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View Full Version : McDaniels OUT..or Tebow IN??



Watchthemiddle
10-31-2010, 07:57 PM
This question goes out to those of you who want McDaniels out and Tebow to be the starting QB.,,,,,Claymore....:laugh:

Because you can't have it both ways.

If Tebow were to be named the starter, who is going to coach him up, develop him, and work with him as a coach? The right man IMO would be McDaniels.

An interim HC?

Wink?? :laugh:

Discuss...

Northman
10-31-2010, 08:02 PM
For me its pretty simple.

If Tebow comes in give McD another year but at least it means we are truly rebuilding for the future and not dicking around by pretending to be contenders. If we continue to keep Orton in a pointless season than McD needs to go. If that happens than i dont think Mcd would be the only coach to be able to coach Tebow up. He's not the be all end all to helping young QB's.

claymore
10-31-2010, 08:10 PM
This question goes out to those of you who want McDaniels out and Tebow to be the starting QB.,,,,,Claymore....:laugh:

Because you can't have it both ways.

If Tebow were to be named the starter, who is going to coach him up, develop him, and work with him as a coach? The right man IMO would be McDaniels.

An interim HC?

Wink?? :laugh:

Discuss...

I want McDaniels out. I dont much care how everything else falls into place.

We could cut everyone tomorrow and I wouldnt flinch. We need to get the stink out.

Shazam!
10-31-2010, 08:12 PM
TT has to go because the new HC coming in needs tape to see if TT is his guy or if he needs to draft a franchise QB.

McDaniels is gone unless Denver wins like 8 in a row.

I hate him. He has turned the Broncos into a ******* joke.

claymore
10-31-2010, 08:30 PM
TT has to go because the new HC coming in needs tape to see if TT is his guy or if he needs to draft a franchise QB.

McDaniels is gone unless Denver wins like 8 in a row.

I hate him. He has turned the Broncos into a ******* joke.
I agree. I dont care who starts next year as long as the coach has enough tape to make an informed decision before the draft.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-31-2010, 08:30 PM
So let me get this straight... McDaniels is the only coach capable of coaching up Tim Tebow? I think Urban Myer and John Gruden might have a different opinion. Hell, maybe another coach could work with Tebow AND coach this team to a few wins now and then. WHAT A CONCEPT!?!?!?!

Watchthemiddle
10-31-2010, 08:36 PM
So let me get this straight... McDaniels is the only coach capable of coaching up Tim Tebow? I think Urban Myer and John Gruden might have a different opinion. Hell, maybe another coach could work with Tebow AND coach this team to a few wins now and then. WHAT A CONCEPT!?!?!?!

McD gets fired tomorrow and Tebow gets the start. Who is going to coach him NOW to develop him? It takes someone NOW...WHAT A CONCEPT.

The point of the question is for those who want both CONCEPTS tomorrow.

Your going to bring in Gruden or Myer tomorrow to coach him up and "experience" him for the last 8 games? Nope.

Re-read the question and get back to me. It's based off of the threads and posts from people who want both to happen now.

Northman
10-31-2010, 08:36 PM
So let me get this straight... McDaniels is the only coach capable of coaching up Tim Tebow? I think Urban Myer and John Gruden might have a different opinion. Hell, maybe another coach could work with Tebow AND coach this team to a few wins now and then. WHAT A CONCEPT!?!?!?!


I laughed hysterically at the comment too. Nevermind the job he did with public relations with Cutler. Yea, i want that guy coaching up Tebow.

scott.475
10-31-2010, 08:44 PM
Clearly we can have both right now. Don't you all remember McD is a QB mastermind? He can make any QB into an all world player. Didn't y'all see what he did with that no talent hack Tom Brady? :lol:

I think at this point I would take Tebow. The season is lost at this point, I can't imagine us winning another 6 games this year, what would it hurt?

Shazam!
10-31-2010, 08:48 PM
TT is young enough that an incoming coach can work him.

I dont give a shit at this point.

The Denver Broncos have become a virtual embarassment under Josh McDaniels.

I just can't stomach this. They've become a joke losing to bottom feeders.

Medford Bronco
10-31-2010, 09:01 PM
So let me get this straight... McDaniels is the only coach capable of coaching up Tim Tebow? I think Urban Myer and John Gruden might have a different opinion. Hell, maybe another coach could work with Tebow AND coach this team to a few wins now and then. WHAT A CONCEPT!?!?!?!

