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Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2010, 09:07 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16364903

Can faith begin with a lie? That's what the Broncos must believe now. They are not a 2-4 NFL team. Their record is a big, fat lie.

A year ago, Denver was 6-0, undefeated and unbelievable.

This Broncos team is stronger, a more legitimate playoff threat.

"I think this team is every bit as good as we were at this time last year and even better," Denver linebacker Jarvis Moss said Sunday, after an infuriating 24-20 loss to the New York Jets.

It sounds crazy. But could this 2-4 football team actually be better than the 6-0 version of the same franchise from 2009?

"No, you're not crazy," Denver linebacker Mario Haggan said.

The Broncos must awake this morning, shake the hangover of a defeat that could give a fiercer headache than five shots of Jagermeister, toss the shards of their shattered hearts in the garbage and find some reason to believe Denver can make a playoff run.

"I think a game like this is going to make or break our team," Moss said bluntly.

In defeat, the steaming anger of Moss was so real that listening to him fume was like standing with your face peering in the open door of an oven baking at 400 degrees.

"I can't say everything I want to say because I'll get fined," Moss said.

But the bad vibe in the Denver locker room was unmistakable. The Broncos clearly thought they were jobbed by a pass interference penalty on fourth down that set up the Jets with the football 2 yards from the goal line in the final 90 seconds.

As New York running back LaDainian Tomlinson scampered into the end zone, erasing a three-point Denver lead with what proved to be the winning touchdown for the Jets, many of the 75,000 incensed fans in the stadium chanted the all-American expletive until they were orange in the face, indicating their beef with the call by the officials.

OK, let's get one thing straight: Denver safety Renaldo Hill did mug Jets receiver Santonio Holmes on a last-gasp pass by quarterback Mark Sanchez. Was it interference? Absolutely. Guilty as charged. The Jets deserved to win.

The Broncos, however, own the talent and the schedule to win the AFC West. The crucial question is: Do they have the stomach to recover the emotional trauma inflicted by a tough loss that could fester until it turns to bitterness?

"Well, it can't be tougher to get over," Denver coach Josh McDaniels said. Why? "Last year, we were September and October champions, and it didn't get us anywhere."

A season ago, after six games, the Broncos were the buzz of the league. McDaniels had not only moved into the office of legend Mike Shanahan, the new coach burned all the furniture and broomed quarterback Jay Cutler out of town. But that 6-0 team was a beautiful disguise doomed to be exposed as a pretender.

These 2-4 Broncos have gone toe-to-toe with bullies of the AFC, picked themselves off the floor from a pounding by Baltimore and now get to mess with the softies from their own division. It only gets easier from here. The six teams Denver has played own a cumulative record of 22-11.

During his young career with the Broncos, McDaniels has never coached with more guts and brains than in this loss. He resurrected his team's rushing attack from the grave and found a way to make first-round draft choice Tim Tebow more than a marketing gimmick.

McDaniels might fail, but he won't back down.

Know what should linger when the sting subsides?

After watching his players go meekly in defeat against Baltimore, McDaniels challenged the manhood of the Broncos. Rather than bail on their young, feisty coach, they stood up and slugged it out with New York, despite the absence of injured Denver safety Brian Dawkins and linebacker Robert Ayers.

"You want to know my true feelings about this game? I hurt," Haggan said. "But if I didn't hurt, I don't belong on the field. I don't belong on this team."

There will be a temptation to throw dirt on these Broncos and bury them with a record of 2-4.

The pain is how we know they are alive.

BigDaddyBronco
10-18-2010, 09:14 AM
It's all based on how well they do against the AFD West. If they go 5-1 or 6-0 against the division, they will win it. If they go 4-2, the best they can do is a wildcard.

BroncoTech
10-18-2010, 11:25 AM
As Dierdorf pointed out yesterday since going 6-0 we've been 4-11. I don't think you're ever better than your record.

Northman
10-18-2010, 11:32 AM
As Dierdorf pointed out yesterday since going 6-0 we've been 4-11. I don't think you're ever better than your record.

Exactly. Losing is losing.

So far McD is 10-12 as a HC and 5-6 in home games. Just unacceptable.

