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Tned
11-02-2010, 03:04 AM
Ok, each year or so this type of poll pops up, but this year we didn't haveone before the season. So, I figured better late than never.

As a fan of the team, is this season most important, or is the future most important? Meaning, do you want to see the most wins possible each season, even if it isn't enough wins to get to the playoffs and we pick middle of the pack? Or, if we aren't going to be playoff bound, would you rather see a 1-4 win season that gives a top five pick the following year to rebuild with?

So, assuming we could re-wind to the start of the season, would you rather have a 7-9 win season this year, and be competitive, but not quite a playoff contender or would you rather have 2 or 3 wins?

Jake Klug
11-02-2010, 03:10 AM
The future is more important. And along those lines, its more important to get rid of the COO and the head coach.

BroncoBJ
11-02-2010, 03:10 AM
I'd rather win. But with that said I'm sick of going 7-9 or 8-8 every year and drafting in the middle of the pack. But I never root for us to lose and never will. We could be 2-13 and I'd root for us to win week 17. Just not in my nature to root for us to lose. So I'm going to continue to root for us to win and I'll worry about the draft when the season is over. :fight:

I like the draft and college but thats not what I care about right now. You could have a great player with a top 5 pick, a pick in the teens, a pick in the 20's, or a 7th round pick. Theres talent all over. We don't need a top 5 pick to become contenders.

This season and the future is both important to me. I wanna win now and in the future :lol: But maybe a horrible season is what we need to get regrouped, get a good pick and good draft and be ready to roll for a while.

All just my opinion though. :salute:

sneakers
11-02-2010, 04:37 AM
This thread again?!? Did Lex hijack Tned's account?

TXBRONC
11-02-2010, 05:06 AM
I would rather Denver get as many wins as they could. If we end up with a top 5 pick it means that their are all more problems on this team than one pick can fix.

TimTebow15MVP
11-02-2010, 05:09 AM
miss me with that 7-9 shit and having average picks waiting and hoping that the premier talent falls in your lap. this year we will be in a position to get the best talent in the top ends of the drafts. give me this one bad year so we can get some more building blocks. i want the top 5 pick.

dump bailey for a 2nd,

dump orton for a 2nd to minnesota.

thats 1 1st round pick in the top 5, 4 2nds round picks and a 3rd.

thats my dream scenerio right there........ theres no question orton and bailey both will be traded. brady quinn will be tebows back up.

TimTebow15MVP
11-02-2010, 05:12 AM
I would rather Denver get as many wins as they could. If we end up with a top 5 pick it means that their are all more problems on this team than one pick can fix.

yeah problems like your two best defensice players are gone,

your three best OLinemen are playing hurt or still hurt, the other two are rookies......

the broncos are not that bad. the record will be but there not that bad. the buccs rams were THAT bad but look at them a year later. winning games. why? came across some awesome talent in that top 5. mccoy has turned that DL around in tampa. bradford changed the rams in just one year. one great rookie, that great addition you can add picking that high can turn a team around asap.

Elevation inc
11-02-2010, 08:11 AM
well that top 5 pick could turn into a gold mine for trade back compensation, its not unlikely the Qb class could be tempting to many teams to move up....but at the same time we have made some very bad calls on draft picks the last 2 years......

BigDaddyBronco
11-02-2010, 08:14 AM
7-9 would mean that we win 5 of 8 ending the season. If they were a result of things coming together like the run game improving or the defense solidifying I would take it. Especially, if those 5 wins were all against the AFC West. :D

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:08 AM
I woulld rather see progress and see this team go 9-7 or better than the .500 they have been. Those are the expectations set by the team.

At this point in the season, I would rather go for the draft pick SO LONG as McD is no where near the pick when its time to make the selection.

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:13 AM
miss me with that 7-9 shit and having average picks waiting and hoping that the premier talent falls in your lap.

Kind of silly. Haloti Ngata was a #12 pick coincidentally the same #12 spot we took Moreno and Clady and one spot below Cutler.

There is plenty of top end talent to be had at .500.

Orakpo and Maualuga are fine references. I could go on and on.

Finally, what good is a high draft pick if the guy who is in control of the draft has failed for 2 years running?

BigDaddyBronco
11-02-2010, 09:16 AM
Kind of silly. Haloti Ngata was a #12 pick coincidentally the same #12 spot we took Moreno and Clady and one spot below Cutler.

There is plenty of top end talent to be had at .500.

Orakpo and Maualuga are fine references. I could go on and on.

Finally, what good is a high draft pick if the guy who is in control of the draft has failed for 2 years running?
How can you say he has failed? Did you expect all these draft picks to become stars right out of the gate? I agree that the move up for Ponze sucked and the move up for Quinn sucked. I would have prefferred he hedged his bet by taking Ayers and Orakpo instead of Moreno, but it's pretty early to declare his drafts busts.

Traveler
11-02-2010, 09:20 AM
Finally, what good is a high draft pick if the guy who is in control of the draft has failed for 2 years running?

