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Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 03:53 PM
This team is not mentally tough. we have to many consistent mental errors at key points. part of that isMCD and part of that is playersnot plying how they use to or to potential....ut honestly are biggest weakness on this team is mental make-up and the OL....lol

walton and beadles are doing the best they can as rookies...i get that but josh should have had a plan that didnt includ hochstein a the go to guy on the OL for depth...bad call there we have no depth...Ol is horrible and probally will be all year wich is why are offense is so inconsistent. next yer we need to do to our guards what josh did to orton....bring in some serious competition....kuper forgot how to play guard, hochstein and daniels suck and the rooks need to keep working harder....

our secondary is no longer vaunted....to be honest champ forgot how to play corner for a few plays, goodman was clearly playing hurt as he was slow all game, and hill and dawkins forgot how to cover.....dawkins was burned by a FB for a no look pass from smith, and champ just stood there watching...watching champ beg for PI on a coupole plays after losing his WR was sad.....this needs work....squid is legit at nickel and Cox will surely keepi improving in big ways.....but we need competition at safety that can stay healthy....my fear is MCD will milk these guys as long as possible because they are vets. but the fact remains they are costing us games

Our DL has some good puzzle pieces but poor overall talent.....Thomas and vickerson are legit rotation guys at 3-4 end....but at NT we suck....san diego clearly knew jamal was done....bannan isnt a great starter either but he can be a good role model...we need talent here next year at least 1 FA and some high draft picks.....and why the hell is MCbean getting so much playing time when he clearly is the worst DL we have....

At LB haggan and Dj are inconsistent this year...i like both but a impact ILB i needed to up the comptition. At OLB i thnk we are set there.

we also need help at Rb.....

I really belive there are quite a few positives about this team, but you have to wonder how long MCD really has....he lost my full support after last week, but im still somewhat curious to see if he can change this around....

At this point though you have to wonder if we should just blow it up.....but we could be down for the next 3 years.....

anyways.....game was fun, englis h ans were really getting into it...83,000 fans was fun to see....that bs call that nullified Gaffney's TD was the game changer. Denver instantly lost its mental toughness after that...is that coaching or players...i think both....glad we kept fighting but damn....orton cost us some key times though......that final INT ws pathetic......and the fumble in our zone was horrible......

his team has tons of soul searching to do.....can we put a huge win streak together like SD did in 2007 or 2008???? doubtful???? this team has shot its own foot to much this year to recover......

fans can only wonder were do we go from here......but for some prospective we are now 4-13 in our last 17....i dont find it out of line at all for people to be critical right now....

Nomad
10-31-2010, 04:11 PM
Glad to hear from you INC and I hope you enjoyed yourself in London somewhat! The Moreno/Gaffney/Oilneman call was bs but :ohwell: done deal! I don't have an answer for the BRONCOS but right now, it's not working!! I'll keep the faith that one week the BRONCOS turn it around and hopefully sooner than later!

cuzz4169
10-31-2010, 05:08 PM
my opinion we have to many holes to fill cant spend all that money to keep champ....who are the Ravens CBs? doesnt matter bc their front 7 is good....look around the league...My opinion dont resign champ for the big money...I like champ always have but not for the money he wants bc we have to many holes...if we didnt have the holes and had the money to spend i would sign him in a heart beat. now that i think of it Elway always took paycuts so we could sign good players never seen champ do that....guess he doesnt want a championship that bad...just wants to be paid like 99% of the players.

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 05:28 PM
my opinion we have to many holes to fill cant spend all that money to keep champ....who are the Ravens CBs? doesnt matter bc their front 7 is good....look around the league...My opinion dont resign champ for the big money...I like champ always have but not for the money he wants bc we have to many holes...if we didnt have the holes and had the money to spend i would sign him in a heart beat. now that i think of it Elway always took paycuts so we could sign good players never seen champ do that....guess he doesnt want a championship that bad...just wants to be paid like 99% of the players.

champs new deal he was about to sign was a paycut....bowlen took it off the table beacuse of the labor uncertainity.....champ may not want to sign any deal with us now anyway...although he did play a part in the loss tonight to.....

Bosco
10-31-2010, 05:40 PM
I agree the team is not mentally tough. They completely lost their groove after that bullshit chop block call on Moreno. That's the puzzling part for me. With the exception of the Oakland game, they've come out with plenty of fire but lose it quickly. That is a serious concern that needs to be addressed.

I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game but I didn't see any real bad plays on Champ's part.

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 05:57 PM
I agree the team is not mentally tough. They completely lost their groove after that bullshit chop block call on Moreno. That's the puzzling part for me. With the exception of the Oakland game, they've come out with plenty of fire but lose it quickly. That is a serious concern that needs to be addressed.