Gruden is my choice.

He is not as clueless as Mr. Bubblescreen

Watchthemiddle
10-31-2010, 09:07 PM
Gruden is my choice.

He is not as clueless as Mr. Bubblescreen

Gruden and Cowher are a lot of peoples choices but if I'm not mistaken, Gruden likes what he is doing and from everything I have heard IF Cowher decides to coach again, he would want to stay on the East Coast by his girls.

My personal opinion is IF McDaniels decides to start Tebow, he needs to be the one coaching him since he did the trades, moved up, and drafted him. Sink or swim if you want to keep your job and I think he would develop TT into a good QB.

If McD got the axe, I am not sure who on the staff right now could get Tebow ready for the remaining 8 games so Orton needs to stay as the starter. The chemistry he has right now with the WR's is irreplaceable.

Jake Klug
10-31-2010, 09:14 PM
So let me get this straight... McDaniels is the only coach capable of coaching up Tim Tebow? I think Urban Myer and John Gruden might have a different opinion. Hell, maybe another coach could work with Tebow AND coach this team to a few wins now and then. WHAT A CONCEPT!?!?!?!

This. The two arent mutually exclusive.

59-14 is going to be written on McDaniels tombstone. Something has to be done about this kind of a stink. But they need to start with firing that wormtongue, Ellis.

UnderArmour
10-31-2010, 09:33 PM
John Gruden had the Bucs competitive for years after the talent well ran dry. Unfortunately, I think McDaniels gets 1 more year.

Watchthemiddle
10-31-2010, 10:00 PM
John Gruden had the Bucs competitive for years after the talent well ran dry. Unfortunately, I think McDaniels gets 1 more year.

Wrong.

Gruden inherited a Tony Dungy team and won the Super Bowl.

Followed that up with a stellar 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7 seasons. He was 57-55 with Tampa in 7 seasons. Not exactly competitive.

Thnikkaman
10-31-2010, 10:03 PM
This. The two arent mutually exclusive.

59-14 is going to be written on McDaniels tombstone. Something has to be done about this kind of a stink. But they need to start with firing that wormtongue, Ellis.

Is 59-0 going to be written on Jeff Fischer's tombstone? I believe he is still coaching down in Tennessee.

Shazam!
10-31-2010, 10:04 PM
Let TT play for Christ's sake. We know what Orton can do. We have nothing to lose at this point after getting creamed 59-14 and losing to another sad team this week.

As for the Coaching, I'd love Team Tuna to be the Denver Broncos, but I don't see him coming to the chilly Rockies after Miami.

Give me Gruden. Besides Gruden or Cowher they may as well keep McD if neither can be had. There are few sufficient options out there besides those three. I want an experienced, marquee coach with a track record, who has loyal assistants who can stop up in the future as a possible successor (like Kubiak was).

I dont want to bring in another 'hot' assistant coach who is considered a commodity. Look how that worked out for Denver.

I can't believe how low they have gone. It's not a lack of talent on this team IMO. It's Coaching and all that goes with it - gameplanning, motivation, playcalling, leadership, practice, analyzing, scheming... All on McD.

Medford Bronco
10-31-2010, 10:04 PM
Wrong.

Gruden inherited a Tony Dungy team and won the Super Bowl.

Followed that up with a stellar 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7 seasons. He was 57-55 with Tampa in 7 seasons. Not exactly competitive.

Actually right now that is better than I would expect out of McD

3 of the last 4 above 500. We are 4-14 the last 18 and getting much worse.

Its not like we have played great at all this year, save for the Seattle game. Even the Tenn game was dicey at best.

Mike
10-31-2010, 10:05 PM
Is 59-0 going to be written on Jeff Fischer's tombstone? I believe he is still coaching down in Tennessee.

Well, 1 - he is a proven HC and 2 - that was to a NE team and not to the division rival Oakland Raiders.

Thnikkaman
10-31-2010, 10:05 PM
I'd take Tebow and McD over firing McD and keeping Orton. Orton has no excuses for the fumble or the INT today.

(Written while I watch Drew Brees fumble the ball away)

Softskull
10-31-2010, 10:13 PM
Give me Gruden.

