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Jagsbch
10-19-2010, 02:18 PM
Who are the starters on the all time team?

Champ Bailey?
Ryan Clady?
Elvis Dumervil?
Demaryius Thomas?

dogfish
10-19-2010, 02:19 PM
champ. . .

OldschoolFreak
10-19-2010, 02:19 PM
Yes.

Champ.

Northman
10-19-2010, 02:19 PM
Bailey

SR
10-19-2010, 02:20 PM
Champ.

broncofaninfla
10-19-2010, 02:20 PM
Only Champ IMO

OldschoolFreak
10-19-2010, 02:21 PM
Too early to tell for everyone else. If Clady can string together 10 years at his current level of play, then there's another.

As for DT, are you joking or what? How could anyone possibly even speculate about something like that after 5 games?

Northman
10-19-2010, 02:21 PM
Im just surprised Tebow wasnt listed. But thankful at the same time. lmao

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 02:21 PM
Agreed. Bailey is the only one... currently. Clady, DT, Dumervil and Ayers (among some others) could develop into one of those but it's just too early in their careers to tell.

Who would back up Elway on that all time Broncos team?

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 02:23 PM
Too early to tell for everyone else. If Clady can string together 10 years at his current level of play, then there's another.

As for DT, are you joking or what? How could anyone possibly even speculate about something like that after 5 games?

I wonder how much Jags knows about the Broncos pre-Tebow?

broncofaninfla
10-19-2010, 02:23 PM
Who would back up Elway on that all time Broncos team?

Craig Morton maybe?

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 02:24 PM
Craig Morton maybe?

I'd probably say the other retired number - Frank Tripuka (who didn't know his number was retired until Elway's was retired. :laugh: )

pnbronco
10-19-2010, 02:27 PM
Champ no doubt.

Clady maybe, but it's too early to tell.

Jagsbch
10-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Too early to tell for everyone else. If Clady can string together 10 years at his current level of play, then there's another.

As for DT, are you joking or what? How could anyone possibly even speculate about something like that after 5 games?

I'm not joking, the 3 other positions besides Champ are the ones I am most curious about. This is why I felt obliged to at least list the player with the most potential to be starting on the team.

I mean with the exception of Bailey, all these players are really young, and DT has showed exceptional promise...

If not DT then who are your WR starters?

If not Clady at LT then who?

If not Doom at OLB then who?

dogfish
10-19-2010, 02:35 PM
I'm not joking, the 3 other positions besides Champ are the ones I am most curious about. This is why I felt obliged to at least list the player with the most potential to be starting on the team.

I mean with the exception of Bailey, all these players are really young, and DT has showed exceptional promise...

If not DT then who are your WR starters?

If not Clady at LT then who?

If not Doom at OLB then who?

well, gary zimmerman did go into the hall of fame as a bronco, so he might be the left tackle. . . ;)


karl mecklenburg and simon fletcher at OLB. . .

broncobryce
10-19-2010, 02:44 PM
Tim tebow.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Ravage!!!
10-19-2010, 02:49 PM
All time Broncos. Are we talking Ring of Fame?

If so, I don't think there is a player on the roster that is a future RoF player.

If you are talking about "best player to ever wear the uniform at their position".... then Champ.

OldschoolFreak
10-19-2010, 02:55 PM
well, gary zimmerman did go into the hall of fame as a bronco, so he might be the left tackle. . . ;)


karl mecklenburg and simon fletcher at OLB. . .

Agreed. And at WR, Rod Smith.

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm not joking, the 3 other positions besides Champ are the ones I am most curious about. This is why I felt obliged to at least list the player with the most potential to be starting on the team.

I mean with the exception of Bailey, all these players are really young, and DT has showed exceptional promise...

If not DT then who are your WR starters?

If not Clady at LT then who?

If not Doom at OLB then who?

Oh my dear lord! If you even have to ask that question you need to go do some research son.

For an All-Time Broncos team? On defense just about anyone from the Orange Crush would start. For offense, consider just about anyone from the Super Bowl years would be on the team.

There's a few from prior that would be on the team that didn't participate in either era.

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 03:21 PM
Tim tebow.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Without a doubt! Although he may have to do a little more work to cement his place ahead of Elway.

BCJ
10-19-2010, 03:21 PM
I'm not joking, the 3 other positions besides Champ are the ones I am most curious about. This is why I felt obliged to at least list the player with the most potential to be starting on the team.

I mean with the exception of Bailey, all these players are really young, and DT has showed exceptional promise...