What? The return on the 09 draft remains a cause for concern. Too early to tell with this years picks.

UnderArmour
11-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Kind of silly. Haloti Ngata was a #12 pick coincidentally the same #12 spot we took Moreno and Clady and one spot below Cutler.

There is plenty of top end talent to be had at .500.

Orakpo and Maualuga are fine references. I could go on and on.

Finally, what good is a high draft pick if the guy who is in control of the draft has failed for 2 years running?

I liked our maneuvering this year with DT+Tebow+Decker+Cox+Walton and the jury is still out on Robert Ayers, McBath, and Moreno. Quinn was a bust and Alphonso Smith was a waste, but other than that not sure how bad we're doing. I think the whole draft failure thing gets overblown because it takes 2 or 3 years to develop players. DeAngelo Williams sucked his first 2 years and is going to get a massive payday next offseason if he hits the market(pending the CBA). IMO, we just need to draft some talent on the lines and we can be fine. Losing Ayers and Dumervil has made winning very difficult for us and the only reason our defense has even been holding up as much as it has is because DJ Williams has been playing lights out.

Our roster isn't really in that horrible of a shape. The main issue is the loss of key players at key positions and the complete ineptitude of the McDaniels "power" running scheme. We were doing a hell load better last year running the football than this year. Even Buckhalter was having 100 yard games. IMO, needs to go back to a more zone oriented run scheme. Houston is having success with Arian Foster using OUR scheme. McDaniels needs to cut out the stubbornness and enable the Broncos to win with regards to schemes.

BigDaddyBronco
11-02-2010, 09:28 AM
What? The return on the 09 draft remains a cause for concern. Too early to tell with this years picks.
Even the 09 draft wasn't a complete bust. Moreno is decent (not worth the #12 pick overall, but I digress), Ayers looks like he can be really good, McBath, if he could stay healthy, looks like a solid player, and Bruton is good depth and a good ST player. Not happy with Phonz, Quinn, and Olsen (the jury is still out on him). They missed on Phonz and made it worse by giving up the farm for him. Same with Quinn. The rest of the guys and the low round guys are pretty typical of most teams drafts.

It is nice that the top 2 picks are playing for the team and starting if healthy. That was pretty hit or miss during the Shanny years.

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:42 AM
How can you say he has failed? Did you expect all these draft picks to become stars right out of the gate? I agree that the move up for Ponze sucked and the move up for Quinn sucked. I would have prefferred he hedged his bet by taking Ayers and Orakpo instead of Moreno, but it's pretty early to declare his drafts busts.

I didn't declare them busts. I said he failed and there is a big difference.

He came in here with the benefit of hindsight with regard to Hillis. Yet he chose to take a RB at #12 despite having the #2 offense (yards I know). It is hard to argue this team needed a RB at #12. The Ayers pick even at 18 is questionable with guys like Orakpo and Maualuga and Zigi Hood on the board at some point for our 2 picks. Clay Matthews went at #26.

It was no secret we needed help on D.

We have a project QB who has 3-4 picks wrapped up in him that gives us zero production on the field aside from a 'ridiculous goal line play' here or there.

We have 2 picks in Alphonso that we will never get production from all while Earl Thomas looks pretty darn good in Seattle. Thats in the top rounds.

We have how many picks tied up in Quinn and he has been inactive for how many weeks? Schlueter has done what? Olsen has done what? That is from 2009 only!

Traveler
11-02-2010, 09:46 AM
I've never been one to root for this team to lose. As badly as they are playing lately, I just don't see them turning it around.

I'll go back to my views that we are rebuilding. We are currently experiencing the first year growing pains a year late. Meaning what were going through now is what should have happened last year. We're just taking our lumps a year late.

My reasoning is that McDaniels tried to have it both ways. He tried to win now by bringing in experienced veterans while also drafting youth behind them. Commendable, but it delayed the total tear down and rebuild that was sorely needed.

To bring this team rebuilding reasoning back to the intent of the thread, my guess is the team will continue it's losing ways with the younger players continuing their on-the-job training. Which in turn will provide us access to some of the more elite talent in the upcoming draft.

If there's one thing everyone here can agree on, it's that we need more elite talent on this team at several key positions, defense in particular.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when McDaniels was hired, he mentioned he'd never been part of a losing team. If that's the case, I not confident he knows what to do to right this ship. Also not sure if there's anyone on the coaching staff that can help either. Hence, the possibility that we could realistically be choosing in the top five of next years draft.

The staff inexperience must also be addressed this offseason, but that is a topic for another thread.

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:51 AM
I liked our maneuvering this year with DT+Tebow+Decker+Cox+Walton and the jury is still out on Robert Ayers, McBath, and Moreno. Quinn was a bust and Alphonso Smith was a waste, but other than that not sure how bad we're doing. I think the whole draft failure thing gets overblown because it takes 2 or 3 years to develop players. DeAngelo Williams sucked his first 2 years and is going to get a massive payday next offseason if he hits the market(pending the CBA). IMO, we just need to draft some talent on the lines and we can be fine. Losing Ayers and Dumervil has made winning very difficult for us and the only reason our defense has even been holding up as much as it has is because DJ Williams has been playing lights out.



