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WARHORSE
10-18-2010, 11:23 PM
October 18th, 2010 - 11:55am by mark_cooper


WOW!! what a game!!! If you were watching the same game as I was, you have to be impressed and excited at the baby steps taken with what I currently consider one of the best teams in the NFL.

Tough Defense, innovative game plan, got to see Tebow play and play well at a critical time in the game. CONGRATS on your first NFL TD!!! By the way, that’s really tough to do (come off the sideline cold and play at a high level) Keep that ball somewhere, buddy. Orton was spectacular, the receivers catch with their hands and I love it. The line made noticeable improvements and we’ll touch on that later. I had binoculars the entire game and watched footwork and hands all day.


Like we’ve discussed all year here, this team should get better and better. Baby steps to a championship is what it takes, and you’re seeing it. You might not like it yet because the record doesn’t indicate that looking from the outside in. It’s a long season, and we’ll have a few games like this go our way and few go the other. We’ll likely have another lapse and maybe a blowout on the other end…that’s what young (meaning playing together) teams do almost historically…but I love watching it happen because at the end of the day there’s a lot of satisfaction in the process.

O-line played better, but I did notice false steps and opening the hips on pass rushing giving the door to the defender, and D-lineman will pick up on that and start attacking the edge every time (look out). If you watch carefully, the Jets had as many as 6-8 guys at the line of scrimmage almost every play moving from one side to the other and back again, in the gap, on the outside, moving on the snap, blitzing early and late in the snap count. I watched closely all game. IMPRESSIVE strategy against a young inside group. I thought they handled it really well for a young group and they will only get better. It was fun for me as I visually went through the reads in my minds eye, not always knowing the call but having a decent feel by the way they blocked them or not in some cases. That was a tough front to block, promise.

Love to hear your thoughts and feelings on the game.

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mark_cooper/baby-steps-of-a-champion/




Im with Coop.

Looks like Im not the only optomist.

I like the improvements, and the coaching is bringing results.


BRONCOS BABY.

Northman
10-18-2010, 11:51 PM
Tough fought game but we lost, yet again. Blown opportunities, same mistakes as in the past, etc.

Shazam!
10-19-2010, 09:22 AM
with what I currently consider one of the best teams in the NFL.

Yeah... ok.

broncobryce
10-19-2010, 09:54 AM
Most of what he said is true. Arrow is pointing up
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Dean
10-19-2010, 08:54 PM
I saw some things that I liked and that I hope continues. However, it was one game no more: no less. You don't worry where the lightening hits until it hits in the same place more than once.

I Eat Staples
10-19-2010, 09:10 PM
I saw things I liked, definitely. But losing is never the way to a championship.

TXBRONC
10-19-2010, 09:58 PM
That's an awfully big leap to say that the game against the Jets was baby steps toward a championship. Yes they played tough but there were way to many mistakes and playing one good opponent tough isn't indicative of anything right now. They can't just play tough they have win for it to be truly meaningful.

PAINTERDAVE
10-19-2010, 10:00 PM
Yeah...

I like our chances for the second half...
but we have way too many areas of weakness and inconsistancy to be a champions.

But I have a great feeling about the rest of this "rebuilding" year.

camdisco24
10-19-2010, 10:21 PM
I share alot of the same feelings, but I don't think we're quite to being one of the best teams in the NFL. That being said, there are few teams that have as much potential as we do. We have alot of the tools its takes to be great, but we still have alot of holes to patch... Right now, I have alot of faith in this coaching staff to get us back to the playoffs.

Lonestar
10-19-2010, 10:30 PM
Have always said this was not our year, but IMO we are indeed moving forward in almost all areas.

Long way to go but as long as it is forward I have ZERO issues with that.

Shazam!
10-19-2010, 11:34 PM
Moving forward? Yes.

Building a contender for the future? Yes.

Lots of good, young talent? Yes.

I agree on all of that.

One of the best teams in the NFL?? NOT EVEN CLOSE.

TXBRONC
10-20-2010, 10:54 AM
Moving forward? Yes.

Building a contender for the future? Yes.

Lots of good, young talent? Yes.

I agree on all of that.

One of the best teams in the NFL?? NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Moving forward? In respect? Denver's record is not reflective of moving forward. I know that's what McDaniels is attempting to to do but the record doesn't reflect it.

Building a contender? It remains to be seen.

Young talent? Yes but again it remains seen if that will translate to production and wins.

What was it that Parcell's said some time ago? "You are what your record says you are." 2-4 teams are not considered elite.

Cugel
10-20-2010, 03:59 PM
Sorry Warhorse, but this just doesn't wash. The grim, meat-hook reality is that since the 6-0 start last season the Broncos have played a full 16 game season and they are 4-12 during that stretch. Until they start WINNING GAMES they aren't "improved." :coffee:

4-12 gets your coach fired. Period. So does 6-10.

Unless McDaniels pulls this team around and gets them into contention during the second half of the season (and I'm not saying he can't --- this is the AFC West after all where an 8-8 record might just win the division this year) he's going to lose his job.

I suppose that will come as a total shock to the McDaniels backers, but just because you don't hear any rumblings out of Pat Bowlen doesn't mean he's going to sit still and swallow excuses for another season. 2 years. Late season collapse that carries into the next season. End of story. Hire a new coach.

"We're improving." Every single losing team in the NFL is able to say this (well, except the Raiders perhaps). Hell the RAMS and LIONS and BROWNS and BILLS are "improved" -- and yet they are drafting in the top 10 every year.

And their coaches are regularly fired & replaced. You can criticize it, or dispute it, but that's the reality of life in the NFL. Win now. Or pack your bags.

8-8 (even without a playoff appearance) probably buys McDaniels another season. Probably 7-9 leaves him on the chopping block but with his head intact. 6-10 gets him fired. Anything worse than that? Absolute certainty. :coffee:

Don't believe it? Forgot about Wade Phillips have you? HIS teams had a better record than this one. He insisted that "Pat Bowlen understands why things happened." He insisted he's "not worried." Couple of weeks later he was gone. 2 seasons. Produce or else.

Lonestar
10-20-2010, 04:28 PM
Sorry Warhorse, but this just doesn't wash. The grim, meat-hook reality is that since the 6-0 start last season the Broncos have played a full 16 game season and they are 4-12 during that stretch. Until they start WINNING GAMES they aren't "improved." :coffee:

4-12 gets your coach fired. Period. So does 6-10.

Unless McDaniels pulls this team around and gets them into contention during the second half of the season (and I'm not saying he can't --- this is the AFC West after all where an 8-8 record might just win the division this year) he's going to lose his job.

I suppose that will come as a total shock to the McDaniels backers, but just because you don't hear any rumblings out of Pat Bowlen doesn't mean he's going to sit still and swallow excuses for another season. 2 years. Late season collapse that carries into the next season. End of story. Hire a new coach.

"We're improving." Every single losing team in the NFL is able to say this (well, except the Raiders perhaps). Hell the RAMS and LIONS and BROWNS and BILLS are "improved" -- and yet they are drafting in the top 10 every year.

And their coaches are regularly fired & replaced. You can criticize it, or dispute it, but that's the reality of life in the NFL. Win now. Or pack your bags.

8-8 (even without a playoff appearance) probably buys McDaniels another season. Probably 7-9 leaves him on the chopping block but with his head intact. 6-10 gets him fired. Anything worse than that? Absolute certainty. :coffee:

Don't believe it? Forgot about Wade Phillips have you? HIS teams had a better record than this one. He insisted that "Pat Bowlen understands why things happened." He insisted he's "not worried." Couple of weeks later he was gone. 2 seasons. Produce or else.

Yet wade was not hired to rebuild the team and change the total scheme of the game.

Pat is not stupid and even if the team does not have a winning record the loses will be compared to blowouts last year.

