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TimBuff10
11-01-2010, 12:38 AM
I have been a fan of the Broncos since 1983 when I saw my first football game. At no time has the outlook for the Broncos ever been as bad as it is right now! If you are CU football fan, this is where we were last year!

Mc2and6 has us set up for some really bad times and I don't see any way that PB is going to get rid of him. First off, if he were to axe him, he would then have 3 coaches on the payroll and that isnt going to happen. He also isn't going to risk making the change with the uncertainty of next year. The next biggest problem is who on this staff would take over? No one on this staff is close to having a resume that would lead them to a NFL HC job. The one guy that did was Nolan and he left last year.

So we are stuck with McD for at least this year, and most likely next year too. PB knows that he can still sell out Mile High even if Broncos fans speak with their wallets. He can just rely on transplant fans of the other team to buy whatever seats are left over on game day.

So how to fix this? First thing they need to do this off season is hire a real GM and go from there with blowing this team up. After that, they need to get a hot name coach in here to give some credibility back to the organization... Think Gruden or Cowher, then let that GM and new coach build this thing back from the ground up.

Not going to be a fun ride the next couple of years!

Tned
11-01-2010, 03:59 AM
I'm running late, so I just skimmed this, but the 'real GM' thing jumped out at me. When Bowlen fired Shanahan he assured the fans that this time around it would be different with the HC and GM duties being seperate. Most agree that McDaniels appears to have the same total control as Shanahan did. Based on the results to date, that seems to be a bad thing.

Dzone
11-01-2010, 04:17 AM
Cowher knows how to lead his assistant coaches and players. Gruden, same thing. Both would be dynamic personalities in Denver.

Mcdaniels is a good football mind, but he is in over his head as a HC. His personality is dull. He has very little charisma. He even chews his fingernails on the sidelines(btw, Woody Paige mentioned Mcds fingernail chewing in his column)

Me thinks Wade Phillips is going to be fired this week. Will Jones go after Gruden or Cowher? I think he will, knowing Jerrys te4ndency to hire guys with previous HC experience.

TimTebow15MVP
11-01-2010, 06:14 AM
stop crying youll appreciate what having high draft picks can do for your team for one year.

Dean
11-01-2010, 06:32 AM
stop crying youll appreciate what having high draft picks can do for your team for one year.


I see more long rrange effects than one year.

IMO this doesn't look like it will be cleaned up in one year and I don't think that Pat Bowlen will admit that things are FUBAR and fire McD.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-01-2010, 06:38 AM
stop crying youll appreciate what having high draft picks can do for your team for one year.

Really? So, you're excited to see what McDaniels does with a high pick? I'm terrified!

TimBuff10
11-01-2010, 12:59 PM
Really? So, you're excited to see what McDaniels does with a high pick? I'm terrified!

Trade it for a 2nd and declare that guy a 1st round pick!

I just don't see PB willing to get a real GM in here and either Gruden or Cowher, and that is about the only thing that will fix this team in the next few years.

Yeah, he might get lucky with some cheap asst from somewhere else but that is far less likely to happen than going with the known commodity of the Chin or Chucky.

rcsodak
11-01-2010, 01:01 PM
Ya'll need to make up your minds. Either you're for a rebuild or you're not!
What? Want them to turn around and be mediocre again so they get stuck with the mediocre draft pix? I'm ready to put my mind at ease for a DOWN year so they get som truly impact players. And quit already with his 'shit' drafting bs. Last yr's draft wasnt bad.
He addresses the trenches, a stud LB and gets some quality depth, that could easily change the tide.
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SOCALORADO.
11-01-2010, 01:08 PM
Pay for 3 HCs. Its gonna be expensive, but it wont kill PB.
I say wait until the offseason. Dont let MCD have another
opportunity to draft again either. That only will add to the debacle.
He has failed in that respect as well.
A GM and a new HC need to be brought in.
I've said it before here recently, go get Vincent Newsome, from
BALT, to be the GM, and bring in Chucky.