Even the 09 draft wasn't a complete bust. Moreno is decent (not worth the #12 pick overall, but I digress), Ayers looks like he can be really good, McBath, if he could stay healthy, looks like a solid player, and Bruton is good depth and a good ST player. Not happy with Phonz, Quinn, and Olsen (the jury is still out on him). They missed on Phonz and made it worse by giving up the farm for him. Same with Quinn. The rest of the guys and the low round guys are pretty typical of most teams drafts.


The problem is our drafts at the top end are too O oriented. Shanahan built the D via FA and it was always patchwork and older. Now we get to hear about injuries as if they are a legitimate excuse. They aren't. The emphasis should have been on the D. We lack depth there and are truly years behind.

Dawk looks terrible. Champ is showing his age or is playing uninspired based on the contract situation. Jamal is a joke if not a rent a player for a year. Bannan isn't anything to write home about. Haggans and Hunter would be a #2 LB almost anywhere else. I personally don't care much for DJ but he is a player.

I think Cox will be a stud DB. Syd could be good too. McBath and Bruton can't prove they can be healthy!

I just don't see how our roster isn't going to be a major problem going forward.

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:54 AM
I've never been one to root for this team to lose. As badly as they are playing lately, I just don't see them turning it around.

I'll go back to my views that we are rebuilding. We are currently experiencing the first year growing pains a year late. Meaning what were going through now is what should have happened last year. We're just taking our lumps a year late.

My reasoning is that McDaniels tried to have it both ways. He tried to win now by bringing in experienced veterans while also drafting youth behind them. Commendable, but it delayed the total tear down and rebuild that was sorely needed.

To bring this team rebuilding reasoning back to the intent of the thread, my guess is the team will continue it's losing ways with the younger players continuing their on-the-job training. Which in turn will provide us access to some of the more elite talent in the upcoming draft.

If there's one thing everyone here can agree on, it's that we need more elite talent on this team at several key positions, defense in particular.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when McDaniels was hired, he mentioned he'd never been part of a losing team. If that's the case, I not confident he knows what to do to right this ship. Also not sure if there's anyone on the coaching staff that can help either. Hence, the possibility that we could realistically be choosing in the top five of next years draft.

The staff inexperience must also be addressed this offseason, but that is a topic for another thread.

I agree with most everything you said. I guess I just don't buy the rebuilding theory when nobody at Dove Valley will mention as much. McDaniels from the day he walked in said part of the appeal of the job was that rebuilding wasn't needed.

More importantly it is hard to buy rebuilding when this team is giving away picks for players that in all likelihood are only going to be here for one year i.e. Maroney.

Traveler
11-02-2010, 10:14 AM
I agree with most everything you said. I guess I just don't buy the rebuilding theory when nobody at Dove Valley will mention as much. McDaniels from the day he walked in said part of the appeal of the job was that rebuilding wasn't needed.

More importantly it is hard to buy rebuilding when this team is giving away picks for players that in all likelihood are only going to be here for one year i.e. Maroney.

I hear what you are saying, but when has a new regime come in and announced that the organization needs to completely be torn down? It would scare the hell out of the fan base.

The proof lies in their actions. McDaniels & company jettisoned 30-35 players in one offeseason. That's not rebuilding?

As to your reference to Maroney, I think he will be here for a couple more years, but you never know with this FO.;)

MasterShake
11-02-2010, 10:31 AM
I hear what you are saying, but when has a new regime come in and announced that the organization needs to completely be torn down? It would scare the hell out of the fan base.

The proof lies in their actions. McDaniels & company jettisoned 30-35 players in one offeseason. That's not rebuilding?

As to your reference to Maroney, I think he will be here for a couple more years, but you never know with this FO.;)

I know I would freak out with another overhaul. As much as I wanted to lie to myself, we have been rebuilding since before Shanny got fired. We have not been a good team in a long time, but we were always able to compensate with an average defense and great running game for a while. I'm fed up with a lot of things this team has done, but I don't think I can judge it as a failure or success until after next season unfortunately. And as fed up as I feel with McD sometimes, I would love to see what he could do with Tebow and a healthy defense. Ayers and Doom lined up together just gives me happy thoughts.

I still think we are an ok team, but obvisously still very young and not able to overcome our own mistakes. If we win a majority of our games in the second half of the season, I'll be a happy camper.

Foochacho
11-02-2010, 10:59 AM
A couple years ago I answered a poll like this about making the playoffs or losing out and getting a better pick. I said the playoffs because even though we weren't going to go anywhere it is nice to always have a chance. But this year I don't see how we have any shot at the playoffs, so I personally want a good pick.

I came to the realization that this year is lost after the Raider game. And I can accept more losses if it means drafting a stud. It would be nice to get some good Dline talent in the top 5.

blamkin86
11-02-2010, 11:07 AM
Grass seems greener on the other side, huh? No guarantees with a top 5 pick.

