Still Think It Was NOLAN?

[WARHORSE]

Alot of people were giving credit for out defensive turnaround last year to Mike Nolan.

Im wondering, of those who think that, what you honestly think now.


This isnt a thread to bicker back and forth in. Just honest opinions of what you see in the defense this year vs last year, and how much Nolan had to do with it.

Peace!

[Ravage!!!]

I think the defensive line is better this year, personnel wise, than last. Yes, I think it was Nolan. What would be the other alternative?

[WARHORSE]

I think the defensive line is better this year, personnel wise, than last. Yes, I think it was Nolan. What would be the other alternative?


The entire defense was better personnel wise than the prior year pretty much last year when Nolan came in.

And yes....... What would be the alternative?

[Northman]

I think the defensive line is better this year, personnel wise, than last. Yes, I think it was Nolan. What would be the other alternative?

I agree.

Nolan didnt really have the Dline that we have this year and its obvious its made a HUGE difference thus far in the ability to stop the run. If not for the absolutely terrible ST's play in Miami that could of easily been a winnable game for Miami and they have been playing good defense down there. But bad ST's and turnovers will kill any defense in the long run. Basically, Nolan was only given one season here before his toes were stepped on and considering what he had to work with he did a great job. But this year, McD got Wink some help on the Dline and that has been the difference.

[jhildebrand]

I still believe it was Nolan. It is hard to take anything away from him at this point.

1. Nolan faced a much tougher schedule last year.
2. Nolan stepped into a much worse situation and made it better.
3. Wink is building off of Nolan's accomplishments from last year
4. It was said Wink would only be tweaking what Nolan did. In essence, he is running things very similar to Nolan.

Wink does deserve credit. However, we are only in week 4. Let's see what happens by week 17.

EDIT: I also believe the O is scoring more, has less three and outs and better TOP which is helping the D to remain much more fresh than last year.

[dogfish]

I still believe it was Nolan. It is hard to take anything away from him at this point.

1. Nolan faced a much tougher schedule last year.
2. Nolan stepped into a much worse situation and made it better.
3. Wink is building off of Nolan's accomplishments from last year
4. It was said Wink would only be tweaking what Nolan did. In essence, he is running things very similar to Nolan.

Wink does deserve credit. However, we are only in week 4. Let's see what happens by week 17.

EDIT: I also believe the O is scoring more, has less three and outs and better TOP which is helping the D to remain much more fresh than last year.

i agree with most of this. . . nolan was the transitional coach, he helped lay the foundation for our switch to the 3-4-- by promoting from within the current staff, we're continuing to build on what was established last year. . . naturally wink's going to incorporate some of his own touches, and probably ditch at least a few things, but we're working with the same terminology and probably a number of the same concepts. . .

besides which, it's too early to judge wink accurately-- i was pleased with the hire, and am encouraged so far. . . our D looked great early last year, though-- we need to hold up down the stretch before we make any definitive statements. . .

also, wink has to get by without doom this year. . . we can't really, fairly compare him to nolan until wink has our stud pass rusher to work with. . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

All I will say is that I really like the job "Wink" is doing, and it gets better each week - hope it stays that way.

[WARHORSE]

Nolan helped our defense. He is a 3-4 specialist.

But he was not the reason our defense turned around last year.


He was part of the reason...but not THE reason imo.


Josh and X are just as responsible, not to mention...the players.

I think guys like Champ and Dawk had a huge impact on how our defense turned around last year, along with Goody and Hill.

These are veteran players and it was smart of Josh and X to recognize they needed experience to go with talent.

Without players capable of carrying out schemes, it doesnt matter how the Dcoordinator draws things up. Also, this defense is without Doom.

Big difference.

Nolan is gone, and our defense is better imo.

Does that reject the notion that Nolan played a part? No.

He did.

But we're better now, so Im glad Nolan is in Miami where the defense is getting torched. Hope he can pull himself up by the straps.


Wink is making the most so far of his opportunity.

And more power to him.

[Lonestar]

Alot of people were giving credit for out defensive turnaround last year to Mike Nolan.

Im wondering, of those who think that, what you honestly think now.


This isnt a thread to bicker back and forth in. Just honest opinions of what you see in the defense this year vs last year, and how much Nolan had to do with it.

Peace!
think Nolan had a good Idea and put together a good defense with what he had. he is good with organizing not so sure he is great with X-o's


I now think Wink has taken it a step farther with some new players.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

One of the things that really impresses me about "Wink", is that he is doing what he is, without Elvis, who played a major role in the defense last year - how big is that?

[Northman]

Nolan helped our defense. He is a 3-4 specialist.

But he was not the reason our defense turned around last year.


He was part of the reason...but not THE reason imo.


Josh and X are just as responsible, not to mention...the players.

I think guys like Champ and Dawk had a huge impact on how our defense turned around last year, along with Goody and Hill.

These are veteran players and it was smart of Josh and X to recognize they needed experience to go with talent.

Without players capable of carrying out schemes, it doesnt matter how the Dcoordinator draws things up. Also, this defense is without Doom.

Big difference.

Nolan is gone, and our defense is better imo.

Does that reject the notion that Nolan played a part? No.

He did.

But we're better now, so Im glad Nolan is in Miami where the defense is getting torched. Hope he can pull himself up by the straps.


Wink is making the most so far of his opportunity.

And more power to him.


Too early to say we are better now. We are 2-2 as opposed to 4-0 last year at this point. Furthermore, if your going to give half the credit to Josh and X for turning the defense around last year than they should share the blame in the collapse at the end of the season as well as the players you mentioned. We will see where we stand at the end of the year of whether or not it was a success in terms of Wink but right now its way too early. However, i still find it kind of odd that you would even bring up Nolan at this point. He's gone and all the focus should be on what we are doing this year.

[SOCALORADO.]

Wink has JWilliams and Bannan, and those are two huge run stuffers up front, which have been instrumental in stopping the run so far. They also allow players who are average at best to make plays right behind them. This has been the biggest improvement to me so far, and Wink has the benefit. If Nolan was still in DEN they would be equally as good, if not even better.
But i love what Wink is doing so far.
BALT will be a big test. Last time i checked they could run the football.

[Northman]

Wink has JWilliams and Bannan, and those are two huge run stuffers up front, which have been instrumental in stopping the run so far. They also allow players who are average at best to make plays right behind them. This has been the biggest improvement to me so far, and Wink has the benefit. If Nolan was still in DEN they would be equally as good, if not even better.
But i love what Wink is doing so far.
BALT will be a big test. Last time i checked they could run the football.

Indeed. Although we are improved vs the run we are still giving up more points thus far than we did through 4 games last year. We are also not winning like we were to start the year last year.

Through the first 4 games in 09' we were 4-0 and had only given up 27 points on defense.

This year, we are 2-2 and have given up 85 points. Huge difference.

[broncobryce]

We also had Doom last year, our best player on defense. This season Miami is giving up 23 points per game and we are giving up 21 fwiw

[Northman]

We also had Doom last year, our best player on defense. This season Miami is giving up 23 points per game and we are giving up 21 fwiw

Depends who you ask. Ive been told all offseason that its more of a "team" oriented football team. Its been said in the original post that Wink has done outstanding without Doom. So are we giving credit to Wink over Nolan without considering which neither guy had while here? You cant blame one guy being out for an excuse while not pointing to the lack of Dline for the other guy. Its just not logical.

[Jagsbch]

we're continuing to build on what was established last year. ..

Wink made it clear this year this is not his defense or Nolans defense. Enough said... When you say wink is running a similar defense, then what you are really saying is that he is running the very defense McDaniels brought to Denver.

It blows my mind see so many want to take credit away from McDaniels despite the fact he was the head coach here last year establishing both his defense and offense foundations for "his" team, while his subordinants executed the implementations of it.

Even though the 'wiz kid' McDaniels spent most of his career on the offensive side of the ball, one can't ignore the fact that his mentor Bill Belichick is the preeminent defensive mind in football, or that he was a defensive assistant coach when he first joined the Patriots.

McDaniels specialty as a defensive assistant for the Patriots was the secondary. Broncos passing defense ranked third in the league last season, a far cry from their 26th ranking the season before McDaniels took over as head coach of the Broncos.

Most of us are all too aware of McDaniels offensive genious, but we have not even started to scratch the surface of the genious he brings in regards to his understanding on the side of the ball he started his coaching career in the NFL with...

McDaniels coaching tree started while he was in the crib, he was bread to be a coach, it jammed in his genes by his father Thom McDaniels 'legend of Ohio high school football' (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/sports/football/30patriots.html?_r=1)

McDaniels started his coaching career off being an assistant for Nick Saban, Yes the same Nick Saban that has been putting on a clinic for out coaching Gators Urban Meyer (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/480706-florida-gators-put-on-a-clinic-for-being-out-coached-by-alabama).

Having Mike Nolan around last year ought not to detract from the fact that this is McDaniels dream team from the defense all the way to special teams, this is a man who spent his entire life aspiring to be a head coach. He is a student of both the defensive as well as the offensive side of the ball.

A lot of folks around here want to believe it is my fandom of Tebow that has me parading as a Broncos fan...

Make no Mistake about, I am a bigger fan of the passing offense than I am of any player in this league, for me the game is bigger than the team and the players, and McDaniels is just the man for the job of delivering the game I want to see on any given Sunday~!! This is why I am a fixture around here, make no mistake about it...

And seeing him possess the the coaching tree he has, even to the point of being tight with Urban Meyer and possessing plays from him as well as much insight into the game I am sure has me compelled to believe what I am watching in Denver is a legend in the making...:beer:


:elefant:http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/276/494/93308355_display_image.jpg?1277763704:elefant:

[rcsodak]

I agree.

Nolan didnt really have the Dline that we have this year and its obvious its made a HUGE difference thus far in the ability to stop the run. If not for the absolutely terrible ST's play in Miami that could of easily been a winnable game for Miami and they have been playing good defense down there. But bad ST's and turnovers will kill any defense in the long run. Basically, Nolan was only given one season here before his toes were stepped on and considering what he had to work with he did a great job. But this year, McD got Wink some help on the Dline and that has been the difference.
So you're saying miami didnt already have a pretty good D? That bringing in a major player in the D didnt help? That having a good running game doeant help the D? As far as nolans "toes" getting stepped on, he was told by the HC to run certain schemes. When he's HC again (haha) he can run whatever he wants. Until then.....
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[Northman]

So you're saying miami didnt already have a pretty good D? That bringing in a major player in the D didnt help? That having a good running game doeant help the D? As far as nolans "toes" getting stepped on, he was told by the HC to run certain schemes. When he's HC again (haha) he can run whatever he wants. Until then.....
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I never made that claim. But their ST's are a trainwreck and played a MAJOR factor in their last two losses. Thats not speculation, just fact.

[arapaho2]

Nolan helped our defense. He is a 3-4 specialist.

But he was not the reason our defense turned around last year.


He was part of the reason...but not THE reason imo.


Josh and X are just as responsible, not to mention...the players.

I think guys like Champ and Dawk had a huge impact on how our defense turned around last year, along with Goody and Hill.

These are veteran players and it was smart of Josh and X to recognize they needed experience to go with talent.

Without players capable of carrying out schemes, it doesnt matter how the Dcoordinator draws things up. Also, this defense is without Doom.

Big difference.

Nolan is gone, and our defense is better imo.

Does that reject the notion that Nolan played a part? No.

He did.

But we're better now, so Im glad Nolan is in Miami where the defense is getting torched. Hope he can pull himself up by the straps.


Wink is making the most so far of his opportunity.

And more power to him.


last year at this time we were the number 1 defense in scoreing, and total defense, kept teams scorless in entire second half...and in alot of cases without a 3rd down conversion..thats with a offense that flat out was pathetic..we ended the season as the 7th total defense even with the late season troubles

for the life of me i cant see how dropping from the #1 total defense and #1 scoreing defense at this junction of the season
to 16th total defense and 20th in scoreing defense with a much better offense shows we are better than last year???:lol:

P/s miami is the 6th ranked team in total defense..we are the 16th..do the math

[rcsodak]

Indeed. Although we are improved vs the run we are still giving up more points thus far than we did through 4 games last year. We are also not winning like we were to start the year last year.

Through the first 4 games in 09' we were 4-0 and had only given up 27 points on defense.

This year, we are 2-2 and have given up 85 points. Huge difference.
Thats funny....many, last year, stated a few of those games won last year were ONLY because of luck. As far as the points, I agree. But Indy is better than cinci. Tenn got 7 on a return. ST's gave the jags the 50yd line all game long. I just dont think you can compare opponents that easily. :shrugs:
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[Northman]

Thats funny....many, last year, stated a few of those games won last year were ONLY because of luck. As far as the points, I agree. But Indy is better than cinci. Tenn got 7 on a return. ST's gave the jags the 50yd line all game long. I just dont think you can compare opponents that easily. :shrugs:
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In a league full of parity you can.

[broncobryce]

Depends who you ask. Ive been told all offseason that its more of a "team" oriented football team. Its been said in the original post that Wink has done outstanding without Doom. So are we giving credit to Wink over Nolan without considering which neither guy had while here? You cant blame one guy being out for an excuse while not pointing to the lack of Dline for the other guy. Its just not logical.

A team oriented football team doesn't have a best player?:confused:

[Jagsbch]

...for the life of me i cant see how dropping from the #1 total defense and #1 scoreing defense at this junction of the season
to 16th total defense and 20th in scoreing defense with a much better offense shows we are better than last year???:lol:

P/s miami is the 6th ranked team in total defense..we are the 16th..do the math

Lets not forget Elvis has left the building...:rolleyes:

[Northman]

A team oriented football team doesn't have a best player?:confused:

You tell me. I was told Doom wasnt that important to the team. :lol:

Never the less, If Wink's troubles are based off of the loss of Doom than surely the lack of Dline last year contribute to the problems for Nolan.

[dogfish]

You tell me. I was told Doom wasnt that important to the team. :lol:


old news. . . just answer the question, claire. . . :heh:

[Northman]

old news. . . just answer the question, claire. . . :heh:


I did. I believe Doom is valuable and the best player on defense. However, all offseason i was told that with a "team" concept Doom was expendable and that it wasnt necessary to give him a long term contract. I was told that "sacks" were great but that "pressure" was the true deal compared to sacks. I thought they were crazy then and still think they are crazy now.

[silkamilkamonico]

I credit McDaniels for recognizing the needs and getting the right people to fill in. He has done an outstanding job, on both the offense and defense, of improving the personnel he needs to run his system, more specifically in the right places along both the oline/dline.

[arapaho2]

Lets not forget Elvis has left the building...:rolleyes:


you mean the elvis who it said was a liability in the run defense and supposedly a one trick pony?..that elvis?

suddenly he's the reason we struggle...seems the the additions of better dline would negate his minimal impact...right?

oh i get it...its a case of..when dooms unsigned its because mcd doesnt wanna waste money on a situational pass rusher

now when he gone its " we arent as good cause dooms gone...:coffee:

[silkamilkamonico]

I did. I believe Doom is valuable and the best player on defense. However, all offseason i was told that with a "team" concept Doom was expendable and that it wasnt necessary to give him a long term contract. I was told that "sacks" were great but that "pressure" was the true deal compared to sacks. I thought they were crazy then and still think they are crazy now.

McDaniels is left filling the hole from Doom getting hurt. If he chose to not re-sign Doom, he would have found someone better to fill that hole, and the defense would be even better than it is right now.

People said the exact same thing about Brandon Marshall and the offense, yet McDaniels knew what he was doing all along with that and it shows.

[silkamilkamonico]

you mean the elvis who it said was a liability in the run defense and supposedly a one trick pony?..that elvis?

suddenly he's the reason we struggle...seems the the additions of better dline would negate his minimal impact...right?

oh i get it...its a case of..when dooms unsigned its because mcd doesnt wanna waste money on a situational pass rusher

now when he gone its " we arent as good cause dooms gone...:coffee:

This is a terrible argument. What team/unit is actually better, or equal to their own success when they lose their most dynamic and impactful player? 0?

:coffee:

[Northman]

McDaniels is left filling the hole from Doom getting hurt. If he chose to not re-sign Doom, he would have found someone better to fill that hole, and the defense would be even better than it is right now.

People said the exact same thing about Brandon Marshall and the offense, yet McDaniels knew what he was doing all along with that and it shows.

Well, obviously he does know what he is doing because he thinks that Doom is better than your stating and signed him. So with that, we agree.

[silkamilkamonico]

Well, obviously he does know what he is doing because he thinks that Doom is better than your stating and signed him. So with that, we agree.

What I'm stating? Doom is one of the most dynamic pass rushers in the NFL, last year should have shown that to the people that think otherwise. Obviously it played a HUGE factor in McDaniels re-signing him.

[Northman]

What I'm stating? Doom is one of the most dynamic pass rushers in the NFL, last year should have shown that to the people that think otherwise. Obviously it played a HUGE factor in McDaniels re-signing him.

You stated with your last post that McD would of gone out and signed someone better had Elvis not re-signed. I cant think of anyone on the free agent market in the offseason that was better. Never the less, it doesnt change the fact that if Wink is struggling this year because Doom is out. (if you buy that Doom is the sole reason) than it is very clear that the reason Nolan had issues last year was because he didnt have guys like Williams or Bannan on the line. That is the whole point of the discussion here. The original poster would like us to believe that Nolan wasnt really the difference maker last year even though through the first 4 games the defense held the opponent to 27 points as opposed to 85 this year. And Nolan did that (are you ready for it?) without a real Dline. The bottom line for me is its way too early to declare Wink's tenure a success until we've seen how the season plays out. If we collapse again i wont view it as a success regardless if we continue to hold opposing RB's under 100 yds. Despite the improvement on the Dline we are still 2-2 as compared to 4-0 last year.

[silkamilkamonico]

You stated with your last post that McD would of gone out and signed someone better had Elvis not re-signed. I cant think of anyone on the free agent market in the offseason that was better. Never the less, it doesnt change the fact that if Wink is struggling this year because Doom is out. (if you buy that Doom is the sole reason) than it is very clear that the reason Nolan had issues last year was because he didnt have guys like Williams or Bannan on the line. That is the whole point of the discussion here. The original poster would like us to believe that Nolan wasnt really the difference maker last year even though through the first 4 games the defense held the opponent to 27 points as opposed to 85 this year. And Nolan did that (are you ready for it?) without a real Dline. The bottom line for me is its way too early to declare Wink's tenure a success until we've seen how the season plays out. If we collapse again i wont view it as a success regardless if we continue to hold opposing RB's under 100 yds. Despite the improvement on the Dline we are still 2-2 as compared to 4-0 last year.

On a reverse notion, we declared Nolan's tenure a success last year at this point, only to have it blow up in our face and watch players run for over 200 yards on us at the end of the year.

If McDaniels did not intend on re-signing Doom, he would have addressed that position in some way, shape, or fashion. Maybe even the draft. We can't possibly know that, or know what his intentions were with Doom at the draft last year.

As far as the argument with the defense, the defense has done a hell of a job without Doom, who's arguably the league's most dynamic pass rusher. having to "throw" someone into the mix because a starter gets injured is very different than not re-signing that starter, and having a long term plan in action of replacing him somehow.

Our defense right now is 16th in the NFL. I bet with Doom it would be top 12, maybe even top 10.

[Northman]

On a reverse notion, we declared Nolan's tenure a success last year at this point, only to have it blow up in our face and watch players run for over 200 yards on us at the end of the year.

Actually, to some degree it was. Arapaho pointed out some stats from last year despite the collapse. But even if you ignore that aspect of it its not rocket science to understand that overall we did improve from 08'.


If McDaniels did not intend on re-signing Doom, he would have addressed that position in some way, shape, or fashion. Maybe even the draft. We can't possibly know that, or know what his intentions were with Doom at the draft last year.

Of coure he would have. But again, there was a strong notion by some on this board that Doom wasnt worth the price we paid. Obviously, and thankfully, McDaniels knew better and kept him.


As far as the argument with the defense, the defense has done a hell of a job without Doom, who's arguably the league's most dynamic pass rusher. having to "throw" someone into the mix because a starter gets injured is very different than not re-signing that starter, and having a long term plan in action of replacing him somehow.

The question hasnt been whether or not the defense has played admirably. The question posted originally was whether or not Nolan was a difference maker. And the answer is simply yes.


Our defense right now is 16th in the NFL. I bet with Doom it would be top 12, maybe even top 10.

Could be, we just wont know this year but hard to argue that with a REAL pass rusher we couldnt be better. But, as both Wink and Nolan have found out you have to work with what you have.

[silkamilkamonico]

Actually, to some degree it was. Arapaho pointed out some stats from last year despite the collapse. But even if you ignore that aspect of it its not rocket science to understand that overall we did improve from 08'.

And yet we haven't followed to the depths of the NFL defense when Nolan was let go like so many people here pointed out would happen too.








The question hasnt been whether or not the defense has played admirably. The question posted originally was whether or not Nolan was a difference maker. And the answer is simply yes.
.

I will also choose to give McDaniels some credit, because after coming out of a grouped tenure where Denver's defense was the absolute worst in the history of the franchise, McDaniels immediately changed that, and then after losing the one guy a lot of people thought was the difference maker, has contiunued to show an improved defense, even in the midst of an injury to the best player on defense.

[Northman]

And yet we haven't followed to the depths of the NFL defense when Nolan was let go like so many people here pointed out would happen too.

Not yet anyway. Still early and the win/loss record isnt better or the same. But a ways to go yet.




I will also choose to give McDaniels some credit, because after coming out of a grouped tenure where Denver's defense was the absolute worst in the history of the franchise, McDaniels immediately changed that, and then after losing the one guy a lot of people thought was the difference maker, has contiunued to show an improved defense, even in the midst of an injury to the best player on defense.

Well, i would hope that it was pretty clear what needed to be addressed after the year before. If McD hadnt addressed the Dline could you imagine the uproar? I just think that was a common sense move. But while the run defense has improved the keeping the scoring down has gotten worse. Again, just have to wait and see how it plays out.

[rcsodak]

you mean the elvis who it said was a liability in the run defense and supposedly a one trick pony?..that elvis?

suddenly he's the reason we struggle...seems the the additions of better dline would negate his minimal impact...right?

oh i get it...its a case of..when dooms unsigned its because mcd doesnt wanna waste money on a situational pass rusher

now when he gone its " we arent as good cause dooms gone...:coffee:
No. Its a cas e that ya'll are screaming about no pass rush, when the best rusher is out. Don't make more of it than it is.
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[rcsodak]

One also might venture to say that the run D is better BECAUSE on no elvis. Nobody can deny he was a hindrance to stopping runs to the left side last year. I just hope he comes back next year stronger and faster.
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[Northman]

One also might venture to say that the run D is better BECAUSE on no elvis. Nobody can deny he was a hindrance to stopping runs to the left side last year. I just hope he comes back next year stronger and faster.
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Yea, ive seen you and someone else make that claim. So, is the reason why we have given up 85 points this year as opposed to 27 last year the reason for Doom or not?

[jhildebrand]

You tell me. I was told Doom wasnt that important to the team. :lol:


I was told the same thing. I was also told he is the reason for the run D's issues.

[rcsodak]

Not yet anyway. Still early and the win/loss record isnt better or the same. But a ways to go yet.