I agree on Gruden being a great canidate. He would have that same kind of hate that Shanny had for the Raiders. Life is good when we beat up on the Raiders. Besides that, I find it damn funny when Gruden calls the refs "Forrest Gump".

Thnikkaman
10-31-2010, 10:17 PM
Well, 1 - he is a proven HC and 2 - that was to a NE team and not to the division rival Oakland Raiders.

1. The Raiders just schooled the Seahawks today. The Raiders are actually starting to have some stability in coaching staff. I would dare say that the end of Raiders mediocrity is this year.

2. Lets look at Fischer's track record with the Titans:

09 8 8
08 13 3
07 10 6
06 8 8
05 4 12
04 5 11
03 12 4
02 11 5
01 7 9
00 13 3
99 13 3
98 8 8
97 8 8
96 8 8
95 7 9


Boy, I'd hate to be around a bunch of Oilers/Titans fans between the years of 95-98, o1, 04-06, and last year would have been hell. By your definition, Fisher is an experienced head coach. He took over in the middle of a 2-14 sesaon, and has been to one Super Bowl in 15 years.

If I were you as a Titans fan, I would HATE Jeff Fisher.

Thnikkaman
10-31-2010, 10:31 PM
For fun, here's Gruden's track record. (Boy he never had a bad season)

1998 8 8
1999 8 8
2000 12 4
2001 10 6
2002 12 4
2003 7 9
2004 5 11
2005 11 5
2006 4 12
2007 9 7
2008 9 7


And everyone's golden boy, Cowher:

1992 11 5
1993 9 7
1994 12 4
1995 11 5
1996 10 6
1997 11 5
1998 7 9
1999 6 10
2000 9 7
2001 13 3
2002 10 5
2003 6 10
2004 15 1
2005 11 5
2006 8 8

By your standards, he should have been fired in 03.

So sure, you guys continue calling for this entropy that the Raiders just went through for the last decade of firing one coach after another. Lets do that. That will get us a winning team. Screw patience. Screw letting a new head coach figure it out with his first team.

McDaniels will be a good HC, will it be with Denver, or somewhere else?

Broncos Mtnman
10-31-2010, 10:32 PM
I'd be in favor of getting rid of Mickey, hire a new head coach, and let him handle the current 1st round QB the same way Mickey handled his.

:coffee:

Ravage!!!
10-31-2010, 10:39 PM
Gruden and Cowher are a lot of peoples choices but if I'm not mistaken, Gruden likes what he is doing and from everything I have heard IF Cowher decides to coach again, he would want to stay on the East Coast by his girls.

My personal opinion is IF McDaniels decides to start Tebow, he needs to be the one coaching him since he did the trades, moved up, and drafted him. Sink or swim if you want to keep your job and I think he would develop TT into a good QB.

If McD got the axe, I am not sure who on the staff right now could get Tebow ready for the remaining 8 games so Orton needs to stay as the starter. The chemistry he has right now with the WR's is irreplaceable.

Gruden would take a HC job if hired.

Also.. the rumors are that Cowher would love to go to Chicago. Now that his wife has died, staying near his girls while in college isn't the same as him staying home while they were in HS and his wife in her dying days. Cowher may not want to come here anyway. He would want to go to a team that has a lot more in place, and certainly would have that in Chicago,San Diego, Cinci, Jax, and Minnesota....

But I don't think McD is the only coach that needs to coach Tebow. Unfortunately, McD is the one that chose to spend so many picks on a project QB instead of using those picks for depth. Now he may verywell never get to use that "brilliant" draft choice. It was a dumbdraft pick for many reasons... one of which he assumed he would be around long enough to simply let him sit.

silkamilkamonico
10-31-2010, 10:45 PM
We just need a Qb that can actually win. The biggest baffle Denver did was benching Plunger for Cutler, because we haven't won jack shit since.

I hated Plunger, but it pains me to say that replacing him was the downfall of this organization.

BroncoWave
10-31-2010, 10:46 PM
Gruden would take a HC job if hired.

Also.. the rumors are that Cowher would love to go to Chicago. Now that his wife has died, staying near his girls while in college isn't the same as him staying home while they were in HS and his wife in her dying days. Cowher may not want to come here anyway. He would want to go to a team that has a lot more in place, and certainly would have that in Chicago,San Diego, Cinci, Jax, and Minnesota....

