Why Hillis is no longer a Bronco

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

[missingnumber7]

Umm...Hillis=Shanny guy...pretty much sums it up for me.

[Dreadnought]

Hmmm...methinks the McDaniels organization might be yet again making stuff up again about ex-players. Their least attractive attribute of many unattractive attributes. Whisper campaigns personally disgust me, and its become a pattern with these guys.

In short, I don't believe it for a second.

[broncofaninfla]

Thanks for posting but I don't buy it for a second. Expect stories like this to be leaked out of Denver as Hillis continues to shine while Mcd/Xanders/Ellis Broncos struggling.
All training camp reports cited Hillis having a very impressive training camp prior to Mcd ignoring him for the year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Hmmm...methinks the McDaniels organization might be yet again making stuff up again about ex-players. Their least attractive attribute of many unattractive attributes. Whisper campaigns personally disgust me, and its become a pattern with these guys.

In short, I don't believe it for a second.

Miller said that this did not come from a coach, player - i.e. anyone connected with the Broncos. I would assume that means someone in the media, press, etc.

[Thnikkaman]

Obviously Hillis is no longer a Bronco because we needed a back up QB that was better than Chris Simms. If the draft happened before the trade was considered, Hillis would likely still be a Bronco.

Y'all act more emo than my 16 year old cousin with a personality disorder.

[Lonestar]

Miller said that this did not come from a coach, player - i.e. anyone connected with the Broncos. I would assume that means someone in the media, press, etc.

Forget it Carol it is way to easy to bash Josh and company than figure what the real reasons were.

The haters bash for any and all reasons.

Most invested their reps in other folks and still do not like him for assorted reason.

Time will tell
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[Ravage!!!]

Seems we always hear this. "He had a bad attitude".. "He didnt play hard"...and my ABSOLUTE favorite around here.... "He didn't want to be a Bronco."

The coach had just spend a 1st round pick on his "bigger stronger, smarter" players and didn't like the media constantly asking about Hillis. Hillis was causing the media and fans to consistently doubt his choices as to who was in the line-up. Now that he's gone, he thought he would never have to hear about Hillis again. :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

Obviously Hillis is no longer a Bronco because we needed a back up QB that was better than Chris Simms. If the draft happened before the trade was considered, Hillis would likely still be a Bronco.

Y'all act more emo than my 16 year old cousin with a personality disorder.

Thats not obvious, and I don't even think thats true, at all. We HAD a back-up last year, and yet the coach chose to play Jordan instead. Last season had nothing to do with needing a replacement for Simms.

[Mike]

Forget it Carol it is way to easy to bash Josh and company than figure what the real reasons were.

The haters bash for any and all reasons.

Most invested their reps in other folks and still do not like him for assorted reason.

Time will tell
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That's crap. The reason most don't like him is because he has driven our team into the ground. I asked before and I will ask again, what today has McD done to make the Broncos a better/more competitive team? What exactly has he done to instill this sense of trust and hope in you supporters?

And to be honest, we don't need to look for easy excuses, every weekend McD hands Bronco fans plenty of reason to bash him.

[Lonestar]

Obviously Hillis is no longer a Bronco because we needed a back up QB that was better than Chris Simms. If the draft happened before the trade was considered, Hillis would likely still be a Bronco.

Y'all act more emo than my 16 year old cousin with a personality disorder.

Thanks for bringing this back up. I had mentioned this way back.

How many folks that did not hate Quinn up front applauded this move. Getting rid of simms for another first round QB was hailed by pretty much everyone.

Had Tebow benn drafted before that trade would not have happened.

The emo comment was an arrow thru the heart.
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[Dreadnought]

How many folks that did not hate Quinn up front applauded this move. Getting rid of simms for another first round QB was hailed by pretty much everyone.

Rubbish

[UrbanBounca]

I can't say I believe it, honestly. Hillis is running people over, and that takes playing hard. I've said it since day one, and I'll say it again; McD is an idiot, and didn't give Hillis much of a chance.

Hillis has 644 yards, with nine TD's, while Moreno and Buckhalter combined have just over 300 yards.

[Dzone]

Hillis is gone because Mcdaniles is an utter fool..he continues making mistake after mistake..how many more Mcdaniels mistakes do we loyal fans have to suffer through?

[Dzone]

That's crap. The reason most don't like him is because he has driven our team into the ground. I asked before and I will ask again, what today has McD done to make the Broncos a better/more competitive team? What exactly has he done to instill this sense of trust and hope in you supporters?

And to be honest, we don't need to look for easy excuses, every weekend McD hands Bronco fans plenty of reason to bash him.
Amen to that!!!!:salute:

[Northman]

Yea, Moreno has never put the ball on the ground...errr....wait...

Some people just cant admit that McD makes mistakes and would rather make excuses for him at every turn.

[BigSarge87]

This decision with Hillis is hard for me to understand because it's not like he was horrible here and went on to play better in Cleveland.

He was damn good here. He ran hard, punished linebackers, was a good option on short yardage and was a great recieving threat on swing passes and circle routes.

Everyone that watched him knew this becuase they had seen him do it nearly every time he came in the game. He deserved more chances. He earned it here.

He very likely would have AT LEAST became a threat similar to Mike Tolbert in SD.

And don't give me the B.S. about "well McDaniels had a different running system that didn't fit Hillis's running style". Finding players with talent and heart is rare. When you find a guy like that you find ways to use him. Period. You don't trade him for a player that will likely never play.

[Lonestar]

That's crap. The reason most don't like him is because he has driven our team into the ground. I asked before and I will ask again, what today has McD done to make the Broncos a better/more competitive team? What exactly has he done to instill this sense of trust and hope in you supporters?

And to be honest, we don't need to look for easy excuses, every weekend McD hands Bronco fans plenty of reason to bash him.

Driven into the ground.

AYE (an old navy term for bull shit)

He made the hard decisions that had to be made. The zbs is now a joke especially when playing a 3-4 team at least ours has been for a decade. Let's use the current mantra "lots of stats no scoring" for what it has been for a decade.

Cutler another jeff george that would never played a contolled passing game looking for the open reciever over throwing into deep coverage.

Marshall a head case one 911 call away from 8 week vacation.

Ts a TE that could not wrap he head around that TE need to make an effort of blocking on the LOS

Hillis not sure the real reason he did not get a real chance with either mike (until last man standing) or Josh. But the only thing in common there we're Hillis, BT and dennison. So you can chose the real reasons.

Do you really think as competitive that Josh is that he would not have used hillis if he was every thing that he is doing in CLE while here. I don't for a minute.



The D seriously want to discuss that it did not need to be scrapped.

So what else did he do to drive this team into the ground other than what is listed above?
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[Dreadnought]

Driven into the ground.

AYE (an old navy term for bull shit)

He made the hard decisions that had to be made. The zbs is now a joke especially when playing a 3-4 team at least ours has been for a decade. Let's use the current mantra "lots of stats no scoring" for what it has been for a decade.

Cutler another jeff george that would never played a contolled passing game looking for the open reciever over throwing into deep coverage.

Marshall a head case one 911 call away from 8 week vacation.

Ts a TE that could not wrap he head around that TE need to make an effort of blocking on the LOS

Hillis not sure the real reason he did not get a real chance with either mike (until last man standing) or Josh. But the only thing in common there we're Hillis, BT and dennison. So you can chose the real reasons.

Do you really think as competitive that Josh is that he would not have used hillis if he was every thing that he is doing in CLE while here. I don't for a minute.



The D seriously want to discuss that it did not need to be scrapped.

So what else did he do to drive this team into the ground other than what is listed above?
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Not a single thing you wrote there is even remotely true, apartfrom the defense sucking in 08. Want to try again?

[Dzone]

Not a single thing you wrote there is even remotely true, apartfrom the defense sucking in 08. Want to try again?

His worship of Mcdaniels is bordering on a religion..utter and complete blind faith and unconditional love for Josh Mcdaniels...in his mind, Mcdaniels can do NO wrong

[Mike]

Driven into the ground.

AYE (an old navy term for bull shit)

He made the hard decisions that had to be made. The zbs is now a joke especially when playing a 3-4 team at least ours has been for a decade. Let's use the current mantra "lots of stats no scoring" for what it has been for a decade.

Cutler another jeff george that would never played a contolled passing game looking for the open reciever over throwing into deep coverage.

Marshall a head case one 911 call away from 8 week vacation.

Ts a TE that could not wrap he head around that TE need to make an effort of blocking on the LOS

Hillis not sure the real reason he did not get a real chance with either mike (until last man standing) or Josh. But the only thing in common there we're Hillis, BT and dennison. So you can chose the real reasons.

Do you really think as competitive that Josh is that he would not have used hillis if he was every thing that he is doing in CLE while here. I don't for a minute.



The D seriously want to discuss that it did not need to be scrapped.

So what else did he do to drive this team into the ground other than what is listed above?
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So he got rid of some bad apples. I got no beef with that. I will ask again, how those things have made the Broncos a better/more competitive team. My main beef is what he has done with the rest.

-Trashed a sturdy O-line.
-Attempted to use a bandaid to fix D-line.
-New offensive scheme with the same shortfalls as old offensive scheme.
-Constant personality conflicts with players and coaches.
-Trading away good players and doing somewhere between jack and shit with what he gets for them.
-Pissing away draft picks.
-Consistently getting the Broncos asses handed to them at home by our division rivals.
-A team that shows no growth development and often a lack of preparation on game day

Should I keep going or is this enough to put into question the capability of our HC?

[rationalfan]

Umm...Hillis=Shanny guy...pretty much sums it up for me.

perhaps. but it's worth mentioning - for the 872nd time - that hillis didn't get much playing time until five other running backs were injured. it's not like he was a favored son of shanny. just a favored son of broncos fans.

[Lonestar]

This decision with Hillis is hard for me to understand because it's not like he was horrible here and went on to play better in Cleveland.

He was damn good here. He ran hard, punished linebackers, was a good option on short yardage and was a great recieving threat on swing passes and circle routes.

Everyone that watched him knew this becuase they had seen him do it nearly every time he came in the game. He deserved more chances. He earned it here.

He very likely would have AT LEAST became a threat similar to Mike Tolbert in SD.

And don't give me the B.S. about "well McDaniels had a different running system that didn't fit Hillis's running style". Finding players with talent and heart is rare. When you find a guy like that you find ways to use him. Period. You don't trade him for a player that will likely never play.

Good post and I do not disagree with much of it.

Hillis did not see the field for much if his rookie season until there was NO one left. He came in and killed it until he was injured. Why did he not play before?

He did not fit into thr bronco mold for a RB 200-215 pounds that mike and Bobby loved.

He was drafted to be a FB and reciever out of the backfield not to be a RB. When he failed to beat out a LB at being a blocking back well doghouse for him.

Enter Josh who retains BT and Dennison. Hillis coming off of IR, guesing that in coaching sessions prior to the draft when he was discussed I'm guessing that BT and RD both suggested getting a RB in the draft over banking all their hopes on the skells they had on the team.

Enter moreno whom had the best rookie RB numbers last year. Why was hillis not given more touches? The only common denominators here are Hillis, Dennison and Bobby (RB coach).

When you look at it logically ther is no other conclusion you can come up with. Is there JOSH is a moron. BT had nothing to do with any of it. :laugh: :laugh:
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[Lonestar]

Whoops forgot to add BT was said to be the guy in charge of saying who got the reps in practice for RBs under mike.

I also heard that it remained that way under Josh.

You can make your own conclusions if that is correct. I have.
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[nevcraw]

Luckily for Hillis his (insert any of the numerous erroneous derogatory rumors from those who don't think the FO made a mistake) is cured and he is again playing football like a complete stud in cleveland.

[BigSarge87]

Good post and I do not disagree with much of it.

He did not fit into thr bronco mold for a RB 200-215 pounds that mike and Bobby loved.

He was drafted to be a FB and reciever out of the backfield not to be a RB. When he failed to beat out a LB at being a blocking back well doghouse for him.



This whole mentality by coaches drives me nuts. I know there is a system they are trying to follow, but when a player emerges as a potential talent, they need to 're-mold' the system to fit them in and give them chances to make big plays. I don't like the idea of fixed systems that coaches insist on following. When you have talent on your team, for F*&#'s sake, find ways to take advantage of it.

Also, I know this topic is dead and beat to death. But it does still feel good to vent about it.

[TXBRONC]

Miller said that this did not come from a coach, player - i.e. anyone connected with the Broncos. I would assume that means someone in the media, press, etc.

What are basing your assumption on? There is nothing in Miller's comments to indicate where that observation comes at I didn't see anything that indicate it.

Imho Miller probably heard it from someone within the organization.
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[BORDERLINE]

that rumor is bullcrap. Hillis would shine anywhere given a chance that man has heart.

[Lonestar]

Hmmm...methinks the McDaniels organization might be yet again making stuff up again about ex-players. Their least attractive attribute of many unattractive attributes. Whisper campaigns personally disgust me, and its become a pattern with these guys.

In short, I don't believe it for a second.

You have been an avowed Josh disser almost from day one, so this is par for YOUR course.

[Dreadnought]

You have been an avowed Josh disser almost from day one, so this is par for YOUR course.

Wrong yet again. He was after all my first choice for coaching hires. I turned against him decisively when he tanked the 2009 season by blowing the Chiefs and Raiders games last year, based entirely on his own errors and leadership failures. I was modestly supportive prior to that, esp.after the 6 game win streak. Thought he might be on to something.

[arapaho2]

Driven into the ground.

AYE (an old navy term for bull shit)

He made the hard decisions that had to be made. The zbs is now a joke especially when playing a 3-4 team at least ours has been for a decade. Let's use the current mantra "lots of stats no scoring" for what it has been for a decade.

Cutler another jeff george that would never played a contolled passing game looking for the open reciever over throwing into deep coverage.

Marshall a head case one 911 call away from 8 week vacation.

Ts a TE that could not wrap he head around that TE need to make an effort of blocking on the LOS

Hillis not sure the real reason he did not get a real chance with either mike (until last man standing) or Josh. But the only thing in common there we're Hillis, BT and dennison. So you can chose the real reasons.

Do you really think as competitive that Josh is that he would not have used hillis if he was every thing that he is doing in CLE while here. I don't for a minute.



The D seriously want to discuss that it did not need to be scrapped.

So what else did he do to drive this team into the ground other than what is listed above?
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so the zone blocking was a mistake,,,for a decade...yet we were in the top 5 every single year, but two, in rushing

lets break it down and show what MCD and you as his publisist insist he fixed

in shannys last 6 years...3 qbs...the loss of a HOF TE...no season including TD...loss of nalen, lepsis and others...he still averaged

15.8 rushing TDs per yr..about 1 td per game
2245 rushing yards per year..about 140.3 ypg
41 offensive TDs per yr...2.5 tds per game

mcd
9 tds in 09,5 this year..14 tds in 24 games, about, about .5 tds per game:lol:

averging about...98 yards per game:lol:

he has gotten worse in red zone...worse in 3rd down...worse in rushing

so tell me again what the benefits of this new "way" is...i forget:confused:

we dont know if cutler coulda played it..chances are he coulda did very well...i mean josh is the great qb maker right?

marshall is also a threat on every down to take it all the way..and demands double and triple coverages

TS could not grasp blocking...yet quinn can..right?...trouble is TS is a Pass catching TE..if we needed a 2 te blocking set...thats why there was that big richard quinn...if we need a pass catching te to open the middle of the field...we now have.......ummmm...no one


hillis didnt get the chance because he was a fan favorite and a shanny pick...pure and simple..josh choose to jettison a shanny pick that would have been a huge asset...simpley because he was a shanny pick and not his...all the excuses laid out for the trade dont mean shit when you can put those same issues on the feet of joshes picks and they arent gone or traded

yes we think that josh would not have used him...because we seen him do it in 09 useing a old has been washed up former patriot instead


in shannys last yr we were the 2nd total offense...12th in scoreing...12th in rushing..3rd in passing

under josh we are...8th in total off...24th in scoreing....3rd in passing and 32nd in rushing...pssss thats dead last:coffee:

we are 31st in rush def...27th in def scores allowed

so tell me where did josh improve the team...im haveing trouble seeing it

[SOCALORADO.]

Yea, Moreno has never put the ball on the ground...errr....wait...

Some people just cant admit that McD makes mistakes and would rather make excuses for him at every turn.

I gave this guy a huge amount of space to do what he thought was best for the team. Ask anyone. You know this.
I stayed outta the in fighting over Shanny/Cutler and i actually slowed my posting to almost nill. I quit the other sites because of it, and i have stood by this dude since he was hired.
But no more.
I gave him plenty of room, and all he has done is screw up at every turn.
Tried to support him, but Hillis is just yet another fubar move this guy made that has completely caused him to lose the fan base.
If his moves were result oriented in wins, or at least glimpses of improvement that would bring wins, then i would accept it, but this is clearly not the case.

[TXBRONC]

that rumor is bullcrap. Hillis would shine anywhere given a chance that man has heart.

McDaniels said he wanted a power running game. Hillis is a power back for McDaniels or anyone else in the organization to say he was bad fit is spinning it because they don't want to admit they might have made a mistake.
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[Slick]

What a great way to start the week.

:motz:

[Lonestar]

perhaps. but it's worth mentioning - for the 872nd time - that hillis didn't get much playing time until five other running backs were injured. it's not like he was a favored son of shanny. just a favored son of broncos fans.

Some have a real short memory when it comes to mikes short comings..

He was drafted to be a Blocking Back and could not beat out a KB at that job. He was praised by mike after the draft saying he had good hands and could be used out of the back field for that.

I remember hearing mikey tell everyone this kid has the softest hands on the team IIRC it was some time in the preseason or training camp. But could have been earlier in the year in the otas.


yet after a great game against GB in the preseason was did not catch a ball till game 9 IIRC oh wait here are the game logs.


Preseason Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
1 08/09 @ HOU L 16-19 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
2 08/16 DAL W 23-13 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 0 0.0 0 0 -- --
3 08/22 GB L 24-27 1 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 1 14 14.0 14 0 -- --
4 08/29 @ ARI W 28-14 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
TOTAL 3 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 2 14 7.0 14 0 0 0

Regular Season Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 0 3 14 4.7 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
5 10/05 TB W 16-13 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
6 10/12 JAC L 17-24 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
7 10/20 @ NE L 7-41 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
8 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
9 11/02 MIA L 17-26 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- 7 116 16.6 47 1 -- --
10 11/06 @ CLE W 34-30 1 0 8 24 3.0 10 0 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
11 11/16 @ ATL W 24-20 1 1 10 44 4.4 12 2 3 26 8.7 14 0 -- --
12 11/23 OAK L 10-31 1 1 17 74 4.4 13 1 2 22 11.0 16 0 -- --
13 11/30 @ NYJ W 34-17 1 1 22 129 5.9 19 1 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
14 12/07 KC W 24-17 1 1 8 58 7.3 18T 1 1 11 11.0 11 0 -- --
TOTAL 12 6 68 343 5.0 19 5 14 179 12.8 47 1 0 0


.


