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View Full Version : Josh McDaniels is a GENIUS!



scott.475
10-17-2010, 06:13 PM
Offensive GENIUS!!!!:mad:

2-4 on the season/ YAY!!!!!

Shazam!
10-17-2010, 06:17 PM
I am devastated.

BroncoWave
10-17-2010, 06:18 PM
As much of a troll thread as this is, alot of this loss does go on McD today. We lost this game when we decided to try to kill the clock with a 3 point lead and a whole quarter to go instead of going with what had gotten us the lead in the first place. Most sickening loss in a long time.

jhildebrand
10-17-2010, 06:19 PM
I don't know how in any way shape or form you can pin this loss on McD.

This team had a huge uphill battle with injuries alone. They could have and should have won it.

2 snaps and two FG's would have won this game. The missed FG is understandable. The two bad snaps aren't.

broncofaninfla
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
We lost on a shitty call. Nothing more or less. I saw progress I the running game and it should have paid off in a win.

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
I don't know how in any way shape or form you can pin this loss on McD.

Everything falls on the HC for all NFL teams. Just the way it is.


This team had a huge uphill battle with injuries alone. They could have and should have won it.

Every team battles injuries man, this card is overplayed. Good/great teams face adversity and get the job done. Its what seperates the men from the boys.


2 snaps and two FG's would have won this game. The missed FG is understandable. The two bad snaps aren't.

Not surprising. Seen these same problems for the last 5 years. Nothing has improved despite the changes.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
Even I can't blame this on McD. The execution was poor. Orton has been playing well, but a LOT of his decisions today were poor. Threw a lot of passes at VERY covered WRs. We actually resembled a running game.

Can't put this on McD. The offense definitely let the defense down, though.

BroncoWave
10-17-2010, 06:23 PM
We lost on a shitty call. Nothing more or less. I saw progress I the running game and it should have paid off in a win.

He grabbed and twisted his facemask. How can you say that's a bad call?

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 06:24 PM
We lost on a shitty call. Nothing more or less. I saw progress I the running game and it should have paid off in a win.

Sorry bro.. but we GAINED that last TD due to a VERY VERY bad call. We got the benefit of THREE bad PI calls for our benefit. THe PI call against us at the end, was the right call. Can't blame the refs for this loss, at all.

scott.475
10-17-2010, 06:24 PM
I don't know how in any way shape or form you can pin this loss on McD.

This team had a huge uphill battle with injuries alone. They could have and should have won it.

2 snaps and two FG's would have won this game. The missed FG is understandable. The two bad snaps aren't.

He calls the plays, right? He has brought in his players and is responsible for coaching them, right? He has the worst running game in the league, yet loves the run on 3rd and long. How long does he get before we can blame him for the losses? Oh, and his $6 million dollar long snapper cost us a field goal.

silkamilkamonico
10-17-2010, 06:26 PM
He calls the plays, right? He has brought in his players and is responsible for coaching them, right? He has the worst running game in the league, yet loves the run on 3rd and long. How long does he get before we can blame him for the losses? Oh, and his $6 million dollar long snapper cost us a field goal.

Unless you are insinuating he's actually telling a rookie to snap the ball wide of his QB, and his S's to unintentionally grab the facemask before they catch the ball around the goal line, I'm calling you for what you are in this thread.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 06:26 PM
We lost on a shitty call. Nothing more or less. I saw progress I the running game and it should have paid off in a win.

We lost by 4.

Prater missed a FG--hard to put that on the coach.

We muffed a FG attempt--again, not a coaching problem.

Moreno fumbled in the red-zone--Coaching not at fault.

A dumb ******* referee gave the Jets the ball inside the 5 on a bologna call on a 4th & 6 hail mary--Coach has no power over that.

McD coached the team up well enough to win against a team that most everyone thought would do us in. So much so, that even a Broncos fan was osteracized on this very board this weekend for predicting a win.

As heart-breaking and painful as this loss is, I see a lot of good happening in Denver. We're heading in the right direction.

Dreadnought
10-17-2010, 06:27 PM
He grabbed and twisted his facemask. How can you say that's a bad call?

Yeah, that was PI. Crappy break, unintentional, but the correct call. I can't blame McD either. I don't know. Orton played pretty decently. WR's were near brilliant, Sanchez is an overrated chump, the defense contained the Jets running game for the most part, and we lost anyways.

BroncoBJ
10-17-2010, 06:27 PM
******* sucks :( ... The way I kinda look at it is against the Titans we got a PI call down near the endzone and won that game. And Jets got the PI call this week. So they cancel out :fight:

This sure sucks tho.

BigDaddyBronco
10-17-2010, 06:29 PM
I guess McD caused Moreno to fumble, Hill to grab a facemask, Paxton to screw up a snap, Orton and Walton to screw up a snap, and all the other ****-ups on the field.

Yea, it was all McDaniels fault. :rolleyes:

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:29 PM
I guess McD caused Moreno to fumble, Hill to grab a facemask, Paxton to screw up a snap, Orton and Walton to screw up a snap, and all the other ****-ups on the field.

Yea, it was all McDaniels fault. :rolleyes:

Well, technically he did bring all those guys in. :lol:

BigDaddyBronco
10-17-2010, 06:32 PM
Well, technically he did bring all those guys in. :lol:

Yes, fire him immediately.

turftoad
10-17-2010, 06:33 PM
We lost by 4.

Prater missed a FG--hard to put that on the coach.

We muffed a FG attempt--again, not a coaching problem.

Moreno fumbled in the red-zone--Coaching not at fault.

A dumb ******* referee gave the Jets the ball inside the 5 on a bologna call on a 4th & 6 hail mary--Coach has no power over that.

McD coached the team up well enough to win against a team that most everyone thought would do us in. So much so, that even a Broncos fan was osteracized on this very board this weekend for predicting a win.

As heart-breaking and painful as this loss is, I see a lot of good happening in Denver. We're heading in the right direction.


Yes, it was a heartbreaking lose. The Defense played very well.

However, we are not headed in the right direction.

A loss is a loss. Thats the way it shows up in the win/loss column. Thats backwards. Not the right direction.

We did play better than I thought we would.