If not DT then who are your WR starters?

If not Clady at LT then who?

If not Doom at OLB then who?

how long have you been a Broncos fan? We are rich in Linebackers and OL from the 70s on to now. Why would u even list DT as a All Timer as he has 1/3 season played? If this thread was for a lame attention, you earned it. There is a thing called google to research those lost players you are currently looking to replace Clady as your All Timer. You make it sound like we have been a franchise for 5 years. Know your history son. Arent these lame threads found at the Broncos official website?

Tom Nalen
10-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Imma just do a list:

LT: Gary Zimmerman
LG: Mark Schlereth
C:Tom Nalen
RG: Dan Neil
RT:
QB: Elway
RB: Davis
FB: Griffith
WR: Rod Smith
WR: Mccafery
TE:Sharpe

CB: Bailey
Safety: Atwater
LB: Gradishar
LB: Jackson
LB: Al Wilson

SM19
10-19-2010, 03:35 PM
well, gary zimmerman did go into the hall of fame as a bronco, so he might be the left tackle. . . ;)


karl mecklenburg and simon fletcher at OLB. . .

Agreed. I'd think Rod Smith and Lionel Taylor would be the starters at WR, and there's no reason yet to expect Thomas will beat out either of them.

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Louis Wright is our other CB and Dennis Smith the other safety (Dawk & Lynch would have to settle for backup, unfortunately.) I'd argue for Floyd Little as the RB, yes ahead of TD.

jhildebrand
10-19-2010, 03:59 PM
Who are the starters on the all time team?

Champ Bailey?
Ryan Clady?
Elvis Dumervil?
Demaryius Thomas?

Tim Tebow will be going into the ring of fame this weekend. There will be a special half time show in his honor.

Tom Nalen
10-19-2010, 04:01 PM
Tim Tebow will be going into the ring of fame this weekend. There will be a special half time show in his honor.

I think the half time show is going to be called "Denvers only legit rushing TD."

jhildebrand
10-19-2010, 04:07 PM
I think the half time show is going to be called "Denvers only legit rushing TD."

How'd you get the inside information? :D

Also, is Tony Jones not the best RT that has played for this team?

Ravage!!!
10-19-2010, 04:13 PM
Louis Wright is our other CB and Dennis Smith the other safety (Dawk & Lynch would have to settle for backup, unfortunately.) I'd argue for Floyd Little as the RB, yes ahead of TD.

It would be a tough one... not saying Floyd wasn't great, because he was. But I'm not sure who was really better. Although, its nice to have the discussion about two Broncos! :beer:

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 04:40 PM
It would be a tough one... not saying Floyd wasn't great, because he was. But I'm not sure who was really better. Although, its nice to have the discussion about two Broncos! :beer:

And would require a different thread. Maybe stable that discussion for the offseason?

elsid13
10-19-2010, 04:42 PM
It would be a tough one... not saying Floyd wasn't great, because he was. But I'm not sure who was really better. Although, its nice to have the discussion about two Broncos! :beer:

It a two back rotating systems thus the problem is solved. I can not believe that T-bone isn't getting any love for RT, man was a beast for us.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
10-19-2010, 04:44 PM
Imma just do a list:

LT: Gary Zimmerman
LG: Mark Schlereth
C:Tom Nalen
RG: Dan Neil
RT:
QB: Elway
RB: Davis
FB: Griffith
WR: Rod Smith
WR: Mccafery
TE:Sharpe

CB: Bailey
Safety: Atwater
LB: Gradishar
LB: Jackson
LB: Al Wilson

Man do I miss Al Wilson... wish he could have gone out in a different way...

Jagsbch
10-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Tom Nalen

LT: Gary Zimmerman
LG: Mark Schlereth
C:Tom Nalen
RG: Dan Neil
RT:
QB: Elway
RB: Davis
FB: Griffith
WR: Rod Smith
WR: Ed McCaffrey
TE:Sharpe

CB: Bailey
Safety: Atwater
LB: Gradishar
LB: Jackson
LB: Al Wilson

The Glue Factory
CB: Louis Wright
Safety: Dennis Smith
RB Floyd Little


Thanks for playing, now we are still missing a FB and a defensive line.
A LB too I reckon wouldn't hurt considering the Orange Crush was a 3-4...

dogfish
10-19-2010, 05:41 PM
Also, is Tony Jones not the best RT that has played for this team?

i would say yes, but i have to admit that i really don't remember many of the linemen from before the super bowl era. . . too young to pay attention to the guys that don't get mentioned on TV, and that was pre-internets, at least for me. . . but he's the best i can remember. . .

jags, you missed howard griffith at fullback. . . randy gradishar at middle linebacker, and either al wilson or tom jackson if you want four 'backers. . . tombstone rich jackson and trevor pryce would be the defensive tackles, IMO-- not sure about ends. . . rulon jones maybe? somebody help me out here. . .

elsid13
10-19-2010, 05:45 PM
i would say yes, but i have to admit that i really don't remember many of the linemen from before the super bowl era. . . too young to pay attention to the guys that don't get mentioned on TV, and that was pre-internets, at least for me. . . but he's the best i can remember. . .

jags, you missed howard griffith at fullback. . . randy gradishar at middle linebacker, and either al wilson or tom jackson if you want four 'backers. . . tombstone rich jackson and trevor pryce would be the defensive tackles, IMO-- not sure about ends. . . rulon jones maybe? somebody help me out here. . .

Simon Fletcher and Kragan (NT). Also Vance Johnson as the 3rd WR with Bishop pushing for time at RG spot.

Ravage!!!
10-19-2010, 05:45 PM
i would say yes, but i have to admit that i really don't remember many of the linemen from before the super bowl era. . . too young to pay attention to the guys that don't get mentioned on TV, and that was pre-internets, at least for me. . . but he's the best i can remember. . .

jags, you missed howard griffith at fullback. . . randy gradishar at middle linebacker, and either al wilson or tom jackson if you want four 'backers. . . tombstone rich jackson and trevor pryce would be the defensive tackles, IMO-- not sure about ends. . . rulon jones maybe? somebody help me out here. . .

Rulon JOnes and Karl Mech, would be my choices

broncofaninfla
10-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Claudie Minor was the best RT for Denver IMO

Jagsbch
10-19-2010, 06:36 PM
Tom Nalen

LT: Gary Zimmerman
LG: Mark Schlereth
C:Tom Nalen
RG: Dan Neil
RT:
QB: Elway
RB: Davis
FB: Griffith
WR: Rod Smith
WR: Ed McCaffrey
TE:Sharpe

CB: Bailey
Safety: Atwater
LB: Gradishar
LB: Jackson
LB: Al Wilson

The Glue Factory
CB: Louis Wright
Safety: Dennis Smith
RB Floyd Little

jhildebrand
RT: Tony Jones


dogfish
LB: Randy Gradishar
LB: Al Wilson
LB: Tom Jackson

DT: Tombstone Rich Jackson
DT: Trevor Pryce

elsid13LG: Keith Bishop
NT: Simon Fletcher
NT: Kragan
WR: Vance Johnson

Ravage!!!
DE: Rulon Jones
LB: Karl Mecklenburg 6 Pro Bowls.79.5 sacks 2nd highest total in franchise history

broncofaninfla
RT: Claudie Minor

NightTrainLayne
10-19-2010, 06:56 PM
I love Ed McAffrey, but I'm not sure he makes it on the all-time team.

Maybe Vance Johnson, or maybe someone from the early years that I can't think of off the top of my head.

McAffrey was one HELL of a blocker down-field though. . .and caught freaking everything that entered his zip code. I'll never forget being so upset the morning of Sept. 11 because he broke his leg in the MNF game the night before at the grand opening of the new stadium. :tsk:

Jagsbch
10-19-2010, 07:08 PM
Now that we have a decent list, time to share an entire team I found while surfing Google...

I find it funny how such an exhaustive list could have missed Floyd Little and Ed Macafferty though.


I figure what fun in just pasting it, when we can have some of the old school folk in here have some fun. I had a feeling this forum would have something to add...

Good show...

I saw the movie 'The Express' the other day, it touched on the story of Little and Jim Brown.


QB- John Elway, Craig Morton, Steve Deberg
RB- Terrell Davis, Otis Armstrong, Clinton Portis
FB- Howard Griffith, Aaron Craver
WR- Rod Smith, Haven Moses
WR-Steve Watson, Lionell Taylor
TE- Shannon Sharpe, Riley Odoms
LT- Gary Zimmerman, Claudie Minor
LG- Mark Scherleth, Keith Bishop
C- Tom Nalen, Billy Bryan
RG-Paul Howard
RT- Tony Jones

My defense will ONLY be the dreaded 3-4 ORANGE CRUSH BABAY!!!:salute:
DE-Lyle Alzado, Rulon Jones, Barney Chavous
NT-Rubin Carter, Tombstone Jackson, Trevor Price
DE-Barney Chavous, Neil Smith
LB-Randy Gradishar, Bill Romanowski
LB-Bob Swenson, John Mobley
LB-Joe Rizzo, Al Wilson
LB-Tom Jackson, Karl Mecklenberg
CB-Louis Wright, Mike Hardin
CB-Cham Bailey, Mark Haynes
S- Steve Atwater, Billy Thompson
S-Dennis Smith, Steve Foley

K-Jason Elam
P-Norris Weese!!! Remember him? He could be a backup QB too!
KR- Rick Upchurch, PR-Rick Upchurch- Backup KR/PR- Gerald Willhite.
HC-Mike Shannahan
Ass. Coaches-Red Miller, Dan Reeves.

Hows That, Get you Super Bow TIX now, cause that team would be impossible to beat, I dont care who you are!:D:salute:

Tombstone Jackson was a DE in the 3-4, and should back up no one! :salute:

I also have a hard time selecting Mike Harden because he is part of a Bo Jackson highlite reel.

Not to nit-pick though, it's a good list (http://forums.denverbroncos.com/archive/index.php/t-117394.html).

Dreadnought
10-19-2010, 07:16 PM
I love Ed McAffrey, but I'm not sure he makes it on the all-time team.

Maybe Vance Johnson, or maybe someone from the early years that I can't think of off the top of my head.

McAffrey was one HELL of a blocker down-field though. . .and caught freaking everything that entered his zip code. I'll never forget being so upset the morning of Sept. 11 because he broke his leg in the MNF game the night before at the grand opening of the new stadium. :tsk:

Steve Watson > Vance Johnson, but over Mccaffrey? Tough choice

dogfish
10-19-2010, 07:25 PM
I love Ed McAffrey, but I'm not sure he makes it on the all-time team.

Maybe Vance Johnson, or maybe someone from the early years that I can't think of off the top of my head.



haven moses. . .

dogfish
10-19-2010, 07:27 PM
also, jags, you might want this (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13343439). . .

Denver Native (Carol)
10-19-2010, 07:29 PM
also, jags, you might want this (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13343439). . .

Agree - that is a great list of Broncos, as voted by the fans :salute:

BroncoBJ
10-19-2010, 08:14 PM
I give Jags credit. Hes trying to become a real Bronco fan and getting to know some former Bronco greats. :salute:

Props to him.

spikerman
10-19-2010, 08:30 PM
How can you have an all-time great Broncos list without Lonnie Paxton?

TXBRONC
10-19-2010, 09:59 PM
Champ no doubt.

Clady maybe, but it's too early to tell.

Same with Dumervil imo.

tomjonesrocks
10-20-2010, 12:41 AM
Bailey. Clady if he performs at a high level for 3-5 more years. That's it--this team doesn't have much talent.

Dumervil only has one "all time" type year to his credit. Way too soon to tell on him.

BCJ
10-20-2010, 12:59 AM
Tim Tebow will be going into the ring of fame this weekend. There will be a special half time show in his honor.

We honor tebow every sunday. It is at church.
BTW, if anyone forgets Simon Fletcher on their all time team, they dont know didly squat about the history of this team. Meck and Jackson are earned but Wilson doesnt go ahead of Fletcher and his 99 sacks.

Bill Devaroe
10-20-2010, 06:22 AM
If we are going on potential as well I would say

1.Tebow (H-Back)
2. D. Thomas
3. Champ
4. Dawkins
5. B Lloyd

FanInAZ
10-20-2010, 07:44 AM
When they asked us to vote for the Broncos 50th Anniversary team last year, here's how I voted:

QB: Elway
RB: Davis
RB: Little
WR: Smith
WR: Taylor
TE: Sharpe
OT: Zimmerman
OT: Jones
OG: Schlereth
OG: Habib
C: Nalen

DE: Fletcher
DE: Jackson
DT: Price
DT: Smith
LB: Mecklenburg
LB: Wilson
LB: Gradishar
CB: Wright
CB: Bailey
S: Atwater
S: Smith

K: Elam
P: Prestridge
Ret: Upchurch

MileHighCrew
10-20-2010, 09:10 AM
Eddie Mac has to make the list without question.
I love this tread, the Broncos have a great history.
From this years team Champ......

broncofaninfla
10-20-2010, 10:34 AM
Without a doubt Simon Fletcher was the best OLB in Broncos history. He was great for years, Dooms had one very good year. I hope one day we can debate who's better but for now it isn't even close.

Jagsbch
10-20-2010, 10:37 AM
I noticed how despite playing only 2 seasons, Clinton Portis made the all time team ahead of Floyd Little the Bowlegged Homicidal Maniac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMTjEAYSbzg)

http://www.bettingers.org/floyd/little.jpg

So I decided to take a look at the stats and see what the story was there.

seasons/attempts/yards/TD's

5/676/2,451/13 TD's Floyd Littles worst 5 seasons

4/965/3872/30 TD's Best 4 seasons

2/563/3,099/31 TD's Clinton Portis Rookie and Sophomore season

Now both have played in the league for 9 seasons, Portis is actually half way through his, but as phenomenal as Portis is in the rushing game, looks like Little was better in the receiving game, and that was back then, imagine how much better he could be in a pass happy league?

9 TD's 215/2,418 11.2 ave Little
5 TD's 246/2,004 8.1 ave Portis

Portis has over 3,000 more rushing yards than Little.

Little does have 2,523 return yards as well to throw into the mix.

Now since Portis only spent 2 seasons in Denver, no way can anyone dare place him ahead of Little, considering it is not what the player has done for other teams that matters but what he has done for the Broncos, this is an all time team thread of course, not an other teams thread...

I mean is Steve Young on the Buc's all time team or the 49ers, or how about the LA Express?


A Tribute to Floyd Little, #44 (http://www.bettingers.org/floyd/index.htm)
http://www.bettingers.org/floyd/floyd.jpg

The Glue Factory
10-20-2010, 10:58 AM
You're doing better grasshopper.

Stats don't tell story with Little. The guy just could not be tackled! What you don't see in that photo is how bowlegged he is (which contributed to the inability to tackle him.) Part of the reason Little is so great is that he is the first, first round draft pick that signed for Denver. If not for him the Broncos would not be in Denver today. He is called "The Franchise" for very good reason, he saved the Broncos.

TXBRONC
10-20-2010, 11:15 AM
Without a doubt Simon Fletcher was the best OLB in Broncos history. He was great for years, Dooms had one very good year. I hope one day we can debate who's better but for now it isn't even close.

I think he's had only one bad year and that was '08 when he had only 5 sacks but he was contending with a hand injury. In his rookie year he had 8 sacks in limited duty. In his second year he garnered 12.5 sacks and of course last year he had 17.

Ravage!!!
10-20-2010, 11:38 AM
greatness is always determined by sustained success. Of course the young guys on the team now can't be compared to players that were/are considered "great." Thats an earned title that comes with time-n-grade.

Jagsbch
10-20-2010, 12:28 PM
You're doing better grasshopper.

Stats don't tell story with Little. The guy just could not be tackled! What you don't see in that photo is how bowlegged he is (which contributed to the inability to tackle him.) Part of the reason Little is so great is that he is the first, first round draft pick that signed for Denver. If not for him the Broncos would not be in Denver today. He is called "The Franchise" for very good reason, he saved the Broncos.


Speaking of the draft, so how does this rookie draft class (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414241-which-player-can-the-best-value-be-found-in-the-broncos-2010-draft#page/1)es "potential" compare to other draft classes?

I mean besides the draft Little was taken in, when is the last time the Broncos had 10 players from their draft class play in a game and have the impact this rookie class is having this season?

Is this a testament of the lack of depth reflected in the medicocity this team has experienced, or are there other folks like me who recognize just how special this draft class is.

Rookies step up, 10 rookies played in Jets game (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16382017#ixzz12uNAEFvu)

Consider this past Sunday a big step for the Broncos' rookie class.

Denver's two touchdowns came from first-round draft picks — quarterback Tim Tebow, on a 5-yard run, and receiver Demaryius Thomas, who caught his second career touchdown pass.

Three rookies, center J.D. Walton, right tackle Zane Beadles and cornerback Perrish Cox, started.

Receiver Eric Decker and cornerback Syd'Quan Thompson played on special teams and in substitution packages. Thomp son also intercepted a pass.

Undrafted rookies Cassius Vaughn, Kyle McCarthy and Kevin Alexander played on special teams, meaning there were 10 first-year players on the field.

"We've got a lot of young guys stepping up, and we are trying every week as a rookie class to improve," Tebow said. "So, I think the longer it goes, the more experience that the young class will get and the more improvement you will see."

The Glue Factory
10-20-2010, 04:52 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say that the 2010 draft class is so insanely talented as to garner play time. Take those 10 players and put them on some of the other teams around the league and I doubt you'd see as many on the field - meaning the Broncos are at a net talent deficit. Remember that in the past 2 years we've released 32 players that aren't even on the practice squad of any NFL team. How big is the talent hole we're trying to climb out of? Take all 10 of those players back 12 years and I doubt more than 1 or 2 gets any playing time and those two would probably be on ST only.

I'd say the reason we've got so many rookies playing is that we've got a huge hole of talent to fill and they're the best option to help get us the win on Sundays. Good or bad depends on how you look at it.

EMB6903
10-20-2010, 08:19 PM
Champ would be a lock... Other than that... nobody.

Clady doesnt come close to Zimmerman and wont for awhile.

Gary Zimmerman was on 2 all decade teams... thats UNHEARD OF.

Jagsbch
10-21-2010, 09:05 AM
Remember that in the past 2 years we've released 32 players that aren't even on the practice squad of any NFL team.

When you take out the Training camp fodder, there where actually only 18 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2976569#post2976569)players cut from the 53 man roster that never played again...



I'd say the reason we've got so many rookies playing is that we've got a huge hole of talent to fill

Huge hole to fill?

That's funny, because from what I gather that is far from being the case.

The Rookie WR's are not filling huge holes at their respective untis.

The CB's are not filling Huge holes at there respective units.

The rookie offensive lineman, are they not actually upgrades to the starters that where jettisoned from the unit while currently playing on other teams?

The QB position as far as this fan base is concerned has anything but a hole to fill.

The Linebacking corps has had to huge blows as far a injuries go but the unit is a far cry from possessing huge holes talent wise.

I think it is absurd to try and write off just how good this draft class is as a result of the team being in a rebuilding mode.

Shanahan made it clear that this offense was set talent wise while he was here feeling that the issues talent wise that needed to be resolved was on defense.

8 of the starters on offense where not even here during the Shanahan era. 4 of the 8 starters on offense have been replaced by players who where either rookies last season or now.

I don't think the hole was as much an issue of talent as it has to do with philisophical and scheme discrapencies.

Tony Scheffler, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall are clearly no sloutches, but the way the receiving game has been going clearly these players are not missed considering the replacements are clearly holding their own.

Going from the 4-3 to the 3-4, from the zone blocking to power scheme required a change in personnel. Then of course all the conflict the former HC being fired and the new coach getting the redheaded stepfather treatment certain prina donnas had to go...

It is what it is, seeing the moves made in the FA to bring outstanding talent here, added to the talent stepping up from the draft has me inclined to believe that the emergence draft class this season is more the result of talent than it is having holes being filled.

Beadles for example is not filling a hole in talent, considering the player he is replacing has been part of last seasons best tackle tandem in the league.

Now I can buy injuries playing a huge role in the debate as to the reason for the staggering amount of rookies actually making an impact on this team Sunday, but not a huge hole in talent, to me that really does not make sense when you look at the respective roles the players are poised in.

I mean you can make the argument that there was a huge hole in the offensiveline, but I would rebut with the hole being created to make room for this scouted rookie corp to come in and take this offense in the new direction McDaniels wants to take it in.

I guess we are both right eh?

The Glue Factory
10-21-2010, 10:42 AM
Of course Shanahan said the offense was set. But like you mentioned, different scheme requires different personnel.

The fact remains that
We let go of 32 players from 2008 (roster and practice squad) who were here who never played in the NFL again
Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16077150#ixzz0zbOqriAG)


Not only were those 32 not fit to play as starters in the Broncos new scheme but they aren't fit to play in ANY scheme, ANYwhere in the NFL (not even Oakland!) They aren't even backups. They aren't even on a practice squad. For all we know they're selling cell phones in Denver area shopping malls.

I'm not talking about individual positional holes. I'm talking from a global level of the Broncos. Those 32 players (a large portion of them were starters - 9 on defense alone) are not good enough to play in the NFL. Yet they were playing on the Broncos squad. Here's the conclusions from Xanders statement:

1) We had a great coach coaching up substandard players in the NFL.
2) We currently have a net deficit of talent on the team due to the departure of those 32 never ready for prime time players.
3) The team we have now is at a lower net deficit of talent than in the past.
4) We still have a ways to go to get to an average talent level for NFL teams.
5) It's going to take a while to get where we're going.

Jagsbch
10-22-2010, 09:48 AM
Speaking of the draft, so how does this rookie draft class (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414241-which-player-can-the-best-value-be-found-in-the-broncos-2010-draft#page/1)es "potential" compare to other draft classes?

I mean besides the draft Little was taken in, when is the last time the Broncos had 10 players from their draft class play in a game and have the impact this rookie class is having this season?