So lets dispense with the bull shit about how great mike and BT thought he was.. until the last RB fell to IR then he saved the season pretty much for mikey. Until he was cut down also while making an incredible catch on the sideline.

I loved the kid and was one of the very first on here that was beating his drum. but for naught.

[Gimpygod]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

all this proves (supposing validity… Which I don't) is that Mangini is a better coach than McDaniels. The Browns coach took this fumble fingered slacker and made him into one of the better rushers in the league, brilliant. Interestingly, Shanahan made him look rather special as well. Pretty strange coincidence that he only looked like crap, was terrible, was not a contributor was under McDaniels. Forget it, I'm not even going to be coy, McDaniels sucks and cannot bring out the best in his players: excluding KO who I believe is practically bursting with self-motivation and determination.

[Slick]

Some have a real short memory when it comes to mikes short comings..



Thanks for reminding us.

[Lonestar]

This whole mentality by coaches drives me nuts. I know there is a system they are trying to follow, but when a player emerges as a potential talent, they need to 're-mold' the system to fit them in and give them chances to make big plays. I don't like the idea of fixed systems that coaches insist on following. When you have talent on your team, for F*&#'s sake, find ways to take advantage of it.

Also, I know this topic is dead and beat to death. But it does still feel good to vent about it.

I really do not have an issue with it, BUT I will always contend that there is more to to this than Him not fitting Joshes system.

What I do not know but have guessed about it on more than one occasion.

[TXBRONC]

all this proves (supposing validity… Which I don't) is that Mangini is a better coach than McDaniels. The Browns coach took this fumble fingered slacker and made him into one of the better rushers in the league, brilliant. Interestingly, Shanahan made him look rather special as well. Pretty strange coincidence that he only looked like crap, was terrible, was not a contributor was under McDaniels. Forget it, I'm not even going to be coy, McDaniels sucks and cannot bring out the best in his players: excluding KO who I believe is practically bursting with self-motivation and determination.

Yeah Hillis is doing pretty well for slacker.
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[Northman]

I gave this guy a huge amount of space to do what he thought was best for the team. Ask anyone. You know this.
I stayed outta the in fighting over Shanny/Cutler and i actually slowed my posting to almost nill. I quit the other sites because of it, and i have stood by this dude since he was hired.
But no more.
I gave him plenty of room, and all he has done is screw up at every turn.
Tried to support him, but Hillis is just yet another fubar move this guy made that has completely caused him to lose the fan base.
If his moves were result oriented in wins, or at least glimpses of improvement that would bring wins, then i would accept it, but this is clearly not the case.

For you mate. ;)

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/gruden-1.jpg

[Gimpygod]

Obviously Hillis is no longer a Bronco because we needed a back up QB that was better than Chris Simms. If the draft happened before the trade was considered, Hillis would likely still be a Bronco.

Y'all act more emo than my 16 year old cousin with a personality disorder.

he was not being used at all, in fact Lamont Jordan was ahead of him and the depth chart along with other crappy players, we didn't just get rid of him because we needed a backup quarterback, we could have traded cb, Moreno or others for not being as productive as Peyton Hillis. The reason we traded him is because McDaniels lacked the vision and player evaluation skills necessary to be a good head coach… As to your incessant slams and delusional positions of superiority, You are more Glenn Beck than that monkey who throws his own crap at the zoo.

[Lonestar]

Wrong yet again. He was after all my first choice for coaching hires. I turned against him decisively when he tanked the 2009 season by blowing the Chiefs and Raiders games last year, based entirely on his own errors and leadership failures. I was modestly supportive prior to that, esp.after the 6 game win streak. Thought he might be on to something.

Pardon me all to hell about the early season stuff since then you have had zero love for the guy..

I guess some are easily swayed. for someone that early supported him you sure bailed on him fast.. But I guess that is ok..:salute:

[broncogirl7]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

I say BS! I wouldn't trust McDaniels or any other members of the Broncos staff as to the validity of these statements. Hillis is not with the Broncos because McDaniels is an idiot and poor excuse for a head coach. He is ruled by ego and won't take any advise from anyone except Bellichek. mcdaniels, WE ARE NOT THE DENVER PATRIOTS! YOU ARE DESTROYING THE DENVER BRONCOS !!!!

[Gimpygod]

Driven into the ground.

AYE (an old navy term for bull shit)

He made the hard decisions that had to be made. The zbs is now a joke especially when playing a 3-4 team at least ours has been for a decade. Let's use the current mantra "lots of stats no scoring" for what it has been for a decade.

Cutler another jeff george that would never played a contolled passing game looking for the open reciever over throwing into deep coverage.

Marshall a head case one 911 call away from 8 week vacation.

Ts a TE that could not wrap he head around that TE need to make an effort of blocking on the LOS

Hillis not sure the real reason he did not get a real chance with either mike (until last man standing) or Josh. But the only thing in common there we're Hillis, BT and dennison. So you can chose the real reasons.

Do you really think as competitive that Josh is that he would not have used hillis if he was every thing that he is doing in CLE while here. I don't for a minute.



The D seriously want to discuss that it did not need to be scrapped.

So what else did he do to drive this team into the ground other than what is listed above?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

a pack of rabid hyenas are really competitive when trying to get the last scrap of meat, doesn't mean they aren't stupid and make wrong decisions. I believe McDaniels is very competitive and lacks anything even resembling the important thing, ability, required to actually be competitive. PS I think you should bring up Brandon Marshall and Cutler more, it really strengthens your argument and makes you look not crazy at all.

[Gimpygod]

Good post and I do not disagree with much of it.

Hillis did not see the field for much if his rookie season until there was NO one left. He came in and killed it until he was injured. Why did he not play before?

He did not fit into thr bronco mold for a RB 200-215 pounds that mike and Bobby loved.

He was drafted to be a FB and reciever out of the backfield not to be a RB. When he failed to beat out a LB at being a blocking back well doghouse for him.

Enter Josh who retains BT and Dennison. Hillis coming off of IR, guesing that in coaching sessions prior to the draft when he was discussed I'm guessing that BT and RD both suggested getting a RB in the draft over banking all their hopes on the skells they had on the team.

Enter moreno whom had the best rookie RB numbers last year. Why was hillis not given more touches? The only common denominators here are Hillis, Dennison and Bobby (RB coach).

When you look at it logically ther is no other conclusion you can come up with. Is there JOSH is a moron. BT had nothing to do with any of it. :laugh: :laugh:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

please stop saying logically, I have taught logic at the collegiate level and I never really see critical thinking coming from you. As to why Hillis wasn't used during the Shanahan era and that excusing McDaniels not using him. Once a diamond is dug up from the earth, cut, polished and set in the ring only a fool would put in the dirt once again… That means McDaniels is a fool for discarding treasure that has already been exposed as being valuable.

[Gimpygod]

Whoops forgot to add BT was said to be the guy in charge of saying who got the reps in practice for RBs under mike.

I also heard that it remained that way under Josh.

You can make your own conclusions if that is correct. I have.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

please cite source… Because I never heard anything resembling what you just said outside of your own realm of reality.

[frauschieze]

I've come to decide that Hillis simply doesn't show his skills in practice the way he does in games. Shanahan didn't use him at first, McDaniels didn't use him at all, Cleveland didn't see his potential until their starting RB was injured.

So either all those guys stink at player evaluations, or there's something to it. That doesn't take away from anything Hillis does game day. He's a tremendous talent and I was pissed he was traded. I wish he was here. But I still can't figure out why so many here could see something special in him, but the coaches didn't.

Hillis wasn't just adored by fans for his Mile High Salute on his first touchdown. So what gives?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

What a great way to start the week.

:motz:

I apologize to you Slick - I was just passing on what Gary Miller said he was told. He has no reason to lie, nor does the person who told him this. As Hillis is/has been a hot topic on here, thought it was worth posting what Miller said this morning. - I should have KNOWN BETTER, as people will believe what they want.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I've come to decide that Hillis simply doesn't show his skills in practice the way he does in games. Shanahan didn't use him at first, McDaniels didn't use him at all, Cleveland didn't see his potential until their starting RB was injured.

So either all those guys stink at player evaluations, or there's something to it. That doesn't take away from anything Hillis does game day. He's a tremendous talent and I was pissed he was traded. I wish he was here. But I still can't figure out why so many here could see something special in him, but the coaches didn't.

Hillis wasn't just adored by fans for his Mile High Salute on his first touchdown. So what gives?

Great points Frau - and as you pointed out, neither Shanahan or Cleveland's coach did NOT use Hillis until injuries dictated they had to.

[SOCALORADO.]

For you mate. ;)

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/gruden-1.jpg

:beer:

[roomemp]

Hillis is not a Bronco anymore. Don't care.

[Northman]

I've come to decide that Hillis simply doesn't show his skills in practice the way he does in games. Shanahan didn't use him at first, McDaniels didn't use him at all, Cleveland didn't see his potential until their starting RB was injured.

So either all those guys stink at player evaluations, or there's something to it. That doesn't take away from anything Hillis does game day. He's a tremendous talent and I was pissed he was traded. I wish he was here. But I still can't figure out why so many here could see something special in him, but the coaches didn't.

Hillis wasn't just adored by fans for his Mile High Salute on his first touchdown. So what gives?


For me, when Hillis was in it was how he RAN the ball told me all that i needed to know. Watching Hillis plow through 2 and 3 guys to get that extra yard isnt anything new. At least from a fan's perspective. Maybe the coaches forgot what a real RB was because if i can see it from my couch they have to be seeing it on the field. He just has the "it" factor and its severely disappointing that the organization just didnt see it.

[missingnumber7]

perhaps. but it's worth mentioning - for the 872nd time - that hillis didn't get much playing time until five other running backs were injured. it's not like he was a favored son of shanny. just a favored son of broncos fans.

The comment was not meant to say that he was Mikes next Elway or TD or something. But Shanny drafted him in the 7th as a project. He worked when the injured list whittled it down to where he was the only choice we had. Earned him another trip around the block, and when McD was cutting weight, he got rid of Shanny guys to bring in areas he needed to fix. I honestly didn't have a huge issue with the trade, but that was when I thought Quinn might bring something to this team...and really I think it did. I think it pushed Orton to be a better QB, that and Tebow. But like I said...he was a player that fit with the direction shanny was heading, when josh swiched to the man up blocking scheme vs the zbs he didn't see where hillis worked there and had other ideas...thus made him a shanny guy and expendable.

[arapaho2]

Great points Frau - and as you pointed out, neither Shanahan or Cleveland's coach did NOT use Hillis until injuries dictated they had to.


bull....shanny used him alot...as a FB..a position for which he was drafted

as a rook ..any rb...or fb has trouble with the blocking assingments ...blitz pickup...that why most are not full time starters

he came on and showed his stuff as a rb when given the chance

in my opinion had shanny been here another year or had mcd seen the potential.... hillis would have been a household name in nfl fans by now..more so than he is with the browns


as for the browns not playing him until other injuries

hillis started 7 of 8 browns games....and had a td in the one he didnt start...:lol::lol:

[Northman]

The comment was not meant to say that he was Mikes next Elway or TD or something. But Shanny drafted him in the 7th as a project. He worked when the injured list whittled it down to where he was the only choice we had. Earned him another trip around the block, and when McD was cutting weight, he got rid of Shanny guys to bring in areas he needed to fix. I honestly didn't have a huge issue with the trade, but that was when I thought Quinn might bring something to this team...and really I think it did. I think it pushed Orton to be a better QB, that and Tebow. But like I said...he was a player that fit with the direction shanny was heading, when josh swiched to the man up blocking scheme vs the zbs he didn't see where hillis worked there and had other ideas...thus made him a shanny guy and expendable.

The funny thing is, Shanahan got a steal when he drafted Hillis in the 7th. Hillis i believe was one of the top 2 FB's coming out of college that year.

[sanluis]

Hill is Denver's Wes Welker. The Chargers had Wes as a un-drafted FA out of college. Marty let him slip away for nothing. He is doing pretty good ....


All teams miss.


Here is another media hater for you guys ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-winnersandlosers110710


Maybe the hooded sweatshirt was hanging over Josh McDaniels’ eyes the entire 2009 season. Or maybe he never took the time to watch all of the Denver Broncos’ game film from 2008. Or maybe Mike Holmgen and the Cleveland Browns’ new front office is a whole lot smarter than we realized.

[Gimpygod]

I apologize to you Slick - I was just passing on what Gary Miller said he was told. He has no reason to lie, nor does the person who told him this. As Hillis is/has been a hot topic on here, thought it was worth posting what Miller said this morning. - I should have KNOWN BETTER, as people will believe what they want.

Just so you know I love you and the type of person/fan you are, all of my views are based upon severe disappointment in McDaniels and what he has done to my fan hood, not any personal grudge with people here. My dad and I used to spend all week getting pumped for the games and now dad goes out of town on shopping trips with mom instead of watching the game (pops is not much of a shopper if anyone wonders). The team has degraded in any measurable fashion you care to use and all of my guys excluding Eddie Royal and Dumervil were thrown away… Why? Definitely not for improved performance.

Back on topic, Gary Miller does have a very good reason to lie, access. He covers the Denver Broncos and not the Cleveland Brown's therefore he has nothing to gain by supporting Hillis but can bolster his ability to get the story if he sucks up to the current regime. Even if he isn't doing the above, a definite possibility, the person who fed him the information most certainly have a vested interest in giving out false information. "That guy who looks like King Kong playing for the Browns… He was a lazy good for nothing while he was here… We definitely didn't make a mistake getting rid of him… Yes, that's the ticket."

[Northman]

Hill is Denver's Wes Welker. The Chargers had Wes as a un-drafted FA out of college. Marty let him slip away for nothing. He is doing pretty good ....


All teams miss.


Here is another media hater for you guys ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-winnersandlosers110710


This says it all when it comes to McD. Cutler, Hillis, Smith, the list could go on.


You could say McDaniels couldn’t have known, and you’d be right. He couldn’t, because McDaniels never took the time to try and know what Hillis was capable of accomplishing.

[SOCALORADO.]

For me, when Hillis was in it was how he RAN the ball told me all that i needed to know. Watching Hillis plow through 2 and 3 guys to get that extra yard isnt anything new. At least from a fan's perspective. Maybe the coaches forgot what a real RB was because if i can see it from my couch they have to be seeing it on the field. He just has the "it" factor and its severely disappointing that the organization just didnt see it.

Yeah, how are coaches from ANY staff not seeing the simple fact that during actual games where everything matters, that this guy was simply succesful in every aspect of his game.
Fine i get that he isnt the best practice guy, but to trade away a proven, starting calibur player who's had success (even injured! No less!) is just plain stupid.
I think fans noticed he was a solid contributor when he kept ending up in the end zone with the football in his hands. That might have something to do with his approval rating amongst bronco fans.

On a side note. Add into this the fact that the player he was traded for, and one i supported because the current coach traded for him, doesnt even act like he wants to be in DEN!! WTF!?!?!?!
I mean if that doesnt just take the frustration to another level for fans, i dont know what does!!!! We get a punk who acts like hes better than everyone else, but doesnt want to earn anything.
Why isnt he pushing our current QB for the starting spot every week!??!?!?
*Sighs* A F it! It MON, and its just too early in the week for me to even freaking care!

[Northman]

Back on topic, Gary Miller does have a very good reason to lie, access. He covers the Denver Broncos and not the Cleveland Brown's therefore he has nothing to gain by supporting Hillis but can bolster his ability to get the story if he sucks up to the current regime.

Excellent point.

[arapaho2]

Hillis is not a Bronco anymore. Don't care.


you dont care that our rush offense is the leagues absalute worst and we gave away the fb that is the

11th ranked rusher in the league
a fb that has 47 less carries than peterson, yet only 213 less yards...same amount of TDs...same amount of 20+ rushes

a fb that has more yards than
ray rice, LT, mendenhAL, mcoy, t jones,benson

or the fact he has over 256 more yards than our current stable of rbs...and 4 more tds

[jhildebrand]

The coach had just spend a 1st round pick on his "bigger stronger, smarter" players and didn't like the media constantly asking about Hillis. Hillis was causing the media and fans to consistently doubt his choices as to who was in the line-up. Now that he's gone, he thought he would never have to hear about Hillis again. :lol:

McD was on the defensive for the Moreno pick the moment it happened. Even the Bronco flagship station 850 KOA questioned it.


Hmmm...methinks the McDaniels organization might be yet again making stuff up again about ex-players. Their least attractive attribute of many unattractive attributes. Whisper campaigns personally disgust me, and its become a pattern with these guys.

In short, I don't believe it for a second.

I don't believe it either! Until McDaniels addresses the Hillis situation head on with some real honesty and humility it will never go away. He has failed to answer the Hillis situation directly!

Furthermore, let's say he fumbled. He was still virtually a rookie. He had yet to play 16 games. We saw much more patience with Moreno's fumbles in live games.

Hillis played almost exclusively that preseason and looked good. Yet he couldn't even spell Moreno or Buck even with them knicked up :mad:

The Bigger Hillis becomes the worse this is gonna get for McD. I have said it before and will continue to say it-address the situation head on or this thing will end up being what consumes McDaniels.

[Northman]

Yeah, how are coaches from ANY staff not seeing the simple fact that during actual games where everything matters, that this guy was simply succesful in every aspect of his game.
Fine i get that he isnt the best practice guy, but to trade away a proven, starting calibur player who's had success (even injured! No less!) is just plain stupid.
I think fans noticed he was a solid contributor when he kept ending up in the end zone with the football in his hands. That might have something to do with his approval rating amongst bronco fans.

On a side note. Add into this the fact that the player he was traded for, and one i supported because the current coach traded for him, doesnt even act like he wants to be in DEN!! WTF!?!?!?!
I mean if that doesnt just take the frustration to another level for fans, i dont know what does!!!! We get a punk who acts like hes better than everyone else, but doesnt want to earn anything.
Why isnt he pushing our current QB for the starting spot every week!??!?!?
*Sighs* A F it! It MON, and its just too early in the week for me to even freaking care!

Thats something that has been equally as baffling.