But I don't think McD is the only coach that needs to coach Tebow. Unfortunately, McD is the one that chose to spend so many picks on a project QB instead of using those picks for depth. Now he may verywell never get to use that "brilliant" draft choice. It was a dumbdraft pick for many reasons... one of which he assumed he would be around long enough to simply let him sit.

If Schefter's report today was correct he will be around long enough to see what Tebow can do.

silkamilkamonico
10-31-2010, 10:46 PM
I don't think Bowlen would go after Cowher, or I think he would want Gruden before Cowher. He wants an offensive minded coach. It's always been his mindset in Denver.

Jake Klug
10-31-2010, 10:48 PM
Is 59-0 going to be written on Jeff Fischer's tombstone? I believe he is still coaching down in Tennessee.

No. It wont be on Fisher's tombstone.

silkamilkamonico
10-31-2010, 10:50 PM
Blah on Jeff Fischer. Reminds me too much of John Fox. Overrated.

chazoe60
10-31-2010, 11:18 PM
Wrong.

Gruden inherited a Tony Dungy team and won the Super Bowl.

Followed that up with a stellar 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7 seasons. He was 57-55 with Tampa in 7 seasons. Not exactly competitive.

And beat his old Oakland team, but you conveniently left that part out.

Ravage!!!
10-31-2010, 11:25 PM
We just need a Qb that can actually win. The biggest baffle Denver did was benching Plunger for Cutler, because we haven't won jack shit since.

I hated Plunger, but it pains me to say that replacing him was the downfall of this organization.

He wasn't winning when he was benched.that was NOT the downfallof this team. He was a patchwork QB anyway.

Ravage!!!
10-31-2010, 11:27 PM
If Schefter's report today was correct he will be around long enough to see what Tebow can do.

IF. It was his guess. I agreed (as I wrote in your thread).. but at the same time, Schefter's report didn't mention that if McD is hired somewhere, the salary he earns would be deducted from what we pay him. The season tickets that are sold when he's fired would cover the rest.

sneakers
10-31-2010, 11:36 PM
I wonder what Bill Devaroe would say if he was here right now.......?

Watchthemiddle
10-31-2010, 11:41 PM
And beat his old Oakland team, but you conveniently left that part out.

Ha ha ha...I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

So he used Dungy's guys to beat his former guys. Classic. :laugh:

BroncoWave
10-31-2010, 11:58 PM
IF. It was his guess. I agreed (as I wrote in your thread).. but at the same time, Schefter's report didn't mention that if McD is hired somewhere, the salary he earns would be deducted from what we pay him. The season tickets that are sold when he's fired would cover the rest.

There is such a long waiting list for Broncos season tickets, McD getting fired wouldn't affect that a bit.

Ravage!!!
11-01-2010, 12:08 AM
There is such a long waiting list for Broncos season tickets, McD getting fired wouldn't affect that a bit.

But let me state.. that it DOES tell something to the owner when season tickets are NOT being renewed. Also.. the expensive boxes.. where Owners make their big money.. DOES make a difference if the team is winning or losing. Those aren't your normal season ticket holders.. AND.... is something that is NOT counted when counting on "sold out" stadiums. Thus the "people are waiting" lists don't hold true for corporate box stats.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that ticket sales don't change if/when a team gets a top draft pick, changes coaches, or has losing seasons. That effects the Broncos just as it effects every team in the NFL.

silkamilkamonico
11-01-2010, 12:16 AM
He wasn't winning when he was benched.that was NOT the downfallof this team. He was a patchwork QB anyway.

He was on a 1-3 slide. Denver was still 7-4 and very much in the hunt. IMHO, Shanahan gave up on that season because he wanted to get to Cutler. It's why the offense was changed going into that year, IMHO.

Doesn't matter really. It was simply a coaching decision that did not work out. Seems like there's been alot of those in Devner the last few years unfortunately.

Watchthemiddle
11-01-2010, 12:19 AM
But let me state.. that it DOES tell something to the owner when season tickets are NOT being renewed. Also.. the expensive boxes.. where Owners make their big money.. DOES make a difference if the team is winning or losing. Those aren't your normal season ticket holders.. AND.... is something that is NOT counted when counting on "sold out" stadiums. Thus the "people are waiting" lists don't hold true for corporate box stats.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that ticket sales don't change if/when a team gets a top draft pick, changes coaches, or has losing seasons. That effects the Broncos just as it effects every team in the NFL.