Lonestar
11-02-2010, 11:24 AM
....but at the same time we have made some very bad calls on draft picks the last 2 years......

Not sure which picks meaning more than one you are refering to.

For me if I knew we could get a Suh or Mccoy type player for NT. I do not care what the W-L is for the year.

Knowing about all the kids that are coming back next year, makes me feel much better.

I know some are win only folks and God Bless them but I'm a firm believer that every so often. Yiou have to bite the bullet. From ATL
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rcsodak
11-02-2010, 11:33 AM
Ok, each year or so this type of poll pops up, but this year we didn't haveone before the season. So, I figured better late than never.

As a fan of the team, is this season most important, or is the future most important? Meaning, do you want to see the most wins possible each season, even if it isn't enough wins to get to the playoffs and we pick middle of the pack? Or, if we aren't going to be playoff bound, would you rather see a 1-4 win season that gives a top five pick the following year to rebuild with?

So, assuming we could re-wind to the start of the season, would you rather have a 7-9 win season this year, and be competitive, but not quite a playoff contender or would you rather have 2 or 3 wins?
I was trying to go here in my thread yesterday but you cant do a poll in this mobile software. :-(
I voted future. Personally, I've had enuf of the mediocrity the last dozen years. Its time to re-stock with studs. Hopefully the FO make the most of it.
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jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 11:38 AM
I hear what you are saying, but when has a new regime come in and announced that the organization needs to completely be torn down? It would scare the hell out of the fan base.

The proof lies in their actions. McDaniels & company jettisoned 30-35 players in one offeseason. That's not rebuilding?

I guess it is rebuilding if you want to see it as such. I just don't see it as rebuilding when we are throwing away picks and the opportunity to have youth in favor of bringing in vets and FA's. IMHO you rebuild through youth and place a premium on draft picks.

For me, if we were rebuilding we wouldn't be fielding a D that has 9 of 11 starters well over 30+ in age.

That's why I don't fault McD for the O line because he is playing youth there. I wouldn't fault him if he did it at every position possible. I would be less critical of Moreno and McD if he would give him 25 carries in a game to see what the kid is made of.

I guess to me shuffling the roster for vets says he is trying to win now but I respect that you see it differently.



As to your reference to Maroney, I think he will be here for a couple more years, but you never know with this FO.;)

I guess I could see him staying and Buck being gone. But if he isn't that would be a terrible wate of a 4th!

MasterShake
11-02-2010, 11:47 AM
That's why I don't fault McD for the O line because he is playing youth there. I wouldn't fault him if he did it at every position possible. I would be less critical of Moreno and McD if he would give him 25 carries in a game to see what the kid is made of.


I feel the same way, but it seems like we have a penalty on almost every first down (holding, false start, etc.) that puts us in a hole where we have to pass. If we can somehow get in a game where we go up 2 or 3 scores, I think we can see some flashes from Moreno.

Of all of our players, there is something about Moreno that tells me if he had a good line he could be a helluva player.

Northman
11-02-2010, 11:54 AM
I've never been one to root for this team to lose. As badly as they are playing lately, I just don't see them turning it around.

I'll go back to my views that we are rebuilding. We are currently experiencing the first year growing pains a year late. Meaning what were going through now is what should have happened last year. We're just taking our lumps a year late.

My reasoning is that McDaniels tried to have it both ways. He tried to win now by bringing in experienced veterans while also drafting youth behind them. Commendable, but it delayed the total tear down and rebuild that was sorely needed.

To bring this team rebuilding reasoning back to the intent of the thread, my guess is the team will continue it's losing ways with the younger players continuing their on-the-job training. Which in turn will provide us access to some of the more elite talent in the upcoming draft.

If there's one thing everyone here can agree on, it's that we need more elite talent on this team at several key positions, defense in particular.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when McDaniels was hired, he mentioned he'd never been part of a losing team. If that's the case, I not confident he knows what to do to right this ship. Also not sure if there's anyone on the coaching staff that can help either. Hence, the possibility that we could realistically be choosing in the top five of next years draft.

The staff inexperience must also be addressed this offseason, but that is a topic for another thread.


Exactly how i feel.

LordTrychon
11-02-2010, 11:58 AM
I'll take wins please.

Assume that you have no concerns about our drafting. We'll call it neutral.

Even with a top 5 pick, you could still miss out on what you wanted (bust, not available, can't trade down) and you're taking a much higher risk monetarily.

With a middle of the pack pick... you can still do well, and you're not on the hook for as much.

I'm sick of telling people we're not as bad as they think... and then the team proving me wrong.

I'll take wins now, please.

eessydo
11-02-2010, 12:02 PM
Why a top 5 pick?? Who knows what McClowniels will do with that, but I can guarantee it won't be anything good.

Drafting has been the utmost failure of the McDaniels era.

Need I remind you he traded away a future first round pick to get into the second round and draft Alphonso Smith only to trade him way to Detroit for a previous 7th round pick TE, that only played in two games the previous year making one reception for 4 yards.