BigDaddyBronco
10-18-2010, 11:33 AM
I'm still annoyed everytime we talk about going 4-12 since we were 6-0. Do they have the playoffs every 2 to 3 years or every year? We had some different players, different coaches, etc. last year. We are not the same team. Why dwell on the 2-8 ending last year? It's a new season, move on.

BigDaddyBronco
10-18-2010, 11:34 AM
Exactly. Losing is losing.

So far McD is 10-12 as a HC and 5-6 in home games. Just unacceptable.
I think you should fire every rookie head coach who has a bad first year.

Northman
10-18-2010, 11:35 AM
I'm still annoyed everytime we talk about going 4-12 since we were 6-0. Do they have the playoffs every 2 to 3 years or every year? We had some different players, different coaches, etc. last year. We are not the same team. Why dwell on the 2-8 ending last year? It's a new season, move on.

Because we are 2-4 now? Not much different regardless of players/coaches involved. Besides, when it comes to discussing a coach's tenure you cant just cherrypick what you want. Its the body of work that matters and right now he's not very good.

BigDaddyBronco
10-18-2010, 11:37 AM
Because we are 2-4 now? Not much different regardless of players/coaches involved. Besides, when it comes to discussing a coach's tenure you cant just cherrypick what you want. Its the body of work that matters and right now he's not very good.

Fire him tomorrow Al Davis.

Northman
10-18-2010, 11:38 AM
Fire him tomorrow Al Davis.

I never said fire him only pointed out the facts. :confused:

MasterShake
10-18-2010, 11:48 AM
I never said fire him only pointed out the facts. :confused:

Facts aren't always indictitive of the truth in the NFL. Our 6-0 record last year proved that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think we have looked better in some of our losses (especially against the Jets) than we did in our wins last year. Good thing we don't crown a winner in October.

As Lombardi said, "We didn't lose the game, we just ran out of time..." :lol:

The loss yesterday was devastating, but going in all I wanted was a physical game that we were in. It sucks because we should have won, but our record is what it is. Can't apologize for wins and can't dwell on losses. 10 weeks and and I would LOVE to see us finish strong for once.

If the first 6 games last year were a cover for who we really were, maybe the same will be true this year except the opposite. Could you imagine finishing 8-2? I'll take a 10-6 record. I think when healthy we can be a dangerous team, but we have to cut down on the mental mistakes.

Northman
10-18-2010, 11:57 AM
Could you imagine finishing 8-2? I'll take a 10-6 record. I think when healthy we can be a dangerous team, but we have to cut down on the mental mistakes.

It would indeed be nice but im one who is a wait and see and will be critical of McD and the team until they prove to me they can do it. Simply having blind faith that things will get better doesnt mean it will be so. Past history the last few years is proof of that. Its not up to me to have faith in what McD is doing. Its up to him to prove that he can be a winner and turn this franchise around. If that happens than i will gladly give him the credit and kudos he deserves but not until then. The mental mistakes you bring up have been a staple of this team the last few years. Again, until i see consistency in not only correcting those issues but winning i will be critical until he can prove me wrong.

rcsodak
10-18-2010, 12:14 PM
GREAT GAME! I heard plenty of good. Played a team that had on ly 1 TO in 5games(1st game) and the D CREATED TO's. McD challenged his Oline, and they did an excellent job protecting AND blocking. Successful onsides kick. Prater (9/11 50+yds career) a 59yd'r! Another TD fro DT.
Save for a couple fixable gaffs/penalties, I see a bright future!
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MasterShake
10-18-2010, 12:18 PM
It would indeed be nice but im one who is a wait and see and will be critical of McD and the team until they prove to me they can do it. Simply having blind faith that things will get better doesnt mean it will be so. Past history the last few years is proof of that. Its not up to me to have faith in what McD is doing. Its up to him to prove that he can be a winner and turn this franchise around. If that happens than i will gladly give him the credit and kudos he deserves but not until then. The mental mistakes you bring up have been a staple of this team the last few years. Again, until i see consistency in not only correcting those issues but winning i will be critical until he can prove me wrong.

