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Tom Nalen
10-25-2010, 11:34 AM
let's think about it. Our Defense and any scheme we ran just could not mask the fact that we had Dawkins, his backup, Goodman,a gimpy Champ, Ayers, and Dumervile missing. We had three rookies playing Corner Back who obviously were not ready. We were forced to freaking play Nate freaking Jones at starting safety. That guy could not even cover his own shadow.

I know a lot of you guys think that the team gave up. I just think that the Raiders studied the game film from Sunday and saw the holes and cracks in our battered Defense that the Jets could not figure out. As always, it is the second, not the first game where the backup comes in that he gets abused. Sort of like a sophomore slump.

Overall, it was one game and it is not like the Raiders took 2 victories from this and it is not like we lost 2 games. It was just one game.

This season just MIGHT be a lost cause if we do not get thees guys back healthy, but it crazy to think that with these guys, we are not an improved team.

With that said, GO Broncos:salute:

Northman
10-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Who knows, but if the report is true about trouble in the lockerroom i would say they probably did give up. Frankly, after watching how we played against the Jets i think they are better than what they showed against the Raiders. You just dont get hammered like that unless you've totally given up. John Lynch said a few years ago that the team seemd to have given up in a 41-3 (i think the score is correct) route by SD on us. Oakland is not as good as they showed against us and Dungy was right. We made them look like the Oregon Ducks out there. We are better than that!

MasterShake
10-25-2010, 11:41 AM
let's think about it. Our Defense and any scheme we ran just could not mask the fact that we had Dawkins, his backup, Goodman,a gimpy Champ, Ayers, and Dumervile missing. We had three rookies playing Corner Back who obviously were not ready. We were forced to freaking play Nate freaking Jones at starting safety. That guy could not even cover his own shadow.

I know a lot of you guys think that the team gave up. I just think that the Raiders studied the game film from Sunday and saw the holes and cracks in our battered Defense that the Jets could not figure out. As always, it is the second, not the first game where the backup comes in that he gets abused. Sort of like a sophomore slump.

Overall, it was one game and it is not like the Raiders took 2 victories from this and it is not like we lost 2 games. It was just one game.

This season just MIGHT be a lost cause if we do not get thees guys back healthy, but it crazy to think that with these guys, we are not an improved team.

With that said, GO Broncos:salute:

Its hard not to point to the injuries, but the real problem was going down 21 points in the first FIVE minutes. Your gameplan goes out the window then. It was like we could not do anything right, and the Raiders could do no wrong. Remember in the 3rd quarter after we scored on the opening drive, it looked like we had them stopped on a 3rd and 9 then *boom* 1st down on their way to score again.

Meanwhile, Orton makes two would be sacks miss, runs for a first down and *fumble*.

Like I said in another thread, chalk it up to Murphy's Law and call this an anomally game. No way the Raiders are that good, and no way we are that bad. A trip to a neutral field in London could not come at a better time. A win there and get healthy on the bye week. Try to get some key players back and lets see how the season turns out.

arapaho2
10-25-2010, 11:42 AM
let's think about it. Our Defense and any scheme we ran just could not mask the fact that we had Dawkins, his backup, Goodman,a gimpy Champ, Ayers, and Dumervile missing. We had three rookies playing Corner Back who obviously were not ready. We were forced to freaking play Nate freaking Jones at starting safety. That guy could not even cover his own shadow.

I know a lot of you guys think that the team gave up. I just think that the Raiders studied the game film from Sunday and saw the holes and cracks in our battered Defense that the Jets could not figure out. As always, it is the second, not the first game where the backup comes in that he gets abused. Sort of like a sophomore slump.

Overall, it was one game and it is not like the Raiders took 2 victories from this and it is not like we lost 2 games. It was just one game.

This season just MIGHT be a lost cause if we do not get thees guys back healthy, but it crazy to think that with these guys, we are not an improved team.

With that said, GO Broncos:salute:


thats an excuse...as a team with dawkins,ayers, and every other starter aside from doom..we are a terrible defensive team...without dawk we are just a little worse

the differance is nolan...wink running josh's scheme just plain sucks

rationalfan
10-25-2010, 11:44 AM
anyone else notice how seemingly every receiver had the bobbles yesterday? very odd. i don't think it was just the fear of being smacked by the raiders.

a positive? marcus thomas looked ok.

