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View Full Version : Did a little research on successful coaches



scott.475
10-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Okay, this is only quick and dirty, not really scientific, but I looked up the winning records for the first couple years of Shanny (Broncos, not Raiders), Holmgren, Fisher, Bellicheck, and Cowher, and Billick. In each case these guys had their new teams to at least 8-8 almost immediately, and on solid winning seasons by their second year. I am sure there could be an argument that losing coaches get fired before they can go on too long, but it would sure seem the most successful coaches in recent memory were certainly able to turn things around quickly, not 4 or 5 years down the road. None of the listed coaches had lopsided losing records in their first few years in the league, I think the worst was 7-9?

Just saying, I think this probably should have been the year we really saw things start to turn for the better, and it has been anything but.

Another thing, I should have mentioned it last week, but I could not believe all the miscommunication on defense. Last week was really bad, confusion almost from the beginning on what packages and personnel should be on the field, etc, today was, of course, atrocious. When the coaches can't even figure out how to get calls into the game, that has got to point to a staff failure somewhere along the line. Were there really only 9 guys on the field at one point? I didn't read that thread, just the title, but if true, wow.

Northman
10-24-2010, 10:43 PM
This will either go two ways in my eyes.

1) Tned mentioned a while back that he believes that McD will be a good coach but not for the Broncos. Meaning of course, he will take his bumps here and move on.

2) He will finish and collapse like the rest of the NE cronies who tried their hand at HC and failed. The one embarrassment for McD is he took over a team in better shape than the ones the Mangina, Weis, and Crennel did.

BigDaddyBronco
10-25-2010, 09:07 AM
Uh, both Bellicheck and Shanny got fired from their first job.

Dreadnought
10-25-2010, 09:15 AM
Uh, both Bellicheck and Shanny got fired from their first job.

Agreed, but somewhat different scenarios. Belichick earned his Browns firing completely, after coming in, blowing up the roster, dumping Bernie Kosar, and then racking up 4 of 5 losing seasons. Shanahan was fired by Al Davis after a short stretch mostly because Davis is a demented weirdo who will not tolerate an independent minded coach

turftoad
10-25-2010, 09:16 AM
Uh, both Bellicheck and Shanny got fired from their first job.

Well that pretty much says we need to can his ass now and move on. Let himm go be an OC somewhere and try to earn a HC again in the future.

Tired of him being our guinea pig.

BigDaddyBronco
10-25-2010, 09:36 AM
Well that pretty much says we need to can his ass now and move on. Let himm go be an OC somewhere and try to earn a HC again in the future.

Tired of him being our guinea pig.
And how have the Browns and Raiders faired since they made those decisions?

The Raiders after a few tries got another successful coach who they got rid of, went to a Super Bowl and got blown out, and then have had a decade of failure.

The Browns fired Bellichick, moved to Baltimore, had three dismal seasons under Marchibroda and then went 8-8 under Billick in 1999. They won it in 2000 and have had a decent but not spectacular record after that.


Meanwhile both Shanny and Belichick went on to their next team and became HOF coaches. Maybe the time and place isn't right for McDaniels, maybe he will never become a HOF coach, maybe he gets fired after the end of the year and never becomes a hC again. Who knows? Either way, I don't think there is a sure fire way of telling if a guy is a going to be a great coach or not, the stars have to align and he has to have a good framework of players, draft choices, etc. to make things work out.

Lonestar
10-25-2010, 09:51 AM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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BigDaddyBronco
10-25-2010, 09:58 AM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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We'll see if McDaniels keeps calling the same old plays week after week and see how the year turns out.

We already know the defense is shot until some guys come back.

This could be a 5-11 or 6-10 year.

rcsodak
10-25-2010, 10:00 AM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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Hey, thats MY line! Lol But you're more than welcome to it, Jr.
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turftoad
10-25-2010, 10:05 AM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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Much ado about nothing??? :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

TXBRONC
10-25-2010, 10:19 AM
Agreed, but somewhat different scenarios. Belichick earned his Browns firing completely, after coming in, blowing up the roster, dumping Bernie Kosar, and then racking up 4 of 5 losing seasons. Shanahan was fired by Al Davis after a short stretch mostly because Davis is a demented weirdo who will not tolerate an independent minded coach

I was just getting ready to say that.
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TXBRONC
10-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Much ado about nothing??? :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

I not trying to bait here but I really don't see how being 2-5 and getting blown out is much to do about nothing.
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Gimpygod
10-25-2010, 11:18 AM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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Okay wise one – he who knows the inner workings of Bolan's mind – what would cause you concern? Would we have to lose 157 to nothing against the 49ers in London? No, that wouldn't change your mind because everyone knows the super genius known as McDaniels specifically designed this team to have American character which will obviously not translate well to European games. I can't wait to hear your excuses, your rationalizing as to why this team is not horrible, fell apart and obviously lacks any type of competitive character and or talent or coaching prowess or strategic comprehension or tactical wherewithal. I'm loving this!

Apparently us McDaniels haters could just realistically see the draining of talent and bad decision-making and the rest of the old school "knowledgeable" guys were way off base. Again, I ask you specifically why the free pass for McDaniels who hasn't proving anything in this league beyond being a good quarterback coach when you had nothing but vitriol for the previous coach? All of your "knowledge" and "expertise" appear to be more empty than the pill bottles in Lindsay Lohan's medicine chest.

Northman
10-25-2010, 11:22 AM
When my favorite team continues to look like total ass it isnt "much ado about nothing". That mentality is set for losers. Perhaps that is what the team said before yesterday's game and hence part of the problem.

Lonestar
10-25-2010, 11:40 AM
Sorry Y'all are. Feeling so much pain. But it is a game and if anyone was dumb enuff to bet money on a rebuilding team well shame on you.

I just do not see why all the high eXpectations everyone knows or should that rebuilding teams with young talent are really inconsistent not even to mention missing up to 6 starters and some more walking wounded.

Much ado about nothing. I still see light at the end of the tunnel lots of talented players that are getting valuable exprience. Even if it is an ass whooping.
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KCL
10-25-2010, 11:59 AM
From a rival fan looking in...JR why is that no one can have an opinion about how bad McD is...I'm not saying he is...could care less what people on here think of him actually but every time someone post something negative about him you seem to think they are giving up on the team...don't mean to point you out and nothing personal but people can and should vent.

Haley's first season was a horrible one...I was sick of looking at him and wondered why in the hell did they hire him as their HC? That didn't mean I was giving up on the team...means I was sick of the way he was coaching and calling the plays

Obviously this season has started out better...they finally got some coordinators and some play makers..Haley doesn't deserve all the credit..I am happy with him now but I may get tired of him again.

As far as much ado about nothing...getting beaten like you all got yesterday and having the record you all have is cause for concern...anyway JMO and I know it doesn't mean anything cause I enjoyed the beatdown you all got...I'm suppose to.

turftoad
10-25-2010, 12:34 PM
Sorry Y'all are. Feeling so much pain. But it is a game and if anyone was dumb enuff to bet money on a rebuilding team well shame on you.

I just do not see why all the high eXpectations everyone knows or should that rebuilding teams with young talent are really inconsistent not even to mention missing up to 6 starters and some more walking wounded.

Much ado about nothing. I still see light at the end of the tunnel lots of talented players that are getting valuable exprience. Even if it is an ass whooping.
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Denver had talent on offense yet it was gutted. We did not need a total rebuild.
We needed some defensive help and could have used all those offensive draft picks on defensive talent and tweeked it with some decent FA's.

I for one an getting tired of all the excuses. This is a win NOW league.

arapaho2
10-25-2010, 12:56 PM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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ulike when shanny was leading a .500 team...then you wailed louder than any:lol:

Gimpygod
10-25-2010, 04:07 PM
Sorry Y'all are. Feeling so much pain. But it is a game and if anyone was dumb enuff to bet money on a rebuilding team well shame on you.

I just do not see why all the high eXpectations everyone knows or should that rebuilding teams with young talent are really inconsistent not even to mention missing up to 6 starters and some more walking wounded.

Much ado about nothing. I still see light at the end of the tunnel lots of talented players that are getting valuable exprience. Even if it is an ass whooping.
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this is not a team with young talent. That's what we have been trying to say. The talent is going elsewhere. The most talented people here are old as hell and even then they are not that talented. And even if they were talented the coaches not smart enough to utilize said talent. I'm asking you to specifically, again, say what it would take for you to be disappointed in McDaniels? Would he have to knock over a pharmacy? Or would you then say it was the pharmacist fault for having such juicy opiates on display… And also the cops fault for not preemptively arresting him.

