Orton rated second most underrated player in the NFL

[broncobryce]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-11/midseason-report/story/nfl-midseason-report-players-poll

Players poll: Foster impresses

Sporting NewsSporting News

At the midpoint of the season, Sporting News's 32 team correspondents fanned out in locker rooms around the league to ask 100 NFL players
everything you want to know about what has happened—and what will down the stretch:
Offensive MVP

1. Peyton Manning, Colts (27 votes). Texans OT Eric Winston says: "Teammates come and go, but Peyton just keeps throwing and winning. He wins at home and on the road. Nothing seems to affect him. Year in and year out, he just makes everything look so easy."

2. Tom Brady, QB, Patriots (14)
3. Arian Foster, RB, Texans (10)
Defensive MVP

1. Clay Matthews, OLB, Packers (38). Seahawks MLB Lofa Tatupu says: "You see how that defense is different without him. Everything about him, even the attitude he brings."

2. James Harrison, OLB, Steelers (12)
3. Osi Umenyiora, DE, Giants (8)
Rookie of the Year

1. Sam Bradford, QB, Rams (49). Bengals OT Andrew Whitworth says: "What he's been able to do as a rookie is nothing short of phenomenal. He's probably got the hardest challenge in trying to turn that franchise around, and he's doing it."

2. Dez Bryant, WR, Cowboys (16)
3. Ndamukong Suh, DT, Lions (9)
Coach of the Year

1. Mike Tomlin, Steelers (25). Colts CB Deshea Townsend says: "I know everybody says if one guy is down, everybody's got to do their job just a little bit better. ... They just went about their business, and he kept his guys focused until his leader got back in."

2. Todd Haley, Chiefs (22)
3. Rex Ryan, Jets (17)
Super Bowl 45 Champions

1. Jets (23). Vikings CB Antoine Winfield says: "They're playing at a high level, and their confidence is very high right now."

2. Steelers (21)
3. Giants (14)
Most underrated player

1. Arian Foster, RB, Texans (8). Panthers S Charles Godfrey says: "He's a complete back. I respect that. When a back will block for their quarterback, can get into the open field and catch the ball and make people miss, that's great."

2. Kyle Orton, QB, Broncos (7)
3. Ahmad Bradshaw, RB, Giants (4)
Most overrated player

1. (tie) Tony Romo, QB, Cowboys and Brett Favre, QB, Vikings (17)
3. Terrell Owens, WR, Bengals (10)
Toughest to game plan for

1. Peyton Manning, QB, Colts (30). Seahawks OLB Aaron Curry says: "It's a no-brainer. He gets the ball every snap, and it seems like he has his own game plan going on in his brain. You're just not getting the same thing that was on film. You get whatever he decides he wants to give you. He shows you what he wants to show you and then he does something else. A magician."

Texans CB Glover Quin says: "He's one of the greatest quarterbacks in history. There's nothing he can't do on the field. You can knock him down, but you can't knock him out of the game. He's durable. He's so smart. When he's across the line of scrimmage and going through his (histrionics), you wonder if he knows what you're doing or it's fake. Right when you think you know what he's going to do—like where he's going with the ball—he does something different. He can't be fooled. You can't trick him. He's seen everything. He uses the whole field. He gets rid of the ball fast. He checks down really well. He's not going to beat himself. That's why you have to make plays if you're going to beat him."

Niners S Dashon Goldson says: "You have to be very disciplined because he can do so much disguising. He's like a coach on the football field. He'll get to the line of scrimmage, and we'll line up with some defense and make our calls. And he's like 'Hut! Hut! Hut!' and switches out to something else. So it's important to hold your water and know what you're doing. He's good with the play clock, too."

2. Michael Vick, QB, Eagles (8)
3. (tie) Drew Brees, QB, Saints (8)
3. (tie) Troy Polamalu, S, Steelers (8)
5. Chris Johnson, RB, Titans (6)
6. Julius Peppers, DE, Bears (5)
7. (tie) Jared Allen, DE, Vikings (3)
7. (tie) Tom Brady, QB, Patriots (3)
7. (tie) Reggie Bush, RB, Saints (3)
10. (tie) Dwight Freeney, DE, Colts (2)
10. (tie) Andre Johnson, WR, Texans (2)
10. (tie) Ray Lewis, ILB, Ravens (2)
10. (tie) Adrian Peterson, RB, Vikings (2)
Also: 15 players received one vote
Dirtiest player

1. Cortland Finnegan, CB, Titans (19)
2. James Harrison, OLB, Steelers (16)
3. Hines Ward, WR, Steelers (13)
4. Richie Incognito, G, Dolphins (6)
5. (tie) Brandon Meriweather, S, Patriots (5)
5. (tie) Dominic Raiola, C, Lions (5)
7. Shaun Smith, DT, Chiefs (4)
8. Tyson Clabo, OT, Falcons (2)
9. Darnell Dockett, DT, Cardinals (2)
10. Bart Scott, ILB, Jets (2)

Also: 18 players received one vote
Hardest hitter

1. James Harrison, OLB, Steelers (38). Raiders CB Stanford Routt says: "He uses his size and speed to great effect and isn't afraid to lay the wood on someone. When he hits you, you're going to know it for sure. He got fined for one of those hits, but it looked legal to me. He's a beast."

2. Ray Lewis, ILB, Ravens (36)
3. Patrick Willis, ILB, 49ers (4)
4. (tie) Bart Scott, ILB, Jets (2). Broncos DL Justin Bannan says: "He doesn't care. He does it legally. He just doesn't care about himself. He'll throw it all in there."