BigDaddyBronco
10-25-2010, 11:46 AM
anyone else notice how seemingly every receiver had the bobbles yesterday? very odd. i don't think it was just the fear of being smacked by the raiders.

a positive? marcus thomas looked ok.
I thought Moreno played hard.

It was wierd to see the bobbles. Syd'Quan on his punt return bobbled, had it, bobbled, had it, then bobbled out of bounds. It looked like the ball was slick or something.

Tom Nalen
10-25-2010, 11:51 AM
The scheme in which we ran yesterday was the same one we have been running the whole season. The main difference was that there was no Dawkins or Ayers beating the offensive linemen to the ball carrier. How many big plays were Ayers, Dawkins and Goodman a part of earlier in the season? This team is just not deep enough to cover all the holes we have on D.

BigDaddyBronco
10-25-2010, 11:56 AM
Green Bay's DLine is so decimated that they had an OLineman out there last night on some plays. They are not rolling over. We didn't roll over against the Jets. The Raiders beat-up OLine dominated the LOS yeasterday. Injuries hurt, but that isn't the only problem.

arapaho2
10-25-2010, 12:01 PM
The scheme in which we ran yesterday was the same one we have been running the whole season. The main difference was that there was no Dawkins or Ayers beating the offensive linemen to the ball carrier. How many big plays were Ayers, Dawkins and Goodman a part of earlier in the season? This team is just not deep enough to cover all the holes we have on D.


thats the problem...our defense sucked the whole season

two weeks ago we were already the 19th ranked total defense and 26th ranked def in scores allowed...we suck without nolan..plain and simple

and if the team isnt deep enough...whos fault is that?

topscribe
10-25-2010, 12:08 PM
Did anybody notice Haggan out there at the edge? It seemed that he was
crushed time and again by the Raider's tackle on the repeated sweeps to the
left. He showed an absolutely inability to shed blocks, and so the Raiders ran
roughshod, mostly around that side. It looked like Gene Upshaw and Art Shell
were back out there for the Raiders. But they weren't.

Haggan was, and that was a problem, IMO.

-----

Tom Nalen
10-25-2010, 12:11 PM
thats the problem...our defense sucked the whole season

two weeks ago we were already the 19th ranked total defense and 26th ranked def in scores allowed...we suck without nolan..plain and simple

and if the team isnt deep enough...whos fault is that?

I am not getting in the debate of this being McDaniels fault or not. If you actually look at the plays last game,you see a lot of plays that were there but our rookie free agent CB couldn't make the play.

Tom Nalen
10-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Did anybody notice Haggan out there at the edge? It seemed that he was
crushed time and again by the Raider's tackle on the repeated sweeps to the
left. He showed an absolutely inability to shed blocks, and so the Raiders ran
roughshod, mostly around that side. It looked like Gene Upshaw and Art Shell
were back out there for the Raiders. But they weren't.

Haggan was, and that was a problem, IMO.

-----

Exactly. Usually behind Haggan is an all-pro, run stuffing safety in Dawkins that covers the edge. It takes more than 1 game to adjust to these players sitting out.

arapaho2
10-25-2010, 12:32 PM
I am not getting in the debate of this being McDaniels fault or not. If you actually look at the plays last game,you see a lot of plays that were there but our rookie free agent CB couldn't make the play.


and again...who chose the rookie as the backup over seasoned players?

both hill and baily are backed by rookies and thats by joshes wish

topscribe
10-25-2010, 12:49 PM
and again...who chose the rookie as the backup over seasoned players?

both hill and baily are backed by rookies and thats by joshes wish

Yes, you make a good point, but that is really not what the OP is getting at.
He is trying to focus on what actually went on out on the field, if I understand
him properly.

-----

arapaho2
10-25-2010, 12:52 PM
Yes, you make a good point, but that is really not what the OP is getting at.
He is trying to focus on what actually went on out on the field, if I understand
him properly.

-----


yeah...he's trying to say we lost because we had injuries...as in excuse

good teams overcome injuries...good coaches build good depth...if we have no depth...thats not on the players is it?

and we sucked with ayers, with dawk and with hill...it wasnt like we just played bad defense because of key injuries...our defense has sucked from the moment josh fired nolan

TXBRONC
10-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Who knows, but if the report is true about trouble in the lockerroom i would say they probably did give up. Frankly, after watching how we played against the Jets i think they are better than what they showed against the Raiders. You just dont get hammered like that unless you've totally given up. John Lynch said a few years ago that the team seemd to have given up in a 41-3 (i think the score is correct) route by SD on us. Oakland is not as good as they showed against us and Dungy was right. We made them look like the Oregon Ducks out there. We are better than that!