A first round pick he could have used to pick Tebow (another failure in my opinion) if he wanted. Not even sure why he did that when Orton is clearly a better QB than Tebow now and forever. Instead the farm was traded after he made some decent moves to acquire draft picks pre-draft. Hard work, pissed away, because he is arrogant and incompetent.

And this is why I think the paper bag is about to come on my face.

BTW, no GM in his right mind would trade a 2nd rounder for Champ Baily. He is old as dirt and plagued with injuries. No value there.

He was an arrogant SOB coming in, and teams finally figured out what he was doing and stopped him cold to end the season 2-8. Just continuing on that path this year, and finally has seemed to have the piss and vinegar knocked out of him.

NFL (Not For Long).

Time we all wake up and realize that Bill Billichek is the genius of the New England Patriots, NOT his coordinators.

Six of Belichick's assistant coaches have become NFL head coaches:

Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns (2005–2008)
Al Groh, New York Jets (2000)
Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos (2009–present)
Eric Mangini, New York Jets (2006–2008), Cleveland Browns (2009–present)
Nick Saban, Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions (2009–present) (really made his name as a Giant's Assistant)

Five assistant coaches have become NCAA Division I head coaches:

Kirk Ferentz, Iowa (1999–present)
Ferentz's son Brian Ferentz, who played for his father at Iowa from 2001–2005, joined the Patriots scouting department in 2008 and later their coaching staff in 2009
Al Groh, Wake Forest (1981–1986), Virginia (2001–2009)
Pat Hill, Fresno State (1997–present)
Nick Saban, Michigan State (1995–1999), LSU (2000–2004), Alabama (2007–present)
Josh McDaniels was a graduate assistant under Saban in 1999 before joining the Patriots
Charlie Weis, Notre Dame (2005–2009)
Two graduate assistants for Weis at Notre Dame, Shane Waldron and Patrick Graham, are now assistant coaches for Belichick

Northman
11-02-2010, 12:04 PM
Unfortuantely, this is a loaded question.

Because im constantly told on here that we are rebuilding. If we are rebuilding than wins dont come often and if thats the case then playing the young guys and having a down year is expected.

If we are 7-9 to 8-8 team we are middle of the pack and able to compete for the division and playoff run. The problem is people cant decide where the team should be. Either we are rebuilding or we are not.

MasterShake
11-02-2010, 12:12 PM
Unfortuantely, this is a loaded question.

Because im constantly told on here that we are rebuilding. If we are rebuilding than wins dont come often and if thats the case then playing the young guys and having a down year is expected.

If we are 7-9 to 8-8 team we are middle of the pack and able to compete for the division and playoff run. The problem is people cant decide where the team should be. Either we are rebuilding or we are not.

I think we are a middle of the pack to slightly above average team if we had all of our starters healthy, but without them we have no depth so that tells me we are rebuilding. Doom and Ayers out, Clady maybe 80%, etc. is not a good gauge of our team. I think competitive good teams have depth (like the Steelers) and good to average teams that are rebuilding (like us) lack it.

Traveler
11-02-2010, 12:18 PM
I guess it is rebuilding if you want to see it as such. I just don't see it as rebuilding when we are throwing away picks and the opportunity to have youth in favor of bringing in vets and FA's. IMHO you rebuild through youth and place a premium on draft picks.

No arguement here.


For me, if we were rebuilding we wouldn't be fielding a D that has 9 of 11 starters well over 30+ in age.

This where I believe he mistakenly thought he could try to win now and build for the future. It's one or the other IMO.


I guess to me shuffling the roster for vets says he is trying to win now but I respect that you see it differently.

I respect your take too.

rcsodak
11-02-2010, 12:19 PM
well that top 5 pick could turn into a gold mine for trade back compensation, its not unlikely the Qb class could be tempting to many teams to move up....but at the same time we have made some very bad calls on draft picks the last 2 years......
ALL teams make bad picks. If it were 100% then everybody would be 0-0-16. :D
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Traveler
11-02-2010, 12:22 PM
Wonder how different this poll would be if those participating could be identified?

MasterShake
11-02-2010, 12:26 PM
Wonder how different this poll would be if those participating could be identified.

Well, the Milkshake with the Unicorn didn't vote, but I think the Star Wars Character voted for Wins.

Northman
11-02-2010, 12:32 PM
I think we are a middle of the pack to slightly above average team if we had all of our starters healthy, but without them we have no depth so that tells me we are rebuilding. Doom and Ayers out, Clady maybe 80%, etc. is not a good gauge of our team. I think competitive good teams have depth (like the Steelers) and good to average teams that are rebuilding (like us) lack it.

We've had games where Ayers and company were there this year (Doom excluded of course) and we still werent getting it done defensively. We have taken a step back on all sides of the ball from last year. So it has much more to do than just lack of depth. We might be a tad bit better than Detroit and St. Louis but even that would be a stretch as i dont think we could beat them even with a full roster. Never the less, if you agree we are rebuilding than isnt it more important to get the kids experience as opposed to worrying about wins and losses? Especially at this point in the season. I could see staying with the current roster if we were 6-2 but thats just not the case here.