Thnikkaman
11-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Boy Gruden and Cowher have never put together strings of losing seasons:

Gruden:
2003 7 9
2004 5 11
2005 11 5
2006 4 12

Cowher:
1997 11 5
1998 7 9
1999 6 10
2000 9 7

Will everyone please stop with this "We just need a veteran head coach" bull shit?

Dzone
11-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Lets list the best Mcd cliches! His pressers are classic cliches, nothing but cliches...
1."We need to play better as a team"
2. "we have to take it one game at a time"
3. "we have to prepare for the next team on the schedule"
4. "We need to work harder"
5."We need to play with more discipline"
etc etc etc

BigDaddyBronco
11-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Boy Gruden and Cowher have never put together strings of losing seasons:

Gruden:
2003 7 9
2004 5 11
2005 11 5
2006 4 12

Cowher:
1997 11 5
1998 7 9
1999 6 10
2000 9 7

Will everyone please stop with this "We just need a veteran head coach" bull shit?
Those guys are the best since they look tough on the sideline!

slim
11-01-2010, 01:21 PM
Those guys are the best since they look tough on the sideline!

Cowher looks like a fool on the sideline, IMO.

Actually, they both do.

But I think they would both give Tebow a chance, which is important for this franchise.

Jake Klug
11-01-2010, 01:22 PM
Pay for 3 HCs. Its gonna be expensive, but it wont kill PB.
I say wait until the offseason. Dont let MCD have another
opportunity to draft again either. That only will add to the debacle.
He has failed in that respect as well.
A GM and a new HC need to be brought in.
I've said it before here recently, go get Vincent Newsome, from
BALT, to be the GM, and bring in Chucky.

The only thing is, if you bring in a real GM, he's often the guy picking the head coach. So, if you bring in someone like Ozzie, you may get some head coach you dont like or have no clue about.

SOCALORADO.
11-01-2010, 01:46 PM
The only thing is, if you bring in a real GM, he's often the guy picking the head coach. So, if you bring in someone like Ozzie, you may get some head coach you dont like or have no clue about.

Ozzie isnt going anywhere.
Vincent however has already made tough decisions in regards to HCs.
Vince was 1 of the 8 member team that had the final say on hiring Harbaugh in Balt.
And he has had a ton of success making decisions in FA and the draft for the Baltimore Ravens. Just look at the moves by BALT the past few years in FA and the draft.
Hes on a short list of possible GM candidates in a number of cities.
Putting him at GM alone would put alot of DEN fans at ease i think.

slim
11-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Ozzie isnt going anywhere.
Vincent however has already made tough decisions in regards to HCs.
Vince was 1 of the 8 member team that had the final say on hiring Harbaugh in Balt.
And he has had a ton of success making decisions in FA and the draft for the Baltimore Ravens. Just look at the moves by BALT the past few years in FA and the draft.
Hes on a short list of possible GM candidates in a number of cities.
Putting him at GM alone would put alot of DEN fans at ease i think.

How much was Vince and how much was Ozzie? That would be my only question.

But I must admit, of all the names I have heard mentioned in the last few weeks, Vince is the most intriguing to me.

Jake Klug
11-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Ozzie isnt going anywhere.
Vincent however has already made tough decisions in regards to HCs.
Vince was 1 of the 8 member team that had the final say on hiring Harbaugh in Balt.
And he has had a ton of success making decisions in FA and the draft for the Baltimore Ravens. Just look at the moves by BALT the past few years in FA and the draft.
Hes on a short list of possible GM candidates in a number of cities.
Putting him at GM alone would put alot of DEN fans at ease i think.

Im aware that Newsome has been really good at personnel decisions. I wasnt aware that he was part of an 8 person panel though. I kind of assume that a lot of GMs decide on hiring coaches. Maybe Ive been wrong or its different now, though.

SOCALORADO.
11-01-2010, 01:54 PM
How much was Vince and how much was Ozzie? That would be my only question.

But I must admit, of all the names I have heard mentioned in the last few weeks, Vince is the most intriguing to me.

Oh i have no doubt that some of his success has been because of Ozzie, but i think being in BALT that long can only be a huge plus.
I think DEN needs to lay a foundation thats a proven winner, or one that will compete for a title every year. Those guys seem to have that in BALT.

slim
11-01-2010, 01:56 PM
Oh i have no doubt that some of his success has been because of Ozzie, but i think being in BALT that long can only be a huge plus.
I think DEN needs to lay a foundation thats a proven winner, or one that will compete for a title every year. Those guys seem to have that in BALT.

I agree about Ozzie, I think he is one of the best (if not the best) GMs in the league.

UrbanBounca
11-01-2010, 02:10 PM
Boy Gruden and Cowher have never put together strings of losing seasons:

Gruden:
2003 7 9
2004 5 11
2005 11 5
2006 4 12

Cowher:
1997 11 5
1998 7 9
1999 6 10
2000 9 7

Will everyone please stop with this "We just need a veteran head coach" bull shit?

If you're going to post statistics, then quit being biased. Cowher coached for 15 seasons, 12 of which were .500+. Not to mention, a Super Bowl, two AFC championships, and nine division championships.

That said, we'll add 2001-2006 to your statistics.

2001: 13-3
2002: 10-5-1
2003: 6-10
2004: 15-1
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8

That said, I'll welcome Cowher with open arms. However, Gruden is a different story.

Thnikkaman
11-01-2010, 02:16 PM
If you're going to post statistics, then quit being biased. Cowher coached for 15 seasons, 12 of which were .500+. Not to mention, a Super Bowl, two AFC championships, and nine division championships.

That said, we'll add 2001-2006 to your statistics.

2001: 13-3
2002: 10-5-1
2003: 6-10
2004: 15-1
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8

That said, I'll welcome Cowher with open arms. However, Gruden is a different story.

Not being biased at all. I invite you to look in this post from yesterday (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1108412&postcount=23) where I listed their complete career records.

I have admitted that I don't like Cowher, but I would accept him as the Broncos HC. I also don't want a head coach that has won a SB before with another team. No NFL Coach has ever won a SB with two different teams and I don't think Gruden or Cowher will be the first to accomplish this.

All that being said, I am fine with who we have now.

rationalfan
11-01-2010, 02:22 PM
I have been a fan of the Broncos since 1983 when I saw my first football game. At no time has the outlook for the Broncos ever been as bad as it is right now!

really? you sure you've been watching every season since 83? because the 1999 team looked much, much worse than this team. a quick recap: the team's "future" quarterback had a true noodle arm, the team's best franchise running back tore his knee up so badly it ruined his career. several other key players (sharpe included) were injured for portions of the season.the team's recent first round wide receiver had trouble finding the field. the future looked grim.

fans were freaking out everywhere. yet, things got better the next year. much better. i still think the broncos were the second-best team in the league in 2000.

can this current roster pull a similar turnaround? no idea. but things could be worse. at least this year's team can move the ball.

rationalfan
11-01-2010, 02:25 PM
I think DEN needs to lay a foundation thats a proven winner, or one that will compete for a title every year.

uh, is there a broncos fan who would disagree?

topscribe
11-01-2010, 02:27 PM
uh, is there a broncos fan who would disagree?

Maybe the ones who want to put Tebow in right now, apparently at any cost?

-----

rationalfan
11-01-2010, 02:31 PM
i hate stepping into these future coach/gm discussions because they're full of knee-jerk reactions that float around familiar names - when most coaching vacancies are filled by up-and-comers.

but, i'm going to throw this out there regarding cowher: yes, his teams were always competitive, but they weren't champions until dick lebeau joined the staff. currently, the steelers still look super, but cowher's gone. the constant in the steelers' dominant run of the past few years: lebeau. and the quarterback.

i'm not suggesting the broncos go after lebeau (dude's too old to be a head coach and why would he leave pitt for the broncos' roster?), but before you endorse the "novel" idea of cowher consider he might not be the biggest reason for his past team's success.

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 02:37 PM
Ya'll need to make up your minds. Either you're for a rebuild or you're not!
What? Want them to turn around and be mediocre again so they get stuck with the mediocre draft pix? I'm ready to put my mind at ease for a DOWN year so they get som truly impact players. And quit already with his 'shit' drafting bs. Last yr's draft wasnt bad.
He addresses the trenches, a stud LB and gets some quality depth, that could easily change the tide.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Your being way to logical..

most thought reloading all the time was the answer but now we KNOW it just delayed the what should have happened in 2000 or so after most of the HOF players retired.

BroncoWave
11-01-2010, 02:45 PM
Lets list the best Mcd cliches! His pressers are classic cliches, nothing but cliches...
1."We need to play better as a team"
2. "we have to take it one game at a time"
3. "we have to prepare for the next team on the schedule"
4. "We need to work harder"
5."We need to play with more discipline"
etc etc etc

You could watch press conferences of every single coach in the NFL and probably see those exact same quotes. What's your point?

Northman
11-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Boy Gruden and Cowher have never put together strings of losing seasons:

Gruden:
2003 7 9
2004 5 11
2005 11 5
2006 4 12

Cowher:
1997 11 5
1998 7 9
1999 6 10
2000 9 7

Will everyone please stop with this "We just need a veteran head coach" bull shit?


We need a veteran HC. :D

Broncolingus
11-01-2010, 03:09 PM
uh, is there a broncos fan who would disagree?

Probably Clay...

...but I'm just spit-balling there...

:D

Northman
11-01-2010, 03:11 PM
I agree about Ozzie, I think he is one of the best (if not the best) GMs in the league.

Hands down.

TheDave
11-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Bring in marty schottenheimer as VP of Football operations and see what he thinks.

TimBuff10
11-01-2010, 03:55 PM
Boy Gruden and Cowher have never put together strings of losing seasons:

Gruden:
2003 7 9
2004 5 11
2005 11 5
2006 4 12

Cowher:
1997 11 5
1998 7 9
1999 6 10
2000 9 7

Will everyone please stop with this "We just need a veteran head coach" bull shit?

Good job on just including certain years to back your argument. They can't hear you anyway though over the sound of their Super Bowl rings.

Thnikkaman
11-01-2010, 04:30 PM
Good job on just including certain years to back your argument. They can't hear you anyway though over the sound of their Super Bowl rings.

I'm only doing this because you are slow and only read the posts you want to. I included every year of their coaching tenure here:
http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1108412&postcount=23

Yesterday. Thanks for playing.

BigSarge87
11-01-2010, 10:25 PM
Bring in marty schottenheimer as VP of Football operations and see what he thinks.

I keep hearing people bring this idea up, and the more I hear it the more interesting it seems to me.

Keep McD as coach one more year. Get Schotensider in here to run personnel and manage the draft. Obviously McD would provide input and assist, but let McD focus on improving his coaching and gameplanning. Maybe he just has WAY to much responsibility and would be a better coach if he didn't have his hands in everything. If he doesn't cut it in 2012, he's gone. Then we've already had Marty in here for a year and the transition to a new HC could be a lot smoother.

This way Bowlen doesn't have to pay 3 coaches, but can save face with fans by showing he still has the guts to make the necessary changes.

Does anyone even know what Marty is up to these days? Is he even looking for an opportunity like this? Is he truely responsible for putting together the outstanding roster in SD all those years?

Seems like the soundest strategy I've heard so far. (Which is absolute proof that the entire opposite will happen)

Please tell me what you think. I'm a big boy, I can take it.

BCJ
11-02-2010, 01:58 AM
stop crying youll appreciate what having high draft picks can do for your team for one year.

Who are you, MAtt Millen?

Bosco
11-02-2010, 03:34 AM
I keep hearing people bring this idea up, and the more I hear it the more interesting it seems to me.

My problem with it is that I have doubts about how well Marty's coaching and player evaluation would mesh with Josh's style. They have completely different mindsets and I don't know that they would work well together.

TimTebow15MVP
11-02-2010, 04:58 AM
I see more long rrange effects than one year.

