Tebow's Package

[ydave77]

Sorry for the poorly titled post Jagsbch, but there are no pics in the thread.

I mentioned this in the gameday thread, but curious to hear everyone's opinion.

If you notice during the Tebow package, Orton remained on the field, and lined up at WR. The DB "covering him" basically left him alone and shaded 5rds closer to center every play.

So basically you're playing 10 against 11.

Do you think there is much of a difference in loss of "flow" between Orton lining up at center, or being on the sideline one play. To me, the ball isnt in his hands, he is just going to be standing there, why not stand on the sidelines. Then at least the DB has to respect the reciever, and line up over him. Slants the numbers game back in our favor.

[silkamilkamonico]

I honestly think they are setting that up for the possibility to get Tebow on the field more, which means they can show that formation to get the defense to tip their hat, and then possibly audible Orton back behind center with Tebow lined up elsewhere. Maybe those were plays where if the oppurtunity presented itself they would have done it at that moment too.

[I Eat Staples]

Orton can be motioned under center while he's lined up as a WR. They did that last year against the Patriots from the Wild Horses.

[I Eat Staples]

I honestly think they are setting that up for the possibility to get Tebow on the field more, which means they can show that formation to get the defense to tip their hat, and then possibly audible Orton back behind center with Tebow lined up elsewhere. Maybe those were plays where if the oppurtunity presented itself they would have done it at that moment too.

Beat me to it. I hope we don't overuse this formation, though.

[Lonestar]

Sorry for the poorly titled post Jagsbch, but there are no pics in the thread.

I mentioned this in the gameday thread, but curious to hear everyone's opinion.

If you notice during the Tebow package, Orton remained on the field, and lined up at WR. The DB "covering him" basically left him alone and shaded 5rds closer to center every play.

So basically you're playing 10 against 11.

Do you think there is much of a difference in loss of "flow" between Orton lining up at center, or being on the sideline one play. To me, the ball isnt in his hands, he is just going to be standing there, why not stand on the sidelines. Then at least the DB has to respect the reciever, and line up over him. Slants the numbers game back in our favor.

I did not get it either and mentioned this same thing in another thread.

unless they are planning on throwing to him as he should be wide open, (IMHO would be a mistake chancing major hits at him), or a lateral to allow him to throw the ball. he needs to come off the field. as if they audible to have him come back to shotgun then the defense should have enough time to adjust.

[underrated29]

I honestly think they are setting that up for the possibility to get Tebow on the field more, which means they can show that formation to get the defense to tip their hat, and then possibly audible Orton back behind center with Tebow lined up elsewhere. Maybe those were plays where if the oppurtunity presented itself they would have done it at that moment too.



I actually like the package. I do not like running it out of the same formation everytime though. But if you look at it there are like 5 options out of it.

1- tebow hands it off, rb runs
2- tebow keeps it and runs up gut (worked so so)
3- tebow keeps it runs off tackle (worked so so)
4- tebow keeps it runs off tackle and does option flip pass to other RB (or whoever it was) that runs off tackle with him...basically the old option play
5- tebow throws pass to orton, like a flea flicker---Have yet to see this, but like silk said, I bet they are building up for this play.


If the flea flicker is what will happen, I think we could suspect the TE on ortons side to run right up sideline for a gain, or throw across field to wr or even tebow, or finally. Tebow throws to orton who then throws a screen to Tebow.



What I do not like about the packages so far, is that Tebow is never in there to throw a pass. EVER. The defense will pick this up and stack the box. We need imo to show that he can at leas throw the pass to keep them off balance, but once again this could be what we are building up for....

[ydave77]

While the idea of setting up a certain play is a good idea, a multi game arc for the payoff seems like a long horizon. We need to win games now. IMO the best way to get the most yards yesterday would have been with Orton on sidelines during that package.

[ogplife]

I agree that Orton needs to be on the bench for these plays. I understand what Josh is doing by keeping Orton on the field and keeping him a part of the action, but if its truly about the team I have a hard time believing those plays won't be more effective without another receiver on the field. I would love to see them go 4 wide with a back and Tebow (use big receivers in the slot to help with blocking). With that said there was one play that could have hit big where we faked a pitch right and optioned left with Tebow, but he slipped and only gained a couple yards. I think another thing that hurts the Tebow option plays is not having a running back with blazing speed. The Jets didn't seem overly fearful of him pitching it and if he did pitch it, I can't see either of those backs turning the corner for 20 plus yards.

[BroncoWave]

Sorry for the poorly titled post Jagsbch, but there are no pics in the thread.

I mentioned this in the gameday thread, but curious to hear everyone's opinion.

If you notice during the Tebow package, Orton remained on the field, and lined up at WR. The DB "covering him" basically left him alone and shaded 5rds closer to center every play.

So basically you're playing 10 against 11.

Do you think there is much of a difference in loss of "flow" between Orton lining up at center, or being on the sideline one play. To me, the ball isnt in his hands, he is just going to be standing there, why not stand on the sidelines. Then at least the DB has to respect the reciever, and line up over him. Slants the numbers game back in our favor.