Knowing that he has Tebow in the wings and that Pat bought into drafting him, Josh has more than two years left to get this done. Unless they do not win another game this year plan on seeing him back through 2012.

Ravage!!!
10-20-2010, 04:55 PM
Yet wade was not hired to rebuild the team and change the total scheme of the game.

Pat is not stupid and even if the team does not have a winning record the loses will be compared to blowouts last year.

Knowing that he has Tebow in the wings and that Pat bought into drafting him, Josh has more than two years left to get this done. Unless they do not win another game this year plan on seeing him back through 2012.

McD wasn't hired to completely rebuild the team, either. We had one of the most talented, YOUNG, offenses in the NFL with what was considered to be the best OL in the NFL. That "rebuild" was a choice by the coach, and it sure wasn't in Bowlen's head that we would be void of all the offensive talent we did have, after a single season.

McD, as of right now, has made more holes than he's filled. Doesn't mean those won't be filled. But right now, instead of building up the defense and solidifying depth on the offense.... we are doing our best to try and fill what we've shipped off. Depth is horrible, and the scoring is even worse.

Tebow, "in the wings", may have bought McD another season IF this one continues as it has right now. But Tebow didn't buy another 2 years, because it was a BIG gamble and stretch to even draft Tebow to begin with (especially after using so many picks in the deepest draft in over a decade to get him in the 1st round). That doesn't extend your time in the NFL, not when you've already made a ton of bold moves that, as of right now, aren't panning out.

Losses are losses. This isn't the NCAA where the point differential makes a single bit of difference to the playoff standings. A team we lost to by three this year, can beat us by 21 next. Thats the NFL. Not getting blown out, in a season where the entire AFC West isn't good, doesn't mean much. As is, the Chiefs are showing a faster improvement despite having lesser talent to start the tenure. If you don't think Bowlen sees THAT, then you are fooling yourself.

PAINTERDAVE
10-20-2010, 08:12 PM
Wade Phillips was only hired as "second best" 'cause Shanahan was not available.
As soon as Mike came available... Wade was shown the door.

Josh will not be fired this season... not with the looming lockout.
Pat aint gonna shell out more big bucks for a new coach when
the season might not even get played or played completely.

Pat will want Tebow/Josh to have a shot.

Josh has another 2 years on the contract after this season...
(I think.)

I would be very surprised to see him go before then.

Canmore
10-21-2010, 02:10 AM
Josh has another 2 years on the contract after this season...
(I think.)

I would be very surprised to see him go before then.

I wouldn't. If we don't turn it around and start winning we will have a new coach.

gobroncsnv
10-21-2010, 06:46 AM
and then we can look forward to another change out of blocking schemes, passing offense, d coordinator, players who don't fit the NEW new system, and another waste of 2 seasons... dang, can't wait.

Lonestar
10-21-2010, 07:16 AM
McD wasn't hired to completely rebuild the team, either. We had one of the most talented, YOUNG, offenses in the NFL with what was considered to be the best OL in the NFL. That "rebuild" was a choice by the coach, and it sure wasn't in Bowlen's head that we would be void of all the offensive talent we did have, after a single season.

McD, as of right now, has made more holes than he's filled. Doesn't mean those won't be filled. But right now, instead of building up the defense and solidifying depth on the offense.... we are doing our best to try and fill what we've shipped off. Depth is horrible, and the scoring is even worse.

Tebow, "in the wings", may have bought McD another season IF this one continues as it has right now. But Tebow didn't buy another 2 years, because it was a BIG gamble and stretch to even draft Tebow to begin with (especially after using so many picks in the deepest draft in over a decade to get him in the 1st round). That doesn't extend your time in the NFL, not when you've already made a ton of bold moves that, as of right now, aren't panning out.

Losses are losses. This isn't the NCAA where the point differential makes a single bit of difference to the playoff standings. A team we lost to by three this year, can beat us by 21 next. Thats the NFL. Not getting blown out, in a season where the entire AFC West isn't good, doesn't mean much. As is, the Chiefs are showing a faster improvement despite having lesser talent to start the tenure. If you don't think Bowlen sees THAT, then you are fooling yourself.