The fact that McD gets players and then doesnt give them time to prove themselves shows he is terrible at player evaluating. After Orton puts up a decent first year here McD says Orton will be better the following year when he gets used to the playbook. But.... he then trades for a former first round QB, THEN drafts another first round QB instead of getting and keeping players to help the CURRENT QB. He goes through all the trouble to move up and take Smith who thinks is worth the price of admission and then trades him away. Personally, i didnt care for Smith but im not there at Dove Valley either so i would HOPE he has a better idea and more patience than i do with players. Obviously not.

[jhildebrand]

I've come to decide that Hillis simply doesn't show his skills in practice the way he does in games. Shanahan didn't use him at first, McDaniels didn't use him at all, Cleveland didn't see his potential until their starting RB was injured.

Good point! However, McDaniels came here with the benefit of hindsight knowing exactly what Hillis was capable of and should have given him a legitimate shot during the season to seewhat he could do!

[Dzone]

Hill is Denver's Wes Welker. The Chargers had Wes as a un-drafted FA out of college. Marty let him slip away for nothing. He is doing pretty good ....


All teams miss.


Here is another media hater for you guys ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-winnersandlosers110710
Great article!!!!Thanks!!!...Sure all teams miss, but this HC seems bent on self destruction

[frauschieze]

For me, when Hillis was in it was how he RAN the ball told me all that i needed to know. Watching Hillis plow through 2 and 3 guys to get that extra yard isnt anything new. At least from a fan's perspective. Maybe the coaches forgot what a real RB was because if i can see it from my couch they have to be seeing it on the field. He just has the "it" factor and its severely disappointing that the organization just didnt see it.

But how is what I don't understand. Bobby Turner is one of the best running back coaches period and I know Shanahan respects, values and listens to his opinion. So how did they miss it? How did Cleveland miss it? McDaniels....well....I'm not going there.

I guess I just don't get it. I got a ton of flack when I drafted Hillis in my fantasy league. I look like a freaking genius right now. And I'm only a fan. I sure wish I could talk to these coaches one on one and get an honest answer.

[Northman]

you dont care that our rush offense is the leagues absalute worst and we gave away the fb that is the

11th ranked rusher in the league
a fb that has 47 less carries than peterson, yet only 213 less yards...same amount of TDs...same amount of 20+ rushes

a fb that has more yards than
ray rice, LT, mendenhAL, mcoy, t jones,benson

or the fact he has over 256 more yards than our current stable of rbs...and 4 more tds

No, he just doesnt care that he's not a Bronco anymore. He's entitled to that opinion. Doesnt mean he likes the current state of the team but he's able to move on more than others. I, like you will scrutinize this move for years. Every coach makes mistakes and McD is making his fair share and should be blasted for it like all the rest.

[Northman]

But how is what I don't understand. Bobby Turner is one of the best running back coaches period and I know Shanahan respects, values and listens to his opinion. So how did they miss it? How did Cleveland miss it? McDaniels....well....I'm not going there.

I guess I just don't get it. I got a ton of flack when I drafted Hillis in my fantasy league. I look like a freaking genius right now. And I'm only a fan. I sure wish I could talk to these coaches one on one and get an honest answer.


Hard to say.

But i believe we had Selvin Young, Ryan Torain, and a few others on there at the time and Hillis was supposed to be the FB ala Howard Griffith. The thing is, Griffith never really ran the ball a lot as TD carried most of the load. Maybe that was how Shanny was trying to utilize Hillis. Now, i know Larsen also got time at FB so maybe Shanahan was going to move Hillis to RB after watching what he did later in the year i dont know. But obviously seeing how Torain is playing in Wash i can only speculate that Shanahan believed that Hillis would be good for goallline and solid depth behind the other guys. But i think if you ask most of us we all liked what Hillis had to bring to the table compared to the others. It wouldnt be hard fetched to see that Shanny was losing his touch down the stretch. Seeing what is happening with the McNabb issue in Washington is telling me that maybe Shanny is done and has lost his mojo. Had Hillis been drafted after 98' or 99' it may have been a different story for him in Denver.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I say BS! I wouldn't trust McDaniels or any other members of the Broncos staff as to the validity of these statements. Hillis is not with the Broncos because McDaniels is an idiot and poor excuse for a head coach. He is ruled by ego and won't take any advise from anyone except Bellichek. mcdaniels, WE ARE NOT THE DENVER PATRIOTS! YOU ARE DESTROYING THE DENVER BRONCOS !!!!

ONE MORE TIME - Gary Miller said this did NOT come from ANYONE connected with the Broncos - it came from someone who was on the field daily during practices.

[dogfish]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2229/hilliscantread2.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/hilliscantread2.jpg/)

Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack

[Denver Native (Carol)]

But how is what I don't understand. Bobby Turner is one of the best running back coaches period and I know Shanahan respects, values and listens to his opinion. So how did they miss it? How did Cleveland miss it? McDaniels....well....I'm not going there.

I guess I just don't get it. I got a ton of flack when I drafted Hillis in my fantasy league. I look like a freaking genius right now. And I'm only a fan. I sure wish I could talk to these coaches one on one and get an honest answer.

AND, as I posted a long time ago, Vic Lombardi stated that it was TURNER, not MCDANIELS, who determined which RB's would be on the field DURING THE GAMES. And, of course, when I posted that, MANY did not want to believe that either.

[nevcraw]

Some have a real short memory when it comes to mikes short comings..

He was drafted to be a Blocking Back and could not beat out a KB at that job. He was praised by mike after the draft saying he had good hands and could be used out of the back field for that.

I remember hearing mikey tell everyone this kid has the softest hands on the team IIRC it was some time in the preseason or training camp. But could have been earlier in the year in the otas.


yet after a great game against GB in the preseason was did not catch a ball till game 9 IIRC oh wait here are the game logs.


Preseason Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
1 08/09 @ HOU L 16-19 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
2 08/16 DAL W 23-13 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 0 0.0 0 0 -- --
3 08/22 GB L 24-27 1 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 1 14 14.0 14 0 -- --
4 08/29 @ ARI W 28-14 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
TOTAL 3 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 2 14 7.0 14 0 0 0

Regular Season Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 0 3 14 4.7 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
5 10/05 TB W 16-13 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
6 10/12 JAC L 17-24 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
7 10/20 @ NE L 7-41 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
8 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
9 11/02 MIA L 17-26 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- 7 116 16.6 47 1 -- --
10 11/06 @ CLE W 34-30 1 0 8 24 3.0 10 0 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
11 11/16 @ ATL W 24-20 1 1 10 44 4.4 12 2 3 26 8.7 14 0 -- --
12 11/23 OAK L 10-31 1 1 17 74 4.4 13 1 2 22 11.0 16 0 -- --
13 11/30 @ NYJ W 34-17 1 1 22 129 5.9 19 1 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
14 12/07 KC W 24-17 1 1 8 58 7.3 18T 1 1 11 11.0 11 0 -- --
TOTAL 12 6 68 343 5.0 19 5 14 179 12.8 47 1 0 0


.


So lets dispense with the bull shit about how great mike and BT thought he was.. until the last RB fell to IR then he saved the season pretty much for mikey. Until he was cut down also while making an incredible catch on the sideline.

I loved the kid and was one of the very first on here that was beating his drum. but for naught.

The whole Hillis didn't mean squat to Shanny argument is sooo lame.. like really!

It is not out of the relm that Hillis needed some time to learn the the system. He was in fact a ROOKIE and a late rounder at that. Just because he was not annointed the king on day one did not mean his potential and assets were not reconized. and BTW - all that really matters was once he was inserted in the RB role - all he did was shine until he got injured on the the acrobatic(now rooutine for him) catch against KC. --what, MCD can't break down film?

[Ravage!!!]

But how is what I don't understand. Bobby Turner is one of the best running back coaches period and I know Shanahan respects, values and listens to his opinion. So how did they miss it? How did Cleveland miss it? McDaniels....well....I'm not going there.

I guess I just don't get it. I got a ton of flack when I drafted Hillis in my fantasy league. I look like a freaking genius right now. And I'm only a fan. I sure wish I could talk to these coaches one on one and get an honest answer.

Well.. Shanahan drafted him as a FB and used in in the starting lineup, from day one, as the starting FB. How many carries would he get as the TB, during practice, would Hillis get to show what he could do as a runner?

In Arkansas, the fans LOVED Hillis and knew what he could do. But he was on the same team as McFadden and Felix Jones. The fact that he was able to show his stuff there, is pretty impressive. But that wasn't enough to give him enough carries to be looked at as a TB.

Cleveland was using him pretty heavily in the run game, in pre-season. But they had a rookie that was a pretty big favorite to have the starting role after HE earned it the previous season. Hard to imagine that he wouldn't be giving the starting "role" .....

But McD.... just like Cleveland.... had tape. Had seen what he could do. WE THE FANS, could see what he could do. Still baffeling that he INSISTED on using Lamont Jordan.... and I think its BECAUSE he knew that NO ONE would clamor for Lamont Jordon to be the starter over Moreno. However, if he started Hillis and he did as we ALL know he would do if given the starting chance.... fans and media would be asking about HIM starting. It was a decision to keep away the controversy, and NOT one that was best for the team. :beer:

[Dzone]

All I can say is that Mcdaniels has had 2 weeks to get ready for A KC team that just had to travel to Oakland. If he blows this game, the heat is going to be turned way way up, as it should be...Of course I will be pulling for a win this Sunday. Damn, please just get a win against KC to cheer up the fan base. But if he loses, he will join wade phillips as coaches deserving to be fired

[frauschieze]

ONE MORE TIME - Gary Miller said this did NOT come from ANYONE connected with the Broncos - it came from someone who was on the field daily during practices.

If they were on the field daily during practices, then they are/were connected to the Broncos. That's pretty simple.


AND, as I posted a long time ago, Vic Lombardi stated that it was TURNER, not MCDANIELS, who determined which RB's would be on the field DURING THE GAMES. And, of course, when I posted that, MANY did not want to believe that either.

McDaniels is still the head coach and therefore responsible. He micromanages every aspect of the team. Why should we believe that he actually let another coach make the entirety of a decision as significant as that? And it still doesn't excuse him from deficient player evaluation, as he had game film on Hillis and from my understanding, he spent a considerable amount of time reviewing that film after he first got the coaching job.

[Dzone]

Well..

In Arkansas, the fans LOVED Hillis and knew what he could do. But he was on the same team as McFadden and Felix Jones. The fact that he was able to show his stuff there, is pretty impressive. But that wasn't enough to give him enough carries to be looked at as a TB.
Who would we rather have? Hillis, Jones or Mcfadden? I would take Hillis in a heartbeat...

[Lonestar]

by Mike
-thrashed a sturdy oline
- attempted to bandaid to fix dline
-new offensive scheme with same short falls of ols scheme.
-constant personalitly conflicts with coaches and players.
trading away good players and doing somewere between jack and shit with what he gets for them
-pissing away draft choices.
-consistently getting asses handed to them at home by division rivals
-a team that shows no growth development and often a lack of prep on game day



Oh this is going to be fun.

oline trashed

hamilton could not handle pass protect since 06 when we went to pocket passing. Was constantly pushed back into the pocket from day one of it.

casey much the same just got old to fast. or maybe exposed once Kuper left the game next to him.

Right now that is the only thing Josh has changed.

Is Josh responsible for Kuper Clady and Harris not playing back to 08 levels after off season surgery.

Did any one think that Clady would be back at 100% after a few months for an injury that normally takes a full year to heal fully. IMO he is remarkable for even being on the field but he is no way playing at his normal high level.

Harris IMHO he should have been shit canned last year, he has never been on the field for more than 50% of his elgible games since he came to DEN mostly due to injuries. (I thought beadles was drafted as his replacement)

Kuper a good ORG that was rewarded with a new contract but still not playing at his normal level after the ankle issues.

TWO rookies playing one at OC that is perhaps that hardest spot to learn. the other that has been moved around to every spot on the OLINE but center this year.

Just how is trashed fit into this scenario.

DLine other than drafting rookies to fix that issue what else should he have doe this year but bring in rentals. did you really expect rookies to start this year on the DLINE? The accepted rule of thumb is DL rookies are not starters till year 3. Thomas is just now starting to show some life.

BTW IIRC Ayers was drafted for the front 7 last year and was well on the way to a damned fine season this year till he broke a bone in his foot.

SO what would you have really done?

New offensive scheme ..

ALmost have to agree with this but the passing game is way better than anyone expected, ANYONE.

the running game I'm not happy with but believe it will get better during the year. as the players get more reps in it BARRING more injuries.

I have always believed in a strong running game but the old zbs with the light weight oline flat sucked in the redzone and most 3rd and short situations. I doubt that you can rebut that statement.

the ONLY way to win consistently is have a bigger oline that can move the pile when they have to. Our RZ issues have been ongoing since TD, John and Zim Etal left after the SBs. So not sure why your up in arms after 1.5 years trying to sort out the PBS.

IMHO we are no worse than before and will get better as the players get to know each others names.

Personality conflicts. yep got much worse since mikey left. instead of putting someone in the dog house and then cutting him after the season Josh takes the bull by the horns and gets it done right away. Creating another roster spot for someone that WANTS to be here.

Pissing away draft choices this is rich.


2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida
2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota
2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona
2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State
2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama
2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia
2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa
2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan by default after he came back from TB as a FA
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State
1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State
1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi
1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State
1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming
1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)

just how many of them made it through to a second DEN contract (12) and how many of them were silently cut after there 2nd or 3rd TC.


Lets no go there with wasted picks.


58 Alexander, Kevin LB 6-4 265 23 R Clemson
68 Beadles, Zane OL 6-4 305 23 R Utah
32 Cox, Perrish CB 6-0 198 23 R Oklahoma State
87 Decker, Eric WR 6-3 220 23 R Minnesota
34 McCarthy, Kyle S 6-1 210 24 R Notre Dame
69 Olsen, Eric OL 6-3 305 22 R Notre Dame
15 Tebow, Tim QB 6-3 245 23 R Florida
88 Thomas, Demaryius WR 6-3 229 22 R Georgia Tech
22 Thompson, Syd'Quan CB 5-9 191 23 R California
41 Vaughn, Cassius CB 5-11 195 23 R Mississippi
50 Walton, J.D. OL 6-3 305 23 R Baylor
75 Clark, Chris OL 6-5 315 25 1 Southern Mississippi
64 Daniels, Stanley OL 6-4 320 25 1 Washington
56 Ayers, Robert LB 6-3 274 25 2 Tennessee
30 Bruton, David S 6-2 211 23 2 Notre Dame
4 Colquitt, Britton P 6-3 205 25 2 Tennessee
82 Gronkowski, Dan TE 6-5 255 25 2 Maryland
31 McBath, Darcel S 6-1 198 25 2 Texas Tech
27 Moreno, Knowshon RB 5-11 210 23 2 Georgia
81 Quinn, Richard TE 6-4 255 24 2 North Carolina

I suspect that most of these guys will be around past the 3rd TC and being productive.

Getting asses handed to them. need I remind you.



R
egular Season 2008

Week 1
Thu, Sep 04 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver

DEN 41 @ OAK 14 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 300 Yds OAK Justin Fargas: 97 Yds DEN Eddie Royal: 146 Yds

Week 2
Sun, Sep 14 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
SD 38 @ DEN 39 Final SD Philip Rivers: 377 Yds DEN Selvin Young: 78 Yds DEN Brandon Marshall: 166 Yds


This was the quick whistle game the ref never lived down.

Week 3
Sun, Sep 21 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
NO 32 @ DEN 34 Final NO Drew Brees: 421 Yds NO Reggie Bush: 73 Yds DEN Brandon Marshall: 155 Yds

Week 4
Sun, Sep 28 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
DEN 19 @ KC 33 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 361 Yds KC Larry Johnson: 198 Yds DEN Eddie Royal: 104 Yds

Week 5
Sun, Oct 05 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
TB 13 @ DEN 16 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 227 Yds TB Warrick Dunn: 74 Yds DEN Tony Scheffler: 65 Yds

Week 6
Sun, Oct 12 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
JAC 24 @ DEN 17 Final JAC David Garrard: 276 Yds JAC Maurice Jones-Drew: 125 Yds DEN Brandon Marshall: 98 Yds

Week 7

Mon, Oct 20 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
DEN 7 @ NE 41 Final NE Matt Cassel: 185 Yds NE Sammy Morris: 138 Yds DEN Brandon Marshall: 77 Yds

Week 9
Sun, Nov 02 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
MIA 26 @ DEN 17 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 307 Yds MIA Ronnie Brown: 59 Yds DEN Peyton Hillis: 116 Yds

Week 10
Thu, Nov 06 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
DEN 34 @ CLE 30 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 447 Yds DEN Ryan Torain: 68 Yds DEN Eddie Royal: 164 Yds

Week 11
Thu, Nov 13 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
DEN 24 @ ATL 20 Final ATL Matt Ryan: 250 Yds ATL Michael Turner: 81 Yds ATL Roddy White: 102 Yds

Week 12
Thu, Nov 20 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
OAK 31 @ DEN 10 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 204 Yds OAK Justin Fargas: 107 Yds OAK Ashley Lelie: 92 Yds

Week 14
Sun, Dec 07 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
KC 17 @ DEN 24 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 286 Yds DEN Peyton Hillis: 58 Yds KC Dwayne Bowe: 96 Yds

Week 15

Sun, Dec 14 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
DEN 10 @ CAR 30 Final CAR Jake Delhomme: 253 Yds CAR DeAngelo Williams: 88 Yds CAR Steve Smith: 165 Yds

Sun, Dec 21 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
BUF 30 @ DEN 23 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 359 Yds DEN Eddie Royal: 71 Yds DEN Brandon Marshall: 129 Yds

Week 17
Sun, Dec 28 Time (ET) Top Passer Top Rusher Top Receiver
DEN 21 @ SD 52 Final DEN Jay Cutler: 316 Yds SD Darren Sproles: 115 Yds DEN Eddie Royal: 76 Yds

no growth I guess you see one thing and I see another. ok to agree to disagree.

[Northman]

AND, as I posted a long time ago, Vic Lombardi stated that it was TURNER, not MCDANIELS, who determined which RB's would be on the field DURING THE GAMES. And, of course, when I posted that, MANY did not want to believe that either.

I dont believe it because there are too many holes in that assumption by Lombardi. If you can find that article again i would like to read it again. I believe he was the only one too mention that. McDaniels has control over everything this team does from offense, defense, and ST's. This is why he and Nolan butted heads towards the end of last year. McDaniels is also the guy who makes the gameplan for gameday and he chooses which players will execute it that day so if Moreno was playing it was because McD wanted him to play. Turner takes orders from McD just like all the rest. There's no way in hell that he would allow another coach to have the final say.

[Northman]

He micromanages every aspect of the team. Why should we believe that he actually let another coach make the entirety of a decision as significant as that?