I always had a niggling doubt as to whether or not you know what you're talking about but your current position shows reason and performance have nothing to do with your support of McDaniels.

Lonestar
10-25-2010, 04:39 PM
Denver had talent on offense yet it was gutted. We did not need a total rebuild.
We needed some defensive help and could have used all those offensive draft picks on defensive talent and tweeked it with some decent FA's.

I for one an getting tired of all the excuses. This is a win NOW league.

Which talent was that jay and BM? TS,

all of which could not get out of DEN fast enough. Hillis (maybe)

Sorry but I did not see all the talent y'all seem to think we had.

Maybe a win now league, but friends, romans and countrymen come hither and draw near, there is but one one winner each year. Tiime to figure that out ..

Some have said a 1 point loss is as bad and a 45 pointer.. Till yesterday that is now they are whining because another team came in and was on a roll.

It happens quit whining about it and move on.

some have said it is all W-L's well folks so far we have 5 L's when we get to 14 let me know.

Till then I'm gonna support my TEAM and STAFF , regardless of who they are I gave mikey Etal 5 years past his last ring winning.

Gonna do the same for Josh and his group. Don't like my posts put me on ignore.

Northman
10-25-2010, 04:41 PM
Don't like my posts put me on ignore.

Or vice versa. If you cant handle criticism than maybe stay out of the threads?

Dean
10-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Much ado about nothing.

Yet it is a good place to get your frustrations out.

I'll continue to be humored about it all.
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The team came in with poor preparation and attitude.

The most points ever scored in a quarter against the Broncos in a fifty year history. The most total points scored against us at home. A complete and total collapse in which players quit and yet were laughing on the sidelines. 4 and thirteen over the last 17 games. That's nothing????

Lonestar
10-25-2010, 05:02 PM
this is not a team with young talent. That's what we have been trying to say. The talent is going elsewhere. The most talented people here are old as hell and even then they are not that talented. And even if they were talented the coaches not smart enough to utilize said talent. I'm asking you to specifically, again, say what it would take for you to be disappointed in McDaniels? Would he have to knock over a pharmacy? Or would you then say it was the pharmacist fault for having such juicy opiates on display… And also the cops fault for not preemptively arresting him.

I always had a niggling doubt as to whether or not you know what you're talking about but your current position shows reason and performance have nothing to do with your support of McDaniels.

If you have not figured out yet this is a YOUNG team.



# Name Pos. Ht. Wt. Age Exp. College
58 Alexander, Kevin LB 6-4 265 23 R Clemson
68 Beadles, Zane OL 6-4 305 23 R Utah
32 Cox, Perrish CB 6-0 198 23 R Oklahoma State
87 Decker, Eric WR 6-3 220 23 R Minnesota
34 McCarthy, Kyle S 6-1 210 24 R Notre Dame
69 Olsen, Eric OL 6-3 305 22 R Notre Dame
15 Tebow, Tim QB 6-3 245 23 R Florida
88 Thomas, Demar WR 6-3 229 22 R Georgia Tech
22 Thompson, Syd' CB 5-9 191 23 R California
41 Vaughn, Cassius CB 5-11 195 22 R Mississippi
50 Walton, J.D. OL 6-3 305 23 R Baylor
75 Clark, Chris OL 6-5 315 25 1 Southern Mississippi
64 Daniels, Stanley OL6-4 320 25 1 Washington
56 Ayers, Robert LB 6-3 274 25 2 Tennessee
30 Bruton, David S 6-2 211 23 2 Notre Dame
4 Colquitt, Britton P 6-3 205 25 2 Tennessee
82 Gronkowski, Da TE 6-5 255 25 2 Maryland
31 McBath, Darcel S 6-1 198 24 2 Texas Tech
27 Moreno, Knows RB 5-11 210 23 2 Georgia
81 Quinn, Richard TE 6-4 255 24 2 North Carolina
78 Clady, Ryan OL 6-6 325 24 3 Boise State
46 Larsen, Spence FB 6-2 243 26 3 Arizona
51 Mays, Joe LB 5-11 246 25 3 North Dakota State
98 McBean, Ryan DL 6-5 297 26 3 Oklahoma State
19 Royal, Eddie WR 5-10 180 24 3 Virginia Tech
59 Woodyard, Wes LB 6-0 222 24 3 Kentucky
74 Harris, Ryan OL 6-5 300 25 4 Notre Dame
94 Moss, Jarvis LB 6-7 257 26 4 Florida
5 Prater, Matt K 5-10 187 26 4 Central Florida
9 Quinn, Brady QB 6-3 235 25 4 Notre Dame
79 Thomas, Marcu DL 6-3 316 25 4 Florida
52 Hunter, Jason LB 6-4 271 27 5 Appalachian State
73 Kuper, Chris OL 6-4 303 27 5 North Dakota
26 Maroney, Laure RB 5-11 220 25 5 Minnesota
99 Vickerson, Ke DL 6-5 321 27 5 Michigan State
91 Fields, Ronald DL 6-2 314 29 6 Mississippi State
8 Orton, Kyle QB 6-4 225 27 6 Purdue
33 Jones, Nate CB 5-10 185 28 7 Rutgers
55 Williams, D.J. LB 6-1 242 28 7 Miami (Fla.)
57 Haggan, Mario LB 6-3 267 30 8 Mississippi State
84 Lloyd, Brandon WR 6-0 194 29 8 Illinois
97 Bannan, Justin DL 6-3 310 31 9 Colorado
10 Gaffney, Jabar WR 6-2 200 29 9 Florida
21 Goodman, Andr CB 5-10 184 32 9 South Carolina
89 Graham, Daniel TE 6-3 257 31 9 Colorado
28 buckhalter, Correll RB 6-0 223 32 10 Nebraska
23 Hill, Renaldo S 5-11 205 31 10 Michigan State
71 Hochstein, Russ OL 6-4 305 33 10 Nebraska
66 Paxton, Lonie LS 6-2 265 32 11 Sacramento State
24 Bailey, Champ CB 6-0 192 32 12 Georgia
76 Williams, Jamal DL 6-3 348 34 13 Oklahoma State
20 Dawkins, Brian S 6-0 210 37 15 Clemson
Practice Squad
# Name Pos. Ht. Wt. Age Exp. College
35 Ball, Lance RB 5-9 220 25 2 Maryland
63 Byers, Jeff OL 6-3 301 25 R USC
17 Davis, Britt WR 6-3 205 24 1 Northern Illinois
83 Geer, Riar TE 6-4 250 23 R Colorado
86 Nalbone, John TE 0
13 Riley, Eron WR 0
54 Robinson, Lee LB 6-2 256 23 1 Alcorn State
96 Unrein, Mitch DL 0
Injured Reserve
# Name Pos. Ht. Wt. Age Exp. College
92 Dumervil, Elvis LB 5-11 248 26 5 Louisville
25 White, LenDale RB 6-1 235 25 5 USC
12 Willis, Matthew WR 6-0 190 26 3 UCLA
Reserve/Not With Team
# Name Pos. Ht. Wt. Age Exp. College
Garland, Ben DL 6-5 275 22 R Air Force


7 players over 10 years exprience one of which sat out all last season.

49 players with less than 10 years.

11 rookies
2 second year men
7 third year guys
4 4 year guys.
5 5 year

If I counted correctly 29 guys with less than 5 years experience. on the active roster

With those on the IR, PS squad averaging 22.2 years.

Open your hatred filled eyes and see that this team is rebuilding and YOUNG. the starting offense has a total of 57 years exprience not starting experience but years in the league.

the only starters that have extensive starting experience on this unit are Clady 3 (playing hurt), Kuper 5 (playing hurt), Orton 6th year but did not start a couple of them, Graham 9 years, gaffeny 9 none starting, lloyd 8 none starting. take those starting years out and the rest of the squad has 24 years total.

Sorry but I see good things coming down the line IF you don't, get the hell off my wagon, quit whining about my posts..

Lancane
10-25-2010, 05:19 PM
Which talent was that jay and BM? TS,

all of which could not get out of DEN fast enough. Hillis (maybe)

Sorry but I did not see all the talent y'all seem to think we had.

Maybe a win now league, but friends, romans and countrymen come hither and draw near, there is but one one winner each year. Tiime to figure that out ..

Some have said a 1 point loss is as bad and a 45 pointer.. Till yesterday that is now they are whining because another team came in and was on a roll.

It happens quit whining about it and move on.

some have said it is all W-L's well folks so far we have 5 L's when we get to 14 let me know.

Till then I'm gonna support my TEAM and STAFF , regardless of who they are I gave mikey Etal 5 years past his last ring winning.

Gonna do the same for Josh and his group. Don't like my posts put me on ignore.