Did not read past the he wasn't hired to rebuild the team.

Do you really believe that he did not share his vision of what needed to be done with the team to make it a winner with both Pat and Joe.

There is no doubt in my mind that he told them that most of the oline and coaches would probably have to go. That he would be installing the PBS that required a bigger, stronger, faster group of OLINE folks.
I'm guessing that he told them that Clady might fit into it as well as harris and maybe Kuper. But unless he saw huge strength improvements in C and OG they would have to go.

I'm also pretty sure they also knew that attitudes would have to change by any perchieved superstars.
That he sould be installing the NE spread and that anyone that could not handle this complex Offense would have to go.

We both know that in those 5-6+ hours of interview they did not chat about the weather and facilities only. They grilled him on what he wanted to do and by hiring him agreed to it.

Also by firing the co GM and scouting staff they further gave him more power.

They are not going to can him while the work is in progress.

As for Tebow Pat had to have signed off on him being Drafted and doing so also knew the risks and the time frame (2-3 years) of getting him up to speed.

Sorry but this is big business and solid organization that does not switch HC like underwear.

Unless we do not win another game this year he is golden thru 2012. Even then depending on the severity of the loses it may not matter.

He has done way to many good things and has this TEAM pointed in the correct direction.

That is how I see it as a manager and owner of a company.
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atwater27
10-21-2010, 08:09 AM
Did not read past the he wasn't hired to rebuild the team.


I didn't read past bla bla bla Josh McDaniels is a God, rinse, repeat..

Lonestar
10-21-2010, 09:47 AM
As for KC showing improvement sure they are. They have been drafting in the top ten for a long time and had a couple of really good drafts IIRC before the newbie got there.

The only players we have drafted that are still on the team are clady and Kuper from the past couple of years before Josh got here. IIRC. Posting from Dallas Love field.
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Lonestar
10-21-2010, 09:55 AM
Wade Phillips was only hired as "second best" 'cause Shanahan was not available.
As soon as Mike came available... Wade was shown the door.

Josh will not be fired this season... not with the looming lockout.
Pat aint gonna shell out more big bucks for a new coach when
the season might not even get played or played completely.

Pat will want Tebow/Josh to have a shot.

Josh has another 2 years on the contract after this season...
(I think.)

I would be very surprised to see him go before then.

Actually Pat tried to get Mike when reeves was fired. But mike wanted total control something Pat was not willing to give up at that moment.

So he settled for Wade whom the players loved and he is a top notch DC just to soft to be a HC.

When Pat saw this he bit the bullet and gave mike what he wanted.

But you are correct Pat always had an ace in the hole in case wade did not work.
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gobroncsnv
10-21-2010, 08:33 PM
At some point, Bowlen needs to put a stake in the ground, and say this is what our team is... and hire coaches who are willing to fit in. Get a tradition going, and then you draft along those lines, so that players that don't "fit the system" have to leave so that a coach can get the players who fit his philosophy. If you change out coaches every couple of years, without building any continuity, good luck climbing out of the hole that you keep digging.
P-burgh has that going on. If you look at their "glory years", the 70's, they are always having great linebackers, overall team is built around the defense, and to play in the Northeast deep into the winter... power football.
The Crows have the same thing going on, if not along with a better offense than (oddly enough) Billick ever fielded while there.
Point is, start building along a given line, and get players who fit that line. Not nearly as many holes to fill. The team has an identity. Continuity. Your subs fit that same mold. You can build from the draft instead of going patchwork with FA.
Is Josh the guy? I don't know, but it does feel like progress is being made. Pretty sure he doesn't have the oline playing like he's ultimately wanting, but I gotta hand it to them this past week for keeping in check a pretty darn good Jets front 7 last Sunday. Don't think he's got the running game he wants yet, but definite improvement last Sunday. Not sure what more you could ask out of a passing game. We can stretch the field, have been making more first downs. Better protection, but again, see above...
I think Josh is gonna be a pretty good coach some day. He's got his warts, but I think he's working on the identity thing, and is putting his effort into building this team long term. Said it before, some teams have turned a completely awful season to winning the next year's SB, but it's rare. The Rams did it, but where have they been the past few years? Are they on the mend again? Cards did it, but they are pretty much toast now...

So I say, yeah, you can call for the kid's head on a platter, but we'll be reshoveling the same dirt for a while. The front office needs to put a stake in the ground somewhere, and say, this is our team. We will be working to improve along these lines, and the people we acquire will be those who fit that MO, coaches and players... Then look for long term, continuous success. (cue the naysayers)

TXBRONC
10-21-2010, 08:58 PM
Wade Phillips was only hired as "second best" 'cause Shanahan was not available.
As soon as Mike came available... Wade was shown the door.

Josh will not be fired this season... not with the looming lockout.
Pat aint gonna shell out more big bucks for a new coach when
the season might not even get played or played completely.

Pat will want Tebow/Josh to have a shot.

Josh has another 2 years on the contract after this season...
(I think.)

I would be very surprised to see him go before then.

Shanahan was available because Bowlen offered him the job right after Reeves was fired. IIRC Phillips went to the playoffs in his first year as head coach and the next season going in as a Super Bowl contender Denver completely collasped.

I think if Denver's season ends up being a disaster McDaniels could lose his job irregardless of a potential lockout. If we finish something like 4-12 I think it becomes a very real possibility. Other than that his job is probably safe.

I want McDaniels to succeed because I would much rather watch Denver win games than lose them.

arapaho2
10-22-2010, 11:40 AM
and then we can look forward to another change out of blocking schemes, passing offense, d coordinator, players who don't fit the NEW new system, and another waste of 2 seasons... dang, can't wait.


not every coach is stupid enough to get rid of all the young talent the previous coach brought in...not every new coach rebuilds the parts of the team that aint broke, leaving them worse off

a new coach with intelligence will come in and leave what works alone, tweak it to fit him, and work on the problem areas....i dont know of one coach other then our present that would have came in and dismantled the young offense we had going, or have going now if mcd was canned

Dean
10-24-2010, 06:56 PM
Baby steps of a champion- RIGHT!:banghead:
:questionmark:

Ravage!!!
10-24-2010, 06:59 PM
Baby steps of a champion- RIGHT!:banghead:
:questionmark:

This is a HUGE step backwards.

This is a LEAP backwards. I haven't seen a 'baby step' since the bye week of last season.... and if we had any at all, its gone. We have jumps just to get back to what we were in '08

Ravage!!!
10-24-2010, 07:05 PM
Sorry but this is big business and solid organization that does not switch HC like underwear.

Unless we do not win another game this year he is golden thru 2012. Even then depending on the severity of the loses it may not matter.

He has done way to many good things and has this TEAM pointed in the correct direction.

That is how I see it as a manager and owner of a company.
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:lol:

Sorry.. but I don't see your opinion as a "business owner" to have much clout here. I own my own business..I've been self employed since age 22, and have run several other companies.

If you call this pointing in the right direction, then I'm guessing your companies don't have much growth.

You can 'guess' all you want. All your guesses, are purely based on your biased opinions. Thats extremely obvious by every statement you make.

You keep saying that he's going to be here THROUGH 2012? Based on WHAT? TELL ME ONE THING that describes improvement, and all the "too many positive things" that keeps his job? Just one. Thats all I'm looking for... ONE thing that has improved in his time here. ONE THING.

KCL
10-24-2010, 07:07 PM
well on a positive note the Chiefs won but we were exposed...we only scored 42 points...:lol:

TimTebow15MVP
10-24-2010, 10:32 PM
its crazy how that team from just last week disappeared. no fight no heart what so ever. same ole dumb ass mistakes. we didnt come out and play as angry as i thought we would. we came out and same ole friendly fire that led to the worst loss ive witnessed.