SoCalImport
10-17-2010, 06:34 PM
I can't believe folks are calling that PI on Hill a bad call. incidental face mask is still a facemask and in this case big time pass interference.
I'm not a fan of the offensive playcalling in this game or of Ortons staring down Lloyd.
Tough game played by both sides.
The Jets are a better team, but we were in a position to win this one.

Poet
10-17-2010, 06:35 PM
Last year you guys got some wins that you probably shouldn't have. You lost a game today that you probably shouldn't have.

'Luck', karma or flukes even out.

Honestly I think that this year you take all the positives you can get and then next year is the make or break season for McDaniels and this team.

BigDaddyBronco
10-17-2010, 06:35 PM
Yes, it was a heartbreaking lose. The Defense played very well.

However, we are not headed in the right direction.

A loss is a loss. Thats the way it shows up in the win/loss column. Thats backwards. Not the right direction.

We did play better than I thought we would.
Under Shanny we would have lost that game by 24 points. We have been in every game but one this season and all have hinged on a few plays here and there. We haven't been outclassed or looked silly out there except for the Ravens game and our run game when Moreno was hurt. Yes, that is progress.

scott.475
10-17-2010, 06:36 PM
Okay, at what point is our losing record the coaches fault? McD gets to make personnel decisions here. He brought in Moreno who has a fumbling problem, he replaced Mike Leach with his guy, who muffed a snap today (I am not hung up on this, just that it was his move), and on and on. This team is McD's team, his personnel, his play calls, his training camps and practices, etc. At what point do these losses become his fault? Isn't it his fault if they aren't being coached right in practice? Isn't it his fault when we have lousy play calling under 2 minutes? Isn't it his fault when his personnel aren't doing what he brought them in to do?

People can attack me all they want I suppose, but I am now officially pissed at our performance this year. I have tried to be patient, but just can't be anymore. I hate that we have a losing record, I hate that we are worse than last year, I hate that we share the same losing record with every team in our division except the Chiefs. But hey, maybe we should give McD a lifetime contract since none of this is his fault.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 06:36 PM
Yes, it was a heartbreaking lose. The Defense played very well.

However, we are not headed in the right direction.

A loss is a loss. Thats the way it shows up in the win/loss column. Thats backwards. Not the right direction.

We did play better than I thought we would.

We were basically one play away from beating the now 5-1 Jets. That is IMMENSELY better than where we were in December of last season.

cuzz4169
10-17-2010, 06:37 PM
It wasnt a bad call..the call couldve gone either way...I think he shouldnt have thrown the flag the wr was falling as was hill. no way he makes the catch anyways a no call is the right call...not a ref deciding the game.

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:37 PM
Under Shanny we would have lost that game by 24 points. We have been in every game but one this season and all have hinged on a few plays here and there. We haven't been outclassed or looked silly out there except for the Ravens game and our run game when Moreno was hurt. Yes, that is progress.

:lol:

Gimme a break. Losing is losing.

Dreadnought
10-17-2010, 06:37 PM
I can't believe folks are calling that PI on Hill a bad call. incidental face mask is still a facemask and in this case big time pass interference.
I'm not a fan of the offensive playcalling in this game or of Ortons staring down Lloyd.
Tough game played by both sides.
The Jets are a better team, but we were in a position to win this one.

Should have won the damned thing. I'm not sold that the Jets are the next big powerhouse either; Sanchez is a third rater, and that buck toothed loudmouthed jackass of a HC of theirs irritates hell out of me. Watching him happy at the end made this even worse.

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:39 PM
Jets are good. Ryan is a good coach and Sanchez will be a fine QB.

McD lit a fire under the team after last week but in the end the same mental mistakes, turnovers, etc rear their ugly head and we continue to lose.

turftoad
10-17-2010, 06:40 PM
Under Shanny we would have lost that game by 24 points. We have been in every game but one this season and all have hinged on a few plays here and there. We haven't been outclassed or looked silly out there except for the Ravens game and our run game when Moreno was hurt. Yes, that is progress.


2-4

And BDB, we have no idea how this would have turned out if Shanny was coaching this game. It doesn't matter anyway. He wasn't.

We found a way to lose, thats all I know. Like I said, we played better than I thought we would today.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 06:41 PM
Okay, at what point is our losing record the coaches fault? McD gets to make personnel decisions here. He brought in Moreno who has a fumbling problem, he replaced Mike Leach with his guy, who muffed a snap today (I am not hung up on this, just that it was his move), and on and on. This team is McD's team, his personnel, his play calls, his training camps and practices, etc. At what point do these losses become his fault? Isn't it his fault if they aren't being coached right in practice? Isn't it his fault when we have lousy play calling under 2 minutes? Isn't it his fault when his personnel aren't doing what he brought them in to do?

People can attack me all they want I suppose, but I am now officially pissed at our performance this year. I have tried to be patient, but just can't be anymore. I hate that we have a losing record, I hate that we are worse than last year, I hate that we share the same losing record with every team in our division except the Chiefs. But hey, maybe we should give McD a lifetime contract since none of this is his fault.

Of course it all comes down on his shoulders. But you started a very sarcastic thread titled "McDaniels is a GENIUS". That's not a logical argument on his coaching as a whole, but an insulting, sarcastic remark meant to belittle those of us who happen to like or at the very least try to support McD as our Head coach.

Nobody's attacked you I don't think either, and nobody's calling for a lifetime contract. Let's just try to actually base the arguments off of facts and/or logic instead of emotion.

Tned
10-17-2010, 06:43 PM
We lost by 4.

Prater missed a FG--hard to put that on the coach.

We muffed a FG attempt--again, not a coaching problem.

Moreno fumbled in the red-zone--Coaching not at fault.

A dumb ******* referee gave the Jets the ball inside the 5 on a bologna call on a 4th & 6 hail mary--Coach has no power over that.

McD coached the team up well enough to win against a team that most everyone thought would do us in. So much so, that even a Broncos fan was osteracized on this very board this weekend for predicting a win.

As heart-breaking and painful as this loss is, I see a lot of good happening in Denver. We're heading in the right direction.

Agree with all of that except the PI call. It was a good call and clear PI. You can't grab a WR's facemask and move his head 3-4" when pulling on it.

Also, you should add the two dropped INTs on the first drive (Champ and Cox), which would have led to at least 3 points.

scott.475
10-17-2010, 06:44 PM
Nobody's attacked you I don't think either, and nobody's calling for a lifetime contract. Let's just try to actually base the arguments off of facts and/or logic instead of emotion.

Okay, I appreciate that. I am definitely emotional now, pretty pissed. But, didn't we bring him in as the offensive genius responsible for the Pats success the previous several years? It is killing me!!! I wanted to be on his side this year, I really did, but he just isn't getting it done somehow.

And FWIW NTL, and I mean this honestly, I did not make my original post as any kind of attack against anyone on this board who strongly supports McD, I posted it out of anger toward him and today's loss, nothing more. I don't want anyone here to take it as a personal attack against them for supporting McD.

BigDaddyBronco
10-17-2010, 06:46 PM
2-4

And BDB, we have no idea how this would have turned out if Shanny was coaching this game. It doesn't matter anyway. He wasn't.

We found a way to lose, thats all I know. Like I said, we played better than I thought we would today.
And that is not a reason for optimism?

I knew we would struggle with their blitz, but I was happy with the way McD made changes with the run game and had the best day running the ball all year against a very good defense.

I was really happy with the defense other than a couple of plays. With all the injuries and being forced to run the 4-3 with the players he had, they held their own. If Hill hadn't of grabbed the facemask would we have won? Who knows?

All I know is that if a few things are fixed, we get healthy, and our OLine continues to gel, we should be better and have a pretty good chance after this tough stretch to start the season.

That's just my take. If we end up less than 8-8 I'll be mad unless something unforseen like Orton getting hurt happens. This team should be at least be 8-8 this year.

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:46 PM
Okay, I appreciate that. I am definitely emotional now, pretty pissed. But, didn't we bring him in as the offensive genius responsible for the Pats success the previous several years? It is killing me!!! I wanted to be on his side this year, I really did, but he just isn't getting it done somehow.

It didnt help watching the Pats comeback and beat the Ravens today either.

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:48 PM
This team should be at least be 8-8 this year.

They should actually be better than that. But if they finish 8-8 at least he wouldnt have regressed.

PAINTERDAVE
10-17-2010, 06:50 PM
As much of a troll thread as this is, alot of this loss does go on McD today. We lost this game when we decided to try to kill the clock with a 3 point lead and a whole quarter to go instead of going with what had gotten us the lead in the first place. Most sickening loss in a long time.

Exactly. I hop[e Josh sees the reality of the bad choice of going into a "prevent offense".

BigDaddyBronco
10-17-2010, 06:50 PM
They should actually be better than that. But if they finish 8-8 at least he wouldnt have regressed.
I was thinking 9-7 after Doom got hurt, it's still a possibility, but this is one game I predicted they would win for a 9-7 season.

We still have all 6 AFC west games to play, things could change fast.

Northman
10-17-2010, 06:50 PM
I was thinking 9-7 after Doom got hurt, it's still a possibility, but this is one game I predicted they would win for a 9-7 season.

We still have all 6 AFC west games to play, things could change fast.

For better or worse.

Peerless
10-17-2010, 06:50 PM
Maybe we'll be 6-10 division champs. Damn, I'd be a proud fan.


Sike.

PAINTERDAVE
10-17-2010, 06:52 PM
McD did , however, have a great game... creative playcalling... real good coaching job...

right up until those 2 series before the final drive.

Then he reverted to his pedestrian, unimaginative, predictable ways.

PAINTERDAVE
10-17-2010, 06:56 PM
Yeah... this loss was a far more positive loss than last weeks loss.

I was impressed with the valiant effort of a wounded squad.

Kudos to the players...
kudos to Josh for getting more creative.

Now let's hope it all comes together next week.

Peerless
10-17-2010, 07:12 PM
McD did , however, have a great game... creative playcalling... real good coaching job...

right up until those 2 series before the final drive.

Then he reverted to his pedestrian, unimaginative, predictable ways.

And we wonder why we can't finish games.

Foochacho
10-17-2010, 07:13 PM
McD did , however, have a great game... creative playcalling... real good coaching job...

right up until those 2 series before the final drive.

Then he reverted to his pedestrian, unimaginative, predictable ways.

Exactly, how many times are we going to put Tebow in for 2 plays in a row and have him run it. Totally predictable and a drive killer. Keep taking Orton out and have him come back in and try a 3rd down pass to our completely covered receivers. McDaniels did a great job early on but failed in the second half he became his same old predictable self and couldn't manage this game well enough to get a win.

Usually we are sick of seeing all of the screen passes but today I question why we didn't try any. Late in the game would of been perfect for it to keep the drives going and to switch it up. It could of been real effective with Tebow in. You sold them on Tebow running so why not dump one off outside?

Foochacho
10-17-2010, 07:16 PM
Losses like this are the worst. The ones that feel like you have/or should have control of the game and are waiting for the offense to get some good drives and put it in the bag with a few more points. Then it all comes tumbling down:tsk:.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 07:20 PM
Agree with all of that except the PI call. It was a good call and clear PI. You can't grab a WR's facemask and move his head 3-4" when pulling on it.

Also, you should add the two dropped INTs on the first drive (Champ and Cox), which would have led to at least 3 points.

It should have probably been a no-call. Receiver was falling down, and in way in position to catch it. Yes, he unintentionally got his had caught on the face-mask, but it did not impede the receiver's ability to catch the ball. .. he wasn't going to catch it anyway.

Even so, still that has nothing to do with McD's "Genius" or lack thereof.

Pass interference? Yes, but it should have been a no call imo.

I didn't see the first drive, but the Jets didn't score on it anyways so it's hard to say that was a big game-changer.

Tned
10-17-2010, 07:23 PM
It should have probably been a no-call. Receiver was falling down, and in way in position to catch it. Yes, he unintentionally got his had caught on the face-mask, but it did not impede the receiver's ability to catch the ball. .. he wasn't going to catch it anyway.

Even so, still that has nothing to do with McD's "Genius" or lack thereof.

Pass interference? Yes, but it should have been a no call imo.

I didn't see the first drive, but the Jets didn't score on it anyways so it's hard to say that was a big game-changer.