Information....just in case you didn't know and it's obvious you don't.... but.....

Umm..the players, coaches, etc. aren't paid a penny from ticket sales. They are all paid by the money that rolls in by the television contracts. Ticket sales, merchandise, and concessions go straight to the owner.

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 12:32 AM
And beat his old Oakland team, but you conveniently left that part out.

Knowing the playbook they were using to boot, so he could beat them because he knew what the QB's weaknesses were and had a really good Idea what was going to be called.

He played Al Davis like a fiddle.

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 12:34 AM
Information....just in case you didn't know and it's obvious you don't.... but.....

Umm..the players, coaches, etc. aren't paid a penny from ticket sales. They are all paid by the money that rolls in by the television contracts. Ticket sales, merchandise, and concessions go straight to the owner.

Actually all of the revenue is counted toward the 60% of the players cut in this CBA. there is a hold out of a specified amount but it is not dedicated from the sales that you mentions

Ravage!!!
11-01-2010, 12:35 AM
Information....just in case you didn't know and it's obvious you don't.... but.....

Umm..the players, coaches, etc. aren't paid a penny from ticket sales. They are all paid by the money that rolls in by the television contracts. Ticket sales, merchandise, and concessions go straight to the owner.

wow.. you are trying to correct something that makes NO sense whatsoever... NONE. Its absolutely hilarious that you actually tried to use this as a fact of argument. :lol: Talk about being OBVIOUS when a boy doesn't have information.

You obviously have NO clue what you are talking about. For one, I said NOTHING about where the money COMES from. Thats irrelevant. That doesnt' even have a place in the conversation. Has NOTHING to do with what is being discussed. From what account the coach's checks actually come from, is COMPLETELY irrelevant. :laugh:

But thanks for playing :beer:

PAINTERDAVE
11-01-2010, 12:35 AM
You cant blame the coach for this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1NJGf4iGk

Northman
11-01-2010, 12:44 AM
You cant blame the coach for this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1NJGf4iGk

I love how Bucky just stays in the pile instead of going out in the flat. Like chasing the Dline back to Orton is going to help him. haha

Dirk
11-01-2010, 06:36 AM
Even though it hasn't been officially stated (that I know of) the Broncos are in rebuilding mode.

There has been a change in personel all over the place. McD made the statement of wanting to get bigger and tougher. He is working towards that. Unfortunately, it takes time to build towards that. I believe he is on the right track.

The biggest issues I see at the moment isn't wether to start Tebow or get rid of McD. Here are my list of issues:

1. Defensive Coordinator - We need a REAL one and not "Wink". He isn't cutting it.

2. Offensive Line - There is no continuity YET. There is talent there, they just aren't playing well. It's a learning curve.

3. Defensive Lineman - The defensive lineman are getting man handled all the time.

4. No Pass rush - Without Doom it's almost non existent. Which is sad.

Again, I think the Broncos are rebuilding. It takes time. I don't see McD going anywhere if he and Bowlen are on the same page about rebuilding the team.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-01-2010, 06:54 AM
Wrong.

Gruden inherited a Tony Dungy team and won the Super Bowl.

Followed that up with a stellar 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7 seasons. He was 57-55 with Tampa in 7 seasons. Not exactly competitive.

A Tony Dungy team that had a great defense (built by Monte Kiffin) but whose offense was just plain poor. Gruden took a bunch of offensive castoffs (guys like Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Meshawn Johnson, Michael Pittman, and a patchwork O-line) and turned them into an effective unit that could score points and didn't make a lot of mistakes which played to the defenses' strengths.

Much like everyone says about Shanahan needing Elway to win a Superbowl, Dungy needed Manning. Dungy was FIRED from TB. Gruden took the same team, tweaked the offense a little, and won a Superbowl with them.

Elevation inc
11-01-2010, 01:54 PM
This. The two arent mutually exclusive.