Where did you hear that there maybe trouble in the locker room? That thought crossed my mind but I dismissed it because I it might be a little to early for that happen. But then again those things can happen at anytime.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Northman
10-25-2010, 01:01 PM
Where did you hear that there maybe trouble in the locker room? That thought crossed my mind but I dismissed it because I it might be a little to early for that happen. But then again those things can happen at anytime.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Obviously, nothing is substantiated but a few people heard this show and it was mentioned.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187715

topscribe
10-25-2010, 01:08 PM
yeah...he's trying to say we lost because we had injuries...as in excuse

good teams overcome injuries...good coaches build good depth...if we have no depth...thats not on the players is it?

and we sucked with ayers, with dawk and with hill...it wasnt like we just played bad defense because of key injuries...our defense has sucked from the moment josh fired nolan

Please get off the "excuse" kick. It seems every time someone tries to analyze
reasons, someone else comes along with charges of "excuse."

Tom is trying to analyze some of the reasons for the failure. We have covered,
ad nauseam, the coaches' culpability in this in other threads. That is not the
purpose of this thread, as I understand it.

I also understand that Tom is not using injuries or play on the field as the
reason for failure. It is my impression he is trying to discuss it as a factor.

-----

rcsodak
10-25-2010, 01:28 PM
yeah...he's trying to say we lost because we had injuries...as in excuse

good teams overcome injuries...good coaches build good depth...if we have no depth...thats not on the players is it?

and we sucked with ayers, with dawk and with hill...it wasnt like we just played bad defense because of key injuries...our defense has sucked from the moment josh fired nolan
....cuz their last 5games last year, NOBODY could run on them. NOLAN ROX!

...now.....back to reality.... :coffee:
ps. Nolan wasn't fired.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

BCJ
10-25-2010, 01:35 PM
We gave up 59 points to the Raiders. I dont care what injuries there are, you never can give up that many points. Our offense got the ball so many times since the Faiders had to kick off every 5 minutes and we still only managed two scores.

Bosco
10-25-2010, 01:47 PM
thats an excuse...

You know, I get the "injuries happen" stance and it's perfectly valid, but let's stop and think about this for a second. So far this season Josh McDaniels has had to deal with...

- His star LT hurting his knee in the offseason and barely being ready to go for the start of the season, and still not up to full speed.

- His starting running back pulling his hamstring in training camp, missing 3/4 of the preseason and then pulling his other hamstring a couple weeks into the season.

- His backup running back gets hurt later the same day and he too misses most of the preseason.

- His starting WOLB and reigning NFL sack leader is lost for the season.

- He turns around and acquires LenDale White, who is then lost for the season in the last preseason game.

- In that same game, his starting RT is lost for several weeks.

- He loses one of his starting corners a few weeks into the season.

- Against Baltimore he loses his other OLB, his starting free safety and the backup free safety. This results in us starting our dimeback at free safety and a free agent pickup who looks like a solid but unspectacular player as the primary pass rusher.

Seriously, just read that and stop and think about the issues McDaniels has had to deal with. I'm not saying that it makes losing acceptable or that Josh hasn't made mistakes, but this is the NFL and you can only compensate for so many injuries before it's a serious uphill battle.

Case in point, remember the 1999 Denver Broncos. We are arguably more snake bit than they were and that team only went 6-10 despite being the defending Super Bowl Champs with Mike Shanahan in his prime at the helm.

I Eat Staples
10-25-2010, 01:54 PM
thats an excuse...as a team with dawkins,ayers, and every other starter aside from doom..we are a terrible defensive team...without dawk we are just a little worse

the differance is nolan...wink running josh's scheme just plain sucks

This.

Yes, injuries suck, and we got hit hard and can't do anything about it. But even with our starters healthy, our defense just isn't good.

Bosco
10-25-2010, 02:05 PM
But even with our starters healthy, our defense just isn't good.

See, this is the problem. We don't know how good the defense would have been with the starters healthy.

Dumervil was lost in training camp, so Ayers shifted over and took over most of the pass rushing duties. That takes away from his run stopping ability, which has been looking pretty good. Then he goes down, so now Hunter is moved over to the weak side and he has to take over more pass rushing responsibility and we have to move Haggan outside to pick up the slack while Mays takes his job on the inside. Not to mention Dawkins and his backup both being injured in the same game so your safety net is almost completely toast.

It's the proverbial house of cards. You can build a really strong house but losing a few key pieces will screw you every time.

Tom Nalen
10-25-2010, 02:52 PM
Yeah top exactly.
For instance even if you look at the "vaunted" steelers defense, last year, missing Polamalu changed the whole complexion of that D and they failed to make the playoffs. Now let's remove Harrison, Woodley, and Mcfadden. That defense is no where near as dominating as it has been. I watched the raiders game at least two times now(as hard as that was) to see what exactly happened. And what I saw happened was inexperienced players making rookie mistakes on Defense.

Look at the reception over Vaughn...You do not think Goodman or even Cox makes a play on that ball? that stop might have given us the momentum we needed,maybe(who knows). Or take for instance the Titans game where Dawkins had not one, but two tackles on Vince Young. Replace Nate Jones with Dawkins and Young runs for 40 yards ending the Broncos chance at coming back. Cox learned his lesson against Manning and we are now seeing it on the field.

yes it is true that McDaniels chose these players. but no coach in the whole league expects their defense full of 6 backups to be plugged in and play with the same efficiency as the starters. there is a reason why they are the backups. Give these rookies and backups time and reps and the results will show on the field. We have already seen how time and seeing the field helped Cox and Ayers. Why do we all of a sudden expect Sydquan, Vaughn, and Hunter to be amazing in one game?

Since I cannot show you guys what i've recorded, take a look at the McFadden highlight film here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010102411/2010/REG7/raiders@broncos/watch#watch
See how #33, nate Jones is always late to McFadden, the play at 1:53 is very telling, Nate Jones is back pedaling as McFadden is running straight. there is no way that Jones can make any decent attempt at a tackle. Look at the whole video, you can see all of the big runs come from slow decision making and poor angles by these backups.

Lets look at the same play again. notice how Hunter gets completely eaten up by the block at 1:53. The titans ran on that side and Ayers shed the block and made the play on Chris Johnson to give us the ball back.

The only thing I am trying to say is that if you take difference makers out of a team, no matter how you spin it, the defense and offense suffer. Steelers in 09 couldn't be as aggressive with just one of their starters out in polamalu. Dawkins IMO, has that similar impact. Couple the loss of Dawkins with all the other injuries, you get a defense that needs time on the field to adjust and get better. And sadly, it might take a game or two.

Northman
10-25-2010, 02:59 PM
Yeah top exactly.
For instance even if you look at the "vaunted" steelers defense, last year, missing Polamalu changed the whole complexion of that D and they failed to make the playoffs. Now let's remove Harrison, Woodley, and Mcfadden. That defense is no where near as dominating as it has been. I watched the raiders game at least two times now(as hard as that was) to see what exactly happened. And what I saw happened was inexperienced players making rookie mistakes on Defense.

Look at the reception over Vaughn...You do not think Goodman or even Cox makes a play on that ball? that stop might have given us the momentum we needed,maybe(who knows). Or take for instance the Titans game where Dawkins had not one, but two tackles on Vince Young. Replace Nate Jones with Dawkins and Young runs for 40 yards ending the Broncos chance at coming back. Cox learned his lesson against Manning and we are now seeing it on the field.

yes it is true that McDaniels chose these players. but no coach in the whole league expects their defense full of 6 backups to be plugged in and play with the same efficiency as the starters. there is a reason why they are the backups. Give these rookies and backups time and reps and the results will show on the field. We have already seen how time and seeing the field helped Cox and Ayers. Why do we all of a sudden expect Sydquan, Vaughn, and Hunter to be amazing in one game?

Since I cannot show you guys what i've recorded, take a look at the McFadden highlight film here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010102411/2010/REG7/raiders@broncos/watch#watch
See how #33, nate Jones is always late to McFadden, the play at 1:53 is very telling, Nate Jones is back pedaling as McFadden is running straight. there is no way that Jones can make any decent attempt at a tackle. Look at the whole video, you can see all of the big runs come from slow decision making and poor angles by these backups.

Lets look at the same play again. notice how Hunter gets completely eaten up by the block at 1:53. The titans ran on that side and Ayers shed the block and made the play on Chris Johnson to give us the ball back.

The only thing I am trying to say is that if you take difference makers out of a team, no matter how you spin it, the defense and offense suffer. Steelers in 09 couldn't be as aggressive with just one of their starters out in polamalu. Dawkins IMO, has that similar impact. Couple the loss of Dawkins with all the other injuries, you get a defense that needs time on the field to adjust and get better. And sadly, it might take a game or two.