I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game but I didn't see any real bad plays on Champ's part.

on the huge haiil marry san fran had....dawkins was beat, and champ literally just watched the guy make the catch...normal champ goes and gets that ball period thats how close he was to the play....he knew he messed up to as he was pissed.....dawkins was furious as well.....they both got had by 46 for san fran for a hail marry on that play

mental toughness seems to be the top issue......not sure where the blame lies for that, but this team gets but hurt very easily if things dont go there way........

frenchfan
10-31-2010, 05:58 PM
This team is not mentally tough. we have to many consistent mental errors at key points. part of that isMCD and part of that is playersnot plying how they use to or to potential....ut honestly are biggest weakness on this team is mental make-up and the OL....lol
Inc... This mental weakness came a long time ago...
Honestly, since #7 retired, we lost leadership, soul, heart... How many games like this I've seen since that day... too many IMO... And always the same thing : we are soft mentally... we quit...
I'm fed up hearing players saying they will give everything and not seeing it on the field...
I admit the losses... it's part of the game... But I'm fed up seeing those kind of losses... Today and last week... Pathetic...
Who will come on the field and move the players' asses? Who will spirit this team?

This team lacks talent and spirit... May be someone like Tebow can bring back the fighting spirit? If people can doubt about his qualities to be a NFL passer, I guess he has a great leadership (Haven't he shown it in college?).

I hope we'll have a good offseason this year... Bring some talent here...

Bosco
10-31-2010, 06:02 PM
on the huge haiil marry san fran had....dawkins was beat, and champ literally just watched the guy make the catch...normal champ goes and gets that ball period thats how close he was to the play....he knew he messed up to as he was pissed.....dawkins was furious as well.....they both got had by 46 for san fran for a hail marry on that play

mental toughness seems to be the top issue......not sure where the blame lies for that, but this team gets but hurt very easily if things dont go there way........

I don't think Dawkins was beat. From what I saw it looked like Dawkins was in a Cover 2 or Cover 3 zone and was late arriving on the pass, likely because he was back deeper when the ball was thrown.

I'd have to watch it again, but that's what it looked like in the heat of the moment.

Nomad
10-31-2010, 06:07 PM
Hey INC, You staying in London tonight or back in Italy!?!? What time is it over there??

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 06:08 PM
maybe i missed dawkins coverage read on the play but he and champ failed miserably in my eyes.....

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 06:09 PM
Hey INC, You staying in London tonight or back in Italy!?!? What time is it over there??

its 1100 pm here, going back to italy tomorrow......booo...haha...its been a fun trip....the loss kinda killed it a little. but unless we get blown out like we did last week i forget pretty quickly and move onto the next week.....

Tned
10-31-2010, 06:11 PM
maybe i missed dawkins coverage read on the play but he and champ failed miserably in my eyes.....

Looked like Champ didn't play it agressive because Dawkins was in position. From the stands and replay board, it looked like it went right through Dawkins hands. I'll have to check it out again on the DVR when I get home at the end of the week.

topscribe
10-31-2010, 06:17 PM
I don't think Dawkins was beat. From what I saw it looked like Dawkins was in a Cover 2 or Cover 3 zone and was late arriving on the pass, likely because he was back deeper when the ball was thrown.

I'd have to watch it again, but that's what it looked like in the heat of the moment.

Dawkins was in pretty good position by the time the ball got there. It was just a
very, very lucky throw. It probably wouldn't have been completed one out of
twenty times, but that is just the way the Broncos' luck has gone this year.

Truly, I have never seen such a snakebit team . . . :tsk:

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Bosco
10-31-2010, 06:21 PM
Dawkins was in pretty good position by the time the ball got there. It was just a
very, very lucky throw. It probably wouldn't have been completed one out of
twenty times, but that is just the way the Broncos' luck has gone this year.

Truly, I have never seen such a snakebit team . . . :tsk:

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Pretty much. You can add that to an ultra ticky tack chop block call that canceled out a perfectly timed flea flicker that went for a touchdown along with Jarvis Moss deciding to block a guy in the back and cancel out Royal's punt return.

After the Jets loss I said the week I was most looking forward to was the bye week, and that's still true.

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 06:24 PM
Dawkins was in pretty good position by the time the ball got there. It was just a
very, very lucky throw. It probably wouldn't have been completed one out of
twenty times, but that is just the way the Broncos' luck has gone this year.