Wasn't going to catch it? Even with his head/eyes being pulled away from the ball, he nearly caught it. The ball hit and then went through Holmes hands. The yank on the face mask, intentional or not, likely prevented an incompletion.

Northman
10-17-2010, 07:24 PM
It should have probably been a no-call. Receiver was falling down, and in way in position to catch it. Yes, he unintentionally got his had caught on the face-mask, but it did not impede the receiver's ability to catch the ball. .. he wasn't going to catch it anyway.

Even so, still that has nothing to do with McD's "Genius" or lack thereof.

Pass interference? Yes, but it should have been a no call imo.

I didn't see the first drive, but the Jets didn't score on it anyways so it's hard to say that was a big game-changer.

Grabbing the facemask while in the act of defending a pass is indeed PI. I know if that had been a Bronco receiver you would feel differently. Its completely obvious PI and actually turned Holmes head around which indeed effects the ability to make the catch. My god what has happened to this board today.

sneakers
10-17-2010, 07:26 PM
Yay! Another thread!

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 07:28 PM
Wasn't going to catch it? Even with his head/eyes being pulled away from the ball, he nearly caught it. The ball hit and then went through Holmes hands. The yank on the face mask, intentional or not, likely prevented an incompletion.

I'll have to take your word for it. I didn't have the benefit of DVR replay, just watching it on a medium quality stream because it wasn't shown here.

Even so, as I said, that was a pivotal play, but in no way can you say it has anything to do with McD's coaching.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 07:29 PM
Grabbing the facemask while in the act of defending a pass is indeed PI. I know if that had been a Bronco receiver you would feel differently. Its completely obvious PI and actually turned Holmes head around which indeed effects the ability to make the catch. My god what has happened to this board today.

See post above. I must be in the wrong.

Tned
10-17-2010, 07:32 PM
I'll have to take your word for it. I didn't have the benefit of DVR replay, just watching it on a medium quality stream because it wasn't shown here.

Even so, as I said, that was a pivotal play, but in no way can you say it has anything to do with McD's coaching.

I'm watching a show with the wife, when it's over, I'll go rip that play and you will see. I initially cursed the call, then on replay I realized it was a good call. Didn't like it -- it was a back breaker -- but, it was a good call.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 07:34 PM
I'm watching a show with the wife, when it's over, I'll go rip that play and you will see. I initially cursed the call, then on replay I realized it was a good call. Didn't like it -- it was a back breaker -- but, it was a good call.

Most of my opinion was based on Dave Logan's radio call. I was listening to the KOA call while watching the stream. Both Logan and Griese were highly critical of the call. Both, basically said what I have said here. Yes it was PI, but it should have been a no call.

You don't have to rip anything, I take your word for it, it's not worth the effort.

Mike
10-17-2010, 07:35 PM
I'm watching a show with the wife, when it's over, I'll go rip that play and you will see. I initially cursed the call, then on replay I realized it was a good call. Didn't like it -- it was a back breaker -- but, it was a good call.

I had the same reaction. Thought they were both looking back for the ball and they were fighting for it. Which they should be allowed to do. But seeing the hook on the facemask on the replay changed my opinion.

Also, I wish they would change the PI penalty back to 15 yards.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 07:46 PM
Grabbing the facemask while in the act of defending a pass is indeed PI. I know if that had been a Bronco receiver you would feel differently. Its completely obvious PI and actually turned Holmes head around which indeed effects the ability to make the catch. My god what has happened to this board today.

Not to mention, his hand didn't just brush across the facemask.. it grabbed enough to turn the guys head. It absolutely, without a DOUBT, indeniably, was the right call.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 07:55 PM
even though I already said I don't believe it to be a McD's problem, if all we are going to do is list out the "technical" things the team didn't do right (fumbling, throwing to covered WRs, missed snaps)...those very well COULD be a coaching problem. Just as penalties on your team could be a coaching problem (not referring tothe unintentional face mask PI).

I mean, if we are going to say that the bad mistakes aren't a coaching problem, then we sure as heck can't give the coaching staff credit when a player makes an incredible play and scores. Yet we do that as well. :whoknows:

broncofaninfla
10-17-2010, 07:58 PM
I read enough on this thread to know I have to watch my DVR when I haven't been drinking beer all day watching football. I can tell you I thought it was a BS call as did 4 other Broncos fans I met just today. Call aside I was happy with the effort of the team and the slight progress shown on offense running the ball.

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2010, 08:00 PM
even though I already said I don't believe it to be a McD's problem, if all we are going to do is list out the "technical" things the team didn't do right (fumbling, throwing to covered WRs, missed snaps)...those very well COULD be a coaching problem. Just as penalties on your team could be a coaching problem (not referring tothe unintentional face mask PI).

I mean, if we are going to say that the bad mistakes aren't a coaching problem, then we sure as heck can't give the coaching staff credit when a player makes an incredible play and scores. Yet we do that as well. :whoknows:

There's some truth to that, but in the end, all the coaching staff can do is make sure that the players are prepared well, and put them in the best position for the players to go out on the field and for the players to win it.

All indications to me are that at least this week, the coaching staff did a tremendous job getting these guys ready to play, and gameplanning to put them in position to win against what seemed prior to the game to be a much superior Jets team.

Northman
10-17-2010, 08:01 PM
even though I already said I don't believe it to be a McD's problem, if all we are going to do is list out the "technical" things the team didn't do right (fumbling, throwing to covered WRs, missed snaps)...those very well COULD be a coaching problem. Just as penalties on your team could be a coaching problem (not referring tothe unintentional face mask PI).

I mean, if we are going to say that the bad mistakes aren't a coaching problem, then we sure as heck can't give the coaching staff credit when a player makes an incredible play and scores. Yet we do that as well. :whoknows:


I dont really put a lot of onus on McD here but i TOTALLY understand what your getting it. In the end its about discipline and improving each and every week. While we played the Jets tough we STILL saw a lot of the dumb penalties and bad execution that has plagued us the last 5 years. At some point it is on McD to get the team to play better and too be more disciplined out on the field.

topscribe
10-17-2010, 08:04 PM
Yeah, that was PI. Crappy break, unintentional, but the correct call. I can't blame McD either. I don't know. Orton played pretty decently. WR's were near brilliant, Sanchez is an overrated chump, the defense contained the Jets running game for the most part, and we lost anyways.