In some cases i can see that. But then, look at the Steelers this year without Big Ben and playing musical chairs with their QB's. They were still able to win ballgames and keep the team afloat. So while i agree that injuries do play a part i think its a bit much to put the entire onus on that. All teams deal with injuries but the ones who prepare and have added solid depth and solid draft picks are the ones that continue to be good. I just cant personally feel sorry for this guy because he didnt inherit a crappy team when he took over. The team had issues but issues that could of been solved and we would be in better shape now had he not made the moves he made. All this is of his own doing, so the brunt of the blame falls on his shoulders. He isnt paid to make excuses, he's paid to win football games.

I Eat Staples
10-25-2010, 03:05 PM
See, this is the problem. We don't know how good the defense would have been with the starters healthy.

Dumervil was lost in training camp, so Ayers shifted over and took over most of the pass rushing duties. That takes away from his run stopping ability, which has been looking pretty good. Then he goes down, so now Hunter is moved over to the weak side and he has to take over more pass rushing responsibility and we have to move Haggan outside to pick up the slack while Mays takes his job on the inside. Not to mention Dawkins and his backup both being injured in the same game so your safety net is almost completely toast.

It's the proverbial house of cards. You can build a really strong house but losing a few key pieces will screw you every time.

I'm not just talking about this game. Our defense hasn't been good all year. You can blame it on Dumervil all you want, but even if that's true, it just goes to show how bad our defense is if we can't get over the loss of one player.

You mentioned Haggan, Hunter, and Mays. All bad players. Ayers looked decent, but not great, not worth a first round pick. Our defensive line is awful. Kevin Vickerson starting? Ryan McBean? Bad players. Jamal Williams has been silent. Justin Banan has been completely underwhelming.

Our defense doesn't have much talent. Nolan got the most out of below-average players. Under Wink we look confused. Players lacking in talent and being confused is a dangerous combination.

broncobryce
10-25-2010, 03:08 PM
Yeah top exactly.
For instance even if you look at the "vaunted" steelers defense, last year, missing Polamalu changed the whole complexion of that D and they failed to make the playoffs. Now let's remove Harrison, Woodley, and Mcfadden. That defense is no where near as dominating as it has been. I watched the raiders game at least two times now(as hard as that was) to see what exactly happened. And what I saw happened was inexperienced players making rookie mistakes on Defense.

Look at the reception over Vaughn...You do not think Goodman or even Cox makes a play on that ball? that stop might have given us the momentum we needed,maybe(who knows). Or take for instance the Titans game where Dawkins had not one, but two tackles on Vince Young. Replace Nate Jones with Dawkins and Young runs for 40 yards ending the Broncos chance at coming back. Cox learned his lesson against Manning and we are now seeing it on the field.

yes it is true that McDaniels chose these players. but no coach in the whole league expects their defense full of 6 backups to be plugged in and play with the same efficiency as the starters. there is a reason why they are the backups. Give these rookies and backups time and reps and the results will show on the field. We have already seen how time and seeing the field helped Cox and Ayers. Why do we all of a sudden expect Sydquan, Vaughn, and Hunter to be amazing in one game?

Since I cannot show you guys what i've recorded, take a look at the McFadden highlight film here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010102411/2010/REG7/raiders@broncos/watch#watch
See how #33, nate Jones is always late to McFadden, the play at 1:53 is very telling, Nate Jones is back pedaling as McFadden is running straight. there is no way that Jones can make any decent attempt at a tackle. Look at the whole video, you can see all of the big runs come from slow decision making and poor angles by these backups.

Lets look at the same play again. notice how Hunter gets completely eaten up by the block at 1:53. The titans ran on that side and Ayers shed the block and made the play on Chris Johnson to give us the ball back.

The only thing I am trying to say is that if you take difference makers out of a team, no matter how you spin it, the defense and offense suffer. Steelers in 09 couldn't be as aggressive with just one of their starters out in polamalu. Dawkins IMO, has that similar impact. Couple the loss of Dawkins with all the other injuries, you get a defense that needs time on the field to adjust and get better. And sadly, it might take a game or two.

Thanks for the analysis, are you watching coaches tape?

topscribe
10-25-2010, 03:19 PM
Yeah top exactly.
For instance even if you look at the "vaunted" steelers defense, last year, missing Polamalu changed the whole complexion of that D and they failed to make the playoffs. Now let's remove Harrison, Woodley, and Mcfadden. That defense is no where near as dominating as it has been. I watched the raiders game at least two times now(as hard as that was) to see what exactly happened. And what I saw happened was inexperienced players making rookie mistakes on Defense.

Look at the reception over Vaughn...You do not think Goodman or even Cox makes a play on that ball? that stop might have given us the momentum we needed,maybe(who knows). Or take for instance the Titans game where Dawkins had not one, but two tackles on Vince Young. Replace Nate Jones with Dawkins and Young runs for 40 yards ending the Broncos chance at coming back. Cox learned his lesson against Manning and we are now seeing it on the field.

yes it is true that McDaniels chose these players. but no coach in the whole league expects their defense full of 6 backups to be plugged in and play with the same efficiency as the starters. there is a reason why they are the backups. Give these rookies and backups time and reps and the results will show on the field. We have already seen how time and seeing the field helped Cox and Ayers. Why do we all of a sudden expect Sydquan, Vaughn, and Hunter to be amazing in one game?

Since I cannot show you guys what i've recorded, take a look at the McFadden highlight film here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010102411/2010/REG7/raiders@broncos/watch#watch
See how #33, nate Jones is always late to McFadden, the play at 1:53 is very telling, Nate Jones is back pedaling as McFadden is running straight. there is no way that Jones can make any decent attempt at a tackle. Look at the whole video, you can see all of the big runs come from slow decision making and poor angles by these backups.

Lets look at the same play again. notice how Hunter gets completely eaten up by the block at 1:53. The titans ran on that side and Ayers shed the block and made the play on Chris Johnson to give us the ball back.

The only thing I am trying to say is that if you take difference makers out of a team, no matter how you spin it, the defense and offense suffer. Steelers in 09 couldn't be as aggressive with just one of their starters out in polamalu. Dawkins IMO, has that similar impact. Couple the loss of Dawkins with all the other injuries, you get a defense that needs time on the field to adjust and get better. And sadly, it might take a game or two.

While you are reviewing the high (low) lights, take notice of Haggan. He gets
blocked out of his mind on nearly every play! Think of what a difference it
would have made to the Broncos' defense, had the Broncos drafted McClain.

-----

Lancane
10-25-2010, 03:19 PM
The Jet's were without Revis, Pitoitua, Jenkins, Pace and several others defensively so far this year, and are still the 12th best defense in the league and are winning games...

So teams can win with backups and a good game plan defensively and a good offense.

Lancane
10-25-2010, 03:26 PM
While you are reviewing the high (low) lights, take notice of Haggan. He gets
blocked out of his mind on nearly every play! Think of what a difference it
would have made to the Broncos' defense, had the Broncos drafted McClain.

-----

Think about how good this team would be with Orton playing lights out, having Marshall as a number one receiver and Lloyd his number two, with Hillis as a powerback and Moreno as the speedback, with McLain or another first round defender and another in the second round.

But alas it is not so...shit in one hand and wish in the other! :shocked:

Tom Nalen
10-25-2010, 03:55 PM
While you are reviewing the high (low) lights, take notice of Haggan. He gets
blocked out of his mind on nearly every play! Think of what a difference it
would have made to the Broncos' defense, had the Broncos drafted McClain.

-----

I did notice that. He looks slow and unable to shed his blocks. I think our biggest priority, believe it or not in the draft, is a fast speedy linebacker ala Al Wilson that can have back side pursuit and have the speed to catch up to the ball carrier.

Bryce: I record the games and just watch them when I have time and my emotions are blocking me from seeing the plays develop.

TXBRONC
10-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Obviously, nothing is substantiated but a few people heard this show and it was mentioned.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187715

Oh. I saw the thread but I havent been in it.

Bosco
10-25-2010, 06:12 PM
You mentioned Haggan, Hunter, and Mays. All bad players. Ayers looked decent, but not great, not worth a first round pick. Our defensive line is awful. Kevin Vickerson starting? Ryan McBean? Bad players. Jamal Williams has been silent. Justin Banan has been completely underwhelming.

Why don't you tell us about Brandon Lloyd again?

jhildebrand
10-25-2010, 06:14 PM
The injury card wasn't played in the Jets loss. In fact, if anything, people pointed to it as progress proclaiming the outcome might have been different had a starter or two been in. Now we are supposed to accept the injuries are a major problem? :confused:

Sorry! I dont buy the excuses. Every team has injuries. This is pro football and McD has his roster and depth, or lack thereof, he chose.

Finally, if you wathed closely you would realize the Raiders ran the same type of running play (dive/Sweep) at Denver and continued to because Denver couldn't or wouldn't stop it. That speaks to coaching and adjustments or lack thereof.

Bosco
10-25-2010, 06:18 PM
Finally, if you wathed closely you would realize the Raiders ran the same type of running play (dive/Sweep) at Denver and continued to because Denver couldn't or wouldn't stop it. That speaks to coaching and adjustments or lack thereof.

Is it surprising that those are runs sent directly at the OLBs? The same ones we've been getting killed with since preseason?

jhildebrand
10-25-2010, 06:20 PM
Is it surprising that those are runs sent directly at the OLBs? The same ones we've been getting killed with since preseason?

Runs RIGHT AT HUNTER! They embarassed his ass. I said it during the Balt game-he sucks! That doesn't alleviate the coaching staff though!

Haggan has terrible gap control, too.

Our LB's are garabage and I include DJ in that. I see DJ make plays but I also see a lot of mental lapses/bad angles/poor play from the guy.

I would have no problem moving Champ and DJ and devoting as much of this draft to DL and LB's as possible!

claymore
10-25-2010, 06:23 PM
The Offense couldnt score points in trash time. Which was any time after the first 6 minutes. We could hardly muster a first down. Doom, Dawkins, and Ayers 1.5 sacks had nothing to do with that.

claymore
10-25-2010, 06:25 PM
Runs RIGHT AT HUNTER! They embarassed his ass. I said it during the Balt game-he sucks! That doesn't alleviate the coaching staff though!

Haggan has terrible gap control, too.

Our LB's are garabage and I include DJ in that. I see DJ make plays but I also see a lot of mental lapses/bad angles/poor play from the guy.

I would have no problem moving Champ and DJ and devoting as much of this draft to DL and LB's as possible!

5 First round picks in 2 years And we have Robert Ayers and like 2 sacks.

Bosco
10-25-2010, 06:27 PM
Runs RIGHT AT HUNTER! They embarassed his ass. I said it during the Balt game-he sucks! That doesn't alleviate the coaching staff though! That's what happens when your team is depleted by injuries. I don't know what more you could expect the coaching staff to do there as they can't just pull All-Pros out of their hats.

claymore
10-25-2010, 06:29 PM
That's what happens when your team is depleted by injuries. I don't know what more you could expect the coaching staff to do there as they can't just pull All-Pros out of their hats.

Keep the other teams offense off the field with your completley healthy offense.

jhildebrand
10-25-2010, 06:30 PM
5 First round picks in 2 years And we have Robert Ayers and like 2 sacks.

That Smith pick is what will haunt McD. We used a #1 and a 2nd to draft Alphonso only to ship him off after one season (I nver liked the pick but its hard to argue Alph shouldn't have been traded). That's two very good picks dedicated to 0 people on the roster.

Quinn is killing it too.

Tebow cost a ransome and only time will tell if it was worth it or not. However, McD's track record doesnt reflect well on what Tebow might be.

If we were truly rebuilding we would be using those picks. SD rebuilt in a couple of years with a hefty amount of #1's but more importantly high 2nd round picks.

jhildebrand
10-25-2010, 06:32 PM
That's what happens when your team is depleted by injuries. I don't know what more you could expect the coaching staff to do there as they can't just pull All-Pros out of their hats.

Well after the 3rd or 4th time, in one drive mind you, of seeing Hunter get eaten alive by the same play you either pull the guy aside on the sideline and help him out or you replace him and take your chances with someone else.

Or are you telling me Hunter played every down on D because he had no back up yesterday? :confused:

So many were certain Wink would do as well if not better than Nolan. How much longer before people admit their fault and recognize Nolan did a damn good job last year!

Ravage!!!
10-25-2010, 06:49 PM
How about the fact that our offense couldn't get a first down until 27 minutes into the game? Failing to get convert on 4th and 1. Dropping punts, kick-offs... hanging onto the ball. Thats just the first half.

None of which has anything to do with the injuries on defense.

Ravage!!!
10-25-2010, 06:52 PM
Why don't you tell us about Brandon Lloyd again?

Why don't you tell us how the Broncos have made more improvements than the Chiefs, and how the Broncos will SWEEP the Raiders (and Chiefs) with little effort. Tell us again. We all need a chuckle. :coffee:

jhildebrand
10-25-2010, 06:59 PM
Here's something to consider: Peyton Hillis fumbled a kickoff and then fumbled on the field being permanently labeled.

Hasn't DT done the same? I guess the guy is stupid and can't play a lick let alone hold onto the ball. We should ship his ass outta here.

topscribe
10-25-2010, 07:10 PM
Why don't you tell us how the Broncos have made more improvements than the Chiefs, and how the Broncos will SWEEP the Raiders (and Chiefs) with little effort. Tell us again. We all need a chuckle. :coffee:

I understand what you are saying, Rav, but I don't think I can manage a chuckle . . .

-----

I Eat Staples
10-25-2010, 09:25 PM
Why don't you tell us about Brandon Lloyd again?

First of all, let's see how he finishes the season hmm?

Second, what does Brandon Lloyd even have to do with anything? You want to constantly bring up one thing I was wrong about (and prematurely at that; let's see if he can do this for 16 games.), so how about you tell me how McD will prove me wrong again?

pnbronco
10-25-2010, 10:25 PM
I thought Moreno played hard.

It was wierd to see the bobbles. Syd'Quan on his punt return bobbled, had it, bobbled, had it, then bobbled out of bounds. It looked like the ball was slick or something.

At one point I thought the Raiders ball was all sticky and the Broncos soaked in grease. It was just the strangest game I've ever seen. I've seen DT jump in the air and with the tip of his fingers bring in a ball. Yesterday he could not hold on to anything. Then with Syd'Quan it was like a bad slap stick comedy. They were just so off. It was nice to see Moreno have some runs.

It does seem like the perfect time for them to leave the country, where they can focus on the game and each other..... Then get some rest with the bye week.

pnbronco
10-26-2010, 10:09 AM
I can't believe I didn't think of this before. A little over a month ago Kenny Mckinley killed himself. Grief is a funny thing, when you have so much to do you can push it to the side. When things slow down then it can sneak up and hit you like a ton of bricks.

After my Mom died I held it together for about 5 weeks, then the wheels came off my cart and I could not even get out of bed. The players are people that suffered a major loss when Kenny killed himself. The Colts came to town that week and that's when Goody was first hurt. Heck Champ was on crutches at the Boys and Girls Club benefit that Monday night when they first heard about it.

In the time period since Kenny the team has had 3 really tough losses where they played their hearts out. Also on Thurs they were told that a lock out was more than likely and that their health ins would be cancelled in March. Pile on the injuries on top of that and I believe we have a straw that broke the camels back. I'm actually sad that I forgot about Kenny so quickly and the impact that kind of experience has on a person.

jhildebrand
10-26-2010, 10:19 AM
They also voted to decertify this week. Demaurice Smith, it was reported, gave the Broncos very grim news on the potential for next season. The players were said to take it hard. I wonder if more wasnt made of Bowlen's position as the chair for tv contracts.

We can come up with anything. The fact is they came out to Invesco and that was about it.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-26-2010, 12:04 PM
There are only two possibilities for how bad we got thrashed on Sunday.
Either:

a) The team gave up

or

b) McDaniels got flat outcoached by Tom frickin' Cable.

Either way, it is unacceptable. I tend to think it was BOTH.

Northman
10-26-2010, 12:11 PM
I can't believe I didn't think of this before. A little over a month ago Kenny Mckinley killed himself. Grief is a funny thing, when you have so much to do you can push it to the side. When things slow down then it can sneak up and hit you like a ton of bricks.

After my Mom died I held it together for about 5 weeks, then the wheels came off my cart and I could not even get out of bed. The players are people that suffered a major loss when Kenny killed himself. The Colts came to town that week and that's when Goody was first hurt. Heck Champ was on crutches at the Boys and Girls Club benefit that Monday night when they first heard about it.

In the time period since Kenny the team has had 3 really tough losses where they played their hearts out. Also on Thurs they were told that a lock out was more than likely and that their health ins would be cancelled in March. Pile on the injuries on top of that and I believe we have a straw that broke the camels back. I'm actually sad that I forgot about Kenny so quickly and the impact that kind of experience has on a person.



Yet, ive seen guys like Brett Favre go out one day after his dad died and light up a team on Monday Night. Teams can either pack it in or they can go out and prove their worth and that their willing to fight. Sunday that team packed it in starting with the head coach.