Ding ding ding! Thank you. :lol:

[Mike]

Bunch of orange colored glasses crap.

You are right. We see things differently...no need to argue with you any further on it, it won't alter your opinion, so why waste the time?

[Jake Klug]

Well, I guess we can all feel safe knowing that Moreno doesnt put the ball on the ground in practice.

BTW, speaking of which, its not like Moreno hasnt put the ball on the ground in addition to not being very good.

[Dreadnought]

Hard to say.

But i believe we had Selvin Young, Ryan Torain, and a few others on there at the time and Hillis was supposed to be the FB ala Howard Griffith. The thing is, Griffith never really ran the ball a lot as TD carried most of the load. Maybe that was how Shanny was trying to utilize Hillis. Now, i know Larsen also got time at FB so maybe Shanahan was going to move Hillis to RB after watching what he did later in the year i dont know. But obviously seeing how Torain is playing in Wash i can only speculate that Shanahan believed that Hillis would be good for goallline and solid depth behind the other guys. But i think if you ask most of us we all liked what Hillis had to bring to the table compared to the others. It wouldnt be hard fetched to see that Shanny was losing his touch down the stretch. Seeing what is happening with the McNabb issue in Washington is telling me that maybe Shanny is done and has lost his mojo. Had Hillis been drafted after 98' or 99' it may have been a different story for him in Denver.

I think thre was even the possibility of bringing back the FB as a legit RB more often, rather than as a mere blocker. This is most often how the position was played until @ 20 years ago. FB and HB complimented each other, both in the game as ball carriers but with different skill sets. One disadvantage of the more modern 1 back set is that you have either the guy with inside power or the guy with breakaway outside speed in the game at one time (barring freaks of nature like Chris Johnson and TD who did it all). Hillis is a true throwback in that regard

[Ravage!!!]

Who would we rather have? Hillis, Jones or Mcfadden? I would take Hillis in a heartbeat...

I'm not going to take anything away from the other two. Hillis is a beast, but the other two guys are pretty damned good. McFadden is finally starting to show his worth.. and thats paralleling a team that is finally showing up to play. Felix was basically taking over the starting role in a full back-field, but the Dallas team has just flat out quit.

I LOVE Hillis. Been a favorite since he was drafted, and he hasn't shown a single thing, yet, to make me dislike him. He's a stud.

[Lonestar]

I dont believe it because there are too many holes in that assumption by Lombardi. If you can find that article again i would like to read it again. I believe he was the only one too mention that. McDaniels has control over everything this team does from offense, defense, and ST's. This is why he and Nolan butted heads towards the end of last year. McDaniels is also the guy who makes the gameplan for gameday and he chooses which players will execute it that day so if Moreno was playing it was because McD wanted him to play. Turner takes orders from McD just like all the rest. There's no way in hell that he would allow another coach to have the final say.

I read it also so that is why I posted what I did. BT told mike who was ready (knew the game plan) to get reps in practice and therefore who got to play on Sunday.

I was lead to believe that Josh was told to be hands off with BT and RD as Pat liked them and Josh did that our of respect for him and Dennison. Til it seemed like they were over their heads in teaching PBS. By then it was to late to make changes.

I know it is easier to believe that Josh is all at fault here but It make logical sense to me after seeing what has went down. Over the past decade.

[arapaho2]

I.

I know it is easier to believe that Josh is all at fault here but It make logical sense to me after seeing what has went down. Over the past decade.



yeah we see what your thinking...and its funny:lol::lol:

in your opinion...shanny was at fault for every aspect of the game...being the controll freak he was, haveing the final say that he did over all personal and coaching

but its stupid for us to think josh is to blame for everything...despite being in controll of all personel, coaches and schemes:lol:

[Northman]

I was lead to believe that Josh was told to be hands off with BT and RD as Pat liked them and Josh did that our of respect for him and Dennison. Til it seemed like they were over their heads in teaching PBS. By then it was to late to make changes.

Please put up the article again. I want to see where you are getting this feeling from. This is the first time ive heard that Pat REALLY liked them and they were hands off. :lol:

Be that as it may. So then what your also saying is that Turner was to blame under Shanahan too then. So really, unlike what you have posted it wasnt all Shanahan's fault for what happened while he was here. You cant make up your mind without contradicting yourself Jr. You put all the onus on Shanahan for the failures down the stretch but then scapegoat everyone under the sun under McDaniels. Amazing.


I know it is easier to believe that Josh is all at fault here but It make logical sense to me after seeing what has went down. Over the past decade.He has just as much power as Shanahan had so when it comes down to it he is the guy responsible just like Shanahan was. He was brought in too win and he hasnt produced.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If they were on the field daily during practices, then they are/were connected to the Broncos. That's pretty simple.

I guess one could consider a sports writer, or media person, connected to the Broncos, however, I don't, they are not part of the Broncos' organization. Some of the sportswriters for the Denver Post also write articles in regards to the Nuggets, Rockies, Avs, CU football, etc. All of the sportscasters on tv here report on all of the local teams.

[Lonestar]

For me, when Hillis was in it was how he RAN the ball told me all that i needed to know. Watching Hillis plow through 2 and 3 guys to get that extra yard isnt anything new. At least from a fan's perspective. Maybe the coaches forgot what a real RB was because if i can see it from my couch they have to be seeing it on the field. He just has the "it" factor and its severely disappointing that the organization just didnt see it.

But be fair about it he was not used till they had to under mikey either and Im not all that sure with BT back and the other rbs back from IR that he would have played all that much if mike had not been fired.

I do not know but I have always been hillis's fan. I like big backs 225+ have never like mini backs under 220 since TD.

Ill take that back I loved Barry Sanders and thought our Q kid could have been good also but not was a primary RB.

[Northman]

But be fair about it he was not used till they had to under mikey either and Im not all that sure with BT back and the other rbs back from IR that he would have played all that much if mike had not been fired.



Thats irrelevant to her question.

[Lonestar]

The comment was not meant to say that he was Mikes next Elway or TD or something. But Shanny drafted him in the 7th as a project. He worked when the injured list whittled it down to where he was the only choice we had. Earned him another trip around the block, and when McD was cutting weight, he got rid of Shanny guys to bring in areas he needed to fix. I honestly didn't have a huge issue with the trade, but that was when I thought Quinn might bring something to this team...and really I think it did. I think it pushed Orton to be a better QB, that and Tebow. But like I said...he was a player that fit with the direction shanny was heading, when josh swiched to the man up blocking scheme vs the zbs he didn't see where hillis worked there and had other ideas...thus made him a shanny guy and expendable.


good post
but mike drafted him as a Blocking back nothing more than a Griffin type player that would block and catch a few passes while in the game and I would guess like Griffin get a few quick hand offs as a change up . He mentions when he drafted him that he had great hands and then later in the year (otas?) said he had the best hands on the team.



The funny thing is, Shanahan got a steal when he drafted Hillis in the 7th. Hillis i believe was one of the top 2 FB's coming out of college that year.

I was hoping to see him earlier after seeing his combine numbers also Tned IIRC posted something early on about him only being supplanted by the Jones and Mcfadden IIRC as RBs at Ark as he was doing well as a RB until the burst on the scene. Hard to give him hand off if you have those
studs on the field.

[jhildebrand]

The reason the Hillis situation wont go away is it highlights the three biggest McDaniels faults:

1. Roster Management
2. Player Evaluation
3. Personality conflict resolution

McDaniels has shown he is piss poor at roster management. He came in here and instantly drafted the "sexy" O positions. Everybody knew going into 09 the D was the problem. McD was lauded for hiring Nolan and that move paid dividends. It isn't hindsight being 20/20 to say he should have drafted D line and LB's. I don't care about Cutler so let's not even go there.

Then there is the concern that he has drafted multiple times in just two drafts in the same position and or traded for the same: RB (drafted Moreno traded for Maroney), CB (five picks invested in what amounts to 2 DB's on the roster-used a 1 and 2 on Alph and he isn't here, a pick on Cox, a pick and traded pick to get Syd), Multiple picks at WR, multiple picks on Tebow after using picks and players to get both Quinn and Orton! Remember, that is in just two draft years.

Back to Hillis. The reason roster management looks poor aside from what I mentioned above is it is a hard case to argue the B Quinn trade was anything close to necessary when Chris Simms was only needed for one game last season YET our running game was a problem for MOST OF LAST SEASON.

Now onto player evaluation-it is clear Josh has a major weakness in talent evaluation when shipping off Scheffler for a pick and then trading the CB that you used a 1 and 2 on for a 7th rd TE from the team you traded Scheffler to because you need a pass catching TE. Seems like a lot of brain damage to me! There are plenty of examples that beg the question of McDaniels ability to evaluate talent. Banks in his most recent SI article is spot on re HIllis and McD.

Finally, player conflict resolution. McD said all the right things about Hillis at the end of the season but it was clear it was all just coachspeak. Something happened-as it had with Marshall, Cutler and Scheffler-and this one managed to stay underwraps. Which is precisely why this one situation wont go away. The longer McDaniels insists on burying this like Watergate and treating the media and fans like idiots regarding this situation the worse this will look.

The best thing he can do is be honest and direct at the first opportunity re Hillis and put it to bed now.

[Lonestar]

But how is what I don't understand. Bobby Turner is one of the best running back coaches period and I know Shanahan respects, values and listens to his opinion. So how did they miss it? How did Cleveland miss it? McDaniels....well....I'm not going there.

I guess I just don't get it. I got a ton of flack when I drafted Hillis in my fantasy league. I look like a freaking genius right now. And I'm only a fan. I sure wish I could talk to these coaches one on one and get an honest answer.


good post I'm sorry you'll take a bunch of crap for doing so.


Hard to say.

But i believe we had Selvin Young, Ryan Torain, and a few others on there at the time and Hillis was supposed to be the FB ala Howard Griffith. The thing is, Griffith never really ran the ball a lot as TD carried most of the load. Maybe that was how Shanny was trying to utilize Hillis. Now, i know Larsen also got time at FB so maybe Shanahan was going to move Hillis to RB after watching what he did later in the year i dont know. But obviously seeing how Torain is playing in Wash i can only speculate that Shanahan believed that Hillis would be good for goallline and solid depth behind the other guys. But i think if you ask most of us we all liked what Hillis had to bring to the table compared to the others. It wouldnt be hard fetched to see that Shanny was losing his touch down the stretch. Seeing what is happening with the McNabb issue in Washington is telling me that maybe Shanny is done and has lost his mojo. Had Hillis been drafted after 98' or 99' it may have been a different story for him in Denver.

I doubt seriously that mike had any intention of going with a BIG back unless he had to totally out of character for him. but then he did draft torain also so hell not sure what was going on with him.


I think thre was even the possibility of bringing back the FB as a legit RB more often, rather than as a mere blocker. This is most often how the position was played until @ 20 years ago. FB and HB complimented each other, both in the game as ball carriers but with different skill sets. One disadvantage of the more modern 1 back set is that you have either the guy with inside power or the guy with breakaway outside speed in the game at one time (barring freaks of nature like Chris Johnson and TD who did it all). Hillis is a true throwback in that regard

I'm pretty sure that it would not be used in the spread offense we are going to here.


Please put up the article again. I want to see where you are getting this feeling from. This is the first time ive heard that Pat REALLY liked them and they were hands off. :lol:

Be that as it may. So then what your also saying is that Turner was to blame under Shanahan too then. So really, unlike what you have posted it wasnt all Shanahan's fault for what happened while he was here. You cant make up your mind without contradicting yourself Jr. You put all the onus on Shanahan for the failures down the stretch but then scapegoat everyone under the sun under McDaniels. Amazing.

He has just as much power as Shanahan had so when it comes down to it he is the guy responsible just like Shanahan was. He was brought in too win and he hasnt produced.


the article is out there somewhere if it is important to you go find it. I know what I saw and Carol who should never be questioned saw it also.


As for changing my stance on mikey I think he trusted BT totally since his finds in the earlier drafts and making TD and almost everyone else look great why would he not hand that off to him.

When you think logically about it it make perfect sense.

Yep Josh was brought into win.. But he was also brought in to CHANGE us to the NE model spread offense and 3-4 D something y'all can't wrap your head around yet. When you do you will see there is a plan and it is seeded and ready to come to fruition.

He has brought in high character guys save a couple of rookies which have a real high upside and IF they do not work out it is not like blowing a half years cap on a guy like gardener or carter. he has gotten rid of locker room cancers, talented but still cancers he gave two of them a chance to grow into the scheme and they failed to show up to do so.

Hillis WTFK for sure what happened there, is he responsible? absolutely because he is the boss. But since we really do not know for sure what happened I'll give him a pass for allowing Hillis to play elsewhere.

[TXBRONC]

The reason the Hillis situation wont go away is it highlights the three biggest McDaniels faults:

1. Roster Management
2. Player Evaluation
3. Personality conflict resolution

McDaniels has shown he is piss poor at roster management. He came in here and instantly drafted the "sexy" O positions. Everybody knew going into 09 the D was the problem. McD was lauded for hiring Nolan and that move paid dividends. It isn't hindsight being 20/20 to say he should have drafted D line and LB's. I don't care about Cutler so let's not even go there.

Then there is the concern that he has drafted multiple times in just two drafts in the same position and or traded for the same: RB (drafted Moreno traded for Maroney), CB (five picks invested in what amounts to 2 DB's on the roster-used a 1 and 2 on Alph and he isn't here, a pick on Cox, a pick and traded pick to get Syd), Multiple picks at WR, multiple picks on Tebow after using picks and players to get both Quinn and Orton! Remember, that is in just two draft years.

Back to Hillis. The reason roster management looks poor aside from what I mentioned above is it is a hard case to argue the B Quinn trade was anything close to necessary when Chris Simms was only needed for one game last season YET our running game was a problem for MOST OF LAST SEASON.

Now onto player evaluation-it is clear Josh has a major weakness in talent evaluation when shipping off Scheffler for a pick and then trading the CB that you used a 1 and 2 on for a 7th rd TE from the team you traded Scheffler to because you need a pass catching TE. Seems like a lot of brain damage to me! There are plenty of examples that beg the question of McDaniels ability to evaluate talent. Banks in his most recent SI article is spot on re HIllis and McD.

Finally, player conflict resolution. McD said all the right things about Hillis at the end of the season but it was clear it was all just coachspeak. Something happened-as it had with Marshall, Cutler and Scheffler-and this one managed to stay underwraps. Which is precisely why this one situation wont go away. The longer McDaniels insists on burying this like Watergate and treating the media and fans like idiots regarding this situation the worse this will look.

The best thing he can do is be honest and direct at the first opportunity re Hillis and put it to bed now.

The drafting Moreno didn't bother me and the Ayers pick was right were it he was expected to go. But to give a first round pick for Smith was really bad move especially in light of the fact he knew he needed a nose tackle for his 3-4 defense and didn't bother to take one. As it was said he made some rookie mistakes.

I agree that McDaniels conflict resolution skills seem to be weak imo.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2010/10/peyton_hillis_is_productive_bu.html

Peyton Hillis is productive, but relying on him counterproductive to Cleveland Browns: Bud Shaw's Sports Spin

Peyton Hillis is fun to watch.

But think of offense in the NFL as an evolutionary chart.

The modern form is Peyton Manning -- yes, the other Peyton -- standing erect in the pocket looking downfield to launch a surgical strike.

Hillis? He's a knuckle dragger from the left side of the chart.

Don't believe in evolution?

OK, in medical terms, Hillis is a home remedy for what ails the Browns on that side of the ball. What they need to finally join the league's hale and hearty is a cure.

Look at the names introduced into the conversation after his 144 yards rushing against Baltimore. Mike Alstott. Larry Csonka. John Riggins.

Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan even mentioned Earl Campbell "when he was running with those tear-away jerseys."

(Earl Campbell? Bartender, since I'm not driving, I'll have whatever Mr. Ryan is drinking.)

That's high praise. Those were punishing backs, feared by opponents for good reason.

They also share something else that's hard to ignore: Yesteryear.

So much of the NFL in 2010 is about air force. Hillis has good hands, just not the speed and moves to make people miss.

Browns All-Pro tackle Joe Thomas said this week he can't believe a team let Hillis go. I can. In this era, everybody is looking to stretch the field. They want playmakers, home run hitters.

I can see why the Broncos would want to go in a different direction. (The Browns drafted Montario Hardesty for a similar reason.) I just can't believe the Broncos let Hillis go for Brady Quinn and then drafted Florida quarterback Tim Tebow.

Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll said he'll keep running Hillis as long as he's effective.

We'll see. That's what the Browns did with Jerome Harrison in the final month of last season. Harrison has since been downgraded to "meh."

Eric Mangini and Daboll eventually will get judged on how the offense evolves. A big part of that is the grooming of Mangini's hand-picked wide receiver tandem, Mohamed Massaquoi and Brian Robiskie.

It's not a good sign for Mangini in his second season that the Browns look respectable only when handing the ball off, no matter how much fun it is to watch Hillis steamrollering tacklers.

Don't get me wrong. There's a lot to like about Hillis. He's been the Browns' most productive option.

They just won't be a serious player in the NFL until he's not.

[Lonestar]

The reason the Hillis situation wont go away is it highlights the three biggest McDaniels faults:

1. Roster Management
2. Player Evaluation
3. Personality conflict resolution

McDaniels has shown he is piss poor at roster management. He came in here and instantly drafted the "sexy" O positions. Everybody knew going into 09 the D was the problem. McD was lauded for hiring Nolan and that move paid dividends. It isn't hindsight being 20/20 to say he should have drafted D line and LB's. I don't care about Cutler so let's not even go there.

Then there is the concern that he has drafted multiple times in just two drafts in the same position and or traded for the same: RB (drafted Moreno traded for Maroney), CB (five picks invested in what amounts to 2 DB's on the roster-used a 1 and 2 on Alph and he isn't here, a pick on Cox, a pick and traded pick to get Syd), Multiple picks at WR, multiple picks on Tebow after using picks and players to get both Quinn and Orton! Remember, that is in just two draft years.

Back to Hillis. The reason roster management looks poor aside from what I mentioned above is it is a hard case to argue the B Quinn trade was anything close to necessary when Chris Simms was only needed for one game last season YET our running game was a problem for MOST OF LAST SEASON.

Now onto player evaluation-it is clear Josh has a major weakness in talent evaluation when shipping off Scheffler for a pick and then trading the CB that you used a 1 and 2 on for a 7th rd TE from the team you traded Scheffler to because you need a pass catching TE. Seems like a lot of brain damage to me! There are plenty of examples that beg the question of McDaniels ability to evaluate talent. Banks in his most recent SI article is spot on re HIllis and McD.