IMO this doesn't look like it will be cleaned up in one year and I don't think that Pat Bowlen will admit that things are FUBAR and fire McD.

I dont, this team is not as bad as there record will be. were only a few pieces on defense away. and some healthy guys come back like the leagues sack leader and one of the more complete olbs in ayers. get clady and kuper healthy, beadles and walton a full off season of nfl training and theyd have gotten good experience. insert tebow who will be a beast IMO.

trade orton for a 2nd

trade champ bailey for a 2nd.

and bingo there goes your contenders. with a good draft this off season the broncos will be the team to beat in the west nextt year. i dont think mcdaniels bring this same offense next year.

if he consulted with BB about traveling to london then he needs to notice that even BB scrapped the offense mcdaniels runs. it doesnt work long term. pats are back to alot of two tightend sets. not the 3-4 wideout shit mcdaniels loves to run.

TimTebow15MVP
11-02-2010, 05:00 AM
Who are you, MAtt Millen?

theres nothing wrong with taking a year to suck to land a player like suh, landry.... these high draft picks will be a blessing for the broncos.

missingnumber7
11-02-2010, 08:33 AM
theres nothing wrong with taking a year to suck to land a player like suh, landry.... these high draft picks will be a blessing for the broncos.

The lions have had high draft picks for how many years and still done nothing, the raiders have had high draft picks for how many years and still done nothing. The chances of having a high draft pick and solving all your life long problems is slim and none. Look at the Cowboys from the late 80's. It took several years to put that team together. The colts are similar Manning wasn't the instant savior, but there were other pieces added. We just don't have those pieces in place, and there isn't a savior type player there waiting to be plucked. Pair that with McD tweeking his system to fit what he has I don't think he actually knows what his system is. And if you don't know what your system is, how do you draft for it?

My answer to the coaching problem is we don't need a veteran HEAD coach...we just need a veteran COACH...gimme a coordinator thats been in the league for more than 5 years. We need a coach that will have respect in the locker room. Not because he's the coach, but because the players actually respect him. And that my friends is what our broncos problem is.

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:03 AM
I keep hearing people bring this idea up, and the more I hear it the more interesting it seems to me.

Keep McD as coach one more year. Get Schotensider in here to run personnel and manage the draft. Obviously McD would provide input and assist, but let McD focus on improving his coaching and gameplanning. Maybe he just has WAY to much responsibility and would be a better coach if he didn't have his hands in everything. If he doesn't cut it in 2012, he's gone. Then we've already had Marty in here for a year and the transition to a new HC could be a lot smoother.

This way Bowlen doesn't have to pay 3 coaches, but can save face with fans by showing he still has the guts to make the necessary changes.

Does anyone even know what Marty is up to these days? Is he even looking for an opportunity like this? Is he truely responsible for putting together the outstanding roster in SD all those years?

Seems like the soundest strategy I've heard so far. (Which is absolute proof that the entire opposite will happen)

Please tell me what you think. I'm a big boy, I can take it.

I have been pushing Marty since Shanahan has been fired. Yes, Marty is the guy who put Cleveland, KC, and SD together. Granted he had more input in SD with Butler before he passed and early on with AJ Smith before things went sour.

SD is still riding the success of the turnaroud that depends upon the foundation that Schottenheimer built. Every where Marty has gone he has rebuilt TERRIBLE teams and he has done it quickly.

He knows what football players look like.

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 09:05 AM
My problem with it is that I have doubts about how well Marty's coaching and player evaluation would mesh with Josh's style. They have completely different mindsets and I don't know that they would work well together.

I think they would have some issues but overall it would work and the Broncos would be better off. At this point, McDaniels player evaluation doesnt look so well. Marty knows what players look like. Also, SD is using the foundation he built and run a pass heavy offense and they have done fine.

In the end it doesn't matter because I don't think McDaniels would give up any of his responsibilities!

