring to Ayers, he was a starter specifically because of lack of talent. He's shown flashes of potential but that's it.

Superchop 7
11-09-2010, 10:02 PM
Well, theres a FB next year that I like, Owen Maricec,
just sayin.

The Glue Factory
11-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Or maybe he has a better coach now? :coffee:
That's my concern. Hillis and Smith performing better on different teams might indicate better coaching.



Let's evaluate the whole of it...McDaniels has made several bad trades, and maybe one good one, and that's a big maybe. Out of his 'Nineteen' draft picks, only one has proven to be above average in talent and made the starting lineup without help from injury or lack of talent at the position. That's with having four first round picks even, five if you count Smith! Cutler and Marshall were top tier talent, the others were starter capable but average and their replacements are average or worse. Thus we are not going forward only backwards as far as level of talent on the roster.
I'll agree that things may not be too good on the talent front from what we had to what we have. While the offense has declined in talent I'd say the defense has seen a net gain in talent. With only two years it's hard to determine a trend with how draft picks translates to productive players. On this I have to say we'll have to see another year or two to be able to make any general statements about the Broncos ability to draft talent.

Lancane
11-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Who in the world is that one? If you're referring to Ayers, he was a starter specifically because of lack of talent. He's shown flashes of potential but that's it.

I was trying to be optimistic Staples...lol.

Let's just face it, the organization from top to bottom sucks and we all hate it, some what to be supportive and the rest of us can not!

:tsk:

The Glue Factory
11-09-2010, 10:09 PM
The bottom line is the value. Trading a first for a second straight up is never a value pick because there's better ways to move up to get the player you want. Of course, trading said player for a 7th round TE makes matters that much worse.

That's where I agree. Giving up a first to draft someone in the second? He better be the second coming of John Elway AND Champ Bailey!

broncobryce
11-09-2010, 10:11 PM
I just saw a comment that the Hillis trade was the payback for "the drive". LOL

I Eat Staples
11-09-2010, 10:12 PM
I was trying to be optimistic Staples...lol.

Let's just face it, the organization from top to bottom sucks and we all hate it, some what to be supportive and the rest of us can not!

:tsk:

Optimism doesn't register in my vocabulary. :confused:

And I support the Broncos completely, which is why I desperately want McDaniels gone. The best way to fix your team is to get rid of the source of it's problems. Hell, it's so obvious that it could be a John Madden quote.

Northman
11-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Wandering off topic, I think we're seeing that Smith really is much better than what he was capable of here. Would that mean that McDaniels isn't as bad an evaluator of talent?

Maybe, maybe not. We do know from a LOT of aspects he is very impatient. Drafting a 1st round QB without letting his veteran have a complete 2nd year in a new system and then trading Smith just shows how impatient he is. Again, for me i never cared for Smith but im also not the HC who see's this kid everyday so it seems to be a pattern that McD is very impatient with letting players develope or get experience before making rash decisions.

Lancane
11-09-2010, 10:35 PM
That's my concern. Hillis and Smith performing better on different teams might indicate better coaching.

I'll agree that things may not be too good on the talent front from what we had to what we have. While the offense has declined in talent I'd say the defense has seen a net gain in talent. With only two years it's hard to determine a trend with how draft picks translates to productive players. On this I have to say we'll have to see another year or two to be able to make any general statements about the Broncos ability to draft talent.

Your concern is noted, but the proof is out there. With the turnaround of coaches in the NFL as it has been, McDaniels has proven to be the worst new head coach compared to others in a four to five year period. That is a very telling statistic in itself, most new head coaches in a two year period showed good improvement, give the Head Coaches in Oakland until now.

Name another head coach that has come into a franchise in the modern decade and purged the roster of it's better talent? Traded a franchise quarterback, let alone one of the top receivers in the league? Even beyond that...name another coach that has had nineteen picks, four or (five) first rounders out of that, that has not had at least one above average player who earned his way on the starting roster from nearly the start. Even the odds are in favor that we should have out of five picks nabbed an above average player. Our defense is a patchwork of veterans best suited in rotation and average journeyman.