Finally, player conflict resolution. McD said all the right things about Hillis at the end of the season but it was clear it was all just coach speak. Something happened-as it had with Marshall, Cutler and Scheffler-and this one managed to stay under wraps. Which is precisely why this one situation wont go away. The longer McDaniels insists on burying this like Watergate and treating the media and fans like idiots regarding this situation the worse this will look.

The best thing he can do is be honest and direct at the first opportunity re Hillis and put it to bed now.

instantly drafted sexy OLOINE

2009 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
1 18 Robert Ayers LB Tennessee
2 37 Alphonso Smith DB Wake Forest
2 48 Darcel McBath DB Texas Tech
2 64 Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
4 114 David Bruton DB Notre Dame
4 132 Seth Olsen G Iowa
5 141 Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
6 174 Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
7 225 Blake Schlueter C Texas Christian

did I miss something?

as for dline I thought so also. But truly beleive that Nolan was happy with fields as his NT and thought he could make a NT out of baker DE out of Thomas maybe crowder. since the following guys were all ready gone. when it came our turn.
3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State Kansas City Chiefs
4 Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest Seattle Seahawks
5 Mark Sanchez QB USC New York Jets
6 Andre Smith T Alabama Cincinnati Bengals
7 Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Maryland Oakland Raiders
8 Eugene Monroe T Virginia Jacksonville Jaguars
9 B.J. Raji NT Boston College Green Bay Packers
10 Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech San Francisco 49ers
11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State Buffalo Bills.

and then these were gone after Moreno.

13 Brian Orakpo DE Texas Washington Redskins
14 Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio State New Orleans Saints
15 Brian Cushing LB USC Houston Texans
16 Larry English DE Northern Illinois San Diego Chargers

just maybe there was no one that NOLAN really wanted more than Ayers.

Since none of us were in the war room and know how Josh, Xman and Nolan ranked those players it will forever be a bone of contention for you to gnaw on.

[dogfish]

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2010/10/peyton_hillis_is_productive_bu.html

Peyton Hillis is productive, but relying on him counterproductive to Cleveland Browns: Bud Shaw's Sports Spin

Peyton Hillis is fun to watch.

But think of offense in the NFL as an evolutionary chart.

The modern form is Peyton Manning -- yes, the other Peyton -- standing erect in the pocket looking downfield to launch a surgical strike.

Hillis? He's a knuckle dragger from the left side of the chart.

Don't believe in evolution?

OK, in medical terms, Hillis is a home remedy for what ails the Browns on that side of the ball. What they need to finally join the league's hale and hearty is a cure.

Look at the names introduced into the conversation after his 144 yards rushing against Baltimore. Mike Alstott. Larry Csonka. John Riggins.

Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan even mentioned Earl Campbell "when he was running with those tear-away jerseys."

(Earl Campbell? Bartender, since I'm not driving, I'll have whatever Mr. Ryan is drinking.)

That's high praise. Those were punishing backs, feared by opponents for good reason.

They also share something else that's hard to ignore: Yesteryear.

So much of the NFL in 2010 is about air force. Hillis has good hands, just not the speed and moves to make people miss.

Browns All-Pro tackle Joe Thomas said this week he can't believe a team let Hillis go. I can. In this era, everybody is looking to stretch the field. They want playmakers, home run hitters.

I can see why the Broncos would want to go in a different direction. (The Browns drafted Montario Hardesty for a similar reason.) I just can't believe the Broncos let Hillis go for Brady Quinn and then drafted Florida quarterback Tim Tebow.

Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll said he'll keep running Hillis as long as he's effective.

We'll see. That's what the Browns did with Jerome Harrison in the final month of last season. Harrison has since been downgraded to "meh."

Eric Mangini and Daboll eventually will get judged on how the offense evolves. A big part of that is the grooming of Mangini's hand-picked wide receiver tandem, Mohamed Massaquoi and Brian Robiskie.

It's not a good sign for Mangini in his second season that the Browns look respectable only when handing the ball off, no matter how much fun it is to watch Hillis steamrollering tacklers.

Don't get me wrong. There's a lot to like about Hillis. He's been the Browns' most productive option.

They just won't be a serious player in the NFL until he's not.

what a dumbass excuse for a sportswriter. . . hillis is making them relevant in the football landscape again, and here's a retard that can't wait to replace him because his style isn't flashy. . . this guy must be the kiszla of cleveland sports media. . .

[jhildebrand]

There's a lot to like about Hillis. He's been the Browns' most productive option.

They just won't be a serious player in the NFL until he's not.

Hillarious. Minnesota has AP-big bruising runner. They were in the NFC CG. Baltimore went with physical runners in Ray Rice and Le'Ron McClain. They look pretty good to me. In fact the more teams go to cute spread finesse style offenses the more the blueprint will be physical punch you in the mouth teams to beat them.

Also, as I said in the offseason-McCoy will be a gamer. Check. Massoquai is a gamer check. Cleveland will be taking the North before too long and Hillis wont be the sole reason but he will be a big reason.

[jhildebrand]

The drafting Moreno didn't bother me and the Ayers pick was right were it he was expected to go. But to give a first round pick for Smith was really bad move especially in light of the fact he knew he needed a nose tackle for his 3-4 defense and didn't bother to take one. As it was said he made some rookie mistakes.

I agree that McDaniels conflict resolution skills seem to be weak imo.
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I question drafting Ayers, from a 4-3 hand in the dirt de and trying to make him an OLB in a 3-4 especially knowing Orakpo was sitting there.

Then let's not forget Clay Matthews, Zigi Hood (will be a great player), and Maualuga were all sitting there.

RB is a piss poor position to draft at 12 when the team has as many needs as the apologists consistently point out. We all knew the D was the problem and much more should have been invested in 09 let alone 10.

I think if it had been, McDaniels would be less criticised even with the removal of Nolan. However to simply not address the d and remove a DC that was the lone bright spot of the coaching staff in 09 is what gets him grilled!

[Northman]

what a dumbass excuse for a sportswriter. . . hillis is making them relevant in the football landscape again, and here's a retard that can't wait to replace him because his style isn't flashy. . . this guy must be the kiszla of cleveland sports media. . .

I agree, crappy journalism but when you have an agenda its not shocking.

Carol could of easily found an article like this but chose instead to find one bashing Hillis. Love it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/512135-peyton-hillis-six-reasons-hes-so-effective-in-the-cleveland-browns-offense


Every once in a while, things just work out perfectly—even in Cleveland.


That's how the story went this Sunday, when the Browns, led by rookie quarterback Colt McCoy and iron man running back Peyton Hillis, mowed down an overconfident New England team with the kind of play Bill Belichick didn't realize or wouldn't acknowledge they were capable of.


After winning the second of three solid starts he was never expected to make this season, McCoy became the first Browns quarterback since Bernie Kosar to get out on the field, defy the odds and prove that he just knows how to win. That's an amazing feat to be sure.


Even more amazing though? Peyton Hillis, who has been wowing us all season long. If you really stop to think about it, it makes you wonder what Hillis was doing during those two years in Denver before he was traded to the Browns. Was he just getting adjusted and warmed up to the league?
More likely, it just wasn't the right team for him. Enter Cleveland, where the slipper (er, cleat) just seemed to fit.


Hillis, whose tremendous skills might translate on any team at this point in his career, does so exceptionally well in Cleveland because the Browns' style of offense, general approach to the game and even organizational personality are perfectly aligned with what Hillis has to offer.
Following are six slides detailing what makes Hillis and the Browns such a perfect match.

[rcsodak]

Obviously Hillis is no longer a Bronco because we needed a back up QB that was better than Chris Simms. If the draft happened before the trade was considered, Hillis would likely still be a Bronco.

Y'all act more emo than my 16 year old cousin with a personality disorder.
he's in the perfect system. McD seems to "do right" by the players. I commend him for that. PH evidently needs to feel coddled. Lord knows shanny did alot of that...as does mangenious. :D
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[SOCALORADO.]

Hillarious. Minnesota has AP-big bruising runner. They were in the NFC CG. Baltimore went with physical runners in Ray Rice and Le'Ron McClain. They look pretty good to me. In fact the more teams go to cute spread finesse style offenses the more the blueprint will be physical punch you in the mouth teams to beat them.

Also, as I said in the offseason-McCoy will be a gamer. Check. Massoquai is a gamer check. Cleveland will be taking the North before too long and Hillis wont be the sole reason but he will be a big reason.

Its must be nice to have a big, bruiser who always gets your team tough yards, tough TDs and does it even when hes injured cause the finesse, other guy is knicked up.
I also agree. The BALT. PIT. NO. NYG. NYJ. GB, kick you in the face, physical style seems to be doin just fine.
Thats the main reason i like Gruden as DENs next option as a HC.
Guy coach's with, and wants that same style.

[rcsodak]

Seems we always hear this. "He had a bad attitude".. "He didnt play hard"...and my ABSOLUTE favorite around here.... "He didn't want to be a Bronco."

The coach had just spend a 1st round pick on his "bigger stronger, smarter" players and didn't like the media constantly asking about Hillis. Hillis was causing the media and fans to consistently doubt his choices as to who was in the line-up. Now that he's gone, he thought he would never have to hear about Hillis again. :lol:

^^^^ In Rav's personal unabashed, non-biased "opinion".
:wink:
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[rcsodak]

I can't say I believe it, honestly. Hillis is running people over, and that takes playing hard. I've said it since day one, and I'll say it again; McD is an idiot, and didn't give Hillis much of a chance.

Hillis has 644 yards, with nine TD's, while Moreno and Buckhalter combined have just over 300 yards.
so? Not sure what your point is. Does their multiple qb corp have the passing yards that orton has?
Different offenses.
I HIGHLY doubt TD would have had the same success in a different scheme.
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[SOCALORADO.]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2801441906_4e6da257fd.jpg?v=0

[rcsodak]

Yea, Moreno has never put the ball on the ground...errr....wait...

Some people just cant admit that McD makes mistakes and would rather make excuses for him at every turn.
As some cant admit any good. Welcome to the Land of I Know More Than an NFL Head Coach. :coffee:
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[turftoad]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

It's pretty evident from past players and by our current record that not many players want to work hard for McD. :shocked:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I agree, crappy journalism but when you have an agenda its not shocking.

Carol could of easily found an article like this but chose instead to find one bashing Hillis. Love it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/512135-peyton-hillis-six-reasons-hes-so-effective-in-the-cleveland-browns-offense

First off - I am NOT bashing Hillis. I like him. It just gives another view on him, FROM CLEVELAND - NOT DENVER.

[Dreadnought]

what a dumbass excuse for a sportswriter. . . hillis is making them relevant in the football landscape again, and here's a retard that can't wait to replace him because his style isn't flashy. . . this guy must be the kiszla of cleveland sports media. . .

No kidding. On top of it Hillis has in fact been breaking off the 20+ yard runs this year as well, notwithstanding that this dingleberry can't wrap his head around that fact. Perhaps Hillis doesn't fit his preconceived profile of what a TB looks like?

I'd almost suspect he was hitting the complimentary cocktail tray in the press box rather than, say, watching the game.

[Lonestar]

Hillarious. Minnesota has AP-big bruising runner. They were in the NFC CG. Baltimore went with physical runners in Ray Rice and Le'Ron McClain. They look pretty good to me. In fact the more teams go to cute spread finesse style offenses the more the blueprint will be physical punch you in the mouth teams to beat them.

Also, as I said in the offseason-McCoy will be a gamer. Check. Massoquai is a gamer check. Cleveland will be taking the North before too long and Hillis wont be the sole reason but he will be a big reason.

Think what the writer was trying to say was he can't be all of their offense. But then maybe I read it wrong.

When he becomes a PART of it and they have a solid passing game and great QB then they will be better.

[Lonestar]

No kidding. On top of it Hillis has in fact been breaking off the 20+ yard runs this year as well, notwithstanding what this dingleberry can't wrap his head around that fact. Perhaps Hillis doesn't fit his preconceived profile of what a TB looks like?

I'd almost suspect he was hitting the complimentary cocktail tray in the press box rather than, say, watching the game.

a lot like most of our fans before he did so. Hmmmmmm whose the dingleberry

[Northman]

First off - I am NOT bashing Hillis. I like him. It just gives another view on him, FROM CLEVELAND - NOT DENVER.

Actually, the writer that i posted that article from is a cleveland writer.

[Dreadnought]

a lot like most of our fans before he did so. Hmmmmmm whose the dingleberry

T'warent me. I have made some missed calls on personnel before (e.g. Lenny Walls, future superstar), but not this one. I got into a War with Dream over Hillis when we drafted his boy Moreno, frinstance. I hated the Moreno pick then because A) I don't believe in 1st rounders for RB's, ever, and B) I though we already had the right guys on the roster.

[Lonestar]

T'warent me. I have made some missed calls on personnel before (e.g. Lenny Walls, future superstar), but not this one. I got into a War with Dream over Hillis when we drafted his boy Moreno, frinstance. I hated the Moreno pick then because A) I don't believe in 1st rounders for RB's, ever, and B) I though we already had the right guys on the roster.

Well there were a hell of a lot of them, Before he was last man standing. mostly because he was not the right size to be a RB he was to big.

I was not over whelmed with taking a RB #1 either but I was up for just about anything to get us out of a rut we have been in for a decade. as for moreno as good as anyone else I did not know anything about college RBs so trusted BT and Josh to get a good one. not so sure he is not if he can ever get the hamstrings fixed who the heck knows

But we all know that some members get so invested in there favorites they can't see the forest for the trees Dream was like that.

[KCL]

I cannot even get through this whole thread...speaking as a football fan and not just a Chiefs fan..although I am going to point out a few things about KC.

First of all...I admire the loyalty some of you have for McD but he really has busted the team up...I thought Haley was bad but McD is worse.

Carol..I'm not sure I buy what you're posting...IMO that's someone's take on Hillis and shouldn't be taken as fact.

Seeing what Hillis is doing now in Cleveland...it's a no brainer that McD effed up and got rid of him for Quinn...Who has done what for the Broncos?

I'll be honest last season I hated the fact that KC hired Haley as their HC and I wondered why Pioli didn't try to get McD in KC...hmmm seems maybe Pioli knew better...still not sold on Haley but thankful McD isn't in KC...of course maybe he could have done good here because he wouldn't have been making all the decisions.

I was pretty pissed that Pioli didn't try to work something out with Gonzales...for awhile I felt like they just let him go but Pioli said he wouldn't keep players who didn't wanna play for KC and he replaced Tony with another TE named Tony who is doing quite well...so that worked out okay.

Sorry I am rambling..I just don't "get" the love for McD...I don't blame you all for being pissed...but on the other hand he did get Denver off to a great start last season only to see it fall apart...hoping the same thing doesn't happen in KC.

There's nothing wrong with being pissed and upset with the HC...the wins and losses are a reflection of his abilities...it starts with the coach to set things right and get players ready every week...he was handed too much responsibility and it is catching up with him.

Be interesting to see what happens next week when the Chiefs travel to
Denver...Denver could win..anything is possible...hell I never thought KC would win last season there like they did.

[dogfish]

a lot like most of our fans before he did so. Hmmmmmm whose the dingleberry

dread = not a dingleberry (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=310)

[Oldschoolcrush]

I think an interesting point about Shannahan's reign is all the RB's coming out of the woodworks......... It seemed as though he wasn't using draft picks but developing players (more specifically RB's) in order to obtain trades and/or draft picks.
McD is in the deficit concerning both; what can we expect from the future?
Doesn't look good!

I've reached the point that I want the Broncos to suck so bad that they have to sh*t can him. I think it's ridiculous what McD has done to skeletonize this team.

[Dreadnought]

dread = not a dingleberry (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=310)

According to that poll, a pretty strong majority here supported Hillis as RB even before Moreno was drafted. I wasn't in the minority by any stretch

[TXBRONC]

T'warent me. I have made some missed calls on personnel before (e.g. Lenny Walls, future superstar), but not this one. I got into a War with Dream over Hillis when we drafted his boy Moreno, frinstance. I hated the Moreno pick then because A) I don't believe in 1st rounders for RB's, ever, and B) I though we already had the right guys on the roster.

I disagree with you slightly. If we're talking about getting a running back the caliber of Peterson then I personally wouldn't think twice about taking him with a first.
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[broncofaninfla]

Bottom line is as long as Hillis continues to shine and Denver continues to struggle, the Hillis threads will continue. This issue will stay at the forefront because Hillis is so good at what Denver is so weak at now. None of our RBs come close to what he brings to a team.

For those who want to cite systems, the Hillis way trumped the Patriot way yesterday. I'd bet bottom dollar Belichick could use him in his system, truly good coaches can.

Add this to the list of mistakes made by Mcd/Xanders/Ellis

[KCL]

I think an interesting point about Shannahan's reign is all the RB's coming out of the woodworks......... It seemed as though he wasn't using draft picks but developing players (more specifically RB's) in order to obtain trades and/or draft picks.
McD is in the deficit concerning both; what can we expect from the future?
Doesn't look good!

I've reached the point that I want the Broncos to suck so bad that they have to sh*t can him. I think it's ridiculous what McD has done to skeletonize this team.

That's what I remember about Shanny and my husband always said the same thing...Denver always had a shitload of RBs and seems they were mostly good ones.

[Northman]

Bottom line is as long as Hillis continues to shine and Denver continues to struggle, the Hillis threads will continue. This issue will stay at the forefront because Hillis is so good at what Denver is so weak at now. None of our RBs come close to what he brings to a team.

For those who want to cite systems, the Hillis way trumped the Patriot way yesterday. I'd bet bottom dollar Belichick could use him in his system, truly good coaches can.

Add this to the list of mistakes made by Mcd/Xanders/Ellis

There will always be certain moves that will sting the fanbase. Dale Carter being one of them good or bad and now Hillis as another.

[KCL]

I don't understand why McD didn't leave well enough alone..keep the players that were here (even Jay) and work around them...tweak ( and I hate that word..lol) the team some as that is always needed but don't dismantle it.

Denver should have kept Shanahan..:lol:

[Dreadnought]

There will always be certain moves that will sting the fanbase. Dale Carter being one of them good or bad and now Hillis as another.

Hell, old timers haven't forgotten Ted Gregory. Think we'll forget the mess of the last two years anytime soon?

[jhildebrand]

Think what the writer was trying to say was he can't be all of their offense. But then maybe I read it wrong.

When he becomes a PART of it and they have a solid passing game and great QB then they will be better.

Understand that. That just makes it worse! When, as the writer suggests, there is nothing BUT HILLIS and he is able to destroy the almighty Patriots single handedly than it makes Hillis that much better.