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2010, 04:22 PM
I dont, this team is not as bad as there record will be. were only a few pieces on defense away. and some healthy guys come back like the leagues sack leader and one of the more complete olbs in ayers. get clady and kuper healthy, beadles and walton a full off season of nfl training and theyd have gotten good experience. insert tebow who will be a beast IMO.

trade orton for a 2nd

trade champ bailey for a 2nd.

and bingo there goes your contenders. with a good draft this off season the broncos will be the team to beat in the west nextt year. i dont think mcdaniels bring this same offense next year.

if he consulted with BB about traveling to london then he needs to notice that even BB scrapped the offense mcdaniels runs. it doesnt work long term. pats are back to alot of two tightend sets. not the 3-4 wideout shit mcdaniels loves to run.

This isn't Madden.

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2010, 04:24 PM
theres nothing wrong with taking a year to suck to land a player like suh, landry.... these high draft picks will be a blessing for the broncos.

Denver hasn't drafted in the top 10 of the common draft EVER... Tanking a season to get a high draft pick doesn't sit well with anyone. Fans/Owners/Players. That's flat out stupid.

slim
11-02-2010, 04:46 PM
Denver hasn't drafted in the top 10 of the common draft EVER... Tanking a season to get a high draft pick doesn't sit well with anyone. Fans/Owners/Players. That's flat out stupid.

Are you sure?

jhildebrand
11-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Denver hasn't drafted in the top 10 of the common draft EVER... Tanking a season to get a high draft pick doesn't sit well with anyone. Fans/Owners/Players. That's flat out stupid.

Mike Croel called. He asked that you give him a call.

slim
11-02-2010, 04:57 PM
Mike Croel called. He asked that you give him a call.

So did Chris Hinton and Riley Odoms.

I think those are the only 3 top 5 picks we have had. That is pretty interesting.

Edit: there may have been a few before 1967, but I am not that old. In fact, those teams were pretty bad, so I am guessing there were a few top 5 picks in the early 60's

Italianmobstr7
11-03-2010, 12:51 PM
Are you sure?


Mike Croel called. He asked that you give him a call.

My bad. We've picked in the top 5 1 time since 1984. Mike Croel in 1991. That's still pretty damn impressive. I don't know if there's another team that can boast that same stat...

***EDIT*** Only the Vikings & Steelers can say the same thing. Only 1 time have we picked in the top 5 of the draft since 1984.

That shows one thing. Our team has been consistenly mediocre at worst. We're not used to losing in Denver, so I'm not surprised everyone is having a meltdown. Either way, going "Madden" on our team in real life isn't going to solve anything. I also don't think we're "screwed" There's a lot of time left in this season. We have some young, talented players. I'm excited for the future of this team.

KCL
11-03-2010, 02:23 PM
So did Chris Hinton and Riley Odoms.

I think those are the only 3 top 5 picks we have had. That is pretty interesting.

Edit: there may have been a few before 1967, but I am not that old. In fact, those teams were pretty bad, so I am guessing there were a few top 5 picks in the early 60's

This is a post for Mister Topscribe and...

that other old timer Dread....;)

Dean
11-03-2010, 09:41 PM
Here are our low round picks in the sixties.
1961 1st pick Gaithers a HB
1962 2nd Olsen a DT
1963 5th Alexander DB
1964 4th Brown a DT
1966 4th again Shay a DT
1967 6th Little a RB
1992 in the supplimental draft we took Bobby Humphrey

Merlin Olsen and Floyd Little were the only two worth a damn.

Dzone
11-03-2010, 10:08 PM
In the end its looking like a good thing that Mcd failed in his plan to bring in matt cassell..He may be a weakness in an otherwise good KC team...reminds of elvis grbac...ya gotta wonder why Mcd was so desperate to land cassell

KCL
11-03-2010, 10:12 PM
In the end its looking like a good thing that Mcd failed in his plan to bring in matt cassell..He may be a weakness in an otherwise good KC team...reminds of elvis grbac...ya gotta wonder why Mcd was so desperate to land cassell

Cassel hasn't been all that bad...he isn't a Brady but then again the Chiefs don't have to rely on the passing game.