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Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 02:29 AM
Actually not as bad as i thought it was going to be, we shot ourselves in the foot with bad playcalling, penalties and poor interior run defense, and the D being on the field to long along with some injuries sealed the deal

Offense-

(56 plays)Brandon Lloyd had B grade
B+ catching the ball/C blocking

(46 plays)Eddie royal had a overall of C+
C+ catching the ball/C+ blocking

(60 plays)Ryan Clady had a overall of C
C+ pass block/C run block, 2 pressures allowed/1 penalty

(60 plays)Russ Hochstein had a overall of B
B pass block/C run block

(60 plays)JD walton had a overall of D
D- pass block/C- run block/3 QB pressures allowed/3 penalties

(60 plays)Chris Kuper had a C-
D pass block/C run block/1 Sack, 1 pressure, 1 Qb hit allowed

(60 plays)Ryan Harris had a C
C pass block/D run block/1 Qb hit/2 Qb pressures allowed

(51 plays)Daniel Graham had a C-
C catching the ball/C- blocking/1 Qb pressure allowed

(54 plays)Jabar Gaffney had a C-
C catching the ball/C blocking/2 penalties

(60 plays)Orton had a B
A throwing the ball/D in penalties committed(delay of game x3)

(15 plays)Maroney had a C
C catching/C rushing/C blocking

(42 plays)Buckhalter had a C-
C- catching/C rushing/C blocking

(25 plays)Gronkowski had a overall of C-
C- Catching/C blocking


our own mistakes....penalties....killed us here Hochstein interestingly enough was our best rated OL all round, guess now that he is fully recoverd from his knee injury we will no longer see Daniels or beadles for that matter, looks like Hoch is the LG for now. Clady had a improved day as well doing better in both pass and run. Kuper improved his run blocking but was not good in pass protection. Harris struggled in the run game again, but was better in the passing game. And walton really struggled in pass protection and injuries

Lloyd, And Orton(minus the delay of game stuff) again good games.....becoming a reccuring theme here. Royal was solid, gaffney was ok, the TE's sucked. our backs and OL were actually better this game in the run but down by 17 and in constant third and 12 or longer we were forced to throw alot......

bottom line here is we shot ourselves in the foot with penalties keeping us in long situatiosn constantly.


Defense

(41 plays) Justin Bannan had a C-
C- run defense/C- pass rush/1 QB hit

(37 plays) Jamal Williams had a D
D run defense/C- pass rush

(38 plays) Kevin Vickerson had a C
C run defense/C pass rush/1 Qb pressure

(77 plays) Mario Haggan had a B
B run defense/B pass rush/C pass coverage/2 Qb pressures

(77 plays) DJ Williams had a C
C run defense/C pass rush/C pass coverage

(77 plays) Robert Ayers had a overall rating of C+
C+ run defense/C pass rush/3 Qb hits

(62 plays) Jason Hunter had a overall of B
C run defense/B+ pass rush/1 Qb sack/2 qb pressures

(74 plays) Champ Bailey had a overall rating of B-
C run defense/B- pass defense

(64 plays) Brian Dawkins had a overall of B+
B run defense/C+ pass rush/C pass defense/1 Qb pressure

(77 plays) Renaldo Hill had a overall of C+
C run defense/C+ pass defense/1 Qb pressure

(68 plays) Perish Cox had a overall of D+
C run defense/C pass defense/PI call killed him here

(34 plays) Nathan Jones had a overall C
C run defense/C pass defense

(36 plays) Marcus Thomas had a overall B-
C+ run defense/C pass rush/1 Qb pressure

(35 plays) Ronald Fields had a overall D+
D+ run defense/C pass rush

(Ryan Mcbean) had a overall C
C run defense/C pass rush/1 Qb pressure


overall it seems our D tired out, and while were gashed by the run the 2 main culprits for it were our Nt's williams and fields, bad games from them big time. Bannan struggled a bit. Thomas and Vickerson were solid. DJ had a off week, and perrish Cox had a rough game, Renaldo hill played a good game and hunter pressured the Qb well. Ayers played the run Solid untill leaving in the 4th. Seems our D didnt play that bad they were just gased and tired from being on teh field so long. It really seems like the penalties and lack of mental focus were the issue today

we had far worse ratings last week all round than this and won, so Im not as worried as i first was. The injuries are gonna hurt though for sure. I thought the ratings would torch us this week, but really we didnt play horribly, we just got tired and lost mental focus to stay in the game based off these ratings it seems.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 02:38 AM
seems to me we have a slightly above average defense, struggling special teams, with a elite passing offense, and non-existent run game.....easy to see how we have a 2-3 record after a stretch of Indy/Tenn/Balt

I still belive we have a shot at the jets. so far we have repsonded with a win after each loss, that is a improvement over last year for sure. So we should be due. Then we have oakland and San fran(who right now is the worst team in the league)....followed by the bye week......a 4-4 or maybe even 5-3 record isnt bad heading into the bye where we can get healthy so depsite all our issues we are still very much alive in the division and the wildcard. Could this be the year we have it all come together after the bye and make a run????.....that being said if we go on on a 2 or 3 game losing streak here we could be screwed

Who knows though, there is alot of football to play and it certainly isnt time for the sky is falling season is over talk. we have issues and concerns all over the team no doubt, but so do lots and lots of other teams that were supposed to be contenders......lets keep the faith pull together and hope for the best from the the next few weeks....we are still very much alive in this season...