MasterShake
11-02-2010, 12:34 PM
We've had games where Ayers and company were there this year (Doom excluded of course) and we still werent getting it done defensively. We have taken a step back on all sides of the ball from last year. So it has much more to do than just lack of depth. We might be a tad bit better than Detroit and St. Louis but even that would be a stretch as i dont think we could beat them even with a full roster. Never the less, if you agree we are rebuilding than isnt it more important to get the kids experience as opposed to worrying about wins and losses? Especially at this point in the season. I could see staying with the current roster if we were 6-2 but thats just not the case here.

I'm on the fence at this point. I'd say the trigger for me to play the young guys is 9 losses when we are truly at a losing season. I think Orton and Co. need a few more chances to get some respectable games under their belts, too.

Traveler
11-02-2010, 12:38 PM
We've had games where Ayers and company were there this year (Doom excluded of course) and we still werent getting it done defensively. We have taken a step back on all sides of the ball from last year. So it has much more to do than just lack of depth. We might be a tad bit better than Detroit and St. Louis but even that would be a stretch as i dont think we could beat them even with a full roster. Never the less, if you agree we are rebuilding than isnt it more important to get the kids experience as opposed to worrying about wins and losses? Especially at this point in the season. I could see staying with the current roster if we were 6-2 but thats just not the case here.

I say if/when we hit eight losses, then all the rookies and second year players should begin to receive significant playing time.

BroncoBJ
11-02-2010, 12:41 PM
Wonder how different this poll would be if those participating could be identified?

I just now realized the poll. Damn, I hate the options though. Wheres the " win 8 straight games and make the playoffs at 10-6" option? :lol:

Though thats about unrealistic as it gets. I am tired of mediocrty but I sure don't want to win 2 or 3 games this season. I'll still take the wins. I'd rather be upset 8 or 9 times this year then 13 or 14 times and then sit at the top of the draft board in April.

Dzone
11-02-2010, 12:46 PM
I would love to have the high pick, but it sucks to be hoping for your team to lose games in order to get a high pick...so I voted for 7-9...plus, a high draft pick has no guarantee against it being a bust...that T. Jackson DE the Chiefs picked in round 1 a couple years back is as big a bust as jarvis moss

Dzone
11-02-2010, 12:49 PM
So Mcd isnt the only one to draft bad. KC wasted a #3 overall on Tyson Jackson and the guy is no good. Only diff is that KC drafted bad but is winning, we arent..

"Chiefs coach Todd Haley said Friday afternoon that defensive end Tyson Jackson was held out of last Sunday’s game at Houston for reasons other than health, in effect indicating that Jackson’s practice performances weren’t impressive enough to warrant a spot on the team’s 45-man gameday roster.

Jackson, last year’s No. 3 overall draft pick, injured his knee during the regular-season opener against San Diego, and he hasn’t played since, although he returned to practice as a full participant two weeks ago. He was cleared from the injury report this week, but defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel said that if Jackson dresses for Sunday’s game, the Chiefs won’t use him full-time."

slim
11-02-2010, 12:50 PM
If draft picks were sure things, then I would go with that option. But, as we all know, draft picks are a crap shoot.

I will take a few wins.

Dzone
11-02-2010, 12:54 PM
If the season goes in the tank,I wouldnt be opposed to letting Quinn start. If he plays good, then we can unload orton for a pick and keep quinn as tebows backup

Day1BroncoFan
11-02-2010, 12:56 PM
I'd rather see a competative team regardless of wins.

Show me progress, not embarrasing loses scattered among stupid mistakes causing near misses.

BORDERLINE
11-02-2010, 01:40 PM
No Way...you play to win the game. I'll take 7-9 right now in a heartbeat

NorCalBronco7
11-02-2010, 02:06 PM
I very much hate to say it, but I hope the Broncos play competitive the rest of the year but lose the rest of their games by 1 point (except to oakland!).

The best chance the Broncos have at improving is through the draft and with a higher pick the Broncos will most likely get a better players. A top 5-10 pick next year gives the Broncos a better chance at landing a dominate rookie.

I really do hate giving up on this years team, but considering the future of the Broncos franchise we're better off if they lose the rest of the year to secure a top pick in the 2011 draft.

Northman
11-02-2010, 02:56 PM
I very much hate to say it, but I hope the Broncos play competitive the rest of the year but lose the rest of their games by 1 point (except to oakland!).



They have yet to lose by 1 point this year so i think you will be disappointed.

rcsodak
11-02-2010, 03:42 PM
They have yet to lose by 1 point this year so i think you will be disappointed.
The losing streak ENDS THIS WEEK! WOOHOOO!
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Northman
11-02-2010, 03:47 PM
The losing streak ENDS THIS WEEK! WOOHOOO!
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We will beat them with our invisible juice.