Nobody is suggesting that Hillis be the focus or entire offense but it sure is nice, especially for a coach, to know that if needed a certain player can single handedly carry the offense.

This makes it much worse for McD. Hillis wouldn't need to be the entire O here last year or this year. However, knowing the problems this team has had on O especially running and a banged up D having a Hillis who single handedly keeps the O on the field sure would help :coffee:

Thanks for proving my point!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Actually, the writer that i posted that article from is a cleveland writer.

OK - that's fine - a different perspective than the one I posted - nothing wrong with that. Hillis had a GREAT game yesterday, and I am glad he did.

[jhildebrand]

I'm pretty sure that it would not be used in the spread offense we are going to here.

Are you not the least bit concerned about this system that is being installed and the person in charge of constructing it? :confused:

Seriously, JRWIZ. When you see Bill Belichick move completely away from the McD offense and back to more of what they did pre McD altogether, aren't you concerned?

Aren't you concerned knowing they are going away from McD when they don't have the questions we do from a personnel standpoint. They have a beast NT in Wilfork. They have LB's with a stud in Mayo. They have DB's and a stud in Chung. They have an O line. They have TE's. They have a RB and can run the ball!

Does that not raise even a few questions or concerns for you? :confused:

[Dreadnought]

I disagree with you slightly. If we're talking about getting a running back the caliber of Peterson then I personally wouldn't think twice about taking him with a first.
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Its an arguable point. My own thinking is with a top tier O-Line and a system like we once used you can do very nicely with the likes of Tatum Bell, Selvin Young, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, - and yes, Peyton Hillis - year after year - and as a bonus you are relatively injury proof. Reload periodically with midround guys and repeat as needed.

[BroncoNut]

the deal is done, let it go

[jhildebrand]

Hell, old timers haven't forgotten Ted Gregory. Think we'll forget the mess of the last two years anytime soon?

Ted Gregory, Mike Croel and Tommy Maddox come to mind right off the bat for me. Just thinking about those guys gets me spittin mad. Hillis wont blow over anytime this season.

[Slick]

I apologize to you Slick - I was just passing on what Gary Miller said he was told. He has no reason to lie, nor does the person who told him this. As Hillis is/has been a hot topic on here, thought it was worth posting what Miller said this morning. - I should have KNOWN BETTER, as people will believe what they want.


Most of us are angry and depressed when it comes to are favorite football team at the moment. I just thought a thread like this would give the same results as throwing gas on a fire.

I still love you Carol.

[Oldschoolcrush]

the deal is done, let it go
I don't think this is the point, we all know that..... It's understanding how a HCoach can make such an absurd decision when it was blatantly obvious to even those who don't know their a$$es from our elbows concerning the game.
Did you see him crumple safety Roy Williams while LB Keith Rivers was being dragged holding onto his waist?......... You don't need a trained eye to identify the power in his running..... I was convinced along time ago, the first game he was given the ball.
This about more than Hillis, it's about the effectiveness of the person making decisions regarding this team.

And **** it, I'm gonna see if it's on youtube just to make me feel better

[Northman]

the deal is done, let it go

No, i dont wanna.

[Oldschoolcrush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P491wTM-gQ4

[Oldschoolcrush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FtNxvpaK6I&NR=1

[Oldschoolcrush]

Non related..... for our resident Chief fan.... Also just to make me feel better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmwFtwjHr9g

[Northman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P491wTM-gQ4

I loved the first comment below on that video.

"The boogieman checks his closet for Hillis".

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Bosco]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

A problem that was pointed out in the same SIGMA test results that I've posted here multiple times. Sounds like after two separate coaching staffs buried his ass on the depth chart that maybe he pulled his head out of his ass.


Hillis’s SIGMA test results raise several concerns. The approach he took to learning and preparation in college produced a personal belief that he was not able to consistently execute his responsibilities in games. There are strong indications that he needs to take more personal responsibility for learning what he needs to know. His coaches should make him execute, again and again, his responsibilities in game-like time constraints. During the off-season, pre-season, and practice, he will sometimes give less than his best effort and will let up when he sees an opportunity to do so. As a result, Hillis has not always been able to meet the challenges placed in front of him by his coaches. There were times when Hillis thought he came up short of meeting his own and his coaches’ expectations. He will be concerned about the kind of system he may be placed in and whether he can be successful and meet everyone’s requirements and demands. Hillis will tend to worry that he is not as prepared as he should be going into games. This self-doubt does not speak well for his chances of advancing and mastering his position requirements at the next level. Hillis is usually content to rely heavily on his natural abilities to get by and believes that his past coaches have had little impact on his performance. He thinks that he knows best and is less likely to listen to coaches’ advice and instructions and instead will try to play the game his own way. When things are not going well for him, Hillis will be openly critical and question his coaches and his teammates.

[Northman]

He doesnt seem to be having that issue in Cleveland if it really existed.

[Slick]

He doesnt seem to be having that issue in Cleveland if it really existed.

Pretty much what bosco said genius.

[Northman]

Pretty much what bosco said genius.

Is it?

I must of missed it in all the "he doesnt listen to coaches, does his own thing" banter. :lol:

[Bosco]

Pretty much what bosco said genius.

Thanks. :D

[nevcraw]

If has been mentioned by others forgive me but another short sighted screw up by the FO was Wiegman. He is so washed up that he is anchoring the best running team in football now and only allloweds something like 7 sacks.. what a has been..

[Bosco]

You know what's really funny is we're the beneficiary of this very same situation with Brandon Lloyd. Much like Hillis, he admitted that his first few years in the league he was not truly dedicated to the game and content to let his physical talent carry him. It took several years of getting passed around the league as a journeyman #4 receiver and being inactive most of 2009 with us before he decided to start acting like a professional and now he's producing like an elite receiver.

As much as the Bears could use him right now, does anyone here think it would make sense to be burning Lovie Smith at the stake for letting him go?

[SOCALORADO.]

If has been mentioned by others forgive me but another short sighted screw up by the FO was Wiegman. He is so washed up that he is anchoring the best running team in football now and only allloweds something like 7 sacks.. what a has been..

So funny! I was watching that game yesterday, and there he was in the huddle!
I thought the same thing. and i still think Walton will be fine, but even us fans know that its never wise to go into a season with just a rookie Center.

Did Weigmann want even more coin that what we gave him?
Would have been nice for Walton to have a guy to kinda tutor him.
Oh well, i guess Brady Quinn can tutor Walton.

[Northman]

You know what's really funny is we're the beneficiary of this very same situation with Brandon Lloyd. Much like Hillis, he admitted that his first few years in the league he was not truly dedicated to the game and content to let his physical talent carry him. It took several years of getting passed around the league as a journeyman #4 receiver and being inactive most of 2009 with us before he decided to start acting like a professional and now he's producing like an elite receiver.

As much as the Bears could use him right now, does anyone here think it would make sense to be burning Lovie Smith at the stake for letting him go?

Situation is different. Lloyd never showed what was promised when he started out so it was easy to see him as a castoff. However, it was pretty easy to see that Hillis was a special player from day one.

[Softskull]

You know what's really funny is we're the beneficiary of this very same situation with Brandon Lloyd. Much like Hillis, he admitted that his first few years in the league he was not truly dedicated to the game and content to let his physical talent carry him. It took several years of getting passed around the league as a journeyman #4 receiver and being inactive most of 2009 with us before he decided to start acting like a professional and now he's producing like an elite receiver.

As much as the Bears could use him right now, does anyone here think it would make sense to be burning Lovie Smith at the stake for letting him go?

Although I agree with you, I think Chicago has plenty more reasons to be flogging Lovie other than Lloyd. I had forgotten that Lloyd and Orton had played together before arriving here.

[nevcraw]

You know what's really funny is we're the beneficiary of this very same situation with Brandon Lloyd. Much like Hillis, he admitted that his first few years in the league he was not truly dedicated to the game and content to let his physical talent carry him. It took several years of getting passed around the league as a journeyman #4 receiver and being inactive most of 2009 with us before he decided to start acting like a professional and now he's producing like an elite receiver.

As much as the Bears could use him right now, does anyone here think it would make sense to be burning Lovie Smith at the stake for letting him go?

The only comparrison here is that they are both men and thery both play football -- their situations are not at all alike. Unlike Hillis, LLoyd didn't show up when called upon until something like 8 years in the league. Hillis has everytime he was allowed to play. not a like at all.

[Bosco]

Situation is different. Lloyd never showed what was promised when he started out so it was easy to see him as a castoff. However, it was pretty easy to see that Hillis was a special player from day one.

Not only are your facts wrong (Lloyd showed as much or more in his first two seasons than Hillis did) but so is your premise. The only difference in the situation is that it took Lloyd seven and a half years to finally get it while some like Hillis and Alphonso Smith get it much quicker.

This isn't exactly a rare occurrence in the NFL, so why is everyone acting like it is?


The only comparrison here is that they are both men and thery both play football -- their situations are not at all alike. Unlike Hillis, LLoyd didn't show up when called upon until something like 8 years in the league. Hillis has everytime he was allowed to play. not a like at all.

Lloyd was a 40+ catch receiver for two of his three seasons in San Fran.

[Gimpygod]

Well there were a hell of a lot of them, Before he was last man standing. mostly because he was not the right size to be a RB he was to big.

I was not over whelmed with taking a RB #1 either but I was up for just about anything to get us out of a rut we have been in for a decade. as for moreno as good as anyone else I did not know anything about college RBs so trusted BT and Josh to get a good one. not so sure he is not if he can ever get the hamstrings fixed who the heck knows

But we all know that some members get so invested in there favorites they can't see the forest for the trees Dream was like that.

unlike your stance with McDaniels.......................

[Northman]

This isn't exactly a rare occurrence in the NFL, so why is everyone acting like it is?





Why do you deflect any criticism of McD? Pretty sad on your part. Im not worried about what happens on other teams. Im a Denver Bronco fan.

[Northman]

Ill also add that if Lloyd indeed played great early on than San Fran made a mistake letting him go as well so in both cases the teams F'd up.

[Bosco]

Why do you deflect any criticism of McD? Pretty sad on your part. Im not worried about what happens on other teams. Im a Denver Bronco fan.

I'm not deflecting anything. I'm showing examples of extremely talented players who failed with their original teams due to a (usually self admitted) lack of dedication. Trying to hold a coach accountable for that is flat out stupid, no matter who the coach is. It's also just as stupid to try holding it over a coach's head because the player finally had the light go on somewhere else.

This is life in the NFL. I can trot out example after example after example of this happening over the years. Sometimes you're on the good end, and sometimes you're on the bad end, but it's still going to happen.


Ill also add that if Lloyd indeed played great early on than San Fran made a mistake letting him go as well so in both cases the teams F'd up. He didn't play great. He was a very hot and cold player depending on whatever his mood was that particular week. That's why he was 40+ catch starter but most of those catches and yards came in a handful of games. The 49ers couldn't hold onto a guy who wasn't giving it his all every week and now several years later he's finally doing that, resulting in a career year.

[arapaho2]

so? Not sure what your point is. Does their multiple qb corp have the passing yards that orton has?
Different offenses.
I HIGHLY doubt TD would have had the same success in a different scheme.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


whats the point?...maybe the fact we are dead last in rush yardage...maybe the fact mcds playaction passing attack has been faultering lately without a threat of a rb....maybe the fact a rb that could actually get some yards and be productive would be a blessing in this offense


by the way...despite the fact they are starting a rookie qb...with rookie wrs...and have less yards in the passing game

who has the lead in wins?

[Northman]

I'm not deflecting anything. I'm showing examples of extremely talented players who failed with their original teams due to a (usually self admitted) lack of dedication. .

Well wait. Didnt you just say that Lloyd was playing well early on? Which is it?


As for good things and bad things happening, of course it happens and thats why people discuss them. It was a poor move to trade Hillis and it pisses off the fanbase. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

[jhildebrand]

whats the point?...maybe the fact we are dead last in rush yardage...maybe the fact mcds playaction passing attack has been faultering lately without a threat of a rb....maybe the fact a rb that could actually get some yards and be productive would be a blessing in this offense


by the way...despite the fact they are starting a rookie qb...with rookie wrs...and have less yards in the passing game

who has the lead in wins?

Or how about the fact he has shown he can carry an entire team on his back?

or how about how he keeps the Cleveland D fresh? You don't think our D could benefit from that?

It is putrid on too many levels and McD can blame only himself for allowing this to go on so long.

Simply put, McD could have buried this long ago. But Kremlin Valley or Dove Valley's refusal to address it head on allows it to fester!

[jhildebrand]

Are you not the least bit concerned about this system that is being installed and the person in charge of constructing it? :confused:

Seriously, JRWIZ. When you see Bill Belichick move completely away from the McD offense and back to more of what they did pre McD altogether, aren't you concerned?

Aren't you concerned knowing they are going away from McD when they don't have the questions we do from a personnel standpoint. They have a beast NT in Wilfork. They have LB's with a stud in Mayo. They have DB's and a stud in Chung. They have an O line. They have TE's. They have a RB and can run the ball!

Does that not raise even a few questions or concerns for you? :confused:

I'll ask the above of anyone not just the ardent McD supporters!!!!

[Bosco]

Well wait. Didnt you just say that Lloyd was playing well early on? Which is it? See my edit to a previous post.



Ill also add that if Lloyd indeed played great early on than San Fran made a mistake letting him go as well so in both cases the teams F'd up. He didn't play great. He was a very hot and cold player depending on whatever his mood was that particular week. That's why he was 40+ catch starter but most of those catches and yards came in a handful of games. The 49ers couldn't hold onto a guy who wasn't giving it his all every week and now several years later he's finally doing that, resulting in a career year.
As for good things and bad things happening, of course it happens and thats why people discuss them. It was a poor move to trade Hillis and it pisses off the fanbase. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Why is it so hard to comprehend that it wasn't a poor move. Two different coaching staffs including the excellent Bobby Turner gave him his chance here in Denver. He didn't get it done so he was flipped for a former 1st round quarterback.

Teams aren't going to hold onto these players for all that long, especially when the only investment in them was a 7th round pick.

[arapaho2]

Or how about the fact he has shown he can carry an entire team on his back?

or how about how he keeps the Cleveland D fresh? You don't think our D could benefit from that?

It is putrid on too many levels and McD can blame only himself for allowing this to go on so long.

Simply put, McD could have buried this long ago. But Kremlin Valley or Dove Valley's refusal to address it head on allows it to fester!

heres what i miss...from hillis rookie season....more highlights in a few games than a year an a half from knoshow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K9cSqlca4w&feature=related


how can you not find a use for him?

[SOCALORADO.]

I'll ask the above of anyone not just the ardent McD supporters!!!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2801441906_4e6da257fd.jpg?v=0
"Oh, they encased them in carbonite. They should be quite well protected."

Now all we gotta do is send Northman and Clay down there and set them free.
Then we can turn this $h!turd around.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

its funny because this story was released a longggg time ago. and if you watched the games you actually noticed hillis not giving it his all! the guy had his mind made up that he was a RB and he was no longer willing to play FB and just be a blocking.pass catching FB. Hillis quit when he stopped getting carries!

[D1g1tal j1m]

McD let Hillis go because he was coming off major hamstring injury and was third/forth on the RB depth chart to start the season. We also needed an upgrade to our backup QB situation (as Simms was horrible) and Brady Quinn became available. Yes we traded for Tebow but with the Quinn acquisition McD felt comfortable in drafting Tim to be his pet project as Orton and Quinn being his 1 & 2 QB's.
Hillis was a FB who had good receiving skills that could possibly play in our goal line packages but that is all I thought about him.
Good for him that he is putting the kind of season that he is right now. But he isn't a Bronco now, so let it go. Certain players thrive in different environments and I don't think Hillis would thrive in the one back set that we employ 90 % of the time.

[Bosco]

how can you not find a use for him?

They tried. Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels both tried him as a fullback. They both eventually benched him for Spencer Larsen.

They both tried him at running back. Under Shanahan he had two good games and a few solid ones. Under McDaniels he ran the wrong pass routes, dropped at least two passes, missed blocking assignments, and didn't know the formations resulting in burnt timeouts.

They both tried Hillis as a kick returner. He averaged 16.3 yards per return under Shanahan. Under McDaniels he fumbled.

It's pretty hard to make the argument that neither Josh or Mike didn't make a concentrated effort to get Hillis involved.

[SOCALORADO.]

its funny because this story was released a longggg time ago. and if you watched the games you actually noticed hillis not giving it his all! the guy had his mind made up that he was a RB and he was no longer willing to play FB and just be a blocking.pass catching FB. Hillis quit when he stopped getting carries!

I dont know WTF your post is about, but that is an incredible mock draft! not the picks so much, but the amount of picks!
Could we get some intel on how that happened?
I am gonna take your picks and make my own mock, just for shnitzl and giggles!

[Ravage!!!]

its funny because this story was released a longggg time ago. and if you watched the games you actually noticed hillis not giving it his all! the guy had his mind made up that he was a RB and he was no longer willing to play FB and just be a blocking.pass catching FB. Hillis quit when he stopped getting carries!

Horse Crap..... complete and TOTAL horse CRAP

[arapaho2]

McD let Hillis go because he was coming off major hamstring injury and was third/forth on the RB depth chart to start the season. We also needed an upgrade to our backup QB situation (as Simms was horrible) and Brady Quinn became available. Yes we traded for Tebow but with the Quinn acquisition McD felt comfortable in drafting Tim to be his pet project as Orton and Quinn being his 1 & 2 QB's.
Hillis was a FB who had good receiving skills that could possibly play in our goal line packages but that is all I thought about him.
Good for him that he is putting the kind of season that he is right now. But he isn't a Bronco now, so let it go. Certain players thrive in different environments and I don't think Hillis would thrive in the one back set that we employ 90 % of the time.

yes there is nothing in his style of play that says a 240 beast would be able to play in a single back set....meanwhile back in reality..the broncos are dead last in rushing yards:lol:

that is also proven by knoshows highlight runs through and over defenders:coffee: before the stiff breeze topples him


ps....hillis was comeing off a hamstring injury in 09...he was traded in 2010

[turftoad]

its funny because this story was released a longggg time ago. and if you watched the games you actually noticed hillis not giving it his all! the guy had his mind made up that he was a RB and he was no longer willing to play FB and just be a blocking.pass catching FB. Hillis quit when he stopped getting carries!

I don't believe that for a second.

He was a FB all the way through college. He blocked for both D. McFadden and Felix Jones.

I doubt he had much of a problem staying at fullback if thats where we wanted him to be.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Just passing along what Gary Miller said a few minutes ago on 87.7 the ticket, which Miller said was a conversation he had with someone who was on the practice field daily - not a coach, or a player:

From Miller:

When new coaching staff got here - Hillis put the ball on the ground a few times, but what Miller was told was that Hillis did not play hard when he did not have the football - blocking, etc., and the players noticed it.