:lol: Post of the year so far!

As for the rest, I agree with most of what has been posted in response.

[BORDERLINE]

i like this package when we do them on 1st down, depending how much we gain let's say 7-8 yards i don't mind him staying for 2nd down. but when it's 2 & 8 and you stand to pick up only 2-3 yards no thanks i want orton throwing, more chance of us getting the 1st.

[Jagsbch]

All Tebow has got to do is fake a run in the opposite direction and Orton is wide open to take it to the house...

Tebows first passing TD to Orton?

youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7yqTEiCk0A&feature=player_embedded#!)

[BroncoWave]

As most of you know I love Mcd but I lol'd hard at this comment:

"The Broncos got a rushing touchdown from Tim Tebow(notes) but I hate the idea of using a sub-package regularly, especially when you have a capable quarterback like Kyle Orton(notes). An above-average quarterback shouldn't be constantly looking over his shoulder. But Josh McDaniels is one of those modern coaches with a modern ego - he has to remind you that it's his offense that's beating you."

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Monday-Brunch-Tim-Tebow-zone-blocks-Kyle-Orton;_ylt=AlmuiPxchrhCO4eTv5eACom5bZ8u?urn=fantas y-277953

[UnderArmour]

Orton should stay on the field. He's the leader of this football team and this allows him to stay in the flow of the game. The Eagles kept pulling out Kolb for Vick and it completely screwed him up against the Packers, QBs just can't focus like this. My main issue isn't that Orton is in the game, but why aren't we letting Tebow throw the football in this formation? Seems like every time it is run run run run run, why not let him pass?

[GEM]

:shocked: I thought I was going to have to come in here and move this baby to the Hot Men's forum.


:laugh:

[G_Money]

Good thing Timmy's a good Christian boy - if it were me I might be tempted to loft a pass in Orton's direction so I could step in on Sundays while he recovers from getting crushed.

But if we're gonna use the formation, then Tebow needs to throw out of it at some point. It's not like the man can't drop back and chuck the ball somewhere.

Otherwise it's limited usefulness will come to an end sooner rather than later. We COULD use it to great effect, since most teams don't have an exceedingly capable passer heading up the run-option playset.

But since what we're using Tebow for in that position is to help a pathetic running attack, I don't see us using it to pass the ball even more - although I think we should, and that it would help us run from that formation even more.

We'll see. There's a lot of season left to experiment with.

~G

[broncobryce]

He will pass out of it soon. Its only been one game
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Tned]

Orton shouldn't be on the field when Tebow comes in. Unless Orton is going to run routes with Tebow throwing to him if the CB doesn't cover him, than Orton needs to leave, because otherwise it's 11 on 10 as mentioned above.

It's completely different in a Wildcat/Wild Hog formation where the QB stays on the field, because the key there is that they don't know until the huddle breaks if the RB or QB will be under center, which creates personnel problems.

The way Josh is doing it, he runs Tebow in, which gives the defense a chance to make a personnel swap, knowing they have an 11 on 10 situation, with only needing to 'keep an eye' on Orton.

If they are going to keep running Tebow in, give him a helmet with a green sticker, and let him play a series. What they are doing here is a gimmick and a weak one at that.

[Tned]

He will pass out of it soon. Its only been one game
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Two games. Jax week 1 and yesterday.

[I Eat Staples]

I can solve this problem with a simple solution. Keep the backup QB off the field unless the starter gets injured.

Didn't have to dig deep for that one!

[topscribe]

All Tebow has got to do is fake a run in the opposite direction and Orton is wide open to take it to the house...

Tebows first passing TD to Orton?

youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7yqTEiCk0A&feature=player_embedded#%21)

My thoughts exactly. They covered Orton initially, but got to where they were
ignoring him. The nearest defender to Orton was 11 yards away. At that point,
Tebow could bubble it to Orton, and it would be at least a first down. There is also
the possibility that Orton could back up and heave it downfield from where he is,
or flea flick it back to Tebow. Several different possibilities there.

Also, as McDaniels explained in his presser today, they could line up with Tebow
behind center, then suddenly shift Orton back there, and the defense has to play
it as if Tebow were still there. Tebow then becomes another threat.

I think they'll become more creative with it as they go along . . .


At the same time, however, I can't disagree with Tned a few posts up, in how
"gimmicky" it is. I was yelling at the screen yesterday to stop it and just play
football!

-----

[BroncoWave]

At the same time, however, I can't disagree with Tned a few posts up, in how
"gimmicky" it is. I was yelling at the screen yesterday to stop it and just play
football!

-----

Yeah, because scoring touchdowns sucks.

[I Eat Staples]

At the same time, however, I can't disagree with Tned a few posts up, in how
"gimmicky" it is. I was yelling at the screen yesterday to stop it and just play
football!

Agreed, I was doing the same thing.


Yeah, because scoring touchdowns sucks.