59-14 is going to be written on McDaniels tombstone. Something has to be done about this kind of a stink. But they need to start with firing that wormtongue, Ellis.

he is the biggest reason for everything wrong in my opinion..he was the one who made the call on the goodmans after it was reported jim was upset about the whole cutler thing.....i think he is also the one that felt MCD could do it all becasue of such a well articulated interview......haha

Jake Klug
11-01-2010, 01:55 PM
he is the biggest reason for everything wrong in my opinion..he was the one who made the call on the goodmans after it was reported jim was upset about the whole cutler thing.....i think he is also the one that felt MCD could do it all becasue of such a well articulated interview......haha

I agree. He has the opposite of the midas touch...at least where the fanbase is concerned.

MileHighCrew
11-01-2010, 03:35 PM
McD hasn't shown a willingness to put Tebow in, even in the Raider game which would have made sense

Watchthemiddle
11-03-2010, 01:57 AM
McD hasn't shown a willingness to put Tebow in, even in the Raider game which would have made sense

Agree.......

Soooooo.....all you who want to see Tebow start (look at my long term avy) I am a HUGE TT fan.....however...I am realistic enough to know he is not ready to start.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-03-2010, 08:13 AM
Agree.......

Soooooo.....all you who want to see Tebow start (look at my long term avy) I am a HUGE TT fan.....however...I am realistic enough to know he is not ready to start.

But how do we know that until he gets an opportunity? Nobody thought Sam Bradford would play well his first year, and how about 'ol Colt McCoy? He's not doing poorly at all.

If nothing else, Tebow brings the element of surprise because nobody has any real tape on him other than taking shotgun snaps and running off tackle. We might just sneak a few wins out because he's a better passer than people give him credit for and if he actually is allowed to throw the ball, he might excel given the current weapons we have which closely resemble the ones he had at UF.

I didn't think Tebwo looked bad at all in the preseason. He had fumbled a snap and threw a pick vs Minnesota but overall, he looked like a pretty good passer and can definitely make plays outside the pocket. He made some beauties rolling to the right (his weak side) and throwing BBs downfield.

He brings the same element that SF used in Troy Smith to beat us... Hard to sack and can buy time for receivers to get open.

Northman
11-03-2010, 08:20 AM
and how about 'ol Colt McCoy? He's not doing poorly at all.




Well clearly, Colt McCoy > Tim Tebow :lol:

Ravage!!!
11-03-2010, 10:15 AM
But how do we know that until he gets an opportunity? Nobody thought Sam Bradford would play well his first year, and how about 'ol Colt McCoy? He's not doing poorly at all.

If nothing else, Tebow brings the element of surprise because nobody has any real tape on him other than taking shotgun snaps and running off tackle. We might just sneak a few wins out because he's a better passer than people give him credit for and if he actually is allowed to throw the ball, he might excel given the current weapons we have which closely resemble the ones he had at UF.

I didn't think Tebwo looked bad at all in the preseason. He had fumbled a snap and threw a pick vs Minnesota but overall, he looked like a pretty good passer and can definitely make plays outside the pocket. He made some beauties rolling to the right (his weak side) and throwing BBs downfield.

He brings the same element that SF used in Troy Smith to beat us... Hard to sack and can buy time for receivers to get open.


You know.. I've been a pretty big advocate on pointing things out about McD's ego and how the decisions made have been about HIM, rather than the team.

I firmly believe this. He's shown the pattern. The decision for Orton over his first round pick may very well have a factor in this, as well. When players get talked about more than other players... or when their popularity seems to dictate a lot of questions from the press about their playing time..... they sit, or they get traded.

Ravage!!!
11-03-2010, 10:16 AM
Well clearly, Colt McCoy > Tim Tebow :lol:

Probably is in the NFL

Ravage!!!
11-03-2010, 10:20 AM
A Tony Dungy team that had a great defense (built by Monte Kiffin) but whose offense was just plain poor. Gruden took a bunch of offensive castoffs (guys like Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Meshawn Johnson, Michael Pittman, and a patchwork O-line) and turned them into an effective unit that could score points and didn't make a lot of mistakes which played to the defenses' strengths.

Much like everyone says about Shanahan needing Elway to win a Superbowl, Dungy needed Manning. Dungy was FIRED from TB. Gruden took the same team, tweaked the offense a little, and won a Superbowl with them.

Even with Manning... even when having Manning in NINE of his prime years, Tony had a losing record in the playoffs, and the ONLY wins he had were in the ONE year he won the Super Bowl. Most of the time he would win a bye, and lose in his first game. One-n-done Dungy. He came into a team that had Manning, Harrison, Wayne, and James. Talk about a dream job.