Truly, I have never seen such a snakebit team . . . :tsk:

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lol yes this team has been pretty snakebitten, some not there doing and some there own doing.....it would be nice to come out after the bye a new team.....dont think its going to happen though.....i belive keeping orton and MCD around for this year and next year is the right thing to do.....but i would not be upset if this continues and MCD gets the boot....

I have been a fan of the MCD regime, and after the oaklnd game i went to indifference, after this game im at a point where im starting to think i dont like his regime in its entirety at all.....

as i said in a prior post the biggest thing to me seems to be our mental make-up, or lack of mental toughness the last few years......

Bosco
10-31-2010, 06:29 PM
lI have been a fan of the MCD regime, and after the oaklnd game i went to indifference, after this game im at a point where im starting to think i dont like his regime in its entirety at all...

I know these losses are hard to take and some of the posters here can get real tiring, but believe me, this is just a rough patch that every team goes through once in awhile. We all remember how the 1999 season went, and this feels eerily similar.

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 06:33 PM
I know these losses are hard to take and some of the posters here can get real tiring, but believe me, this is just a rough patch that every team goes through once in awhile. We all remember how the 1999 season went, and this feels eerily similar.

yeah but it shouldnt be like 1999, we lost the duke so a slide was expected, with orton playing at a high level and the kinks supposedly worked out??? we are failing miserably.....its not so much the loss itself, but how we lose by beating our own selves.....the JAX, INDY, JETS games were all losses becasue of what we did wrong.....oakland was a montrosity that MCD can never allow to happen again.....we had better never get worked like that at home again ever......these things even going back to our slide last year show a poor mental make-up and im really starting to think that is becasue of our head coach in some form or some of the position coaches players just arent responding to....Clancy barone for example..cough cough.....

Bosco
10-31-2010, 06:45 PM
yeah but it shouldnt be like 1999, we lost the duke so a slide was expected, with orton playing at a high level and the kinks supposedly worked out??? we are failing miserably.....its not so much the loss itself, but how we lose by beating our own selves.....the JAX, INDY, JETS games were all losses becasue of what we did wrong.....oakland was a montrosity that MCD can never allow to happen again.....we had better never get worked like that at home again ever......these things even going back to our slide last year show a poor mental make-up and im really starting to think that is becasue of our head coach in some form or some of the position coaches players just arent responding to....Clancy barone for example..cough cough.....

1999 was such a rough season because we got bit by the injury bug much like we did this year. Davis, Sharpe, Mobley, and a few others all went down very early in the season and we ended up losing a lot of close games.

It's a shitty season and it sucks when you're a fan, but we'll make it through and come back stronger, just like the 2000 Denver Broncos did.

Tned
10-31-2010, 06:47 PM
I know these losses are hard to take and some of the posters here can get real tiring, but believe me, this is just a rough patch that every team goes through once in awhile. We all remember how the 1999 season went, and this feels eerily similar.

It was these rough patches that were all but unheard of under Shanny, hence my constant reminder how spoiled us Broncos fans have become. In '99, we not only lost Elway, but TD and Sharpe to injuries (I think that was the year Sharpe dislocated his elbow) and I think finished with 6 wins after starting 0-4 (going all by memory).

"Most" teams go through cyclical down periods, but it isn't some the Broncos experienced with Elway or under Shanahan. We aren't used to this.

Bosco
10-31-2010, 06:59 PM
It was these rough patches that were all but unheard of under Shanny, hence my constant reminder how spoiled us Broncos fans have become. In '99, we not only lost Elway, but TD and Sharpe to injuries (I think that was the year Sharpe dislocated his elbow) and I think finished with 6 wins after starting 0-4 (going all by memory).

"Most" teams go through cyclical down periods, but it isn't some the Broncos experienced with Elway or under Shanahan. We aren't used to this.

That's a very key point. Alot of Bronco fans, especially the new ones, simply don't have the perspective that guys like me and you do. They've come to expect .500 or better seasons and anything less, even if only temporary, is causing a lot of hysteria.

I know it seems homerish, but I've really looking forward to the 2011 season should it happen. The thought of a couple big body rookies on the D-Line tying up blocks so DJ, Doom and Ayers can go create havoc makes me very excited. Double that if our offense takes the step to elite as well.

topscribe
10-31-2010, 07:03 PM
It was these rough patches that were all but unheard of under Shanny, hence my constant reminder how spoiled us Broncos fans have become. In '99, we not only lost Elway, but TD and Sharpe to injuries (I think that was the year Sharpe dislocated his elbow) and I think finished with 6 wins after starting 0-4 (going all by memory).

"Most" teams go through cyclical down periods, but it isn't some the Broncos experienced with Elway or under Shanahan. We aren't used to this.

Yes, we are not used to this. And I'm not saying this is a good thing. But it is
times such as this that help us to appreciate the good times.

Nonetheless, I do see a few similarities. No, we didn't lose an Elway or TD. But we
did lose some awfully good, key players at various times, and sometimes several
at once. One could produce the "excuses" card, but when oddsmakers decide the
odds, one of the major factors they consider composes injuries. Despite the old
"next guy's going to have to step up and play" adage, injuries do make a
difference . . .

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Bosco
10-31-2010, 07:07 PM
Yes, we are not used to this. And I'm not saying this is a good thing. But it is
times such as this that help us to appreciate the good times.

Nonetheless, I do see a few similarities. No, we didn't lose an Elway or TD. But we
did lose some awfully good, key players at various times, and sometimes several
at once. One could produce the "excuses" card, but when oddsmakers decide the
odds, one of the major factors they consider composes injuries. Despite the old
"next guy's going to have to step up and play" adage, injuries do make a
difference . . .

-----

Exactly. I've said before that it's McDaniels job of putting safety layers behind the starters and for the most part, he's done that job. When the injury bug hits so hard that even the safety nets are missing time, then you have a serious issue.

Ravage!!!
10-31-2010, 07:09 PM
I'm not into the belief that its beneficial to ahve bad seasons so that we enjoy the good. Denver's "bad" seasons are 7-9-, or 8-8. There is nothing wrong with expecting to have that.

The main complaint is that this team isn't "rebuilding"....its tearing down right before our eyes,and most likely the way things have gone in just the last 2 offseasons, we'll be behind for another few years just to redo everything that was lost.

Elevation inc
10-31-2010, 07:09 PM
That's a very key point. Alot of Bronco fans, especially the new ones, simply don't have the perspective that guys like me and you do. They've come to expect .500 or better seasons and anything less, even if only temporary, is causing a lot of hysteria.

I know it seems homerish, but I've really looking forward to the 2011 season should it happen. The thought of a couple big body rookies on the D-Line tying up blocks so DJ, Doom and Ayers can go create havoc makes me very excited. Double that if our offense takes the step to elite as well.

i dont expect miracles or even a elite season or playoff game every year, im pretty even keeled with that.... but it shouldnt be suprising people are extremely upset with a 4-13 record over our last 17 games.......especially with how the majority of the losses went down......and after we heard all off-season how much better, and more pysically tough we would be.....we have no mental toughness and both LOS are getting worked every game....

thank god we have some bright building blocks.....but there really needs to be a acceptance by MCD that his whole win now mantra aint the working answer and he needs to rebuild the right way and focus on what are true needs are and not solely on what kids impress in private workouts regardless of position.....we have good pieces in denver.....Moreno, Clady, walton, beadles, all of our WR core, our LB's, Thomas, Vickerson, mcbath, larsen, bruton, prater, dawkins, champ, goodman, cox, thompson etc.....but he needs to realize we cant just freely make poor personnel calls and moves on constant whims, because we arent win now ready and we really needed wiser choices all around.....

Denver Native (Carol)
10-31-2010, 07:34 PM
Yes, we are not used to this. And I'm not saying this is a good thing. But it is
times such as this that help us to appreciate the good times.

Nonetheless, I do see a few similarities. No, we didn't lose an Elway or TD. But we
did lose some awfully good, key players at various times, and sometimes several
at once. One could produce the "excuses" card, but when oddsmakers decide the
odds, one of the major factors they consider composes injuries. Despite the old
"next guy's going to have to step up and play" adage, injuries do make a
difference . . .

-----

I posted the following in the gameday thread, and in every game so far this year, we have had key players out. Plus, I believe LenDale would have made a big difference in the run game.

Ayers, Cox, McBath, Vickerson & Woodyard were out for today's game.

AND - the following from Vic Lombardi, who was at the game:

http://twitter.com/viclombardi

With Perrish Cox suffering post-concussion issues, Broncos forced to hurry Goodman back. He's obviously not healthy. about 2 hours ago via web

Tned
10-31-2010, 07:54 PM
http://twitter.com/viclombardi

With Perrish Cox suffering post-concussion issues, Broncos forced to hurry Goodman back. He's obviously not healthy. about 2 hours ago via web

After one defensive session (can't remember if it was the 2nd or 3rd quarter), I noticed Goodman on the trainers table for 3-5 minutes. Looked like the trainer was working on his right thigh or groin. It was hard to tell exactly what.

I took a picture so that I could zoom in and try and see who it was (I could see the 2, but not the other number). I was pretty sure it was goodman, and when he got up I saw the 21.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/BroncosLondon/Wembley/P1030174.jpg