Take Lloyd for example, there are so many on his jock right now...but has anyone considered that his stats are actually due to Orton needing a target? And because Orton has had to throw too much? Lloyd played for three other franchises that were in serious need of a good receiver and he just slipped through their fingers? Bullshit...he's just another average player benefiting from the scheme, he would be a good number two...but I at least realize as much...if Thomas somehow becomes the next Marshall for Denver then Thomas and Lloyd could be a solid tandem. But Thomas can not even surpass Jabar Gaffney and Eddie Royal on the depth chart...and he should have by now. Royal would be good in the slot or as a third down receiver, and Gaffney is fodder.

The offensive line is worse, the defensive line is worse...and take into consideration the amount of picks and free agent signings we've made in both areas the past two off-seasons. McDaniels is suspect as a Head Coach, and the whole of management is suspect in the evaluation and addition of talent. Hence, we're not getting better...only worse.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-09-2010, 11:45 PM
You want to buy all my broncos gear? Apparently I am not a real fan, and am not worthy enough to wear it.

That's not what I am saying at all. i understand the frustration and all of that but generally there is no optimism all dwelling on the past. All the McD haters just being pessimistic about everything.

Lancane
11-10-2010, 12:06 AM
That's not what I am saying at all. i understand the frustration and all of that but generally there is no optimism all dwelling on the past. All the McD haters just being pessimistic about everything.

Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-10-2010, 12:09 AM
Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.

Touche

HORSEPOWER 56
11-10-2010, 12:22 AM
Take Lloyd for example, there are so many on his jock right now...but has anyone considered that his stats are actually due to Orton needing a target? And because Orton has had to throw too much? Lloyd played for three other franchises that were in serious need of a good receiver and he just slipped through their fingers? Bullshit...he's just another average player benefiting from the scheme, he would be a good number two...but I at least realize as much...if Thomas somehow becomes the next Marshall for Denver then Thomas and Lloyd could be a solid tandem. But Thomas can not even surpass Jabar Gaffney and Eddie Royal on the depth chart...and he should have by now. Royal would be good in the slot or as a third down receiver, and Gaffney is fodder.


Lloyd is playing out of his mind right now, why? He's f'n broke and it's another contract year for him. The guy always had talent but was a "play when I want to" type. His attitude got him booted (not re-signed) in SF, he signed a big contract with Washington and couldn't (wouldn't work hard enough to) crack the starting lineup. Chicago gave him a shot and he got injured. McDaniels has now brought him in and Kyle is feeding him the ball as if he was feeding a starving Ethiopian child cream of wheat.

Lloyd always had the talent and ability to do what he's doing this season, but he's always been a premadonna until now. He realizes that if he has a great season this year and plays his ass off, either Denver or someone else will pay him big $ next year. That scares the SHIT out of me because I think it's a scam. I think as soon as he gets paid, he'll start losing focus, dropping balls, and taking plays off again like he did in Washington and SF.

Oh, and I think Thomas should've already taken over for Gaffney (in his limited action, he's shown that he's a special talent), but we all know that Gaffney, who has been average at best and has too many drops thus far this season, is another one of "Josh's Boys" who "knows the system" and Josh just won't replace him.

Ravage!!!
11-10-2010, 12:33 AM
Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.

Great post... :beer:

Tned
11-10-2010, 08:09 AM
And hindsight is 20/20. Remember that trade happened before the draft (i.e. no Tebow on the team yet) and our backup was the miserable Simms. Yes, Cleveland ended up with a very good RB but to say they raped the Broncos in the trade is just plain ignorance.

Had Tebow been already on the team and the Broncos made that trade, then I'd be more inclined to agree. But don't forget history. As I recall many said it was a good trade and many (like myself) wondered what the heck but it means we get rid of Simms as a back up thus net gain in the trade. Nobody said we were raped at the time.

Many of those upset about the Hillis trade were also upset last year when Buck has hurt, and Moreno was clearly worn out and innefective, that McD wouldn't even put Hillis in to spell him.