TXBRONC
11-02-2010, 05:07 PM
We have taken a step back on all sides of the ball from last year. So it has much more to do than just lack of depth. We might be a tad bit better than Detroit and St. Louis but even that would be a stretch as i dont think we could beat them even with a full roster.

It really sucks that you're about us taking a step back and that you might be right on the money about not being able to compete with likes of Detroit and St. Louis. :tsk:

Tned
11-02-2010, 05:42 PM
I know I would freak out with another overhaul. As much as I wanted to lie to myself, we have been rebuilding since before Shanny got fired. We have not been a good team in a long time, but we were always able to compensate with an average defense and great running game for a while. I'm fed up with a lot of things this team has done, but I don't think I can judge it as a failure or success until after next season unfortunately. And as fed up as I feel with McD sometimes, I would love to see what he could do with Tebow and a healthy defense. Ayers and Doom lined up together just gives me happy thoughts.

I still think we are an ok team, but obviously still very young and not able to overcome our own mistakes. If we win a majority of our games in the second half of the season, I'll be a happy camper.

Like him or hate him, think his last ten years were awful or not, Shanahan was one of the few coaches in the NFL that was able to 'rebuild' on the fly. He turned the roster over multiple times without ever having a true down cycle, which EVERY other team in the NFL goes through 8-15 years or so. It's possible that he was on the 'verge' of having one, but based on the fact he turned the roster over multiple times, there was no indication it was imminent.

So, that leaves us with the poll question, is it better to be 'in the running' every year, but some years fall a little short, or be shitty for a couple years in the 'hope' that the high draft picks will pan out and make you dominant.

Tned
11-02-2010, 05:43 PM
I was trying to go here in my thread yesterday but you cant do a poll in this mobile software. :-(
I voted future. Personally, I've had enuf of the mediocrity the last dozen years. Its time to re-stock with studs. Hopefully the FO make the most of it.
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I can make a poll via the mobile site, but you were probably blocked by the bitter clinger blocking software.... ;)

spikerman
11-02-2010, 06:47 PM
I guess it all depends. Does Denver have to let McDaniels and Xanders run the draft? If so, it doesn't matter. The odds are the pick will be wasted anyway.

oubronco
11-02-2010, 07:19 PM
I said top 5 pick because this season is shot to hell already

rcsodak
11-02-2010, 07:53 PM
I can make a poll via the mobile site, but you were probably blocked by the bitter clinger blocking software.... ;)

Most likely the case..... :mad:


I'm reporting this site to....to.....ummm....... n/m. :tsk:


THIS SITE IS ANTI BITTER CLINGER!

I feel much better now

TimTebow15MVP
11-03-2010, 04:22 AM
Kind of silly. Haloti Ngata was a #12 pick coincidentally the same #12 spot we took Moreno and Clady and one spot below Cutler.

There is plenty of top end talent to be had at .500.

Orakpo and Maualuga are fine references. I could go on and on.

Finally, what good is a high draft pick if the guy who is in control of the draft has failed for 2 years running?

last years draft was a good draft. the first year was some silly shit going on but we came away with mcbath, bruton a special teams ace, rob ayers.

sure you can get a orakpo or a clady but we need us a suh, show me a ngta player at 12 this year?

give me peterson a top flight safety in the top 5 or the bama DLinemen in the top 5. give me powe in round 2 the NT....... we dont have to move back to get more awesome talent on the Defense in this draft.

trading ortona nd champ will land us 2 more picks between rounds 2-3 so we will add even more talent.

Dzone
11-03-2010, 08:57 AM
I would hate to see Champ go. He and Dawkins are holding this defense together. I think they are both good for at least one more productive season, maybe more.

Dzone
11-03-2010, 09:14 AM
Just cant cheer for the broncos to lose just to give Mcdaniels a high first round pick that he can squander away...Would much rather just win baby. remember that Tyson Jackson was the 3rd overall by kansas city 2 drafts ago and now he isnt even active for games. He is a total bust, but KC is winning anyway because of good coaching and management

broncofaninfla
11-03-2010, 10:08 AM
I want to win every game every week, the day I start pulling for this team to lose is teh day I stop watching football. With that being said, who wouldn't want a top 5 pick? With Xanders and Mcd I'm concerned they would blow that pick though..

broncofaninfla
11-03-2010, 10:10 AM
I guess it all depends. Does Denver have to let McDaniels and Xanders run the draft? If so, it doesn't matter. The odds are the pick will be wasted anyway.

That or the would trade it to New england for yet another Patriot reject.

rcsodak
11-03-2010, 10:17 AM
I want to win every game every week, the day I start pulling for this team to lose is teh day I stop watching football. With that being said, who wouldn't want a top 5 pick? With Xanders and Mcd I'm concerned they would blow that pick though..

Nobody's asking you to root for them to lose.

TXBRONC
11-03-2010, 10:46 AM
I think we are a middle of the pack to slightly above average team if we had all of our starters healthy, but without them we have no depth so that tells me we are rebuilding. Doom and Ayers out, Clady maybe 80%, etc. is not a good gauge of our team. I think competitive good teams have depth (like the Steelers) and good to average teams that are rebuilding (like us) lack it.

