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View Full Version : Info on the current regime not addressing defense through the draft



Jake Klug
11-07-2010, 10:58 PM
19 draft picks in 2 years.
8 picks in the first 2 rounds of those drafts.
2 picks total invested in the front 7. A 1st in 2009 and a 7th in 2010

discuss

broncobryce
11-07-2010, 11:13 PM
The last regime didn't either

Northman
11-07-2010, 11:19 PM
The last regime didn't either

Yea, its always great not to learn from previous mistakes. :lol:

Softskull
11-07-2010, 11:24 PM
The last regime didn't either

Unfortunately, not true.

In 2007, we had a total of four draft picks. We used a 1st, 2nd and 4th on Dline guys.

BroncoSojia
11-08-2010, 12:32 AM
The last regime didn't either

Isn't that the main reason we fired them?

I don't get the point you're trying to make.

Lancane
11-08-2010, 12:55 AM
In 1994 the Broncos had only five draft picks, a second and fourth round pick, along with three seventh round picks. It was the year the Broncos drafted Tom Nalen, Keith Burns and Allen Aldridge.

1995, the Broncos drafted Jamie Brown, Terrell Davis and Byron Chamberlain and had not one pick before the fourth round.

Denver had one of their largest draft classes in 96', twelve picks in all and it was the first time Shanahan officially had that many, let alone a first round pick to use. It was the draft that brought John Mobley to Denver as part of one of the best linebacker tandems of the 90's, Denver also drafted Detron Smith, Darrius Johnson and Tory James.

At this point most of the defensive lineman added were pretty much fodder...

It was 1997 that Denver fans finally saw him use a first round pick on a defensive lineman by selecting Trevor Pryce.

It took four drafts for Shanahan to actually draft a good overall defensive lineman...and it was only his second draft in which he actually had a first round pick to use! In four drafts with more second day picks then anything else he had drafted nine starters, five of which were Pro-Bowlers, three of which have been voted to the AP All Pro Team and two whom are considered Hall of Fame worthy...let's not forget his faith in Rod Smith who was an undrafted free agent!

Not half bad in my estimation...but what do I know?

From 1998 to 2008, Shanahan drafted Brian Griese, Eric Brown, Al Wilson, Olandis Gary, Desmond Clark, Deltha O'neil, Ian Gold, Kennoy Kennedy, Carlisle Cooper, Mike Anderson, Reggie Hayward, Ben Hamilton, Ashley Lelie, Clinton Portis, Jeb Putzier, D.J. Williams, Tatum Bell, Darrent Williams, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Tony Scheffler, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Marcus Thomas, Jarvis Moss, Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Ryan Torain, Peyton Hillis and Spencer Larson.

Not all were that great, or even Pro Bowl caliber, but those above were above average and contributed to this team in many ways. During his tenure he has drafted twelve players to be selected to the Pro Bowl, not including Rod Smith, or those he brought in from Free Agency, like Bill Romanowski, Ed McCaffrey and so forth, and he's had seven named to the AP All Pro Team.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that he was a great evaluator of talent, but he was a good judge when it came down to the final roster and of winning. After all, only a small select few coaches have had more success then did here in Denver.

Point is that, Shanahan was declining in philosophy...it was getting stale, his drafts were improving though as was this team, now it seems to be not getting better, only worse.

Fan in Exile
11-08-2010, 06:25 AM
That's because when you look at the drafts there wasn't anyone to get. You've got a long list of weak rotational guys, people benched for being to fat, 4-3 guys who don't fit the system, and flat out busts.

Lonestar
11-08-2010, 09:37 AM
Unfortunately, not true.

In 2007, we had a total of four draft picks. We used a 1st, 2nd and 4th on Dline guys.

But look how that worked out. Good try.

MT being the only one that might make it out and then only because he was moved from his normal posistion to a new one.
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rcsodak
11-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Hhas drafted offense/defense both yrs. Last year wa Offensive early on. He addressed the D through FA as a BRIDGE. I see him addressing the D sie almost exclusively in '11 with some O sprinkled in.
Just because his D hasnt performed to the standards he felt they would doesnt diminish the fact he DID address it. He realizes, I'm sure, you cant rebuild a team in 2 drafts.
Too bad patience is such a difficult virtue.
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Ravage!!!
11-08-2010, 10:03 AM
WHo cares what the past guys did? What does that have to do with This coaching staff, this team, THESE drafts? Nothing. This is what happens when you come into a team that has a solid offense and BAD defense, and you dismantle to try and rebuild what doesn't need to be rebuilt.

broncofaninfla
11-08-2010, 10:18 AM
I imagine the 2008 offense would have been left intact with Bates calling the plays. No telling who Spags would have drafted on defense but I think it's safe to say Denver wouldn't have a bunch of Patriot rejects. In hindsight I think Denver would be better team at this point.

Fan in Exile
11-08-2010, 10:26 AM
WHo cares what the past guys did? What does that have to do with This coaching staff, this team, THESE drafts? Nothing. This is what happens when you come into a team that has a solid offense and BAD defense, and you dismantle to try and rebuild what doesn't need to be rebuilt.

So who should he have drafted Ravage? Who's your magic bullet? Ron underwhelming Brace? Dan Benched for being to fat Williams? You can't name a guy better than Jamal or Bannan in either of those two drafts so why don't you just drop it.

Softskull
11-08-2010, 10:39 AM
But look how that worked out. Good try.

MT being the only one that might make it out and then only because he was moved from his normal posistion to a new one.
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I think the comment was that Mikey didn't even try to pick Dline guys. It was wrong.

MT is ok. We've kept Moss of some unknown reason and Crowder is playing well in Tampa Bay now.

SR
11-08-2010, 02:47 PM
From 1998 to 2008, Shanahan drafted Brian Griese, Eric Brown, Al Wilson, Olandis Gary, Desmond Clark, Deltha O'neil, Ian Gold, Kennoy Kennedy, Carlisle Cooper, Mike Anderson, Reggie Hayward, Ben Hamilton, Ashley Lelie, Clinton Portis, Jeb Putzier, D.J. Williams, Tatum Bell, Darrent Williams, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Tony Scheffler, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Marcus Thomas, Jarvis Moss, Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Ryan Torain, Peyton Hillis and Spencer Larson.

Cooper Carlisle. You forgot Tim Crowder.

SR
11-08-2010, 02:50 PM
So who should he have drafted Ravage? Who's your magic bullet? Ron underwhelming Brace? Dan Benched for being to fat Williams? You can't name a guy better than Jamal or Bannan in either of those two drafts so why don't you just drop it.


Or you could because Ravage has a valid point.

Lonestar
11-08-2010, 02:59 PM
So who should he have drafted Ravage? Who's your magic bullet? Ron underwhelming Brace? Dan Benched for being to fat Williams? You can't name a guy better than Jamal or Bannan in either of those two drafts so why don't you just drop it.


Great post :salute::salute:
I await the reply also, :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:




I think the comment was that Mikey didn't even try to pick Dline guys. It was wrong.

MT is ok. We've kept Moss of some unknown reason and Crowder is playing well in Tampa Bay now.

Do you really believe after 12 or so years of NOT drafting DL with a few exceptions like price, tovoissi and reagor in the top two rounds, that all of a sudden he turned over a new leaf or just maybe Bates forced his hand to use 3 of the 4 draft choices on DL..

I'm pretty sure this was not mikes idea :laugh::laugh::laugh:

as for Crowder he was totally under whelming here under both regimes.

Moss I have no clue on why he is still here.

TXBRONC
11-08-2010, 03:21 PM
So who should he have drafted Ravage? Who's your magic bullet? Ron underwhelming Brace? Dan Benched for being to fat Williams? You can't name a guy better than Jamal or Bannan in either of those two drafts so why don't you just drop it.

Jamal has played exactly like what he is a 34 year old nose tackle that is past his prime. What has Bannan done?

Brace was drafted 2 years ago so criticism is done in hindsight. Besides that it takes about three year for defensive tackle to develop. Even if J. Williams was playing better he's still just a stop gap.
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silkamilkamonico
11-08-2010, 03:35 PM
Organization is beyond ridiculous. Do us a all a favor, save us the embarassment, and just move to LA.

Everybody here knows, for as bad as it is right now, it's only going to get worse over the next decade. That's pretty much a given with this godforsaken trio of Bowlen/Ellis/McDaniels steering this ship.

silkamilkamonico
11-08-2010, 03:37 PM
I think the comment was that Mikey didn't even try to pick Dline guys. It was wrong.

MT is ok. We've kept Moss of some unknown reason and Crowder is playing well in Tampa Bay now.

As Shanahan started drafting better, his coaching started getting worse. It was some kind of lame tradeoff.

AS far as I'm concerned, it's a hidden trademark of this organization since John Ewlay retired.

claymore
11-08-2010, 05:02 PM
The last regime didn't either

If I remember correctly Shanahan used more high picks on defense than offense.

Not many panned out though. That is a scouting problem. Which we seem to still have.

BigDaddyBronco
11-08-2010, 05:13 PM
If I remember correctly Shanahan used more high picks on defense than offense.

Not many panned out though. That is a scouting problem. Which we seem to still have.

No he always liked to draft LB's and CB's in the 1st round.

Here is a list of his 1st rounders.

1995 No pick
1996 John Mobley Linebacker Kutztown
1997 Trevor Pryce Defensive tackle Clemson
1998 Marcus Nash Wide receiver Tennessee
1999 Al Wilson Linebacker Tennessee
2000 Deltha O'Neal Cornerback California
2001 Willie Middlebrooks Cornerback Minnesota
2002 Ashley Lelie Wide receiver Hawaii
2003 George Foster Offensive tackle Georgia
2004 D. J. Williams Linebacker Miami (FL)
2005 No pick
2006 Jay Cutler Quarterback Vanderbilt
2007 Jarvis Moss Defensive end Florida
2008 Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State


7 to 5 defense over offense

Fan in Exile
11-08-2010, 05:19 PM
Jamal has played exactly like what he is a 34 year old nose tackle that is past his prime. What has Bannan done?

Brace was drafted 2 years ago so criticism is done in hindsight. Besides that it takes about three year for defensive tackle to develop. Even if J. Williams was playing better he's still just a stop gap.
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Yeah and two years ago we brought fields in who played better than Brace has been playing. There just hasn't been anyone in the draft who has been better than the FA, so the point that we didn't draft anyone is complete garbage.

Bosco
11-08-2010, 06:43 PM
The 2009 draft was pretty weak for 3-4 linemen. We tried moving up for the only elite prospect (Raji) while guys like Tyson Jackson and Ron Brace were turned into massive over picks.

2010 wasn't a whole lot better with basically all of the elite talent outside of our range, so we signed three new linemen through free agency.

This year is when we'll probably see some major investment in that position through the draft.

SR
11-08-2010, 07:49 PM
Yeah and two years ago we brought fields in who played better than Brace has been playing. There just hasn't been anyone in the draft who has been better than the FA, so the point that we didn't draft anyone is complete garbage.

Your logic, or lack thereof, is ass backwards.

Krugan
11-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Yeah and two years ago we brought fields in who played better than Brace has been playing. There just hasn't been anyone in the draft who has been better than the FA, so the point that we didn't draft anyone is complete garbage.

Wrong direction, the idea is to draft in young talent and build with the young, not have a turnover of Dline players every 2 years becuase you have had to bring in ancient dline players.

Look at the real defenses out there, most of them have built thru the draft.

Fan in Exile
11-08-2010, 10:15 PM
Your logic, or lack thereof, is ass backwards.


Wrong direction, the idea is to draft in young talent and build with the young, not have a turnover of Dline players every 2 years becuase you have had to bring in ancient dline players.

Look at the real defenses out there, most of them have built thru the draft.

There was no one in the draft pay attention folks.

Krugan
11-08-2010, 10:20 PM
There was no one in the draft pay attention folks.

Its far to simple to dismiss what could have been.

We need look no further than some of the players that have left here and are doing fine elsewhere.

Assuming that the players that where there, in the past 2 drafts, couldnt have made a difference here is to sketchy.

that being said, free agent dline is fine, if your at least attempting to draft in young talent to mold.

Fan in Exile
11-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Its far to simple to dismiss what could have been.

We need look no further than some of the players that have left here and are doing fine elsewhere.

Assuming that the players that where there, in the past 2 drafts, couldnt have made a difference here is to sketchy.

that being said, free agent dline is fine, if your at least attempting to draft in young talent to mold.

There's nothing simple about it. Even during the draft there were huge questions about the people in it. Brace probably just shined because of the help he had on d-line. All the others had weight problems in college so it wasn't a surprise when they struggled.

New England knew Brace's problems and had few spots to fill so they could burn one of their many picks on a back-up. We weren't in that position.

I don't want to draft someone who looks like they won't succeed just to be drafting a body, roster space is way too valuable.

SR
11-09-2010, 12:16 AM
Denver knew about the problems with Crowder, Moss, and Thomas too, but drafted them anyway. You take a gamble and win some of them. Saying Brace "probably shined because of the help he had" is like saying "Terrell Davis probably shined because of the help he had". It's a bullshit argument.

Cugel
11-09-2010, 08:52 PM
That's because when you look at the drafts there wasn't anyone to get. You've got a long list of weak rotational guys, people benched for being to fat, 4-3 guys who don't fit the system, and flat out busts.

2009 Draft. Broncos #12: Knowshon Moreno. Redskins #13: Brian Orakpo.

Broncos #18 Robert Ayers. Packers #26 Clay Matthews.

I could go on, but enough said! :coffee:

Do you REALLY want to get into TRYING TO DEFEND McDaniels insane drafting? He makes Shanahan's worst defensive mistakes look like acts of genius! (Shanny never traded a 1st for a 2nd and wound up with a worthless player he traded away a year later for a scrub and a 5th round pick)!

That's just beyond HORRIBLE drafting! :mad: