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Denver Native (Carol)
10-19-2010, 08:46 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5701512

The NFL will announce by Wednesday that, effective this weekend, even first-time offenders face suspension for "devastating hits" and "head shots," according to Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations.

"We can't and won't tolerate what we saw Sunday," Anderson said Monday. "We've got to get the message to players that these devastating hits and head shots will be met with a very necessary higher standard of accountability. We have to dispel the notion that you get one free pass in these egregious or flagrant shots."

Anderson was alluding to the normal disciplinary measures in which the league has issued fines for first-time offenders and, very often, second-time offenders.

"What we saw Sunday was disturbing," Anderson said. "We're talking about avoiding life-altering impacts."

Sunday's games produced a number of violent hits.

The Eagles' DeSean Jackson and the Falcons' Dunta Robinson were knocked out of their game after a frightening collision in which Robinson launched himself head first into Jackson. Both sustained concussions, and Jackson is not expected to play in Week 7.

Ravens tight end Todd Heap took a vicious hit from Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather that Heap called "one of those hits that shouldn't happen." The team was in contact with the league about the tackle.

Steelers linebacker James Harrison sidelined two Browns players with head injuries after jarring hits. An NFL spokesman said one of the tackles, on Josh Cribbs, was legal. The Browns were more upset about Harrison's hit on Mohamed Massaquoi, which the league is reviewing.

And Jets safety Jim Leonhard was flagged 15 yards for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Brandon Lloyd in a 24-20 win over the Broncos.

Anderson would not speculate earlier Monday on how many players would be punished for hits from the past Sunday's games. Players also can be ejected from games for illegal hits, but that's rare.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-19-2010, 08:49 AM
On the link I posted, this is being discussed after last night's game. The problem I see is "devastating hits". There is no way to define devastating hits, so that every referee is on the same page - i.e. - each referee crew, or each individual referee, may have their own interpretation of what a devastating hit is.

Dirk
10-19-2010, 08:50 AM
A good move IMO as long as they don't get over zealous in it.

I'm guessing the Titans and Steelers will have the most players suspended due to this ruling.

Mike
10-19-2010, 09:30 AM
The NFL will announce by Wednesday that, effective this weekend, even first-time offenders face suspension for "devastating hits" and "head shots," according to Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations.

I am curious to see how the this will be defined exactly. There are plenty of good clean hits that look "devastating". And to be honest, it is a part of the game.

I have no beef with suspensions for helmet to helmet, leading with the helmet type hits. But I am a little worried over how far they plan on taking the other. It is a fast paced, hard hitting game. That is what makes it fun to watch.

BigDaddyBronco
10-19-2010, 09:56 AM
I am curious to see how the this will be defined exactly. There are plenty of good clean hits that look "devastating". And to be honest, it is a part of the game.

I have no beef with suspensions for helmet to helmet, leading with the helmet type hits. But I am a little worried over how far they plan on taking the other. It is a fast paced, hard hitting game. That is what makes it fun to watch.
I have no issue with hard hits or even some helmet to helmet hits on running plays. It's the receiver on a crossing route catching the ball, turning around, and getting leveled by a flying James Harrison leading with his helmet that have to be policed. They can hit lower or lead with a shoulder but they chose to lay guys out and hurt them. That is dirty and should be removed from the game.

dogfish
10-19-2010, 10:50 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

Northman
10-19-2010, 10:54 AM
I am curious to see how the this will be defined exactly. There are plenty of good clean hits that look "devastating". And to be honest, it is a part of the game.

I have no beef with suspensions for helmet to helmet, leading with the helmet type hits. But I am a little worried over how far they plan on taking the other. It is a fast paced, hard hitting game. That is what makes it fun to watch.

Thats the problem.

When i watch games these days and see a big hit its a reactionary flag that often comes out. Meaning, when the crowd goes "WOW!!" the ref will believe it too be "devastating" and then throw a flag. I agree that it should kept with only helmet to helmet hits or launching. But laying your shoulder into a player jarring a ball loose should be let go. I just think this will be a formula for disaster and tie down the hands of the defense more than it already is.

Northman
10-19-2010, 10:55 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .


What a dirty player he was......

The Glue Factory
10-19-2010, 11:01 AM
On the link I posted, this is being discussed after last night's game. The problem I see is "devastating hits". There is no way to define devastating hits, so that every referee is on the same page - i.e. - each referee crew, or each individual referee, may have their own interpretation of what a devastating hit is.

There will always be room for referee discretion on nearly all penalties, BUT you can also narrow that range of discretion by providing the officials with examples of what is and isn't devastating hits.

I think as long as the referees call the launching and helmet leading hits, the devastating hits will be taken care of. I was surprised the refs called an unnecessary roughness call for the hit on Lloyd that launched him out of bounds. Lloyd was clearly still in bounds and definitely not heading for out of bounds. It wasn't leading with the helmet, so no penalty should have been called.

GEM
10-19-2010, 11:07 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

To expound on that....what about a 220 lb RB lining up to go helmet to helmet on a 180 lb DB? Why is the offense given that right, while taking all the rights away from the D? Hell, why don't we just make the D stand straight up and play footsie with a WR. :rolleyes:

BigDaddyBronco
10-19-2010, 11:17 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .
And completely clean. Or the DJ Williams hit on Roy Williams, hit him in the chest with his shoulder, but took Roy out of the game with "shortness of breath".

Lonestar
10-19-2010, 11:18 AM
Just heard on Herd this morning. Not sure who the caller was but they said the fastest growing demographic was adult female. Because of this he said if there was ever a death on the field because of these hits. With a player laying dead on the ground they would stop watching, not allow their sons to play little league and junior/high school football.

That would be a double hit drop in ratings (ad revenue) and dry up the future players pool.

By being pro active like they are they can say they have done everything in their powers to stop these cheap shots.

Smart very smart.
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frauschieze
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
And kill the game I love because of some pansy females? Boo and hiss on that BS.

Ravage!!!
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I heard that hypothesis on Collins show this morning.

I'm also listening to Collin right now, and he has Peter King on the show. Obviously, the hit that is causing the reactionary talks is the one in Philly. Interestingly enough, Peter says that when you watch that hit in slow motion, the defender puts his shoulder pad in the solarplexes of the receiver, and it was NOT a hit that people are talking about.

So my problem is that we will see the person responsible for dealing out suspensions on "devastating" hits, will do the same thing they did with fines for illegal hits. They will come down HARD at first to make a point. But this guy, this person in charge, will have the ability to CHANGE GAMES because he can take people out of the game determined on HIS perception. With no real "set rules" as to what constitutes a "devastating" hit.

We've seen people get fined for a helmet-to-helmet hit, when the defender OBVIOUSLY was either trying to lead with the shoulder, or aimed at the chest when the offender MOVED into the hit. Yet the defender gets the fine. NOW, those same situations are going to get players not only fined, but suspended from a game which could absolutely hinder a team and change the outcomes.

What are they going to do in the playoffs? Are they going to suspend players for BIG hits in the playoffs.. and/or suspend that player from the Super Bowl?

I get the reactions. But as was said on ESPN radio today as well. The NFL is trying to push a rule that "protects" the players, yet they want to INCREASE the number of games. The only thing the increase in games does, is increase revenue and is NOT looking out for the safety of the players. So send your signals on how you are "trying" to protect the players, as long as it doesn't hurt your pocketbook.

Dreadnought
10-19-2010, 11:32 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

Single best example there is of a good clean hit. I was searching for that clip myself to post :D

I don't think anyone wants to see pink leg-warmers on the players, but there should be no room for the kind of cheap crap you see from guys like Cortland Finnegan or James Harrison. That isn't part of the game

Lonestar
10-19-2010, 12:04 PM
Yeah, I heard that hypothesis on Collins show this morning.

I'm also listening to Collin right now, and he has Peter King on the show. Obviously, the hit that is causing the reactionary talks is the one in Philly. Interestingly enough, Peter says that when you watch that hit in slow motion, the defender puts his shoulder pad in the solarplexes of the receiver, and it was NOT a hit that people are talking about.

So my problem is that we will see the person responsible for dealing out suspensions on "devastating" hits, will do the same thing they did with fines for illegal hits. They will come down HARD at first to make a point. But this guy, this person in charge, will have the ability to CHANGE GAMES because he can take people out of the game determined on HIS perception. With no real "set rules" as to what constitutes a "devastating" hit.

We've seen people get fined for a helmet-to-helmet hit, when the defender OBVIOUSLY was either trying to lead with the shoulder, or aimed at the chest when the offender MOVED into the hit. Yet the defender gets the fine. NOW, those same situations are going to get players not only fined, but suspended from a game which could absolutely hinder a team and change the outcomes.

What are they going to do in the playoffs? Are they going to suspend players for BIG hits in the playoffs.. and/or suspend that player from the Super Bowl?

I get the reactions. But as was said on ESPN radio today as well. The NFL is trying to push a rule that "protects" the players, yet they want to INCREASE the number of games. The only thing the increase in games does, is increase revenue and is NOT looking out for the safety of the players. So send your signals on how you are "trying" to protect the players, as long as it doesn't hurt your pocketbook.

I think that throwing someone out of the game will be something that happens rarely although I can see a "review by the umpire" of something like this coming on the immediate horizon, before throwing a guy out of an active game.

AS far as suspending a player for a set amount of games after the fact I suspect it will not be just one guy making that decision but one guy will review these calls and then IF there is any doubt in his mind then will be review by his boss.

Rome is now saying the guy that this quote is attributed to Anderson in the NFL office s is now saying he has never said they want to eliminate devastating hits.

girler
10-19-2010, 12:06 PM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

I love me these good, clean, devastating hits! :beer:


And kill the game I love because of some pansy females? Boo and hiss on that BS.

I'm with Frau on this. If those women can't handle the game, they shouldn't watch. They also shouldn't hang out with real men either. They might get sweat-ed on. :coffee:

Lonestar
10-19-2010, 12:08 PM
Single best example there is of a good clean hit. I was searching for that clip myself to post :D

I don't think anyone wants to see pink leg-warmers on the players, but there should be no room for the kind of cheap crap you see from guys like Cortland Finnegan or James Harrison. That isn't part of the game

sadly it is currently part of their teams game. I'm sure their teammates are encouraging it as well as the coaching staff.

There will be discussions in the off season at the owners meetings to make a harder fast rule on this item.

Especially if someone gets hurt or a career it ended.

Lonestar
10-19-2010, 12:25 PM
I love me these good, clean, devastating hits! :beer:



I'm with Frau on this. If those women can't handle the game, they shouldn't watch. They also shouldn't hang out with real men either. They might get sweat-ed on. :coffee:

While I think that the game has become "PC" I see where this is going.