4. (tie) LaRon Landry, S, Redskins (2)
4. (tie) Adrian Wilson, S, Cardinals (2)

Also: 10 players received one vote
Biggest surprise

1. Arian Foster, RB, Texans, (19). Bills RB Fred Jackson says: "I thought he was a good back, but I didn't see this coming. He has been outstanding, one of the best in the league, if not the best. He's having a great year."

Titans LB Stephen Tulloch says: "He is good man. He's a baller. He really caught my attention the first game of the season, and he hasn't let up. He is a good player. He hits the hole, hard, has good vision and he is definitely a bruiser.''

2. LaDainian Tomlinson, RB, Jets (8)
3. Sam Bradford, QB, Rams (7)
4. (tie) Mike Williams, WR, Seahawks (5)
4. (tie) Ndamukong Suh, DT, Lions (5)
6. (tie) Brandon Lloyd, WR, Broncos (4)
6. (tie) Hakeem Nicks, WR, Giants (4)
6. (tie) Michael Vick, QB, Eagles (4)
6. (tie) Osi Umenyiora, DE, Giants (4)
10. Clay Matthews, OLB, Packers (3)
11. (tie) Josh Freeman, QB, Bucs (2)
11. (tie) Mark Sanchez, QB, Jets (2)
11. (tie) Peyton Hillis, RB, Browns (2)
11. (tie) Kyle Orton, QB, Broncos (2)
11. (tie) Ahmad Bradshaw, RB, Giants (2)

Also: 14 players received one vote
Biggest disappointment

1. Brett Favre, QB, Vikings (27)
2. Tony Romo, QB, Cowboys (18)
3. Albert Haynesworth, DT, Redskins (8)
4. Darrelle Revis, CB, Jets (5)
5. Chad Ochocinco, WR, Bengals (4)
6. (tie) Drew Brees, QB, Saints (3)
6. (tie) Jay Cutler, QB, Bears (3)
8. (tie) Jason Campbell, QB, Raiders (2)
8. (tie) Carson Palmer, QB, Bengals (2)
Also: 10 players received one vote
When will a new CBA be reached?

1. Summer 2011 (39)
2. Spring 2011 (29)
3. Fall 2011 (20)
4. This season (11)

Bucs OLB Geno Hayes: "It's going to take a while, but I'm going to be optimistic and say they get something done so that we can play."

Falcons S Erik Coleman: "I hope this season because this is a great game. It's been great for all of us. The players believe if the owners are losing money, they must be mismanaging their profits from lucrative TV contracts. The players would like the owners to open their financial books. You hear about all of the financial woes. What we are asking is that they show us the financial woes."
If compensated with more game checks, would you favor an 18-game schedule?

1. No (73)
2. Yes (25)

Eagles QB Michael Vick says: "It's a lot of wear and tear on our bodies. The paycheck is good, but at the end of the day your longevity is more important. If that's what we have to do, then we've got to do it, but I'm not in favor of it."

Redskins ILB London Fletcher says: "No, because of the amount ofa injuries. It increases the possibility of injuries long term, and it shortens careers for guys. Yeah, you get two more checks, but your career will be shortened."

Redskins CB Carlos Rogers says: "No. The risk of injuries is much higher, especially when they're talking about protecting players and how many concussions we've had this year vs. past years. Now you want to add more games? I don't think the risk of injuries is worth it. It will be much higher and the workload on players bodies, with 16 games and you add the playoffs, that's a lot of work. Adding two more games and taking away two preseason games, I don't think that helps the longevity of players' bodies."
Do you agree with the NFL's hard line against illegal hits?

1. No (58)
2. Yes (38)

Titans G Jake Scott says: "It's football. Somebody said it best the other day. ‘You stop being defenseless when you step between the lines.' "

Jaguars WR Mike Sims-Walker says: "For one, it's contradicting the game of football. Football is a smash-mouth sport. Guys are taught since we started the game, ‘Hit 'em in the mouth' or ‘Put a helmet on 'em.' … You're so worried about getting fined your paycheck for the next three weeks in trying to tackle a guy it puts you in a bad situation, so guys are going to be doing more thinking than playing."
What is your level of concern about the long-term effects of concussions?

1. High (54)
2. Moderate (32)
3. Low (14)

Browns OT Joe Thomas says: "The interesting thing, and the scary thing to me, was when we went to Hawaii and heard a doctor who has been studying brain injuries in autopsies of boxers and linemen and receivers and people who have had concussions. They actually found a greater incidence of problems in linemen. What they attribute it to is not necessarily the one big concussive blow. It's 60 a game. It's twice a day in training camp, every day during the season. You're slamming heads, and it's repetitive on a lower scale that you don't get to recover from, unlike when a player is sitting out after a concussion."

Bengals RB Cedric Benson: “It’s definitely of great concern. If you’re not concerned, you’re being foolish. I am aware of the studies and tests about the long-term effects from concussions, but I don’t think about that now. I’ll think about it after I’m done playing. The health risks of playing in the NFL are great. That’s why we should get paid more.”


Read more: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-11/midseason-report/story/nfl-midseason-report-players-poll#ixzz14RwQCYYk

[dogfish]

pfft! orton sucks, he can't win-- put in tebow!

[Dzone]

Great Post! Thanks!
Nice to see no broncos on the dirtiest player list...LOL
I think Peter King at SI had Brandon Loyd on his Mid season All Pro team...

[CHARLIEADAMSFAN]

Brandon Lloyd shocked me... surprised he's not higher

[Canmore]

Brandon Lloyd shocked me... surprised he's not higher

??? Higher than what?

[robert ethan]

They voted Kyle the second most underrated player in the game. But they spelled his name Horton on the voter list. :)

[CHARLIEADAMSFAN]

??? Higher than what?


True didn't pay full attention to the list

[claymore]

Hopefully we can get something more than a 4th round pick for Orton when he leaves.

[Medford Bronco]

pfft! orton sucks, he can't win-- put in tebow!

HOw but some TDs and not hollow stats.

[Lancane]

Hopefully we can get something more than a 4th round pick for Orton when he leaves.

Well, maybe we'll get lucky and get a 2nd round pick for him, then McDaniels can trade it for a 3rd round pick, then select another cornerback that we'll cut a year later...but we needed him for that one.

:lol:

[BroncoStud]

Orton's underrated until 3rd down, inside the redzone, or when Denver needs a clutch play, then he just shows us that he is just average.

[Softskull]

HOw but some TDs and not hollow stats.

Here lies my problem with Horton. He's been arguably our best offensive player, but the bar this year hasn't been exceptionally high. He's made passes this year that I didn't really think he had in him, but he cant carry a team. Quick stats on Horton:

TD/pass - 3.8% 24th in league
3rd down pass % - 39% 22nd in league
Redzone pass % - 40.8% 33rd in league
Picks in 4th Qrt - 3 Fourth most in NFL

He has lots of great passing numbers, lot's of long passes, tons of YAC numbers, but he's not the guy to put the team on his shoulders.

[Oldschoolcrush]

What do we see from Orton?
Dink and dunk to WR's, WR screens and the deep strike.

There are no slants, no over the middle, no TE, no receiving back!
These are your production plays..... When you find holes in the middle, have a strong target TE; it opens the line to the run and allows you to truly stretch the field of play with WR's, with the available check down options.
3rd down is a perfect example, Orton gets it done when he can dink and dunk WR's and then hit a deep strike. When he cant tarry between the two and is forced to throw the ball for a specific yardage of any significance... forget about it!
There is zero production from the TE position, and there is no option for a receiving back...... Success is when you start seeing everyone involved including a token toss to the hard working fullback.... anyone guess what position I played?
When the love is spread around by the quarterback and done so appropriately (not utilizing WR's to fill in ever spot), it spreads the defense and frees up the prolific talent you can really use to exploit it. 3rd down is just another play to this type of offense.

[Oldschoolcrush]

Everyone crying out that they should put Tebow in, I question whether he would be any more successful in anything other than what Orton is already doing?

[Northman]

Everyone crying out that they should put Tebow in, I question whether he would be any more successful in anything other than what Orton is already doing?

Its not about success, just experience. We know what we got in Orton, we dont know what we got in Tebow.

[UrbanBounca]

Everyone crying out that they should put Tebow in, I question whether he would be any more successful in anything other than what Orton is already doing?

That's the point. Orton can't score, and we've already lost the division. It's time for a change.
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[Ravage!!!]

Everyone crying out that they should put Tebow in, I question whether he would be any more successful in anything other than what Orton is already doing?

Yeah.. I don't think anyone is saying we would expect more success from Tebow at this point. No one was crying out for Tebow to start (other than the Tebow fanatics) the season or even when we were early in the year. But after 2-6, I think many have accepted that its time to get teh rookie some playing time and some VEry valued experience.

[Oldschoolcrush]

That's the point. Orton can't score, and we've already lost the division. It's time for a change.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums
Do you set him up for failure? Is this how you produce a prolific quarterback?

Is the aging Graham going to start making fantastic catches?
Or the other TE we traded for going to show up? See, don't remember his name!

The only possibility is the mobility of Tebow, but that is something you want when you need it, not because you need it!

[Softskull]

Yeah.. I don't think anyone is saying we would expect more success from Tebow at this point. No one was crying out for Tebow to start (other than the Tebow fanatics) the season or even when we were early in the year. But after 2-6, I think many have accepted that its time to get teh rookie some playing time and some VEry valued experience.

Agreed. And we as fans don't have much to really hope in for the near future. If Tebow came in and really showed promise, not necissarily even win but just the potential of first rounder we used on him, I think we all would have a glimmer of hope here in Broncoland. I think the fans deserve a little somethin' somethin.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed. And we as fans don't have much to really hope in for the near future. If Tebow came in and really showed promise, not necissarily even win but just the potential of first rounder we used on him, I think we all would have a glimmer of hope here in Broncoland. I think the fans deserve a little somethin' somethin.

exactly. At this point I'm not looking for wins. Hell, dont' even expect them. But for those that think putting a QB in now isn't going to let him learn from losing.... look how a certain QB in St Louis is progressing as the season goes along. Look how Stafford progressed as the season went last year. ITs HUGE experience that just builds for the next year.

[Ravage!!!]

Do you set him up for failure? Is this how you produce a prolific quarterback?

Is the aging Graham going to start making fantastic catches?
Or the other TE we traded for going to show up? See, don't remember his name!

The only possibility is the mobility of Tebow, but that is something you want when you need it, not because you need it!

Failure as in losing? How will it hurt him? Isn't this system set up to give the QB success? We saw it with cassel and now with Orton.. why not let him complete some passes and get into the NFL game speed? Would be good to get his feet wet and even get some tough hits... some losses.. and see how he reacts to that. The last time we saw Tebow lose, he was crying on the sidelines.

[BroncoStud]

Here lies my problem with Horton. He's been arguably our best offensive player, but the bar this year hasn't been exceptionally high. He's made passes this year that I didn't really think he had in him, but he cant carry a team. Quick stats on Horton:

TD/pass - 3.8% 24th in league
3rd down pass % - 39% 22nd in league
Redzone pass % - 40.8% 33rd in league
Picks in 4th Qrt - 3 Fourth most in NFL

He has lots of great passing numbers, lot's of long passes, tons of YAC numbers, but he's not the guy to put the team on his shoulders.

That about sums him up, good find.

[Lancane]

As I've stated before, I don't believe McDaniels has the cahones to move Tebow into the starting lineup. And that could be both good and bad, on one front he can let Orton rack up more yards and prim his stats making his overall trade worth skyrocket, come on' let's be completely honest, their will be teams interested come the start of the free agency period; Buffalo, Seattle, Washington, Dallas, Minnesota and so on...especially those with a need to win now rather then later. On the other front, I agree with many posters that experience is a plus to his development in someways, such as the speed of the game, understanding and comprehension of pro defenses, even the in and outs' of pro offenses...but he could also be hindered, and do well with learning while on the bench.

As a fan, I want something to be excited about, and while Orton is doing well in his effort to try and carry this team, it's not his forte. He is in all fairness a system quarterback, I don't give a shit who thinks otherwise...the proof is in the numbers and in his history...but I don't want to take away from him either, and so I must say out of all of those on the roster, I've not seen him quit whilst others have so easily given up. I do not believe for a minute that being benched would be detrimental to Orton, he's use to it in fact, so few have ever had faith in him as a pro. But when you're not winning and the majority of the fanbase is against you...a change is sometimes needed.

[Northman]

As I've stated before, I don't believe McDaniels has the cahones to move Tebow into the starting lineup. And that could be both good and bad, on one front he can let Orton rack up more yards and prim his stats making his overall trade worth skyrocket, come on' let's be completely honest, their will be teams interested come the start of the free agency period; Buffalo, Seattle, Washington, Dallas, Minnesota and so on...especially those with a need to win now rather then later. On the other front, I agree with many posters that experience is a plus to his development in someways, such as the speed of the game, understanding and comprehension of pro defenses, even the in and outs' of pro offenses...but he could also be hindered, and do well with learning while on the bench.

As a fan, I want something to be excited about, and while Orton is doing well in his effort to try and carry this team, it's not his forte. He is in all fairness a system quarterback, I don't give a shit who thinks otherwise...the proof is in the numbers and in his history...but I don't want to take away from him either, and so I must say out of all of those on the roster, I've not seen him quit whilst others have so easily given up. I do not believe for a minute that being benched would be detrimental to Orton, he's use to it in fact, so few have ever had faith in him as a pro. But when you're not winning and the majority of the fanbase is against you...a change is sometimes needed.

I actually look at his decision differently.

If he plays Tebow it means he knows he is rebuilding and has given up the ghost by allowing Tim to get playing time. But, Ellis has stated that both he and Bowlen expect a turnaround in the rest of the season so by leaving Kyle in it gives McD a chance to right the ship and avoid the possibility of being fired at season's end.

[claymore]

Its not about success, just experience. We know what we got in Orton, we dont know what we got in Tebow.

Zactly. We are going nowhere with Tebow, not saying its his fault, but he isnt a future HOF'er that can carry us.

Lets see if Tebow has some magic in him.

[UrbanBounca]

Zactly. We are going nowhere with Tebow...

They said the same about Kurt Warner and Brett Favre.
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[Bosco]

What do we see from Orton?
Dink and dunk to WR's, WR screens and the deep strike.

There are no slants, no over the middle, no TE, no receiving back!

Way to show you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

[BroncoStud]

Way to show you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

How was he wrong?

[TimTebow15MVP]

this is good. this mean the players are giving orton his respect aorund the league. w hich means his trade value will only rise.

[TimTebow15MVP]

aint a slant considered dink and dunk? most of them areo nly ran about 4-5 yards up the field. but hey........

[claymore]

They said the same about Kurt Warner and Brett Favre.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I meant Orton. My fault.

[Slick]

Orton's passing numbers may look decent in a McDaniels system but his once great winning percentage is sliding down the shitter rapidly.

i don't think he's underrated. He is what he is.

[Oldschoolcrush]

aint a slant considered dink and dunk? most of them areo nly ran about 4-5 yards up the field. but hey........
The point was the dink and dunk to WR's.... Was it not?
Tom Brady and Phillip Rivers are the masters of the dink and dunk; the difference is that they utilize the TE's, receiving backs and even the occasional FB for such a thing...... Question, where is the defense when your WR's are utilized over and over for the short gain passing?
When the long strike is always a threat and your WR's are out in their patterns, it opens up the slant TE strike and check down dump to backs to huge gains after they beat the first man. The only reason we see the deep strike from the Broncos and Orton racking up the stats is because he brings the defense in along with the WR's.... When they do break out.... BINGO! You however cannot sustain a drive and convert 3rd down situations doing so.... Leave this BS to the stats crunchers, Orton's big numbers mean nothing to the success of a team.... The offense's inability to sustain a drive and manage the clock or the scoreboard is the very reason Orton's stats look so good.... To those of us who know better?
BTW, 4-5 yds is all you need in football.... It manages the clock and converts 3rd down all day long..... If you litter that zone with defensive players because you are flooding it with your WR's.... You will not.... Repeat.... You will not sustain a drive, and you will not score on any consistent basis. Putting up only two scores in 15+ possessions and you will lose every match up.
Please read and understand what is posted before you throw insults; it will in fact show that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[TXBRONC]

Orton's passing numbers may look decent in a McDaniels system but his once great winning percentage is sliding down the shitter rapidly.

i don't think he's underrated. He is what he is.

Agreed Orton is still just a game manager that can not carry team. Orton is on pace to throw for over 5,000 yard that's great, however for all those yards he's only pace to throw 24 touchdown passes.

[BroncoStud]

MOST UNDERRATED PLAYER IN THE NFL - PEYTON HILLIS

If anyone has been watching the Browns/Patriots game, Hillis is simply dominating the Pats. Of all the mistakes this regime has made, letting Hillis walk was by far the biggest.

It looks like the Browns have a nice young tandem in Colt McCoy and Peyton Hillis. Good for them.

[BigSarge87]

I would love to see if Tebow can play, but not quite sure Bronco fans could handle it if he flops also. Then what hope is there?

[BroncoStud]

I would love to see if Tebow can play, but not quite sure Bronco fans could handle it if he flops also. Then what hope is there?

Then we need to know if the Broncos need to draft a QB or not.

[broncobryce]

I would love to see if Tebow can play, but not quite sure Bronco fans could handle it if he flops also. Then what hope is there?

Part of me wants him to play now, but if he's not quite ready I would rather wait and let the O-line get better and get healthy on defense. I don't really want to throw him in if he's not ready plus he would have to carry the team, not easy for any player to do. Just ask Orton.

But yeah, I go back and forth on it everyday.

[Northman]

I would love to see if Tebow can play, but not quite sure Bronco fans could handle it if he flops also. Then what hope is there?

The season is lost anyway, whether Tebow shines doesnt really matter this year. Obviously, we would like to see some of the things that he is supposed to bring to the game but i wouldnt expect winning out under him. But considering Colt is playing well in Cleveland i dont think it would be hard pressed to say Tebow would be ok in Denver so as long as he is worth the hype to begin with.

[Mike]

If he flops then Denver should be in good position to draft a QB. I'd rather have an idea earlier than later.

[TimTebow15MVP]

MOST UNDERRATED PLAYER IN THE NFL - PEYTON HILLIS

If anyone has been watching the Browns/Patriots game, Hillis is simply dominating the Pats. Of all the mistakes this regime has made, letting Hillis walk was by far the biggest.

It looks like the Browns have a nice young tandem in Colt McCoy and Peyton Hillis. Good for them.

its too bad peyton hillis doesnt bring in week after week lol. the guy is average, he has one good game out of 5 and bronco fans lose there minds. where were these type of comments the last 4 weeks? when he was being average like he is. oh it was the ravens game back in week 3 when he dominated them also. 2 good games outta 8. that sure is the art of being dominant.

[Northman]

its too bad peyton hillis doesnt bring in week after week lol. the guy is average, he has one good game out of 5 and bronco fans lose there minds. where were these type of comments the last 4 weeks? when he was being average like he is. oh it was the ravens game back in week 3 when he dominated them also. 2 good games outta 8. that sure is the art of being dominant.

Then your clearly not paying attention. At the start of the season he didnt get that many carries yet made the most of them. And even when he wasnt rushing very well in games he was making a impact in the RECEIVING game. I would take these "average" numbers any day of the week.

9 carries, 41yds 1 Td, 4 catches, 24 yds
8 carries, 35yds 1 Td, 3 catches, 26 yds
22 carries, 144 yds 1 TD. 7 catches, 36 yds
27 carries, 102 yds 1 TD, 2 catches, 8 yds
10 carries, 28yds, 4 catches, 49yds 1 TD
12 carries, 41yds, 6 catches, 88yds 1 TD
16 carries, 69yds 1 TD, 1 catch, 1yd
29 carries, 184yds 2 TDs, 3 catches, 36yds

He has 9 TDs so far this year. Do any of our backs have anything close to that?

[nevcraw]

Then your clearly not paying attention. At the start of the season he didnt get that many carries yet made the most of them. And even when he wasnt rushing very well in games he was making a impact in the RECEIVING game. I would take these "average" numbers any day of the week.

9 carries, 41yds 1 Td, 4 catches, 24 yds
8 carries, 35yds 1 Td, 3 catches, 26 yds
22 carries, 144 yds 1 TD. 7 catches, 36 yds
27 carries, 102 yds 1 TD, 2 catches, 8 yds
10 carries, 28yds, 4 catches, 49yds 1 TD
12 carries, 41yds, 6 catches, 88yds 1 TD
16 carries, 69yds 1 TD, 1 catch, 1yd
29 carries, 184yds 2 TDs, 3 catches, 36yds

He has 9 TDs so far this year. Do any of our backs have anything close to that?

and that's with a bunch of back-ups and and rookie playing qb and no threats on the team other than cribbs.

[nevcraw]

its too bad peyton hillis doesnt bring in week after week lol. the guy is average, he has one good game out of 5 and bronco fans lose there minds. where were these type of comments the last 4 weeks? when he was being average like he is. oh it was the ravens game back in week 3 when he dominated them also. 2 good games outta 8. that sure is the art of being dominant.

drugs are bad. :beer:

[Northman]

and that's with a bunch of back-ups and and rookie playing qb and no threats on the team other than cribbs.

And for the record, both Moreno and Bucky have 6 TD's between the both of them. :lol:

[claymore]

And for the record, both Moreno and Bucky have 6 TD's between the both of them. :lol:

But, in a pinch situation if we needed an gay underwear model on 3rd and long we have Brady Quinn.

[broncobryce]

Please don't turn this thread into a Hillis thread, god knows there are plenty of those to post in.

[TXBRONC]

I would love to see if Tebow can play, but not quite sure Bronco fans could handle it if he flops also. Then what hope is there?


If he flops then Denver should be in good position to draft a QB. I'd rather have an idea earlier than later.

I agree it's better to find it now than later. However, it might be best wait until we are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention. It our current pace that could by in two more weeks.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Then your clearly not paying attention. At the start of the season he didnt get that many carries yet made the most of them. And even when he wasnt rushing very well in games he was making a impact in the RECEIVING game. I would take these "average" numbers any day of the week.

9 carries, 41yds 1 Td, 4 catches, 24 yds
8 carries, 35yds 1 Td, 3 catches, 26 yds
22 carries, 144 yds 1 TD. 7 catches, 36 yds
27 carries, 102 yds 1 TD, 2 catches, 8 yds
10 carries, 28yds, 4 catches, 49yds 1 TD
12 carries, 41yds, 6 catches, 88yds 1 TD
16 carries, 69yds 1 TD, 1 catch, 1yd
29 carries, 184yds 2 TDs, 3 catches, 36yds

He has 9 TDs so far this year. Do any of our backs have anything close to that?

thanks for proving my point posting his stats that are indeed average. so what he gets the ball down around the goaline..... hed do nothing behind this OL. nobody does anything behind this OL while its in this shape. Unless your special and he is NOT. you guys spend your time crying over a average back bcause we dont have another average back to replace him? give me moreno at 100%. hillis is a back up in this league. hes really a Fb that can catch.

[TimTebow15MVP]

get over it hillis is GONE.

[Northman]

thanks for proving my point posting his stats that are indeed average. so what he gets the ball down around the goaline..... hed do nothing behind this OL. nobody does anything behind this OL while its in this shape. Unless your special and he is NOT. you guys spend your time crying over a average back bcause we dont have another average back to replace him? give me moreno at 100%. hillis is a back up in this league. hes really a Fb that can catch.

Actually, i just proved you dont know what your talking about. However, as Bryce pointed out this thread isnt about Hillis so time to get back on topic.

[Oldschoolcrush]

thanks for proving my point posting his stats that are indeed average. so what he gets the ball down around the goaline..... hed do nothing behind this OL. nobody does anything behind this OL while its in this shape. Unless your special and he is NOT. you guys spend your time crying over a average back bcause we dont have another average back to replace him? give me moreno at 100%. hillis is a back up in this league. hes really a Fb that can catch.
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but........ you don't have a clue what you're talking about and funny, the first to claim it of someone else.
It's obvious you haven't watched how they utilize him; he is used in the clutch when they need 2-3 yds..... Everyone is gunning for him, they are not easy gains; but consistently gains after contact is made at the point of loss or no gain.
Wait..... TD, TD, TD, TD, TD..... If you don't think Hillis was an integral part of converting 3rd down clutch plays to sustain drives you're a fool.....
In case you haven't noticed, the Broncos need a power RB that can run through/over or hurdle (probably didn't even see that play by Hillis) the first defender. The Broncos also eh hem, need a receiving back check down option to free up the wide receivers into the secondary in order to stretch the field to provide some breathing room. Did I mention the large body when they need extra protection for the QB? Have you seen Hillis? He's a beast man!
I don't think anyone has claimed that Hillis has the burst of speed to hit the hole and make defenders miss or have the glorification of the huge stats. When you need a RB to smash a defender in the mouth and later force him into tackling him low..... Hint, if you did see the hurdle... that man was simply tired of gettin' busted in the chops.
I'll say it for the last time.... Stats are only a portion of the picture. There is nothing average about Hillis unless you're nothing but a stat whore.

[Mike]

I agree it's better to find it now than later. However, it might be best wait until we are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention. It our current pace that could by in two more weeks.

Comeon man. Playoffs? Really?

At this point it probably doesn't matter; I am sure McD will stick with Orton. I wanted it to happen during the bye to give the team extra prep to transition. After the bye you have a week to prepare.

[Ravage!!!]

thanks for proving my point posting his stats that are indeed average. so what he gets the ball down around the goaline..... hed do nothing behind this OL. nobody does anything behind this OL while its in this shape. Unless your special and he is NOT. you guys spend your time crying over a average back bcause we dont have another average back to replace him? give me moreno at 100%. hillis is a back up in this league. hes really a Fb that can catch.

Hillis nearly had TWO 100 yrd rushing games in a SINGLE game, when we are still looking for the first one from Moreno.

Lest not forget... early in the season the Browns were trying to feature their young RBs. As teh weeks continue (and not coincidently after their bye).... Hillis is the featured BEAST that continues to produce ... with a BAD team that has a rookie QB. Actually, they aren't a bad team, we are.


As far as Tebow. I know the FO won't use him until we are mathmatically eliminated. But it woudl be good to see him now, and get him the same kind of experience that McCoy is getting in Cleveland, or Bradford in St. Louis, or Clausen in Carolina.

[TXBRONC]

Comeon man. Playoffs? Really?

At this point it probably doesn't matter; I am sure McD will stick with Orton. I wanted it to happen during the bye to give the team extra prep to transition. After the bye you have a week to prepare.

I understand what you're saying Mike and I wouldn't have had a problem with McDaniels making the switch at quarterback. While I have do delusions that Denver is going real off 10 straight wins and possibly make the playoffs but the math is the math right now mathematically eliminated. What I'm trying to say is that I don't see this coach making that kind of move until we absolutely removed from any chance of making the playoffs. At our current pace that will be a reality before this over.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Everyone crying out that they should put Tebow in, I question whether he would be any more successful in anything other than what Orton is already doing?

We would be more succesful in developing the QB that will be starting here soon...

Instead of developing the QB that will be starting for another team soon.

[Lancane]

We would be more succesful in developing the QB that will be starting here soon...

Instead of developing the QB that will be starting for another team soon.

McDaniels has bet his career on Tebow, and it's that exact reason why I believe he will continue to stick with Orton this season. If Kyle Orton has a 4500 to 5000 yard season, then he will be a hot commodity come next off-season, especially for those not wishing to rebuild around a freshly drafted quarterback therein giving some leverage to McDaniels in return value.

Now some will say wait up, hold a minute...Orton will be our starter next year as well, then I have too strongly disagree. The reason why Tebow will likely not be named the starter anytime this season is because that if he starts this year and shows absolutely little promise, then McDaniels is likely out of a job. But, if he waits and starts the kid next year and Tebow shows some promise...then he might earn the entirety of his contract. Either way, unless Gruden get's the post somehow because how he feels about the kid, then McDaniels will likely get to see the third year of his contract. If he kept Orton, then not only does a larger part of the base start to dislike him, but he'll be in immediate danger to lose his position as well. Tebow is likely the starter come next season, therein earning McDaniels at least that one extra year...if not both of the remaining years on his contract.

[Canmore]

McDaniels has bet his career on Tebow, and it's that exact reason why I believe he will continue to stick with Orton this season. If Kyle Orton has a 4500 to 5000 yard season, then he will be a hot commodity come next off-season, especially for those not wishing to rebuild around a freshly drafted quarterback therein giving some leverage to McDaniels in return value.

Now some will say wait up, hold a minute...Orton will be our starter next year as well, then I have too strongly disagree. The reason why Tebow will likely not be named the starter anytime this season is because that if he starts this year and shows absolutely little promise, then McDaniels is likely out of a job. But, if he waits and starts the kid next year and Tebow shows some promise...then he might earn the entirety of his contract. Either way, unless Gruden get's the post somehow because how he feels about the kid, then McDaniels will likely get to see the third year of his contract. If he kept Orton, then not only does a larger part of the base start to dislike him, but he'll be in immediate danger to lose his position as well. Tebow is likely the starter come next season, therein earning McDaniels at least that one extra year...if not both of the remaining years on his contract.

Interesting premise. I like your logic and that is something I will give McDaniels credit for even though I dissagree with his decisions way too often.

[PAINTERDAVE]

And if this is true...
then McD is not doing what is best for the team, or Tebow...
just what serves himself.

Hard to fathom that one...

but it could very well be what is going on.

[Lancane]

And if this is true...
then McD is not doing what is best for the team, or Tebow...
just what serves himself.

Hard to fathom that one...

but it could very well be what is going on.

McDaniels never thought about what was best for this team and only himself, and that should be evident in his actions. It was reported after the 2005 season that Bowlen had concern with the direction of the team, and he mentioned quarterback as a part of that. Most people overlooked that because of Plummer's stats that season, so what did they do? They drafted Jay Cutler. In one of their best drafts the team finally began to build a younger talented team. Two seasons and Cutler was proving to be worth the pick, but the team was still stale, defense had remained an issue. So Bowlen fired Shanahan, believing that a young head coach would bring a new philosophy and freshness to this team...he stated that the team would be built around Cutler?

He hired McDaniels because of his praise of Jay and what he planned to do, his philosophy and the kid even had made Joe Ellis fall in love with him. But what did he do? He initiated a trade that went against what Bowlen wanted, leaving Bowlen in a bind to either fire him or accept what he did and hope something came out of it! Trading Cutler was smart because it bought him time from demolishing the chemistry of the team...it would give him some time to say, hey...we'll get better but, not this year. Which is why I think he drafted Moreno over a quarterback. Things did not go so well, fans were agitated because of what he did...so he goes and gets Quinn and then drafts Tebow, but why? Especially if he had faith in Orton as he so claimed? He was giving what he took away, he trades Marshall so then he drafts Thomas who could take another year or two to develop, the same with Tebow. But why?

I believe that though it was him trying to prove he is better then he really is at building a team, it was also a form of job security. Why bitch and moan, trade away good talent so it lessened a need to rebuild an area of the team when the other side of the ball needed so much help? If he would have kept the offense intact and used the past two off-season to repair the defense we would likely be winning the division outright. That's what a smart sensible coach would have done...

Personally I don't think this idiot cares about any of his players, he just believes in himself, his family and his over inflated ego...or that is my opinion at least.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

McDaniels never thought about what was best for this team and only himself, and that should be evident in his actions. It was reported after the 2005 season that Bowlen had concern with the direction of the team, and he mentioned quarterback as a part of that. Most people overlooked that because of Plummer's stats that season, so what did they do? They drafted Jay Cutler. In one of their best drafts the team finally began to build a younger talented team. Two seasons and Cutler was proving to be worth the pick, but the team was still stale, defense had remained an issue. So Bowlen fired Shanahan, believing that a young head coach would bring a new philosophy and freshness to this team...he stated that the team would be built around Cutler?

He hired McDaniels because of his praise of Jay and what he planned to do, his philosophy and the kid even had made Joe Ellis fall in love with him. But what did he do? He initiated a trade that went against what Bowlen wanted, leaving Bowlen in a bind to either fire him or accept what he did and hope something came out of it! Trading Cutler was smart because it bought him time from demolishing the chemistry of the team...it would give him some time to say, hey...we'll get better but, not this year. Which is why I think he drafted Moreno over a quarterback. Things did not go so well, fans were agitated because of what he did...so he goes and gets Quinn and then drafts Tebow, but why? Especially if he had faith in Orton as he so claimed? He was giving what he took away, he trades Marshall so then he drafts Thomas who could take another year or two to develop, the same with Tebow. But why?

I believe that though it was him trying to prove he is better then he really is at building a team, it was also a form of job security. Why bitch and moan, trade away good talent so it lessened a need to rebuild an area of the team when the other side of the ball needed so much help? If he would have kept the offense intact and used the past two off-season to repair the defense we would likely be winning the division outright. That's what a smart sensible coach would have done...

Personally I don't think this idiot cares about any of his players, he just believes in himself, his family and his over inflated ego...or that is my opinion at least.

Excellent breakdown. Yep, I pretty much agree with everything you've said here, Lancane.

[Slick]

Agreed Orton is still just a game manager that can not carry team. Orton is on pace to throw for over 5,000 yard that's great, however for all those yards he's only pace to throw 24 touchdown passes.

My comment wasn't meant as a slam at Orton. He's played far better than I thought he would.

...but you're right. 5,000 yards isn't helping. I'd rather have Orton the game manager, when he actually won games, as opposed to him having 50 attempts a game.

[Lonestar]

My comment wasn't meant as a slam at Orton. He's played far better than I thought he would.

...but you're right. 5,000 yards isn't helping. I'd rather have Orton the game manager, when he actually won games, as opposed to him having 50 attempts a game.

Just want to make sure I understand this.

Last year when we were throwing short almost everyone ragged about him having a noodle arm. Because they taking what the defense gave them.
IIRC boring was one of the terms used.

This year we are throwing more deep balls with about the same completion average (very good) and it is a bad thing

Anyone really want to explain this?
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[TXBRONC]

My comment wasn't meant as a slam at Orton. He's played far better than I thought he would.

...but you're right. 5,000 yards isn't helping. I'd rather have Orton the game manager, when he actually won games, as opposed to him having 50 attempts a game.

I didn't think you were slamming Orton nor is that what my intent was.

I was simply pointing out that for those passing yards is only giving us the same amount of production in points. Imho that seems out of alignment for the passing yards he' putting up.
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[Slick]

Just want to make sure I understand this.

Last year when we were throwing short almost everyone ragged about him having a noodle arm. Because they taking what the defense gave them.
IIRC boring was one of the terms used.

This year we are throwing more deep balls with about the same completion average (very good) and it is a bad thing

Anyone really want to explain this?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

For me it's not about throwing short or long JR. It's about him throwing way too much...us not being able to run the ball at all.

The more I see of this offense, the more I don't like it.

I'm not laying any of the blame on Kyle. I'm sure he's doing what he's told.

If I could find something positive to say, I would. I'm not sure why you're so sure we're headed in the right direction. I just don't feel that way.

[Oldschoolcrush]

Just want to make sure I understand this.

Last year when we were throwing short almost everyone ragged about him having a noodle arm. Because they taking what the defense gave them.
IIRC boring was one of the terms used.

This year we are throwing more deep balls with about the same completion average (very good) and it is a bad thing

Anyone really want to explain this?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I think when you view the bigger picture it all makes sense and is no more appealing.
Balance is missing!
Everyone loves to see the deep ball!
Guess what, when you don't have a running game and you reign in all your WR's to support that lack in offense, you also bring defenders in along with them. This in result also opens up holes in the secondary when you do test it......... This believe it or not is actually ideal for the defense! If they give up a 25+ yd gain in a single strike but stop the 3rd down conversion on the next set... Who cares? Bend don't break!
You are going to get the deep ball, but you will not sustain a drive!
We're talking about a lower percentage completion rate. We are seeing the deep ball but not seeing any production on the scoreboard. We also have to take into account how many possessions in a game.
The amount of times the offense takes a chunk but does nothing and has zero clock management. Now the defense is back on the field! Even if the defense does the job in a 3 n out, guess what? They'll be right back on the field in no time to do it again. The offense the Broncos have right now is demoralizing their own defense.... Hint, they would demoralize any defense available in the game right now if it were theirs!
When you have an offense that actually produces, you open numerous options for your defense.
The Bronco defense can't attack the line right now, they can't blitz the quarterback.... It's always a risk when you do so, you could get beat with the deep strike! The defense can't afford to give up chunks of field because the offense is losing the scoreboard as well as the field position battle given multiple opportunity. What is the result? The defense is managing by sitting somewhere in the middle and getting smashed in the mouth....
Does the defense have the talent to attack the line or the quarterback right now? Did it before the injuries?
The Broncos can't afford that risk to let them get a taste of blood, the only blood they have tasted is their own......... Why do you think the Broncos are plagued with injury in the first place?