PDA

View Full Version : Which McD hat is more to blame?



ydave77
10-31-2010, 03:53 PM
The current tailspin, has finally affected the mainstream moderates. Since McD got here, some just seem to hate him, just to hate him, other defend every action, because to disparage anything Bronco is just wrong.
Most though, liked McD, thought he was young, smart, and could take this franchise back to the elite super bowl level we were at with Shanny 10+ years ago.
Throughout his stay here, I think most questioned some moves, but believed there was a bigger plan here, something that we were building. I think the current tailspin has really gotten to alot of us though. I am no longer so confident in McD, or the plan. Alot of Bronco fans are like that, its not just the doom and gloomers who are making snide McD comments, but even those of us who support him.

End of the day though, this team is just not very good, and I am not sure the future is that bright. The D is old and not so good, the O is younger, but still not so good.

I just fel like rambling there....

My question is who do you blame more for the slide?

McD the coach or McD on the player personnel side. Honestly not saying this team is a 2 win talent team, but its really not that great of a team. I think McD's drafting has hurt us more than his coaching has...
Its largely an academic question since obviously its still on McD, but I still think he can be a very good coach (maybe wishful thinking).
Thoughts?

G_Money
10-31-2010, 04:04 PM
McDaniels the leader.

As a personnel man he may be improving, as a coordinator he has shown his chops previously, but as a leader?

Big, giant MFing "F".

~G

Northman
10-31-2010, 04:06 PM
McD the GM. He has no clue about player evaluation and makes terrible moves.

Lancane
10-31-2010, 04:06 PM
All of it, his lack in player relations, fundamental understanding of the game, talent evaluation, philosophy and more. He's to blame, no matter which quirk of his he'd like to blame, they're all part of the same man.

TXBRONC
10-31-2010, 04:10 PM
I think his biggest problem is that he is trying micro manage every aspect of the team.

BigDaddyBronco
10-31-2010, 04:17 PM
I think his biggest problem is that he is trying micro manage every aspect of the team.
Exactly. How many of the other coaches have any experience at all? Mix in that with his desire to be a personnel guy, call the plays, develop the QB, be the HC, etc.

Bowlen screwed the pooch by giving him way to much control so early in his career. I think that happened because Bowlen is cheap. Either way it's really killed this team.

McDaniels needs some good coaches and a real GM, if he is going to survive. Otherwise he will be fired.

Lancane
10-31-2010, 04:28 PM
Exactly. How many of the other coaches have any experience at all? Mix in that with his desire to be a personnel guy, call the plays, develop the QB, be the HC, etc.

Bowlen screwed the pooch by giving him way to much control so early in his career. I think that happened because Bowlen is cheap. Either way it's really killed this team.

McDaniels needs some good coaches and a real GM, if he is going to survive. Otherwise he will be fired.

That's an excuse BD, a head coach has more responsibility then your basic coach. He took it for granted, not that I disagree that he has too much power...but honestly, he did this to himself. He had a base core of young talent to build around or make better.

And I'm going beyond Cutler, let's forget the whole Cutler fiasco for a moment and look at the team in whole. If he had re-signed Marshall, there would have been no need to draft Thomas, Decker was worth the risk at that point he was drafted, and that would have given Orton a one-two punch of Marshall and Lloyd, two of the top ten receivers this season. Scheffler was a security blanket, yes we use blocking tight ends, but if a play breaks down a tight end becomes security for the quarterback, and we now sorely lack that. He changed the blocking scheme, so instead of just one or two starters for the line needed, we needed several and it still isn't working. The Smith trade, the moves made in the draft and in free agency have literally cost us the core of talent, he would be closer if he had not tried to tear it apart and rebuild then just build off of what was in place. Moreno does not fit the new blocking scheme, I could even have told him that, but McDaniels believes in himself too much, and depletes everything around him, from talent on the roster to the staff he put together.

TXBRONC
10-31-2010, 04:41 PM
That's an excuse BD, a head coach has more responsibility then your basic coach. He took it for granted, not that I disagree that he has too much power...but honestly, he did this to himself. He had a base core of young talent to build around or make better.

And I'm going beyond Cutler, let's forget the whole Cutler fiasco for a moment and look at the team in whole. If he had re-signed Marshall, there would have been no need to draft Thomas, Decker was worth the risk at that point he was drafted, and that would have given Orton a one-two punch of Marshall and Lloyd, two of the top ten receivers this season. Scheffler was a security blanket, yes we use blocking tight ends, but if a play breaks down a tight end becomes security for the quarterback, and we now sorely lack that. He changed the blocking scheme, so instead of just one or two starters for the line needed, we needed several and it still isn't working. The Smith trade, the moves made in the draft and in free agency have literally cost us the core of talent, he would be closer if he had not tried to tear it apart and rebuild then just build off of what was in place. Moreno does not fit the new blocking scheme, I could even have told him that, but McDaniels believes in himself too much, and depletes everything around him, from talent on the roster to the staff he put together.

I think BDB would agree that head coach has more responsibility nevertheless you've got to let coaches do their jobs. If he's micro-managing all the departments which I get the feeling he's hurting himself and the team.

I Eat Staples
10-31-2010, 06:13 PM
McD the GM. He has no clue about player evaluation and makes terrible moves.

This. His playcalling is suspect at best, but that doesn't matter so much when the players he puts on the field are talentless.

BroncoNut
10-31-2010, 06:29 PM
good honest take ydave. I am certainly having my doubts on his ability to say the least. I think it's really gotten to the point of no return. Damage control mode right now, and I don't have faith he will be able to clean up the mess. I think he does draft and acquire pretty decent talent on Offense. He doesn't seem competent as a coach or evaluator on the defensive positions. I don't think he has the leadership skills quite frankly. This team is not inspired and he seems to get rid of players he doesn't like irregardless of their skill level. I'm certainly not a hater, and I don't mean to bash, but lack of maturity is what I see in him.

nevcraw
10-31-2010, 07:45 PM
Both -
His personel decisions have kept the cupboard bare except in a few spots, His coaching has fielded teams that are flat, unimaginative at times, undiscplined and easily bullied (read:soft).
and not for nothing but I just don't buy that these guys want to bust through a brick wall for him..

Medford Bronco
10-31-2010, 09:17 PM
The GM McD sucks more than the coach IMO
he did okay last year with Shannys players. hmmm

this year he is too bold as well at times. going on 4th down like he is BB. He is NOT BB and does not have Tom Brady. Not even close.

Medford Bronco
10-31-2010, 09:18 PM
Both -
His personel decisions have kept the cupboard bare except in a few spots, His coaching has fielded teams that are flat, unimaginative at times, undiscplined and easily bullied (read:soft).
and not for nothing but I just don't buy that these guys want to bust through a brick wall for him..

He had a team that quit last week. I dont ever want to see that again.

Watchthemiddle
10-31-2010, 10:09 PM
I think his biggest problem is that he is trying micro manage every aspect of the team.

This could be the best explanation I have read in a long time that I had never thought about.

As an OC he is good if not great at scheming a game plan.

As an HC...for me the jury is still out.

As a GM, bust so far concerning draft picks...but I do like some of the free agents he has brought in.

Overall,...off topic....my blame goes to Bowlen for not changing up the atmosphere in Dove Valley after firing Shanahan. Bring in a true GM to go with a true HC. Does anyone know the last time we have had either and not one guy doing two jobs??

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 12:41 AM
The current tailspin, has finally affected the mainstream moderates. Since McD got here, some just seem to hate him, just to hate him, other defend every action, because to disparage anything Bronco is just wrong.
Most though, liked McD, thought he was young, smart, and could take this franchise back to the elite super bowl level we were at with Shanny 10+ years ago.
Throughout his stay here, I think most questioned some moves, but believed there was a bigger plan here, something that we were building. I think the current tailspin has really gotten to alot of us though. I am no longer so confident in McD, or the plan. Alot of Bronco fans are like that, its not just the doom and gloomers who are making snide McD comments, but even those of us who support him.

End of the day though, this team is just not very good, and I am not sure the future is that bright. The D is old and not so good, the O is younger, but still not so good.

I just fel like rambling there....

My question is who do you blame more for the slide?

McD the coach or McD on the player personnel side. Honestly not saying this team is a 2 win talent team, but its really not that great of a team. I think McD's drafting has hurt us more than his coaching has...
Its largely an academic question since obviously its still on McD, but I still think he can be a very good coach (maybe wishful thinking).
Thoughts?


Injuries to just about everyone on the team BUT Josh.

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 12:44 AM
now after reading this thread I'm going to vomit and go to bed. night all maybe the day tomorrow will be brighter and less hate filled.

Canmore
11-01-2010, 01:10 AM
The GM McD sucks more than the coach IMO...

I agree. His personnel moves have just stunk.

girler
11-01-2010, 01:26 AM
I think it's this hat.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/gallery/2010/08/20/mcdaniels_josh_gal_640.jpg

This one is obviously making him a ******* idiot. Just look at it.

Canmore
11-01-2010, 01:39 AM
I think it's this hat.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/gallery/2010/08/20/mcdaniels_josh_gal_640.jpg

This one is obviously making him a ******* idiot. Just look at it.

Whatever it is you hit the nail square on the head!

Broncos Mtnman
11-01-2010, 01:40 AM
I don't think it's any of his hats....

I think it's his hoodie.

:rofl:

dogfish
11-01-2010, 02:11 AM
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2912/duncecap.jpg (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/duncecap.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

ydave77
11-01-2010, 09:20 AM
now after reading this thread I'm going to vomit and go to bed. night all maybe the day tomorrow will be brighter and less hate filled.

Again I think the scary hing is, that its not just the "haters" who are questioning McD, its definitely the masses now. It used to be, in my opnion, a vocal anti-McD minority, but the losses keep coming, and I think the average fan is not feeling confident in McD any longer.
Which sucks, because I like being an optimist, just hard to do with this team right now.

When it comes down to it, in past 2 yrs we were loaded up with potentially (prior to draft day trades) 4 1st rders, and 3 second rders. Somehow though our cupboard seems barely stocked. The only young guys I see as potential game changers are Tebow (who nobody knows how he will develop), Demarius (flashes at times). And I am not holding my breath there. Aside from that Ayers seems like he will be good, but unspectacular. Down the list, I am not nearly as high on Cox as many, McBath gets hurt too much, Knowshon again definitevely not a game breaker. Just not many players to be excited about on this team.

I was very excited about the McD hire when it happened, the only negative I saw was getting Xanders (a cap guy), rather than a strong front office.
I still think McD the coach can be good/great, just this team (due to his own fault), doesnt have the skill necessary.

Nomad
11-01-2010, 09:29 AM
Again I think the scary hing is, that its not just the "haters" who are questioning McD, its definitely the masses now. It used to be, in my opnion, a vocal anti-McD minority, but the losses keep coming, and I think the average fan is not feeling confident in McD any longer.
Which sucks, because I like being an optimist, just hard to do with this team right now.

When it comes down to it, in past 2 yrs we were loaded up with potentially (prior to draft day trades) 4 1st rders, and 3 second rders. Somehow though our cupboard seems barely stocked. The only young guys I see as potential game changers are Tebow (who nobody knows how he will develop), Demarius (flashes at times). And I am not holding my breath there. Aside from that Ayers seems like he will be good, but unspectacular. Down the list, I am not nearly as high on Cox as many, McBath gets hurt too much, Knowshon again definitevely not a game breaker. Just not many players to be excited about on this team.

I was very excited about the McD hire when it happened, the only negative I saw was getting Xanders (a cap guy), rather than a strong front office.
I still think McD the coach can be good/great, just this team (due to his own fault), doesnt have the skill necessary.

I'm trying as hard as I can to remain optimistic and it's fading fast! Some here have a good idea that Bowlen should try and demote McDaniels to only HC and find a real GM and limit McDaniels overmanaging!! See how this works and if it doesn't then fire him!! What pisses me off is Bowlen sitting on his hands probably hiding in a corner and singing lalalalalalalalalala! This is what it seems to me.....at least jerry Jones has come out to apologize to the Cowboy fans. Hearing Bowlen do this would be a first step for me as far as Bowlen letting us know he is aware and concerned with the current situation!!

broncofaninfla
11-01-2010, 09:41 AM
I'm not impressed with Mcd as a coach because of the play calling and horrible game planning. No points in the first quarter in 7 games falls squarely on the head coach for piss poor game planning. As much as Mcd is failing in those areas Xanders is failing as a GM as well. If Denver does keep Mcd for another year, Xanders has to go.

We need a Big Tuna type to come in get this team back on track and Mcd needs some sort of advisor for game planning.

BigDaddyBronco
11-01-2010, 09:42 AM
I'm trying as hard as I can to remain optimistic and it's fading fast! Some here have a good idea that Bowlen should try and demote McDaniels to only HC and find a real GM and limit McDaniels overmanaging!! See how this works and if it doesn't then fire him!! What pisses me off is Bowlen sitting on his hands probably hiding in a corner and singing lalalalalalalalalala! This is what it seems to me.....at least jerry Jones has come out to apologize to the Cowboy fans. Hearing Bowlen do this would be a first step for me as far as Bowlen letting us know he is aware and concerned with the current situation!!
Bowlen usually doesn't say much, he kind of lets his guys do their thing. I still don't see Bowlen doing anything due to the CBA. Jerry Jones the other day was quoted saying that their wouldn't be much coaching changes during the season or after it in the NFL. It looks like they are hunkering down financially and saving money for the fight.

Broncolingus
11-01-2010, 09:46 AM
Overall,...off topic....my blame goes to Bowlen for not changing up the atmosphere in Dove Valley after firing Shanahan. Bring in a true GM to go with a true HC.

Very good point...

Also off-topic, but I agree with Don Banks that it certainly looks like if McD is going to be a successful NFL coach, then it's going to be with a second (or dare I say third) team...

...I guess in that sense, he would be just exactly like Belichick, eh?

Nomad
11-01-2010, 10:02 AM
Bowlen usually doesn't say much, he kind of lets his guys do their thing. I still don't see Bowlen doing anything due to the CBA. Jerry Jones the other day was quoted saying that their wouldn't be much coaching changes during the season or after it in the NFL. It looks like they are hunkering down financially and saving money for the fight.

Bowlen needs to change his ways then!! Even acknowledging the current situation we are in would be a step! IMO, him sitting back makes it seem he could care less! I know good company owner's let their superintendents/GF's/foreman's run the job but sometimes when things are not going as planned they do step in. Bowlen needs to change something, it may not be the HC but at least put the leash on him and just have him do HC duties (and that's all)!!

rationalfan
11-01-2010, 12:23 PM
funniest thing about this thread: almost all of these comments could have been written five months ago.

complaining/criticizing/bitching is cool. but i'm getting sick of reading the same sentiments about mcd/xanders/bowlen/tebow/whatever. is there any original thought that can put this season in perspective aside from keyboard gms and biased commentary that serves up the same stories?

all i know is i've got nothing.

ydave77
11-01-2010, 12:31 PM
funniest thing about this thread: almost all of these comments could have been written five months ago.

complaining/criticizing/bitching is cool. but i'm getting sick of reading the same sentiments about mcd/xanders/bowlen/tebow/whatever. is there any original thought that can put this season in perspective aside from keyboard gms and biased commentary that serves up the same stories?

all i know is i've got nothing.

Are you also sick of hearing about the oline/orton/the run D/knowshon?

If you want we can open a "David Bruton" only sub forum. I dont think many people have talked about him this yr...

I kid, I kid...mainly because there really isnt much else to add at this pt.

Ravage!!!
11-01-2010, 01:18 PM
funniest thing about this thread: almost all of these comments could have been written five months ago.

complaining/criticizing/bitching is cool. but i'm getting sick of reading the same sentiments about mcd/xanders/bowlen/tebow/whatever. is there any original thought that can put this season in perspective aside from keyboard gms and biased commentary that serves up the same stories?

all i know is i've got nothing.

Yeah.. it hurts to see, and say, that nothing has changed.

girler
11-01-2010, 02:05 PM
funniest thing about this thread: almost all of these comments could have been written five months ago.

complaining/criticizing/bitching is cool. but i'm getting sick of reading the same sentiments about mcd/xanders/bowlen/tebow/whatever. is there any original thought that can put this season in perspective aside from keyboard gms and biased commentary that serves up the same stories?

all i know is i've got nothing.

All I know is that 5 months ago, I had hope and kool-aid. Today I have none.

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 02:17 PM
Again I think the scary hing is, that its not just the "haters" who are questioning McD, its definitely the masses now. It used to be, in my opnion, a vocal anti-McD minority, but the losses keep coming, and I think the average fan is not feeling confident in McD any longer.
Which sucks, because I like being an optimist, just hard to do with this team right now.

When it comes down to it, in past 2 yrs we were loaded up with potentially (prior to draft day trades) 4 1st rders, and 3 second rders. Somehow though our cupboard seems barely stocked. The only young guys I see as potential game changers are Tebow (who nobody knows how he will develop), Demarius (flashes at times). And I am not holding my breath there. Aside from that Ayers seems like he will be good, but unspectacular. Down the list, I am not nearly as high on Cox as many, McBath gets hurt too much, Knowshon again definitevely not a game breaker. Just not many players to be excited about on this team.

I was very excited about the McD hire when it happened, the only negative I saw was getting Xanders (a cap guy), rather than a strong front office.
I still think McD the coach can be good/great, just this team (due to his own fault), doesnt have the skill necessary.

Good post overall.

I think many want to rail on Josh for as some have said dismantling a great offense or team depending on who is talking.

When in reality he got rid of ONE player of note from teh08 team that being Jay when it was clear he could not be mature enough to hold his water off the field.

the turth be known it was ONE player that did not make the leap in 09.

but then we found out that other players really did not want to be part of the origination by the actions, on and off the field.

so a few more player left after with the exception of one lousy years. those are BM, TS, HillIs, casey and hamilton.

it could be said even though BM had a great year he was not TEAM oriented. a primadonna whose locker room presence did not help the team become a TEAM.

now other than that who did he really get rid of? Leach, who IMO was a great LS but I think we have even upgraded that spot (excepting the OAK game).

sorry but I do not see a dismantle that everyone else seems to see.

I see upgrades at almost all of those spots talent wise and with time in grade we should be a better team soon.

Lonestar
11-01-2010, 02:22 PM
funniest thing about this thread: almost all of these comments could have been written five months ago.

complaining/criticizing/bitching is cool. but i'm getting sick of reading the same sentiments about mcd/xanders/bowlen/tebow/whatever. is there any original thought that can put this season in perspective aside from keyboard gms and biased commentary that serves up the same stories?

all i know is i've got nothing.


for the most part they were and the reason for this following post.



now after reading this thread I'm going to vomit and go to bed. night all maybe the day tomorrow will be brighter and less hate filled.



BTW how are the stats coming I think I missed them from last week.

rationalfan
11-01-2010, 03:50 PM
BTW how are the stats coming I think I missed them from last week.

????????????????????