Have Y'all noticed all the ladies gear in the game day commercials lately.

It is a growing market for the NFL and they are smart to exploit it.

I'll will also bet you Moms would change your mind if you were watching a cheap hit that would kill someone or put them on life support forever.

How many of the younger moms would shunt their kids into baseball, instead of football or some other less violent sport.

the owners are listening to their marketing guys trust me on this

I forgot to respond to Ravs comments about the longer season.

None of the players is going to get mixed signals about why they are getting two more regular season games it is for the money only and the players will ge a piece of said money.

They are selling out their bodies for money now money what is two more games.

the smart guys are (gradisher and lately Jake) banking their money and walking away while they still can.

Gradisher said when he entered the league it was 10 years if he lasted that long and he would retire. he stayed true to himself in that manner. Jake no longer found it fun and left on his own terms.

I throw this into the mix so we do not get into a "Jake" hate thread. John Elway could have played a few more years but retired after he got his rings. Because his body could not handle it any longer on his own terms.

The players have to make up their minds money vs happiness and the ability to walk 15 years from now. Or play more years. 2 more games per year equates to 8 games or a half of a season for MOST players with an average NFL lifetime of some 4 years.

Ravage!!!
10-19-2010, 03:32 PM
Single best example there is of a good clean hit. I was searching for that clip myself to post :D

I don't think anyone wants to see pink leg-warmers on the players, but there should be no room for the kind of cheap crap you see from guys like Cortland Finnegan or James Harrison. That isn't part of the game

and you will see a lot of solid "clean" hits and hitters being suspended.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-19-2010, 05:25 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b732df/article/anderson-on-flagrant-hits-no-new-rules-just-more-enforcement?module=HP_headlines

While harsher fines and possibly suspensions for flagrant hits could be coming immediately, NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson clarified Tuesday that the league isn't considering changing existing rules.

"We need to get our players firmly in line with the current rules," Anderson said, appearing Tuesday morning on ESPN Radio. In particular, Anderson said the focus is on defenseless players.

"What we're trying to make sure our players understand is that you should know the rules," Anderson said. "The coaches know the rules, the players should know the rules. And so if you are in violations of the rules -- particularly one of those trying to protect against head, neck injuries -- we're going to hold you to a higher standard."

Anderson said there is no intent to change any rules. "We are just going to enforce the existing rules much more to the letter of the law so we can protect our players," he said.

"If it's an illegal hit under the rules, then you're going to be held accountable. We get the pushback all the time that, 'What's a defender to do?' Well, we, in these situations, have to say the defender has to adjust his target area. The player has to wrap up. He has to do the things more fundamentally that we used to do ... when we used to tackle back in the day. We would like them to do more of that. But with the seriousness of the head and neck trauma and concussions generally, we've got a responsibility to just make sure that players understand and adapt."

Anderson was asked specifically about the helmet-to-helmet hit in Sunday's Ravens-Patriots game, in which New England safety Brandon Meriweather left the ground to lay a hit on Baltimore tight end Todd Heap.

"That in our view is something that was flagrant, it was egregious," Anderson said. "And effective immediately, that's going to be looked at at a very aggressive level, which could include suspension without pay."

Anderson noted that game officials have the authority to eject players in those situations and that the league plans to talk to officials "so their authority to eject will be clarified."

Anderson acknowledged that the league's intent to limit flagrant hits has been met with some criticism from those who fear it will change the game of football. He said he is confident players can adapt and that it is the league's responsibility to protect its players.

"We understand this is not just about the NFL," Anderson said. "This is about safety at our level, at the college level, at the high school level, at the pee-wee level, because we are the standard bearer and we are committed to safety at the highest level.

"So we will take all the criticism and all the backlash against those that say we are acting too aggressively in this regard. We are not going to be apologetic. We are not going to be defensive about it. We are going to protect our players and hopefully players at the lower levels as well by example."

gobroncsnv
10-19-2010, 06:19 PM
This kind of pansiness killed John Lynch's game... If anyone remembers where he pulled up to "touch" a guy down, and the ref ruled he didn't contact the player while he was on the ground... the guy gets up, Lynch only touches him, and we get scored on... Yet they would have flagged/fined him if he'd have plowed the guy.
I'm not at all for dirty hits, but once a defender has set a course to make the hit, he's bringing pretty much all the power he can muster so he can stop a ball carrier's momentum. Madden used to call it "bringing load for load". The idea is to stop the advancement of the ball, perhaps cause a drop. You CANNOT change course while in the midst of all of those "computations", as they are decisions made in the blink of an eye. If you slow down the reaction time, you start to see more missed tackles, and people complain about how this is no longer a "man's game"...
When the offensive player changes direction to avoid such a hit, or to protect himself when he sees he can't avoid the hit, that's when most of these "devastating hits" become devastating.
There is no place in my book for dirty play, deliberately going after someone's scalp, but also, in my book, many of these hits are, as has been posted already in this thread by others... the ball carrier's fault.

Dreadnought
10-19-2010, 06:56 PM
and you will see a lot of solid "clean" hits and hitters being suspended.

Its possible - and I'd oppose throwing a guy out of an ongoing game for anything but a blatant clothesline or such. That said, I would be much more in favor of more suspensions for subsequent games, after tapes can be dissected and analyzed. Finnegan should already be cooling his heels for 2-4 IMO.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-19-2010, 07:33 PM
and you will see a lot of solid "clean" hits and hitters being suspended.

That's the problem - define "devastating hits" - it's impossible for all refs to have the same definition.

Lonestar
10-19-2010, 08:10 PM
If one of the officials calls a fragrant foul now the offender is sent to the showers.

The hankie is dropped and the offical tells the umpire what happened and if there is doubt about the call they huddle up to talk it out.

I frankly do not see what the issue is.

Like one of the old supreme court justices commented about PORNOGRAPHY "I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it"

If it is a foul then they get penalized. If in the judgement of the crew they are ejected. If not they allow them to play and allow the head offical that grades each ref on every play of every game. Decide to suspend the clown/player.

Really not all the hard IMO.
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tomjonesrocks
10-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Dunta Robinson should not have been fined--that was not a dirty hit. Guess that's the NFL trying to give an example of "devastating" hits (as opposed to "head shots") though...

Dean
10-19-2010, 08:23 PM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

I think that the Nigerian Nightmare thought that it was pretty devastating from his point of view as well.:beer:

dogfish
10-19-2010, 10:15 PM
I think that the Nigerian Nightmare thought that it was pretty devastating from his point of view as well.:beer:

i bet to this day, at least a couple times a year he wakes up and instinctively looks up to see if atwater is standing over him. . . :lol:

tomjonesrocks
10-20-2010, 12:45 AM
i bet to this day, at least a couple times a year he wakes up and instinctively looks up to see if atwater is standing over him. . . :lol:

Jeezus. Been so long I forgot how 27 used to hit...great vid.

dogfish
10-20-2010, 01:17 AM
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6430/motivator19ac6668d887e4.jpg (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/motivator19ac6668d887e4.jpg/)

dogfish
10-20-2010, 01:21 AM
League is selling photo of James Harrison's illegal hitPosted by Mike Florio on October 19, 2010 11:12 PM ET

The folks at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh have uncovered an interesting angle regarding the hit that resulted in the imposition of a $75,000 fine against Steelers linebacker James Harrison.

The league currently is selling photos of the incident involving Harrison and Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, at anywhere from $15.95 to $249.95.

Sorry, but the NFL can't have it both ways. If the league wants to legislate dirty hits out of the game, the NFL should do nothing to profit from those dirty hits.

For now, the NFL is.

UPDATE: It appears that the spike in traffic from PFT Planet has crashed the servers of the NFL Photo Store.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm

______________________________

sickening, IMO. . . the NFL really stepped on their collective carrot on this one. . .

Bronco Bible
10-20-2010, 08:47 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

It was for #35:defense:

BigDaddyBronco
10-20-2010, 09:55 AM
League is selling photo of James Harrison's illegal hitPosted by Mike Florio on October 19, 2010 11:12 PM ET

The folks at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh have uncovered an interesting angle regarding the hit that resulted in the imposition of a $75,000 fine against Steelers linebacker James Harrison.

The league currently is selling photos of the incident involving Harrison and Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, at anywhere from $15.95 to $249.95.

Sorry, but the NFL can't have it both ways. If the league wants to legislate dirty hits out of the game, the NFL should do nothing to profit from those dirty hits.

For now, the NFL is.

UPDATE: It appears that the spike in traffic from PFT Planet has crashed the servers of the NFL Photo Store.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm

______________________________

sickening, IMO. . . the NFL really stepped on their collective carrot on this one. . .

Total BS. They should have suspended Harrison as well as fined him.

GEM
10-20-2010, 10:03 AM
League is selling photo of James Harrison's illegal hitPosted by Mike Florio on October 19, 2010 11:12 PM ET

The folks at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh have uncovered an interesting angle regarding the hit that resulted in the imposition of a $75,000 fine against Steelers linebacker James Harrison.

The league currently is selling photos of the incident involving Harrison and Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, at anywhere from $15.95 to $249.95.

Sorry, but the NFL can't have it both ways. If the league wants to legislate dirty hits out of the game, the NFL should do nothing to profit from those dirty hits.

For now, the NFL is.

UPDATE: It appears that the spike in traffic from PFT Planet has crashed the servers of the NFL Photo Store.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm

______________________________

sickening, IMO. . . the NFL really stepped on their collective carrot on this one. . .

PFT didn't get that started, a radio station in Pittsburgh did. :rolleyes: I can't stand Florio. He's equivalent to an ambulance chaser lawyer.

Lonestar
10-20-2010, 10:07 AM
Just heard that it is a vendor not the NFL who us doing this and the NFL found out about it and shut it down.
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GEM
10-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Just heard that it is a vendor not the NFL who us doing this and the NFL found out about it and shut it down.
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It's on the NFL site. They may contract out, but ultimately they are responsible for what is on the site. Having said that, they rushed into this decision the last few days and it was a missed detail. They fixed it as soon as it came to their attention. People make mistakes and that probably wasn't high on the lists of things to do while in the process. I'm not going to hold them to the fire. If they kept it up and kept selling them, then I'd have issue with it.

Devilspawn
10-20-2010, 10:11 AM
I can understand the NFL wanting to protect it's players, but some of those insane hits are incidentally legal. They have to look for intent first, that's pretty easy to spot.

Lonestar
10-20-2010, 10:15 AM
It's on the NFL site. They may contract out, but ultimately they are responsible for what is on the site. Having said that, they rushed into this decision the last few days and it was a missed detail. They fixed it as soon as it came to their attention. People make mistakes and that probably wasn't high on the lists of things to do while in the process. I'm not going to hold them to the fire. If they kept it up and kept selling them, then I'd have issue with it.

I'm sure that the vendor that contracts the local photographers. Will be watched a bit closer in this regards in the future.

As big as the NFL is things like this fall thru the cracks from time to time.
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Denver Native (Carol)
10-20-2010, 10:32 AM
Last night, I was watching the Altitude Sports Summit, which Dave Logan is a part of. He agrees with the helmet to helmet, but he feels now that you will see many more "leg hits", and there will be a great possibility of offensive players, suffering more knee injuries, etc.

dogfish
10-20-2010, 11:31 AM
PFT didn't get that started, a radio station in Pittsburgh did. :rolleyes: I can't stand Florio. He's equivalent to an ambulance chaser lawyer.


The folks at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh have uncovered an interesting angle

you apparently didn't read the first line of the article, goober. . . :laugh:

Ravage!!!
10-20-2010, 11:33 AM
Mark Schlereth is NOT happy about the fines and is EXTREMELY upset with the NFL over this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5706132

Northman
10-20-2010, 12:18 PM
This kind of pansiness killed John Lynch's game... If anyone remembers where he pulled up to "touch" a guy down, and the ref ruled he didn't contact the player while he was on the ground... the guy gets up, Lynch only touches him, and we get scored on... Yet they would have flagged/fined him if he'd have plowed the guy.
I'm not at all for dirty hits, but once a defender has set a course to make the hit, he's bringing pretty much all the power he can muster so he can stop a ball carrier's momentum. Madden used to call it "bringing load for load". The idea is to stop the advancement of the ball, perhaps cause a drop. You CANNOT change course while in the midst of all of those "computations", as they are decisions made in the blink of an eye. If you slow down the reaction time, you start to see more missed tackles, and people complain about how this is no longer a "man's game"...



Yep, you start playing with the defenders head. The game runs at a very fast speed and i look back to the hit that Lynch put on Hall. Lynch was already in motion to make contact with Hall when the ball went out of Hall's hands yet Lynch was fined and i believe flagged for hitting a defenseless receiver. I just dont get it. Its been part of the sport for years and every sport that has physical contact like that (Hockey, Boxing, UFC, etc) is going to have risks. Thats why they get paid the big bucks because there is risk involved. I can understand coming down on helmet to helmet hits and launching but even at times those can be misinterpreted because if the ball carrier lowers his head knowing he is going to get hit there will be contact with the helmets. It just takes away from the game when you start putting it in the hands of the refs for stuff like this.

Northman
10-20-2010, 12:22 PM
Mark Schlereth is NOT happy about the fines and is EXTREMELY upset with the NFL over this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5706132



Im not extremely as upset as he is but im severely disappointed.

Day1BroncoFan
10-20-2010, 12:26 PM
Maybe they should make it tag football instead... Just sayin'

There could be a wimp league and a manup league for the hitters.

GEM
10-20-2010, 12:52 PM
you apparently didn't read the first line of the article, goober. . . :laugh:

Nah, I didn't. I had already heard it reported from the TV station. I did see the last line where PFT said that the site had crashed from PFT pointing everyone to it, when they didn't. ;) Mike & Mike were reporting it and every other news source....so for them to say it was them irked me.




[B]UPDATE: It appears that the spike in traffic from PFT Planet has crashed the servers of the NFL Photo Store.


I absolutely despise Florio, so any chance I can get, I love to trash the guy. :D

dogfish
10-20-2010, 01:00 PM
Nah, I didn't. I had already heard it reported from the TV station. I did see the last line where PFT said that the site had crashed from PFT pointing everyone to it, when they didn't. ;) Mike & Mike were reporting it and every other news source....so for them to say it was them irked me.



I absolutely despise Florio, so any chance I can get, I love to trash the guy. :D

i don't like florio either. . .


you're still a goober. . . :D

BigDaddyBronco
10-20-2010, 01:13 PM
i don't like florio either. . .


you're still a goober. . . :D
A goober with a healthy rack... ;)

GEM
10-20-2010, 01:26 PM
i don't like florio either. . .


you're still a goober. . . :D

Watch it, hophead. I already beat you in FF this past week. You're not that far from my work place, I wouldn't want to have to hunt you down and beat you in Downtown. :laugh:

TXBRONC
10-20-2010, 02:31 PM
PFT didn't get that started, a radio station in Pittsburgh did. :rolleyes: I can't stand Florio. He's equivalent to an ambulance chaser lawyer.

I think he actually is a lawyer.

GEM
10-20-2010, 02:34 PM
I think he actually is a lawyer.

Figures. :lol:

dogfish
10-20-2010, 03:01 PM
Watch it, hophead. I already beat you in FF this past week. You're not that far from my work place, I wouldn't want to have to hunt you down and beat you in Downtown. :laugh:

i'm not a big fan of downtown, but the beating part doesn't sound so bad. . .


and yes, florio actually is a lawyer. . .

KCL
10-20-2010, 03:04 PM
Whatever happened to just tackling a player? Too boring? I love me some smash mouth football but there isn't a need to intentionally try to take someone out IMO...Of course if it helps your team..no harm in that I suppose..:D

Mike
10-20-2010, 03:39 PM
Whatever happened to just tackling a player? Too boring? I love me some smash mouth football but there isn't a need to intentionally try to take someone out IMO...Of course if it helps your team..no harm in that I suppose..:D

I see nothing wrong with a good, clean, "devastating" knock you on your ***, make you fear coming my way again hit.

KCL
10-20-2010, 03:41 PM
I see nothing wrong with a good, clean, "devastating" knock you on your ***, make you fear coming my way again hit.

I don't either...I guess you missed that part of my post...different words..same meaning!

dogfish
10-20-2010, 04:38 PM
Whatever happened to just tackling a player? Too boring? I love me some smash mouth football but there isn't a need to intentionally try to take someone out IMO...Of course if it helps your team..no harm in that I suppose..:D

i have no problem with the league fining merriweather, and i can't find a ton of sympathy for james harrison-- the massoquai hit honestly is pretty borderline, IMO, but the cribbs hit (which the league actually considers legal) was a blatant cheap shot. . . he just lowered his head and speared cribbs directly in the helmet, looked one-hundred percent intentional to me. . .

but the robinson hit was just a football play-- he led with his shoulder to the receiver's shoulder and blew the guy up, WTF else is he supposed to do??

:noidea:

if he gets his hands on the WR he'll be called for a penalty-- if he now can't hit him and try to dislodge the ball either, what in god's name do they expect him to do? stand there and watch the guy catch a crossing route in front of him and then hope he can chase him down from behind? i know the league wants to emphasize player safety and i think almost everyone is on board, but you have to allow defensive players some chance to break up plays, otherwise you may as well just not have defenses out there. . .

pretty much the only option left for a DB to stop a guy coming across the middle now is to dive at his legs-- which puts his own head in harm's way, and is generally considered a cheap shot because of the potential for career-changing knee injuries. . .

i truly don't understand what they expect defensive backs to do in that situation. . . are they supposed to yell and try to startle the receiver into dropping it? :huh: honestly, i suspect the league will be quite happy to just force DBs into playing even looser coverage, to the point where "defense" takes as much of a back seat in this league as it does in the NBA-- where offensive superstars become truly unstoppable, and scores look like the arena league. . .

because all that scoring is exciting, and that's what fans want!


:diesinside:

KCL
10-20-2010, 07:01 PM
I understand what you're saying dog..I like to see a good hit as much as the next person but like you said some of those hits are cheap shots...whether it's on a WR or the QB...what I said was there is no reason IMO to INTENTIONALLY try to take someone out...that's not tough playing..that is dirty playing.

Ravage!!!
10-20-2010, 07:40 PM
I understand what you're saying dog..I like to see a good hit as much as the next person but like you said some of those hits are cheap shots...whether it's on a WR or the QB...what I said was there is no reason IMO to INTENTIONALLY try to take someone out...that's not tough playing..that is dirty playing.

Hitting someone legal, and hard, trying to make them HURT when they feel the hit, is football. Trying to cause injury is different. Trying to make them hurt, is what I personally want from a defensive player.

KCL
10-20-2010, 07:48 PM
Trying to make them hurt, is what I personally want from a defensive player.

So you don't mind seeing Orton take some good hits and getting hurt?

dogfish
10-20-2010, 08:59 PM
So you don't mind seeing Orton take some good hits and getting hurt?

lady, nobody likes it, but it's part of the game. . . always has been. . .

KCL
10-20-2010, 09:56 PM
lady, nobody likes it, but it's part of the game. . . always has been. . .

Oh I agree and be quiet...I was asking Ravage...no need to be soooooooooo serious..:coffee:

;)
I didn't ask if he liked it.

dogfish
10-20-2010, 09:58 PM
Oh I agree and be quiet...I was asking Ravage...no need to be soooooooooo serious..:coffee:

;)
I didn't ask if he liked it.

oh, you wanna fight?


:boxing:

KCL
10-20-2010, 10:00 PM
oh, you wanna fight?


:boxing:

Yep...I do....:D

Denver Native (Carol)
10-20-2010, 10:04 PM
:pop2::popcorn:

dogfish
10-20-2010, 10:06 PM
enh, no need for the popcorn carol-- i can't hit a lady. . .

Denver Native (Carol)
10-20-2010, 10:14 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b7c476/article/players-fear-crackdown-on-hits-will-change-essence-of-football?module=HP_headlines

NEW YORK -- Ray Lewis is worried about what's happening to his sport.

The Baltimore Ravens linebacker, who epitomizes hard hits in the NFL, fears the league is stripping away the inherent violence and "the game will be diluted very quickly."

"My opinion is play the game like that game is supposed to be played, and whatever happens happens," Lewis said Wednesday about the NFL's decision to crack down on dangerous and flagrant hits.

The NFL imposed huge fines on three players -- Pittsburgh's James Harrison, Atlanta's Dunta Robinson and New England's Brandon Meriweather -- for illegal hits last weekend. The league warned that, starting with this week's games, violent conduct will be cause for suspension.

Arizona Cardinals linebacker Joey Porter was clearly perplexed by the decision.

"There's no more hitting hard. That's what our game is about. It's a gladiator sport," Porter said. "I mean, the whole excitement of people getting hit hard, big plays happening, stuff like that.

"Just watch -- the game is going to change."

Violence has always been a part of the NFL, bringing soaring television ratings and strong attendance -- along with the allure that accompanied tackles by Chuck Bednarik, Fred "The Hammer" Williamson, and Jack "The Assassin" Tatum.

The question is how much to allow.

"Physical, tough football is what people are attracted to," said Ray Anderson, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations. "Violent, unnecessary hits that put people at risk, not just for the careers but lives ... we're not subscribing to the notion fans want that."

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told the teams that "further action is required to emphasize the importance of teaching safe and controlled techniques and of playing within the rules."

"It is incumbent on all of us to support the rules we have in place to protect players," he said.

But some players believe the league is asking for something much more difficult: complete changes in playing style -- changes that fans don't want to see.

Not surprisingly, defensive players are most critical.

"What they're trying to say -- 'We're protecting the integrity' -- no, you're not," Chicago Bears cornerback Charles Tillman said. "It's ruining the integrity. It's not even football anymore. We should just go out there and play two-hand touch Sunday if we can't make contact."

Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder said the only way of preventing helmet-to-helmet hits is to eliminate the helmet.

"If I get a chance to knock somebody out, I'm going to knock them out and take what they give me," Crowder said. "They give me a helmet, I'm going to use it."

The players are questioning how they are supposed to adhere to the heightened emphasis on avoiding dangerous hits when it goes against everything they've been taught since they first stepped on the field as kids.

"Guys have to be coached differently because we've been coached a certain way our whole lives," said Cleveland Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, a member of the executive committee of the players' union, the NFLPA. "I think people out there would be shocked at the things players hear in their meetings with their coaches and the things they are supposed to do, the way they are taught to hit people."

Many players also wanted stronger discipline for flagrant fouls to be part of their negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement, not something unilaterally imposed six weeks into the season.

"We want to protect the players, absolutely," Fujita said. "But we need to have a longer conversation about it, and if you're going to impose sweeping changes like that and talk about suspending players, that's something that you have to address in the offseason."

Anderson argues that the way the game is played, officiated and policed will only change for the better -- and safer.

"We are not going to fundamentally change the game. We're focused on one thing, illegal hits to the head and neck area," he said. "We hope to culturally change it so players understand those head hits under existing rules should be taken out of the game. For players who can't make the adjustment on their own, they will get a lot of help from this office to make sure they don't play that way."

Officials will be instructed to have an even higher level of attention toward flagrant hits, which Anderson categorized as limited "but very high profile and damaging."

The NFL's crackdown was welcomed in the medical community.

Dr. William Bingaman, vice chairman of the Neurological Institute at the Cleveland Clinic and one of the independent doctors who examines concussed players to determine when they can return to action, sees it as a positive step.

But it's hardly a cure-all for preventing head injuries -- or any other injuries -- in the NFL, where the players are bigger and faster, and the enhanced equipment can make them foolishly gallant.

"We will never eliminate the dangers of a concussion occurring," Bingaman said, taking note that both Robinson and Jackson suffered concussions in their collision. "It's huge that we have the proper equipment and the proper training and proper tackling techniques.

"Anything that reduces a blow to the head, naturally I am in favor of that, because there is less risk and less incidents of concussions or something more serious. If you reduce helmet-to-helmet contact, it will reduce the number of concussions, but nothing they do can eliminate it."

Just as worrisome to some players, though, is limiting their ability to remain in the NFL.

"The guys who have had the knack to lay somebody out, I consider it a talent in itself," Broncos safety David Bruton said. "I feel as though these deterrents would be depriving them of the chance to showcase their abilities."

Anderson disagreed.

"We're not subscribing to the notion you want these guys out there running wild and blowing people up," he said. "Everything is on the table with regard to advancing player safety."

BroncoWave
10-20-2010, 10:19 PM
Normally I think Rick Reilly is an annoying douche, but I think he hit the nail on the head with this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5706465


Don't get me to the geek
By Rick Reilly
ESPN.com

Good, James Harrison. Please do retire. Make good on your threats and go drive a truck like your father did. And if you have as many head-ons in that job as you do in this one, heaven help you.
Harrison, the Pittsburgh Steelers hired headhunter, is talking about quitting after being fined $75,000 for using his helmet to knock not just one Cleveland Brown out of the game, but two, then issued words that were even uglier than his deeds:
Would Harrison Walk Away?

ESPN NFL insider Adam Schefter reports that the Pittsburgh Steelers' James Harrison may be considering retirement. More

"I don't want to see anyone injured," Harrison said, "but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone."
I'm sorry?

"There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back, maybe a few plays later or the next game. I try to hurt people."
Harrison does more than try. He purposely lowered his head into two Browns wide receivers -- Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi -- sending them off to the "How many fingers am I holding up?" guy. Both men went for tests Monday, and it was uncertain whether either will play anytime soon.
No problem, says Dr. Feelbad.
"A hit like that geeks you up," Harrison said. "It geeks everybody up -- especially when you find out that the guy is not really hurt -- he's just sleeping. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK."
It didn't geek Patti Drake up. She was a kind of surrogate mom for Cribbs at Kent State, where he was, believe it or not, a teammate of Harrison's.
"It sickened me," she says.
If we can have a rule that a player who suffers a concussion can't go in for the rest of the game, why can't we have the same rule for players who hand them out?

You know what would geek me up? Harrison out of the game. Because as much as I abhor the way he plays, I don't want the day to come, 10 years from now, when he starts suffering depression and slurred speech and all the other goodies that come with these massive crashes. Because no amount of sleeping is going to make everything OK then.
God knows how Harrison would've reacted if the NFL had done what it should've, which is to bench him for two games, one for each player he appeared to try to decapitate. If we can have a rule that a player who suffers a concussion can't go in for the rest of the game, why can't we have the same rule for players who hand them out?
The second to be suspended should be the refs in that Steelers-Browns game. Neither of Harrison's hits was flagged, even though both were purposely helmet-to-helmet and the second one, the assault on Massaquoi, was the blatant lighting up of a defenseless player. If the refs had flagged the first, we might not have had to watch the second.
And what does all this say about us? The Romans used to pack the Colosseum to watch barbarism and cruelty, a spectacle that dehumanized the fans as well as the combatants. Are we starting to become those fans?
New England's Brandon Meriweather head-butted Baltimore Ravens tight end Todd Heap in a shot so cheap and disgusting that you wanted to switch over to baseball.

On Sunday, Dunta Robinson launched himself into Philadelphia's DeSean Jackson. He was fined $50,000 by the league.
Atlanta cornerback Dunta Robinson human-missiled Philly wide receiver DeSean Jackson so hard that both men were left concussed and sprawled out on the field as if they'd been leveled by a daisy cutter.
By the way, if you're counting, that's five Eagles who've been concussed this season. Hey, who wants to make the season two games longer?
All in all, seven players left games Sunday with brain injuries. It was the kind of Sunday that makes you wonder what kind of person you are for sitting there watching.
Watching men turn other men's cerebellums into oatmeal is starting to bring up the bile. We now know what these collisions can mean later in life. We know because the NFL is telling us. We know because we heard about what the battered brains of Hall of Famer Mike Webster and Terry Long looked like. Oh, yeah, they were Steelers, too, weren't they?
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin defended Harrison, saying he's a "model" for young players to imitate. Oh, yeah, he's a peach. Fined $5,000 for slamming Vince Young into the ground. Fined $5,000 for unnecessary brutality against a Cincinnati Bengal. Had to go to anger management and undergo psychiatric counseling after being charged with assault on his girlfriend. Owned a pit bull that bit his son, the boy's mom and his masseuse. When's he running for Congress?
Helmet-to-helmet hits involve two helmets. But when somebody asked Harrison whether he was worried about the long-term effects on his own brain, he scoffed. "That's the risk you take," he said.
An answer that begs the question: What brain?

Denver Native (Carol)
10-20-2010, 10:19 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b7bfea/article/steelers-vow-nfls-crackdown-on-hits-wont-change-style?module=HP_headlines

PITTSBURGH -- They're not sure how they're supposed to tackle. They're also confused about why they must change the way they've played football for years.

What the Pittsburgh Steelers aren't worried about is the NFL's stricter enforcement of dangerous hits altering their personality or physicality. Even if quarterback Ben Roethlisberger suggests the modification was made partly to make the Steelers (4-1) less competitive.

Linebacker James Harrison didn't practice Wednesday, saying he's not certain how to play defense now that the NFL plans to fine and suspend players for flagrant hits, especially to the helmet. Harrison was fined $75,000 for a punishing hit Sunday that left Cleveland Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi with a concussion.

"We all have the same concerns of what's legal and what's not legal," linebacker James Farrior said. "I don't think it's defined right now. It's a question mark for us, and we don't want to get in trouble every time we hit somebody, so it's definitely a concern."

Safety Ryan Clark knows adjustments will be required to follow NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's decree that hits that endanger an opposing player's safety won't be tolerated. But Clark is convinced the aggressive, hit-before-you-get-hit mentality of the Steelers' defense won't change.

"We still want to play football in a physical manner. We still want to stop people from scoring touchdowns," Clark said. "We're going to try to do that. You have to change if your intention was to be dirty. If your intention was to go out here and hit people in the helmet, injure people and give people concussions, you have to change. But that's never been our intention."

The Steelers lead the NFL in total defense since coach Mike Tomlin was hired in 2007. This season, they are No. 1 in fewest points (60, or 28 fewer than any other team) and rushing yards allowed and are No. 6 in overall defense.

It's not just the Steelers' defensive players who are upset with the midseason enforcement change.

"We have a reputation of being a tough football team and we have a lot of Lombardis up there, and that doesn't make a lot of people happy," Roethlisberger said. "But you know what? It makes us happy, so we'll just try to go out and play the game of football the way we know how to play it."

What Steelers players on both sides of the ball fear is that defenders, worried about fines or penalties, will target the legs and hips -- possibly creating career-threatening lower body injuries.

Roethlisberger and backup quarterback Byron Leftwich agreed they'd rather have a concussion than a serious knee injury.

"Just to be a little woozy, I think guys would take that over never walking again," Roethlisberger said.

Clark said tacklers have no option now but to go low on hits, or what is commonly termed around the league as lowering the strike zone.

"We can't go around hitting guys in the head, they made that point and we understand that," Clark said. "Obviously they wanted to make it a big issue, with the media showing the hits over and over again. They had to make a statement, and I think they did. But where do you go from here? We don't want to see guys with blown ACLs and thigh bruises and hip replacements. It's a touchy subject. We've got to find a way to hit these guys within the rules."

The Steel Curtain defense of the 1970s was so dominant, the NFL adjusted its rules so defensive backs such as future Hall of Famer Mel Blount couldn't bump and run with receivers further than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.

Clark believes these Steelers will adjust, too, even if he's not certain this change is necessary.

"I think the NFL is doing the right thing in trying to pay attention to those things," Clark said. "It's a dangerous sport and we understand that. I just don't know if we're going about it the right way, if levying fines and suspensions is the right way to solve that problem."

dogfish
10-20-2010, 10:49 PM
What Steelers players on both sides of the ball fear is that defenders, worried about fines or penalties, will target the legs and hips -- possibly creating career-threatening lower body injuries.

Roethlisberger and backup quarterback Byron Leftwich agreed they'd rather have a concussion than a serious knee injury.

"Just to be a little woozy, I think guys would take that over never walking again," Roethlisberger said.

Clark said tacklers have no option now but to go low on hits, or what is commonly termed around the league as lowering the strike zone.

"We can't go around hitting guys in the head, they made that point and we understand that," Clark said. "Obviously they wanted to make it a big issue, with the media showing the hits over and over again. They had to make a statement, and I think they did. But where do you go from here? We don't want to see guys with blown ACLs and thigh bruises and hip replacements. It's a touchy subject. We've got to find a way to hit these guys within the rules."

this is a big part of my concern. . . ray anderson can spout all he wants about what the fans supposedly want to see, but what this fan wants is an explanation from the league about what defenders are supposed to do about receivers coming over the middle. . .

sounds to me like the NFL just wants to be able to punish guys retroactively for the results of their hits, as a PR move. . . goodell is such a marketing stooge, it makes me sick. . . i doubt this will even cut down on injuries. . . if anything, we may see even more players ending up on IR, as knee injuries are exponentially more likely to be season-ending than concussions. . .

the only reason the NFL is even going after this is because that jackass florio has been banging the drum so insistently. . . so, they'll madate lower tackles, and then add two games to the schedule-- and who gives a shit who gets hurt as long as it's not the quarterbacks, and the public outcry about concussions can be quieted. . .

Reidman
10-20-2010, 11:00 PM
I wish the NFL was more like UFC..

You don't see MMA being regulated in this manner simply because the fighters know what's at stake and what they're getting into. If they don't want broken bones and lacerations they won't fight, simple as that.

They are tightening the NFL to the point where it might as well just be a powder puff league...

Ravage!!!
10-21-2010, 12:00 AM
So you don't mind seeing Orton take some good hits and getting hurt?

Sure.. I don't mind. Its Orton :D


Seriously though. If he's taking shots, I blame the OL, the blocking scheme, Orton for not getting rid of the ball, or the coach for not having the proper protection calls. The LAST person I blame, if ever, is the guy doing the hitting. He's SUPPOSED to hit hard.....especially on the QB.

I played QB. I understood, that EVERY player on the other side of the field ACHED to take their hardest tackle on ME. Every player, LOVED to hit me as hard as they could, and I knew that when they had the chance, they would hit me harder than anyone else. Thats part of the position, its just an understood.

Ravage!!!
10-21-2010, 12:02 AM
I wish the NFL was more like UFC..

You don't see MMA being regulated in this manner simply because the fighters know what's at stake and what they're getting into. If they don't want broken bones and lacerations they won't fight, simple as that.

They are tightening the NFL to the point where it might as well just be a powder puff league...

Actually, the UFC has eliminated some strikes and hits that they USED to allow. As a result, ratings have gone up. One such strike, was the eye gouges that used to be allowed.

Ravage!!!
10-21-2010, 12:07 AM
this is a big part of my concern. . . ray anderson can spout all he wants about what the fans supposedly want to see, but what this fan wants is an explanation from the league about what defenders are supposed to do about receivers coming over the middle. . .

sounds to me like the NFL just wants to be able to punish guys retroactively for the results of their hits, as a PR move. . . goodell is such a marketing stooge, it makes me sick. . . i doubt this will even cut down on injuries. . . if anything, we may see even more players ending up on IR, as knee injuries are exponentially more likely to be season-ending than concussions. . .

the only reason the NFL is even going after this is because that jackass florio has been banging the drum so insistently. . . so, they'll madate lower tackles, and then add two games to the schedule-- and who gives a shit who gets hurt as long as it's not the quarterbacks, and the public outcry about concussions can be quieted. . .

You have NOWHERE to tackle a QB anymore. I saw a guy hit a QB at the HIP two weeks ago, and was called for going low. You can't go high and you can't go low. Its getting to be absurd.

The NFL is looking to have the 'legal' aspects covered. Someone gets hurt,they can say they did everything they could.....except when it dips into their pocketbook. SO its ok to have more games, cause that just increases the money.

dogfish
10-21-2010, 12:26 AM
You have NOWHERE to tackle a QB anymore. I saw a guy hit a QB at the HIP two weeks ago, and was called for going low. You can't go high and you can't go low. Its getting to be absurd.


yep. . . with the QBs, it's definitely beyond just a legal "protecting their asses" thing-- it's also a PR thing, as they don't want their media darlings missing time. . . the part that bothers me the most is that it changes games-- i hate that i have to ****ing cringe in fear every time one of our defenders gets around the quarterback on third down, because of all the times i've seen utter bullshit roughing calls extend drives after the D earned a stop on the field. . . it's ridiculous, it's shameful, and it cheapens the game every time it happens IMO. . .

i'm all for enforcing reasonable rules against blatantly diving at knees and spearing with the helmet, or any blatant shot at another player's head. . . but the touch fouls have to stop, this isn't basketball. . . it sucks bad enough that you always have to be afraid of giving up a 3rd down conversion to a cheap illegal contact penalty, no matter the distance. . . the little love taps followed by the QB on the ground crying are beyond acceptable. . .


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9808/09000d5d815eece3gallery.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/i/09000d5d815eece3gallery.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


:coffee::coffee:

Northman
10-21-2010, 12:34 AM
yep. . . with the QBs, it's definitely beyond just a legal "protecting their asses" thing-- it's also a PR thing, as they don't want their media darlings missing time. . . the part that bothers me the most is that it changes games-- i hate that i have to ****ing cringe in fear every time one of our defenders gets around the quarterback on third down, because of all the times i've seen utter bullshit roughing calls extend drives after the D earned a stop on the field. . . it's ridiculous, it's shameful, and it cheapens the game every time it happens IMO. . .

i'm all for enforcing reasonable rules against blatantly diving at knees and spearing with the helmet, or any blatant shot at another player's head. . . but the touch fouls have to stop, this isn't basketball. . . it sucks bad enough that you always have to be afraid of giving up a 3rd down conversion to a cheap illegal contact penalty, no matter the distance. . . the little love taps followed by the QB on the ground crying are beyond acceptable. . .


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9808/09000d5d815eece3gallery.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/i/09000d5d815eece3gallery.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


:coffee::coffee:


Yea, it would seem as if Goodell wants it to become more and more like Arena Football where teams are scoring 50+ points every game where defense is almost non existent. I love seeing defensive stops and great hits in football and it would be ashame to do away with it.

Ive looked at this hit by Robinson 100 times and he never leaves his feet and he hits Jackson when the ball is there and leads with the shoulder. Worst call ive ever seen but because it was physical the flag was thrown. This is part of football though folks.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5357008/desean_jackson_gets_hit_hard_by_dunta_robinson/

Lonestar
10-21-2010, 01:30 AM
Sorry but using your head to go after another helmet is not right.

Even if they find the perfect helmut then defenders will use it more to make stops.

If they would learn how to wrap up and make a tackle then we would not be having this debate.

Not sure of the purportion of body mass to the heads mass but just guessing it is less than 5-8%. Maybe it is time to go after the other 90+% instead.

Lots of players really do not know how to wrap up a tackle.

To them a big hit is what they live for. Only to see the RB bounce around and gain more yards.
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FanInAZ
10-21-2010, 02:37 AM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .


What a dirty player he was......


To expound on that....what about a 220 lb RB lining up to go helmet to helmet on a 180 lb DB? Why is the offense given that right, while taking all the rights away from the D? Hell, why don't we just make the D stand straight up and play footsie with a WR. :rolleyes:

Look again, Atwater lead with his shoulder.

Some of the Cardinals D players were interview today about this new rule. One of them explain that a lot of the times the receivers cringe at the last minute, just as Christian Okoye did in the above clip. On the other hand, you may say he dipped his head in order to lay a hit on Atwater. In either case, what was not intended to be helmet to helmet can sometimes becoming helmet to helmet. Or in this case, a legendary shoulder lead hard hit. Also, the receivers are usually moving targets who will sometimes inadvertently move themselves into a big hit that they don't see coming.

When I was in high school, I was the 2nd tallest on campus. My best friend was one of the shortest guys. He would complain when I would inadvertently tackle him around the neck. My response back to him, "What am I supposed to do? Chase after you on my knees?" I remember thinking back to that when Bill Romanowski broke Todd Collins' jaw. Yes, Romo was a dirty player over all. However, I'll defend him on that particular hit. Yes, he dipped his shoulder. However, where would he have hit Collins if the hadn't? Up side his head which could have given him a concussion. So what's worst, a broken jaw or a concussion?

Canmore
10-21-2010, 02:43 AM
Sure.. I don't mind. Its Orton :D


Seriously though. If he's taking shots, I blame the OL, the blocking scheme, Orton for not getting rid of the ball, or the coach for not having the proper protection calls. The LAST person I blame, if ever, is the guy doing the hitting. He's SUPPOSED to hit hard.....especially on the QB.

I played QB. I understood, that EVERY player on the other side of the field ACHED to take their hardest tackle on ME. Every player, LOVED to hit me as hard as they could, and I knew that when they had the chance, they would hit me harder than anyone else. Thats part of the position, its just an understood.

I played quarterback too. The hits came with the territory, but the headhunting should be addressed. Deliberate helmet to helmet hits to a defenseless player should be an ejection.

FanInAZ
10-21-2010, 02:46 AM
A Card's player also predicted that there would be more knee injuries as a result of players trying to tackle lower.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-21-2010, 09:48 AM
I played quarterback too. The hits came with the territory, but the headhunting should be addressed. Deliberate helmet to helmet hits to a defenseless player should be an ejection.

In my opinion, I think this is the only thing that should be addressed, and it did not require a rules change, as this "supposedly" should have been addressed all along :confused:

Denver Native (Carol)
10-21-2010, 10:00 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16392370?source=rss

The NFL is a violent world filled with collisions that excite fans — and, at times, cripple players. In an attempt to severely curtail helmet-to-helmet hits that have resulted in concussions and knocked players out of games, the NFL has ratcheted up enforcement with heavy fines and threats of suspensions.

Commissioner Roger Goodell sent out a directive to each team Wednesday about illegal hits to the head and ordered all teams to show a video demonstrating examples of legal and illegal hits.

Former Broncos safety John Lynch said the NFL is trying to change the way the game is played.

"I think we genuinely have a commissioner who cares about player safety," said Lynch, who was fined many times in his 14-year career for late hits. "I think before maybe they paid lip service to it; maybe they were worried about the PR of it. But they now are to a point where they have data they didn't have five, or even three, years ago about concussions and head trauma. They're dead set on changing some things."