I totally understand. The keyword here is consistency. Flashes of being a good team aren't gonna cut it in this league. Consistency on Special Teams alone would have won us the game against the Jets. We left 6 points out there on Field Goals alone.

Northman
10-18-2010, 12:19 PM
I totally understand. The keyword here is consistency. Flashes of being a good team aren't gonna cut it in this league. Consistency on Special Teams alone would have won us the game against the Jets. We left 6 points out there on Field Goals alone.

Exactly.

Watchthemiddle
10-18-2010, 12:23 PM
This is kind of like what people have said about the Chargers in the past....they start off just like they have this year every year and then run off a 10 in a row win streak.

There is no reason with the way our schedule plays out the next 10 games that we can't do the same thing.

rcsodak
10-18-2010, 12:55 PM
wtm just said 10gm winning streak! :D

I'll gladly take 1W!
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arapaho2
10-18-2010, 12:58 PM
This is kind of like what people have said about the Chargers in the past....they start off just like they have this year every year and then run off a 10 in a row win streak.

There is no reason with the way our schedule plays out the next 10 games that we can't do the same thing.


and the problem with the chargers is thier record against good teams..which was a loseing record

then when they get to the easy games they win em...get to the post season..and they cant win the good teams... they havent done nothing

a good team is one that wins the tuff games...agaisnt good teams

BroncoTech
10-18-2010, 06:48 PM
Honz if you are happy getting an onside kick that we end up punting out of the back of the end zone go stand in the corner. You're missing the point.

Oh well at least it's better than last week where the NFL highlight reels of Denver couldn't find one positive play to include.

atwater27
10-18-2010, 07:20 PM
For once, Broncos better than their record


Huh? Playoff team? It's called a running game. Playoff teams have them. The current Broncos don't.

BroncoWave
10-18-2010, 07:28 PM
Huh? Playoff team? It's called a running game. Playoff teams have them. The current Broncos don't.

Huh? All playoff teams have running games? Check out where the AFC Champions finished in rushing last year.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2010, 07:28 PM
Huh? Playoff team? It's called a running game. Playoff teams have them. The current Broncos don't.

Kiszla wrote the article - you might want to take that up with him.

Mark Kiszla: 303-954-1053 or mkiszla@denverpost.com

atwater27
10-18-2010, 07:31 PM
Kiszla wrote the article - you might want to take that up with him.

Mark Kiszla: 303-954-1053 or mkiszla@denverpost.com

So I take it you don't post articles that you agree with then?

atwater27
10-18-2010, 07:35 PM
Huh? All playoff teams have running games? Check out where the AFC Champions finished in rushing last year.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Oh I'm sorry, that must mean Kyle Orton is Peyton Manning. My bad. Why don't you look where the actual Super Bowl Champions rank. Refer to your previously furnished link for ease of reference.;)

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2010, 07:37 PM
So I take it you don't post articles that you agree with then?

I post articles so everyone can read them. Some I agree with, some I don't.

BroncoWave
10-18-2010, 07:39 PM
Oh I'm sorry, that must mean Kyle Orton is Peyton Manning. My bad. Why don't you look where the actual Super Bowl Champions rank. Refer to your previously furnished link for ease of reference.;)

So it went from playoff teams to only the Super Bowl champion? Sorry, just got a little lost in the backtracking.

atwater27
10-18-2010, 07:43 PM
So it went from playoff teams to only the Super Bowl champion? Sorry, just got a little lost in the backtracking.

Well let's slip it to reverse then. You pointed out the Colts made the playoffs with 80 YPG and 3.5 ypc. Dude. They have PEYTON MANNING. ever heard of him. One of the few NFL players in history that can win a game by himself. We had a guy like that once. You may have heard of him too.

The Manning led Colts are the exception, not the norm, you know this, stop pretending like you don't.

atwater27
10-18-2010, 07:44 PM
I post articles so everyone can read them. Some I agree with, some I don't.

Fair enough. I don't agree with the article. We are what we are. Averaging 2.7 ypc and 67.3 ypg doesn't exactly scream 'playoff caliber'.

BroncoWave
10-18-2010, 07:47 PM
Well let's slip it to reverse then. You pointed out the Colts made the playoffs with 80 YPG and 3.5 ypc. Dude. They have PEYTON MANNING. ever heard of him. One of the few NFL players in history that can win a game by himself. We had a guy like that once. You may have heard of him too.