I place the blame for our loss fully on the New York Jets . . .

-----

DenBronx
10-17-2010, 08:34 PM
I'm totally heartbroken. The Broncos are 4-12 since going 6-0. This losing business has got to stop.


Our only hope is sweeping everyone in our division.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 08:38 PM
I'm totally heartbroken. The Broncos are 4-12 since going 6-0. This losing business has got to stop.


Our only hope is sweeping everyone in our division.

Hmmm.... Uhmmmm......

jhildebrand
10-17-2010, 08:45 PM
He calls the plays, right? He has brought in his players and is responsible for coaching them, right? He has the worst running game in the league, yet loves the run on 3rd and long. How long does he get before we can blame him for the losses? Oh, and his $6 million dollar long snapper cost us a field goal.

You should know my posting record on McD. I rarely alleviate him of any criticism let alone responsibility.

I just don't see where to fault the guy. The Tebow stuff worked. The running game was off to a good start prior to the Moreno fumble. We were as physical if not more than the Jets. We had our share of ticky tack calls go our way.

If the Broncos have played like they did today for even 8 of the last 11 losses I would be much less critical of McD.

I didn't see anything to not like today other than the end result. I would like to see more of DT but he showed he is still not as reliable deep as Gaff, Lloyd, and Royal.

jhildebrand
10-17-2010, 09:07 PM
Wasn't going to catch it? Even with his head/eyes being pulled away from the ball, he nearly caught it. The ball hit and then went through Holmes hands. The yank on the face mask, intentional or not, likely prevented an incompletion.

Even Vic Lombardi showed that Holmes was pulling on our DB and that had as much to do with the contact and facemask. OUr DB was shown pleading his case to the LJ that he was twisted by the WR.

At the end of the day we had two or three very soft PI calls go our way. I am not going to pin this loss, or any other for that matter, on ONE PLAY.

There were several other opportunities.

Medford Bronco
10-17-2010, 09:07 PM
Offensive GENIUS!!!!:mad:

2-4 on the season/ YAY!!!!!

Did Josh cause the PI penalty at the end of the game.

We played hard vs a very good team today and lost on a penalty.

Much better than last weeks disaster.

I am at least encouraged and should beat Oak next week with that effort.

145 yards rushing vs a top 3 run defense is improvement.

sneakers
10-17-2010, 09:15 PM
The onside kick was a brilliant move today!

Denver Native (Carol)
10-17-2010, 09:17 PM
It wasnt a bad call..the call couldve gone either way...I think he shouldnt have thrown the flag the wr was falling as was hill. no way he makes the catch anyways a no call is the right call...not a ref deciding the game.

That is exactly what Vic Lombardi was saying - i.e. - it was a very BOLD call, and most refs would have NOT made that call at that time in the game.

TXBRONC
10-17-2010, 09:21 PM
Did Josh cause the PI penalty at the end of the game.

We played hard vs a very good team today and lost on a penalty.

Much better than last weeks disaster.

I am at least encouraged and should beat Oak next week with that effort.

145 yards rushing vs a top 3 run defense is improvement.

Head coach = takes the blame. Sometimes it's fair and sometimes it isn't. I do think some of his play calling certain situations wasn't very good but he certainly has no control over the mistakes committed by his players on the field.'

I really don't mean to be combative Med but moral victory count for nothing. Sure they played hard the running game looked better and maybe that will mean something from this point forward but at the end of the day 2-4 is 2-4.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 09:28 PM
Even Vic Lombardi showed that Holmes was pulling on our DB and that had as much to do with the contact and facemask. OUr DB was shown pleading his case to the LJ that he was twisted by the WR.

At the end of the day we had two or three very soft PI calls go our way. I am not going to pin this loss, or any other for that matter, on ONE PLAY.

There were several other opportunities.

Lombardi can say that stuff all he wants. But when a ref is standing right there, and he sees a player's head turn BECAUSE of fingers pulling on the facemask, that will get a call EVERY TIME. Period. Its an automatic, I promise you every ref inthe league would have called that PI, because, of the face mask. Without it, most probably no call.

But as you said, we had three PI calls go our way. Not to mention a horrible "unnecessary roughness" call, and a TD where the WR didn't get his second foot in bounds. So the last thing the Bronco fans can do, is point at this call. Thats for sure.

Northman
10-17-2010, 09:31 PM
Lombardi can say that stuff all he wants. But when a ref is standing right there, and he sees a player's head turn BECAUSE of fingers pulling on the facemask, that will get a call EVERY TIME. Period. Its an automatic, I promise you every ref inthe league would have called that PI, because, of the face mask. Without it, most probably no call.

But as you said, we had three PI calls go our way. Not to mention a horrible "unnecessary roughness" call, and a TD where the WR didn't get his second foot in bounds. So the last thing the Bronco fans can do, is point at this call. Thats for sure.

It was so blatantly obvious not to be called.

jhildebrand
10-17-2010, 09:36 PM
Lombardi can say that stuff all he wants. But when a ref is standing right there, and he sees a player's head turn BECAUSE of fingers pulling on the facemask, that will get a call EVERY TIME. Period. Its an automatic, I promise you every ref inthe league would have called that PI, because, of the face mask. Without it, most probably no call.

But as you said, we had three PI calls go our way. Not to mention a horrible "unnecessary roughness" call, and a TD where the WR didn't get his second foot in bounds. So the last thing the Bronco fans can do, is point at this call. Thats for sure.

Again, I never blame the game on any one call. There are 60+ plays a game for the O. If they can't win on those collectively than they probably shouldn't win.

I only felt it was a 'questionable' (not bad nor saying I disagree with it) is because Holmes had contact with our DB going down the field. That jossling helped to his falling down and the facemask which was incidental. But most importantly, that ball was not intentionally thrown behind Holmes by Sanchez. It was probably uncatchable.

At the end of the day this team shoulda, coulda, woulda, but didn't win and the PI call, agree with it or not, WAS NOT the reason this team lost.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2010, 10:15 PM
Again, I never blame the game on any one call. There are 60+ plays a game for the O. If they can't win on those collectively than they probably shouldn't win.



I'm a VERY firm believer in this. Just as some charger fans STILL try to blame the ref for that loss years ago. Sorry, what about the rest of the 4 TDs, the 400 yrds offense against, the TD after the call and the 2 points conversion? Its easy to need an "excuse." But if the game was close enough to come down to ONE call, then I'm sure you made some mistakes along the way already.

I NEVER blame the refs for a loss, and I hate when I hear any fan try to do that.

Tned
10-17-2010, 10:56 PM
I place the blame for our loss fully on the New York Jets . . .

-----

:confused: Did they drop the two ints, both a FG snap, miss a field goal, fumble our RBs ball and cause us to have penalties in key situations?

The worst part about a loss like this is the team played well enough to win, EXCEPT for the mistakes that gave it away.

Broncos Mtnman
10-17-2010, 10:58 PM
Under Shanny we would have lost that game by 24 points. We have been in every game but one this season and all have hinged on a few plays here and there. We haven't been outclassed or looked silly out there except for the Ravens game and our run game when Moreno was hurt. Yes, that is progress.

4-12 over the last 16 games isn't progress.

Just said on 9 News that it's the second worse period in team history. The previous one was under Reeves.

Nope, not buyin' the "progress" excuse.

:coffee:

Shazam!
10-17-2010, 10:59 PM
Im sorry... but I can't blame McD.

Im crushed by the loss and have all kinds of emails and txts from obnoxious arrogant NYJ fans, but McD totally outcoahed fatso Rex today. Even with the horiffic injuries, they played tough, the running game got going, and they almost pulled out a win.

I for one didnt expect a win today. That's why it hurts so much, to be soooooo close and had a bad break in a game where the Broncos did indeed ge ta lot of breaks.

While I am not happy after a loss like this and overall with the record, Josh had our Men ready and they brought it today. Just a bad break.

Broncos Mtnman
10-17-2010, 11:07 PM
even though I already said I don't believe it to be a McD's problem, if all we are going to do is list out the "technical" things the team didn't do right (fumbling, throwing to covered WRs, missed snaps)...those very well COULD be a coaching problem. Just as penalties on your team could be a coaching problem (not referring tothe unintentional face mask PI).

I mean, if we are going to say that the bad mistakes aren't a coaching problem, then we sure as heck can't give the coaching staff credit when a player makes an incredible play and scores. Yet we do that as well. :whoknows:

Right on!!

If win/loss records aren't the fault of the coach, why did Shanny get fired?

Mistakes can indeed be due to a myriad of coaching problems, such as game planning, what drills are emphasized in practice, etc....

:confused:

Tned
10-17-2010, 11:15 PM
4-12 over the last 16 games isn't progress.

Just said on 9 News that it's the second worse period in team history. The previous one was under Reeves.

Nope, not buyin' the "progress" excuse.

:coffee:

Paige did an article, I think after the Seattle game, where he could see them ending up with the worst stretch in Broncos history. I think that was predicting a Ten loss, along with Bal and NYJ. I can't remember what he said the worst stretch was.

Tned
10-17-2010, 11:18 PM
Im sorry... but I can't blame McD.

Im crushed by the loss and have all kinds of emails and txts from obnoxious arrogant NYJ fans, but McD totally outcoahed fatso Rex today. Even with the horiffic injuries, they played tough, the running game got going, and they almost pulled out a win.

I for one didnt expect a win today. That's why it hurts so much, to be soooooo close and had a bad break in a game where the Broncos did indeed ge ta lot of breaks.

While I am not happy after a loss like this and overall with the record, Josh had our Men ready and they brought it today. Just a bad break.


I don't blame McDaniels per se for this loss, but the fact is that we are 4-12 in our last 16 games, which is horrendous. Now, if we flip what happened last year and win 8 or our last 10, vs. losing 8 of 10, then this 16 game stretch will be long forgotten. If we continue to struggle and lose games with sloppy play, then it's going to be harder and harder to say McD isn't to blame.

WARHORSE
10-17-2010, 11:25 PM
Im sorry... but I can't blame McD.

Im crushed by the loss and have all kinds of emails and txts from obnoxious arrogant NYJ fans, but McD totally outcoahed fatso Rex today. Even with the horiffic injuries, they played tough, the running game got going, and they almost pulled out a win.

I for one didnt expect a win today. That's why it hurts so much, to be soooooo close and had a bad break in a game where the Broncos did indeed ge ta lot of breaks.

While I am not happy after a loss like this and overall with the record, Josh had our Men ready and they brought it today. Just a bad break.

Damn straight.


Josh, Wink and the entire staff had the players PREPARED.

Tough, tough loss to watch.

Lame play by Hill on 4th down.



Our rookies are getting some scars in though. That is ALWAYS good.


The offensive pass protection was there.


And we made mistakes.

I like what I saw from Tebow and the fact that Josh manufactured rush yards.

Im not at all unhappy with McD.

Tned
10-17-2010, 11:28 PM
Damn straight.


Josh, Wink and the entire staff had the players PREPARED.

Tough, tough loss to watch.

Lame play by Hill on 4th down.



Our rookies are getting some scars in though. That is ALWAYS good.


The offensive pass protection was there.


And we made mistakes.

I like what I saw from Tebow and the fact that Josh manufactured rush yards.

Im not at all unhappy with McD.

You can't expect a safety to cover a WR like Holmes 40 yards downfield or whatever it was. You have to either get pressure on the QB or or have CB help on that play. Can't remember exactly what happened. There was running with Holmes, can't remember if he fell, or if he peeled off to cover someone else, leaving Hills to cover a deep zone. Either way, a WR like Holmes is going to make that play against a safety more times than not.

wbmustang
10-17-2010, 11:34 PM
That was a painful loss and I ended up getting drunk and passing out. With that being said I STILL think we can win the AFC West. No one has been entirely dominant and look at the teams we have lost too. J Ville was bad but Indy, NYJ, and Ravens are probably all going to win their divisions so it is what it is. I know that may sound like I am drinking koolaid but it's how I feel. Our team is not as bad as everyone thinks they are.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-17-2010, 11:36 PM
You can't expect a safety to cover a WR like Holmes 40 yards downfield or whatever it was. You have to either get pressure on the QB or or have CB help on that play. Can't remember exactly what happened. There was running with Holmes, can't remember if he fell, or if he peeled off to cover someone else, leaving Hills to cover a deep zone. Either way, a WR like Holmes is going to make that play against a safety more times than not.

Cox was initially in coverage and Holmes did a double move and went deep. I don't know if Cox had zone responsibilities in the flat, but he stopped running with Holmes when Holmes looked to break off his route short and then Hill picked him up when he resumed his deep route. At no time was Holmes really "open" per se and the throw was just a give up throw by Sanchez. They got what they wanted, a penalty.

The fact that we got ZERO pressure on Sanchez and that it took like 10 seconds for the play to fully develop put Hill in an awkward position. When he was finally able to look for the ball, it was terribly under thrown and his momentum caused him to keep heading downfield. He reflexively put an arm out to try to locate Holmes as he went down and unfortunately, his fingers hooked the facemask. Had Holmes' head not jerked to the left (no facemask), I doubt that there was enough contact to draw a true PI flag in that case because Hill actually looked back and attempted a play on the ball.

Tned
10-17-2010, 11:41 PM
Cox was initially in coverage and Holmes did a double move and went deep. I don't know if Cox had zone responsibilities in the flat, but he stopped running with Holmes when Holmes looked to break off his route short and then Hill picked him up when he resumed his deep route. At no time was Holmes really "open" per se and the throw was just a give up throw by Sanchez. They got what they wanted, a penalty.

The fact that we got ZERO pressure on Sanchez and that it took like 10 seconds for the play to fully develop put Hill in an awkward position. When he was finally able to look for the ball, it was terribly under thrown and his momentum caused him to keep heading downfield. He reflexively put an arm out to try to locate Holmes as he went down and unfortunately, his fingers hooked the facemask. Had Holmes' head not jerked to the left (no facemask), I doubt that there was enough contact to draw a true PI flag in that case because Hill actually looked back and attempted a play on the ball.

Good explanation of the play.. I agree, without the facemask and head turning, I think they might have called it incidental contact and held the flag. More times than not, those under-thrown balls wind up in receptions or PIs, because the WR is tracking it and the DB impedes the WR's attempt to come back/stop for the ball, because the DB picks up the ball too late.

Bottom line, it sucks and it was gut wrenching to see that flag thrown.

Dean
10-17-2010, 11:43 PM
That was a painful loss and I ended up getting drunk and passing out. With that being said I STILL think we can win the AFC West. No one has been entirely dominant and look at the teams we have lost too. J Ville was bad but Indy, NYJ, and Ravens are probably all going to win their divisions so it is what it is. I know that may sound like I am drinking koolaid but it's how I feel. Our team is not as bad as everyone thinks they are.

You are what your won loss record says you are. What we did or didn't do versus Iny, the Jets, and the Ravens will have absolutely no bearing on future games. It may help use accept this dismal losing spiral that we are in but playing close is not winning no matter how much we want it to be so. :confused:

HORSEPOWER 56
10-17-2010, 11:46 PM
You are what your won loss record says you are. What we did or didn't do versus Iny, the Jets, and the Ravens will have absolutely no bearing on future games. It may help use accept this dismal losing spiral that we are in but playing close is not winning no matter how much we want it to be so. :confused:

QFT. You don't "win" a second place trophy. They give you one because they feel sorry for you...

jhildebrand
10-18-2010, 12:30 AM
I can think of several plays from today where we got pressure or coverage sacks only because our secondary covered WR's and TE's for more than 5 seconds. That is huge and that is without Dawk (who I am afraid is a liability at this point).

The Holmes PI play was yet another.

This team needs to find a way to get pressure. I would rather have traded that 4th for some DL help or LB help of any kind than see Tebow taking Maroney's carries.

wbmustang
10-18-2010, 01:50 AM
You are what your won loss record says you are. What we did or didn't do versus Iny, the Jets, and the Ravens will have absolutely no bearing on future games. It may help use accept this dismal losing spiral that we are in but playing close is not winning no matter how much we want it to be so. :confused:

I feel you but it's not like we are getting blown out and are close in games besides the Ravens game. With that being said what have you seen from any of the AFC West teams besides maybe the cheaps that we still can't win the division even with our current record?

Dzone
10-18-2010, 07:22 AM
This team gets better every week. In spite of multiple injuries. Lots of positives in this game. Beadles is already better than Harris. Tebow running the option is AWESOME. Moreno looks like he could be a good back. D. Thomas looked great. Defense decimated by injuries, played pretty good. This was a game we should have won. The AFC west title is still in reach.

Shazam!
10-18-2010, 08:42 AM
Few teams have had as tough schedule a as Denver in the early on. Bal, Indy and the NYJ were all teams deep in the playoffs last year. Sure you've gotta win who's in front of you, but Denver never has matched up well with Ball for the last 10 years, Indy is Indy and they came close to the NYJ evenn riddled with injuries. Sure it hurts but the schedule lightens up considerably.

LRtagger
10-18-2010, 09:10 AM
You can't expect a safety to cover a WR like Holmes 40 yards downfield or whatever it was. You have to either get pressure on the QB or or have CB help on that play. Can't remember exactly what happened. There was running with Holmes, can't remember if he fell, or if he peeled off to cover someone else, leaving Hills to cover a deep zone. Either way, a WR like Holmes is going to make that play against a safety more times than not.


It was a 2 deep zone which is typically the right call on 4th and 6. Your corners are responsible for preventing the first down and the safeties are responsible for the deep ball. As an offense you almost HAVE to hope for a PI call or a remarkable jump ball catch against that defensive call.

I wish we had brought the house on a blitz, though and made Nacho make a quick decision - like we had done pretty much the entire game.

Lonestar
10-18-2010, 10:40 AM
I see a lot of progress for a very young team overall.

W-L not what I want but about what I expected at this point after looking hard at the schedule.
In fact we lost games a lot closer than I thought we would. Moral victory sure.

But I like the direction that the team is going considering the injuries, youth on offense and newness of the scheme.

Most say it takes 3 years to know a complex playbook.

That said I was asking why we went conservative attempting to run the ball instead of passing it more in the 4th.