Wasn't it Gary Miller that said there were players in the locker room after the Raider blowout who were griping about Mickey?

As I recall, you didn't believe THAT story. And yet, you are just "passing" this little tidbit along.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.....

:coffee:

[Northman]

Why is it so hard to comprehend that it wasn't a poor move.

In his limited time he did get it done and its only showing even more in Cleveland. Your totally incorrect here mate.

[Ravage!!!]

They tried. Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels both tried him as a fullback. They both eventually benched him for Spencer Larsen.

They both tried him at running back. Under Shanahan he had two good games and a few solid ones. Under McDaniels he ran the wrong pass routes, dropped at least two passes, missed blocking assignments, and didn't know the formations resulting in burnt timeouts.

They both tried Hillis as a kick returner. He averaged 16.3 yards per return under Shanahan. Under McDaniels he fumbled.

It's pretty hard to make the argument that neither Josh or Mike didn't make a concentrated effort to get Hillis involved.

He didn't get a "concentrated" effort once McD took over, and you know it. He wanted Moreno to be the main guy, and thats why Hillis saw the bench. Seriously, you guys are trying WAYYYYYY tooooo hard to defend the VERY VERY obvious. McD made a HUGE mistake and MOST of the fans that have ever watched Hillis play, KNEW it from the time it happened. We aren't shocked, we aren't surprised. Why not just admit that he EFFED UP instead of trying Sooooooo hard to actuallyd defend YET ANOTHER player personnel screw up? :lol:

[Bosco]

In his limited time he did get it done

Then where was he hiding from week 1 to week 9 of 2008?

[TimTebow15MVP]

Hmmm...methinks the McDaniels organization might be yet again making stuff up again about ex-players. Their least attractive attribute of many unattractive attributes. Whisper campaigns personally disgust me, and its become a pattern with these guys.

In short, I don't believe it for a second.

you dont have to believe it but its true. all you gotta do is get a thing called DVR and watch hillis effort once he was benched as a RB and move to FB permanantly. HE DIDNT EVEN TRY AND THE FILM DIDNT LIE.

[Northman]

But he isn't a Bronco now, so let it go.

Nah, how bout you just deal with it and let others speak their peace. No one has to do anything just to make you happy.

[Ravage!!!]

Then where was he hiding from week 1 to week 9 of 2008?

Who cares? Seriously.. wht difference does it make? He was making plays from the backfield before then, but was drafted as a FB. How many carries do you supposed a 7th round FB would get in practice as the TB? Not many. When it came time to needing one, he was put into the role becuase we needed and then he excelled. Who cares what he did before hand??? Where was Kurt Warner for all those years bfore he stepped in for an injured Green?

[TimTebow15MVP]

I don't believe that for a second.

He was a FB all the way through college. He blocked for both D. McFadden and Felix Jones.

I doubt he had much of a problem staying at fullback if thats where we wanted him to be.

no thats why he was tired of being a FB. he got some touches under shanny and started feeling himself way too much. i watched the games over and over and over. im not claiming to know everything but i know effort. hillis tanked it once he was benched as a RB. all he did was whiff on blocks and flatout not try. his feelings were hurt. he tasted a lil success as a RB and never wanted to look back!.

[Northman]

Then where was he hiding from week 1 to week 9 of 2008?


Behind other backs that Shanahan thought were equally as good.

[Ravage!!!]

you dont have to believe it but its true. all you gotta do is get a thing called DVR and watch hillis effort once he was benched as a RB and move to FB permanantly. HE DIDNT EVEN TRY AND THE FILM DIDNT LIE.

You feel you are pretty good at breaking down game film from DVR, do ya?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Wasn't it Gary Miller that said there were players in the locker room after the Raider blowout who were griping about Mickey?

As I recall, you didn't believe THAT story. And yet, you are just "passing" this little tidbit along.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.....

:coffee:

Please refresh my memory - where is it posted that Gary Miller said there were players in the locker room after the Raider blowout who were griping about Coach McD? Not saying there is not something posted, just can't remember.

And please refresh my memory, where I said that I did NOT believe that story, as I do not recall saying that - may have - just do not recall.

[Bosco]

He didn't get a "concentrated" effort once McD took over, and you know it. He wanted Moreno to be the main guy, and thats why Hillis saw the bench. So why did he have Hillis working almost exclusively as a running back in the single set for all of preseason and into week 2 with Cleveland? Hillis was unimpressive in the preseason, a complete liability in the regular season and now we have reports that he was slacking off the whole time.

Just what, pray tell, do you think McDaniels should have done? Give more playing time to a player not earning it?

[Northman]

no thats why he was tired of being a FB. he got some touches under shanny and started feeling himself way too much. i watched the games over and over and over. im not claiming to know everything but i know effort. hillis tanked it once he was benched as a RB. all he did was whiff on blocks and flatout not try. his feelings were hurt. he tasted a lil success as a RB and never wanted to look back!.

Ive watched the same tapes and your wrong. Next...

[TimTebow15MVP]

I dont know WTF your post is about, but that is an incredible mock draft! not the picks so much, but the amount of picks!
Could we get some intel on how that happened?
I am gonna take your picks and make my own mock, just for shnitzl and giggles!

traded orton, champ bailey and brandon lloyd... which i think are realistic and fair trades.....

[Broncos Mtnman]

I apologize to you Slick - I was just passing on what Gary Miller said he was told. He has no reason to lie, nor does the person who told him this. As Hillis is/has been a hot topic on here, thought it was worth posting what Miller said this morning. - I should have KNOWN BETTER, as people will believe what they want.

So, I guess he had no reason to lie about disgruntled players in the locker room either.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

:coffee:

[Bosco]

Behind other backs that Shanahan thought were equally as good.

You mean Selvin Young (out of the league) Andre Hall (out of the league) Michael Pittman (out of the league) Tatum Bell (out of the league) and Ryan Torain for the two games where he was between major injuries?

Sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.

[dogfish]

See my edit to a previous post.

Why is it so hard to comprehend that it wasn't a poor move. Two different coaching staffs including the excellent Bobby Turner gave him his chance here in Denver. He didn't get it done so he was flipped for a former 1st round quarterback.

Teams aren't going to hold onto these players for all that long, especially when the only investment in them was a 7th round pick.

our current coaching staff gave him 13 stinking carries-- that isn't anything even close to resembling a chance. . .

you can spin 'til the wheels come off and it changes nothing. . .

[TimTebow15MVP]

Ive watched the same tapes and your wrong. Next...

your lying... You dont have to lie to kick it.

[Northman]

You mean Selvin Young (out of the league) Andre Hall (out of the league) Michael Pittman (out of the league) Tatum Bell (out of the league) and Ryan Torain for the two games where he was between major injuries?

Sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.

Thats besides the point and you know it. At that time that is the talent Shanny thought he had. Its not any different than McD starting Moreno because its his first round pick. Lamont Jordan? Really? :lol:

[arapaho2]

They tried. Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels both tried him as a fullback. They both eventually benched him for Spencer Larsen.

They both tried him at running back. Under Shanahan he had two good games and a few solid ones. Under McDaniels he ran the wrong pass routes, dropped at least two passes, missed blocking assignments, and didn't know the formations resulting in burnt timeouts.

They both tried Hillis as a kick returner. He averaged 16.3 yards per return under Shanahan. Under McDaniels he fumbled.

It's pretty hard to make the argument that neither Josh or Mike didn't make a concentrated effort to get Hillis involved.

he was a rookie under shanny...what part of that dont you get?

and yes shanny did suplant him with larsen...when hillis was the starting rb
as for his time at rb...far from a few good games...he started 3 games as full time back and two others partially..one when torain got hurt..the other when he tore his hammy
in that he had 343 rushing...5 tds..179 rec 1 td
show me one three game strtch from moreno that tops that

under mcd...quinn doesnt know his pass routes...cant block...cant beat out gronkowski...gets chewed out..and is never ready to play..yet ?

true he fumbled...but then thomas has fumbled as a wr...as a runner...and as a returner....so should mcd oust him for that?

as for makeing a effort...he had a whopping 13 carries under mcd...real concetrated effort there :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

So why did he have Hillis working almost exclusively as a running back in the single set for all of preseason and into week 2 with Cleveland? Hillis was unimpressive in the preseason, a complete liability in the regular season and now we have reports that he was slacking off the whole time.

Just what, pray tell, do you think McDaniels should have done? Give more playing time to a player not earning it?

Moreno wasn't healthy (shocker) in preseason.. he absolutely was NOT a completely liability in the reg-season, and the reports are about as BOGUS as you can get.

McD was tired of the press asking, and hoping for Hillis. He wanted HIS boy to shine and not continue to hear that the OTHER guy was the fan/press favorite. This LAME Lame made up stuff that we are hearing from you about lack of effort, and lack of knowing the plays, and not smart enough, are just made up rumors to do wht you can to justify the move. Why? Because you can't POSSIBLY admit that McD has screw up THIS BAD AGAIN!! He continues to do it, but you just want to try SOooooo hard to defend everything.

First it was because he fumbled, then it was because you wanted to make up about him not being smart enough, now you want to cling onto some invalide and unvarified reports of "slacking"... ALLLLLL the while, we are WATCHING him have better running success than Adrian Peterson, and doing it while playing for Cleveland.

yes yes... he's VERY justified in this move :lol: :lol:

[Northman]

your lying... You dont have to lie to kick it.

Tapes dont lie, he was working hard and not quitting. Its not his MO. Plus, dont get personal.

[Ravage!!!]

our current coaching staff gave him 13 stinking carries-- that isn't anything even close to resembling a chance. . .

you can spin 'til the wheels come off and it changes nothing. . .

Not JUST a chance... it was a "concentrated effort"....:coffee:

[arapaho2]

Then where was he hiding from week 1 to week 9 of 2008?


on the bench as most 7th round rooks are...when he wasnt in the game as a full back

[arapaho2]

no thats why he was tired of being a FB. he got some touches under shanny and started feeling himself way too much. i watched the games over and over and over. im not claiming to know everything but i know effort. hillis tanked it once he was benched as a RB. all he did was whiff on blocks and flatout not try. his feelings were hurt. he tasted a lil success as a RB and never wanted to look back!.


and you could tell that in ...all 13 attempts


:lol::lol::lol::lol:....child please

[dogfish]

Not JUST a chance... it was a "concentrated effort"....:coffee:

yea, they really pulled out all the stops. . . . :lol::lol:

[Bosco]

our current coaching staff gave him 13 stinking carries-- that isn't anything even close to resembling a chance. . .

you can spin 'til the wheels come off and it changes nothing. . .

Why would you give him carries when he was very average in the preseason, reportedly slacking off in preseason, making mistakes with the chances he was given and had a productive running back tandem in front of him?

Are you honestly advocating giving him more chances based on physical talent alone? What message does that send to the team?


Thats besides the point and you know it. It's besides the point because it further deflates your stance. We were losing running backs left and right and Mike Shanahan never once thought to call on Hillis until he literally had no other choice.

Once again you're not interested in truth, you're interested in being right.


At that time that is the talent Shanny thought he had. Its not any different than McD starting Moreno because its his first round pick. Lamont Jordan? Really? :lol: LaMont Jordan never started for us.

[arapaho2]

Then where was he hiding from week 1 to week 9 of 2008?

wheres eric decker hiding...weeks 1-8?...he must suck:elefant:

[Nomad]

:lol:I see what everybody's been doing all day! My politically correct answer is I agree with all the posts before me!!:D

You could always tell Hillis was a special back when at Arkansas especially a receiving/blocking back ask McFadden and Jones!! I don't know why he went in the 7th and I don't know why McDaniels got rid of him but this is Mcdaniels biggest mistake as far as trading players!!

[TimTebow15MVP]

Tapes dont lie, he was working hard and not quitting. Its not his MO. Plus, dont get personal.

Alotta peoples "MO" switch up when they taste a lil success. Its okay if your a fanboy though. Hillis is a average player that i loved too. But the boy wanted to be a RB. Like i said Mcdaniels didnt try to sit hillis on the back of the bench. he played him at FB and hillis didnt care to play fullback. you peopel make mcdaniels out to be dumber than he actually is.At the end of the day Hillis fumbled away his carries at RB, got benched at RB, started at FB, Failed at FB because he was not interested in playing fullback. You dont think hillis was a mcdaniels type of player with that versitility? He sure was and woulda fitted in fine at FB blocking and catching passes out the backfield but less rushing the ball. Hillis clearly wanted no parts of that.

thee end.

[Northman]

I admit, we have to be fair to McD.

He's a pretty impulsive guy and doesnt think things through like he should so its expected that he would make these blunders.

[arapaho2]

Why would you give him carries when he was very average in the preseason, reportedly slacking off in preseason, making mistakes with the chances he was given and had a productive running back tandem in front of him?

Are you honestly advocating giving him more chances based on physical talent alone? What message does that send to the team?

It's besides the point because it further deflates your stance. We were losing running backs left and right and Mike Shanahan never once thought to call on Hillis until he literally had no other choice.

Once again you're not interested in truth, you're interested in being right, and

LaMont Jordan never started for us.


i wonder if its because he was a rookie fullback?...nah lets not go with the truth...kinda deflates boscos balloons

[Bosco]

on the bench as most 7th round rooks are...when he wasnt in the game as a full back

Hillis was the starting fullback in week 1, got benched and from then until week 9 he was inactive for a handful of games and relegated to special teams duty in the others.

I'll also remind you that Shanahan has never had a problem starting late round running backs.

[Northman]

It's besides the point because it further deflates your stance. We were losing running backs left and right and Mike Shanahan never once thought to call on Hillis until he literally had no other choice.

Deflates my stance? How? Hillis was added for depth and had Shanny not been fired there was nothing to show that Hillis would of been traded or cut. Your reaching.


Once again you're not interested in truth, you're interested in being right, and

LaMont Jordan never started for us.

He started over Hillis under McD's regime. But we know how great Jordan is.

[elsid13]

But how is what I don't understand. Bobby Turner is one of the best running back coaches period and I know Shanahan respects, values and listens to his opinion. So how did they miss it? How did Cleveland miss it? McDaniels....well....I'm not going there.

I guess I just don't get it. I got a ton of flack when I drafted Hillis in my fantasy league. I look like a freaking genius right now. And I'm only a fan. I sure wish I could talk to these coaches one on one and get an honest answer.

Remember that Turner and Shanahan are looking of certain type of back to run in their ZBS scheme. A back that press the hole, and has feet to cut back. That is not Hillis strength. When Hillis did come in, Denver altered the blocking scheme to incorporate more traps and pulls which allowed Hillis to get move down hill fast. We still ran zone plays but there were more off tackle plays then cut backs.

Funny thing is that style that McDaniels wants to run is that traps, off tackles and pulls that Hillis is suited for.

[claymore]

Hillis contributed more as a 7th rounder in his rookie year than 4 of our 1st rounders in the past 2 years.

[Northman]

Alotta peoples "MO" switch up when they taste a lil success. Its okay if your a fanboy though. Hillis is a average player that i loved too. But the boy wanted to be a RB. Like i said Mcdaniels didnt try to sit hillis on the back of the bench. he played him at FB and hillis didnt care to play fullback. you peopel make mcdaniels out to be dumber than he actually is.At the end of the day Hillis fumbled away his carries at RB, got benched at RB, started at FB, Failed at FB because he was not interested in playing fullback. You dont think hillis was a mcdaniels type of player with that versitility? He sure was and woulda fitted in fine at FB blocking and catching passes out the backfield but less rushing the ball. Hillis clearly wanted no parts of that.

thee end.

Like i said, keep it civil. The fanboy comment wasnt needed. I do like Hillis the player and have for a long while. You think he is average, i think he is better than average and he has proven it so far this year. I dont have to try and make McD look dumb. The guy has done it on his own quite a bit. Do i think Hillis is his type of player? Who knows, McD doesnt give players enough to time or reps to even make a fair judgement.

[arapaho2]

Hillis was the starting fullback in week 1, got benched and from then until week 9 he was inactive for a handful of games and relegated to special teams duty in the others.

I'll also remind you that Shanahan has never had a problem starting late round running backs.


bull...the only game he didnt play in was week 5

yes shanny didnt have a problem starting late round rbs...problem is hillis was a late round full back who never played as the primary rb in college...total differance

but then the truth dont matter to you does it...as long as you defend the boy genious:coffee:

[Bosco]

Deflates my stance? How? Hillis was added for depth and had Shanny not been fired there was nothing to show that Hillis would of been traded or cut. Your reaching. Added for what depth? We didn't have one single fullback on the roster besides him until we converted Spencer Larsen and he took Peyton's job. Michael Pittman, a career running back, was the only other one to takes snaps at fullback.


He started over Hillis under McD's regime. Not originally. Hillis was the #3 back behind Moreno and Buckhalter for training camp and the preseason and that didn't change until a couple weeks into the season.

[Northman]

Remember that Turner and Shanahan are looking of certain type of back to run in their ZBS scheme. A back that press the hole, and has feet to cut back. That is not Hillis strength. When Hillis did come in, Denver altered the blocking scheme to incorporate more traps and pulls which allowed Hillis to get move down hill fast. We still ran zone plays but there were more off tackle plays then cut backs.

Funny thing is that style that McDaniels wants to run is that traps, off tackles and pulls that Hillis is suited for.

Funny how Mangini and BB make it work in Cleveland and NE but McGenius cant make it work here. :lol:

[dogfish]

Why would you give him carries when he was very average in the preseason, reportedly slacking off in preseason, making mistakes with the chances he was given and had a productive running back tandem in front of him?

Are you honestly advocating giving him more chances based on physical talent alone? What message does that send to the team?



do i think we should have given a good football player opportunities over a bum like lamont jordan, or walking wounded like buckhalter? absofreakinlutely. . . as poor as ALL of our running backs were last year, there's zero excuse for never giving hillis a shot. . .

it's the job of our coaching staff to identify and develop talent-- it's one of the primary things they get paid for. . . they had this beast sitting right under their noses, and they missed or ignored it. . . they dropped the ball, badly. . . there's no excuse for it, and no justification that makes it any better. . .

[elsid13]

Funny how Mangini and BB make it work in Cleveland and NE but McGenius cant make it work here. :lol:

It not like NE rushing attack is very good. It is average at best and it benefits from having Brady behind center. Problem is, when Brady off they struggle moving the ball because piss poor rushing attack.