If we are a middle of the road team our record our record sure doesn't reflect it.
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MasterShake
11-03-2010, 11:21 AM
If we are a middle of the road team our record our record sure doesn't reflect it.
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Thats why I used the caveat of "if our starters were healthy". I don't see why we wouldn't be a .500 team easily with a healthy crop of our starters. I never said we were a middle of the road team in our current state. Right now, we are what you scrape off the middle of the road. :lol:

Thats all right, I am going to the game against the Chiefs in a few weeks and I am staying until the end. Only a few glorious months of football left, and I am going to enjoy it.

broncofaninfla
11-03-2010, 01:10 PM
Nobody's asking you to root for them to lose.

At times I almost feel like by supporting Mcd and Xanders I am doing just that, pulling for Denver to lose. I say that because it's going so wrong. A lot of us saw this coming and were called "haters" but here we are now, arguably the worst team in the league with little signs of optimism.

Jake Klug
11-04-2010, 06:08 PM
Like him or hate him, think his last ten years were awful or not, Shanahan was one of the few coaches in the NFL that was able to 'rebuild' on the fly. He turned the roster over multiple times without ever having a true down cycle, which EVERY other team in the NFL goes through 8-15 years or so. It's possible that he was on the 'verge' of having one, but based on the fact he turned the roster over multiple times, there was no indication it was imminent.

So, that leaves us with the poll question, is it better to be 'in the running' every year, but some years fall a little short, or be shitty for a couple years in the 'hope' that the high draft picks will pan out and make you dominant.

Plus add in Goodman drafting. When they traded a 4th for Maroney, the first thing that I thought of was, "Imagine what Goodman could do with that pick."

slim
11-04-2010, 06:11 PM
Much ado about nothing, IMO.

JDL
11-04-2010, 09:44 PM
Top pick isn't necessarily a great thing... better to draft like Pats and Steelers and take great players at sometimes not highly rated positions... This draft isn't looking good for what we need honestly... a lot of high end skill position players when we really badly need a great LB or OL/DL

Canmore
11-05-2010, 05:31 AM
Top pick isn't necessarily a great thing... better to draft like Pats and Steelers and take great players at sometimes not highly rated positions... This draft isn't looking good for what we need honestly... a lot of high end skill position players when we really badly need a great LB or OL/DL

We need DL then OL and that will pretty much covers the draft. Unfortunately I'm afraid McD will still be around so who knows what we will get, but I wouldn't bet it will be good.

TimTebow15MVP
11-05-2010, 05:45 AM
Top pick isn't necessarily a great thing... better to draft like Pats and Steelers and take great players at sometimes not highly rated positions... This draft isn't looking good for what we need honestly... a lot of high end skill position players when we really badly need a great LB or OL/DL

do you even watch college football? this draft is front 7 LOADED with a ton of 3-4 personell. the broncos will land the alabama DE or the lsu safety peterson in the top 5. and still have 2 2nds and a 3rd and we havent even traded orton and champ yet.

Canmore
11-05-2010, 06:16 AM
do you even watch college football? this draft is front 7 LOADED with a ton of 3-4 personell. the broncos will land the alabama DE or the lsu safety peterson in the top 5. and still have 2 2nds and a 3rd and we havent even traded orton and champ yet.

Champ's a free agent. I don't know what you think we are going to get out of that?

TimTebow15MVP
11-05-2010, 02:43 PM
champ will be tagged. the broncos knew they couldnt go into free agency with orton and champ being both free agents. so they extended orton for one year to give themselves the option of taggin bailey and trading him. also keeping orton under contract so thay he doesnt just walk away for free also. go to arizona boards and minnesota boards. bear fans believe orton will end up in minnesota also. fans around the league have seen what orton can do in this league. hes a very very good starter. tebow just will be ELITE.

Ravage!!!
11-05-2010, 03:05 PM
Top pick isn't necessarily a great thing... better to draft like Pats and Steelers and take great players at sometimes not highly rated positions... This draft isn't looking good for what we need honestly... a lot of high end skill position players when we really badly need a great LB or OL/DL

So you mean, acquiring more, lower round picks and then picking in those rounds for starters and depth, is the way to go INSTEAD of using several picks to move back into the first round for a single player, that sits the bench? :confused: Hmmmm... interesting thought

Tned
11-24-2010, 07:20 PM
I said top 5 pick because this season is shot to hell already

If it was shot to hell before, what about now?

chazoe60
11-24-2010, 07:24 PM
7-9 because I hate watching them lose even if there is a positive 5 months from now I would rather have the wins now.

Although, with more wins means more likelihood of McD and his bearded, boring, and slug like henchman staying with the team.

Day1BroncoFan
11-24-2010, 07:39 PM
Right now I'd settle for a few games in a row that don't include embarrassing loses.

broncohead
11-24-2010, 07:45 PM
I don't want to lose but there is no point not to get the younger guys involved. If that means we lose a few cause of it so be it. We aren't making the playoffs