We overcame all the obstacles a VERY good team threw at it. The PI was a back breaker no doubt about it.

There will be a point in time that plays like those will not be the game breaker.

To answer BM question, Why was mike fired?
Record
Total lack of DLINE
Refusal to fire slowick.
Zbs.
Lousy personnel decisions
Overall draft FUBARs. Lack of disicpline in his players.
Major bad decisions in dead cap money.

Could come up with a few more I'm sure with a bit more time.

I like what I see from this TEAM, Josh I will like them better when they are more consistent thus winning close games instead of what we have been doing.
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Watchthemiddle
10-18-2010, 12:27 PM
The sad thing is, is McD showed his genius yesterday.

That is something we have ALL been waiting to see.

We still lost.

Pulled out all the stops, stopped running the bubble screen, used the Tebow package, completed an un-predictable onsides kick, got 3 turnovers, and still lost.

AT HOME!!!

I am scratching my head :confused:as to what it is going to take to make this any better.

This team is soooo close to just exploding onto the scene.....let's hope McD and his creative play callling continue this week.

arapaho2
10-18-2010, 12:40 PM
We lost on a shitty call. Nothing more or less. I saw progress I the running game and it should have paid off in a win.

shitty call? the guy grabbed his face mask...that is undeniable PI....the qb should not have been allowed to sit back and wait for his wrs to get wide open on the goal line...thats what cost the game

Northman
10-18-2010, 01:07 PM
Under Shanny we would have lost that game by 24 points. We have been in every game but one this season and all have hinged on a few plays here and there. We haven't been outclassed or looked silly out there except for the Ravens game and our run game when Moreno was hurt. Yes, that is progress.

Last time we played the Jets we beat them, in NY and with a worse defense.

BigDaddyBronco
10-18-2010, 01:20 PM
Last time we played the Jets we beat them, in NY and with a worse defense.
Of course I was talking about these Jets, not the Brett Favre/Eric Mangini 2008 version. Shanny always had the tendency to get blown out by good teams with running games, like the Chargers.

It was funny that they beat the Jets after getting beat 31-10 by the Raiders and JaMarcus Russell the week before. That loss just flat out sucked.

jhildebrand
10-18-2010, 01:26 PM
Last time we played the Jets we beat them, in NY and with a worse defense.

We aso had a guy who could get the hard yard :D

:ducks before this becomes a Hillis thread:

Northman
10-18-2010, 02:13 PM
Of course I was talking about these Jets, not the Brett Favre/Eric Mangini 2008 version. Shanny always had the tendency to get blown out by good teams with running games, like the Chargers.

It was funny that they beat the Jets after getting beat 31-10 by the Raiders and JaMarcus Russell the week before. That loss just flat out sucked.

As did the loss last year to the Chiefs when we got steamrolled. Fact is, inconsistency is the blueprint with this team so to make a statement that "this would of happened under Shanahan" is false because its still happening here.

Broncos Mtnman
10-18-2010, 04:42 PM
It was funny that they beat the Jets after getting beat 31-10 by the Raiders and JaMarcus Russell the week before. That loss just flat out sucked.

Yeah, that's funny....

Kind like last year....

Mickey losing to Russell coming off the bench - AT HOME!!

Followed by the Chiefs game letting Charles have a career day - AT HOME!!

Now THOSE losses flat out sucked.

:coffee:

Northman
10-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Yea, im just not seeing a huge change when it comes to blowout losses.

I went back and looked at the last two years that Shanahan was here and in 07' and 08' we had 11 games where we lost by 2 TD's or more. This happening with the 19th ranked defense in 07' and the 29th ranked defense in 08'.

So far, through one season and 6 games McD has 6 where we lost by 2 TD's or more. This happening with the 7th ranked defense in 09' and the 18th ranked defense in 10'.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-18-2010, 05:13 PM
I am scratching my head :confused:as to what it is going to take to make this any better.



Playing for 4 full quarters, my friend. The team put it in cruise control in the 4th quarter and played not to lose instead of playing to win. Our offense had ZERO production until they had to try to come from behind for the win in the last 2 minutes. Had we kept our foot on the gas and played to score more points instead of just trying to protect a small lead, we probably would've won the game.

The PI call was a bad break, but that call sure as hell didn't cost us the game. Not one of the mistakes we made yesterday were unrecoverable. Even when you combine them all, we had the lead in the 4th quarter and played not to lose instead of playing to win.

How many times throughout the year have we seen this happen? I can think of a certain Chargers game a few years ago in Invesco where we carried a hefty lead into halftime only to come out conservatively in the second half and it led to a loss. This is who we are. We're TERRIBLE with the lead late in the game. Unless we're playing catch up, we never play aggressively on offense or defense. It's been that way since the Reeves era and hasn't changed.

Northman
10-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Playing for 4 full quarters, my friend. The team put it in cruise control in the 4th quarter and played not to lose instead of playing to win. Our offense had ZERO production until they had to try to come from behind for the win in the last 2 minutes. Had we kept our foot on the gas and played to score more points instead of just trying to protect a small lead, we probably would've won the game.

The PI call was a bad break, but that call sure as hell didn't cost us the game. Not one of the mistakes we made yesterday were unrecoverable. Even when you combine them all, we had the lead in the 4th quarter and played not to lose instead of playing to win.

How many times throughout the year have we seen this happen? I can think of a certain Chargers game a few years ago in Invesco where we carried a hefty lead into halftime only to come out conservatively in the second half and it led to a loss. This is who we are. We're TERRIBLE with the lead late in the game. Unless we're playing catch up, we never play aggressively on offense or defense. It's been that way since the Reeves era and hasn't changed.


Totally pissed me off. Especially after a turnover. We have to finish games.

Broncos Mtnman
10-24-2010, 10:49 PM
Yeah, that's funny....

Kind like last year....

Mickey losing to Russell coming off the bench - AT HOME!!

Followed by the Chiefs game letting Charles have a career day - AT HOME!!

Now THOSE losses flat out sucked.

:coffee:

Quoted because as bad as last year's loss was, it was a better game than today's was.

That Mickey is a freakin' genius!!

:coffee:

scott.475
10-24-2010, 10:54 PM
That Mickey is a freakin' genius!!


I know, right?! WOOHOO!!!