The Manning led Colts are the exception, not the norm, you know this, stop pretending like you don't.

The Cardinals and Chargers also made the playoffs with a bottom 5 rushing game last season.

That's 3 of the bottom 5 rushing teams in the NFL in the playoffs. So yeah I guess you're right, all playoff teams have running games.

BroncoWave
10-18-2010, 07:49 PM
Also, 3 of the top 5 rushing teams missed the playoffs last year, and would have been 4 of 5 had the Colts not laid down for the Jets.

Running the ball is clearly the key to making the playoffs.

atwater27
10-18-2010, 07:51 PM
The Cardinals and Chargers also made the playoffs with a bottom 5 rushing game last season.

That's 3 of the bottom 5 rushing teams in the NFL in the playoffs. So yeah I guess you're right, all playoff teams have running games.

LMAO. Look at their AVERAGES per rush. Then look at the quarterbacks.

Then ask yourself, with whatever level of intellectual honesty you prefer, if

A. 2.7 YPC will lead us to the playoffs....

B. Kyle Orton is better than Kurt Warner or Phillip Rivers. Please don't make me laugh any more than I already have.

BroncoWave
10-18-2010, 07:54 PM
Orton is playing every bit as well as those guys this year.

Northman
10-18-2010, 07:55 PM
Orton is playing very well but he isnt quite clutch and that still remains the difference between him and the elite QB's in the league.

BroncoWave
10-18-2010, 07:57 PM
Orton is playing very well but he isnt quite clutch and that still remains the difference between him and the elite QB's in the league.

I don't buy that at all. His best drives this season have come in 2-minute drills. That's as clutch a situation as it gets. He was driving it down the field yesterday too until Walton decided to snap it into left field.

Northman
10-18-2010, 08:00 PM
I don't buy that at all. His best drives this season have come in 2-minute drills. That's as clutch a situation as it gets. He was driving it down the field yesterday too until Walton decided to snap it into left field.

He's had moments (last year against Dallas and NE) but its more 50/50 with him compared to maybe 90/10 for guys like Brady, Manning, etc. Look no further than the Jaguar game for that. We dont know if we would of scored a TD yesterday even if the fumble doesnt occur.

NightTrainLayne
10-18-2010, 08:19 PM
So I take it you don't post articles that you agree with then?

Dude, she posts just about every Broncos article that she finds.

And I for one appreciate it.

Northman
10-18-2010, 08:30 PM
I believe Carol is an insider so she does have access to stuff we wouldnt. I appreciate what she brings to the forum in that sense. Sometimes its a bit too pro-mcd for my taste but any Bronco news is good to read regardless.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2010, 08:44 PM
I believe Carol is an insider so she does have access to stuff we wouldnt. I appreciate what she brings to the forum in that sense. Sometimes its a bit too pro-mcd for my taste but any Bronco news is good to read regardless.

You believe that I am an insider, and I have access to stuff others wouldn't :confused:

NightTrainLayne
10-18-2010, 08:47 PM
You believe that I am an insider, and I have access to stuff others wouldn't :confused:

I think he either means the Denver Post "Premium" stuff, which for now you don't actually have to pay for, but just register, or ESPN "Insider".

I think you just do a good job of getting what's available out there posted so that us lazy folk can just find it in one place. :D

Northman
10-18-2010, 08:50 PM
You believe that I am an insider, and I have access to stuff others wouldn't :confused:

I thought you had mentioned you were. If not, my apologies. Not like it would of been a bad thing but i know some people who are espn insiders get access to information that most of the public cant. I dont pay for that service and thought you were one of them. My bad.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2010, 08:54 PM
I thought you had mentioned you were. If not, my apologies. Not like it would of been a bad thing but i know some people who are espn insiders get access to information that most of the public cant. I dont pay for that service and thought you were one of them. My bad.

Nope - I don't pay for stuff like that either.

Northman
10-24-2010, 05:35 PM
Uh, no they are not.

atwater27
10-24-2010, 05:56 PM
Lmao.