Lonestar
10-12-2010, 02:57 AM
I'm surprised at cladys grade in the run area as I saw one play where he let his man tackle the runner for a loss.

Also remember seeing haggan miss a tackle that allowed a 8+ yard or so gain come right up the gut.

So it seems all is not lost after all.

Thanks for the stats once again.
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Italianmobstr7
10-12-2010, 02:57 AM
Don't understand how DJ only gets a C when he had 15 tackles which was 6 more than the closest person to him. These ratings are interesting tho. Hope we beat Jets but things don't look good especially with the injuries! I will always keep the faith and optimism tho! Go Broncos!

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 03:00 AM
Don't understand how DJ only gets a C when he had 15 tackles which was 6 more than the closest person to him. These ratings are interesting tho. Hope we beat Jets but things don't look good especially with the injuries! I will always keep the faith and optimism tho! Go Broncos!

his pass coverage was crap and his few attempts to get pressure failed...big picture;)

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 03:02 AM
I'm surprised at cladys grade in the run area as I saw one play where he let his man tackle the runner for a loss.

Also remember seeing haggan miss a tackle that allowed a 8+ yard or so gain come right up the gut.

So it seems all is not lost after all.

Thanks for the stats once again.
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there will always be a few here and there, but the whole body of work is what this site look at which is why i like it there are days where i think a player was great and it truns out he wasnt or days when i thought a player sucked becasue of the media, but it turns out he was dominant in another phase of the game like run defense......i love how unbiased it is....it beats listening to the extreme stuff here for instance

we werent as good as were at Tenn against the run, but im thinking had our Nt's held up this game it would have been alot less damage in the 4th qt....

Lonestar
10-12-2010, 03:17 AM
I can see the overall picture where they can be stellar all game but get beat on a play or two the ones that really stick out and were plain to see.

Those two plays I mentioned were glaring errors IMO. And they surprised me after hearing glowing reports on them.

Do yuou get more than just DEN team?

If so would be interested in hearing the jets strong and weak points. :salute:
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Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 03:21 AM
I can see the overall picture where they can be stellar all game but get beat on a play or two the ones that really stick out and were plain to see.

Those two plays I mentioned were glaring errors IMO. And they surprised me after hearing glowing reports on them.

Do yuou get more than just DEN team?

If so would be interested in hearing the jets strong and weak points. :salute:
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i get all 32 teams......i will have the jets stuff here in a few....

Buff
10-12-2010, 03:26 AM
seems to me we have a slightly above average defense, struggling special teams, with a elite passing offense, and non-existent run game.....easy to see how we have a 2-3 record after a stretch of Indy/Tenn/Balt

I still belive we have a shot at the jets. so far we have repsonded with a win after each loss, that is a improvement over last year for sure. So we should be due. Then we have oakland and San fran(who right now is the worst team in the league)....followed by the bye week......a 4-4 or maybe even 5-3 record isnt bad heading into the bye where we can get healthy so depsite all our issues we are still very much alive in the division and the wildcard. Could this be the year we have it all come together after the bye and make a run????.....that being said if we go on on a 2 or 3 game losing streak here we could be screwed

Who knows though, there is alot of football to play and it certainly isnt time for the sky is falling season is over talk. we have issues and concerns all over the team no doubt, but so do lots and lots of other teams that were supposed to be contenders......lets keep the faith pull together and hope for the best from the the next few weeks....we are still very much alive in this season...

In general it seems like some of those grades are fairly kind considering how badly we were dominated in every facet of the game on Sunday. I swear Clady and Kuper have got to be hurt still, they just don't look like the same guys.

I'd say Carolina and Buffalo both look quite a bit worse than San Fran... But they are very beatable, as their record would indicate.

I'm an optimistic homer when it comes to the Broncos, and I think our schedule gets quite a bit more manageable after the Jets game. I'm just worried that injuries and morale might make any divisional run impossible if we get spanked by the Jets. At 2-4 with no running game, no pass rush to speak of and a rag tag group of LB's, even I have a tough time envisioning this team stringing together a win streak.

But you never know. Our WR corps, Kyle Orton and Matt Prater give us a chance each week. Somehow we've got to find a way to run the ball... I just don't understand how we can be so inept.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 03:30 AM
In general it seems like some of those grades are fairly kind considering how badly we were dominated in every facet of the game on Sunday. I swear Clady and Kuper have got to be hurt still, they just don't look like the same guys.

I'd say Carolina and Buffalo both look quite a bit worse than San Fran... But they are very beatable, as their record would indicate.

I'm an optimistic homer when it comes to the Broncos, and I think our schedule gets quite a bit more manageable after the Jets game. I'm just worried that injuries and morale might make any divisional run impossible if we get spanked by the Jets. At 2-4 with no running game, no pass rush to speak of and a rag tag group of LB's, even I have a tough time envisioning this team stringing together a winning streak.

But you never know. Our WR corps, Kyle Orton and Matt Prater give us a chance each week. Somehow we've got to find a way to run the ball... I just don't understand how we can be so inept.

thats just it all it takes is one or 2 plays where they give up a long run and go from a B rating to C, but what if the other 48 plays they did there job????

clady had a better week than his last 2 overall....but kuper has been consitently bad since being back in which could be he isnt as good as we all thought...or he is hurt

and the grades arent really that kind......C is average so we had alot of average play, coupled with poor run defense from our interior and a number of penalties that were costly.......sounds about right to me.....

Buff
10-12-2010, 03:38 AM
thats just it all it takes is one or 2 plays where they give up a long run and go from a B rating to C, but what if the other 48 plays they did there job????

clady had a better week than his last 2 overall....but kuper has been consitently bad since being back in which could be he isnt as good as we all thought...or he is hurt

and the grades arent really that kind......C is average so we had alot of average play, coupled with poor run defense from our interior and a number of penalties that were costly.......sounds about right to me.....

Yeah, I just expected a few more failing grades. Our play was far below average collectively. On offense we didn't make it into the redzone until the 4th qtr if I remember correctly. And Baltimore pretty much moved the ball at will against our defense. Couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass and our blitzes were getting snuffed out at the line of scrimmage.

I remember when Kuper missed the Seattle game he said he could have played if it was just a knee injury, or just an ankle injury, but the two combined made it impossible. So I think he is more hurt than he is letting on. I don't think Denver would have rewarded him with the contract if they weren't confident in his abilities.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 03:38 AM
Jets ratings for next week

Offense Overal B
Pass...B
Run....C
Run Blocking......C
Pass Blocking......B
Penalties......C

Defense Overall......B
Run Defense.....A
Pass Rush.....C
Pass Coverage.....C
Penalties.....C


Special Teams......B


Denvers Ratings


Offense Overall......D
Pass Offense......A
Rush Offense....C-
Run Block......F
Pass Block.....C-

Defense Overall.....B
Run Defense....B
Pass rush.....C
Pass Coverage....B
Penalties.....C


Special Teams......C

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 03:48 AM
Yeah, I just expected a few more failing grades. Our play was far below average collectively. On offense we didn't make it into the redzone until the 4th qtr if I remember correctly. And Baltimore pretty much moved the ball at will against our defense. Couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass and our blitzes were getting snuffed out at the line of scrimmage.

I remember when Kuper missed the Seattle game he said he could have played if it was just a knee injury, or just an ankle injury, but the two combined made it impossible. So I think he is more hurt than he is letting on. I don't think Denver would have rewarded him with the contract if they weren't confident in his abilities.

it seems to be this week was a few players here and there not executing for instance the run game.....Harris,walton, kuper.....Run defense.....Williams/Bannan/Fields, and then injuries to dawkins/mcbath/ayers didnt help and the penalties like cox Pi giving them the ball on the 1 yd line....

and i also lean towards kuper being hurt more than he sucks, but he did have a off year last year as well.....

I was stunned to find out Hochstein graded best...had no clue that was gonna happen......but these guys will let it be know if a guy failed horribly...i have no doubt in there re-focus articel that willaims and fields are gonna get rolled by them.....

these ratings may seem off because of what we think we saw or the media portrays but they review every play in slow motion.....here is a example of a note they take on each play

"toss play left, LG blown up at LOS, RB misread play, froze at line result 2 yd loss"...in that instance using denver as example both maroney and hochstein were penalized negatively on the play....one more than the other but both take a hit.

the way they start is at zero.....lets say there grading starts off with a 5-7 yd positive run on a RB...he goes from 0.0(C) to 0.2(C)....then lets say that back fumbles or even commits a penalty he goes from 0.2(C) to -0.6(C-) and so on and so forth....

Bosco
10-12-2010, 07:06 AM
Don't understand how DJ only gets a C when he had 15 tackles which was 6 more than the closest person to him. These ratings are interesting tho. Hope we beat Jets but things don't look good especially with the injuries! I will always keep the faith and optimism tho! Go Broncos!

Because frankly, the guys doing this analysis aren't very good at diagnosing what they're seeing. Give them an "A for effort" though.

They've been a pretty heavily discussed topic on a coaching forum I frequent. We have a former college DB coach on there who has pointed out multiple instances where they have misread coverage assignments and sometimes even botched reading zone vs man when giving out their grades. When they're making mistakes like that it's hard to really take them seriously, however if they happened to bring someone into the fold who actually knew what he was seeing, they could be a real player in the fan analysis game.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 07:46 AM
Because frankly, the guys doing this analysis aren't very good at diagnosing what they're seeing. Give them an "A for effort" though.

They've been a pretty heavily discussed topic on a coaching forum I frequent. We have a former college DB coach on there who has pointed out multiple instances where they have misread coverage assignments and sometimes even botched reading zone vs man when giving out their grades. When they're making mistakes like that it's hard to really take them seriously, however if they happened to bring someone into the fold who actually knew what he was seeing, they could be a real player in the fan analysis game.


they state themsleves that grading of Db's and Wr's in there grading scale formulas isnt always accurate to the T because the TV Broadcast doesnt give them them full picture alot with regards to the route assigments and exact coverage schemes, so there is some guess work there hence the errors.....

they even say themselves that untill they get game tape access they wont be able to always get a accurate judge 100% on DB's and Wr's.....for the most part they are pretty spot on with everything else, and better that any stat website out there by far.....

its all good though i love how everyone knows best, vs a website full of guys that work day and night to analyze the data, and put hours of film viewing in every day while casual fans just sit back and say whats on there mind as if its fact....guess i will bring this stuff elsewhere, where people actually want to look at it......

Dreadnought
10-12-2010, 08:42 AM
they state themsleves that grading of Db's and Wr's in there grading scale formulas isnt always accurate to the T because the TV Broadcast doesnt give them them full picture alot with regards to the route assigments and exact coverage schemes, so there is some guess work there hence the errors.....

they even say themselves that untill they get game tape access they wont be able to always get a accurate judge 100% on DB's and Wr's.....for the most part they are pretty spot on with everything else, and better that any stat website out there by far.....

its all good though i love how everyone knows best, vs a website full of guys that work day and night to analyze the data, and put hours of film viewing in every day while casual fans just sit back and say whats on there mind as if its fact....guess i will bring this stuff elsewhere, where people actually want to look at it......

Well, I for one am glad you post these. I don't always agree with them, but its good food for thought. Please contnue, by all means

underrated29
10-12-2010, 10:58 AM
If we can keep Kyle upright and with time we will own the jets. I am not nearly as worried about their offense as I was for Balt. IF the jets want to run, fine let them run, we will do what we can. But they are not going to score or move the ball and get tds against us if they run.

Meanwhile we are going to move the ball with our pass Offense, and we are going to do if fast. We should IMO be able to grab a lead and hold on for the win. It will be a close game but something like 24-21 us is reasonable imo.

arapaho2
10-12-2010, 11:09 AM
did i fail to see a
F- for defensive coaching

we can say anything we want, the offense left the defense hanging last season just as much as this season

and we have dropped in every defensive catgory based on week 5 from last season

we have supposedly improved the dline....and are only missing a ONE TRICK PONY who sucks in run support or pass coverage in doom (so we are told)

so why are we dropping like bricks in defensive standings...from 1st in d scoreing to 26th in the same point of the season

wink is no nolan and josh shoulda let the man run his defense

underrated29
10-12-2010, 11:32 AM
did i fail to see a
F- for defensive coaching

we can say anything we want, the offense left the defense hanging last season just as much as this season

and we have dropped in every defensive catgory based on week 5 from last season

we have supposedly improved the dline....and are only missing a ONE TRICK PONY who sucks in run support or pass coverage in doom (so we are told)

so why are we dropping like bricks in defensive standings...from 1st in d scoreing to 26th in the same point of the season

wink is no nolan and josh shoulda let the man run his defense



Remember though, last year through week 6 we were #1 in defense. Only allowing more points than that '00 ravens or whatever. I mean we did not allow a 3rd conversion after halftime to any team throughout the first 6 weeks. Then we fell off the wagon.

Lets see how the Entire season goes before we jump the gun.

arapaho2
10-12-2010, 11:34 AM
Remember though, last year through week 6 we were #1 in defense. Only allowing more points than that '00 ravens or whatever. I mean we did not allow a 3rd conversion after halftime to any team throughout the first 6 weeks. Then we fell off the wagon.

Lets see how the Entire season goes before we jump the gun.


The defense under nolan was the reason we were 5-0

BigDaddyBronco
10-12-2010, 11:39 AM
I'm beginning to doubt the validity of these grades if Hochstein was rated the best OLineman during that game. I'm wondering if some of the pressures/penalties that Walton gave up were in double teams where Hochstein failed and Walton got blamed.

Maybe not, but Hochstein has never looked good to me.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 12:14 PM
did i fail to see a
F- for defensive coaching

we can say anything we want, the offense left the defense hanging last season just as much as this season

and we have dropped in every defensive catgory based on week 5 from last season

we have supposedly improved the dline....and are only missing a ONE TRICK PONY who sucks in run support or pass coverage in doom (so we are told)

so why are we dropping like bricks in defensive standings...from 1st in d scoreing to 26th in the same point of the season

wink is no nolan and josh shoulda let the man run his defense

yes because it wasnt relevant to the thread and im not here to start shit if you are take it to your freaking arapho's game thoughts and leave it there, this is general info for the public its neither good nor bad its just info...chill the f out dude and stay in your own thread with your name if your gonna come in here baiting....

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 12:20 PM
I'm beginning to doubt the validity of these grades if Hochstein was rated the best OLineman during that game. I'm wondering if some of the pressures/penalties that Walton gave up were in double teams where Hochstein failed and Walton got blamed.

Maybe not, but Hochstein has never looked good to me.

hochstein is a servicable vet coming off a bad knee injury.....i didnt expect him to play well....but all 4 besides him played bad the last few weeks, so maybe he did have a alright game. i dont know i dont watch tape im just a fan who listens to a site of guys that watch tape that i paid 90 bucks for...maybe im a tool and got hosed on the 90 but they seem pretty damn fair for the most part going all the way to last year......i havent seen anything galring or super erroneous everyone cant always be perfect...take and think what you want from them

i will give it a few more weeks but right now im not really inspired anymore to give the info here just how it is......

Gimpygod
10-12-2010, 12:45 PM
and i also lean towards kuper being hurt more than he sucks, but he did have a off year last year as well.....



could you at least acknowledge the possibility that scheme is the problem? Oline was great enter McDaniels now they are bad...the players got sucky is the least logical conclusion.

arapaho2
10-12-2010, 01:00 PM
yes because it wasnt relevant to the thread and im not here to start shit if you are take it to your freaking arapho's game thoughts and leave it there, this is general info for the public its neither good nor bad its just info...chill the f out dude and stay in your own thread with your name if your gonna come in here baiting....


who the f is baiting?... dont get your panties twisted

its a simple thing...i think whether we are talking ravens, indy or whatever game..the coaching is failing in the defense and oline/rbs

simple question why isnt there a grade for coaching...if you cant handle that...geez :lol::lol:

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:04 PM
could you at least acknowledge the possibility that scheme is the problem? Oline was great enter McDaniels now they are bad...the players got sucky is the least logical conclusion.

never said it wasnt:coffee:

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:09 PM
who the f is baiting?... dont get your panties twisted
its a simple thing...i think whether we are talking ravens, indy or whatever game..the coaching is failing in the defense and oline/rbs

simple question why isnt there a grade for coaching...if you cant handle that...geez :lol::lol:


i dont wear panties, briefs or boxers im a free baller sorry......try again

silkamilkamonico
10-12-2010, 01:19 PM
I don't buy into these evaluations. How can they honestly grade when they don't even know what the assignments of the players are?

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:21 PM
Well, I for one am glad you post these. I don't always agree with them, but its good food for thought. Please contnue, by all means


thanks wish more people could be constructive like you i dont always agree with them either but its not like they are painting a pretty picture of the team so im confused what the big issue is here....its just info.....dont see why the need to trash the site....

i like and support the site if people start to get crazy here there is no need for me to bring the info here anymore, i mean it takes me over an hour each time just to translate the number system they use to letter grade scale, why bother...if people crap on it.....

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:21 PM
I don't buy into these evaluations. How can they honestly grade when they don't even know what the assignments of the players are?

then dont...from now on when it says profootball focus just dont read...probally make your day easier.....

silkamilkamonico
10-12-2010, 01:24 PM
then dont...from now on when it says profootball focus just dont read...probally make your day easier.....

Thank you. I made the mistake of thinking I was going to get some kind of objective nonbiased grading evaluation when I saw this thread. At least now I know.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:31 PM
Thank you. I made the mistake of thinking I was going to get some kind of objective nonbiased grading evaluation when I saw this thread. At least now I know.

yep its def orange koolaid right:rolleyes:

silkamilkamonico
10-12-2010, 01:35 PM
yep its def orange koolaid right:rolleyes:

irrelevant. It's guys looking at tape and making an assumption of what they think the player's assignments/reads are on that particular playcall = subjective and biased.

"Pass coverage"? How the hell do they know what their assignments are? "run blocking"?

I'm not disrespecting their opinion on evaluation, but let's not sit here and pretend they are making an accurate assumption based on the playcall, player's assignments, player reads...etc.

It's biased and subjective, just like any other evaluating format outside the coaches office.

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:39 PM
irrelevant. It's guys looking at tape and making an assumption of what they think the player's assignments are = subjective and biased.

"Pass coverage"? How the hell do they know what their assignments are? "run blocking"?

I'm not disrespecting their opinion on evaluation, but let's not sit here and pretend they are making an accurate assumption based on the playcall, player's assignments, player reads...etc.

It's biased and subjective, just like any other evaluating format outside the coaches office.

as i stated in a few post in this thread had you read them they even disclaim themselves untill they get actual gametape there will always be errors....


the work they do is about as close to eval as you can get without game tape and far more advanced than posters here...i will rember to make sure not to post it here anymore.....

you all can continue to fight about jay cutler, peyton hillis, mike nolan and brandon marshall since those threads seem to be so much more constructive then genral info some website spent time preparing for fans....

they do all 32 teams every week every play and have for 5 years, so forgive me for feeling they may have some good info...


guess josina tweets are more important

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 01:43 PM
RE-focused week 5 Baltimore vs Denver

Though Kyle Orton broke 300 passing yards for the fourth consecutive game, Baltimore’s pass defense limited the explosive Denver air attack just enough to decide the game on the ground — where the Ravens dominated, out-rushing the Broncos by almost 200 yards and gaining 2 yards more per carry.

An undisciplined showing by Denver, in which the Broncos were penalized 10 times, worked against Kyle Orton and company almost as much as the Ravens’ defense.


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/10/12/re-focused-week-5-broncos-at-ravens/

silkamilkamonico
10-12-2010, 01:43 PM
as i stated in a few post in this thread had you read them they even disclaim themselves untill they get actual gametape there will always be errors....

Unless the coaches explain to them the specifics of the particular play, there will always be errors.




you all can continue to fight about jay cutler, peyton hillis, mike nolan and brandon marshall since those threads seem to be so much more constructive then genral info some website spent time preparing for fans....

I think the opinion concept is kind of the driving force behind any, and all message boards.



they do all 32 teams every week every play and have for 5 years, so forgive me for feeling they may have some good info...

josina has some good info..



guess josina tweets are more important

I don't click into those misinformed threads either.

Lonestar
10-12-2010, 01:52 PM
Don't understand how DJ only gets a C when he had 15 tackles which was 6 more than the closest person to him. These ratings are interesting tho. Hope we beat Jets but things don't look good especially with the injuries! I will always keep the faith and optimism tho! Go Broncos!

Making a tackle from behind after they have gained 4 +yards does not have the same effect as stopping them at or behind the LOS. IMO not sure if that is in there grading scale but it is in mine.


Yeah, I just expected a few more failing grades. Our play was far below average collectively. On offense we didn't make it into the redzone until the 4th qtr if I remember correctly. And Baltimore pretty much moved the ball at will against our defense. Couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass and our blitzes were getting snuffed out at the line of scrimmage.

I remember when Kuper missed the Seattle game he said he could have played if it was just a knee injury, or just an ankle injury, but the two combined made it impossible. So I think he is more hurt than he is letting on. I don't think Denver would have rewarded him with the contract if they weren't confident in his abilities.

Unlike a lot of fans and members I have never been uber impressed with Kuper HE IMHO is a good ORG but will never be a pro bowler unless that is we win the super bowl and go undefeated then more players get allocades than maybe should get them.


If we can keep Kyle upright and with time we will own the jets. I am not nearly as worried about their offense as I was for Balt. IF the jets want to run, fine let them run, we will do what we can. But they are not going to score or move the ball and get tds against us if they run.

Meanwhile we are going to move the ball with our pass Offense, and we are going to do if fast. We should IMO be able to grab a lead and hold on for the win. It will be a close game but something like 24-21 us is reasonable imo.

Lets hope that they are gassed after the late game last night..

If we can do no huddle for the first 4 series they should wilt after that, playing at mile high with hopefully a home field crowd just might do it.

Lonestar
10-12-2010, 01:56 PM
I'm beginning to doubt the validity of these grades if Hochstein was rated the best OLineman during that game. I'm wondering if some of the pressures/penalties that Walton gave up were in double teams where Hochstein failed and Walton got blamed.

Maybe not, but Hochstein has never looked good to me.

Actually one of the holding calls came when kuper got hung up on another player and could not get the blitzer and Walton had to take him down opposed to Orton getting creamed.

I used to play ORG and that is part of the reason I'm not overly impressed with Kuper. maybe he is better than I think but I watch him a lot and he is certainly not what he was last year.

Dreadnought
10-12-2010, 01:57 PM
I think the opinion concept is kind of the driving force behind any, and all message boards.

So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...

Lonestar
10-12-2010, 02:19 PM
hochstein is a servicable vet coming off a bad knee injury.....i didnt expect him to play well....but all 4 besides him played bad the last few weeks, so maybe he did have a alright game. i dont know i dont watch tape im just a fan who listens to a site of guys that watch tape that i paid 90 bucks for...maybe im a tool and got hosed on the 90 but they seem pretty damn fair for the most part going all the way to last year......i havent seen anything galring or super erroneous everyone cant always be perfect...take and think what you want from them

i will give it a few more weeks but right now im not really inspired anymore to give the info here just how it is......


I for one really enjoy hearing from you on this and give you as satnding ovation for taking the time to do this for us.

Anyone that thinks it is crap keep your thoughts to your self or ignore the threads he starts.


thanks wish more people could be constructive like you i dont always agree with them either but its not like they are painting a pretty picture of the team so im confused what the big issue is here....its just info.....dont see why the need to trash the site....

i like and support the site if people start to get crazy here there is no need for me to bring the info here anymore, i mean it takes me over an hour each time just to translate the number system they use to letter grade scale, why bother...if people crap on it.....

same as above there are ingrates in every forum do not let them get you down.

as i stated in a few post in this thread had you read them they even disclaim themselves untill they get actual gametape there will always be errors....


the work they do is about as close to eval as you can get without game tape and far more advanced than posters here...i will rember to make sure not to post it here anymore.....

you all can continue to fight about jay cutler, peyton hillis, mike nolan and brandon marshall since those threads seem to be so much more constructive then genral info some website spent time preparing for fans....

they do all 32 teams every week every play and have for 5 years, so forgive me for feeling they may have some good info...


guess josina tweets are more important

good post



So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...


Thanks for posting this

This guy is putting time and effort into this for the betterment of the forum, there is not need for anyone to crap on his effort.

It is understood that any grading system outside of the teams film room will have inaccuracies and those we will never see so take the reports for what they are better guesstimates than what 90% of the forum members make. They are at lest unbiased and will have the same inaccuracies for all teams.


Or at least I appreciate the time and effort that he has put into this. and realize that it will not be perfect.

underrated29
10-12-2010, 02:27 PM
So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...




Yeah, I dont get it at all. It is something to talk about, it is broncos and it is fun. Plus it is an evaluation.


How many times have people here gone GAGA over someone TC camp reports? We all do and we eat it up. Why arent we harping them?

I said last year that I thought Chad Jackson and Tim Crowder were looking awesome and we would regret it if we cut them. Well, so far I was Waaay off. But no one is giving me hell for it. Yet, most people high fived or MHS me for my evaluation. I did not have replay, slomo or cameras to break shit down. I do not even know the blocking schemes or plays run. I never played madden. I just know what looks good and what doesnt and report that.


These guys do the same thing, but they are less Bias then me.:D And they have replay, slowmo, films, and a general idea of what the play is called and who is supposed to do what and go where. Plus, they also have thoughts and ideas that we may not.


These are not bad at all, but for the neg nancies, can you say these Broncos Evaluation threads are worse than the Jagsbach TT is the second coming threads?


Get real, give him a break, and reply if you must, but do it in regards to the info and not someone who is doing something that I and others really enjoy.

Bosco
10-12-2010, 04:18 PM
they state themsleves that grading of Db's and Wr's in there grading scale formulas isnt always accurate to the T because the TV Broadcast doesnt give them them full picture alot with regards to the route assigments and exact coverage schemes, so there is some guess work there hence the errors.....

they even say themselves that untill they get game tape access they wont be able to always get a accurate judge 100% on DB's and Wr's.....for the most part they are pretty spot on with everything else, and better that any stat website out there by far.....

its all good though i love how everyone knows best, vs a website full of guys that work day and night to analyze the data, and put hours of film viewing in every day while casual fans just sit back and say whats on there mind as if its fact....guess i will bring this stuff elsewhere, where people actually want to look at it......

I'm sorry, are you personally involved in this project or something? That's the only reason I can see you being so offended.

Look, as I said in my original post, I appreciate what these guys are doing, the work that goes into it and the fact that they can admit they're giving out grades without enough info, but that doesn't change the fact that much of their analysis is WRONG. It's not just coverage assignments either (which btw, I and many others can tell you the basic coverage breakdown from TV broadcasts on about 85% of all plays) but other simple things like blocking assignments and the like.

If you want to keep posting them here, fine, be my guest. I certainly don't mind either way. Just understand that this analysis you're posting is literally a crap shoot as to whether it's correct or not and in my not so humble opinion, the knowledge and accuracy of those doing the analysis is just as legitimate of a discussion point.

NightTrainLayne
10-12-2010, 05:29 PM
I'm sorry, are you personally involved in this project or something? That's the only reason I can see you being so offended.

Look, as I said in my original post, I appreciate what these guys are doing, the work that goes into it and the fact that they can admit they're giving out grades without enough info, but that doesn't change the fact that much of their analysis is WRONG. It's not just coverage assignments either (which btw, I and many others can tell you the basic coverage breakdown from TV broadcasts on about 85% of all plays) but other simple things like blocking assignments and the like.

If you want to keep posting them here, fine, be my guest. I certainly don't mind either way. Just understand that this analysis you're posting is literally a crap shoot as to whether it's correct or not and in my not so humble opinion, the knowledge and accuracy of those doing the analysis is just as legitimate of a discussion point.

I think where Elevation is frustrated, is he is trying to bring something to the board to elevate the discussion above the normal sniping of "McDoofus" etc., and is feeling criticized without any alternate analysis being provided. I.E. griping without suggestions as to improvement.

I think we all get your point of "take it for what it's worth", and your comments that they sometimes don't even diagnose zone vs. man correctly is definitely something to keep in mind (especially if you had an example of it), but overall, it is nice to see something generated outside of Denver that at least attempts to give an unbiased view of each players individual performance. If you've got something better, by all means let us look at it.

Bosco
10-12-2010, 05:44 PM
I think where Elevation is frustrated, is he is trying to bring something to the board to elevate the discussion above the normal sniping of "McDoofus" etc., and is feeling criticized without any alternate analysis being provided. I.E. griping without suggestions as to improvement.

I think we all get your point of "take it for what it's worth", and your comments that they sometimes don't even diagnose zone vs. man correctly is definitely something to keep in mind (especially if you had an example of it), but overall, it is nice to see something generated outside of Denver that at least attempts to give an unbiased view of each players individual performance. If you've got something better, by all means let us look at it.

I understand, and I'm not criticizing Elevation at all. I think he's a very good poster, one of the better ones on this forum and if he somehow felt my post was an attack on him then I sincerely apologize because that was not at all my intent.

shank
10-12-2010, 05:53 PM
anyone discrediting the site is being insanely nitpicky. no, it's not a perfect site, but it's absolutely better than any other form of analysis that we have access to. elevation is paying for this info and sharing it with us, which i appreciate greatly.

so until one of you debby-downers is going to go through every snap and do your own player-by-player analysis, then just smile and take this stuff for whatever you think it's worth, but don't shit all over the thread.

:salute: elevation.

Dzone
10-12-2010, 06:13 PM
i get all 32 teams......i will have the jets stuff here in a few....

Great info. Thanks!

Elevation inc
10-12-2010, 06:21 PM
I understand, and I'm not criticizing Elevation at all. I think he's a very good poster, one of the better ones on this forum and if he somehow felt my post was an attack on him then I sincerely apologize because that was not at all my intent.

i didnt consider you attacking...perhaps i was to callous in my response to you..my bad....there are others i have current issue with.....:beer:

broncobryce
10-12-2010, 06:29 PM
Thanks for this. Lots of people appreciate it.

Lonestar
10-12-2010, 06:45 PM
anyone discrediting the site is being insanely nitpicky. no, it's not a perfect site, but it's absolutely better than any other form of analysis that we have access to. elevation is paying for this info and sharing it with us, which i appreciate greatly.

so until one of you debby-downers is going to go through every snap and do your own player-by-player analysis, then just smile and take this stuff for whatever you think it's worth, but don't shit all over the thread.

:salute: elevation.

Hear hear I'll drink to that.:beer:

What gets me is the Guy spent money out of his own pocket and did not have to share with any of us.

While it may not be prefect analysis it is more than someone here that has a woody one way or the other for a player and gives us a slanted opinion.

While I suspect that the guys doing the analysis at this company have some favorites in the NFL they are also graded from time to time and like REFs should have a clear eye and pure heart in doing the eval.

Unlike someone that will remain nameless that thinks that Orton is scum of the earth because he has a woody for tebow.

If you do not have anything good to say about a good Samaritan shut the hell up.

Tned
10-12-2010, 06:47 PM
So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...


I think where Elevation is frustrated, is he is trying to bring something to the board to elevate the discussion above the normal sniping of "McDoofus" etc., and is feeling criticized without any alternate analysis being provided. I.E. griping without suggestions as to improvement.

I think we all get your point of "take it for what it's worth", and your comments that they sometimes don't even diagnose zone vs. man correctly is definitely something to keep in mind (especially if you had an example of it), but overall, it is nice to see something generated outside of Denver that at least attempts to give an unbiased view of each players individual performance. If you've got something better, by all means let us look at it.

To add to what these two fine gentlemen have said...

Aren't we all sick of the same old BS arguments?


The '08 offense was great, or it sucked?
McDaniels destroyed a near perfect offense or McDaniels rebuilt a crap roster full of holes?
Cutler is a future hall of famer or Cutler is drunkard version of Jeff George?
Cutler lied or McDaniels lied?
A healthy Moreno will be a productive back or he was a wasted first round pick?
Marshall is an elite receiver or he's women beating, douche who whined his way out of town?
Hillis is a versatile every down back or he's dumb as a brick an incapable of playing in McDaniels offense?


The list could go on and on and on and on...

Isn't anyone ready to talk about the 2010 Broncos and discuss some real football topics, which is what Elevation was trying to do? Can't we move past the bull shit factions and refusal to give an inch on feuds that date back to Shanahan being fired, or Cutler traded, or worse, Jake benched?

I know the last 15 games have been tough. It's one of the worst runs (wins/losses) in Broncos history. It's frustrating. But, continuing to argue about years-old grudges is pretty silly. Don't you think?

Just to finish the mini-rant. WTF is with the condescension? "Your source sucks". "Do you know anything about football?" and crap like that.

Is being right so important that you can't discuss things without trying to belittle others?

/mini rant