I sure was happy that it worked, but it's not something I like to depend on. Just like if a Bronco fumbles, and we recover it for a TD. I'd be happy we scored, but I'd rather score in a conventional way, rather than a flukey sort of thing.

[BroncoWave]

Agreed, I was doing the same thing.



I sure was happy that it worked, but it's not something I like to depend on. Just like if a Bronco fumbles, and we recover it for a TD. I'd be happy we scored, but I'd rather score in a conventional way, rather than a flukey sort of thing.

I like scoring. I don't care how it happens. And Tebow sure was more effective at the goal line than any of our RBs have been this year. How many times have we punched it in on first and goal by running it this season? That number can't be high.

[Tned]

At the same time, however, I can't disagree with Tned a few posts up, in how
"gimmicky" it is. I was yelling at the screen yesterday to stop it and just play
football!

-----

To be clear, I think the way they are doing it is gimmicky and not effective, but I am a proponent of getting Tebow in the game. However, I would do it more the way Oakland used Russel. Yes, he's now out of the league, but the approach they took was sound and he destroyed us. Put Tebow in for a series here or there. It gets him experience. Forces other teams to gameplan for two very different QBs.

[topscribe]

To be clear, I think the way they are doing it is gimmicky and not effective, but I am a proponent of getting Tebow in the game. However, I would do it more the way Oakland used Russel. Yes, he's now out of the league, but the approach they took was sound and he destroyed us. Put Tebow in for a series here or there. It gets him experience. Forces other teams to gameplan for two very different QBs.

I can't go along with that. The Raiders had nobody who was playing anywhere
near Orton's level, and while Orton is playing lights out, I would want no one in
there besides him at all, IMO . . .

-----

[Tned]

I can't go along with that. The Raiders had nobody who was playing anywhere
near Orton's level, and while Orton is playing lights out, I would want no one in
there besides him at all, IMO . . .

-----

I understand your point, and it's a valid one. I see it differently for two reasons.

Tebow was drafted to be the long term solution at QB. The more game time he gets that better prepared he will be when his number is called for good.

The Broncos have had major red zone poblems and Tebow brings a lot more options to the table in the redzone than Orton does.

[TXBRONC]

Sorry for the poorly titled post Jagsbch, but there are no pics in the thread.

I mentioned this in the gameday thread, but curious to hear everyone's opinion.

If you notice during the Tebow package, Orton remained on the field, and lined up at WR. The DB "covering him" basically left him alone and shaded 5rds closer to center every play.

So basically you're playing 10 against 11.

Do you think there is much of a difference in loss of "flow" between Orton lining up at center, or being on the sideline one play. To me, the ball isnt in his hands, he is just going to be standing there, why not stand on the sidelines. Then at least the DB has to respect the reciever, and line up over him. Slants the numbers game back in our favor.

The flow between center and quarterback? I would say no. If Orton and Walton had muffed several exchanges then I you could make that case but that didn't happen in this game.

I suppose a case could be made for interupting the flow of the offense as a whole because Orton didn't have a strong day passing the ball. This was his worst preformance but I think much if not most that can be attributed to the Jets defense because they are that good.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I have been cringing at the horrible , pedestrian play calling.

Against the Jets... I saw Josh get creative.

One facet of that creativity was his use of Tebow.

I'm all for it.

Now I just want to see Josh put his boot on their necks and STAY creative throughout the game...

Be a FINISHER, Josh!

You want to use Tebow?

Go for it!

Just win, Baby!

[rcsodak]

As most of you know I love Mcd but I lol'd hard at this comment:
"The Broncos got a rushing touchdown from Tim Tebow(notes) but I hate the idea of using a sub-package regularly, especially when you have a capable quarterback like Kyle Orton(notes). An above-average quarterback shouldn't be constantly looking over his shoulder. But Josh McDaniels is one of those modern coaches with a modern ego - he has to remind you that it's his offense that's beating you."

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Monday-Brunch-Tim-Tebow-zone-blocks-Kyle-Orton;_ylt=AlmuiPxchrhCO4eTv5eACom5bZ8u?urn=fantas y-277953

DAYUM! Do you purposefully go with colors that cant be read? Bold is your friend
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[rcsodak]

Orton should stay on the field. He's the leader of this football team and this allows him to stay in the flow of the game. The Eagles kept pulling out Kolb for Vick and it completely screwed him up against the Packers, QBs just can't focus like this. My main issue isn't that Orton is in the game, but why aren't we letting Tebow throw the football in this formation? Seems like every time it is run run run run run, why not let him pass?
Maybe MvD is using these times to allow TT to get acquainted with reading coverage/package/blitz, and given the choice of run/pass, depending on what he sees or thinks he sees. Seems to me he's still in the learning stages. But just my uneducated opine, like everybody elses.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[BroncoWave]

DAYUM! Do you purposefully go with colors that cant be read? Bold is your friend
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Huh? What are you talking about? I did use bold and yellow is the easiest color to read against a blue background.