Jr, you talk about whining but wouldn't you fit that category right now? Whining because so many don't agree with your point of view? You tell everyone else that 'this is this' or 'that is that' and then when people critique one point or another then you try and blast them, criticism comes with posting on a board...so man up and realize that we all have to take it, everyone is critics on here, not just about one thing or another, but about all things. We take your criticism and read your point of view, some agree and others don't. But don't get all hurt when someone does criticizes you or a post of yours or even one you agree on if you can not handle it in return.

You talk about faith in the team, is it not understandable that people's faith has been tested more for some then others with his actions, his lies, bad moves and all the other utter bullshit? You say that he did not get rid of talent? Torain, Hillis, Marshall, Cutler...many around the league believe and still believe they were high talent, and what talent do we have now? In all fairness who do we have that is showing signs of being a game changer that is not declining due to age? Dumervil? We replaced a gamebreaker wideout with a self admitted possession receiver who has one of the worst YAC in the league, no matter if he leads the league in catching and yardage, Moreno nearly had a 1,000 yards a season ago only to be placed behind a line that blocks how McDaniels wanted and are failing to open up holes long enough to get anywhere, not one receiver is a game changer, our defense is horrid and would likely still be even with Ayers and Dumervil in the lineup. We lost talent without really trying to add any. Thomas and Decker still have much to prove, so until next year or even their third year we have what we have!

There are really only three solid players at this point that could even be considered top-tier talent and that would be Clady, Williams and Dumervil, Bailey, J. Williams, Bannon and Dawkins are aged talent that are not at the top of their game and Bailey is likely gone after the season. We lack playmakers and the talent is questionable, what talent we had is mostly gone and were 4-15 in our last nineteen games...people are starting to take off the orange colored sunglasses realizing that believing is just not enough for even them.

turftoad
10-25-2010, 07:16 PM
Which talent was that jay and BM? TS,

all of which could not get out of DEN fast enough. Hillis (maybe)

Sorry but I did not see all the talent y'all seem to think we had.

Maybe a win now league, but friends, romans and countrymen come hither and draw near, there is but one one winner each year. Tiime to figure that out ..
Some have said a 1 point loss is as bad and a 45 pointer.. Till yesterday that is now they are whining because another team came in and was on a roll.

It happens quit whining about it and move on.

some have said it is all W-L's well folks so far we have 5 L's when we get to 14 let me know.

Till then I'm gonna support my TEAM and STAFF , regardless of who they are I gave mikey Etal 5 years past his last ring winning.

Gonna do the same for Josh and his group. Don't like my posts put me on ignore.

:blah::blah::blah: :banghead:

T.K.O.
10-25-2010, 08:01 PM
on the bright side we could be 2 games away from tied for 1st in the division !:elefant::beer:;)

Nomad
10-25-2010, 08:27 PM
on the bright side we could be 2 games away from tied for 1st in the division !:elefant::beer:;)

:lol: and we're tied with the best 2-5 team in the NFL....The San Diego Chargers!!:D

rationalfan
10-25-2010, 08:41 PM
i did a little research on message boards. apparently pat bowlen doesn't read them, doesn't care about them, doesn't realize they exist.

Watchthemiddle
10-25-2010, 10:34 PM
35 years old....first HC job.....you win some you lose some.

Anyone who has any cred in the history of society tried and failed......and went on to make history.

Northman
10-25-2010, 10:35 PM
35 years old....first HC job.....you win some you lose some.

Anyone who has any cred in the history of society tried and failed......and went on to make history.

Well, we are definitely losing no doubt about that.

Broncos Mtnman
10-25-2010, 10:43 PM
on the bright side we could be 2 games away from tied for 1st in the division !:elefant::beer:;)

Or, we could be tied for the division but lose out on tiebreakers because we didn't win our division games.

*see 2007 and 2008*

:coffee:

ikillz0mbies
10-25-2010, 10:44 PM
35 years old....first HC job.....you win some you lose some.

Anyone who has any cred in the history of society tried and failed......and went on to make history.

That's definitely the big down side of hiring a rookie head coach. He is going to take his lumps. Unfortunately for us, it's with the Broncos. And I have to say, those are some pretty big lumps. Big enough that could get his butt ousted out of town. If he succeeds, it probably won't be in Denver. And the Broncos do get a new HC, they're going to need to adjust to a new system once again. That's what sucks, the constant inconsistency.