[claymore]

do i think we should have given a good football player opportunities over a bum like lamont jordan, or walking wounded like buckhalter? absofreakinlutely. . . as poor as ALL of our running backs were last year, there's zero excuse for never giving hillis a shot. . .

it's the job of our coaching staff to identify and develop talent-- it's one of the primary things they get paid for. . . they had this beast sitting right under their noses, and they missed or ignored it. . . they dropped the ball, badly. . . there's no excuse for it, and no justification that makes it any better. . .

He was a fan favorite none the less. McD reminds me of Nancy Pelosi.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Mangini was fired once. and he has 3 wins this year. over hyping a bit?

[arapaho2]

He was a fan favorite none the less. McD reminds me of Nancy Pelosi.


geee did nancy kick your dog or what:lol:

[Nomad]

He was a fan favorite none the less. McD reminds me of Nancy Pelosi.

I wonder what it would look like if you morph the two faces together!!:D

I bet broncolinguis could do that!!

[Northman]

It not like NE rushing attack is very good. It is average at best and it benefits from having Brady behind center. Problem is, when Brady off they struggle moving the ball because piss poor rushing attack.

True, but if you watch their backs they run north and south not this east/west crap that McD is putting out there using that finesse running style.

[TimTebow15MVP]

It not like NE rushing attack is very good. It is average at best and it benefits from having Brady behind center. Problem is, when Brady off they struggle moving the ball because piss poor rushing attack.

Well actually that was new england last year. BB changed his offense this offseason so that they can develope a running game with more two tightend sets. it has looked good with benjamin running up there in new england. its not consistant yet but its coming along. I like what there running game is becoming.

Mcdaniels must scrap the same offense that BB just scrapped. theres nothing physical about 5 wide reciever sets the whole game....

[Bosco]

do i think we should have given a good football player opportunities over a bum like lamont jordan, or walking wounded like buckhalter? absofreakinlutely. . . as poor as ALL of our running backs were last year, there's zero excuse for never giving hillis a shot. . . Hillis was originally ahead of Jordan and Buckhalter was healthy almost all year and averaging 5.4 yards per carry. How do you possibly put Hillis in over Buckhalter and not send a negative message to the team?


it's the job of our coaching staff to identify and develop talent-- it's one of the primary things they get paid for. . . they had this beast sitting right under their noses, and they missed or ignored it. . . they dropped the ball, badly. . . there's no excuse for it, and no justification that makes it any better. . . And for that to happen you need to have a player dedicated to being developed. It's a two way street.

And since we're talking about coaching, why wasn't Bobby Turner able to get anything out of Hillis in 2009? He's made solid running backs out of much less talented players, so why not Peyton? Could it be because...just maybe...Peyton himself wasn't dedicated like the rumors and scouting report suggest?

[arapaho2]

Well actually that was new england last year. BB changed his offense this offseason so that they can develope a running game with more two tightend sets. it has looked good with benjamin running up there in new england. its not consistant yet but its coming along. I like what there running game is becoming.

Mcdaniels must scrap the same offense that BB just scrapped. theres nothing physical about 5 wide reciever sets the whole game....




but, but, but...mcd is an offensive genious:coffee:

[Northman]

Well actually that was new england last year. BB changed his offense this offseason so that they can develope a running game with more two tightend sets. it has looked good with benjamin running up there in new england. its not consistant yet but its coming along. I like what there running game is becoming.

Mcdaniels must scrap the same offense that BB just scrapped. theres nothing physical about 5 wide reciever sets the whole game....

Holy shit. We agree on something. Hell hath frozen over. :lol:

[Nomad]

True, but if you watch their backs they run north and south not this east/west crap that McD is putting out there using that finesse running style.

Hey North, I'm going to adopt the same player as you....you cool with that!!!

[Bosco]

theres nothing physical about 5 wide reciever sets the whole game.... Physicality has to do with the style of play, not the personnel packages. We also use very few 4 wide sets, much less 5 wide. Our base package is 3 receivers, a tight end and a running back who will sometimes motion out of the backfield.

[Northman]

Hey North, I'm going to adopt the same player as you....you cool with that!!!

Be my guest. The more mojo we can muster the better it will be for all of us. :lol:

[TimTebow15MVP]

Physicality has to do with the style of play, not the personnel packages. We also use very few 4 wide sets, much less 5 wide. Our base package is 3 receivers, a tight end and a running back who will sometimes motion out of the backfield.

id rather our base package look like new englands. with 2 wr, 2 tightend, rb.... it allows them to run the ball better with tightends getting physical banging around linebackers along with the OL. New Englands tightends are also pass catchers so they create big time mis matches which makes there offense a real threat to the point there 6-2. the best thing the patriots did this off season was scrap the mcdaniels offense. Its no wonder why they draft two tightends and then trade randy moss..........

The broncos better trade lloyd and draft dj williams.....Get rid of a weapons, yes but for another weapon at the TE position

[Lonestar]

dread = not a dingleberry (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=310)

I think you misread my post I said that NO ONE prior to his playing thought he was a RB worthy of even drafting. that the RB had to be in the 200-215 mold. and any one 240+ could not possibly be a RB.

Had lots of conversations about that that poll was taken after the season was over and they knew what he could do but 54% still wanted someone else.

[Bosco]

id rather our base package look like new englands. with 2 wr, 2 tightend, rb.... it allows them to run the ball better with tightends getting physical banging around linebackers along with the OL. New Englands tightends are also pass catchers so they create big time mis matches which makes there offense a real threat to the point there 6-2. the best thing the patriots did this off season was scrap the mcdaniels offense. Its no wonder why they draft two tightends and then trade randy moss..........

The broncos better trade lloyd and draft dj williams.....Get rid of a weapons, yes but for another weapon at the TE position

We already do most of our running out of two and three tight end sets.

[Lonestar]

Understand that. That just makes it worse! When, as the writer suggests, there is nothing BUT HILLIS and he is able to destroy the almighty Patriots single handedly than it makes Hillis that much better.

Nobody is suggesting that Hillis be the focus or entire offense but it sure is nice, especially for a coach, to know that if needed a certain player can single handedly carry the offense.

This makes it much worse for McD. Hillis wouldn't need to be the entire O here last year or this year. However, knowing the problems this team has had on O especially running and a banged up D having a Hillis who single handedly keeps the O on the field sure would help :coffee:

Thanks for proving my point!

Not sure how you feel I proved your point.

Players have break out days just as we had a bad day against OAK hillis had a great day against NE. It happens lets see if he does it again this year against a quality team.

I'm guessing if I looked back your posts over the past couple of years I doubt you would have been in the I love hillis minority. But now that it could be considered a fupaw of Josh your all over it.

[Lonestar]

A problem that was pointed out in the same SIGMA test results that I've posted here multiple times. Sounds like after two separate coaching staffs buried his ass on the depth chart that maybe he pulled his head out of his ass.
:salute::salute:
your speaking to the terminally deaf ear.


Situation is different. Lloyd never showed what was promised when he started out so it was easy to see him as a castoff. However, it was pretty easy to see that Hillis was a special player from day one.

If he was so ******* special why did it take mike 13 games (4 preseason 9 reg) and 5 RB in front of him to be injured to notice this special YOU saw.

[Lonestar]

McD let Hillis go because he was coming off major hamstring injury and was third/forth on the RB depth chart to start the season. We also needed an upgrade to our backup QB situation (as Simms was horrible) and Brady Quinn became available. Yes we traded for Tebow but with the Quinn acquisition McD felt comfortable in drafting Tim to be his pet project as Orton and Quinn being his 1 & 2 QB's.
Hillis was a FB who had good receiving skills that could possibly play in our goal line packages but that is all I thought about him.
Good for him that he is putting the kind of season that he is right now. But he isn't a Bronco now, so let it go. Certain players thrive in different environments and I don't think Hillis would thrive in the one back set that we employ 90 % of the time.
:salute::salute:
Wow another voice/mind of reason instead of hate. Thanks for posting although I'm sure you are going to get roasted.

[Ravage!!!]

:salute::salute:
your speaking to the terminally deaf ear.



If he was so ******* special why did it take mike 13 games (4 preseason 9 reg) and 5 RB in front of him to be injured to notice this special YOU saw.

If he's drafted to play FB, and he's practicing to play FB during practices, why would he be getting any playing/practice time at tail back? When he DID get the chance, he showed that/what he could do. WHy is that hard to understand? What difference does it make if he didn't "show" it as getting playing time at FB or not?

Why didn't people recognize what Kurt Warner could do when he was sitting on rosters, or was left open to be taken for FREE when expansion teams came in to the league, and NONE of them took him? What about Priest Holmes? How about a little known RB by the name of Terrell Davis?

Its strange how good people can be when sitting on the bench behind OTHER good players, and yet, the coaches don't get the chance. McD wanted his own guy.

[Northman]

If he was so ******* special why did it take mike 13 games (4 preseason 9 reg) and 5 RB in front of him to be injured to notice this special YOU saw.

Who said it took me 13 games to see it? :lol:

[Dean]

Hillis was originally ahead of Jordan and Buckhalter was healthy almost all year and averaging 5.4 yards per carry. How do you possibly put Hillis in over Buckhalter and not send a negative message to the team?

When Buckhalter was hurt and Moreno was so tired he was asking to be replaced Moreno was left on the field leaving him at risk to injuries. Would placing Peyton in the game rather than punish the entire offense have sent a negative message?


And for that to happen you need to have a player dedicated to being developed. It's a two way street.

This statement assumes that this unnamed source is actually relating an honest evaluation of what transpired. However, even in making that assumption, it's my experience a coach doesn't get much out of a player who knows that he won't be put on the field until hell freezes over.



And since we're talking about coaching, why wasn't Bobby Turner able to get anything out of Hillis in 2009? He's made solid running backs out of much less talented players, so why not Peyton? Could it be because...just maybe...Peyton himself wasn't dedicated like the rumors and scouting report suggest?

Discussing what might have been is much more difficult than discussing what has actually transpired. I can definitely see what he has produced on the field. In 08, he had 68 carries for 5.0 yards per. In the debated 09, the result was 13 carries for 4.3 yards per carry with most in short yardage situations. This year 133 carries for 4.8 yards per carry. Add to those numbers his reception count and it is a formidable body of work.

However, I will play the game. What did you expect Bobby Turner to get out of him on a total of 13 carries the entire year? Even at that he averaged 4.2 yards per carry which was much better than Moreno provided the team. If we use that logic it appears that Turner got more out of Peyton Hillis in his limited time than Moreno provided. Now, is that logical?

[Northman]

If he's drafted to play FB, and he's practicing to play FB during practices, why would he be getting any playing/practice time at tail back? When he DID get the chance, he showed that/what he could do. WHy is that hard to understand? What difference does it make if he didn't "show" it as getting playing time at FB or not?

Why didn't people recognize what Kurt Warner could do when he was sitting on rosters, or was left open to be taken for FREE when expansion teams came in to the league, and NONE of them took him? What about Priest Holmes? How about a little known RB by the name of Terrell Davis?

Its strange how good people can be when sitting on the bench behind OTHER good players, and yet, the coaches don't get the chance. McD wanted his own guy.


Funny how a kid can be given only a few games to prove his worth is a bust but a coach who has a losing record and doesnt seem to know what he is doing is a HOF. :lol:

[Lonestar]

I don't believe that for a second.

He was a FB all the way through college. He blocked for both D. McFadden and Felix Jones.

I doubt he had much of a problem staying at fullback if thats where we wanted him to be.

Actually he was brought in to be a RB and then the next year IIRC they had a chance to bring in mcfadden and jones, at that point he became a FB. Tned would know for sure but that is what I remembered from his Bios.

[nevcraw]

[QUOTE=Bosco;1114294]They tried. Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels both tried him as a fullback. They both eventually benched him for Spencer Larsen.

They both tried him at running back. Under Shanahan he had two good games and a few solid ones. Under McDaniels he ran the wrong pass routes, dropped at least two passes, missed blocking assignments, and didn't know the formations resulting in burnt timeouts.

They both tried Hillis as a kick returner. He averaged 16.3 yards per return under Shanahan. Under McDaniels he fumbled.

It's pretty hard to make the argument that neither Josh or Mike didn't make a concentrated effort to get Hillis involved.

whaaaaaat??

Spin it.. good effort in flipping the universe to make it work your way..

He rattled off 5 TD's in short order under shanny. He was more than solid once becoming a starter.

Hillis was given one game with extensive carriers under MCD - KC. and he ratlled off 75 yds in mop up. other than that he was only seen in spot duty and had 6 KO returns with only 5 of those six going for 20+ yds. + his one fumble. horrible..
how many fumbles did moreno have? and he kept his job little success at his position.

[Lonestar]

Behind other backs that Shanahan thought were equally as good.

equally as good AYE

Rk Player Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM
67 Tatum Bell 44 6.3 249 5.7 35.6 2 37T 11 25.0 3 0 0
76 Andre Hall 35 4.4 144 4.1 18.0 0 16 7 20.0 0 0 2
58 Peyton Hillis 68 5.7 343 5.0 28.6 5 19 24 35.3 0 0 0
60 Michael Pittman 76 9.5 320 4.2 40.0 4 20 25 32.9 1 0 0
78 P.J. Pope 17 3.4 130 7.6 26.0 0 24 6 35.3 2 0 0
93 Ryan Torain 15 7.5 69 4.6 34.5 1 19 4 26.7 0 0 0
61 Selvin Young 61 7.6 303 5.0 37.9 1 49 9 14.8 1 1 1

[Broncos Mtnman]

Please refresh my memory - where is it posted that Gary Miller said there were players in the locker room after the Raider blowout who were griping about Coach McD? Not saying there is not something posted, just can't remember.

And please refresh my memory, where I said that I did NOT believe that story, as I do not recall saying that - may have - just do not recall.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187715&highlight=gary+miller

My bad on saying it was you. I confused you with GEM on that thread.

So, here's a question. Since you believe that Gary wasn't lying about Hillis, do you feel the same way about this story?

After all, he wouldn't have any reason to lie, right?

[Northman]

equally as good AYE

Way to totally misread that post Jr. Bravo mate. I said it was equally as good to Shanahan, not me. Try harder. :beer:

[nevcraw]

McD let Hillis go because he was coming off major hamstring injury .

stopped reading here..

Hillis was traded after over year after his injury, hardly coming off..

[Dzone]

Time to scrap this whole Mcdaniels experiment lest we find ourselves like the dallas Cowboys who kept wade around way too long...Get rid of Mcdaniels NOW!!!!! Before he does any more damage to this once proud franchise. This hillis blunder is just one of many and if he stays, there will be many more mistakes as bad or WORSE

[Lonestar]

Deflates my stance? How? Hillis was added for depth and had Shanny not been fired there was nothing to show that Hillis would of been traded or cut. Your reaching.



He started over Hillis under McD's regime. But we know how great Jordan is.

just might mean that jordan understood the play book also. Josh is big on that having players on the field that do not cost him yards or time outs.

[Northman]

just might mean that jordan understood the play book also. Josh is big on that having players on the field that do not cost him yards or time outs.

Yea, since Maroney and Bucky have done so well in that system. Good point. :salute:

[Lonestar]

Who said it took me 13 games to see it? :lol:

let me type it slower for you..

If he was so ******* special why did it take mike 13 games (4 preseason 9 reg) and 5 RB in front of him to be injured to notice this special YOU saw.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Dzone]

just might mean that jordan understood the play book also. Josh is big on that having players on the field that do not cost him yards or time outs.

How much is Mcdaniels paying you to be his online publicist? Your undying love for the man is obvious. Sounds like he is everything you have ever dreamed of in a coach. Thats cool. Its certainly your prerogative to love him and defend him relentlessly

[Northman]

let me type it slower for you..

If he was so ******* special why did it take mike 13 games (4 preseason 9 reg) and 5 RB in front of him to be injured to notice this special YOU saw.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Because he felt he had a full stable of good backs? :confused:

[jhildebrand]

you dont have to believe it but its true. all you gotta do is get a thing called DVR and watch hillis effort once he was benched as a RB and move to FB permanantly. HE DIDNT EVEN TRY AND THE FILM DIDNT LIE.

Horse shit! Once again you'll be proven to be nothing more than a Tebow fan masquerading as a Bronco fan and McD by extension because he is the only hope your boy gets a shot.

If you knew half of what you were talking about you wouldn't have made that ridiculous comment quoted above.

Late last year the Broncos played Indy in Indy. Three consecutive runs Moreno couldn't pick up 2 yards IIRC. On 4th down they ran almost an identical run to the right. The only difference this time is Hillis was brought in to block for Moreno. A funny thing happened-they got the first down SOLELY because of a Hillis block.

The same scenario worked itself out against Philadelphia in a home game here. Once again Moreno ONLY got the first down after Hillis was brought in to block.

So much for your theory that Hillis quit and the tape don't lie.

Furthermore, as most people tell you this system doesn't use a FB. :lol: We have only seen it because of the running game problems.

So is it Hillis quit or McD eliminated the need for Hillis because his beloved system (see 2-6 with blowout losses) doesn't need a FB.

[Lonestar]

Yea, since Maroney and Bucky have done so well in that system. Good point. :salute:

given the state of the OLINE today not sure what your point is.

[Gimpygod]

See my edit to a previous post.

Why is it so hard to comprehend that it wasn't a poor move. Two different coaching staffs including the excellent Bobby Turner gave him his chance here in Denver. He didn't get it done so he was flipped for a former 1st round quarterback.

Teams aren't going to hold onto these players for all that long, especially when the only investment in them was a 7th round pick.

Here's another place we differ, I believe how much a person can contribute to winning and effectiveness on the field is important when you believe arbitrary draft position is important. Guess which one get you to the playoffs? As an aside what we mean you have to do to raise your ire?

[Lonestar]

sorry wasted way to much time today on this. have a ball might see y'all when I decide to go to bed MNF is on.

[turftoad]

just might mean that jordan understood the play book also. Josh is big on that having players on the field that do not cost him yards or time outs.

I think it's pretty well know that Hillis is no dummy. I'm sure he understood the playbook just fine.

[atwater27]

I see I didn't miss anything the last 2 weeks, save for a loss and some more ex bronco bashing.

[nevcraw]

I think it's pretty well know that Hillis is no dummy. I'm sure he understood the playbook just fine.

how dare you.. If the the almighty MCd decides to trade a player than that player has to be defective. Once a trade or cut is in place the player is forever one or all of the following:

1. Me 1st
2. Stupid
3. Lazy
4. ineffective
5. overrated

[dogfish]

how dare you.. If the the almighty MCd decides to trade a player than that player has to be defective. Once a trade or cut is in place the player is forever one or all of the following:

1. Me 1st
2. Stupid
3. Lazy
4. ineffective
5. overrated

you left out bad scheme fit. . . :listen: