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Jagsbch
10-10-2010, 08:34 PM
What is more mind blowing the 6-10 standing we are in the rate of possessing.

Well we have gone full circle now, Broncos are 4-12 since the last time the Ravens and Broncos met.

In every tight game since last week the Broncos have only managed to score an averaged of less than 17 points per game in the 12 games lost.

Just as TD's thrown against prevent defense at the end of the half and game today meant nothing, neither do yards when it comes to winning games and going to the play-offs.

I think we ought to know by know that the Broncos have been phenomenally impressive at putting on a clinic for this reality.

Folks may not believe Orton is the problem, but one thing is as certain and clear as a rocky mountain stream, @ 4-13 Orton sure as hell is not the answer.

Discuss...

Northman
10-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Whats to discuss? We've had the same redzone problems for the last 5 years.

BroncoBJ
10-10-2010, 08:41 PM
Great in depth analys.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-10-2010, 08:45 PM
This thread, like others started by the same person, is totally ridiculous - ONCE AGAIN - bash Kyle - one of the FEW players who is playing GREAT right now :rolleyes:

Northman
10-10-2010, 08:48 PM
And people say he isnt a troll. lol

spikerman
10-10-2010, 08:49 PM
Jags, obviously your agenda is to show that Tebow should be playing - so in what ways, specifically, would having Tebow in there help Denver at this point? In other words, what could he do that Orton is not currently doing?

jhildebrand
10-10-2010, 08:52 PM
but one thing is as certain and clear as a rocky mountain stream.

Have you seen a rocky mountain stream? :confused:

Insisting Orton at this point is as silly as pretending Tebow would have led this team to a win today.

Watchthemiddle
10-10-2010, 09:00 PM
Discuss??? :confused:

Okay, as much as I like Tebow...he can't even make it off of third string.

How is Tebow going to improve our last ranked run offense?

While Tebow is clearly not ready to play yet, CLEARLY Orton is.....and is developing into a great leader and QB.

I guess the Titans were playing prevent in Ten last week when we came back and won. I guess the Colts were in prevent the ENTIRE game and that is why Orton went off in yardage.

You are blind as a bat.....

THe problem is not Orton and never has been for this team. It's the same problem that has plagued us for many many many years. It's that area of the field that a lot of teams struggle with but for some reason for us it is worse...it's called the RED ZONE

Tebow might get his chance someday. Here is my prediction...IF - and that is a BIG IF - If there is a season next year, Quinn will get bounced and Tebow will be the solid #2 QB. No way on earth does he jump ahead of Orton with the way Orton is playing this year. Without his play, the Broncos are 0-5.

If you were a REAL bronco fan everything I said above you would know...but since you are ONLY a PLAYER fan and not a team fan you wouldn't know.

Now....go back to www.floridagators.com...and play.

Rick
10-10-2010, 09:45 PM
Orton is averaging over 300 yards per game despite every defence knowing he is going to throw...he is not the problem.

Magnificent Seven
10-10-2010, 10:36 PM
I think Broncos should start throwing many dynamites early in game. Get Orton to Lloyd often!

PAINTERDAVE
10-10-2010, 10:39 PM
It is not just RED ZONE...

it is poor play calling, especially on 3rd and long.

Orton is not the one calling a short dump off screen when it is 3rd and 18.

Kyle has PROVEN he CAN make the long toss...

the Coach needs to start using it more on first down...
to stretch the field...

and on 3rd down, like
spikerman has said many times...

the long pass on 3rd and long

-might be a completion for a 1st
-might draw the pass interference call
-even if intercepted deep it is no worse than a punt.

to simply squander the opportunity with Maroney into the pile for a yard when we need 12... is simply ridiculous.

The o-line is struggling...
but the play calling is killing us.

Orton has shown he can do the job.

Josh has not put together a decent game plan.

Foochacho
10-10-2010, 10:42 PM
Yes let's discuss how awesome Kyle Orton is. Imagine the numbers Orton could put up if we had a run game, if the D had to stay honest and watch out for our runningbacks. His receivers would be even more wide open.

KCL
10-10-2010, 11:05 PM
okay Jags...obviously I am not a Broncos fan but I have read enough of your post to know that it's obvious you're not a Broncos fan either.

I understand you want to see Tebow playing like you did when he was in college.

Do you really want to see Orton benched and have Tebow the starter (like I don't know the answer to this).Orton puts up great numbers week after week.
How would having Tebow the starter change the record the Broncos have?

It doesn't make any difference to me who the QB is.I want you to answer how having Tebow instead of Orton at QB would change anything.

Please answer!!!

GEM
10-10-2010, 11:39 PM
Not even worth a reply. Your bait has gotten stale, I'm no longer biting.

KCL
10-10-2010, 11:48 PM
Not even worth a reply. Your bait has gotten stale, I'm no longer biting.

I have to shake my head and wonder what the hell.

Italianmobstr7
10-10-2010, 11:54 PM
What is more mind blowing the 6-10 standing we are in the rate of possessing.

Well we have gone full circle now, Broncos are 4-12 since the last time the Ravens and Broncos met.

In every tight game since last week the Broncos have only managed to score an averaged of less than 17 points per game in the 12 games lost.

Just as TD's thrown against prevent defense at the end of the half and game today meant nothing, neither do yards when it comes to winning games and going to the play-offs.

I think we ought to know by know that the Broncos have been phenomenally impressive at putting on a clinic for this reality.

Folks may not believe Orton is the problem, but one thing is as certain and clear as a rocky mountain stream, @ 4-13 Orton sure as hell is not the answer.

Discuss...

Orton is not 4-13. Orton is 10-10 as a Broncos QB.

8-7 in games he started last year.
2-3 so far this year. That = 10-10. Stop pulling bullshit numbers out of your ass to try and support your argument. YOU'RE NOT EVEN A BRONCOS FAN. You've said it yourself over and over, so why the hell do you care? Tebow is NOT starting this year. If you want to cover a team where Tebow is starting, it may be a couple of years. Sorry man. I like the guy too. I hope he's an absolute superstar for us but your arguments and your hatred of Orton is completely unwarranted and has very little to back it up. Orton has not been the problem with this team. Today it was mental mistakes, penalties, and the D's inability to stop the Ravens O consistently. Can Orton improve? Sure he can. Has he played well this season? You're damn right he has.

PAINTERDAVE
10-11-2010, 12:03 AM
I have to shake my head and wonder what the hell.

KCL... I think he meant JAGS whole thread... not your reply.

sneakers
10-11-2010, 12:25 AM
C'mon guys, quit being so hard on Jags....can you imagine having blue balls for 4 weeks now...it must be hard not being able to get off without the sight of Tebow playing football.

dogfish
10-11-2010, 01:28 AM
i don't read his shitty posts, but i couldn't help responding to the title. . .



Broncos are on pace to throw for over 5,500 yards

and run for like 3-400. . .


:fear:

silkamilkamonico
10-11-2010, 02:08 AM
C'mon guys, quit being so hard on Jags....can you imagine having blue balls for 4 weeks now...it must be hard not being able to get off without the sight of Tebow playing football.

He needs a Tebow "fix" after watching Tebow get his azz handed to him from Alabama in the SEC championship game.

I think he felt lied to.

ursamajor
10-11-2010, 02:16 AM
From a QB perspective, Kyle is running McD's offense at full pace-the playbook is wide open. He isn't the problem. In fact he is probably the one player that gives the Broncos the best chance to win week in and week out.

The best thing for Tebow is to sit and learn. Develop. Think Erin Rodgers.

silkamilkamonico
10-11-2010, 02:18 AM
From a QB perspective, Kyle is running McD's offense at full pace-the playbook is wide open. He isn't the problem. In fact he is probably the one player that gives the Broncos the best chance to win week in and week out.

The best thing for Tebow is to sit and learn. Develop. Think Erin Rodgers.

Best thing for Tebow to do is to understand Orton shouldn't be going anywhere, and beg McDaniels for a position change if he wants to see the field.

KCL
10-11-2010, 05:58 AM
KCL... I think he meant JAGS whole thread... not your reply.

Not sure who you're talking about...;)

JaxBroncoGirl
10-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Not even worth a reply. Your bait has gotten stale, I'm no longer biting.

Sorry Gem could not help myself. I want Tebow to play as bad as Jagwad but Tebow is simply not ready. Orton is playing well. Tebow could not have saved us yesterday and we simple minded people know that. We really should focus more on the running game and being physical (mean) on the defense. We also still have several players hurt, Tebow is good and all but I still do not think he parted the Red Sea. ;)

HORSEPOWER 56
10-11-2010, 10:21 AM
It is not just RED ZONE...

it is poor play calling, especially on 3rd and long.

Orton is not the one calling a short dump off screen when it is 3rd and 18.

Kyle has PROVEN he CAN make the long toss...

the Coach needs to start using it more on first down...
to stretch the field...

and on 3rd down, like
spikerman has said many times...

the long pass on 3rd and long

-might be a completion for a 1st
-might draw the pass interference call
-even if intercepted deep it is no worse than a punt.

to simply squander the opportunity with Maroney into the pile for a yard when we need 12... is simply ridiculous.

The o-line is struggling...
but the play calling is killing us.

Orton has shown he can do the job.

Josh has not put together a decent game plan.

This is a very good point, Dave. The one thing that peaks my curiosity is this: During last weeks game vs the Titans, I heard the commentators praising Orton and they said something along the line of Orton getting 2 plays in the huddle and getting to opt out of the 1st play for the second if it looks better at his pre-snap read (much like Indy does with Manning).

If that's the case, he probably gets a run play and a pass play called in based on the formation and HE makes the call on which one it will be. It's possible that Orton is making the run calls (shotgun draws on 3rd and long, etc) because the defense is spread out and there's nobody in the box to stop the run hoping we can catch the opposing defense off guard with a draw play. It also means that Orton is running the offense more than we thought and isn't just doing whatever McDaniels says to do.

Personally, I think our running game woes have a lot to do with what another poster pointed out - Walton appears to be "telegraphing" the snap every play. If that's the case, the defense can always beat the O-line to the gaps and thereby stuff the run (run right by the O-line who's trying to move forward to block) as opposed to the pass where the O-line gives ground and redirects to establish a pocket for the QB so they get that extra foot to engage the rusher before they are by them. I'm really buying into this snap-tell of Walton's after re-watching the games. It was a great catch by whoever saw it first.

topscribe
10-11-2010, 10:36 AM
I know there are those who are hanging onto the perception that Orton is a
average to slightly above average QB.

Let's face it: Right now, Kyle Orton is The Franchise. He is the ONE player on
the team the Broncos absolutely cannot afford to lose. Moreover, if he keeps up
his playing lights out, he is the QB of the future . . . or a QB of the future.

Consider: Kyle Orton is producing at a level never before witnessed in the 50-
year annals of Broncos history. In fact, he is threatening the NFL record itself.
Do I believe he will keep up that pace? I hope not because that will mean the
Broncos never did develop a running game and will be selecting very high in the
2011 draft. And, meanwhile, Orton might have gotten killed out there, anyway.

But now we know what the Broncos have in Kyle Orton. And you know what?
Kyle has the toughness that has gained the respect of those "tough" teams the
Broncos have just played, the kind of toughness McDaniels desires in the rest of
the team.

Kyle is the answer at QB. Time to move on and seek answers in other areas
where answers are urgently needed.

-----

NightTrainLayne
10-11-2010, 10:51 AM
This is a very good point, Dave. The one thing that peaks my curiosity is this: During last weeks game vs the Titans, I heard the commentators praising Orton and they said something along the line of Orton getting 2 plays in the huddle and getting to opt out of the 1st play for the second if it looks better at his pre-snap read (much like Indy does with Manning).

If that's the case, he probably gets a run play and a pass play called in based on the formation and HE makes the call on which one it will be. It's possible that Orton is making the run calls (shotgun draws on 3rd and long, etc) because the defense is spread out and there's nobody in the box to stop the run hoping we can catch the opposing defense off guard with a draw play. It also means that Orton is running the offense more than we thought and isn't just doing whatever McDaniels says to do.

Personally, I think our running game woes have a lot to do with what another poster pointed out - Walton appears to be "telegraphing" the snap every play. If that's the case, the defense can always beat the O-line to the gaps and thereby stuff the run (run right by the O-line who's trying to move forward to block) as opposed to the pass where the O-line gives ground and redirects to establish a pocket for the QB so they get that extra foot to engage the rusher before they are by them. I'm really buying into this snap-tell of Walton's after re-watching the games. It was a great catch by whoever saw it first.

We're telegraphing something. It seems the defenses know exactly where the play is going on a run play every time.

Walton might be part of it, and that might explain why Tennessee had multiple off-sides penalties in the Tennessee game.. .i.e. the Broncos are aware of it, and trying to negate it. Obviously, Tennessee was confident that they knew when the ball was being snapped because they kept doing it into the 4th quarter.

Certainly knowing the snap count helps, but I think we are somehow telegraphing more than that, because there are always 5 guys in the hole it seems. Unfortunately, I've only seen one game on my own television with DVR so I can't analyze it as well (on the radio or in the bar doesn't lend much help to really picking apart the plays).

Jagsbch
10-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Orton is a play it to be safe rather than play to win style of play is what has this team in its 4-13 losing rut.

Yet Orton worshippers insist McDaniels is the problem while ignorantly assuming Orton has proven to be a deep threat, when that could not be any further from the truth.

There is a difference between being a deep passing threat during the game rather than during prevent...

A TD with 57 seconds left in the first half against prevent defense with all day to throw it, is too little to late... A TD with 43 seconds to go at the end of the game when your losing 31 to ten is to little too late...

As if McDaniels is holding Orton and the team back, by playing to the strengths of the check it down to the safe dink and dunk style play his QB possess.

As if there are not a plethera of deep routes on any given passing play in any given game that I have witnessed Orton time and time again refuse to throw too, while in an attempt to maintain his high percentage style game rather than a take what you want rather than what the defense gives you style of play that wins games.

Orton had 2 passes in prevent thrown for 20 or more yards: his TD's...

Outside of prevent Orton only threw it past 20 yards twice, he completed it once and it fell incomplete the other time.

When your biggest passing impact in the game is during prevent when your already down by 17 points or more, while the rest of the game your failing to make an impact with the deep passing game, to me is an atrocity.

You have to throw it deep more than 2 times outside of prevent when you are given 38 passing attempts in order to open up lanes for the running game.

McDaniels has the deep passing routes in play, Ortons refusal to utilize them is what is killing the Broncos.

I showed how coming into this game Orton has had 75 passing plays executed with 5 yards of the line of scrimage, this just causes the pressure on the line to boil over to the running game by opponents game plan to shut this down.

What we saw this week was more of the same. Ortons playing it safe style rather than play to win while taking what the defense gives him rather than what he wants from the defense is IMO the biggest obstacle the Broncos face in their attempt to get out of their losing rut.

I am sorry for everyone who absolutely refuses to get a take so obvious. I guess even at 4-13 Ignorance is bliss for Orton worshippers. Keep spinning this into a debate about me being a Tebow homer, when the spin is clearly immenating from the Orton worshippers. As if mediocrity was king. :tsk:

jhildebrand
10-11-2010, 11:27 AM
Do you know what prevent d means? :confused:

It means prevent the deep play. Keep everything in front of you. Orton isn't the problem. He isn't checking to the RB after getting through his first read like he did much of last year.

Tebow would not help this team win yesterday. In fact, my guess is the margin of loss would have been much worse!!!

jhildebrand
10-11-2010, 11:28 AM
By the way, the injury to DT probably hurt the team in play calling much more than we know.

NightTrainLayne
10-11-2010, 11:33 AM
Orton is a play it to be safe rather than play to win style of play is what has this team in its 4-13 losing rut.


Where are you coming up with this 4-13?

Orton is .500 as a starter since coming to Denver, and if (worst-case) you extrapolate our current 2-3 record out for 16 games you get 6-10 (rounding down). . .but the last half of our schedule is immensely easier than this first 1/3 is.

Jagsbch
10-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Where are you coming up with this 4-13?

Orton is .500 as a starter since coming to Denver, and if (worst-case) you extrapolate our current 2-3 record out for 16 games you get 6-10 (rounding down). . .but the last half of our schedule is immensely easier than this first 1/3 is.

I guess I was looking too far ahead...:D:D (I counted all 10 games since the losing rut started last season rather than 8 losses, it threw off the calculations, adding 10 games to the 3 losses rather than 8 losses threw it all off. human error; I have been known to be human.)

Orton is actually 4-11 on the verge of being 4-12 and 4-13 if he is not traded by then...

4 wins out of the last 15 games? Orton has got to go, I am telling you guys his play it safe rather than play it to win is killing the Broncos while making himself look good... It is a joke being played on Broncos fan who buy into the absurdity that orton is anything but the Problem.

jhildebrand
10-11-2010, 11:46 AM
Do you have a really achy bad flu again? :confused:

So, hypothetically, if Tebow took over this team beginning with the jets and went 4-7 to finish this season, should we trade him too? :confused:

Please answer the question directly.

Jagsbch
10-11-2010, 11:55 AM
I am just about over the flu... I really do expect Orton to be traded, before the deadline...

jhildebrand
10-11-2010, 11:57 AM
I am just about over the flu... I really do expect Orton to be traded, before the deadline...

Well...like your talk of the prevent d, you don't know what you are talking about.

Orton isn't going anywhere for the simple fact that he is the very player who is doing the most to keep McD from being officially on the hot seat.

Anybody with a non biased viewpoint (biased only as a broncofan and not as a tebow fan first) can see that.

KCL
10-11-2010, 12:04 PM
Orton is a play it to be safe rather than play to win style of play is what has this team in its 4-13 losing rut.

Yet Orton worshippers insist McDaniels is the problem while ignorantly assuming Orton has proven to be a deep threat, when that could not be any further from the truth.

There is a difference between being a deep passing threat during the game rather than during prevent...

A TD with 57 seconds left in the first half against prevent defense with all day to throw it, is too little to late... A TD with 43 seconds to go at the end of the game when your losing 31 to ten is to little too late...

As if McDaniels is holding Orton and the team back, by playing to the strengths of the check it down to the safe dink and dunk style play his QB possess.

As if there are not a plethera of deep routes on any given passing play in any given game that I have witnessed Orton time and time again refuse to throw too, while in an attempt to maintain his high percentage style game rather than a take what you want rather than what the defense gives you style of play that wins games.

Orton had 2 passes in prevent thrown for 20 or more yards: his TD's...

Outside of prevent Orton only threw it past 20 yards twice, he completed it once and it fell incomplete the other time.

When your biggest passing impact in the game is during prevent when your already down by 17 points or more, while the rest of the game your failing to make an impact with the deep passing game, to me is an atrocity.

You have to throw it deep more than 2 times outside of prevent when you are given 38 passing attempts in order to open up lanes for the running game.

McDaniels has the deep passing routes in play, Ortons refusal to utilize them is what is killing the Broncos.

I showed how coming into this game Orton has had 75 passing plays executed with 5 yards of the line of scrimage, this just causes the pressure on the line to boil over to the running game by opponents game plan to shut this down.

What we saw this week was more of the same. Ortons playing it safe style rather than play to win while taking what the defense gives him rather than what he wants from the defense is IMO the biggest obstacle the Broncos face in their attempt to get out of their losing rut.

I am sorry for everyone who absolutely refuses to get a take so obvious. I guess even at 4-13 Ignorance is bliss for Orton worshippers. Keep spinning this into a debate about me being a Tebow homer, when the spin is clearly immenating from the Orton worshippers. As if mediocrity was king. :tsk:

Not one thing about how having Tebow as QB would have helped...figures...:rolleyes:

KCL
10-11-2010, 12:05 PM
I am just about over the flu... I really do expect Orton to be traded, before the deadline...

I don't think having the flu is your only problem.

Lonestar
10-11-2010, 12:08 PM
We're telegraphing something. It seems the defenses know exactly where the play is going on a run play every time.

Walton might be part of it, and that might explain why Tennessee had multiple off-sides penalties in the Tennessee game.. .i.e. the Broncos are aware of it, and trying to negate it. Obviously, Tennessee was confident that they knew when the ball was being snapped because they kept doing it into the 4th quarter.

Certainly knowing the snap count helps, but I think we are somehow telegraphing more than that, because there are always 5 guys in the hole it seems. Unfortunately, I've only seen one game on my own television with DVR so I can't analyze it as well (on the radio or in the bar doesn't lend much help to really picking apart the plays).

Just maybe TEN and BAL have great defenses after all DAL got their ass handed to them at home yesterday by that Defense.

I suspect it more than us just sucking.

Lonestar
10-11-2010, 12:25 PM
I am just about over the flu... I really do expect Orton to be traded, before the deadline...

I understand there is a huge sale on TIN FOIL at K mart this weekend, might want to check into that.

Walmart has Ex lax on sale also.

Rick
10-11-2010, 12:25 PM
Jesus just how good you think Tebow is? Keep some reality.

Look at other rookies.

Bradford 66.5 rating.
Sanchez last year 63 rating.
Stafford last year 61 rating.

Orton this year 97.8 rating.

Just what will Tebow as a rookie do that is better than what Orton has done?

Get into reality man, he is a rookie.

Gimpygod
10-11-2010, 12:41 PM
Well...like your talk of the prevent d, you don't know what you are talking about.

Orton isn't going anywhere for the simple fact that he is the very player who is doing the most to keep McD from being officially on the hot seat.

Anybody with a non biased viewpoint (biased only as a broncofan and not as a tebow fan first) can see that.

maybe this guy is crazy… Crazy like a fox! Think about it McDaniels didn't want any Shanahan guys on offense because that would take away from the idea of McDaniels being a genius and being the sole reason for offensive success. So now Kyle is looking pretty darned talented thereby detracting from the McDaniels scheme, face it Kyle is losing "character" with every 300 yard game. I think the original poster is correct and we trade Kyle Orton for a sixth round draft pick and a tickle me Elmo. That same tickle me Elmo cracks the starting lineup at running back and increases production tenfold on the ground because he is far grittier and has better vision than any one we currently have on the team. Crazy? I think not!

I Eat Staples
10-11-2010, 12:59 PM
In other words, what could he do that Orton is not currently doing?

Throw picks, fumble, make poor reads, take sacks, run every other play, get ****** up by the other team's middle linebacker. I can probably think of a few others but you get the point.


How would having Tebow the starter change the record the Broncos have?

We definitely wouldn't have beat the Titans, so we'd be lucky to have one win against the Seahawks.

Day1BroncoFan
10-11-2010, 01:01 PM
Orton is the one for now.

/thread

LTC Pain
10-11-2010, 01:53 PM
Correction! Orton is on pace to set a new NFL passing record. He is the man! TT will be someday but not now.

ursamajor
10-11-2010, 03:14 PM
I don't get it-wanting to see Tebow out on the field before he is ready. Wide spread opinion was that Clausen was the most NFL ready QB after Bradford-we all saw what happened to Clausen last Sunday.

topscribe
10-11-2010, 04:00 PM
Jesus just how good you think Tebow is? Keep some reality.

Look at other rookies.

Bradford 66.5 rating.
Sanchez last year 63 rating.
Stafford last year 61 rating.

Orton this year 97.8 rating.

Just what will Tebow as a rookie do that is better than what Orton has done?

Get into reality man, he is a rookie.