Is this a testament of the lack of depth reflected in the medicocity this team has experienced, or are there other folks like me who recognize just how special this draft class is.

Rookies step up, 10 rookies played in Jets game (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16382017#ixzz12uNAEFvu)

Consider this past Sunday a big step for the Broncos' rookie class.

Denver's two touchdowns came from first-round draft picks — quarterback Tim Tebow, on a 5-yard run, and receiver Demaryius Thomas, who caught his second career touchdown pass.

Three rookies, center J.D. Walton, right tackle Zane Beadles and cornerback Perrish Cox, started.

Receiver Eric Decker and cornerback Syd'Quan Thompson played on special teams and in substitution packages. Thomp son also intercepted a pass.

Undrafted rookies Cassius Vaughn, Kyle McCarthy and Kevin Alexander played on special teams, meaning there were 10 first-year players on the field.

"We've got a lot of young guys stepping up, and we are trying every week as a rookie class to improve," Tebow said. "So, I think the longer it goes, the more experience that the young class will get and the more improvement you will see."

MasterAgain @ CBS.com came up with this top draft class list...


1962: Merlen Olsen; Gary Ballman; Dave Edwards
1963: Kermit Alexander; RAy Poage; Paul Flatly; Hewritt Dixon
1964: Al Denson; Paul Krause; Bob Hayes (2 HOF in this class)
1965: Dick Butkus; Glenn Ressler
1967: Floyd Little;
1968: Marlin Briscoe; Curly Culp; Paul Smith
1973: Otis Armstrong; Barney Chavous; Tom Jackson;
1975: Louis Wright; Rick Upchurch; Rubin Carter; Steve Foley;
1980: Rulon Jones; Mike Harden; Keith Bishop
1983: John Elway (Trade, but still a draft pick); Gary Kubiac; Karl Mecklenburg.
1985: Steve Sewell; Vance Johnson; Simon Fletcher
1994: Tom Nalen; Rod Smith (undrafted)
1995: Terrell Davis
2006: Jay Cutler; Tony Sheffler; Brandon Marshall; Elvis Dumervil; Chris Kuper
2008: Ryan Clady; Eddie Royal; Ryan Torain; Spenser Larsen; Payton Hillis

BCJ
10-23-2010, 08:29 PM
When they asked us to vote for the Broncos 50th Anniversary team last year, here's how I voted:

QB: Elway
RB: Davis
RB: Little
WR: Smith
WR: Taylor
TE: Sharpe
OT: Zimmerman
OT: Jones
OG: Schlereth
OG: Habib
C: Nalen

DE: Fletcher
DE: Jackson
DT: Price
DT: Smith
LB: Mecklenburg
LB: Wilson
LB: Gradishar
CB: Wright
CB: Bailey
S: Atwater
S: Smith

K: Elam
P: Prestridge
Ret: Upchurch

good and obvious list but putting Fletcher at DE is because you felt he couldnt beat out the three you had? DE is where Wade Phillips put him and was undersized. His magic was done at Linebacker and he deserves to be there as top 3 LBs. Wilson would be odd man out or stick him at DE!
BTW, I think Barney Chavous deserves to be one of the lineman.

Canmore
10-24-2010, 01:54 AM
Champ would be a lock... Other than that... nobody.

Clady doesnt come close to Zimmerman and wont for awhile.

Gary Zimmerman was on 2 all decade teams... thats UNHEARD OF.

If I remember correctly ( IIRC, it took me a while to figure this out so for anyone else wondering) only five others have made two all decade teams and they are all in Canton.

As to the original posters question, only Champ makes the squad!

Joel
10-24-2010, 03:23 AM
Most of the current Broncos haven't been Broncos long enough to say they belong on an All Time Denver team. Doom is a good example; if he comes back from injury as good or better and stays with the team he's a definite All Time Bronco--in 5-10 years. It's hard to find many CURRENT choices; Champ's awesome, but until 2008 he'd played more with the 'Skins than with the Broncos, so making him an All Time "Bronco" would almost be like making Lynch or Dawkins one. Clady and most others are too new to say whether they're going to be phenoms for a few years and then disappear, or start a half dozen Pro Bowls.

