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dogfish
10-28-2010, 12:28 PM
the former auburn RB was released by cleveland, and is currently on washington's practice squad. . . that's right, washington-- the team whose coaching staff knows exactly WTF they're doing with RBs. . .


RB James Davis is looking for his chance

Running back James Davis was eager for another opportunity after the Cleveland Browns released him earlier in the week.

On Wednesday, the Redskins signed Davis to the practice squad and released running back Jeremiah Johnson, whom they had signed Tuesday. "I'm just real happy to be in Washington," Davis said. "I'm just real excited to be here, man. I think it's a good system for me."

And there could be an opportunity for Davis to join the 53-man roster soon.

Washington had only running backs Ryan Torain and Keiland Williams available in Week 7 because Chad Simpson, who has been primarily a special teams contributor, injured his hamstring in practice last week and was sidelined for the 17-14 victory against Chicago at Soldier Field. The Redskins are preparing to face the Detroit Lions on Sunday at Ford Field, and they hope Simpson will be able to play this week.

But if Simpson's hamstring does not cooperate over the next few weeks and Davis quickly learns Coach Mike Shanahan's system, he could receive a promotion.

"I had a meeting with him [Shanahan] today and we talked about that, and it's always in the back of my head that you got a chance," Davis said. "He was telling me Torain, how he was on the practice squad and how he works his tail off and moves up. I mean, I look at guys like that, and I've definitely got an opportunity."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/running-backs/rb-james-davis-is-looking-for.html


Overview

Davis earned a second-round grade from the NFL Advisory Committee in 2007 after rushing for more than 3,000 yards and 36 touchdowns over his first three years at Clemson. But the two-time first-team All-ACC pick elected to return for his senior season, again showing a player's stock doesn't always increase by returning to school. He rushed for only 751 yards and 11 touchdowns in 2008; still, Davis flashed the speed, power and aggression to run over defenders to be a fine NFL back in his limited chances behind a struggling quarterback and offensive line. In the right system, he could contribute immediately.

Analysis

Positives: Tight skinned athlete with good overall musculature. Good all-around athleticism. Quick to the hole. Good lateral quickness to make defenders miss in the open field. Can stop and start to elude defenders and is a threat to gain big yardage every time he touches the ball. Not a bullish runner, but has good lower leg drive and is at his best when he gets significant carries. Flashes explosiveness and can run through tackles. Secure ball handler.

Negatives:

Characterized as the "Thunder" in Clemson's "Thunder and Lightning" combo of he and C.J. Spiller, but isn't necessarily a strong interior runner. Effective interior downhill runner and will bowl over the occasional unsuspecting defender, but lacks the explosive power to gain the tough yards after contact. Only marginal production as a receiver, but shows the hands and body control to be productive in this area. Lacked effort and technique as a pass blocker and really struggled in this area during the Senior Bowl. Missed most of the 2008 spring recovering from offseason shoulder surgery.

2008 Season

Ninth in ACC history in career rushing yards;has 49 career touchdowns, second-most in Clemson history (Travis Zachery (1998-01) had 50) … needs three touchdowns to tie the ACC record for career touchdowns (Wali Lundy (2002-05) of Virginia had 52) … already owns the Clemson career rushing touchdown record (47); the ACC record is 49 held by Ted Brown (N.C. State), so he is in range of that mark … has 14 career 100-yard rushing games and needs one to tie Raymond Priester's Clemson career record … Clemson is 13-1 when Davis totals 100 rushing yards in his career … fourth in the ACC in touchdowns per game; he has 11 in 12 games, including three against South Carolina in his last home game … two-time First-Team All-ACC pick (2006,07) … one of two active Tigers to be named a bowl game MVP; he was offensive MVP of the 2005 Champs Sports Bowl when Clemson defeated Colorado; he gained 150 yards, second-most by a Tiger in a bowl game … Davis and Priester both have 42 starts … offensive player-of-the-game by the coaches at Virginia … fourth in Tiger history in career all-purpose yards (4,309).

Fifth among active Division I players in rushing touchdowns and fifth in total touchdowns … has the sixth-most rushing yards among active Division I players … 13th among active players in career points (294) … leading Tiger rusher for the fourth consecutive year; he will become first Tiger in history to do that … has 725 rushing yards this year along with 123 receiving yards for 848 yards from scrimmage … has 51 career receptions, among the top-10 figures by a running back in school history … has two 100-yard rushing games this year, 107 yards against The Citadel and 126 yards against Maryland … had three touchdowns against both S.C. State and South Carolina … closed his home career in style with 24 carries for 91 yards and three touchdowns against the Gamecocks … had 18 carries for 65 yards at Virginia, as he took over the game in the fourth quarter when Clemson controlled the ball to win 13-3 … has started every game except the Alabama game this year; he has started 36 of the last 38 games … has had just two lost fumbles in 793 career touches … preseason candidate for the Doak Walker Award … has two career 1,000-yard rushing seasons; Davis, Priester, and Woodrow Dantzler are the only Tigers to do that … preseason first-team All-American according to Playboy … applied for the NFL draft in January of 2008, but withdrew his name a few days before the final deadline … invited to play in the Senior Bowl.

2007 Season

First-Team All-ACC selection in 2007 for the second consecutive year … first Tiger running back to be named First-Team All-ACC in consecutive years since Terry Allen (1987,88) … was Clemson's leading rusher with 1064 yards, the third straight year he had been the team's top rusher … first Tiger to lead the team in rushing three straight years since Raymond Priester did it from 1995-97; Davis is just the second Tiger to do it since 1969 … second in the ACC and 53rd in the nation in rushing with 81.8 yards per game … tied for fourth in total touchdowns (12) in the ACC, as he had 10 rushing and two receiving; those were the first two receiving touchdowns of his career … had a career-best five 100-yard rushing games in 2007, including three of the last six games … started the 2007 season off strong with a 102-yard game on 18 carries in a victory over #19 Florida State … had his big game at N.C. State when he had a season-high 166 yards on 24 carries; he received a helmet sticker from ESPN Football Final's Crew for that performance … scored a touchdown in each of the first four games of the 2007 season … received the coaches offensive player-of-the-game four times during the 2007 season, including against #19 Florida State, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, and Duke … had 129 rushing yards in a victory at Maryland; he was named ABC/Chevrolet Player-of-the-Game for that performance and also received a game ball from Head Coach Tommy Bowden; he had a career-high 29 rushing attempts in that contest … had 118 rushing yards the following week at Duke when he had a 70-yard touchdown run, the longest of his Tiger career … finished the regular season with 122 yards on 23 carries at South Carolina … has played 37 career games, missing only the 2005 Temple game during his freshman season … has started 25 of the last 26 games … has 37 receptions out of the backfield in his career, including 12 catches in 2007 … had two receiving touchdowns in 2007, including one at N.C. State and one against Central Michigan … fourth in the ACC in rushing yards as a freshman, third as a sophomore, and second as a junior.

2006 Season

One of 10 semi?nalists for the Doak Walker Award in 2006 … ?rst-team All-ACC running back, he gained 1,187 yards in 2006, sixth highest total in Clemson history … averaging 91.3 yards per game, 28th best in the nation and third best in the ACC … had a 5.85 rushing average, second best in Clemson history among Tigers who have gained 1000 yards in a season … only Terrence Flagler's 6.5 average is higher among 1000-yard backs … ranked even higher when it comes to scoring, his 17 touchdowns tied a Clemson single season record also held by Lester Brown in 1978 … also just one off tying the Clemson overall touchdown record of 18 held by Travis Zachery in 2000 … his 17 in 2006 were tied for ?fth best in league history … Davis ranked 17th in the nation in scoring … had his ?nest game against Georgia Tech when he had 216 yards rushing against the team from his hometown … he could hear the roar of the crowd from Bobby Dodd Stadium when he was growing up … that was the most rushing yards by a Clemson player since Raymond Priester had a record 263 against Duke in 1995 Davis was named National Offensive Player of the Week for his performance by the Walter Camp Foundation … .that was the most rushing yards in a game by an ACC player in 2006 … has 2066 career rushing yards … already 16th in Clemson history in rushing yards … joins Terry Allen as only Clemson players to reach 2,000 rushing yards by end of his sophomore year … has seven career 100-yard rushing games … had four 100-yard games as a freshman and three as a sophomore … has 26 career rushing touchdowns, ?rst among active ACC players … led the Clemson team in plays of 20 yards or more with 14, 12 rushes and two receptions … named Clemson's offensive player of the week by the Tiger coaches for his performance against North Carolina and Georgia Tech … started all 13 games in 2006 and has a streak of 15 straight starts over two seasons … a model of consistency early in the season, he gained between 87 and 95 yards in each of the ?rst four games of the year … had at least 87 yards in nine of the 13 games … showed his all-round abilities in the South Carolina game when he stripped the ball from South Carolina defensive end Nathan Peppers after Peppers had intercepted a pass … it saved a touchdown … had 102 yards receiving on four catches, including a 54-yard

catch at Florida State … had at least one touchdown in each of the ?rst ?ve games of 2006 and had a nine-game streak over two years … had four touchdowns in the win over North Carolina, ?rst Tiger to have four touchdowns in a game since Chad Jasmin against South Carolina in 2003 … had six games this year in which he had at least two touchdowns, including four in a row at one point … had three touchdowns in the win over Temple when he averaged 15 yards per rush … improved his yards per carry from 5.3 to 5.8 this year … improved his touchdowns total from nine to 17 and his yards per game from 80 to 91.3 … scored the game winning touchdown at Florida State with just eight seconds left on a tough one-yard run.

2005 Season

Fourth in the ACC in rushing (79.9); he was also 56th in the nation … first among freshmen in the ACC in rushing with his per-game average … seventh overall in all-purpose running with 93.7 yards per game … tied for fourth in the ACC in rushing touchdowns (9) … scored seven of his nine touchdowns in ACC games, tied for first in the ACC with Greg Carr of Florida State, another freshman … set the Clemson single-season freshman touchdown record … sported a 5.33-yards-per-carry figure, third in the ACC among players with at least 500 yards rushing and best in Clemson history for a freshman … fourth in receptions with 19 for 152 yards … had four 100-yard rushing games to establish a Clemson single-season record for a first-year freshman … had a 150-yard rushing game against Colorado, the second-highest rushing total in a bowl game by a Tiger … only running back to gain over 100 yards rushing against Colorado's defense; added two catches for 21 yards and 171 all-purpose yards to earn MVP honors … set three Tiger freshman records, including touchdowns (9), yards per rush (5.33), and all-purpose yards (1,031) … ACC Rookie-of-the-Year, the first Tiger to win the award since Anthony Simmons (1995) … second-team freshman All-American by Rivals.com and third-team by CollegeFootballNews.com … honorable mention freshman All-American by Sporting News.

First-team freshman All-ACC selection by Sporting News … honorable Mention All-ACC by the ACC Sportswriters Association … his 879 rushing yards were second-most in school history for a freshman, trailing only the 941 by Ronald Williams in 1990 … his 879 yards were the most by a Tiger since Woodrow Dantzler had 1,061 in 2001 … the 879 yards were the most by a Tiger running back since 2000 when Travis Zachery had 1,027 … Clemson's top rusher, fourth-leading receiver, and leader in all-purpose yardage on a per-game basis … two-time national freshman-of-the-week according to Rivals.com … three-time ACC Rookie-of-the-Week selection, more than any other ACC player; chosen after his performances against #17 Texas A&M, N.C. State, and #16 Florida State … named ACC Offensive Back-of-the-Week for his performance at #19 South Carolina when he rushed for 145 yards and a touchdown … his 143-yard effort at N.C. State, his 145 yards at South Carolina, and 150 yards in the bowl game were three of the top-seven performances by a first-year freshman in school history … played 366 snaps, most among Tiger first-year freshmen and third among all freshmen.

Clemson's offensive player-of-the-game by the coaches against #19 South Carolina and against Colorado in the Champs Sports Bowl … suffered a broken wrist at N.C. State on October 13; he missed the next game against Temple and played just one snap at Georgia Tech; averaged 5.6 yards per carry after returning from the injury; had to play the last four regular-season games with a cast on his left wrist; he was without the cast for the bowl game and posted a 150-yard rushing game … started six games, so he was considered a co-starter … teamed with Reggie Merriweather to give Clemson the first pair of 700-yard running backs since 1995 … had at least one touchdown in each of the last four games … had 1,031 all-purpose yards … Clemson's leading rusher in each of the first two games and each of the last three games; also the leader at N.C. State, so he was Clemson's top rusher in six games … led the team in runs of 10 yards or more (27) and 20 yards or more (10) … had a season-long 40-yard run against Colorado; it was also the longest run of the year against the Colorado defense … had a 33-yard run against Texas A&M in first game … named Clemson's offensive rookie-of-the-year by the coaches.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/564362

___________________________________


both buckhalter and maroney are as useless as a condom in a convent, and moreno has apparently sprained his uterus again. . . go get us a RB who can actually run the ball, josh-- you ****in' owe me one after the hillis fiasco, and missing out on shady mccoy. . . i bet slick and G got my back on this one. . .

Ravage!!!
10-28-2010, 12:47 PM
:lol: sprained his uterus :lol:

Its interesting. The reason this kid isn't on the Cleveland team, is probably because of Hillis. Now, he's waiting to get on the active roster in Washington because of Torain. Didn't we already have both those guys?

Jake Klug
10-28-2010, 01:00 PM
:lol: sprained his uterus :lol:

Its interesting. The reason this kid isn't on the Cleveland team, is probably because of Hillis. Now, he's waiting to get on the active roster in Washington because of Torain. Didn't we already have both those guys?

Please stop pointing this out. Every time I see this, I die a little bit inside.

silkamilkamonico
10-28-2010, 01:24 PM
the former auburn RB was released by cleveland, and is currently on washington's practice squad. . . that's right, washington-- the team whose coaching staff knows exactly WTF they're doing with RBs. . .

Those coaching staff's same RB's are basically garbage to average when they move on to other teams.

slim
10-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Those coaching staff's same RB's are basically garbage to average when they move on to other teams.

Exactly. They don't produce under any other system.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Those coaching staff's same RB's are basically garbage to average when they move on to other teams.


problem is...those coaches avrage backs are heads and tails better then any mcd has...in any offense

dogfish
10-28-2010, 02:06 PM
Those coaching staff's same RB's are basically garbage to average when they move on to other teams.


Exactly. They don't produce under any other system.

peyton hillis sez hi. . .


:wave:

UnderArmour
10-28-2010, 02:11 PM
Well obviously if Mike Shanahan has him he must be bad. What does Shanahan know about RBs? :rolleyes:

BroncoWave
10-28-2010, 02:12 PM
:lol: sprained his uterus :lol:

Its interesting. The reason this kid isn't on the Cleveland team, is probably because of Hillis. Now, he's waiting to get on the active roster in Washington because of Torain. Didn't we already have both those guys?

Oh really? We used to have Hillis and Torain? That has never been mentioned on this board before. Thanks for the heads up!

slim
10-28-2010, 02:13 PM
peyton hillis sez hi. . .


:wave:

Hillis and Portis are the only shanny RBs to have success in another system. At least those are the only two I can remember.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 02:20 PM
Hillis and Portis are the only shanny RBs to have success in another system. At least those are the only two I can remember.


well anderson was already old when he left...m bell did well and got a ring backing up in NO i think?...other then that though the issue is...mike never wasted a 12th overall pick on a back

its not like we have a bunch of high rnd shanny backs failing across the league...other then portis and tater...the rest were all undrafted or very late picks

I Eat Staples
10-28-2010, 02:25 PM
I'd take almost anyone over some of the HBs we have now, and I like James Davis.

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 02:27 PM
Although Im not thrilled with our RB situation, the Broncos dont need another one right now.

silkamilkamonico
10-28-2010, 02:37 PM
peyton hillis sez hi. . .


:wave:

For every Peyton Hillis, there's Olandis Gary, Mike Bell, Mike Anderson, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell, and Rueben Droughns.

To add on to Hillis, Shanahan himself even missed the boat on him initially, considering he had him as a FB, and only moved him to RB as a "last resort".

silkamilkamonico
10-28-2010, 02:39 PM
well anderson was already old when he left...m bell did well and got a ring backing up in NO i think?...other then that though the issue is...mike never wasted a 12th overall pick on a back

its not like we have a bunch of high rnd shanny backs failing across the league...other then portis and tater...the rest were all undrafted or very late picks

Or practice squad players, just like James Davis.

Next..

I Eat Staples
10-28-2010, 02:40 PM
For every Peyton Hillis, there's Olandis Gary, Mike Bell, Mike Anderson, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell, and Rueben Droughns.

To add on to Hillis, Shanahan himself even missed the boat on him initially, considering he had him as a FB, and only moved him to RB as a "last resort".

Love your avatar. :lol:

And to be fair, I see why people are upset over Hillis, but he was one of those fluke players that no one would have predicted would be good. I think trading a 4th round pick for Maroney was much worse than trading Hillis, because a smart talent evaluator would know Maroney sucks. The same couldn't have been said about Hillis.

silkamilkamonico
10-28-2010, 02:41 PM
Hillis and Portis are the only shanny RBs to have success in another system. At least those are the only two I can remember.

In retrospect, losing Portis really hurt. I love Bailey as much as the next guy, but losing Portis we lost the most explosive and dynamic player Shanahan ever had at RB, and we recieved Bailey and no dline pass rush.

Shanahan should have stuck with his offensive intuition on that one, IMHO.

silkamilkamonico
10-28-2010, 02:42 PM
Love your avatar. :lol:

And to be fair, I see why people are upset over Hillis, but he was one of those fluke players that no one would have predicted would be good. I think trading a 4th round pick for Maroney was much worse than trading Hillis, because a smart talent evaluator would know Maroney sucks. The same couldn't have been said about Hillis.

I agree. It's easy to look at how well hillis is doing right now and question, but this is a gu ythat even Shanahan himself missed on as a RB, considering he didn't move him to RB until we lost 6+ Rb's to injuries, or whatever it was.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 02:55 PM
Although Im not thrilled with our RB situation, the Broncos dont need another one right now.


we can see th truth in that by us being dead last in offensive rushing:lol:

Mike
10-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Until we either get a guy in who can effectively coach the o-line, change to a new scheme that works with our players, or new lineman (pick whichever one you think is the problem cause I don't know which it is)...I don't think bringing any back in will change anything.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 02:59 PM
For every Peyton Hillis, there's Olandis Gary, Mike Bell, Mike Anderson, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell, and Rueben Droughns.

To add on to Hillis, Shanahan himself even missed the boat on him initially, considering he had him as a FB, and only moved him to RB as a "last resort".


mike didnt miss on hillis...he drafted him to be a FB...in his offense just like the superbowl days...a hard nosed blocker, that can also run and catch passes out of the backfield

thts what he was drafted for...he turned out to be a nice rb when given the oppertunity

Jake Klug
10-28-2010, 03:01 PM
I agree. It's easy to look at how well hillis is doing right now and question, but this is a gu ythat even Shanahan himself missed on as a RB, considering he didn't move him to RB until we lost 6+ Rb's to injuries, or whatever it was.

Shanahan didnt miss on Hillis just like he didnt miss on Mike Anderson or Olandis Gary. Hillis got his chance due to injury and, like those other guys, produced.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 03:02 PM
Until we either get a guy in who can effectively coach the o-line, change to a new scheme that works with our players, or new lineman (pick whichever one you think is the problem cause I don't know which it is)...I don't think bringing any back in will change anything.


i disagree...i see no speed in moreno, moroney or buck...no busrt through the hole...with our slagging line the back must be quick..burst into the second level before the hole closes...that is not morenos game, nor maronys

give me a back that has super initial speed throught the hole and we will see an improvemnt

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 03:04 PM
we can see th truth in that by us being dead last in offensive rushing:lol:

The offensive line cannot run block. Getting another Rb isnt going to solve that.

Dreadnought
10-28-2010, 03:04 PM
mike didnt miss on hillis...he drafted him to be a FB...in his offense just like the superbowl days...a hard nosed blocker, that can also run and catch passes out of the backfield

thts what he was drafted for...he turned out to be a nice rb when given the oppertunity

Similar to Droughns. Droughns was a blocking FB/utility guy who got plugged in as a TB due to need. He later went on to play TB very well for the Browns, too.

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 03:06 PM
i disagree...i see no speed in moreno, moroney or buck...no busrt through the hole...with our slagging line the back must be quick..burst into the second level before the hole closes...that is not morenos game, nor maronys

give me a back that has super initial speed throught the hole and we will see an improvemnt

Moreno has no top end speed, but he is a quick Rb.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 03:06 PM
The offensive line cannot run block. Getting another Rb isnt going to solve that.


getting a back with the burst to hit the hole fast...will

that is not morenos M O

Jake Klug
10-28-2010, 03:07 PM
i disagree...i see no speed in moreno, moroney or buck...no busrt through the hole...with our slagging line the back must be quick..burst into the second level before the hole closes...that is not morenos game, nor maronys

give me a back that has super initial speed throught the hole and we will see an improvemnt

Yes. People sometimes complain about drafting a RB in the first round. Thats less of an issue than drafting a 4.6 RB in the first round. If your going to draft a RB in the first round, there shouldnt be that kind of a limitation.

And what makes it worse is Moreno is juke happy when he gets to the next level. Because he's juke happy, he's always losing speed and pursuit catches up with him. TD had long runs but you didnt see him losing speed a lot, unnecessarily at the next level.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 03:08 PM
Moreno has no top end speed, but he is a quick Rb.

he's a dancer, a shifty guy with limited speed...his short drills in the combine showed he was even slower than hillis...top end speed i can live without

our line produces quick holes that close fast..the back must have a quick burst to get through...that is not moreno

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 03:09 PM
Yes. People sometimes complain about drafting a RB in the first round. Thats less of an issue than drafting a 4.6 RB in the first round. If your going to draft a RB in the first round, there shouldnt be that kind of a limitation.

And what makes it worse is Moreno is juke happy when he gets to the next level. Because he's juke happy, he's always losing speed and pursuit catches up with him. TD had long runs but you didnt see him losing speed a lot, unnecessarily at the next level.

Quickness is more important than top end speed in the NFL. Moreno has very quick, but not fast.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 03:11 PM
Yes. People sometimes complain about drafting a RB in the first round. Thats less of an issue than drafting a 4.6 RB in the first round. If your going to draft a RB in the first round, there shouldnt be that kind of a limitation.

And what makes it worse is Moreno is juke happy when he gets to the next level. Because he's juke happy, he's always losing speed and pursuit catches up with him. TD had long runs but you didnt see him losing speed a lot, unnecessarily at the next level.


thats why davis was huge...differant scheme..but still when the hole opened TD was through it lightning fast and into the second level

i just dont see that burst in moreno

Jake Klug
10-28-2010, 03:12 PM
Quickness is more important than top end speed in the NFL. Moreno has very quick, but not fast.

I dont think quickness is more important. All of this stuff is decided by other factors.

arapaho2
10-28-2010, 03:14 PM
Quickness is more important than top end speed in the NFL. Moreno has very quick, but not fast.


no he's not...go compare morenos and hillis who outweighs him by 40 pounds..look at the short cone, the ten yard..those short drills are there to highlight the burst through the hole

hillis is quicker than moreno....moreno isnot quick, nor fast for a 215 pound back

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 03:24 PM
he's a dancer, a shifty guy with limited speed...his short drills in the combine showed he was even slower than hillis...top end speed i can live without

our line produces quick holes that close fast..the back must have a quick burst to get through...that is not moreno

2010 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.

Comment: Moreno was taken with the 12th pick in the first round of the 2009 draft and responded with a nice rookie season. He started nine games and gained 947 yards on 247 carries. He is a good-sized ball carrier with good quickness in and out of the hole. He is a one-cut-type of runner who does not spend a lot of time indecisively dancing around in the backfield. Moreno needs to add some bulk and strength in both his upper body as well as his legs to improve his ability to finish runs. However, he can run with balance and body control to break through arm tackles. He could do a better job of setting his blockers up and being patient as he waits for the hole to develop. Moreno has a lot of potential and should gradually see more playing time as he takes over the position.

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 03:29 PM
no he's not...go compare morenos and hillis who outweighs him by 40 pounds..look at the short cone, the ten yard..those short drills are there to highlight the burst through the hole

hillis is quicker than moreno....moreno isnot quick, nor fast for a 215 pound back

Moreno 3 cone drill: 6.84(http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1586)

Hillis 3 cone drill: 7.15
(http://www.40-yard-dash-times.com/peyton-hillis-40-yard-dash-time.html)

Moreno is a quick back. I can understand if you dont like the guy, Im not thrilled with him either. But he is a quick Rb.

Mike
10-28-2010, 03:35 PM
i disagree...i see no speed in moreno, moroney or buck...no busrt through the hole...with our slagging line the back must be quick..burst into the second level before the hole closes...that is not morenos game, nor maronys

give me a back that has super initial speed throught the hole and we will see an improvemnt

Maybe a slight improvement. But how many times have you seen the DL completely blow up the play? They get almost immediate penetration on almost every down. The DL does that alone and LBs are free to shoot gaps and most of the time the play is dead before it begins.

I agree that Denver could use a speedy back and I agree that outside of Moreno (who is serviceable at best even when healthy) Denver has crap at RB. But I think a lot of the problems are coming from the o-line. Either the coaching sucks, the scheme sucks, or our o-linemen suck...or a combination of them.

Ravage!!!
10-28-2010, 03:52 PM
peyton hillis sez hi. . .


:wave:

So does Clinton Portis

Ravage!!!
10-28-2010, 03:57 PM
Love your avatar. :lol:

And to be fair, I see why people are upset over Hillis, but he was one of those fluke players that no one would have predicted would be good. I think trading a 4th round pick for Maroney was much worse than trading Hillis, because a smart talent evaluator would know Maroney sucks. The same couldn't have been said about Hillis.

To be fair.... after watching him play in his first season as a Bronco, you could SeE that he didn't suck and it shouldn't have been a "fluke" to see what many Bronco fans saw when he was on the field.

Also... the reason he wasn't used as RB, because he was being used as FB. He wasn't getting the reps at TB... but when he did, he excelled. Who cares that the star from Arkansas was drafted as a FB and then later found to be a stud RB? He was found. Why ignore that?

If you watched Hillis in Arkansas, you wouldn't be surprised at his play on the field now.

Ravage!!!
10-28-2010, 03:59 PM
Maybe a slight improvement. But how many times have you seen the DL completely blow up the play? They get almost immediate penetration on almost every down. The DL does that alone and LBs are free to shoot gaps and most of the time the play is dead before it begins.

I agree that Denver could use a speedy back and I agree that outside of Moreno (who is serviceable at best even when healthy) Denver has crap at RB. But I think a lot of the problems are coming from the o-line. Either the coaching sucks, the scheme sucks, or our o-linemen suck...or a combination of them.

I agree. But I think we've seen enough of Moreno to firmly establish that he's nothing more than a "spell" back for someone else. He'll eventually be a good 2nd back for some team. But he's absolutely not a quality starter.

slim
10-28-2010, 04:07 PM
I think Tatum Bell is available.

NorCalBronco7
10-28-2010, 04:25 PM
I agree. But I think we've seen enough of Moreno to firmly establish that he's nothing more than a "spell" back for someone else. He'll eventually be a good 2nd back for some team. But he's absolutely not a quality starter.

Morenos career is too short to label him anything. He only has had 312 carries. Way to early to rush to judgment.

Northman
10-28-2010, 04:28 PM
I agree, go get this guy. But, he doesnt come from NE so......

Bosco
10-28-2010, 06:15 PM
Why would we go acquire another running back when we already have Moreno, Buckhalter and Maroney on the team? I understand you're looking for the end result of improving the running game but we've seen it proven pretty conclusively that the running backs aren't the issue. Signing another one would be like your car running out of gas and then changing the spark plugs to make it run.

Ravage!!!
10-28-2010, 09:22 PM
Morenos career is too short to label him anything. He only has had 312 carries. Way to early to rush to judgment.

I've seen a lot of rookies play. Moreno is just too slow to be a good starter. He'll make a good 2nd back, but will never be the kind of RB a team can lean on.

Obviously anyone can be wrong. But, I haven't seen a single thing that makes me believe his future is going to change.

Now... I saw things very early with Hillis.

Bosco
10-28-2010, 09:55 PM
Moreno is just too slow to be a good starter. This is factually incorrect. Moreno's been timed as fast as a mid 4.4, which is faster than Hillis, Shonn Greene, Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Toby Gerhart and comparable to guys like Mendenhall, Portis, Jonathan Stewart and the like.

jhildebrand
10-28-2010, 10:18 PM
This is factually incorrect. Moreno's been timed as fast as a mid 4.4, which is faster than Hillis, Shonn Greene, Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Toby Gerhart and comparable to guys like Mendenhall, Portis, Jonathan Stewart and the like.

Did he pull a hammy running that time? I have yet to see anything close to that on the runs he gets deep into the second level. There have been a handful of runs that many other pedestrian backs would have broke.

Don't get me wrong, I have been much more impressed with him this year and would like to see what he can do with better line play but that doesn't change the fact the guy cant stay on the field because he is injury prone.

jhildebrand
10-28-2010, 10:20 PM
Why would we go acquire another running back when we already have Moreno, Buckhalter and Maroney on the team? I understand you're looking for the end result of improving the running game but we've seen it proven pretty conclusively that the running backs aren't the issue. Signing another one would be like your car running out of gas and then changing the spark plugs to make it run.

It has been conclusively proven? :confused: How so?

Myself and others have mentioned, including McDaniels, that the lanes have been there and the holes have been there enough. Furthermore, to proclaim that 3 injured/hurt backs have "conclusively proven anything" smacks of desperation!

The only thing conclusive is Maroney wasn't worth a 4th and Belichick got another one over on McD.

dogfish
10-28-2010, 10:28 PM
okay, a couple of things. . .

first off, i should clarify that i want james davis based on his own merits, NOT because mike shanahan signed JD to the practice squad. . . davis is a guy that i liked in college and wanted us to draft that year-- the reason i'm posting this now is because he just became available-- it's not "oh, shanahan signed some RB to his PS, so that guy must be good". . .

so, i really don't think the fate of olandis gary or mike anderson has anything to do with how well davis does-- considering that he hasn't even succeeded in mike's scheme yet, we can't credit the system for his success. . . :D

i just mentioned shanahan because everyone knows he and bobby turner have an eye for later round RBs who can be productive at this level. . .

also. . . i'm pretty sure that NO ONE is going to contest that our run blocking has been atrocious. . . that's not debatable. . .

however, i never have and never will accept the belief that a RB's success is entirely dependent on the blocking-- that's bullshit, and it's an insult to all the great hearts that have excelled at the most physically punishing position in all of pro sports besides possibly direct combat like boxing and MMA. . . go watch walter payton running over lesser men and tell me it's all about the line. . .

i'm not trying to suggest that blocking isn't the primary problem, but let's face it-- when it's THIS bad, there's moooore than enough blame to go around and let eveybody get a nice fat chunk. . . and our shitty RBs have to handle their share. . . mcD himself said weeks ago that blocking wasn't the only problem, and backs missing reads and not finishing runs at the second level were contributing factors. . . and anyone who has watched maroney go into that ridiculous shuck-and-jive, sidestepping bullshit as soon as he gets through the (admittedly rare) hole understands exactly what josh meant. . . dude leaves yards on the field consistently, and drops catchable passes on top of it. . .

however, if they insist on keeping maroney to be the third down back, buckhalter is imminently replaceable-- he has 38 carries for 82 yards (2.2 YPC), and is more or less always dinged up. . . i said before the season that it was stupid to rely on an aging back with glass knees who hasn't topped 100 carries since his rookie year, and i most certainly continue to feel that way-- the more so the older he gets. . . you're just asking for trouble going with a player like that at a position that's inevitably going to see some action. . .

why not take a chance to potentially replace him with a guy that has young legs? are we going to miss his 2.2 YPC so badly that it ruins our playoff chances? :coffee:

we're 2-5, and have by far, far and away the worst running game i have ever seen-- i refuse to accept that there's just nothing that can be done to make it any better, and two ****ing yards per carry is all we can get this year. . . ****'s sake, i have to believe that a decisive, determined runner could at least grind out three. . . that shouldn't be setting the bar too high. . .

it's been ridiculously ugly to this point, and don't get me wrong-- i'm not under any delusion that adding a different back is going to make some dramatic change. . . but anything's better than just throwing up our hands and saying, "fine, we quit-- we'll just throw it fifty times every single game". . . yea, that's not good. . . given my utter disdain for the idea of either buckhalter or maroney being on our roster next season, i'm all for getting a head start on the process of filling those spots, particularly if doing so might even potentially give us a bit of a spark this year. . .

JD's a solid guy who's never fully gotten the chance to shine. . . it's worth taking a chance of getting a useful developmental player at no cost, and (although i know we won't) i wish we'd seize the opportunity before shanahan signs him to the big club and the chance slips by. . . we missed out big time on the chance to acquire cam wake for nothing, and it still bugs the hell out of me. . .

come on, anybody tell me what the real downside to this move would be. . . losing maroney or buckhalter??

:rofl:

dogfish
10-28-2010, 10:30 PM
Why would we go acquire another running back when we already have Moreno, Buckhalter and Maroney on the team?

i'm going to go ahead and assume that this was said in jest. . .



:huh:

Northman
10-28-2010, 10:33 PM
I understand you're looking for the end result of improving the running game but we've seen it proven pretty conclusively that the running backs aren't the issue.

Actually, thats not accurate. We've seen with the return of Moreno that Moreno actually had some good success. Most of our backfield sucks major ass.

Northman
10-28-2010, 10:34 PM
This is factually incorrect. Moreno's been timed as fast as a mid 4.4, which is faster than Hillis, Shonn Greene, Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Toby Gerhart and comparable to guys like Mendenhall, Portis, Jonathan Stewart and the like.

Yea, without pads.

dogfish
10-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Yea, without pads.

i'd also like to know if that time was recorded at UGA's pro day rather than a "neutral" site and timekeepers like at the combine-- where his official score was 4.5, according to draftscout.com. . .


NOT that i'm looking to bag on moreno or get the thread sidetracked, but he's never looked like a 4.4 guy with the pads on to me. . . i thought the kid showed a very solid burst in college, but i haven't seen more than a few flashes of it at this level-- i've always suspected that his perpetual knee/hamstring/ankle problems have slowed him down some, even if he did a good job of playing through it last year. . .

ultimately, his inability to stay on the field this year just makes me all the more anxious for us to find another capable back. . .

Jake Klug
10-28-2010, 11:11 PM
i'd also like to know if that time was recorded at UGA's pro day rather than a "neutral" site and timekeepers like at the combine-- where his official score was 4.5, according to draftscout.com. . .


NOT that i'm looking to bag on moreno or get the thread sidetracked, but he's never looked like a 4.4 guy with the pads on to me. . . i thought the kid showed a very solid burst in college, but i haven't seen more than a few flashes of it at this level-- i've always suspected that his perpetual knee/hamstring/ankle problems have slowed him down some, even if he did a good job of playing through it last year. . .

ultimately, his inability to stay on the field this year just makes me all the more anxious for us to find another capable back. . .

I thought he ran a 4.55 and a 4.63 at the combine and then a 4.61 at his pro day.

Bosco
10-28-2010, 11:19 PM
Actually, thats not accurate. We've seen with the return of Moreno that Moreno actually had some good success. Most of our backfield sucks major ass.

That's more of a glowing endorsement for Moreno than a knock on the other backs. Even when not 100% healthy he's shown an ability to sometimes get something out of nothing. Buckhalter and Moreno aren't capable of that.

Northman
10-28-2010, 11:27 PM
That's more of a glowing endorsement for Moreno than a knock on the other backs. Even when not 100% healthy he's shown an ability to sometimes get something out of nothing. Buckhalter and Moreno aren't capable of that.

Of course it is, Moreno is showing he can be good (although he is still learning) but Bucky is probably having injury and aging issues and Maroney has serious decision making issues when picking and running through lanes. The line has some problems but its the majority of it. Moreno's biggest problem is his youth.

arapaho2
10-29-2010, 12:02 PM
This is factually incorrect. Moreno's been timed as fast as a mid 4.4, which is faster than Hillis, Shonn Greene, Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Toby Gerhart and comparable to guys like Mendenhall, Portis, Jonathan Stewart and the like.


bull....moreno pro day time...4.57
.........hillis pro day time.......4.54

hillis.......... combine................PD
10 yard.........1.59...................1.53
KM................1.53...................1.58

20yrd............combine...............PD
hillis.................2.68.................2.64
KM...................2.69.................2.66

broad jump.
hillis....................9' 9"
KM......................9' 7"

so yes his LOW time is a 4.44...his high time is a 4.68...hillis high time is a 4.72...4 100th of a second slower

point is....KM doesnt have top end speed....doesnt have the power threw the hole and doesnt have that speed burst through the hole

hillis outweighs him by a good deal and is just as quick if not quicker...may be slower in the top speed by a small amount but not much


"http://www.youtube.com/v/_FtNxvpaK6I&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param

this is what im talking about..hillis sees the hole...an blasts through it...no dancing...no jukes..just hit it an go

Jake Klug
10-29-2010, 12:09 PM
okay, a couple of things. . .

first off, i should clarify that i want james davis based on his own merits, NOT because mike shanahan signed JD to the practice squad. . . davis is a guy that i liked in college and wanted us to draft that year-- the reason i'm posting this now is because he just became available-- it's not "oh, shanahan signed some RB to his PS, so that guy must be good". . .

so, i really don't think the fate of olandis gary or mike anderson has anything to do with how well davis does-- considering that he hasn't even succeeded in mike's scheme yet, we can't credit the system for his success. . . :D

i just mentioned shanahan because everyone knows he and bobby turner have an eye for later round RBs who can be productive at this level. . .

also. . . i'm pretty sure that NO ONE is going to contest that our run blocking has been atrocious. . . that's not debatable. . .

however, i never have and never will accept the belief that a RB's success is entirely dependent on the blocking-- that's bullshit, and it's an insult to all the great hearts that have excelled at the most physically punishing position in all of pro sports besides possibly direct combat like boxing and MMA. . . go watch walter payton running over lesser men and tell me it's all about the line. . .

i'm not trying to suggest that blocking isn't the primary problem, but let's face it-- when it's THIS bad, there's moooore than enough blame to go around and let eveybody get a nice fat chunk. . . and our shitty RBs have to handle their share. . . mcD himself said weeks ago that blocking wasn't the only problem, and backs missing reads and not finishing runs at the second level were contributing factors. . . and anyone who has watched maroney go into that ridiculous shuck-and-jive, sidestepping bullshit as soon as he gets through the (admittedly rare) hole understands exactly what josh meant. . . dude leaves yards on the field consistently, and drops catchable passes on top of it. . .

however, if they insist on keeping maroney to be the third down back, buckhalter is imminently replaceable-- he has 38 carries for 82 yards (2.2 YPC), and is more or less always dinged up. . . i said before the season that it was stupid to rely on an aging back with glass knees who hasn't topped 100 carries since his rookie year, and i most certainly continue to feel that way-- the more so the older he gets. . . you're just asking for trouble going with a player like that at a position that's inevitably going to see some action. . .

why not take a chance to potentially replace him with a guy that has young legs? are we going to miss his 2.2 YPC so badly that it ruins our playoff chances? :coffee:

we're 2-5, and have by far, far and away the worst running game i have ever seen-- i refuse to accept that there's just nothing that can be done to make it any better, and two ****ing yards per carry is all we can get this year. . . ****'s sake, i have to believe that a decisive, determined runner could at least grind out three. . . that shouldn't be setting the bar too high. . .

it's been ridiculously ugly to this point, and don't get me wrong-- i'm not under any delusion that adding a different back is going to make some dramatic change. . . but anything's better than just throwing up our hands and saying, "fine, we quit-- we'll just throw it fifty times every single game". . . yea, that's not good. . . given my utter disdain for the idea of either buckhalter or maroney being on our roster next season, i'm all for getting a head start on the process of filling those spots, particularly if doing so might even potentially give us a bit of a spark this year. . .

JD's a solid guy who's never fully gotten the chance to shine. . . it's worth taking a chance of getting a useful developmental player at no cost, and (although i know we won't) i wish we'd seize the opportunity before shanahan signs him to the big club and the chance slips by. . . we missed out big time on the chance to acquire cam wake for nothing, and it still bugs the hell out of me. . .

come on, anybody tell me what the real downside to this move would be. . . losing maroney or buckhalter??

:rofl:

I didnt even notice this. Youre dead on that its all because of the oline. If a RB is truly good, every once in a while he can create something thats not there. Not always but sometimes. This never happens with Moreno. Yards have to be gift wrapped for him. And even when he does get to the 2nd level, he ends up over juking a lot. He's not patient, he overjukes, he's not fast, he doesnt have a low center of gravity, and his pad level isnt always the best. His vision was supposed to be a strength but its not...but that could be because of a lack of patience.

Jake Klug
10-29-2010, 12:11 PM
bull....moreno pro day time...4.57
.........hillis pro day time.......4.54

hillis.......... combine................PD
10 yard.........1.59...................1.53
KM................1.53...................1.58

20yrd............combine...............PD
hillis.................2.68.................2.64
KM...................2.69.................2.66

broad jump.
hillis....................9' 9"
KM......................9' 7"

so yes his LOW time is a 4.44...his high time is a 4.68...hillis high time is a 4.72...4 100th of a second slower

point is....KM doesnt have top end speed....doesnt have the power threw the hole and doesnt have that speed burst through the hole

hillis outweighs him by a good deal and is just as quick if not quicker...may be slower in the top speed by a small amount but not much


"http://www.youtube.com/v/_FtNxvpaK6I&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param

this is what im talking about..hillis sees the hole...an blasts through it...no dancing...no jukes..just hit it an go

Wasnt Hillis around 250 when he was drafted since he thought he was being drafted as a fullback?

jhildebrand
10-29-2010, 12:23 PM
That's more of a glowing endorsement for Moreno than a knock on the other backs. Even when not 100% healthy he's shown an ability to sometimes get something out of nothing. Buckhalter and Moreno aren't capable of that.

I tend to agree that we are seeing just how much better he is than Maroney and Buck. It still doesn't change the fact this team blew a completely perfect 4th round pick.

One would think if you are rebuilding, you would be stockpiling picks not going after re-treads.

Gimpygod
10-29-2010, 12:28 PM
For every Peyton Hillis, there's Olandis Gary, Mike Bell, Mike Anderson, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell, and Rueben Droughns.

To add on to Hillis, Shanahan himself even missed the boat on him initially, considering he had him as a FB, and only moved him to RB as a "last resort".

Shanahan is good not magical he can't put his ear up to a running back's sack like a seashell and then announce them to be legitimate if he hears Rocky Mountain thunder. TD was playing special teams in the preseason, cannon fodder, the difference between McDaniels and Shanahan is that Shanahan will change his mind when the talent presents itself.

Jake Klug
10-29-2010, 12:32 PM
Shanahan is good not magical he can't put his ear up to a running back's sack like a seashell and then announce them to be legitimate if he hears Rocky Mountain thunder. TD was playing special teams in the preseason, cannon fodder, the difference between McDaniels and Shanahan is that Shanahan will change his mind when the talent presents itself.

Hilarious!!!

arapaho2
10-29-2010, 01:12 PM
Wasnt Hillis around 250 when he was drafted since he thought he was being drafted as a fullback?


thats my point...Hillis was a good deal bigger than moreno..and still is just as fast and quicker beind the line than the lighter moreno

Jake Klug
10-29-2010, 01:24 PM
thats my point...Hillis was a good deal bigger than moreno..and still is just as fast and quicker beind the line than the lighter moreno

Yeah, more specifically, wasnt there discussion at one point of Hillis dropping about 10 pounds once it was apparent he could run the ball? Thats just something I seem to remember.

Ravage!!!
10-29-2010, 02:14 PM
i i thought the kid showed a very solid burst in college, but i haven't seen more than a few flashes of it at this level-- i've always suspected that his perpetual knee/hamstring/ankle problems have slowed him down some, even if he did a good job of playing through it last year. . .

ultimately, his inability to stay on the field this year just makes me all the more anxious for us to find another capable back. . .

I think thats because in college, he was a better althlete and faster than most of the people he played against. Now, the DL are running as fast as the 4.6 speed he has.

TimTebow15MVP
10-29-2010, 11:17 PM
how about no.......