SOCALORADO.
11-10-2010, 09:41 AM
Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.

This.

Honestly. I tried. I tried to take the "high road."
I tried to be optimistic instead of negative.
I gave this clown all kinds of room as a HC.

F that. Clearly he's in over his head.

jhildebrand
11-10-2010, 10:38 AM
Many of those upset about the Hillis trade were also upset last year when Buck has hurt, and Moreno was clearly worn out and innefective, that McD wouldn't even put Hillis in to spell him.

That's what is so frustrating about the entire situation. I can't speak for the entire pro Hillis crowd but I know I wasn't advocating for him to be the starter.

I simply wanted him to get a shot. I will be the first to admit I wanted those chances early. However, had they come beginning with the Washington game, I would be a lot less vocal about the situation and less critical of McDaniels.

The problem for me is, once again, the way he handled the situation altogether from addressing the media and fans to trying to bury it. The worst was seeing him trot out LaMont Jordan. This, after proclaiming this team could and would win. After proclaiming the best guys can and will play.

If, last year, McDaniels wanted to insist Buck and Moreno were better, fine. But don't insult the intelligence of the fanbase by insisting that Jordan is not only better but gave the team a chance to win once Buck and Moreno were banged up.

EDIT: In the end, his refusal to do so may be his undoing. Had he done that he would have seen Hillis is a gamer. He might not have traded him. We might have a better run game and be showing signs of true progress and have a better record.

SOCALORADO.
11-10-2010, 11:13 AM
That's what is so frustrating about the entire situation. I can't speak for the entire pro Hillis crowd but I know I wasn't advocating for him to be the starter.

I simply wanted him to get a shot. I will be the first to admit I wanted those chances early. However, had they come beginning with the Washington game, I would be a lot less vocal about the situation and less critical of McDaniels.

The problem for me is, once again, the way he handled the situation altogether from addressing the media and fans to trying to bury it. The worst was seeing him trot out LaMont Jordan. This, after proclaiming this team could and would win. After proclaiming the best guys can and will play.

If, last year, McDaniels wanted to insist Buck and Moreno were better, fine. But don't insult the intelligence of the fanbase by insisting that Jordan is not only better but gave the team a chance to win once Buck and Moreno were banged up.

EDIT: In the end, his refusal to do so may be his undoing. Had he done that he would have seen Hillis is a gamer. He might not have traded him. We might have a better run game and be showing signs of true progress and have a better record.

That highlighted text is what has so many DEN fans absolutely beyond pissed.
Just sizzling mad.

Northman
11-10-2010, 11:19 AM
Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.


Post of the year. :beer:

arapaho2
11-10-2010, 12:02 PM
That's not what I am saying at all. i understand the frustration and all of that but generally there is no optimism all dwelling on the past. All the McD haters just being pessimistic about everything.


except watching quinn sitting on the bench while our run game is the sorriest rush offense in the league, when hillis is tearing shit up....is present...it is seen every weekend...

the past is letting sharpe walk to the ravens and win a SB....thats the past...the hillis trade is rubbed in our faces every week...

the two future draft picks given for quinn also make it a...NON PAST issue

Tned
11-10-2010, 01:49 PM
Post of the year. :beer:

I think I've had some pretty good posts... :sad:

Dreadnought
11-10-2010, 02:28 PM
The problem for me is, once again, the way he handled the situation altogether from addressing the media and fans to trying to bury it. The worst was seeing him trot out LaMont Jordan. This, after proclaiming this team could and would win. After proclaiming the best guys can and will play.

This, more than any other single incident, is when I truly knew that McDaniels was a fake. Other things bugged me, annoyed me, caused me to question his judgment. I went from mere skepticism to a much more serious doubt. When he then benched Scheffler and Marshall with our season on the line a week or two later I knew then that the guy had to go before we would ever saw any progress.

Dzone
11-10-2010, 02:30 PM
Jim Rome is talking a lot today about Hillis..called him THE JUGGERNAUT...said "How could Denver miss knowing what they had in this guy? The guys a beast"..Rome said it is the MOST ONE SIDED TRADE IN THE NFL THAT HE HAS SEEN IN A LONG TIME...just now heard it on the radio..foxsportsradio

SOCALORADO.
11-10-2010, 02:39 PM
Jim Rome is talking a lot today about Hillis..called him THE JUGGERNAUT...said "How could Denver miss knowing what they had in this guy? The guys a beast"..Rome said it is the MOST ONE SIDED TRADE IN THE NFL THAT HE HAS SEEN IN A LONG TIME...just now heard it on the radio..foxsportsradio

Its all over the interwebs dude..

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la498ygdhW1qznmiyo1_500.jpg

Ravage!!!
11-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Its all over the interwebs dude..

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la498ygdhW1qznmiyo1_500.jpg

Love that pic.... saving that

SOCALORADO.
11-10-2010, 03:00 PM
Love that pic.... saving that

Yeah, one of those frustratingly cool pics...
*sighs.....again*

arapaho2
11-10-2010, 06:19 PM
well in mcd's defense

since we were moving to a power running attack....only a idiot woulld think we dont need a power back

:laugh:

Northman
11-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Its all over the interwebs dude..

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la498ygdhW1qznmiyo1_500.jpg


THAT IS AWESOME! lol

Nomad
11-10-2010, 06:37 PM
Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.

I can agree with some of what you said, but if some fans have given up hope and expect a loss every Sunday, then why waste their time watching the BRONCOS! I get frustrated and am frustrated with McDaniels but I go into each game hoping/thinking that we'll win!

I Eat Staples
11-10-2010, 06:46 PM
I can agree with some of what you said, but if some fans have given up hope and expect a loss every Sunday, then why waste their time watching the BRONCOS! I get frustrated and am frustrated with McDaniels but I go into each game hoping/thinking that we'll win!

I hope. I just don't expect.

Lancane
11-10-2010, 07:08 PM
I can agree with some of what you said, but if some fans have given up hope and expect a loss every Sunday, then why waste their time watching the BRONCOS! I get frustrated and am frustrated with McDaniels but I go into each game hoping/thinking that we'll win!

We've given up on the coach, not the team...having a shit coach has little to do with our love of the team, just our faith in them. We're going through the same thing that Cincinnati, Oakland, Cleveland and Detroit fans have felt for some time.

Do you love your children or siblings any less because they've gotten into some trouble? No...but at the same time, you don't have to approve of their career choices or spouses either!

Slick
11-10-2010, 07:34 PM
Pessimistic? He was given the number two overall offense and one of the worst overall defenses in the league. And his priority was dismantling the offense instead of fixing the defense or even fixing the issues that either side of the line of scrimmage had! Our defense was improved under Nolan, but once again is pretty much crap under Wink. He did not even try to utilize what he was given, not one NFL head coach in the past decade, if not longer has come unto his position and purged his roster to the extent McDaniels did, not one...nor made the off-season's a circus act like he has. Why do you think the media, including the NFL Network have called Bowlen senile, or saying he may be plagued with mental health issues? It's bad enough he made himself look like an idiot to the world, but the rest of the front office brass too? That's some F'n talent that even Millen couldn't even commit in Detroit!

We tried optimism even after the Cutler trade, even after we ended up 2-8 after our 6-0 start...but he continued is bullshit antics the following off-season, and still some remained optimistic...but now? Optimism only goes so far before you realize that that it was all for nothing, before it turns even those who had a little faith into those who loath it.

McDaniels at the beginning of the season still had the support of the fanbase majority, but no more...the majority now wants him gone. That's what happens when a large fanbase is done dealing with your lies, bullshit circus antics and sorry ass coaching...he earned what's happening himself. We did not turn this organization into the bad pun of seriously sad joke...he did.

This is where I am at the moment as well, and I'd like to add that my excitement of having 4 first round picks over two years...adding some nice, new young talent, is swirling in the bowl.

Well said Lancane. People are pissed because they care, and they expect better of the Broncos.

Gimpygod
11-10-2010, 07:50 PM
thats the bitter issue...hillis was better than any back we have and has been proveing it all season

at some point bowlen must realize some of the things josh does isnt for the betterment of the team...its to remove any doubt about joshes decisions

brilliant! smore just like this please. well said!

Lancane
11-10-2010, 07:52 PM
This is where I am at the moment as well, and I'd like to add that my excitement of having 4 first round picks over two years...adding some nice, new young talent, is swirling in the bowl.

Well said Lancane. People are pissed because they care, and they expect better of the Broncos.

That's exactly it...we do care, or we wouldn't be arguing our side of it so readily or as often. Like we have nothing better to do? And yet, the thing that irritates us the most is the whole 'Fairweather' label that's placed on us by those who're so die-hard that they accept everything and support it without question, like we're lesser fans because we dispute it...how asinine and tiring!

Nomad
11-10-2010, 08:02 PM
That's exactly it...we do care, or we wouldn't be arguing our side of it so readily or as often. Like we have nothing better to do? And yet, the thing that irritates us the most is the whole 'Fairweather' label that's placed on us by those who're so die-hard that they accept everything and support it without question, like we're lesser fans because we dispute it...how asinine and tiring!

Who says it's fairweather to be upset with the current state of the BRONCOS....I know I never did!! What doesn't make sense to me is people saying we'll lose this or a game and have lost faith in the team but insist on watching the game and bitch and moan the whole gameday thread! I mean, if a person has the team losing before they've played.....why watch! I wouldn't bother watching if I had given up on them before they played!! If you have faith in a team, you expect them to win!! And I have learned from myself though years of pessimism.....it's not worth it! And i'm not niave to the current state of the BRONCOS!!

Ravage!!!
11-10-2010, 08:12 PM
Because we have a passion for the team, DESPITE knowing they are going to crash and burn. Even when you know they are going to lose, you WANT to see how they do. Even if they play like crap, you WANT to see it. Even when I KNOW they are going to get slapped around (like I knew we would against Baltimore).... I want to see it.

I don't know if we will lose coming off the bye week against an AFC west rival or not.. but I sure as hell don't feel confident in the game, and I KNOW I won't miss watching.

If nothing else, I can see if we can do anything right....or if we are closer to a new coaching regime.

Dzone
11-10-2010, 08:19 PM
Wandering off topic, I think we're seeing that Smith really is much better than what he was capable of here. Would that mean that McDaniels isn't as bad an evaluator of talent?
If Smith becomes a star, then that shows even more what a poor judge of talent Mcdaniels is because he got rid of him for a journeyman TE. When the league is full of formenr Broncos making a difference for their new teams, well, that just makes this current mcdaniels regime look even worse.

Gimpygod
11-10-2010, 08:25 PM
That's my concern. Hillis and Smith performing better on different teams might indicate better coaching.

I'll agree that things may not be too good on the talent front from what we had to what we have. While the offense has declined in talent I'd say the defense has seen a net gain in talent. With only two years it's hard to determine a trend with how draft picks translates to productive players. On this I have to say we'll have to see another year or two to be able to make any general statements about the Broncos ability to draft talent.

right either McDaniels sucks as a talent evaluator or he sucks as a coach...or both. Championship!

Dzone
11-10-2010, 08:33 PM
Oh, and I think Thomas should've already taken over for Gaffney (in his limited action, he's shown that he's a special talent), but we all know that Gaffney, who has been average at best and has too many drops thus far this season, is another one of "Josh's Boys" who "knows the system" and Josh just won't replace him.
Mcdaniels passed on Dez Bryant and took D Thomas...now Dez Bryant is the favorite for rookie of the year, while D. Thomas is sitting the bench...
Im getting sick and tired of Mcdaniels screwing this franchise at every turn:mad:

Northman
11-10-2010, 08:39 PM
Who says it's fairweather to be upset with the current state of the BRONCOS....I know I never did!! What doesn't make sense to me is people saying we'll lose this or a game and have lost faith in the team but insist on watching the game and bitch and moan the whole gameday thread! I mean, if a person has the team losing before they've played.....why watch! I wouldn't bother watching if I had given up on them before they played!! If you have faith in a team, you expect them to win!! And I have learned from myself though years of pessimism.....it's not worth it! And i'm not niave to the current state of the BRONCOS!!