Yes, and yesterday Kyle's rating was 104.5, yet McDaniels' analysis was that Kyle
had a "fairly good day at passing." If McDaniels wasn't any more impressed than
that, it indicates to me that he expects even more of Kyle.

Yet, if a rookie produced the kind of numbers Kyle did yesterday, everyone's jaw
would be hitting the floor. Makes it kind of ludicrous that anyone would want a
rookie, any rookie, to replace a QB who is producing at that level, doesn't it?

-----

bcbronc
10-11-2010, 04:23 PM
it is poor play calling, especially on 3rd and long.

Orton is not the one calling a short dump off screen when it is 3rd and 18.

Kyle has PROVEN he CAN make the long toss...

Josh has not put together a decent game plan.

I don't agree with that strategy at all, not against Baltimore. one thing McDaniel's did a great job with is keeping Orton off his back. I don't think he took any big hits the entire game, and I don't credit our o-line for that (I guess the holding calls helped a bit). take the soft yards and play field position.

and Josh can only be held responsible for so much when the running game keeps giving you 2nd and 12 and penalties keep shooting you in the foot.

Orton's play does get me thinking we would have been better served putting the picks dealt for Tebow towards building up the trenches.

Gimpygod
10-11-2010, 04:28 PM
I don't agree with that strategy at all, not against Baltimore. one thing McDaniel's did a great job with is keeping Orton off his back. I don't think he took any big hits the entire game, and I don't credit our o-line for that (I guess the holding calls helped a bit). take the soft yards and play field position.

and Josh can only be held responsible for so much when the running game keeps giving you 2nd and 12 and penalties keep shooting you in the foot.

Orton's play does get me thinking we would have been better served putting the picks dealt for Tebow towards building up the trenches.

that's incorrect as head coach he is completely responsible for all aspects of the team!

topscribe
10-11-2010, 04:29 PM
I don't agree with that strategy at all, not against Baltimore. one thing McDaniel's did a great job with is keeping Orton off his back. I don't think he took any big hits the entire game, and I don't credit our o-line for that (I guess the holding calls helped a bit). take the soft yards and play field position.

and Josh can only be held responsible for so much when the running game keeps giving you 2nd and 12 and penalties keep shooting you in the foot.

Orton's play does get me thinking we would have been better served putting the picks dealt for Tebow towards building up the trenches.

Yes, my friend, but you know what they say about hindsight . . .

-----

bcbronc
10-11-2010, 04:35 PM
that's incorrect as head coach he is completely responsible for all aspects of the team!

in an abstract way, sure. end of the day, our player beats their player or not though.

Gimpygod
10-11-2010, 05:27 PM
in an abstract way, sure. end of the day, our player beats their player or not though.

who puts those players on the field/picks them?

rcsodak
10-11-2010, 06:00 PM
It is not just RED ZONE...

it is poor play calling, especially on 3rd and long.

Orton is not the one calling a short dump off screen when it is 3rd and 18.

Kyle has PROVEN he CAN make the long toss...

the Coach needs to start using it more on first down...
to stretch the field...

and on 3rd down, like
spikerman has said many times...

the long pass on 3rd and long

-might be a completion for a 1st
-might draw the pass interference call
-even if intercepted deep it is no worse than a punt.

to simply squander the opportunity with Maroney into the pile for a yard when we need 12... is simply ridiculous.

The o-line is struggling...
but the play calling is killing us.

Orton has shown he can do the job.
Josh has not put together a decent game plan.PD, you might also catch them looing pass and break off a long run. Plus, ANY positive yards vs an incompletion is better when it comes to field position, imo. BTW, 40+yds rush lost to penaltys?
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rcsodak
10-11-2010, 06:05 PM
From a QB perspective, Kyle is running McD's offense at full pace-the playbook is wide open. He isn't the problem. In fact he is probably the one player that gives the Broncos the best chance to win week in and week out.

The best thing for Tebow is to sit and learn. Develop. Think Erin Rodgers.
YUMMY! Isnt that the chick on the old Battlestar Gallactica? :slobber:
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