So, yeah, DJ. He's spent his whole career here and consistently made plays despite having been assigned no less than FOUR LB positions in that time (Will, Sam and a brief stint at Mike, and now ILB in a 3-4 that's completely different from the 4-3 for which he was drafted). Frankly, I think he's been jerked around almost from the time he got here, but has nonetheless managed to deliver Team Captain performances week in and week out, and I've never heard a word of complaint. At times it's seemed like he was all we HAD on D, but instead of saying "Screw this, I'm going to a playoff team that will pay me more, give me some help and guarantee I won't start at QB next week" he sucked it up and gave the team and fans his all. So he's the All Time Bronco on this team.

Canmore
10-24-2010, 04:26 AM
Most of the current Broncos haven't been Broncos long enough to say they belong on an All Time Denver team. Doom is a good example; if he comes back from injury as good or better and stays with the team he's a definite All Time Bronco--in 5-10 years. It's hard to find many CURRENT choices; Champ's awesome, but until 2008 he'd played more with the 'Skins than with the Broncos, so making him an All Time "Bronco" would almost be like making Lynch or Dawkins one. Clady and most others are too new to say whether they're going to be phenoms for a few years and then disappear, or start a half dozen Pro Bowls.



Champs been with the Broncos since 2004. He should have been DPOY in 2006, but that went to Jason Taylor. Still he was a unanimous pick for the All Pro team. He's been to the pro bowl 9 times , 5 as a Bronco.

Comparing him to Lynch or Dawkins is ludicrous. Champ played during the prime of his career in Denver While Dawkins and Lynch were /are playing at the end of there's, even though they played/are playing at an incredibly high level. Champ clearly belongs on the Broncos all time team. Without getting into a who's best I think it is fair to say that Champ is one of the best 5 corners in the league at 32 and the Broncos were going to extend him until Bowlen pulled the rug out from under the negotiations.

Joel
10-24-2010, 04:52 AM
Champs been with the Broncos since 2004. He should have been DPOY in 2006, but that went to Jason Taylor. Still he was a unanimous pick for the All Pro team. He's been to the pro bowl 9 times , 5 as a Bronco.

Comparing him to Lynch or Dawkins is ludicrous. Champ played during the prime of his career in Denver While Dawkins and Lynch were /are playing at the end of there's, even though they played/are playing at an incredibly high level. Champ clearly belongs on the Broncos all time team. Without getting into a who's best I think it is fair to say that Champ is one of the best 5 corners in the league at 32 and the Broncos were going to extend him until Bowlen pulled the rug out from under the negotiations.
Those are good arguments, and if Champ retires as a Bronco while maintaining the level of play we've come to expect, then I'd definitely put him on the All Time team. Right now it's borderline, IMHO; he's played well in Denver longer than TD II did, but only as of last season. I just want a LITTLE more association with Denver, not much, but some.

Canmore
10-24-2010, 05:01 AM
Those are good arguments, and if Champ retires as a Bronco while maintaining the level of play we've come to expect, then I'd definitely put him on the All Time team. Right now it's borderline, IMHO; he's played well in Denver longer than TD II did, but only as of last season. I just want a LITTLE more association with Denver, not much, but some.

I hope that whatever went on with Bowlen pulling the plug on Champs extension gets SMOOTHED over and Champ finishes his career in Denver.

atwater27
10-24-2010, 08:37 AM
One thing's for sure. Tebow should go into the ring of fame for jersey sales alone.

Softskull
10-24-2010, 11:01 AM
I saw this on Clady recently, rating the draft of 2008. Found it mildly interesting.

12. Ryan Clady, T, Denver

Value: Clady is a franchise left tackle and a more than useful player, so it’s good value. But he’s not the player people make him out to be. Each time someone calls him the best young left tackle in the league, he should send a thank you card to Jay Cutler for avoiding so many sacks.

Interesting Stat: In his rookie year, the 37 pressures he gave up were more than any other tackle. The zero sacks allowed were the fewest.

Grade: B

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/10/21/class-of-2008-the-first-round-re-focused/

Joel
10-24-2010, 02:03 PM
Eddie Mac has to make the list without question.
I love this tread, the Broncos have a great history.
From this years team Champ......
Just what I was thinking. I love Rod to death; the man was pure class on the field from start to finish. But if I have to choose between him and MacAffrey, I have to go with the latter, who had some of the softest hands and most bruising bodies I've ever seen. He was Denvers Jay Novacek: When it was 3rd and 17 you dropped back and waited for him to get open for your first down, because he was money in the bank every time.

I hope that whatever went on with Bowlen pulling the plug on Champs extension gets SMOOTHED over and Champ finishes his career in Denver.
Well, I've been away a while, but it sure sounds like the only reason Champ doesn't have a 2011 contract is because no one will.