I think part of the problem is the lack of discipline on the team. Every sunday i go to watch my team (when i can) and right away when i see the silly mistakes it just drives me crazy. Especially if i know we blew a golden opportunity to score or keep momentum. Faith is fine but you shouldnt come here and tell people how they need to respond. No one tells the more optimists people not too be positive. So the same respect and regard should be shown to us on here. Thats the problem that i have with some of the people on here. They would rather make us the topic rather than stay on the topic of the team. If people want to be positive and have good faith in the team, great. But, just respect those who dont share those sentiments. ;)

The Glue Factory
11-10-2010, 08:40 PM
If Smith becomes a star, then that shows even more what a poor judge of talent Mcdaniels is because he got rid of him for a journeyman TE. When the league is full of formenr Broncos making a difference for their new teams, well, that just makes this current mcdaniels regime look even worse.

Not necessarily. There's also the possibility that for whatever reason Smith just wouldn't do so hot here but do well somewhere else. That happens a lot in the NFL. If B. Quinn ends up being hot stuff in Denver would it mean that Cleveland didn't evaluate his talent well or didn't do well coaching him? Maybe. But it could just be the different location led to the success.

Having said all of that, if there's a lot of ex-Broncos running around the NFL doing better at their new team than ours, I will concede that McD and company can't coach. Obviously, they assessed the talent is good but can't translate the potential into performance.

Nomad
11-10-2010, 08:52 PM
I think part of the problem is the lack of discipline on the team. Every sunday i go to watch my team (when i can) and right away when i see the silly mistakes it just drives me crazy. Especially if i know we blew a golden opportunity to score or keep momentum. Faith is fine but you shouldnt come here and tell people how they need to respond. No one tells the more optimists people not too be positive. So the same respect and regard should be shown to us on here. Thats the problem that i have with some of the people on here. They would rather make us the topic rather than stay on the topic of the team. If people want to be positive and have good faith in the team, great. But, just respect those who dont share those sentiments. ;)

What you talkin about??? Respect! You are telling me I have to respect some whining person who said we are going to get our ass's kicked then jumps in all game bitching and moaning when we're supposed to lose in his eyes anyway! Nah! I call out the mistake's in a game and give criticism when due during the game, but if I came into the games with the attitude of 'we're gonna suck and get our asses kicked' I surely wouldn't waste my time watching and bitching/moaning when I figured that's what was gonna happen!

I'm not telling anyone what to do, each to their own, if they want to live like that then more power to them. It just doesn't make sense to me!

Northman
11-10-2010, 08:57 PM
What you talkin about??? Respect! You are telling me I have to respect some whining person who said we are going to get our ass's kicked then jumps in all game bitching and moaning when we're supposed to lose in his eyes anyway! Nah! I call out the mistake's in a game and give criticism when due during the game, but if I came into the games with the attitude of 'we're gonna suck and get our asses kicked' I surely wouldn't waste my time watching and bitching/moaning when I figured that's what was gonna happen!

I'm not telling anyone what to do, each to their own, if they want to live like that then more power to them. It just doesn't make sense to me!

It doesnt have to make sense, but when you come on here attacking someone and calling them out it creates problems with the discussions at hand. Defend your stance on the team any way you like but keep it on that topic and not the poster. So yes, it a bit of respect for an opposing opinion would be in order. You dont have to like that view but in the essence of avoiding violating the COC and leading to derailed threads it might be better to either throw them on ignore or stay on topic. Thats the point im trying to get across to you.

Ravage!!!
11-10-2010, 09:00 PM
Not necessarily. There's also the possibility that for whatever reason Smith just wouldn't do so hot here but do well somewhere else. That happens a lot in the NFL. If B. Quinn ends up being hot stuff in Denver would it mean that Cleveland didn't evaluate his talent well or didn't do well coaching him? Maybe. But it could just be the different location led to the success.

Having said all of that, if there's a lot of ex-Broncos running around the NFL doing better at their new team than ours, I will concede that McD and company can't coach. Obviously, they assessed the talent is good but can't translate the potential into performance.

How about if we can find several players that have been drafted here, that aren't playing well? Does that count in the same direction as if they went somewhere else and played better?

Nomad
11-10-2010, 09:05 PM
It doesnt have to make sense, but when you come on here attacking someone and calling them out it creates problems with the discussions at hand. Defend your stance on the team any way you like but keep it on that topic and not the poster. So yes, it a bit of respect for an opposing opinion would be in order. You dont have to like that view but in the essence of avoiding violating the COC and leading to derailed threads it might be better to either throw them on ignore or stay on topic. Thats the point im trying to get across to you.

You're pulling stuff out of anus now! Who did I attack? it's a simple question I was asking but if you fall into that category....sorry for offending you!! But there is more than me who it doesn't make sense, but I'm done! Carry on !!

Remain a poster because you are not a mod...remember that!! If a mod feels I'm attacking then they will tell me so!!

Northman
11-10-2010, 09:07 PM
You're pulling stuff out of anus now! Who did I attack? it's a simple question I was asking but if you fall into that category....sorry for offending you!! But there is more than me who it doesn't make sense, but I'm done! Carry on !!

Remain a poster because you are not a mod...remember that!! If a mod feels I'm attacking then they will tell me so!!


Why are you freaking out so bad? :lol:

I simply asked you to stay away from telling people how they need to feel and keep it on topic. Thats it.

frauschieze
11-10-2010, 09:10 PM
Good gravy! Knock it off you two!


Okay? Okay. :D

BeefStew25
11-11-2010, 01:10 AM
I am going to go into my closet and sob. Freaking Hillis. Dude is just what we need with our horseshit line.

BoltWalt
11-11-2010, 03:03 AM
Or maybe he has a better coach now? :coffee:

Let's evaluate the whole of it...McDaniels has made several bad trades, and maybe one good one, and that's a big maybe. Out of his 'Nineteen' draft picks, only one has proven to be above average in talent and made the starting lineup without help from injury or lack of talent at the position. That's with having four first round picks even, five if you count Smith! Cutler and Marshall were top tier talent, the others were starter capable but average and their replacements are average or worse. Thus we are not going forward only backwards as far as level of talent on the roster.

Do you really believe Cutler was top tier talent? I believe when he is finally out of the league he will be spoken of as the most over rated of all time.

oubronco
11-11-2010, 02:41 PM
Stupidist trade by a mile

Ravage!!!
11-11-2010, 02:47 PM
Do you really believe Cutler was top tier talent? I believe when he is finally out of the league he will be spoken of as the most over rated of all time.

Nah... your boy will still always hold that candle.... :salute:

I Eat Staples
11-11-2010, 03:33 PM
Do you really believe Cutler was top tier talent? I believe when he is finally out of the league he will be spoken of as the most over rated of all time.

Cutler really isn't rated all that high by anyone these days.

tomjonesrocks
11-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Jim Rome is talking a lot today about Hillis..called him THE JUGGERNAUT...said "How could Denver miss knowing what they had in this guy? The guys a beast"..Rome said it is the MOST ONE SIDED TRADE IN THE NFL THAT HE HAS SEEN IN A LONG TIME...just now heard it on the radio..foxsportsradio

I listen to Rome a lot--who I understand is a somewhat contentious figure here and elsewhere--but it's been really tough to hear this all week. Indeed he constantly refers to him as you mentioned as a "juggernaut", "beast", "franchise RB" and the Broncos have been rightly ripped MERCILESSLY for letting this guy go.

Everything McDaniels does seems to turn to shit. What's the saying? Even a broken clock is right twice a day? McDaniels can't even seem to muster this level of success with his personnel moves. Please fire...please fire...:mad:

The Glue Factory
11-12-2010, 02:42 PM
I wonder what Mr. Rome said way back before the draft when the trade was actually made? :confused: