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Medford Bronco
11-06-2010, 11:48 AM
I was thinking of this today.

Who is in better shape for the future. The Rams or Broncos?

I say Stl. Spags, even though he started slow has rebounded and the Rams have a chance to win the NFC West, while the Broncos are in an abyss.

Sorry, I have seen nothing but regression on McDaniels part.

Teams that cant finish games.
Sucky special teams
Cant Run the ball
Cant stop the run.

He has been wretched and I dont have confidence in this getting better.

Ready for some to dump on me, but who cares

2-6 is 2-6.

The Rams have a young QB, who is playing and not a QB that we have to hide on the bench. Get him in there, Mr. Genius and see what he can do.

Bronco fan forever, but very disgrunted in most decitions now. :mad:

spikerman
11-06-2010, 12:18 PM
Can't argue with any of that. Of course, I wanted Spags to begin with.

nevcraw
11-06-2010, 12:27 PM
He is building his team with young leaders on both sides of the ball and the team has bought in.. hard to argue with this..

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 12:29 PM
I wanted Spagnuolo or Leslie Frazier. Good thing is Frazier is still available.

I am not advocating the firing of McD but I also don't see any hope for this to turn around.

Northman
11-06-2010, 12:36 PM
Hard to say if Spags would of helped us but considering what is going on there its hard to argue your point. Totally agree with you that i will be a Bronco fan forever but right now the team is at its lowest and doesnt look to be improving.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 12:49 PM
No. Spags is merely a draft position away from being in the position he's currently in. You take away Sam Bradford and that team doesn't have much at all going for it other than Steve Jackson.

Like I've argued in all of these coaching arguments, Denver needs a coach that can get them over the top, not merely float along.

dogfish
11-06-2010, 01:09 PM
No. Spags is merely a draft position away from being in the position he's currently in. You take away Sam Bradford and that team doesn't have much at all going for it other than Steve Jackson.

Like I've argued in all of these coaching arguments, Denver needs a coach that can get them over the top, not merely float along.

do some of you guys honestly just think the quarterback is the only dude on the field??

:noidea:


their defense is giving up 17.6 points per game after giving up 27.2 per game last year. . . but yea, the quarterback is the only reason they're playing better. . .

mmm hmmm. . .

dogfish
11-06-2010, 01:11 PM
i wanted us to get spags something awful, i was seriously bummed when we chose mcdaniels instead. . . and all last year we had to hear about it, how bad he was doing and how stupid it was to want him as our coach. . . funny, no one's saying that shit anymore. . .

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:14 PM
do some of you guys honestly just think the quarterback is the only dude on the field??

:noidea:


their defense is giving up 17.6 points per game after giving up 27.2 per game last year. . . but yea, the quarterback is the only reason they're playing better. . .

mmm hmmm. . .

They've played 2 teams that are currently above .500. Juggernaut NFC teams Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Bucs.

I'm not impressed, especially when you throw in a 44-3 drubbing against the paltry Lions.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:16 PM
i wanted us to get spags something awful, i was seriously bummed when we chose mcdaniels instead. . . and all last year we had to hear about it, how bad he was doing and how stupid it was to want him as our coach. . . funny, no one's saying that shit anymore. . .

It was quite baffling. Going in i thought for sure we were going to get a defensive minded coach considering the offense already had players in place and just needed fine tuning. I had felt better when we hired Nolan but that was obviously short lived.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:17 PM
They've played 2 teams that are currently above .500. Juggernaut NFC teams Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Bucs.

I'm not impressed, especially when you throw in a 44-3 drubbing against the paltry Lions.

The Lions would beat us, same with Tampa. Either way, i doubt they lose to the Raiders.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 01:20 PM
No. Spags is merely a draft position away from being in the position he's currently in. You take away Sam Bradford and that team doesn't have much at all going for it other than Steve Jackson.

Like I've argued in all of these coaching arguments, Denver needs a coach that can get them over the top, not merely float along.

You have no founding to suggest that Spags would just keep us "floating along" considering the success he's having with the team he was given. What evidence do you have to suggest that Spags isn't the guy that could have gotten this DEFENSE over the top, and we still would have had a solid offense.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:20 PM
The Lions would beat us, same with Tampa. Either way, i doubt they lose to the Raiders.

The Lions suck, they are 2-5 for crying out loud. TB has not beat a team that has an above .500 record, and got blown out in the 2 games they did.

I just don't understand this reasoning.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:21 PM
You have no founding to suggest that Spags would just keep us "floating along" considering the success he's having with the team he was given. What evidence do you have to suggest that Spags isn't the guy that could have gotten this DEFENSE over the top, and we still would have had a solid offense.

Spags sucks, and obviously McDaniels sucks. We should have hired Rex Ryan. That's what everyone is missing on. Not to mention, SPags would not have helped out average point scoring offense get better.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 01:22 PM
The Lions suck, they are 2-5 for crying out loud. TB has not beat a team that has an above .500 record, and got blown out in the 2 games they did.

I just don't understand this reasoning.

But the Lions haven't had their starting QB since game one, and are looking good. Throw out the records and watch the team. Detroit is on the rise.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 01:22 PM
Spags sucks, and obviously McDaniels sucks. We should have hired Rex Ryan. That's what everyone is missing on.

Tell Me again how Spags sucks? I'm guessing you have some kind of bias against him, and thats fine. But as of right now, you got nothing to show this is correct.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:23 PM
The Lions suck, they are 2-5 for crying out loud. TB has not beat a team that has an above .500 record, and got blown out in the 2 games they did.

I just don't understand this reasoning.

Its simple reasoning.

There is ALWAYS a team worse than another. Denver is not near as "decent" as Detroit right now. We would get run out of the building.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:24 PM
Tell Me again how Spags sucks? I'm guessing you have some kind of bias against him, and thats fine. But as of right now, you got nothing to show this is correct.

LMAO

He's 5-19 as an NFL head coach. Explain to me your logic for this again?

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:25 PM
Its simple reasoning.

There is ALWAYS a team worse than another. Denver is not near as "decent" as Detroit right now. We would get run out of the building.

We would get run out of the building by probably every team in the league. I don't see an upgrade of 25th, from 32nd, as a storied success like some of you.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:26 PM
LMAO

He's 5-19 as an NFL head coach. Explain to me your logic for this again?

Are you implying that when Spags took over St. Louis was a .500 team? I think the circumstances for in which McD took over was much more positive than what Spags had to deal with coming in. Had Spags too over a .500 team you might have a point but that wasnt the case.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:27 PM
We would get run out of the building by probably every team in the league. I don't see an upgrade of 25th, from 32nd, as a storied success like some of you.

Its not about a storied success, its about looking objectively as the improvements made on other teams. But by all means, spin away G.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Are you implying that when Spags took over St. Louis was a .500 team? I think the circumstances for in which McD took over was much more positive than what Spags had to deal with coming in. Had Spags too over a .500 team you might have a point but that wasnt the case.

LMAO He won 1 game last year. 1. Again. We should have hired Rex Ryan. Ain't that hard.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:29 PM
LMAO He won 1 game last year. 1. Again. We should have hired Rex Ryan. Ain't that hard.

I wouldnt of minded Ryan but again Ryan and McD inherited a better overall team than Spags did. Its not rocket science here.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:30 PM
Its not about a storied success, its about looking objectively as the improvements made on other teams. But by all means, spin away G.

He's improved St Louis to a 4-4 record with 2 blowout losses, 2 quality wins against very questionable above .500 records, and a 2-4 record against no other above .500 team.

Come and talk to me when he actually does something.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:31 PM
I wouldnt of minded Ryan but again Ryan and McD inherited a better overall team than Spags did. Its not rocket science here.

They also play in a significantly better conference, and Ryan a significantly better division.

If you haven't noticed, the NFC is worse now that it was in the early-mid 2000s.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:32 PM
He's improved St Louis to a 4-4 record with 2 blowout losses, 2 quality wins against very questionable above .500 records, and a 2-4 record against no other above .500 wins.

Come and talk to me when he actually does something.


He's beating teams he should, he has that going for him unlike us. I would take that right about now. But, his uphill battle is much harder than ours so we shall see how he does in the next couple of years.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:32 PM
They also play in a significantly better conference, and Ryan a significantly better division.

If you haven't noticed, the NFC is worse now that it was in the early-mid 2000s.

Yea, and the AFCW is SO dominating. :lol:

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:33 PM
He's beating teams he should, he has that going for him unlike us. I would take that right about now. But, his uphill battle is much harder than ours so we shall see how he does in the next couple of years.

Exactly. I'll wait before proclaiming him a success story, rather than ignoring his first 16 games, and focusing on an 8 game stretch, which some people here are doing because they want to compare with McDaniels.

Myself on the other hand, I want a guy that can actually win.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:34 PM
Yea, and the AFCW is SO dominating. :lol:

It's better then the NFCW.

...oops on that one huh?

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:35 PM
Exactly. I'll wait before proclaiming him a success story, rather than ignoring his first 16 games, and focusing on an 8 game stretch, which some people here are doing because they want to compare with McDaniels.

Myself on the other hand, I want a guy that can actually win.

We all want a guy that can win. But trying to compare our situation to St. Louis is ridiculous. They had more work to do than we did. I could understand out situation had we been bottom dwellars when McD came in but that wasnt the case.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:35 PM
It's better then the NFCW.

...oops on that one huh?


Not likely.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:38 PM
We all want a guy that can win. But trying to compare our situation to St. Louis is ridiculous. They had more work to do than we did. I could understand out situation had we been bottom dwellars when McD came in but that wasnt the case.

It's hardly finished from both standards. You're talking like his transfomration has come full circle.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 01:38 PM
you have to look at the improvement of the team. Thats like looking at Detroits record and obviously not watching them play. St Louis is by no means a playoff contender, but it seems that I keep hearing how teams should sit rookie QBs, and how rookie WRs shouldn't be expected to play well for at least 3 years.

St Louis is making strides, and this rookie QB is starting for a team that just went 1 win last season and is playing pretty damned well, without any big time WRs. What has he done? He's quadrupled last years wins already and its halfway through the season, and did it with a rookie QB. He's had ONE blow-out loss and the rest have been within close.

He's done a great job there.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:39 PM
It's hardly finished from both standards. You're talking like his transfomration has come full circle.

Em, nope.

Im talking about seeing one team (ours) regressing while another is showing progressing. Both teams are losing but going in different directions as far as improvements that are being made.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:39 PM
Not likely.

No, very likely. And I love how you slyly tried to throw "the AFCW is so dominating" into the argument, when I never claimed it was. It is however, played in the AFC division, which is significantly better, which I did proclaim, but way to completely miss the boat on that one.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:40 PM
you have to look at the improvement of the team. Thats like looking at Detroits record and obviously not watching them play. St Louis is by no means a playoff contender, but it seems that I keep hearing how teams should sit rookie QBs, and how rookie WRs shouldn't be expected to play well for at least 3 years.

St Louis is making strides, and this rookie QB is starting for a team that just went 1 win last season and is playing pretty damned well, without any big time WRs. What has he done? He's quadrupled last years wins already and its halfway through the season, and did it with a rookie QB. He's had ONE blow-out loss and the rest have been within close.

He's done a great job there.

You would think that would of been self explanatory but people like to argue for the sake of arguing. They are in major denial so this is what we are left with. :tsk:

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:40 PM
Em, nope.

Im talking about seeing one team (ours) regressing while another is showing progressing. Both teams are losing but going in different directions as far as improvements that are being made.

He's done an excellent job progressing them to a mid level team at best. If we wanted a mid level coach, we should have just hung on to Shanahan.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:42 PM
He's done an excellent job progressing them to a mid level team at best. If we wanted a mid level coach, we should have just hung on to Shanahan.

My god dude you are slow. They are now mid level after being bottom level what part of that do you not understand as IMPROVEMENT? We went from mid level to bottom level. Again, not rocket science. If the Rams become bottom dwellars next year you would have a point but they are improving while we are regressing.

broncobryce
11-06-2010, 01:43 PM
It helps to have top 5 picks for the last few years. And the number one pick in last years draft. Wait until Tebow is ready.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:43 PM
If Spags can get them to the playoffs in the this year or next, I can see the argument. Until then, Rex Ryan ftmfw!

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:44 PM
My god dude you are slow. They are now mid level after being bottom level what part of that do you not understand as IMPROVEMENT? We went from mid level to bottom level. Again, not rocket science. If the Rams become bottom dwellars next year you would have a point but they are improving while we are regressing.

yes. Mid level. They haven't won anything yet. It's not rocket scientist.

Rex Ryan actually won something, of major significance.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:44 PM
If Spags can get them to the playoffs in the this year or next, I can see the argument. Until then, Rex Ryan ftmfw!


Rex is great, he also inherited a better team than the Rams. They were already playoff ready when he took over unlike the team Spags had.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:44 PM
yes. Mid level. They haven't won anything yet. It's not rocket scientist.

Rex Ryan actually won something, of major significance.

See above, your arguement is flawed.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:47 PM
Rex is great, he also inherited a better team than the Rams. They were already playoff ready when he took over unlike the team Spags had.

He also won in the playoffs, but hey, who cares about winning in the playoffs when you can turn around a 1-15 season to 4-4 the following year. now THAT"S progression.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:48 PM
See above, your arguement is flawed.

No. You;re completely missing the argument in general. This is the difference of you're perception of progression from bottom tier to mid tier, and my perception of getting a coach that can actually win something of significance.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:49 PM
He also won in the playoffs, but hey, who cares about winning in the playoffs when you can turn around a 1-15 season to 4-4 the following year. now THAT"S progression.

It is when you sucked that bad. But hey, its great when you can go from 8-8 to 2-6 woohoo!

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:50 PM
It is when you sucked that bad. But hey, its great when you can go from 8-8 to 2-6 woohoo!

Way to spin it back on to McDaniels, who everyone here knows is failing miserably. You're really getting somewhere...outstanding!

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:51 PM
No. You;re completely missing the argument in general. This is the difference of you're perception of progression from bottom tier to mid tier, and my perception of getting a coach that can actually win something of significance.


I would hope its easy to win games when you inherit a loaded team. Only our coach could self destruct a mid level team. :lol:

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:52 PM
Way to spin it back on to McDaniels, who everyone here knows is failing miserably. You're really getting somewhere...outstanding!

Thanks!

Too bad you cant tell the difference between a playoff contender and bottom dwellar but continue the great work mate! :salute:

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:54 PM
I would hope its easy to win games when you inherit a loaded team. Only our coach could self destruct a mid level team. :lol:

I would hope it's easy to turn around a defense when you inherit a team that has 3 recent first round picks along the defense. ANd you're wrong again. Plenty of coaches self destructed a mid level team.

Northman
11-06-2010, 01:55 PM
I would hope it's easy to turn around a defense when you inherit a team that has 3 recent first round picks along the defense. ANd you're wrong again. Plenty of coaches self destructed a mid level team.

When you can tell the difference between playoff contenders and bottom dwellars we can revisit this. Until then, your just flapping gums in the wind mate.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:57 PM
Thanks!

Too bad you cant tell the difference between a playoff contender and bottom dwellar but continue the great work mate! :salute:

Too bad you can't tell the difference between upgrading a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 3 seasons to bringing them to the AFCCCG and a team that is 1-15 with rock solid talent because of multiple high draft picks to a 4-4 record!

But continue on with that great logic! ;)

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 01:57 PM
He's done an excellent job progressing them to a mid level team at best. If we wanted a mid level coach, we should have just hung on to Shanahan.

For one.. Shanahan isn't a mid-level coach. We both know it, but I think you are saying it to get a rile out people. He STILL is absolutely one of the best coaches in football.

Two.. yes... if he's done and excellent job of taking a bottom feeding team to mid-level.. then how is that NOT doing an excellent job? You think a 1 win team is something to expect playoffs in one year?

You don't think Rex Ryan inherited a btetter team than Spags did? How is this even in the same conversation?

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 01:58 PM
When you can tell the difference between playoff contenders and bottom dwellars we can revisit this. Until then, your just flapping gums in the wind mate.

It's harder to win in the playoffs, then it is to win in the regular season. Until you figure that out, I can't help you.

Northman
11-06-2010, 02:00 PM
Too bad you can't tell the difference between upgrading a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 3 seasons to bringing them to the AFCCCG and a team that is 1-15 with rock solid talent because of multiple high draft picks to a 4-4 record!

But continue on with that great logic! ;)

Who said that Ryan didnt upgrade the Jets? Thats not whats being argued here. The difference is where those respective teams were when they were taken over. St. Louis wasnt a mid level team when they were taken over so it is going to take MORE work to fix that problem. I know your not dumb so why is it your acting like it? Doesnt make any sense.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 02:01 PM
For one.. Shanahan isn't a mid-level coach. We both know it, but I think you are saying it to get a rile out people. He STILL is absolutely one of the best coaches in football.

That's a matter of opinion. Some people think he's one of the best coaches in football like someone else thinks Al Davis is till on of the best owners in football. I'm sorry, but results speak for themselves. He hasn't done anything since 2005 to show he's one of the best coaches in football, and he hasn't done anything since 1998 to show he's one of the best coaches in the playoffs in football. I'm not taking his far past away from him, but he is most certainly in a state of "show me something".


You don't think Rex Ryan inherited a btetter team than Spags did? How is this even in the same conversation?



Why go there? I never said anything remotely close to that.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 02:03 PM
Who said that Ryan didnt upgrade the Jets? Thats not whats being argued here. The difference is where those respective teams were when they were taken over. St. Louis wasnt a mid level team when they were taken over so it is going to take MORE work to fix that problem. I know your not dumb so why is it your acting like it? Doesnt make any sense.

That's why I'm arguing. I've been arguing that since I brought up Rex Ryan. Like I said in post #45, we're not even arguing the same thing. I'm sticking with my argument, just like you're sticking with yours.

Northman
11-06-2010, 02:05 PM
That's why I'm arguing. I've been arguing that since I brought up Rex Ryan. Like I said in post #45, we're not even arguing the same thing. I'm sticking with my argument, just like you're sticking with yours.

Ok, but it doesnt make any sense to this thread so i still dont understand why you would bring Ryan up. I mean, i would agree that when McD took over we should already be playoff contenders but the discussion was McD vs Spags who had a more uphill battle than McD. So why even bring Ryan into the debate?

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 02:08 PM
Ok, but it doesnt make any sense to this thread so i still dont understand why you would bring Ryan up. I mean, i would agree that when McD took over we should already be playoff contenders but the discussion was McD vs Spags who had a more uphill battle than McD. So why even bring Ryan into the debate?

OK, this has been the argument. People here wanted Spags because he has upgraded his team. I won't argue with that, but he hasn't shown me anything that would make me want him hired as the coach for the Broncos. I was happy with McDaniels, but McDaniels has failed miserably. I want a coach that can come in here and win, not just show a little building progression. Coaches all over the NFL show little progressions at times. Hell, McDaniels did last year before falling flat on his face.


Rex Ryan has upgraded, and won 2 game sin the playoffs. Ryans' run in the playoffs last year was something just short of miraculous. 2 playoff wins on the road? That beats a progression to 4-4 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. If we arguing about wanting Spags, why stop at Spags...I'll take Ryan.

Spags would have to show me a hell of a lot more than a 4-4 record to make me wish he was coaching here.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 02:11 PM
I think I get it. Silk is responding to the OP saying we should have hired Spags instead of McD. Silke is saying, no, we should have hired Ryan instead of McD.

But the debate came about, when Silk suggeseted that Spags isn't a very good coach... thats what led to the comparisons between what Ryan has done and what Spags has done. I think its silly to say that Spags hasn't accomplished anything, and in fact, could very well make the case that Spags could have taken over a 9-7 team and turned them into another 9-7 team that Ryan did. Could Ryan have turned things around in St Louis? :whoknows: Maybe... and even probably. But lets not take away from Spags for turning a 2 win team into a now 4-4 team and act as if thats not a bigger accomplishment.

Taking a team that went 9-7 and didn't make the playoffs becaus of the other teams, and a 9-7 team that DID make the playoffs because of what the other teams did, isn't much different. Did the Jets over-accomplish last year... absolutely. Have the Rams over-accomplished THIS year..... absolutely.

silkamilkamonico
11-06-2010, 02:14 PM
I think I get it. Silk is responding to the OP saying we should have hired Spags instead of McD. Silke is saying, no, we should have hired Ryan instead of McD.
But the debate came about, when Silk suggeseted that Spags isn't a very good coach... thats what led to the comparisons between what Ryan has done and what Spags has done. I think its silly to say that Spags hasn't accomplished anything, and in fact, could very well make the case that Spags could have taken over a 9-7 team and turned them into another 9-7 team that Ryan did. Could Ryan have turned things around in St Louis? :whoknows: Maybe... and even probably. But lets not take away from Spags for turning a 2 win team into a now 4-4 team and act as if thats not a bigger accomplishment.

Taking a team that went 9-7 and didn't make the playoffs becaus of the other teams, and a 9-7 team that DID make the playoffs because of what the other teams did, isn't much different. Did the Jets over-accomplish last year... absolutely. Have the Rams over-accomplished THIS year..... absolutely.

Thank you!!

Ryan has a finished story that has been told. He's won 2 playoff games. That's achievement IMHO.

Spags has upgraded his team and is sitting at 4-4. I'll wait and see with him. I learned from not waiting and seeing with McDaniels. Spags is going in the right direction, but can he continue that progression? I guess we'll see.

Medford Bronco
11-06-2010, 02:15 PM
They've played 2 teams that are currently above .500. Juggernaut NFC teams Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Bucs.

I'm not impressed, especially when you throw in a 44-3 drubbing against the paltry Lions.

right and Denver has played very well, especially getting destroyed by their arch rival at home

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 02:16 PM
Rex Ryan has upgraded, and won 2 game sin the playoffs. Ryans' run in the playoffs last year was something just short of miraculous. 2 playoff wins on the road? That beats a progression to 4-4 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. If we arguing about wanting Spags, why stop at Spags...I'll take Ryan.

Spags would have to show me a hell of a lot more than a 4-4 record to make me wish he was coaching here.

This is where you stop hitting home with us, I believe. You think that because their team (JEts) was a 9-7 team, they shouldn't be expected to make any splashes in the playoffs. Yet, a team that won 2 games bfeore being taken over, isn't showing much accomplishments because Spags haven't taken them from 2 wins to the playoffs.... yet. To you, this isn't as big of an accomplishment as winning 2 more games than the season before....like with Ryan.

We'll just have to absolutely agree to disagree. Because Ryan had a TON more to start with than Spags. But hey..... thats what the board is about.

Northman
11-06-2010, 02:16 PM
OK, this has been the argument. People here wanted Spags because he has upgraded his team. I won't argue with that, but he hasn't shown me anything that would make me want him hired as the coach for the Broncos. I was happy with McDaniels, but McDaniels has failed miserably. I want a coach that can come in here and win, not just show a little building progression. Coaches all over the NFL show little progressions at times. Hell, McDaniels did last year before falling flat on his face.


Rex Ryan has upgraded, and won 2 game sin the playoffs. Ryans' run in the playoffs last year was something just short of miraculous. 2 playoff wins on the road? That beats a progression to 4-4 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. If we arguing about wanting Spags, why stop at Spags...I'll take Ryan.

Spags would have to show me a hell of a lot more than a 4-4 record to make me wish he was coaching here.

Well, my only point is had Spags come here the progressions he would of made most likely would of been more on the defensive side of the ball. I doubt that there would of been the turmoil with Jay, etc. So considering the progression he made with St. Louis so far wouldnt you at least consider that he would of had us in the playoffs considering where we were as opposed to St. Louis? I would think so.

Northman
11-06-2010, 02:18 PM
I think I get it. Silk is responding to the OP saying we should have hired Spags instead of McD. Silke is saying, no, we should have hired Ryan instead of McD.



Well, of course i like Ryan better than Spags but to my recollection Ryan got hired prior to last year, not the year that Spags and McD got hired. So, is Silk saying we should of fired McD last year and hired Ryan? I agree about the choice but the choice wasnt there when we were looking. At least i dont think he was.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 02:18 PM
Thank you!!

Ryan has a finished story that has been told. He's won 2 playoff games. That's achievement IMHO.

Spags has upgraded his team and is sitting at 4-4. I'll wait and see with him. I learned from not waiting and seeing with McDaniels. Spags is going in the right direction, but can he continue that progression? I guess we'll see.

Same can be said with Ryan, though. The season isn't over. If Ryan doesn't make it to the AFC Championship game, doesn't that mean he dropped down this season and didn't continue to progress??

Spags has shown just as much ability to progress in his seasons and with his team than Ryan has, so far. Winning two playoff games with a MUCH MUCH better team that was a WINNING team the season before is great...but did he really show that much IMPROVEMENT over the team before.... or are you NOT looking at IMPROVEMENT and just looking at records?

It seems to me all you are doing is looking at the records, and not looking at how a team is progressing from their starting points.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 02:19 PM
Well, of course i like Ryan better than Spags but to my recollection Ryan got hired prior to last year, not the year that Spags and McD got hired. So, is Silk saying we should of fired McD last year and hired Ryan? I agree about the choice but the choice wasnt there when we were looking. At least i dont think he was.

All three were hired the same year....

Northman
11-06-2010, 02:23 PM
All three were hired the same year....

Ok, yea im confusing myself.

Definitely cant argue the Ryan hire as i do like him seeing how he was in Bmore. But, had Ryan taken over the Rams i dont think they would of been playoff bound right now. Just two different teams in two different situations.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Ok, yea im confusing myself.

Definitely cant argue the Ryan hire as i do like him seeing how he was in Bmore. But, had Ryan taken over the Rams i dont think they would of been playoff bound right now. Just two different teams in two different situations.

Thats how I see it. IF it was changed to where RYan was in St Louis, then the Rams would still not be a playoff contender. Spags could still be having the same success in Jets, but maybe with slightly different personnel.

broncofaninfla
11-06-2010, 02:42 PM
Spags has the Rams playing some game ball. Mcd's Broncos are regressing while Spags Rams are progressing. I'd def give the edge to Spags right now. Things look bright for the Rams, not so much for Denver. BUT there is still another half of football, I'm praying this is when Denver turns it around and finishes out the season strong.

Dzone
11-06-2010, 03:16 PM
Fire Mcdaniels and hire rob ryan..thats if cowher or gruden arent available

rationalfan
11-06-2010, 03:18 PM
don't forget, the broncos interviewed raheem morris too (or, at least, they wanted to). he's blowing mcd and spags away right now.

rationalfan
11-06-2010, 03:20 PM
Fire Mcdaniels and hire rob ryan..thats if cowher or gruden arent available

great in theory, but what could those coaches do with the current roster that isn't happening now? i don't think it makes sense to fire mcd this season because the next coach will want another house cleaning, meaning two more years of mediocrity or worse.

at least if mcd stays the system doesn't change. i'd still like to see how everything shakes out with a healthy dumerville and an offensive line with a little more experience.

Lancane
11-06-2010, 03:21 PM
I'd have to say I agree with Silk, Ryan would have been a better hire...

He'd have no reason to have drafted Sanchez with Cutler here, he would have no need to over exert his draft picks and to trade to add more wide receiver talent. Meaning he could have used a plethora of picks to upgrade both lines and the defense in whole; we'd likely have Shottenheimer as our offensive coordinator, obviously have a better running game. Ryan would have likely had us in the playoffs this year, if not the year before.

Spagnuolo though would have been a better pick then McDaniels in my opinion as well, so would have Garrett in my honest opinion.

Lancane
11-06-2010, 03:24 PM
great in theory, but what could those coaches do with the current roster that isn't happening now? i don't think it makes sense to fire mcd this season because the next coach will want another house cleaning, meaning two more years of mediocrity or worse.

at least if mcd stays the system doesn't change. i'd still like to see how everything shakes out with a healthy dumerville and an offensive line with a little more experience.

So your willing to endure possibly two more years of mediocrity, and possibly see us rebuild for a second time in a four to five year period? I'd rather just get the rebuilding over with and start seeing some real football...this team couldn't compete in the XFL if you remember that joke of a league.

dogfish
11-06-2010, 03:26 PM
Spags sucks, and obviously McDaniels sucks. We should have hired Rex Ryan. That's what everyone is missing on. Not to mention, SPags would not have helped out average point scoring offense get better.

was this meant to be humorous?

:laugh:

spags sucks. . . man, do you even know what a dumptruck load of fail you just spilled? yea. . . a ten point per game swing is insignificant, and spags sucks. . .

nice. . .

i assume you didn't watch that super bowl where his game planning and brilliant blitz packages and mixed coverages destroyed the highest-scoring offense in the history of the game, and beat the 18-0 pats. . . utter virtuoso performance-- and you think the guy "sucks?" :lol: dude, open your eyes!

you're crazy if you think taking the rams from 1-15 to 4-4 and a half-game out of the lead in his division isn't impressive. . . that team was utterly devoid of talent when he got there. . . i won't say that i would have been opposed to rex ryan either-- he's a damn good coach-- but it's silly to act as though he's so much better because a few teams laid down and let them in the playoffs last year. . .

you talk about "what's spags won?" that ring counts for something. . . where's rex's trophy for a couple playoff wins? how many division titles or conference titles has he won? so don't make him pocket lombardi just yet. . .

no disrespect torex, i am impressed with the job he's done. . . but don't forget he inherited a freaking TON of stud talent. . . nick mangold's the best center in the game, ferguson is a blue chip left tackle, he had faneca last year, and woody and moore are way better than solid. . . they had thomas jones and leon washington. . . plus shaun ellis, david harris, bryan thomas, sione pouha, calvin pace. . . and some dude named darelle revis, who played a bit of a role in their sucess last year. . .

spagnuolo got steven jackson, that's IT. . . he's done a great job of turning over the roster, and it goes well beyond bradford-- like jason brown (FA last year), mark clayton (last minute trade) and james lauranaitis (2nd round pick). . . he and his coaching staff are also doing a great job getting production out of guys who were underperforming for the previous regime. . . his defense is generating pressure, getting after QBs and being disruptive. . .

if you can't see what a good coaching job that is relative to the situation he inherited, i don't know what else to say. . . if you have to wait until a guy's won a super bowl to call him a good coach, it's your choice i suppose. . .

Bosco
11-06-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't think it would have mattered much. I like Spags alot but would our course have really been much different if he was here? Cutler still would have ended up traded had he pulled his stunt on Spags, Marshall probably would have been dealt with earlier and more harshly, ditto for Scheffler. We still would have seen massive turnover on the roster and the coaching staff, which probably would have included dumping Turner and Dennison right off the bat. Oh, and we'd still be a 4-3 defense, which I'm not real fond of.

Lancane
11-06-2010, 03:46 PM
I don't think it would have mattered much. I like Spags alot but would our course have really been much different if he was here? Cutler still would have ended up traded had he pulled his stunt on Spags, Marshall probably would have been dealt with earlier and more harshly, ditto for Scheffler. We still would have seen massive turnover on the roster and the coaching staff, which probably would have included dumping Turner and Dennison right off the bat. Oh, and we'd still be a 4-3 defense, which I'm not real fond of.

Purely speculative...we have no idea if it would have been the same Bosco, but everyone is basing their opinions of the success he's had thus far showing progress compared to McDaniels. Spagnuolo possibly wouldn't have had the issues with Cutler or Marshall, we will never know...but neither do you. If history have proven anything it is that head coaches who make such radical movements and such little progress are usually failures.

Softskull
11-06-2010, 03:51 PM
I don't think it would have mattered much. I like Spags alot but would our course have really been much different if he was here? Cutler still would have ended up traded had he pulled his stunt on Spags, Marshall probably would have been dealt with earlier and more harshly, ditto for Scheffler. We still would have seen massive turnover on the roster and the coaching staff, which probably would have included dumping Turner and Dennison right off the bat. Oh, and we'd still be a 4-3 defense, which I'm not real fond of.

What makes you think he would have changed out much on the offense, especially Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler? Spags runs a west coast offense so why would he dismantle the team? And as the HC in St. Louis, he’s kept on quality position coaches from previous regimes. I don’t think anyone would have objected if he dropped all existing defensive coaches from 2008.

Northman
11-06-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't think it would have mattered much. I like Spags alot but would our course have really been much different if he was here? Cutler still would have ended up traded had he pulled his stunt on Spags, Marshall probably would have been dealt with earlier and more harshly, ditto for Scheffler. We still would have seen massive turnover on the roster and the coaching staff, which probably would have included dumping Turner and Dennison right off the bat. Oh, and we'd still be a 4-3 defense, which I'm not real fond of.

Based off what? I seriously doubt Spags would of humored a trade talk for Jay. Marshall, maybe. But even that is just speculation as Miami doesnt seem to be having any issues with Marshall.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 03:59 PM
As long as we're speculating - I don't think Spags would have traded off or changed the offense much. He knows his forte is defense and Denver's offense was effective outside of the red zone. He could have left Bates as the OC, kept most of the rest of the offensive staff and players intact, and focused on his strength and the team's greatest need - defense. He also could have left the Goodmans in place to help out with personnel issues.

Bosco
11-06-2010, 04:37 PM
And as the HC in St. Louis, he’s kept on quality position coaches from previous regimes. Spags only kept one coach from the 2008 staff, and that was the OL coach.


Based off what? I seriously doubt Spags would of humored a trade talk for Jay. Marshall, maybe. But even that is just speculation as Miami doesnt seem to be having any issues with Marshall.

Spags made it pretty clear right off the bat that he was looking to ditch Marc Bulger and publicly courted Josh Freeman and then cut him outright after the season and went on to take Bradford. Career Rams and likely Hall of Famers Orlando Pace and Torry Holt first got wind of their imminent release when Spags sent out a team wide memo on his new organizational approach of team first play and individual accountability and neither Pace or Holt were mailed a copy. Those moves were significantly harsher than the ones that brought so much teeth gnashing from the Denver faithful.

And sure, if Spags was here then the chances of both Tampa Bay and Detroit approaching him about a Cassel/Cutler three way trade are slim and none, but then the problem would have just manifested itself elsewhere.

We can argue the "what if's" all day long, but the one thing we do know is that Spags and McDaniels share pretty similar philosophies on rebuilding teams and that comes with a high probability of tension with the same players who didn't deal well with that when McDaniels did it.

One last thing to add, the guys wishing for some all powerful GM to over see things would be greatly disappointed with Spags here. He, like McDaniels, has pretty much final say on any player and coaching staff decisions while GM Billy Devaney...like Xanders...is mainly relegated to contracts and salary cap issues.

Bosco
11-06-2010, 04:38 PM
He also could have left the Goodmans in place to help out with personnel issues.

Neither he nor McDaniels would have had any say in that issue.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 04:40 PM
Neither he nor McDaniels would have had any say in that issue.

You honestly don't believe McDaniels had anything to do with their departure?

Softskull
11-06-2010, 04:48 PM
Spags only kept one coach from the 2008 staff, and that was the OL coach.


Nope, WR coach too. Nolan Cromwell has been there for years. Which I think is my point, he didn't go whilly nilly dropping people there, not sure why you'd think he'd anything different here. Hell, Shanny's offense was close to what he wants to run there in St. Louis. More reason to keep the guys.

Softskull
11-06-2010, 04:54 PM
Spags made it pretty clear right off the bat that he was looking to ditch Marc Bulger and publicly courted Josh Freeman and then cut him outright after the season and went on to take Bradford. Career Rams and likely Hall of Famers Orlando Pace and Torry Holt first got wind of their imminent release when Spags sent out a team wide memo on his new organizational approach of team first play and individual accountability and neither Pace or Holt were mailed a copy. Those moves were significantly harsher than the ones that brought so much teeth gnashing from the Denver faithful.


WHAT? Pace...out of the league after being humiliated in Chicago. Holt..same. Bulger...backup somewhere. Culter, Marshall and Scheffler (I'll keep the list short) are all active members of their respective teams. You cant compare three guys with one foot in the grave with three star second year players. :tsk:

Bosco
11-06-2010, 04:54 PM
You honestly don't believe McDaniels had anything to do with their departure?

Why do you believe he did? The only real influence McDaniels apparently had on the situation is that he seemingly got along better with Xanders.

Enough has been leaked out now that we can piece the story together with relative certainty. Jim Goodman (the father) was largely regarded as the guy Bowlen wanted to be GM, but he did not want to take that job so the spot could be open for Jeff (his son) who was working as a sort of co-GM with Xanders through 2008 into early 2009. When that happened, Bowlen was effectively forced to choose between Jeff and Xanders for the job. Xanders was chosen, and the commonly accepted theory is that it mainly came down to who had the better working relationship with his peers, which Jeff was apparently lacking in.

After that, apparently Jeff didn't take well to getting passed over and the decision was made to break ties with him. Bowlen then decided to send Jim packing as well not because he had done anything wrong but because Bowlen did not want to put him in a position of being forced to choose between loyalty to his son and his career.

There are of course, some mild variations of those happenings depending on which source you use, but the gist of it is still the same and nothing even remotely verifiable has been put out saying that it was McDaniels choice to make or that he would have even had enough power to do so had he wanted.

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:04 PM
Spags made it pretty clear right off the bat that he was looking to ditch Marc Bulger and publicly courted Josh Freeman and then cut him outright after the season and went on to take Bradford. Career Rams and likely Hall of Famers Orlando Pace and Torry Holt first got wind of their imminent release when Spags sent out a team wide memo on his new organizational approach of team first play and individual accountability and neither Pace or Holt were mailed a copy. Those moves were significantly harsher than the ones that brought so much teeth gnashing from the Denver faithful.

Uh, no they werent. Bulger, Holt, and Pace are all aging and not young players going into their prime.


And sure, if Spags was here then the chances of both Tampa Bay and Detroit approaching him about a Cassel/Cutler three way trade are slim and none, but then the problem would have just manifested itself elsewhere.

Again, more speculation on your part.


We can argue the "what if's" all day long, but the one thing we do know is that Spags and McDaniels share pretty similar philosophies on rebuilding teams and that comes with a high probability of tension with the same players who didn't deal well with that when McDaniels did it.

Same philosphies but different approaches regarding the talent on the teams. Getting rid of players who no longer make the impacts they once did is a far cry from ditching young talented players who having something to give.

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:05 PM
WHAT? Pace...out of the league after being humiliated in Chicago. Holt..same. Bulger...backup somewhere. Culter, Marshall and Scheffler (I'll keep the list short) are all active members of their respective teams. You cant compare three guys with one foot in the grave with three star second year players. :tsk:

Yep. Not even close in comparison.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 05:05 PM
Why do you believe he did? The only real influence McDaniels apparently had on the situation is that he seemingly got along better with Xanders.

Enough has been leaked out now that we can piece the story together with relative certainty. Jim Goodman (the father) was largely regarded as the guy Bowlen wanted to be GM, but he did not want to take that job so the spot could be open for Jeff (his son) who was working as a sort of co-GM with Xanders through 2008 into early 2009. When that happened, Bowlen was effectively forced to choose between Jeff and Xanders for the job. Xanders was chosen, and the commonly accepted theory is that it mainly came down to who had the better working relationship with his peers, which Jeff was apparently lacking in.

After that, apparently Jeff didn't take well to getting passed over and the decision was made to break ties with him. Bowlen then decided to send Jim packing as well not because he had done anything wrong but because Bowlen did not want to put him in a position of being forced to choose between loyalty to his son and his career.

There are of course, some mild variations of those happenings depending on which source you use, but the gist of it is still the same and nothing even remotely verifiable has been put out saying that it was McDaniels choice to make or that he would have even had enough power to do so had he wanted. All of the information the public knows about the sitiuation is second hand. What I do know for a fact is that a mere matter of weeks before the Goodmans were let go and before McDaniels was hired, Pat Bowlen was adamant that there would be no changes to the personnel department. Something changed within that time and the only thing we know for sure is that McDaniels was brought aboard.

Pat Bowlen also said that he would not give as much power to a coach as he had to Shanahan. Since that statement it's become clear that he has indeed given McDaniels that same power. No, I can't prove that McDaniels had the Goodmans removed just like nobody else can prove he didn't. I will only say as I look at the situation, that I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night.

Bosco
11-06-2010, 05:06 PM
Nope, WR coach too. Nolan Cromwell has been there for years. Which I think is my point, he didn't go whilly nilly dropping people there, not sure why you'd think he'd anything different here. Hell, Shanny's offense was close to what he wants to run there in St. Louis. More reason to keep the guys.

Wrong. Cromwell was the OC for Texas A&M in 2008 and 2009. Here's the press release from him getting hired with the Rams this year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/10/rams-hire-nolan-cromwell-as-receivers-coach/


WHAT? Pace...out of the league after being humiliated in Chicago. Holt..same. Bulger...backup somewhere. Culter, Marshall and Scheffler (I'll keep the list short) are all active members of their respective teams. You cant compare three guys with one foot in the grave with three star second year players. :tsk: Their production value at that stage in their careers is completely irrelevant. They were still career Rams who were critical parts of the Super Bowl teams and were immensely popular and well respected within the locker room, yet were dumped unceremoniously and without warning by a first time head coach. I don't think it was a bad move personally, but can you imagine how the fragile ones here in both the fanbase and locker room would have reacted had Josh started discarding players like Ben Hamilton and D.J Williams? As it stands, the only player of note who McDaniels cut bait on was Cutler. Everyone else was at least given a chance in 2009.

Bosco
11-06-2010, 05:18 PM
All of the information the public knows about the sitiuation is second hand. What I do know for a fact is that a mere matter of weeks before the Goodmans were let go and before McDaniels was hired, Pat Bowlen was adamant that there would be no changes to the personnel department. Something changed within that time and the only thing we know for sure is that McDaniels was brought aboard. Just because two events coincide on a timeline does not mean they are connected. It would be like me blaming myself for the house across the street blowing up because I happened to turn on my furnace at that exact time.

And as it stands, I think it's pretty clear what changed, and that was Jim Goodman not wanting the GM job. Had he taken it, Bowlen's words about no changes would have likely come true.


Pat Bowlen also said that he would not give as much power to a coach as he had to Shanahan. Since that statement it's become clear that he has indeed given McDaniels that same power. Actually Bowlen has followed through on that. With the exception of some of Sundquist's time here, Shanahan was very hands on in matters related to the cap, contract negotiations and the day to day football operations. He more or less played owner with Bowlen's money, even going as far as to want a new practice facility built. Now those powers are split between Ellis (day to day operations) Xanders (cap and contracts) and McDaniels (everything actually on the football field) and they all independently report to Bowlen who has the ultimate final say.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 05:29 PM
Just because two events coincide on a timeline does not mean they are connected. It would be like me blaming myself for the house across the street blowing up because I happened to turn on my furnace at that exact time.

And as it stands, I think it's pretty clear what changed, and that was Jim Goodman not wanting the GM job. Had he taken it, Bowlen's words about no changes would have likely come true.
Your example doesn't have merit in this case. In your scenario there is no physical way the two events can be related. The scenario which I believe happened is much more in the realm of possibility (and in fact is likely).



Actually Bowlen has followed through on that. With the exception of some of Sundquist's time here, Shanahan was very hands on in matters related to the cap, contract negotiations and the day to day football operations. He more or less played owner with Bowlen's money, even going as far as to want a new practice facility built. Now those powers are split between Ellis (day to day operations) Xanders (cap and contracts) and McDaniels (everything actually on the football field) and they all independently report to Bowlen who has the ultimate final say. I seem to remember a few years ago that the Broncos hired the guy who designed the NFL's salary cap. I'll have to do some research to find it, but that was under Shanahan's reign and I have never seen any evidence that Shanahan was directly responsible for negotiating contracts. He may have had final approval, but I doubt he got buried in that amount of minutea.

Edit*** I don't remember if this is the guy or not, but here's an article from way back in 1997 about the Broncos hiring a salary cap expert. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NFL+TEAMS+ADD+ANOTHER+JOB%3a+SALARY+CAP+MANAGER+NE W+SUPERVISORS+WIELD...-a064844778

Softskull
11-06-2010, 05:43 PM
Wrong. Cromwell was the OC for Texas A&M in 2008 and 2009. Here's the press release from him getting hired with the Rams this year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/10/rams-hire-nolan-cromwell-as-receivers-coach/.

Oops, my bad. For some reason I thought he retired from the Rams to coaching the Rams.




Their production value at that stage in their careers is completely irrelevant.

Only if you have a third grade understanding of football. Since you were comparing, and because they were particularly bad comparisons, let me give you a good one. If Spags had traded off Steve Jackson and, well they didn't really have anyone else on the team, but imagine if Chris Long and Laurinaitis had been there...but he traded them off. Now that's a fine comparison.

And Josh's first move was to throw out the team favorite, good locker guy Special Teams Captain and bring in his own guy.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:43 PM
The 3 guys I wanted were Spags, Rex, and McD. I really wanted a defensive minded guy actually but I had no problem with McD and I still don't.

I love how people wait til Spags has a .500 record to talk. But no one said they wanted Spags last year when he was 1-15. Why do people want him now that hes 4-4? :lol: Wishy washy fans.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 05:46 PM
The 3 guys I wanted were Spags, Rex, and McD. I really wanted a defensive minded guy actually but I had no problem with McD and I still don't.

I love how people wait til Spags has a .500 record to talk. But no one said they wanted Spags last year when he was 1-15. Why do people want him now that hes 4-4? :lol: Wishy washy fans.

To be fair, at this point a lot of fans would like just about anybody else.

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:47 PM
The 3 guys I wanted were Spags, Rex, and McD. I really wanted a defensive minded guy actually but I had no problem with McD and I still don't.

I love how people wait til Spags has a .500 record to talk. But no one said they wanted Spags last year when he was 1-15. Why do people want him now that hes 4-4? :lol: Wishy washy fans.


Have you not read the thread? You might want to do that before assuming what is people are talking about.

What McD inherited is far better than what Spags inherited. So the fact that people see improvement in the Rams while watching us regress is the point of conversation here. Pretty simple conversation to follow as long as your actually read the thread.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:49 PM
Have you not read the thread? You might want to do that before assuming what is people are talking about.

What McD inherited is far better than what Spags inherited. So the fact that people see improvement in the Rams while watching us regress is the point of conversation here. Pretty simple conversation to follow as long as your actually read the thread.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Classic. I sure hope the Rams show improvement. I'd hate to see them get any worse then 1-15. :lol: Spags took over a 2-14 team and made them 1-15, before having the #1 overall pick in the draft. So I'm sure glad the Rams are improving. It'd be pretty sad if they got worse.

:lol:

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:50 PM
To be fair, at this point a lot of fans would like just about anybody else.

Like I said. A lot of wishy washy fans. I know this.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 05:52 PM
Like I said. A lot of wishy washy fans. I know this.

Nope, fans who aren't satisfied with the current state of their favorite team.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 05:52 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Classic. I sure hope the Rams show improvement. I'd hate to see them get any worse then 1-15. :lol: Spags took over a 2-14 team and made them 1-15, before having the #1 overall pick in the draft. So I'm sure glad the Rams are improving. It'd be pretty sad if they got worse.

:lol: Is it sad that the Broncos have gotten worse?

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:52 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Classic. I sure hope the Rams show improvement. I'd hate to see them get any worse then 1-15. :lol: Spags took over a 2-14 team and made them 1-15, before having the #1 overall pick in the draft. So I'm sure glad the Rams are improving. It'd be pretty sad if they got worse.

:lol:


Yea, because 2-6 is awesome after being 8-8. :lol:

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:53 PM
Is it sad that the Broncos have gotten worse?

Not too some evidently. See how happy he is.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:54 PM
Nope, fans who aren't satisfied with the current state of their favorite team.

I'm not satisfied either but firing McD isn't going to fix anything. Its just going to be another coach coming here, bringing in his players, bringing in his system, and a few years to get it in place. Same ole story. Some fans just crack me up though. The Rams don't impress me much and neither does Spags. I'm still waiting for them to beat someone. Not to mention that got demolished by Detroit just like we got demolished by Oakland. But I guess that doesn't matter because they are better then thier 1 win team they had last year.

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:56 PM
I'm not satisfied either but firing McD isn't going to fix anything. Its just going to be another coach coming here, bringing in his players, bringing in his system, and a few years to get it in place. Same ole story. Some fans just crack me up though. The Rams don't impress me much and neither does Spags. I'm still waiting for them to beat someone. Not to mention that got demolished by Detroit just like we got demolished by Oakland. But I guess that doesn't matter because they are better then thier 1 win team they had last year.

Yea, cause firing Wade Phillips didnt do any good either...wait.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:56 PM
Yea, because 2-6 is awesome after being 8-8. :lol:

:lol: Did I say that? :lol: :lol:

Did I also say I was happy? :lol: :lol:

Classic. Comprehension skills is obviously what you need :salute:

Northman
11-06-2010, 05:57 PM
:lol: Did I say that? :lol: :lol:

Did I also say I was happy? :lol: :lol:

Classic. Comprehension skills is obviously what you need :salute:


I comprehend nuthuggers just fine. :salute:

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:58 PM
Yea, cause firing Wade Phillips didnt do any good either...wait.

Yea, cause bringing up 1 scenerio in 1994 is relevant to today ... oh wait....

Bosco
11-06-2010, 05:58 PM
Your example doesn't have merit in this case. In your scenario there is no physical way the two events can be related. The scenario which I believe happened is much more in the realm of possibility (and in fact is likely). I'm simply showing how you can't use timelines are conclusive proof. They should be used as supplemental proof and right now there is nothing for it to supplement. There is no real evidence of Josh's involvement in the situation.


I seem to remember a few years ago that the Broncos hired the guy who designed the NFL's salary cap. I'll have to do some research to find it, but that was under Shanahan's reign and I have never seen any evidence that Shanahan was directly responsible for negotiating contracts. He may have had final approval, but I doubt he got buried in that amount of minutea. In Fatsis' book, one of his interviews with Sundquist paints a pretty clear picture of Shanahan's involvement with the contract process. I believe it's even talked about in the epilogue of the new edition. You can also find points alluding to that in any of a several articles done on the matter over the year.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 05:59 PM
I comprehend nuthuggers just fine. :salute:

Again, you fail to comprehend... What am I nuthugging exactly? :lol: :lol: You killin me. Classic.

Northman
11-06-2010, 06:00 PM
Again, you fail to comprehend... What am I nuthugging exactly? :lol: :lol: You killin me. Classic.

I know, im killing you man. Just crushing your weak shit left and right. :lol:

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:03 PM
I know, im killing you man. Just crushing your weak shit left and right. :lol:

:lol: :lol: Not really. You just bringing up 1994 as if that has anything to do with today. I just love how fans will be all over someone when they win then bash them when they lose. Wishy washy fans. :lol:

A coach has a bad season early on and its time to fire him because his replacement is obviously going to be great. But I mean, since it took Spags a 1-15 season to get to 4-4 in his 2nd season then maybe McDaniels should go 2-14 this season so we can get a high pick and hopefully show some improvement next year. :elefant:

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm not satisfied either but firing McD isn't going to fix anything. Its just going to be another coach coming here, bringing in his players, bringing in his system, and a few years to get it in place. Same ole story. Some fans just crack me up though. The Rams don't impress me much and neither does Spags. I'm still waiting for them to beat someone. Not to mention that got demolished by Detroit just like we got demolished by Oakland. But I guess that doesn't matter because they are better then thier 1 win team they had last year.

We have seen three teams with greater improvement than the Broncos during the same time period - the Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams. True enough, they had a lot less talent than Denver (at least they did when McD took over), but they have still shown more improvement during that time than the Broncos. That goes to show you that if you have a front office with a clue, improvement can be made fairly quickly. That's why I don't buy the "it's going to take a few years to get it in place" argument. Even if that were true, it would feel better to see a plan and some improvement along the way. We're not currently seeing that improvement - we're seeing regression.

As for you not being impressed by the Rams I don't understand. Last year, the first year under Spags' program they couldn't beat even the weakest teams. Now they are a team that can't be taken lightly by anybody. That is progress.

Northman
11-06-2010, 06:04 PM
:lol: :lol: Not really. You just bringing up 1994 as if that has anything to do with today. I just love how fans will be all over someone when they win then bash them when they lose. Wishy washy fans. :lol:

A coach has a bad season early on and its time to fire him because his replacement is obviously going to be great. But I mean, since it took Spags a 1-15 season to get to 4-4 in his 2nd season then maybe McDaniels should go 2-14 this season so we can get a high pick and hopefully show some improvement next year. :elefant:

Oh man, so CLOSE. You almost had some validity to your posting but you came up empty as usual. Try again. :lol:

Bosco
11-06-2010, 06:04 PM
Only if you have a third grade understanding of football. Since you were comparing, and because they were particularly bad comparisons, let me give you a good one. If Spags had traded off Steve Jackson and, well they didn't really have anyone else on the team, but imagine if Chris Long and Laurinaitis had been there...but he traded them off. Now that's a fine comparison. The problem is you're looking at it from a fan's perspective. The perspective from inside the locker room is considerably different.


And Josh's first move was to throw out the team favorite, good locker guy Special Teams Captain and bring in his own guy. It wasn't his first move, but it was a very similar move to the ones Spags made and yet we still have fans complaining about letting Leach go.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:05 PM
I just love how fans will be all over someone when they win then bash them when they lose. Wishy washy fans. :lol:


Yeah, man that is REALLY weird. :rolleyes:

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:06 PM
I'm simply showing how you can't use timelines are conclusive proof. They should be used as supplemental proof and right now there is nothing for it to supplement. There is no real evidence of Josh's involvement in the situation.

In Fatsis' book, one of his interviews with Sundquist paints a pretty clear picture of Shanahan's involvement with the contract process. I believe it's even talked about in the epilogue of the new edition. You can also find points alluding to that in any of a several articles done on the matter over the year. I haven't read the book. Do you remember what it says about his role? Was Shanahan the one negotiating the contracts or did he have input?

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:12 PM
We have seen three teams with greater improvement than the Broncos during the same time period - the Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams. True enough, they had a lot less talent than Denver (at least they did when McD took over), but they have still shown more improvement during that time than the Broncos. That goes to show you that if you have a front office with a clue, improvement can be made fairly quickly. That's why I don't buy the "it's going to take a few years to get it in place" argument. Even if that were true, it would feel better to see a plan and some improvement along the way. We're not currently seeing that improvement - we're seeing regression.

As for you not being impressed by the Rams I don't understand. Last year, the first year under Spags' program they couldn't beat even the weakest teams. Now they are a team that can't be taken lightly by anybody. That is progress.

The Rams beat the Lions last year. So they could beat the weakest teams. This year they lost to them 44-6. oh oh, are they getting worse? :O

Rams beat a terrible Panthers team, a Chargers team that was playing horrible, an average at best Seattle and Washington team. Not like they are beating anyone that good. But its better then not beating anyone like us.

Then the Bucs beat the Panthers, Rams, Cards, Browns, and Bengals. :lol: That doesn't impress me. In both thier losses they got blown out. McD gets blown out and he needs to go. But I guess these guys are allowed to get blown out? Both the Rams and the Bucs have been blown out this year in games.

Then we got Detroit who goes from 0-16 to 2-14. Thank God they showed improvement. Then they are 2-6 this year. But they are playing competitive. If McD's team plays competitive and loses then its time for him to go.

So McD loses competitivly or gets blown out, then its time for him to go either way. And when he wins hes just McLucky. So its a lose-lose for him. Some fans want him to lose just so he can get fired. ... Personally, I hope he wins since I root for the Broncos. Might sound crazy, I know.

Funny how coaches of bad teams get a pass when they do bad. I feel that McDaniels is a better coach then Raheem, Spags, and Schwartz. But in the NFL winning is what matters so hopefully we can get some W's in the 2nd half. I know some people won't like to win some games though :(

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:13 PM
Oh man, so CLOSE. You almost had some validity to your posting but you came up empty as usual. Try again. :lol:

:lol: Darn, it wasn't what you wanted to hear. So Sad :lol: :lol:

Northman
11-06-2010, 06:15 PM
:lol: Darn, it wasn't what you wanted to hear. So Sad :lol: :lol:

Still nothing? Awe man, you so disappoint. Try again. Come on, you could do better. :lol:

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:19 PM
Still nothing? Awe man, you so disappoint. Try again. Come on, you could do better. :lol:

Well, I did respond to spiker. But :lol: Still depressed I see. Not what you wanted to hear. So sad :(

Bosco
11-06-2010, 06:21 PM
I haven't read the book. Do you remember what it says about his role? Was Shanahan the one negotiating the contracts or did he have input?

I wish I could give you an exact quote but I don't have the book. I got it from the local library and that was sometime ago now.

And no, I don't believe Shanahan ever had exclusive power over contracts, but he was active in the negotiation process and had veto/approval power over the final product.

Northman
11-06-2010, 06:21 PM
Well, I did respond to spiker. But :lol: Still depressed I see. Not what you wanted to hear. So sad :(


Im not sad, im happy. Love owning trolls on this board. Makes my day. :laugh:

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:23 PM
Im not sad, im happy. Love owning trolls on this board. Makes my day. :laugh:

:lol: Hilarious.

Not sure how I'm a troll considering I've been here longer then you :lol:

Plus, don't trolls usually get banned? Something else I havn't done on this site. Try again? :lol:

Northman
11-06-2010, 06:24 PM
:lol: Hilarious.

Not sure how I'm a troll considering I've been here longer then you :lol:

Plus, don't trolls usually get banned? Something else I havn't done on this site. Try again? :lol:

You just dont get noticed. For good reason. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Lancane
11-06-2010, 06:26 PM
:lol: Did I say that? :lol: :lol:

Did I also say I was happy? :lol: :lol:

Classic. Comprehension skills is obviously what you need :salute:

Comprehension is a two way street, so is objectivity. No one is happy about the record, the issue isn't 'Are we a bunch of giddy, idiot fans for being 2-6'! Point is are we improving or showing any signs of improvement compared to other teams with coaches that have been with their respective teams for the same amount of time or less?

McDaniels came in like a blazing idiot, as if he needed the 'Handbook to Football' idiots special edition guide book. He lied, flat out lied to the fans and people argued in his favor, even when the fact came out that he did...splitting the fanbase from the start, and did we improve? Did we play sound, smart, tough football? No, he weakened the offense and our defense improved, only to show it was fluke after six games. Though statistically our defense was much better, Nolan left and pretty much more and more of the fans began to realize that he was the new cancer of the team, by again having another circus off-season. He literally obliterated the two strong points of our offense, our receiver corps. and our offensive line. Lloyd stepped up, but he is not even close to being the playmaker Marshall was, quite literally he was the focal point of our offense followed by our line and neither are as good now. The defense under Wink with more talent is awful, yeah..yeah, injuries...or excuses. Fact is that this team since that 6-0 start have regressed in almost all fronts.

Yeah, fire him now and the team may have to rebuild...but if he can not turn it around? Then in a year or two we'll be rebuilding anyways, so instead of the two or three years to get back we're looking at five or six?

For many of us, we see no reason to be optimistic like a few on here, if you actually look at the situation from the outside in, carefully defining each problem; questionable drafts and acquisitions of pro talent, even questionable trades, circus-esque off-seasons, bad game planning and so on, then McDaniels is the root of the problem; if your the CEO of a multi-million dollar corporation and lose a million in a move to help the company, a large number will overlook that one mistake...but start making it a continual occurrence and Board of Trustees will eventually replace your ass? So how many 'million dollar' mistakes should it take for common sense to kick in that, that one CEO is dangerous to the company?

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:26 PM
You just dont get noticed. For good reason. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I must get noticed since you've been replying to me nonstop :lol: :lol:

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:27 PM
The Rams beat the Lions last year. So they could beat the weakest teams. This year they lost to them 44-6. oh oh, are they getting worse? :O The Lions are much better this year. In fact if they played head to head I don't doubt for a second that they would pound the Broncos.



Rams beat a terrible Panthers team, a Chargers team that was playing horrible, an average at best Seattle and Washington team. Not like they are beating anyone that good. But its better then not beating anyone like us.

Then the Bucs beat the Panthers, Rams, Cards, Browns, and Bengals. :lol: That doesn't impress me. In both thier losses they got blown out. McD gets blown out and he needs to go. But I guess these guys are allowed to get blown out? Both the Rams and the Bucs have been blown out this year in games. I'll be curious to see if the Broncos can beat the Chargers. They couldn't beat the Jets who played a terrible game. Careful about talking bad about Seattle, that's one of Denver's two wins.

Do you think Denver would beat TB head to head? Which of the teams they beat do you think Denver would be favored against? I'm thinking maybe the Panthers. Again, the problem is not just that McDaniels is getting blown out (though getting blown out at home to a hated rival is bad enough), but also that the team is regressing.


Then we got Detroit who goes from 0-16 to 2-14. Thank God they showed improvement. Then they are 2-6 this year. But they are playing competitive. If McD's team plays competitive and loses then its time for him to go. Detroit has also been playing without its starting QB. Not saying that injuries are an excuse, but that's a tough one to overcome. Even so they have been competitive in most of their games. Again, the difference is that they are showing improvement week to week - is Denver?


So McD loses competitivly or gets blown out, then its time for him to go either way. And when he wins hes just McLucky. So its a lose-lose for him. Some fans want him to lose just so he can get fired. ... Personally, I hope he wins since I root for the Broncos. Might sound crazy, I know.

Funny how coaches of bad teams get a pass when they do bad. I feel that McDaniels is a better coach then Raheem, Spags, and Schwartz. But in the NFL winning is what matters so hopefully we can get some W's in the 2nd half. I know some people won't like to win some games though :(

I don't think any objective person can look at McDaniels' product and say that it's a better team or it's better coached than the team he inherited. THAT is the rub. As for McDaniels being a better coach - NOTHING he has done reflects that. In fact, when it mattered Spags stymied McDaniels' vaunted offense in a head to head matchup in the biggest game of the year.

Northman
11-06-2010, 06:27 PM
I must get noticed since you've been replying to me nonstop :lol: :lol:

Yea, but thats because i like you.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:33 PM
Comprehension is a two way street, so is objectivity. No one is happy about the record, the issue isn't 'Are we a bunch of giddy, idiot fans for being 2-6'! Point is are we improving or showing any signs of improvement compared to other teams with coaches that have been with their respective teams for the same amount of time or less?

McDaniels came in like a blazing idiot, as if he needed the 'Handbook to Football' idiots special edition guide book. He lied, flat out lied to the fans and people argued in his favor, even when the fact came out that he did...splitting the fanbase from the start, and did we improve? Did we play sound, smart, tough football? No, he weakened the offense and our defense improved, only to show it was fluke after six games. Though statistically our defense was much better, Nolan left and pretty much more and more of the fans began to realize that he was the new cancer of the team, by again having another circus off-season. He literally obliterated the two strong points of our offense, our receiver corps. and our offensive line. Lloyd stepped up, but he is not even close to being the playmaker Marshall was, quite literally he was the focal point of our offense followed by our line and neither are as good now. The defense under Wink with more talent is awful, yeah..yeah, injuries...or excuses. Fact is that this team since that 6-0 start have regressed in almost all fronts.

Yeah, fire him now and the team may have to rebuild...but if he can not turn it around? Then in a year or two we'll be rebuilding anyways, so instead of the two or three years to get back we're looking at five or six?

For many of us, we see no reason to be optimistic like a few on here, if you actually look at the situation from the outside in, carefully defining each problem; questionable drafts and acquisitions of pro talent, even questionable trades, circus-esque off-seasons, bad game planning and so on, then McDaniels is the root of the problem; if your the CEO of a multi-million dollar corporation and lose a million in a move to help the company, a large number will overlook that one mistake...but start making it a continual occurrence and Board of Trustees will eventually replace your ass? So how many 'million dollar' mistakes should it take for common sense to kick in that, that one CEO is dangerous to the company?

I'd rather get rid of Wink then anyone. But then again, I'd like to have the same defensive coordinator for more then just a year. As for lying. A lot of coaches lie in March and April. Especially the good ones. I'm not really mad about trading Cutler or even Marshall. I don't think either of them is the reason we are 2-6 right now because we miss them. Statistacally speaking Orton is having a better year then Cutler ever had year and Lloyd is having a better year then Bmarsh ever had here. So were not missing the numbers by those 2. And with Cutler and Marshall, all we were able to achieve was .500. So its not like we were a playoff team with them.

But yea, since our 6-0 start we've obviously been horrible in only winning 4 games. I just don't think firing McD is the answer. I don't want to be the next team that goes thru coach after coach after coach. And in 10 years we've been thru 6 coaches. I don't want that. I want to stick by McD and hope hes the guy and at least let him finish out his contract and see where we are then.

Last year we went 6-0 and had our bye and then went all downhill from there. I'm hoping this year after our 4 game losing streak, we get started after the bye and get hot. We'll see how we respond after the bye. But its just silly to want a guy fired after a year and a half.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:40 PM
I wish I could give you an exact quote but I don't have the book. I got it from the local library and that was sometime ago now.

And no, I don't believe Shanahan ever had exclusive power over contracts, but he was active in the negotiation process and had veto/approval power over the final product.

Shanahan having that power would not surprise me. Just like it wouldn't surprise me if McDaniels had similar power. I would like to see a real personnel guy brought in. I might even be more patient with McDaniels as HC if that would happen.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:42 PM
The Lions are much better this year. In fact if they played head to head I don't doubt for a second that they would pound the Broncos.

I'll be curious to see if the Broncos can beat the Chargers. They couldn't beat the Jets who played a terrible game. Careful about talking bad about Seattle, that's one of Denver's two wins.

Do you think Denver would beat TB head to head? Which of the teams they beat do you think Denver would be favored against? I'm thinking maybe the Panthers. Again, the problem is not just that McDaniels is getting blown out (though getting blown out at home to a hated rival is bad enough), but also that the team is regressing.

Detroit has also been playing without its starting QB. Not saying that injuries are an excuse, but that's a tough one to overcome. Even so they have been competitive in most of their games. Again, the difference is that they are showing improvement week to week - is Denver?



I don't think any objective person can look at McDaniels' product and say that it's a better team or it's better coached than the team he inherited. THAT is the rub. As for McDaniels being a better coach - NOTHING he has done reflects that. In fact, when it mattered Spags stymied McDaniels' vaunted offense in a head to head matchup in the biggest game of the year.

Well last time we played the Lions we got destroyed and that was by Shanahans team and they were a horrible Lions team. Thier record at the time was okay but they went on to lose just about every game after that for about 2 years :lol:

And right now, I don't have confidence that we can beat anyone. Doesn't mean I want McD fired. When you lose 4 straight and lose to 2 of the worst teams in the league and get killed at home by Oakland, I cant be feeling too confident.

Up until the last 2 weeks. I felt that we could beat anyone. I felt that we were back to back facemask penalties from beating the Jags. I felt that we were a 4th and 2 away from tying Indy and maybe going on to win. I felt that we were a late pass interference away from beating the Jets. I felt that against the Ravens, the penalties early on, on Eddie Royal's big play could have maybe changed how the game went. But probably not since we always lose to the Ravens. I felt that we were a team that were a few mistakes away from being good.

Then after Oakland and San Fran, I just feel like our hopes were killed by that crushing Jets loss. And all hope was gone.

All I can hope for is that the bye week regrouped us. 3 out of our next 4 are vs AFC West teams and then the Rams at home. You can still be better then someone and have a worse coach then other teams. Just like you can be worse then someone and have a better coach. I still feel that McDaniels is a better coach then those other 3 guys and still feel that we'll finish with a better record then all those teams.

Funny how people get blasted so much by thier opinions.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:45 PM
Also, I miss the days when we were good at home and teams actually feared us. Hell, even in 2005 when we went 8-0 in the reg season.

Now were a joke at home and havn't won a home divisional game since we played KC in 2008. :fight:

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:48 PM
Funny how people get blasted so much by thier opinions. Hopefully you don't feel like I've "blasted" you for your opinions - that was not my intent. It's a good debate and you're certainly entitled to feel the way you want to.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:50 PM
Hopefully you don't feel like I've "blasted" you for your opinions - that was not my intent. It's a good debate and you're certainly entitled to feel the way you want to.

Naw, not you. Northman :lol: Doesn't bother me though but calling someone an idiot or irrelevent just because they feel different about things and want to keep Coach is silly imo.

You've been fine :salute: I don't mind discussions but really wouldn't bash someone or call people names because they disagree with me.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 06:53 PM
Naw, not you. Northman :lol: Doesn't bother me though but calling someone an idiot or irrelevent just because they feel different about things and want to keep Coach is silly imo.

You've been fine :salute: I don't mind discussions but really wouldn't bash someone or call people names because they disagree with me.

Enough people disagree with me or think I'm an idiot that I'm used to it by now. It's no big deal. It's (supposed to be) all about fun.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 06:55 PM
Enough people disagree with me or think I'm an idiot that I'm used to it by now. It's no big deal. It's (supposed to be) all about fun.

:lol: yea, I'm use to it too. On here and other sites. Pretty much used to it :elefant: Its all good though. Its nice that everyone has different opinions. It makes it all fun.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 07:10 PM
Spags sucks but somehow he is getting production out of the D line and Chris Long something none of the previous coaches have done. Spags sucks but we have seen the resurgence of Steven Jackson a guy who hasn't been relevant in 2 or 3 seasons now. Spags sucks but they are winning! The St. Louis Rams don't have to apologize for their schedule either. I remember a Denver team finishing out with more than a few sub .500 teams late last year and still going 2-8.

EDIT: The idea that Spags is simply the beneficiary of Bradford is a bit off par IMHO as well. We saw a coach get a veteran QB who didn't have an uphill learning battle coming to the team that also knew how to read D's etc...Yet at the end of the season all we heard was new Qb, New coach, new system etc...

If Spags truly sucks, then I will take some of that suckage any day!

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 07:16 PM
Spags sucks but somehow he is getting production out of the D line and Chris Long something none of the previous coaches have done. Spags sucks but we have seen the resurgence of Steven Jackson a guy who hasn't been relevant in 2 or 3 seasons now. Spags sucks but they are winning! The St. Louis Rams don't have to apologize for their schedule either. I remember a Denver team finishing out with more than a few sub .500 teams late last year and still going 2-8.

EDIT: The idea that Spags is simply the beneficiary of Bradford is a bit off par IMHO as well. We saw a coach get a veteran QB who didn't have an uphill learning battle coming to the team that also knew how to read D's etc...Yet at the end of the season all we heard was new Qb, New coach, new system etc...

If Spags truly sucks, then I will take some of that suckage any day!

Well, going by that. Then McDaniels is getting career years out of Orton and Lloyd. Also getting a quality year out of Gaffney. Also Prater has had 2 good years under McDaniels something that he didn't do under Shanny.

omggggggg


oh wait, does it not work that way? :confused:

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 07:23 PM
Well, going by that. Then McDaniels is getting career years out of Orton and Lloyd. Also getting a quality year out of Gaffney. Also Prater has had 2 good years under McDaniels something that he didn't do under Shanny.

omggggggg


oh wait, does it not work that way? :confused:

I thought yards and individual statistics didn't mean anything unless the wins were there. :noidea: PS-Orton hasn't looked that good in the last few games. Let's see what the season ends with before proclaiming his numbers to be record.

Thats the difference, BJ! The Rams are winning. This time last year the consensus was the Rams and Bucs were MUCH worse off than us yet somehow this year they are leaps and bounds better!

Funny, that reminds me someone FLAMED ME for insisting Josh Freeman was going to be a good QB.

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 07:34 PM
I thought yards and individual statistics didn't mean anything unless the wins were there. :noidea: PS-Orton hasn't looked that good in the last few games. Let's see what the season ends with before proclaiming his numbers to be record.

Thats the difference, BJ! The Rams are winning. This time last year the consensus was the Rams and Bucs were MUCH worse off than us yet somehow this year they are leaps and bounds better!

Funny, that reminds me someone FLAMED ME for insisting Josh Freeman was going to be a good QB.

The Rams are 2 games better then us in the loss column and the Bucs are 4 games better. Thats not really leaps and bounds. Congrats to them for showing progress. :salute:

But I agree, I'm not a fan of stats when you arn't getting the wins.

Also all 3 of those teams that people are talking about in here, are all starting either 1st or 2nd year QB's all drafted in the 1st round. When you are a horrible team you have to basically start your 1st round QB.

McDaniels hasn't done that yet. We'll see if he does it this year or not. I still think drafting Tebow will buy him some extra time.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
11-06-2010, 07:35 PM
I really wanted him too but if I remember he didn't want to come here right?

TimTebow15MVP
11-06-2010, 07:48 PM
i dont know the rams had the worse record in the league last year under spags. he had only 2 more wins than mcdaniels this year. whats your bitching about again? spags is entitled to have the worst record in the league that lands them a player that puts the franchise back on the map but mcdaniels cant? blah. im not huge on mcdaniels as i once was but this is rediculous

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 07:51 PM
It was quite baffling. Going in i thought for sure we were going to get a defensive minded coach considering the offense already had players in place and just needed fine tuning. I had felt better when we hired Nolan but that was obviously short lived.

Fine tuning AYE.

Mikey couldn't do it so you expected spags or someone like him.

Mikey couldnt fine tune the redzone problem since TD, John Etal. And Y'all expected. Spags to.

LMAO. :laugh:
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Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 07:54 PM
i dont know the rams had the worse record in the league last year under spags. he had only 2 more wins than mcdaniels this year. whats your bitching about again? spags is entitled to have the worst record in the league that lands them a player that puts the franchise back on the map but mcdaniels cant? blah. im not huge on mcdaniels as i once was but this is rediculous

HUGE difference :lol:

Spags took over a team that went 2 wins the season before. The Jets coach inherited a team taht went 9-7, and went 9-7. Our coach inherited an 8-8 team...... why would we think that being around 2 wins is something to be "ok" with???? :confused:

Its ridiculous to give him a bye as if he inherited a BAD team. He's MADE it bad. HUGE difference.

TimTebow15MVP
11-06-2010, 07:55 PM
Is this character seriously placing steven jackson who has been an elite talent for years and years production on spags? lol i guess steven jackson was nothing untill spags arrived? Thats hilarious

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 07:55 PM
The Lions would beat us, same with Tampa. Either way, i doubt they lose to the Raiders.

So it is the faider game that has Y'all insensed.

Why not last year or for that matter in 08.

We have had lots of ass kicking since the steelers did it at home in the playoffs in early 06. Why not then?
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Lonestar
11-06-2010, 08:00 PM
LMAO

He's 5-19 as an NFL head coach. Explain to me your logic for this again?

Not mention the top draft choices in STL for almost the last decade.

IIRC he had a soft schedule last year and this year playing last place teams from the year before.

Yep 5-19 is so much better than 10-14. I must have missed that day in school.

Maybe its obamaonics and I just do not get it. :laugh:
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TimTebow15MVP
11-06-2010, 08:01 PM
HUGE difference :lol:

Spags took over a team that went 2 wins the season before. The Jets coach inherited a team taht went 9-7, and went 9-7. Our coach inherited an 8-8 team...... why would we think that being around 2 wins is something to be "ok" with???? :confused:

Its ridiculous to give him a bye as if he inherited a BAD team. He's MADE it bad. HUGE difference.

inherited a 8-8 team that coulda very well been 4-12 the next year under shanny. the broncos were indeed a bad team with ZERO on defense other than dooms and champ. mcdaniels took dooms and made him the leagues sack leader. the offense is still the same. it only lacks tebow.

if th ebroncos had sucked last year instead of this year they woulda landed a suh type of player that woulda changed the franchise or what not as the rams did with bradford, as the lions did with suh, this is simply our year to suck and it was bound to happen whether spags was here or not.

No dooms no ayers, no DL help. were one draft away no matter the coach.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Also all 3 of those teams that people are talking about in here, are all starting either 1st or 2nd year QB's all drafted in the 1st round.

That makes it even more astonishing. We saw the likes of Vick, Carr, Smith, Akili Smith, and tons of other teams fail by playing their QBs. That makes Spags look that much better IMHO.

Again, the cap hit of having a #1 overall QB hinders a team.

Besides Josh had a #1 QB here who had already gone through all the growing pains and getting used to NFL speed and reading D's. He also has one he is stashing on the sideline. He doesn't get a pass for that. Spags get credit and rightfully so and McD is shouldering the blame and rightfully so.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 08:20 PM
i dont know the rams had the worse record in the league last year under spags. he had only 2 more wins than mcdaniels this year. whats your bitching about again? spags is entitled to have the worst record in the league that lands them a player that puts the franchise back on the map but mcdaniels cant? blah. im not huge on mcdaniels as i once was but this is rediculous

Again--everybody cited HOW MUCH WORSE the RAMS WERE than the broncos last year. Everybody knew the Rams were rebuilding. The Broncos have insisted, and mcd himself upon taking the job, has said there was no need to rebuild.

Can't have it both ways.

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 08:20 PM
Are you implying that when Spags took over St. Louis was a .500 team? I think the circumstances for in which McD took over was much more positive than what Spags had to deal with coming in. Had Spags too over a .500 team you might have a point but that wasnt the case.

Are you really implying that Josh really got a 500 team.

While records said so we all know that the defense was a total joke outside Champ, DJ and Doom as a project olb.

As for O really was it that great. Not in scoring. Lots of stats. Now how many times this past few weeks have we heard that lots of yards but no scoring.

Goose gander. Samey samey. IMO
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jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 08:23 PM
Spags sucks but we have seen the resurgence of Steven Jackson a guy who hasn't been relevant in 2 or 3 seasons now.


Is this character seriously placing steven jackson who has been an elite talent for years and years production on spags? lol i guess steven jackson was nothing untill spags arrived? Thats hilarious

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Tell me, precisely, how that is off base. Coming from a Denver Tebows fan, I am not surprised.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 08:24 PM
Are you really implying that Josh really got a 500 team.

That's exactly what he got! :laugh:

If 24-24 in three seasons doesn't say .500 than what does? :noidea:

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 08:24 PM
He's beating teams he should, he has that going for him unlike us. I would take that right about now. But, his uphill battle is much harder than ours so we shall see how he does in the next couple of years.

Let's see if I have this correct willing to give him time but not Josh. Yep that makes sense.

Goose or gander.
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jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 08:26 PM
Let's see if I have this correct willing to give him time but not Josh. Yep that makes sense.

Goose or gander.
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When you beat the chargers at home and show progress in your SECOND season, of course a coach should be given time.

On the other hand when you are 4-14, 0-4 in the division, and getting the snot kicked out of you in your own backyard and everything points to REGRESSION....

Bosco
11-06-2010, 08:43 PM
Shanahan having that power would not surprise me. Just like it wouldn't surprise me if McDaniels had similar power. I would like to see a real personnel guy brought in. I might even be more patient with McDaniels as HC if that would happen.

I don't think McDaniels is involved in the contract negotiations. If I remember correctly, during the Cutler fiasco he was asked why he brought Xanders with him to the meeting with Cutler and he replied that since Cutler brought Bus Cook he had a feeling there was be discussions about an extension and that would be something for Xanders to handle or something to that effect.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 08:44 PM
Are you really implying that Josh really got a 500 team.

While records said so we all know that the defense was a total joke outside Champ, DJ and Doom as a project olb.
"You are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells



As for O really was it that great. Not in scoring. Lots of stats. Now how many times this past few weeks have we heard that lots of yards but no scoring.

Goose gander. Samey samey. IMO
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You act like Shanahan's stats were so horrendous yet you defend McDaniels who not only has failed to improve upon them, but actually made them worse. Your arguments baffle me Jr. Maybe it's cause I'm not that bright. It's probably just me.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Xanders is a cap and contract guy.

spikerman
11-06-2010, 08:46 PM
I don't think McDaniels is involved in the contract negotiations. If I remember correctly, during the Cutler fiasco he was asked why he brought Xanders with him to the meeting with Cutler and he replied that since Cutler brought Bus Cook he had a feeling there was be discussions about an extension and that would be something for Xanders to handle or something to that effect.

That's what I mean. I would assume both Shanahan and McDaniels had/have the power to approve or veto, but don't get involved in the actual negotiations.

Northman
11-06-2010, 08:56 PM
Fine tuning AYE.

Mikey couldn't do it so you expected spags or someone like him.

Mikey couldnt fine tune the redzone problem since TD, John Etal. And Y'all expected. Spags to.

LMAO. :laugh:
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Oh looky! Another lets bring Shanahan into a discussion that has nothing to do with him! Woohoo! Its a drive by hijacking fruiting! Way to go slick.

Northman
11-06-2010, 08:58 PM
So it is the faider game that has Y'all insensed.

Why not last year or for that matter in 08.

We have had lots of ass kicking since the steelers did it at home in the playoffs in early 06. Why not then?
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Because we were promised HOPE and CHANGE. Sounds like someone else i know. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Northman
11-06-2010, 09:00 PM
Are you really implying that Josh really got a 500 team.



Yes, thats what im implying because that is what the record shows. Just like 2-6 means exactly what it means. Spin away. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

TimTebow15MVP
11-06-2010, 09:00 PM
Again--everybody cited HOW MUCH WORSE the RAMS WERE than the broncos last year. Everybody knew the Rams were rebuilding. The Broncos have insisted, and mcd himself upon taking the job, has said there was no need to rebuild.

Can't have it both ways.

that was mcdaniels only issue. im sure he thought he was top shit and could win right away but no that just wasnt gonna happen, too much turnover. the broncos are indeed rebuilding. tsorry your expectations were so high after the 6-0 start.

Northman
11-06-2010, 09:02 PM
that was mcdaniels only issue. im sure he thought he was top shit and could win right away but no that just wasnt gonna happen, too much turnover. the broncos are indeed rebuilding. tsorry your expectations were so high after the 6-0 start.

Too bad Bowlen said we werent "rebuilding".

Ravage!!!
11-06-2010, 09:03 PM
Are you really implying that Josh really got a 500 team.

While records said so we all know that the defense was a total joke outside Champ, DJ and Doom as a project olb.

As for O really was it that great. Not in scoring. Lots of stats. Now how many times this past few weeks have we heard that lots of yards but no scoring.

Goose gander. Samey samey. IMO
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Sooo.. if you are saying that we didn't have a .500 caliber team, yet.... had a .500 record.... then you MUST be saying that the coach that WAS here was able to coach them ABOVE the personnel level. So now, that we have supposedly "upgraded" to bigger, faster, smarter players...... we are 4-14 (.222 since the last bye). Is that coaching too?

Northman
11-06-2010, 09:04 PM
Sooo.. if you are saying that we didn't have a .500 caliber team, yet.... had a .500 record.... then you MUST be saying that the coach that WAS here was able to coach them ABOVE the personnel level. So now, that we have supposedly "upgraded" to bigger, faster, smarter players...... we are 4-14 (.222 since the last bye). Is that coaching too?

Complete OWNAGE.

dogfish
11-06-2010, 09:16 PM
Are you really implying that Josh really got a 500 team.



only in a world where the sky is blue and water is wet. . .


http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=div&season=2008-REG&split=Overall

BroncoBJ
11-06-2010, 09:17 PM
That makes it even more astonishing. We saw the likes of Vick, Carr, Smith, Akili Smith, and tons of other teams fail by playing their QBs. That makes Spags look that much better IMHO.

Again, the cap hit of having a #1 overall QB hinders a team.

Besides Josh had a #1 QB here who had already gone through all the growing pains and getting used to NFL speed and reading D's. He also has one he is stashing on the sideline. He doesn't get a pass for that. Spags get credit and rightfully so and McD is shouldering the blame and rightfully so.

I just don't understand how you take a 2 win team and the very next year you get a new head coach and turn them in to a 1 win team. I can guarantee you that if Shannys last year here happened to be 2-14 and then we hired a new coach and went 1-15 the next year, EVERYONE would want that coach fired. They wouldn't say its because were a bad team and give him time. They would want him fired.

So not sure why they get a free pass now because they put together a few wins this year.

And in that season they had the worst offense in the league and the 2nd worst defense. Pretty damn horrible. But they didn't fire him. You cant just fire every coach after a bad season. Were just spoiled and not use to real horrible seasons.

I'm all for giving Josh 1 more year whether we go 2-14 or 10-6 or somewhere in between this year. Give him 1 more year and see if he can do anything.

As for the draft picks, its all hit or miss. Not to mention I really believe the media dictates who goes #1 most of the time. They all hype Bradford and talk about him like crazy so then he goes #1.

I just think its funny how people wait til now to talk about who they want as thier headcoach. Kind of like after the draft, people can be happy with who they got. Then 5 years later some player out performs everyone and is a great player and people complained that we passed him up. I really don't want to be 1 of those teams that has to go thru coach after coach year after year. We do that enough with our defensive coordinators.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 09:38 PM
that was mcdaniels only issue. im sure he thought he was top shit and could win right away but no that just wasnt gonna happen, too much turnover. the broncos are indeed rebuilding. tsorry your expectations were so high after the 6-0 start.

Nobody, i repeat Nobody, has said they are or intended to rebuild. Why is that? :confused: Other team's have had no qualms being honest with their fanbase about rebuilding.

Now he should get a pass for turnover? That turnover was his doing! I don't blame him for doing it but he did it! He should be applauded or criticised for whatever the result of that turnover is. In this case, its criticism!

My expectations were high after the 6-0 start? YOU DON'T KNOW ME! I criticised this team at 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. :lol: Cute try though! The fact is if this team went anything better than 4-14 say 7-11 I would be a lot less vocal. If this team wasn't showing signs of regressing as bad as it is, I wouldn't be so vocal!

I'm curious, seeing how you seem to be a Tebow fan first, how long have you been a Broncos fan? :confused:

At the end of the day McDaniels isn't the type to blow smoke up people's ass. He made the quote about the appeal of this job was not having to rebuild. He made the quote how he was going to VASTLY improve upon the 08 O's rankings and efficiency. The idea we are rebuilding is an excuse for the apologists that lacks merit let alone support.

Canmore
11-06-2010, 09:39 PM
...On the other hand when you are 4-14, 0-4 in the division, and getting the snot kicked out of you in your own backyard and everything points to REGRESSION....

It is time to look long and hard at who is running the show and how they are running it.

jhildebrand
11-06-2010, 09:46 PM
I just don't understand how you take a 2 win team and the very next year you get a new head coach and turn them in to a 1 win team. I can guarantee you that if Shannys last year here happened to be 2-14 and then we hired a new coach and went 1-15 the next year, EVERYONE would want that coach fired. They wouldn't say its because were a bad team and give him time. They would want him fired.

The problem is this team McD inherited was nowhere near as bad off as the Rams were! Everybody acknowledged as much last season.

Now we are trying to revise history. It just doesn't work.

Furthermore, I am on record in plenty of places saying I would be more forgiving if this team were truly rebuilding i.e. collecting draft picks, using draft picks, and playing our youth.

The fact is you cannot say this team is rebuilding when it is giving away picks like a 4th of July parade: 4 picks used for Tebow, 3 picks used on Quinn, 2 picks on Smith, 1 pick on Maroney. That is 10 picks. That is enough to field an almost entirely new O or D.

Let's also not forget that McD chose to correct the D mostly through FA. 9 of 11 staters being 30+ on D doesn't speak of rebuilding.

I could careless if this team went 3-13 if we were drafting and playing youth and building a real foundation!



So not sure why they get a free pass now because they put together a few wins this year.

He isn't getting a free pass. He inherited an entirely worse team than McD yet his results in year 2 are far better and improving weekly while McD is declining. Not so sure why that is hard to understand.

Jake Klug
11-06-2010, 09:50 PM
It is time to look long and hard at who is running the show and how they are running it.

That would be Joe Ellis.

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 10:52 PM
My god dude you are slow. They are now mid level after being bottom level what part of that do you not understand as IMPROVEMENT? We went from mid level to bottom level. Again, not rocket science. If the Rams become bottom dwellars next year you would have a point but they are improving while we are regressing.

Omg it is half a season and they have not played anyone. Let's talk after the season is over and see if it was HIM or the Defense that won those games. Whether they have signicant injuries. Let compare talent levels.

To MOST fans W-L are not the end all.

Only to a few hard core it is.

Wjile we all aspire to being a playoff team "after all anything can happen in the Playoffs"- shanahan.

I'd rather be a legit TEAM than a consistent one and done team.

But then that is just me.
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Northman
11-06-2010, 10:57 PM
I'd rather be a legit TEAM than a consistent one and done team.

But then that is just me.
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Totally agree, but we arent a legit team and thats the problem.

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 11:00 PM
It is when you sucked that bad. But hey, its great when you can go from 8-8 to 2-6 woohoo!

Woohoo the season is over. Did not get the memo. Thanks

:laugh:
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Northman
11-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Woohoo the season is over. Did not get the memo. Thanks

:laugh:
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Hey, your welcome. I always like to help people out. :salute:

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 11:07 PM
Well, my only point is had Spags come here the progressions he would of made most likely would of been more on the defensive side of the ball. I doubt that there would of been the turmoil with Jay, etc. So considering the progression he made with St. Louis so far wouldnt you at least consider that he would of had us in the playoffs considering where we were as opposed to St. Louis? I would think so.

So it boils down to jay still being here is that your contention?
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Broncos Mtnman
11-06-2010, 11:07 PM
Sooo.. if you are saying that we didn't have a .500 caliber team, yet.... had a .500 record.... then you MUST be saying that the coach that WAS here was able to coach them ABOVE the personnel level. So now, that we have supposedly "upgraded" to bigger, faster, smarter players...... we are 4-14 (.222 since the last bye). Is that coaching too?

:dito:

Dreadnought
11-06-2010, 11:08 PM
Well, I wanted McDaniels as my first choice when Shanny got the axe. I was delighted we hired him instead of Spagnola.

Guess I was wrong, eh?

Northman
11-06-2010, 11:10 PM
So it boils down to jay still being here is that your contention?
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Nope.

Lonestar
11-06-2010, 11:10 PM
great in theory, but what could those coaches do with the current roster that isn't happening now? i don't think it makes sense to fire mcd this season because the next coach will want another house cleaning, meaning two more years of mediocrity or worse.

at least if mcd stays the system doesn't change. i'd still like to see how everything shakes out with a healthy dumerville and an offensive line with a little more experience.

Finally after 5 pages a coherent and RATIONAL post.
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Lonestar
11-06-2010, 11:14 PM
So your willing to endure possibly two more years of mediocrity, and possibly see us rebuild for a second time in a four to five year period? I'd rather just get the rebuilding over with and start seeing some real football...this team couldn't compete in the XFL if you remember that joke of a league.

Seems to me IIRC we was a last second hail mary penalty play away from beating ryans jets.

Can't compete in the XFL, AYE.
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TimTebow15MVP
11-07-2010, 01:13 AM
Too bad Bowlen said we werent "rebuilding".

too bad bowlen lied. or he believed mcdaniels. i think even mcdaniels getting off to a 6-0 start was bad. it boosted his already huge ego. thinking his system works fine the way it is when it really wasnt. this year should be a huge slap in the face. because even though were unfortunate w ith some bad injuries and unhealthy players we should be scoring more than 18-19 points per game. and thats mcdaniels fault.

Canmore
11-07-2010, 01:18 AM
...this year should be a huge slap in the face... and thats mcdaniels fault.

Something we can agree on.

TimTebow15MVP
11-07-2010, 01:25 AM
nah not all of it. but enough of it is his fault to be a slap in his face. i hope it has rocked his ego to the point he realizes he has to tweak his system that hes been coaching the last couple off seasons. time for a new gameplan buddy. nomore of the cute 4-5 wideout sets. need to get two tightends on the field again.

Poet
11-07-2010, 02:40 AM
He's done an excellent job progressing them to a mid level team at best. If we wanted a mid level coach, we should have just hung on to Shanahan.

They're a mid level team with little talent. When he got there they were neck and neck with the Browns and Oakland for being the worst team in the NFL.

Going from awful to average in a short amount of time is a pretty good accomplishment. Currently he's on the path to become a good team. If he doesn't do that, IN TIME, then you would be right.

But until he gets more time, you can't say that he hasn't done a great job.

Yes, in retrospect, Ryan was the best hire. But then if we're going to second guess everything, what happens if Ryan gets here and he isn't allowed to sign and trade for everybody that he likes. What if he isn't walking into a team with the best defensive player in the league? What if he doesn't get to coach a team with an offensive line that he had little to nothing to do with that was incredible?

Spags doesn't suck as a coach. That position can't be defended and has no merit to it. Sure, his success compared to Ryan's success sucks. Tony Dungy's success compared to Bill Belichek sucks. Ryan compared to BB completly sucks.

At THIS point in time as a head coach, you can't really bash on Spags too much at all. Especially when you consider that his front office is considered to be one of the worst front offices in all of football.

Shazam!
11-07-2010, 02:55 AM
Spags would have kept the entire offense entact with some small tweaks and reworked just the defense.

Maybe this wasnt such a bad idea...

However, it's easy to say this in hindsight.

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 03:04 AM
Wrong. Cromwell was the OC for Texas A&M in 2008 and 2009. Here's the press release from him getting hired with the Rams this year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/10/rams-hire-nolan-cromwell-as-receivers-coach/

Their production value at that stage in their careers is completely irrelevant. They were still career Rams who were critical parts of the Super Bowl teams and were immensely popular and well respected within the locker room, yet were dumped unceremoniously and without warning by a first time head coach. I don't think it was a bad move personally, but can you imagine how the fragile ones here in both the fanbase and locker room would have reacted had Josh started discarding players like Ben Hamilton and D.J Williams? As it stands, the only player of note who McDaniels cut bait on was Cutler. Everyone else was at least given a chance in 2009.

It amazes me that 95% of our fans still do not get that jay was the only "young talent" that did not play in 09. That was also at his behest because he whined his way out of DEN after dissing Pat.

All the others kiddies were given the chance to prove themselves and failed to cut the mustard in this scheme. All could have made a difference but decided at some point that conformity to the direction we were headed was not important enough to want to stay.

Each and everyone of them wanted more than DEN was willing to pay for their talents and gave up or decided not to try to get along.

Could any of them made a difference this year.

Hamilton failed at one on one blocking.

Marshall to big a head case and wanted the moon money wise. Just wanted out of DEN more than wanted to stay. How many days was he suspended for attitude during the year?

Ts flat did not make an effort to block at the LOS or if he did just was not good enough. You can bet that the coaches saw that attitude or lack of skill or he would still be here.

Hillis baffles me why he did not either get reps in either mikes (prior to being the last man standing) or Joshes regime.
I really liked the guy unlike about 90% of the fans here whom seemed to like him more after he was traded than before. FWIW most did not think it was a bad decision till he put up numbers in CLE. Then all of a sudden it was a terrible move. IMO only those members that just flat hated Quinn were mildly upset hillis was traded the rest did not bitch about it till preseason about the only one banging that drum was Tned and only because he was a razorback.

So folks let's be real, truthful about your motivations. Individually these moves made loads of sense unless your reps were tied to these players and their failure to show their love for the TEAM was more than you could handle. Therefore hating Josh was ok. For cutting your "star".
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Ravage!!!
11-07-2010, 04:18 AM
Poster Notification: None of what was just said in previous post, is actually correct.....

Ravage!!!
11-07-2010, 04:38 AM
inherited a 8-8 team that coulda very well been 4-12 the next year under shanny. the broncos were indeed a bad team with ZERO on defense other than dooms and champ. mcdaniels took dooms and made him the leagues sack leader. the offense is still the same. it only lacks tebow.

if th ebroncos had sucked last year instead of this year they woulda landed a suh type of player that woulda changed the franchise or what not as the rams did with bradford, as the lions did with suh, this is simply our year to suck and it was bound to happen whether spags was here or not.

No dooms no ayers, no DL help. were one draft away no matter the coach.

McD did NOT make Dooms ANYTHING. Dooms was already a sacking stud in a 4-3 system his rookie season. NOLAN is the one that made Doom the sacking leader.

This coach, removed two pro-bowl players, changed the offensive line, drafted a top RB, traded away a GOOD pass-catching TE and a RB that can ACTUALLY run the ball... and you want to say this is the SAME team, except this is "our" year to be bad and draft a top player??????? :confused: This is backwards thinking.

THis team is bad BECAUSE of his moves. If you think drafting in the top 5 is going to get a player that will turn this team around, and if you think this offense is "good" except for Tebow, then honestly...... you are just in a delusional place, and I wonder what color the skies are in your world. Actually, I know the answer to that question. THey are Orange and Green.

TimTebow15MVP
11-07-2010, 04:46 AM
i love how u say mcdaniels didnt make dooms because dooms was a sack master before mcdaniels got here. as if nolan was here a year before mcdaniels or something. how could nolan take credit and not mcdaniels? mcdaniels is the one who looked at the roster and said hey dooms will be a stud in the 3-4

TimTebow15MVP
11-07-2010, 04:47 AM
and what is orange and green?

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 05:00 AM
Just because two events coincide on a timeline does not mean they are connected. It would be like me blaming myself for the house across the street blowing up because I happened to turn on my furnace at that exact time.

And as it stands, I think it's pretty clear what changed, and that was Jim Goodman not wanting the GM job. Had he taken it, Bowlen's words about no changes would have likely come true.

Actually Bowlen has followed through on that. With the exception of some of Sundquist's time here, Shanahan was very hands on in matters related to the cap, contract negotiations and the day to day football operations. He more or less played owner with Bowlen's money, even going as far as to want a new practice facility built. Now those powers are split between Ellis (day to day operations) Xanders (cap and contracts) and McDaniels (everything actually on the football field) and they all independently report to Bowlen who has the ultimate final say.

This can't possibly be true as it is not believable to most here. They want to believe that Pat is a drunk or feeble minded. Or they flay hate Josh for whatever reason and there are many of them. :laugh:
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Jaws
11-07-2010, 05:34 AM
I don't think this is a totally fair comparison.
There's a different mentality for a coach who takes over a team who have been hopeless for a while. The expectations aren't so high, the pressure is less.
So hard to make an accurate comparison IMO.
Although saying that as it stands right now I am left wondering how it would have been with Spag.

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:11 AM
Is it sad that the Broncos have gotten worse?

After they lose 3 more games we can talk about getting worse till then we are no worse than the last 3 years of mikeys regime.

Call me then OK.
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Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:13 AM
I'm not satisfied either but firing McD isn't going to fix anything. Its just going to be another coach coming here, bringing in his players, bringing in his system, and a few years to get it in place. Same ole story. Some fans just crack me up though. The Rams don't impress me much and neither does Spags. I'm still waiting for them to beat someone. Not to mention that got demolished by Detroit just like we got demolished by Oakland. But I guess that doesn't matter because they are better then thier 1 win team they had last year.

Careful your being way to logical for this emo forum. :laugh:
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Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:39 AM
We have seen three teams with greater improvement than the Broncos during the same time period - the Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams. True enough, they had a lot less talent than Denver (at least they did when McD took over),.

Stopped reading at this point.

Just what talent did DEN have that your hung up with. Jay the strong arm weak minded QB or marshall who never met a woman that he did not have to rough up. TS the TE that couldn't block. Maybe it was leach that was great but due for a contract and replaced with a guy that cost us 250K more than leach would have BFD. Hillis is a maybe but absolutelty no one blinked an eye other than Tned when he was traded other than a few Quinn haters.

Sorry but I doubt that any of those teams were that much worse than we were. Mostly coaching. From OKC about to take off back with Y'all from ATL.
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Lonestar
11-07-2010, 10:03 AM
Well last time we played the Lions we got destroyed and that was by Shanahans team and they were a horrible Lions team. Thier record at the time was okay but they went on to lose just about every game after that for about 2 years :lol:

And right now, I don't have confidence that we can beat anyone. Doesn't mean I want McD fired. When you lose 4 straight and lose to 2 of the worst teams in the league and get killed at home by Oakland, I cant be feeling too confident.

Up until the last 2 weeks. I felt that we could beat anyone. I felt that we were back to back facemask penalties from beating the Jags. I felt that we were a 4th and 2 away from tying Indy and maybe going on to win. I felt that we were a late pass interference away from beating the Jets. I felt that against the Ravens, the penalties early on, on Eddie Royal's big play could have maybe changed how the game went. But probably not since we always lose to the Ravens. I felt that we were a team that were a few mistakes away from being good.

Then after Oakland and San Fran, I just feel like our hopes were killed by that crushing Jets loss. And all hope was gone.

All I can hope for is that the bye week regrouped us. 3 out of our next 4 are vs AFC West teams and then the Rams at home. You can still be better then someone and have a worse coach then other teams. Just like you can be worse then someone and have a better coach. I still feel that McDaniels is a better coach then those other 3 guys and still feel that we'll finish with a better record then all those teams.

Funny how people get blasted so much by thier opinions.

Good post and it is NOT funny because you get blasted for having faith in someone/thing.

I see lots of positives coming down the road. Yet if it is not happenig right now you have to shitcan it and start all over or listen to the pining of those that wanted someone else for a miraid of reasons from NE, he is to young, or my favorite he got rid of all the talent.

As if most of those coaches would not have not gotten players they trust to run their scheme. :laugh:
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Lonestar
11-07-2010, 10:25 AM
That's exactly what he got! :laugh:

If 24-24 in three seasons doesn't say .500 than what does? :noidea:

Guess that the 13-3 the year before means he was immune.

But then since you ignored the rest of the post. 8 out of the 11 starters on our defense were let go. At the start of last season IIRC were not starting for anyone else and IIRC were not on any active roster in the NFL.

So please tell me what a wonder D jay was left with.
Then there. Is offense. THE ONLY guy that did not start from that group was jay because he is a head case. Royal all but disappeared from football last year, hamilton early on was exposed.

Last but not least. That wonderful offense he got has had red zone issues since forever.

And "lots of yards no scoring" that seems to be the current mantra of the Josh denigators.

So please again explain what a wonderful team he was left with.
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Lonestar
11-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Too bad Bowlen said we werent "rebuilding".

What did you want him to say hey Northman we are not as good as I intially thought we have to rebuild the defense completely the Oline was a scham, after finding out most of them can't do a basic thing like block. Something they were taught in grade school.

Or best yet jat and bm are head cases one just a 911 call from setting out 8 games, the other what appears to be jeff george II.and to add to that we have a TE that can't wrap his head around one of the tenents of the JOB blocking at the LOS.

Hey I got that memo must be your not on the A distribution list. :laugh:
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Ravage!!!
11-07-2010, 10:37 AM
Please. Make up your mind. I believe the point that he was left with an 8-8 team. Not a wonderful team, ALTHOUGh it was considered to be the most talented offense left to a new coach in the entire NFL. You tried to say this wasn't "really" an 8-8 team, yet it was. If it wasn't by talent, then it was by coaching, then again, you MUST admit that we are seeing the result of having an inferior coach. Which we absolutely, do.

So please. Keep coming with the excuses and regurgitate them over and over again :coffee:

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 10:52 AM
Nobody, i repeat Nobody, has said they are or intended to rebuild. Why is that? :confused: Other team's have had no qualms being honest with their fanbase about rebuilding.

Now he should get a pass for turnover? That turnover was his doing! I don't blame him for doing it but he did it! He should be applauded or criticised for whatever the result of that turnover is. In this case, its criticism!

My expectations were high after the 6-0 start? YOU DON'T KNOW ME! I criticised this team at 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. :lol: Cute try though! The fact is if this team went anything better than 4-14 say 7-11 I would be a lot less vocal. If this team wasn't showing signs of regressing as bad as it is, I wouldn't be so vocal!

I'm curious, seeing how you seem to be a Tebow fan first, how long have you been a Broncos fan? :confused:

At the end of the day McDaniels isn't the type to blow smoke up people's ass. He made the quote about the appeal of this job was not having to rebuild. He made the quote how he was going to VASTLY improve upon the 08 O's rankings and efficiency. The idea we are rebuilding is an excuse for the apologists that lacks merit let alone support.

Things change. Many time when you buy a house thinking that everything is great only to find there is termite damage or a broken pipe causes huge damage. You have to adapt and fix the problem. Pretty sure no one thought coming in here that jay would be a whiny bitch, or BM would be even more of a head case that he was before. Might not have thought our "great" oline could even do the basics BLOCK.

Pretty sure he knew most of the skells on D needed to go. Yet did not mention rebuilding.

Hmmmmmm.


So things change.

So call me an apologist because I see the REASONS and have not asked him to be excused. Just see it for what it is reason for the issues

Y'all seem not to know the difference.
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Lonestar
11-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Totally agree, but we arent a legit team and thats the problem.

I agree but then I was not expecting the playoffs this year any way.

My expectations. Were break even this year with about a 7-9 maybe if we got a couple of breaks 9-7. record. But instead of breaks we seem to have been broken in getting TD's called back and a face mask ona hail mary with seconds left.

With a couple breaks this year we are 4-4 with the easy part of the schedule coming up and ayers due back soon.

I like what I see coming if not this year for sure next year.

About to board a plane from ATL
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Ravage!!!
11-07-2010, 11:22 AM
Childress was how close to the Super Bowl last year? Guess who is MAJORLY on the hot seat right now, and was almost fired last week? Mid-season. A lot of that has to do with mis-managing of player personnel, and bad play calling on the field (such as going for it on 4th down last week). How many injuries have they had to deal with? Seems owners just don't buy into those excuses as some would around here.

BroncoBJ
11-07-2010, 11:22 AM
Something else no one is talking about. People talking about Spags and Raheem and Schwartz. And out of the 3 of them. Only Schwartz led his team to more wins then they had the year before he got there. The Lions went from 0 to 2. While the Rams went from 2 to 1. Pretty damn bad. But thats been discussed.

Now, Raheem took over a team that was 9-7. And they were 9-3 until they had an epic collapse in 2008. Why are people saying he took over a bad team? He took over a team that was 9-3 and then 9-7 and turned them in to a 3-13 team. Thats 6 wins worse then they were the previous season. McDaniels has us 6 wins worse then we were last year and the year before.

So did Raheem take over a horrible team? I mean they went 9-7, then he gets there and turns them in to a 3-13 team? I could only imagine if McDaniels had did that his 1st year here :lol:

Hell people wanted him fired for turning an 8-8 team in to an 8-8 team. I still believe that we have the best coach out of them all. And if McDaniels doesn't succeed here, he will succeeed somewhere else as a head coach.

GEM
11-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Guys, the last few pages have gotten far too personal. We can all disagree in a respectful manner without getting personal. Let's clean it up.

spikerman
11-07-2010, 01:06 PM
After they lose 3 more games we can talk about getting worse till then we are no worse than the last 3 years of mikeys regime.

Call me then OK.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums So you really are satisfied with the job McD has done up to now? If so, only your blind hatred for the past coach could justify that in any way. So, if Denver loses three more games will you come back and post that the team actually is worse?

spikerman
11-07-2010, 01:07 PM
Stopped reading at this point.

Just what talent did DEN have that your hung up with. Jay the strong arm weak minded QB or marshall who never met a woman that he did not have to rough up. TS the TE that couldn't block. Maybe it was leach that was great but due for a contract and replaced with a guy that cost us 250K more than leach would have BFD. Hillis is a maybe but absolutelty no one blinked an eye other than Tned when he was traded other than a few Quinn haters.

Sorry but I doubt that any of those teams were that much worse than we were. Mostly coaching. From OKC about to take off back with Y'all from ATL.
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Too bad you stopped reading, maybe you could have learned something. I'm not going to rehash the same argument again and again. You know the one I'm talking about. The one you try (to your credit - usually successfully) to turn every thread into.

**EDIT - I realized after I reread this that it may come across as getting personal and I definitely don't want to do that, especially after GEM's warning, but what I'm actually talking about is the poster's argument and not the poster himself. In fact, I normally enjoy reading his posts.

BroncoWave
11-07-2010, 01:50 PM
cY_oKve-bH0

nevcraw
11-07-2010, 02:38 PM
cY_oKve-bH0

pretty hard to learn without it.. Hindsight that is.. not Soutpark..

BroncoWave
11-07-2010, 02:43 PM
pretty hard to learn without it.. Hindsight that is.. not Soutpark..

It's also REALLY easy to judge things with it.

Northman
11-07-2010, 02:47 PM
Hindsight, no hinsight is irrelevant. This team is in trouble and going nowhere fast.

BroncoBJ
11-07-2010, 02:57 PM
Hindsight, no hinsight is irrelevant. This team is in trouble and going nowhere fast.

I have a feeling were going 10-6 and gonna win the Superbowl this year :elefant:

Northman
11-07-2010, 02:57 PM
I have a feeling were going 10-6 and gonna win the Superbowl this year :elefant:

Puff puff pass. :beer:

TXBRONC
11-07-2010, 03:06 PM
Are you implying that when Spags took over St. Louis was a .500 team? I think the circumstances for in which McD took over was much more positive than what Spags had to deal with coming in. Had Spags too over a .500 team you might have a point but that wasnt the case.

McDaniels had a lot more to work with than Spagnuolo did.

TXBRONC
11-07-2010, 03:22 PM
WHAT? Pace...out of the league after being humiliated in Chicago. Holt..same. Bulger...backup somewhere. Culter, Marshall and Scheffler (I'll keep the list short) are all active members of their respective teams. You cant compare three guys with one foot in the grave with three star second year players. :tsk:

There is a huge freakin difference between letting go three players WELL past their prime and three players just coming into their prime.

broncobryce
11-07-2010, 03:41 PM
The broncos should have drafted Tom Brady.

nevcraw
11-07-2010, 05:01 PM
It's also REALLY easy to judge things with it.

1. It's a fan footbal website.. what are we here to do if not disect and judge?

2. these cat's make 100's of millions of dollars -- they should get it right.

3. from the 09 coaching class the coach with the plum of the plum jobs "Mcdaniels" is the only one not making his team better. Hindsight may prevent them from making this mistake again.. - just cuz he comes from NE.....

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 05:48 PM
So you really are satisfied with the job McD has done up to now? If so, only your blind hatred for the past coach could justify that in any way. So, if Denver loses three more games will you come back and post that the team actually is worse?

Am I satisfied with what Josh has done so far. Overall have no major compliants other than maybe conditioning for the hamstring issues.

To set it straight I did not hate mikey the coach. I did not like mikey the GM for his extremely poor personnel decisons from about 99-05 and then again in 07-08. Lots of wasted money and dead cap space in FA.

If we legitmately lose 3 games. By that I means games we have a legit chance of winning and not on fluke plays. I will call it like it is.

I know you believe that Josh can do nothing right. But I do not see it.
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spikerman
11-07-2010, 06:00 PM
Am I satisfied with what Josh has done so far. Overall have no major compliants other than maybe conditioning for the hamstring issues.

To set it straight I did not hate mikey the coach. I did not like mikey the GM for his extremely poor personnel decisons from about 99-05 and then again in 07-08. Lots of wasted money and dead cap space in FA.

If we legitmately lose 3 games. By that I means games we have a legit chance of winning and not on fluke plays. I will call it like it is.

I know you believe that Josh can do nothing right. But I do not see it.
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A loss is a loss is a loss. If you're going to say Denver lost on fluke plays then you have to admit that they won on a fluke in Tennessee.

I do believe McDaniels can do something right. He just hasn't so far. :D

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:12 PM
The broncos should have drafted Tom Brady.

someone would have whined about it because we would have taken him a round to early.;)

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:19 PM
A loss is a loss is a loss. If you're going to say Denver lost on fluke plays then you have to admit that they won on a fluke in Tennessee.

I do believe McDaniels can do something right. He just hasn't so far. :D

Sorry I don't recall it but if YOU say so OK by me.

So the fluke plays so far this year are DEN -2.

do you suppose we may get a couple back yet this year. :laugh::laugh:

I see us doing better the second half of the year. what looked like a cream puff schedule at the beginning of the year suddenly got harder. Not harder than the first half but still not easy.

As I have said many things before I will panic if we continue to have shoddy play like in the OAK game. IF that happens then I have something to worry about.


BTW "Do not worry about things beyond your own control" - Dale Carnegie How to stop worrying and start Living.

spikerman
11-07-2010, 06:24 PM
Sorry I don't recall it but if YOU say so OK by me.

So the fluke plays so far this year are DEN -2.

do you suppose we may get a couple back yet this year. :laugh::laugh:

I see us doing better the second half of the year. what looked like a cream puff schedule at the beginning of the year suddenly got harder. Not harder than the first half but still not easy.

As I have said many things before I will panic if we continue to have shoddy play like in the OAK game. IF that happens then I have something to worry about.


BTW "Do not worry about things beyond your own control" - Dale Carnegie How to stop worrying and start Living. I admire your optimism Jr. I wish I shared it. I hope you're right. Like I've said before, I would be willing to give McDaniels more time if they could hire a competent personnel guy, but I don't see that happening either.

As for your Carnegie quote, I know it well. Two things:

1. I don't actually "worry" about this stuff as though it's life and death, just like to talk about it.
2. If we didn't talk about this stuff what would be the point of a message board?

Northman
11-07-2010, 06:27 PM
2. If we didn't talk about this stuff what would be the point of a message board?

Yep.

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:38 PM
I admire your optimism Jr. I wish I shared it. I hope you're right. Like I've said before, I would be willing to give McDaniels more time if they could hire a competent personnel guy, but I don't see that happening either.

As for your Carnegie quote, I know it well. Two things:

1. I don't actually "worry" about this stuff as though it's life and death, just like to talk about it.
2. If we didn't talk about this stuff what would be the point of a message board?

to talk about something OTHER than bashing the head coach, QB, Owner, COO.

it is getting depressing with every ******* thread being someone whining about something.



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FWIW the first page of broncos talk.

Probably beyond my posts in them probably not 20 positive posts in all of them.

Yes the season has been a disappointment.

there have been a lot of them in 50+years. take a ******* number.

Northman
11-07-2010, 06:39 PM
Winning cures everything.

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:43 PM
Winning cures everything.

for you perhaps but not for all..


I'd rather have strong wins than skimming by with a FG in the last seconds of the game.

When I go to the playoffs I want to kick ass not get it kicked.

Color me funny like that But I'm tired of getting our ass kicked in the playoffs every time since our SB years.

Northman
11-07-2010, 06:45 PM
for you perhaps but not for all..


I'd rather have strong wins than skimming by with a FG in the last seconds of the game.

When I go to the playoffs I want to kick ass not get it kicked.

Color me funny like that But I'm tired of getting our ass kicked in the playoffs every time since our SB years.


I dont care if we win a SB by 1 point or 50 points. Just win. Of course, it would help to ACTUALLY make the playoffs first. :lol:

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 06:51 PM
I dont care if we win a SB by 1 point or 50 points. Just win. Of course, it would help to ACTUALLY make the playoffs first. :lol:

You see that is the difference in you and me. I like quality, not quantity.

For me I'd rather not go to the play offs to be one and done.

Northman
11-07-2010, 06:52 PM
You see that is the difference in you and me. I like quality, not quantity.

For me I'd rather not go to the play offs to be one and done.

Better to have a chance than no chance at all like we are now.

turftoad
11-07-2010, 06:55 PM
Playoffs?? Are you guys talking playoffs??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shazam!
11-07-2010, 07:29 PM
It's not even the losses it's how they've lost. The Oakland game in particular.

This thread is crazy itself.

"Denver should've signed _____________ as Coach" could've been anyone other than McDaniels.

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Better to have a chance than no chance at all like we are now.


Not interested at this point, unless we get our players healthy and we can make a legit run.

Lonestar
11-07-2010, 07:33 PM
Playoffs?? Are you guys talking playoffs??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

that is what I'm thinking as beat up as this team is not happening.

turftoad
11-07-2010, 07:37 PM
that is what I'm thinking as beat up as this team is not happening.

It's not just cuz the team is beat up JR. :tsk:

Thats just another excuse, one after the other.

turftoad
11-07-2010, 07:43 PM
It's not even the losses it's how they've lost. The Oakland game in particular.

This thread is crazy itself.

"Denver should've signed _____________ as Coach" could've been anyone other than McDaniels.

Agreed. I would have prefered any other coach that went to a new team the year McD came to Denver.

Dreadnought
11-07-2010, 07:46 PM
It's not just cuz the team is beat up JR. :tsk:

Thats just another excuse, one after the other.

Agreed. Its also the total mismanagement of the roster (we are now worse in almost every position we have changed apart from Free Safety), the game day ineptitude, the awful inter-personel skills, the complete lack of leadership ability, and the immaturity.

On the plus side? It is said he's intelligent. I'll accept that. That and a couple of bucks, as they say, will buy you a cuppa coffee. Intelligent guys are frankly a dime a dozen

spikerman
11-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Agreed. Its also the total mismanagement of the roster (we are now worse in almost every position we have changed apart from Free Safety), the game day ineptitude, the awful inter-personel skills, the complete lack of leadership ability, and the immaturity.

On the plus side? It is said he's intelligent. I'll accept that. That and a couple of bucks, as they say, will buy you a cuppa coffee. Intelligent guys are frankly a dime a dozen

Honestly I keep hearing about him being a genius "X's and O's" guy. I'm not sure there is enough evidence to back that up for sure. Of course his supporters are going to point to the records set during their last SB season, but how hard is it to play offense with a dominating offensive line, a HoF QB, the most physically gifted WR in history, and probably the best slot WR in recent memory? I'm not sure that most OC's wouldn't have put up great numbers with that group. Even with that group, McD wasn't able to figure out what Spags' defense was doing to him in the SB and adjust to it.

I'm sure he's a smart guy, but I'm just not sure there is enough evidence of his "genius" to not question it.

turftoad
11-07-2010, 08:17 PM
Agreed. Its also the total mismanagement of the roster (we are now worse in almost every position we have changed apart from Free Safety), the game day ineptitude, the awful inter-personel skills, the complete lack of leadership ability, and the immaturity.

On the plus side? It is said he's intelligent. I'll accept that. That and a couple of bucks, as they say, will buy you a cuppa coffee. Intelligent guys are frankly a dime a dozen

I know a lot of intelligent guys that have zero people skills.

Most of them are in appropriate lines of work. :shocked:

Magnificent Seven
11-07-2010, 08:22 PM
Broncos have lost Defensive Coordinator Mike Nolan. That is major hurt our Broncos organization.

Medford Bronco
11-07-2010, 08:25 PM
It's not even the losses it's how they've lost. The Oakland game in particular.

This thread is crazy itself.

"Denver should've signed _____________ as Coach" could've been anyone other than McDaniels.

Why is it crazy? McD bascially in a year and a half tore this team up and made them a laughingstock. The Rams have built and look good for the future. 6-0 to 4-14 is a joke.

I think it is relevant.

I saw KC and Oak play today. they are both a million times better than we are and will kick our asses the next time we play them.

We are unprepared and look like shit most games.

I think Spags and the aformentioned Raheem Morris have done a better job with less talent.

WE are in for a lot of bad years unless this bum gets better or the boot.


The run game was the staple of this team and now it is a joke.

Peyton Hillis (yes I was not high on him either but I like him better than Maroney and a cloud of dust). tore through NE today.

We are in disarray and it is sad to watch us now.

I think it is our right as fans to question and also make points. Its my opinion that Spags would not have wanted to start over like McD.

Just my take, people dont have to disagree, but to say McD has done a good job to me a laugable.

Medford Bronco
11-07-2010, 08:26 PM
Playoffs?? Are you guys talking playoffs??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOnDrM

Classic:lol:

I wanted to embed this but am having a hard time right now.

spikerman
11-07-2010, 08:30 PM
Why is it crazy? McD bascially in a year and a half tore this team up and made them a laughingstock. The Rams have built and look good for the future. 6-0 to 4-14 is a joke.

I think it is relevant.

I saw KC and Oak play today. they are both a million times better than we are and will kick our asses the next time we play them.

We are unprepared and look like shit most games.

I think Spags and the aformentioned Raheem Morris have done a better job with less talent.

WE are in for a lot of bad years unless this bum gets better or the boot.


The run game was the staple of this team and now it is a joke.

Peyton Hillis (yes I was not high on him either but I like him better than Maroney and a cloud of dust). tore through NE today.

We are in disarray and it is sad to watch us now.

I think it is our right as fans to question and also make points. Its my opinion that Spags would not have wanted to start over like McD.

Just my take, people dont have to disagree, but to say McD has done a good job to me a laugable.

Med, I could be wrong, but I took his post to mean that he agrees with you. I also took it to mean that it didn't matter whether it was Spags or somebody else, pretty much anybody else should have been hired. I may be wrong, but that was how I read it.

Medford Bronco
11-07-2010, 08:33 PM
Med, I could be wrong, but I took his post to mean that he agrees with you. I also took it to mean that it didn't matter whether it was Spags or somebody else, pretty much anybody else should have been hired. I may be wrong, but that was how I read it.

Maybe that is it and if so I do apolgize. :salute:

Just a bad day of football. Lost 2 games at the end on the point spread (stupid Chiefs and Eagles :lol: )

Some here think just because McD was under BB he is good. I say right now he sucks.

Medford Bronco
11-07-2010, 08:35 PM
It's also REALLY easy to judge things with it.

Right and this was such a great decision on by the FO.

I hate being irrelevant and the Broncos are irrelevant right now in the West

Medford Bronco
11-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Honestly I keep hearing about him being a genius "X's and O's" guy. I'm not sure there is enough evidence to back that up for sure. Of course his supporters are going to point to the records set during their last SB season, but how hard is it to play offense with a dominating offensive line, a HoF QB, the most physically gifted WR in history, and probably the best slot WR in recent memory? I'm not sure that most OC's wouldn't have put up great numbers with that group. Even with that group, McD wasn't able to figure out what Spags' defense was doing to him in the SB and adjust to it.

I'm sure he's a smart guy, but I'm just not sure there is enough evidence of his "genius" to not question it.

The genius in the Pats offense back in the day was Charlie Wies, not McD

Ravage!!!
11-07-2010, 08:37 PM
and to add to that we have a TE that can't wrap his head around one of the tenents of the JOB blocking at the LOS.

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I remember you saying that Hillis was just a 7th round FB that couldn't block and wasn't smart enough for the offense. We wouldn't miss him. How odd that we are hearing you say, yet the same things, about another traded away player.

Northman
11-07-2010, 08:46 PM
Guess we should be thankful we dont have to play against Hillis. He would go over 300yds easily.

I Eat Staples
11-07-2010, 08:47 PM
Anyone would have been better than McD.