NFL football operations chief Ray Anderson said the league is not changing rules, but rather making a point to better enforce its rules. Lynch disagrees.

"I think there needs to be a little more transparency," Lynch said. "They need to just say they're trying to change things, that they are trying to change the culture, and that they need to be the standard bearer for youth football and high school football."

After a succession of violent helmet-to-helmet hits Sunday, the NFL began cracking down. On Tuesday, Steelers linebacker James Harrison was fined $75,000 and Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather and Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson were each fined $50,000 for hits in games this past weekend.

In addition, Anderson publicly warned that suspensions would be doled out "immediately" in the future for offending players, including first-timers.

"One of our most important priorities is protecting our players from needless injury," Goodell said in a statement Wednesday. "In recent years, we have emphasized minimizing contact to the head and neck, especially where a defenseless player is involved. It is clear to me that further action is required to emphasize the importance of teaching safe and controlled techniques, and of playing within the rules."

Goodell emphasized that coaches are every bit as responsible as players for making sure the rules are followed and failure to comply will subject the coach, and the team, to discipline.

"I don't think there's anybody out there coaching helmet-to-helmet hits," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said Wednesday. "I sure know we're not, and I don't believe in my heart that there's anybody out there trying to hurt other players."

Most of the hits drawing attention are directed at receivers who are trying to catch a pass in the open field in what the league considers a defenseless position. League rules prohibit defensive players from leaving their feet, or "launching" into a defenseless player or leading with the helmet to make contact with another player's helmet.

"A lot is made of 'we should punish, we should punish, we should punish,' and in some situations tell the player what to do in certain situations," McDaniels said. "I don't think it's being coached anywhere. Players just have to be smart and do the best thing to get the player down."

"There's so much happening so quickly," Raiders coach Tom Cable said. "To say someone is trying to do that is wrong. I think we're educating them constantly."

There is concern among players that those leveling fines or suspensions from the league office won't always be able to decide which hits were unavoidable collisions to both players going for the ball.

There also is the matter of the helmet-to-helmet collisions that occur on virtually every play along the offensive and defensive lines, and when a defender tackles a running back in traffic — a play in which the offensive player often initiates the contact.

"It may be to a point now where we need to just say we're fining for violent hits and that's it," Lynch said. "But football is a violent game. How do you make these changes? Because once you open up one thing, there are others to look at. You look at play in the line and linebackers hitting running backs, there is helmet-to-helmet contact on every play."

And defensive players, such as Broncos lineman Kevin Vickerson, understand the concern over potential head injuries but also see infractions they consider equally deserving of suspensions occurring on other parts of the field. An example is the chop block, in which an offensive player engages a defender above the waist while another player blocks the defender low, which can easily result in a severe knee or leg injury.

"All the rules are really set up for offense," Vickerson said. "Rules for going after the quarterback's knees should be the same for defensive linemen. You're taking years off a man's career.

"In the end, you have to just play the game, do the best you can. You can't think about what might happen if you tackle somebody. You have to do your job the best you can."

J
The NFL's directive on helmet-to- helmet hits mostly involves a defender hitting a receiver in what is considered a "defenseless" position. By rule, a defender doesn't have to make first contact to the offensive player's helmet to be subject to discipline.

Here is Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (unnecessary roughness):

"h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet, face mask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver's head or neck area — even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet, face mask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver's neck."
Goodell statements

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell's memo to all NFL teams and the message that will be read to all players and coaches. A video will also be shown to coaches and players.

Memo

"One of our most important priorities is protecting our players from needless injury. In recent years, we have emphasized minimizing contact to the head and neck, especially where a defenseless player is involved. It is clear to me that further action is required to emphasize the importance of teaching safe and controlled techniques, and of playing within the rules. It is incumbent on all of us to support the rules we have in place to protect players."

Message

"One of our highest priorities is player safety. We all know that football is a tough game that includes hard contact. But that carries with it an obligation to do all that we can to protect all players from unnecessary injury caused by dangerous techniques from those who play outside the rules. The video shown today shows what kind of hits are against the rules, but also makes clear that you can play a hard, physical game within the rules. Violations of the playing rules that unreasonably put the safety of another player in jeopardy have no place in the game, and that is especially true in the case of hits to the head and neck. Accordingly, from this point forward, you should be clear on the following points:

1. Players are expected to play within the rules. Those who do not will face increased discipline, including suspensions, starting with the first offense.

2. Coaches are expected to teach playing within the rules. Failure to do so will subject both the coach and the employing club to discipline.

3. Game officials have been directed to emphasize protecting players from illegal and dangerous hits, and particularly from hits to the head and neck. In appropriate cases, they have the authority to eject players from a game.

Bronco Bible
10-21-2010, 11:29 AM
change the facemask, they will have better tacklers & people wont be so eager to lead with the head.

GEM
10-21-2010, 12:55 PM
Look again, Atwater lead with his shoulder.

Some of the Cardinals D players were interview today about this new rule. One of them explain that a lot of the times the receivers cringe at the last minute, just as Christian Okoye did in the above clip. On the other hand, you may say he dipped his head in order to lay a hit on Atwater. In either case, what was not intended to be helmet to helmet can sometimes becoming helmet to helmet. Or in this case, a legendary shoulder lead hard hit. Also, the receivers are usually moving targets who will sometimes inadvertently move themselves into a big hit that they don't see coming.

When I was in high school, I was the 2nd tallest on campus. My best friend was one of the shortest guys. He would complain when I would inadvertently tackle him around the neck. My response back to him, "What am I supposed to do? Chase after you on my knees?" I remember thinking back to that when Bill Romanowski broke Todd Collins' jaw. Yes, Romo was a dirty player over all. However, I'll defend him on that particular hit. Yes, he dipped his shoulder. However, where would he have hit Collins if the hadn't? Up side his head which could have given him a concussion. So what's worst, a broken jaw or a concussion?

I think the point of those comments on the Atwater hit were to be facetious. That is not the type of hit that the league is going after. If they live with the letter of what they have said...there are no rule changes, just enforcement of rules that are already there.

I think we are all jumping the gun. My thought is to wait and see what the league deems a suspendable hit. We'll have a better idea of the need for all this uproar in the coming weeks as players are fined or suspended. I think it's all a huge media hype until proven otherwise.

Northman
10-21-2010, 01:43 PM
Look again, Atwater lead with his shoulder.

Some of the Cardinals D players were interview today about this new rule. One of them explain that a lot of the times the receivers cringe at the last minute, just as Christian Okoye did in the above clip. On the other hand, you may say he dipped his head in order to lay a hit on Atwater. In either case, what was not intended to be helmet to helmet can sometimes becoming helmet to helmet. Or in this case, a legendary shoulder lead hard hit. Also, the receivers are usually moving targets who will sometimes inadvertently move themselves into a big hit that they don't see coming.

When I was in high school, I was the 2nd tallest on campus. My best friend was one of the shortest guys. He would complain when I would inadvertently tackle him around the neck. My response back to him, "What am I supposed to do? Chase after you on my knees?" I remember thinking back to that when Bill Romanowski broke Todd Collins' jaw. Yes, Romo was a dirty player over all. However, I'll defend him on that particular hit. Yes, he dipped his shoulder. However, where would he have hit Collins if the hadn't? Up side his head which could have given him a concussion. So what's worst, a broken jaw or a concussion?


I was using sarcasm. Hard hits dont bother me one bit.

Ravage!!!
10-21-2010, 01:53 PM
I played quarterback too. The hits came with the territory, but the headhunting should be addressed. Deliberate helmet to helmet hits to a defenseless player should be an ejection.

this is a problem for me.

"defensless player".. what is that? A receiver catches the ball, and how long do we wait to HIT the guy before its not considered "defenseless?"

Then you have the "deliberate" part. Whats deliberate? By who's opinion do we listen to, to determine what is "deliberate" or not? Couldn't a 'non-deliberate' helmet to helmet hit be just as harmful? Do we call ANY other foul differently if its "deliberate" or not?

frauschieze
10-21-2010, 02:41 PM
I think we are all jumping the gun. My thought is to wait and see what the league deems a suspendable hit. We'll have a better idea of the need for all this uproar in the coming weeks as players are fined or suspended. I think it's all a huge media hype until proven otherwise.

I don't know.....

I'm usually less than thrilled with rule changes mid-season, because they smack of reactionary politics. The fact that the NFLPA has been pushing to address this in the CBA, during the offseason, only makes me more hesitant to accept this right now. This could potentially change the way the game is played, depending on how it's enforced. Waiting to really investigate the implications would be, IMO, the proper way to handle the situation.

I Eat Staples
10-21-2010, 02:46 PM
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3449/219b.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/219b.gif/)


is that a devestating hit?

:noidea:

looks pretty devestating to me. . .

Yeah, they're making hits like this illegal in today's game. Today's game is soft. They want games where both teams score over 30 points in a game. Props to Harrison and Urlacher for speaking out. I completely hate the direction the NFL is heading in, rules to protect QBs and now WRs are completely ridiculous. It's football. You're supposed to have "devastating hits".

jhildebrand
10-21-2010, 02:50 PM
Well the plays need to be called against the O as well! There are several O players who lead with their head and are looking to "punish" defenders. Adrian Peterson is a fine example. Shall he be subject to fine and suspension as well? :confused:

This will change the game in so many ways. The first is it will make it even more of a passing league!

The second is it might do away with the physical, punishing runners in favor of the C Johnson J Charles type backs.

The game is fine as it is!

frauschieze
10-21-2010, 02:57 PM
I really appreciate a good defensive battle. I guess the NFL thinks I'm in the minority? :whoknows:

Soccer is the world's most popular game and IT'S a low scoring game, Mr. NFL Official peoples.

I Eat Staples
10-21-2010, 03:29 PM
I really appreciate a good defensive battle. I guess the NFL thinks I'm in the minority? :whoknows:

Soccer is the world's most popular game and IT'S a low scoring game, Mr. NFL Official peoples.

I'm with you. I want tough, physical, football. I don't want to feel like I'm watching a Madden game.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-21-2010, 10:50 PM
Apparently this was the video which the league sent to the teams:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81b80962/Player-safety?module=HP_headlines

Ravage!!!
10-22-2010, 10:09 AM
WOW>. holy CRAP!!!! Thats worse than I thought!

" This play is Bang-bang, but the player is STILL responsible for hitting a "defenseless" receicer" This was talking about the Dante hit on the receiver in Philly. That to me was legal because he HIT with the shoulder and both got to the ball almost at the SAME time. Now he's saying hitting with the SHOULDER is illegal. This is absolutely ridiculous. Its absurd.

They want the defense to just let people catch the ball. They want the receivers to run free, catch the ball 'freely' because they are DEFENSELESS??????? thats STUPID. STUPID. Defenseless? This is so disappointing.

Ravage!!!
10-22-2010, 10:15 AM
If player comes at you, and lowers his head..... you can't tackle the body at all. Now you are asking the player to go for the knees... WHICH causes as many concussions as anything.... the knees hitting the helmets. Not to mention the increased danger to the leg joiints.

Bang bang.. and the player is still responsible for a SHOULDER to the head. Absurd.

dogfish
10-22-2010, 10:48 AM
" This play is Bang-bang, but the player is STILL responsible for hitting a "defenseless" receicer" This was talking about the Dante hit on the receiver in Philly. That to me was legal because he HIT with the shoulder and both got to the ball almost at the SAME time. Now he's saying hitting with the SHOULDER is illegal. This is absolutely ridiculous. Its absurd.



what they're really saying is any hit that looks bad on TV afterwards can be fined-- they're leaving themselves as much gray area as possible. . . the basic message is "don't hit if you don't want us to take gigantic chunks of money away from you, period". . .


at this point, i'd like to see goodell impeached and put in jail. . .

:mad:

Denver Native (Carol)
10-22-2010, 10:49 AM
On ESPN yesterday, "Stink" was talking about this, and he said - "what about when a defensive player is going at a player low - i.e. chest, but then the offensive player lowers his head just before the hit, and all of a sudden - it ends up helmet to helmet hit"?????????

Lonestar
10-22-2010, 11:01 AM
On ESPN yesterday, "Stink" was talking about this, and he said - "what about when a defensive player is going at a player low - i.e. chest, but then the offensive player lowers his head just before the hit, and all of a sudden - it ends up helmet to helmet hit"?????????

Just guessing here but that would be seen when they review the play in slomo and frankly I'd fine the offensive player for making a helmet to helmet hit.

Folks this is not brain surgery.

The NFL is not going to fine players that have not done this in the past for one single infraction unless it is egregius.

They are setting the bar and telling the cheap shot artists no more. Do it and your getting fined.

There can be a gazillion what ifs. Much ado about nothing.

They are going after the cheapos.
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Northman
10-22-2010, 11:12 AM
Just guessing here but that would be seen when they review the play in slomo and frankly I'd fine the offensive player for making a helmet to helmet hit.

Folks this is not brain surgery.

The NFL is not going to fine players that have not done this in the past for one single infraction unless it is egregius.

They are setting the bar and telling the cheap shot artists no more. Do it and your getting fined.

There can be a gazillion what ifs. Much ado about nothing.

They are going after the cheapos.
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Tell that to Duante Robinson.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-22-2010, 11:36 AM
Just guessing here but that would be seen when they review the play in slomo and frankly I'd fine the offensive player for making a helmet to helmet hit.

Folks this is not brain surgery.

The NFL is not going to fine players that have not done this in the past for one single infraction unless it is egregius.

They are setting the bar and telling the cheap shot artists no more. Do it and your getting fined.

There can be a gazillion what ifs. Much ado about nothing.

They are going after the cheapos.
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I disagree. They will fine/suspend any player they feel falls into what they are looking for. This is going to cause enough problems - there is no way they will "PICK AND CHOOSE" who they fine/suspend or who they don't fine/suspend. Could you imagine what would happen if a player with reputation gets fined/suspended, but another player who has never been flagged/fined for this before gets nothing.

Lonestar
10-22-2010, 11:38 AM
IIRC the NFL sent out videos to the clubs showing the coaches and players what is not allowable period. Just like any employer they are educating the players of what can't be done in the future.

As a side note, by doing so they cut down on their liability in case some dies.
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Denver Native (Carol)
10-22-2010, 11:43 AM
IIRC the NFL sent out videos to the clubs showing the coaches and players what is not allowable period. Just like any employer they are educating the players of what can't be done in the future.

As a side note, by doing so they cut down on their liability in case some dies.
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And as Stink also said last night - HOW are the players going to practice what they can do, when, during practice, the defensive players DON'T HIT THE RECEIVERS, RUNNING BACKS AND THE QB?????

In my opinion, all of the games this weekend will be very interesting, and more than likely, some may be very controversial.

Nomad
10-22-2010, 12:28 PM
I believe the fundamental of old school tackling is going down the tube and that's why tackling in the NFL and college is the worst since football has evolved! It's about the jawjarring hits nowadays where you hear that buzz sounds in your head and even your teeth hurt:lol: (been there)!!

If the NFL players want to be known as gladiators or warriors, I guess they have to play like them!! I have no sympathy for their injuries or the crippling effect football has on them the years after football. These guys are compensated very generously for entertaining us!! But I do believe high school football and below should be regulated a little more stricter !!

Lonestar
10-22-2010, 12:36 PM
I disagree. They will fine/suspend any player they feel falls into what they are looking for. This is going to cause enough problems - there is no way they will "PICK AND CHOOSE" who they fine/suspend or who they don't fine/suspend. Could you imagine what would happen if a player with reputation gets fined/suspended, but another player who has never been flagged/fined for this before gets nothing.

Once again I did not make myslef clear enough.

They are not going bypass a newbie IF it was a cheap shot. They will fine him as well but THOSE that have a history of doing it will get nuke to an extreme level.

But the first timer will not get the billion dollar fine like harrison does.

Contrary to poplular opinion most of these guys are not cretins that are not trainable they reached this level after being trained for in most cases since pee wee leagues.

they are not asking them to become brain surgeons. They are being held accoutable for taking cheap shots.

Anyone that does not agree with the fines are merely out of step with reality. Time to learn and move on.
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Ravage!!!
10-22-2010, 12:42 PM
Just guessing here but that would be seen when they review the play in slomo and frankly I'd fine the offensive player for making a helmet to helmet hit.

Folks this is not brain surgery.

The NFL is not going to fine players that have not done this in the past for one single infraction unless it is egregius.

They are setting the bar and telling the cheap shot artists no more. Do it and your getting fined.

There can be a gazillion what ifs. Much ado about nothing.

They are going after the cheapos.
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IIRC the NFL sent out videos to the clubs showing the coaches and players what is not allowable period. Just like any employer they are educating the players of what can't be done in the future.

As a side note, by doing so they cut down on their liability in case some dies.
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You obviously haven't watched the video that Carol JUST posted, the VERY video that was sent out by the NFL to the teams, explaining what hits were legal and which were not.

The NFL is not going fine OFFENSIVE players. It also, flatly states, that it does NOT matter where the defensive player is aiming, only what it hits. Meaning if a player is headed right for the chest, and the offensive player MOVES, its then up to the defensive player to adjust and move AWAY from the head. Doesn't matter if the defender hits with the helmet NOR the shoulder.

They ABSOLUTELY can NOT simply ignore a hit from a past 'non offender' and turn around and suspend a previous offender. This will ABSOLUTELY cause them more problems as it would then be "cherry picking" what players play the next week, when ALL hits (whether they are from certain players are not) are treated equal, and JUST as dangerous.

Also.. I'm not buying this "it protects them from liability" stuff. They've had the same liability in the past, and the players take on that risk when they sign that contract. This is about marketing.

Also, as Carol stated, Dante in Atlanta basically hit the WR from philly in a "Bang-Bang" scenario. THe WR and the defender basically hitting each other at the ball got there. Dante EVEN hit the wr with his SHOULDER, and it was used as an example of a BAD play because he hit a "defensless player." They want the receivers to catch the ball, make a move before you can tackle them.

Its NOT just "fined." Its do it, and get SUSPENDED without pay for a game. That will make a HUGE difference for teams, as well as fining a player HUNDREDS of thousand of dollar s for "accidentally" (he says that it doesn't matter) hitting a player's helmet with his shoulder.

Ravage!!!
10-22-2010, 12:50 PM
I believe the fundamental of old school tackling is going down the tube and that's why tackling in the NFL and college is the worst since football has evolved! It's about the jawjarring hits nowadays where you hear that buzz sounds in your head and even your teeth hurt:lol: (been there)!!

If the NFL players want to be known as gladiators or warriors, I guess they have to play like them!! I have no sympathy for their injuries or the crippling effect football has on them the years after football. These guys are compensated very generously for entertaining us!! But I do believe high school football and below should be regulated a little more stricter !!

well. at the same time.... old-school tackling involved putting your face mask right in the chest of a player and wrapping your arms. Thats illegal now.

Nomad
10-22-2010, 12:55 PM
well. at the same time.... old-school tackling involved putting your face mask right in the chest of a player and wrapping your arms . Thats illegal now.

True.....that's how I was taught and how we teach our kids!! Target (the numbers), Explode, Wrap/Grab clothe, Drive to the ground!!! Never knew they were making it illegal, how else is one supposed to tackle???:confused: Unless, I'm missing the sarcasm!

Ravage!!!
10-22-2010, 01:01 PM
True.....that's how I was taught and how we teach our kids!! Target (the numbers), Explode, Wrap/Grab clothe, Drive to the ground!!! Never knew they were making it illegal, how else is one supposed to tackle???:confused: Unless, I'm missing the sarcasm!

No. No sarcasm at all. Now they want you to tackle by hitting with the shoulder pad, first. Putting the face mask into the numbers, is leading with the helmet.. by NFL rules.

Lonestar
10-22-2010, 01:14 PM
And as Stink also said last night - HOW are the players going to practice what they can do, when, during practice, the defensive players DON'T HIT THE RECEIVERS, RUNNING BACKS AND THE QB?????

In my opinion, all of the games this weekend will be very interesting, and more than likely, some may be very controversial.

Not sure which teams do not hit OR tackle in practice but IIRC when Josh came to town he made iut part of TC and during the week practice.

All of these clowns at sometime in their careers where instructed how to tackle and wrap up.

Most of the bad guys just found out playing for thr kill shot was jigher playing.

Aiming at the head with your head takes a lot more skill than hitting them with shoulder and arms on the rest of the bodies (ten times larger). Really is a no brainer.

They are being paid big bucks to play a game not maim other players.

Again I do not see the issuse

Did I love to see atwater, lynch, dawkins lay the wood. Sure but times are a changing.

Time to figure out how to move with them

Fait acompli.
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Lonestar
10-22-2010, 01:34 PM
I believe the fundamental of old school tackling is going down the tube and that's why tackling in the NFL and college is the worst since football has evolved! It's about the jawjarring hits nowadays where you hear that buzz sounds in your head and even your teeth hurt:lol: (been there)!!

If the NFL players want to be known as gladiators or warriors, I guess they have to play like them!! I have no sympathy for their injuries or the crippling effect football has on them the years after football. These guys are compensated very generously for entertaining us!! But I do believe high school football and below should be regulated a little more stricter !!

With the evolution of better protection equipment. Better nutrtion over the past 50 years has lead us to this point.

300+ pounders hitting 200 pounders. Opposed to 230 vs 170. 50 years ago. High tech Plastic helmets vs leather of 70 years ago. Space age Shock absorbing materails vs extra layers of natural fibers.

But now the cretins are going for the knock out punch instead of wrapping up tacKles.
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Ravage!!!
10-22-2010, 01:52 PM
Its definitely time that teams invest in WRs. Apparently the NFL is going to be sure that the QB and WR can play pass-n-catch without the WR having fear of being hit until after he catches the ball. Since he then can't be hit, UNTIL, he is not longer defenseless... he can then just lower HIS head and shoulder and not worry about being tackled above the waist, for that will be contract to his helmet.

He will never have to worry about the d-back hitting him to dislodge the ball....for the rules specifically say that this will be not be allowed....for it hitting a 'defenseless' player.

Actually.. the more I think about it. The less a team needs a big-time WR. Any WR will do. Since they can't be hit, don't have to worry about going across the middle, never have to worry about the defender hitting them to dislodge the ball, and will always be allowed to catch the ball before being hit... the smaller the receiver the better. For that will put THEIR helmet in a much easier place to hit for the defender, thus making it MUCH harder for anyone to tackle them.

We could call it the " we need a penalty play, bring out the short WR." Similar to when a team needs a big penalty and will LOOP it up hoping for a PI.

Ahhhh.... the NFL is really making strides.

dogfish
10-22-2010, 04:21 PM
True.....that's how I was taught and how we teach our kids!! Target (the numbers), Explode, Wrap/Grab clothe, Drive to the ground!!! Never knew they were making it illegal, how else is one supposed to tackle???:confused: Unless, I'm missing the sarcasm!

you're NOT supposed to tackle any more, apparently-- just get out of the way and let them catch the ball. . . then you can run up and try to hug them to the ground. . .

Northman
10-22-2010, 04:30 PM
Im 40 and im going to move to Denver and become a walk on. I can at least run 5 yds and catch a pass before they have to tackle me. I just need a one year contract for the minnimum salary so if i take a bad hit to the knee i can retire. lmao

I Eat Staples
10-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Im 40 and im going to move to Denver and become a walk on. I can at least run 5 yds and catch a pass before they have to tackle me. I just need a one year contract for the minnimum salary so if i take a bad hit to the knee i can retire. lmao

They can use you next year during the lockout.

KCL
10-22-2010, 07:25 PM
Im 40 and im going to move to Denver and become a walk on. I can at least run 5 yds and catch a pass before they have to tackle me. I just need a one year contract for the minnimum salary so if i take a bad hit to the knee i can retire. lmao

Taking my advice huh? :D

Denver Native (Carol)
10-22-2010, 09:22 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b87c9a/article/vikings-edwards-among-12-more-players-fined-by-league?module=HP_headlines

The NFL fined 12 more players Friday, mostly for unnecessary roughness in games last weekend, sending another strong message that violent conduct wouldn't be tolerated.

Minnesota defensive end Ray Edwards was fined the most, $20,000, for spearing Dallas running back Marion Barber on Sunday. Edwards was cited as a repeat offender; he was previously fined Aug. 28 for roughing the passer and Sept. 26 for unnecessary roughness.

"I just got fined $20,000 for a spear that really wasn't a spear," Edwards said. "If you look at the last play, (Dallas tackle Marc) Colombo speared Jared (Allen) and I don't believe he got fined. If you're going to fine people, fine everybody. Don't just fine defensive guys."

The league did not fine Colombo.

Earlier this week, huge fines were given for flagrant fouls by Pittsburgh's James Harrison ($75,000), Atlanta's Dunta Robinson and New England's Brandon Meriweather (both $50,000). The league also promised suspensions for players who make illegal hits on defenseless opponents. A video was sent to the 32 teams explaining what hits are considered legal and illegal.

The 15 fines were unusually high for one week, a signal of the NFL's resolve to police violent play. Generally, either a $5,000 or $10,000 fine is handed out for roughness. In this week's total all but two were for roughness. On Oct. 1 the league also issued 15 fines, 10 for roughness.

Included in the latest penalties:

» New Orleans cornerback Malcolm Jenkins was fined $10,000 for two hits, one to the head area of Tampa Bay quarterback Josh Freeman and one out of bounds.

» Tennessee defensive end William Hayes was fined $10,000 for a late hit, while teammate Dave Ball was given a $5,000 fine for roughing the passer with a hit to the head or neck area against Jacksonville.

» Three Houston players were fined $5,000: guard Wade Smith for a leg whip, defensive end Adewale Ogunleye for a late hit on Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel, and safety Bernard Pollard for hitting a Chiefs player out of bounds.

» Philadelphia quarterback Kevin Kolb was fined $5,000 for a horse-collar tackle on Atlanta's William Moore while Moore was returning an interception.

» San Francisco safety Dashon Goldson was fined $5,000 for striking Raiders receiver Louis Murphy late.

» Minnesota receiver Bernard Berrian was fined $5,000 for a late hit on Dallas DE Jason Hatcher.

Detroit guard Stephen Peterman was fined $7,500 for a late hit on Giants safety Antrel Rolle.

» San Diego linebacker Antwan Barnes was fined $5,000 for unnecessarily striking St. Louis quarterback Sam Bradford in the chest and neck.

Harrison, who threatened to retire after the NFL's crackdown, was fined for his tackle of Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, who suffered a concussion. He also had a hard hit on former college teammate Joshua Cribbs.

On Friday, Cribbs told his friend not to change the way he plays, and that Harrison's job is to simply "knock people out."

Cribbs, who played at Kent State with Harrison, believes he helped persuade Pittsburgh's big hitter not to retire.

Harrison's agent said Friday he plans to appeal the fine.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-22-2010, 09:32 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b8779d/article/defenders-wondering-when-nfl-will-protect-their-safety?module=HP_headlines

Some NFL defenders are wondering when the league is going to crack down on infractions they see as equally deserving of suspensions as helmet hits, particularly illegal blocks that go on in the trenches.

There's the chop block, when a player blocks a defender low while he's engaged above the waist with another offensive player, and the cut block, where an offensive player dives at the defender's feet and ankles rather than his upper body.

Cut blocks are mainly legal in the open field where the defender can hurdle the offensive player but not at the line of scrimmage, where the tactic is particularly dangerous, sometimes causing career-threatening injuries.

These infractions draw flags and fines when noticed -- but that's not nearly often enough, some defenders complain. And in light of the league's crackdown this week on helmet hits, they're calling for the NFL to protect them, too.

"I think they are headed in the right way of protecting players, but at the same time, where's the protection for the defensive players?" Green Bay Packers linebacker Nick Barnett said.

Some players say the NFL simply doesn't value defense as much as it should.

Just look at all the rule changes over the years that were designed to protect quarterbacks and receivers, suggested Seattle Seahawks safety Lawyer Milloy: "Our league, every year they come in with new rules and it always seems like there's 15 rules for the offense and then one rule that might get put in for the defense."

"It's an offensive league. That's what it's changing into," Packers nose tackle B.J. Raji said. "You can't hit a guy with your forearms, can't hit with your shoulder pads, you can't do this, you can't do that. I guess the people at the top are offensive guys."

The NFL cracked down on illegal hits following three tackles from last week's games that led to huge fines. The league warned players that starting this weekend, even first-time offenders will be subject to suspensions for delivering flagrant hits to the head and neck area of defenseless opponents.

Players say they understand the need for safety but some suggested this escalation in punishment might ultimately have a detrimental effect on a game that is, after all, predicated on collisions.

"They're making the game soft," Denver defensive lineman Kevin Vickerson said. "That's really what it's doing: it's making more guys timid on the point of attack. I understand about helmet-to-helmet, player safety, but at the same time, you've got defensive guys tentative on the attack. That's all it's doing. It's another advantage for the offense.

"Already, they protect the quarterback, they protect receivers. O-linemen chop-block you, and they don't want to do anything about that, to protect the knees and all that. It's all offense. You want to talk about rules, we should look at the whole game and make the rules fit everybody instead of one side of the ball."

Vickerson speaks from experience. He missed most of his rookie year with the Tennessee Titans in 2007 with a torn ACL, the result of a chop block.

"All the rules are really set up for offensive guys," Vickerson said. "Rules for going after the quarterback's knees should be the same for defensive linemen. You're taking years off a man's career."

Defensive players argue that illegal hits on D-linemen and linebackers are common and dangerous but too often overlooked by officials, disregarded by fans and ignored by the league.

"I always see my big men getting high-lowed, pinned up and hit in the leg. That's just as dangerous as hitting somebody in the head," Miami linebacker Channing Crowder said. "... Shots to the knees, you can't play with no more knees."

Barnett, who's sidelined with a wrist injury, said defensive players are just as vulnerable as offensive players and are often the ones bearing the brunt of both the hard hits and the league's wrath when things go wrong.

"We have to protect ourselves. When running backs come through the hole, they're not running with their head up. Their head is straight down, they're trying to truck you. Are we going to address that?" he asked. "How are we supposed to hit them when they've got their head down?"

Barnett suggested the crackdown on helmet hits will tilt the game even more toward the offense's favor.

"I think the worst thing they should work on is cut blocks. How many people have lost their knees, ankles, thousands of things like that?" Barnett said. "I think the offense gains an advantage from the head contact (emphasis)."

One of the league's notoriously nasty hitters, Broncos eight-time Pro Bowl safety Brian Dawkins, said before the season began that the league's rules tweakers will always favor the offensive side of the ball because more fans want to see big plays than big hits.

"I mean, they'll say like Ray Lewis is a great defensive player, but how many points does he score?" Dawkins said. "Money, baby. They want to see touchdowns. They want to see celebrations in the end zone. The fans do. They don't want to see 6-3 games. They want to see big plays, big runs, so they've more and more and more and more kind of put our hands behind our backs as defensive players."

On Friday, Dawkins called the league's crackdown on helmet hits "ridiculous" because it's hard to avoid them with moving targets dipping and ducking a split-second before impact.

His teammate, defensive end Jason Hunter, said it might take some devastating knee injuries for the league to crack down on the illegal blocks like they have on the helmet hits.

"All I can say is I hope they will look at that and also take that as serious as helmet-to-helmet hits because you're dealing with guys' knees and lower extremities," Hunter said.

Nomad
10-23-2010, 04:56 AM
Seems to me the whining of NFL players (former and present) has brought this upon themselves and it started back with the QBs but now all the positions want their protection!! And now it's escalated to this!!

Northman
10-23-2010, 12:51 PM
From what ive read Edwards got fined for "spearing" so if that is true he deserved the fine. But i havent actually seen the play personally.