Well, i would hope that it was pretty clear what needed to be addressed after the year before. If McD hadnt addressed the Dline could you imagine the uproar? I just think that was a common sense move. But while the run defense has improved the keeping the scoring down has gotten worse. Again, just have to wait and see how it plays out.
Many of us, with Jr our leader, have been.screaming for Dline help for the last umpteen years! Fields was brought in on the advice of nolan, but he tired out as the yr progressed. McD brought in some tried/true 34 guys and we're hoping he addresses it next yr in the draft. Agaiin, MOST teams improve from the year prioe, so saying the opponents thus far are lesser than last year can be debated.
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[Ravage!!!]

Last year the defense held the opposing offense completely scoreless in the second half in 5 of the first 6 games.

This year, the defense is more stout against the run, but giving up more than 3x the number of points. Some will say that is because Doom is out of the game. Thats giving 60 points to a pass rusher that others will say was a liability to the run defense.

I think we know that the personnel on the DL is much better this season....other than Doom. So is doom worth 60 points?? Is the run defense better without Doom?

So if the defense is better this year than last, should we have given Doom that big contract? Are we assuming that the defense would only be better with the best player ON the field? If so, how come that doesn't apply to the offense... aren't we getting better by subtraction?

Its a TEAM sport. The TEAM doesn't need individual stars....right?

[jhildebrand]

At this point, one thing is certain. Nolan is responsible for taking a D that was ranked in the bottom third of the league in all categories and having them IMPROVE in EVERY SINGLE category.

He did it with no real D line whatsoever! The same D line that every single expert including Mark Schlereth said was "garbage."

He did it against much tougher opponents!

Nolan did it. He was the one that was hired and it is hard to dispute otherwise.

Is Wink doing a good job? Sure. But then again, I do recall a Jags team where Garrard looked like the reincarnation of Tom Brady.

This thread will be book marked though. Because it is just like last year!!!! When something is good all the credit is going to Josh.

The minute there was a breakdown, the blame went squarely on Nolan's shoulders :lol:

Well, let's see where we are after week 16. This time, if things breakdown, you wont be able to lay the blame elsewhere.

[rcsodak]

Yea, ive seen you and someone else make that claim. So, is the reason why we have given up 85 points this year as opposed to 27 last year the reason for Doom or not?
Do you actually think its that simple? :tsk:
I'm stating what most would percieve as a fact. Look up the stats if you want. But if you dont stop the run, you dont get the ball back as many times. Then you press. Then you make mistakes. Right now, denver is doing a great job vs the run. Big challenge on sunday. On the other hand, tenn sacked kyle 6x....and still lost. You do the math. ;-)
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[Ravage!!!]

:confused:

[jhildebrand]

Do you actually think its that simple? :tsk:
I'm stating what most would percieve as a fact. Look up the stats if you want. But if you dont stop the run, you dont get the ball back as many times. Then you press. Then you make mistakes. Right now, denver is doing a great job vs the run. Big challenge on sunday. On the other hand, tenn sacked kyle 6x....and still lost. You do the math. ;-)
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Do the math: how many 3 and outs did the offense have?

How many times did they leave the D a short field after going four and out?

How many times did they have 10 minutes or less TOP in the second half of games?

[TXBRONC]

Alot of people were giving credit for out defensive turnaround last year to Mike Nolan.

Im wondering, of those who think that, what you honestly think now.


This isnt a thread to bicker back and forth in. Just honest opinions of what you see in the defense this year vs last year, and how much Nolan had to do with it.

Peace!

Yes I do think that Nolan was one of the main reasons for the turnaround of our defense last year.

[Northman]

Many of us, with Jr our leader, have been.screaming for Dline help for the last umpteen years!

And how ironic that i was right there with you. ARGHHH< OMG its not possible is it?


Fields was brought in on the advice of nolan, but he tired out as the yr progressed. McD brought in some tried/true 34 guys and we're hoping he addresses it next yr in the draft. Agaiin, MOST teams improve from the year prioe, so saying the opponents thus far are lesser than last year can be debated.


Of course, we have improved in the running game because we FINALLY went and got some real Dlineman. Of course, had we actually done that in the first place last year we may not have collapsed. If McD had as much say as some claim in here he is just as responsible for that collapse as Nolan is. Im fine with that.

[Northman]

Last year the defense held the opposing offense completely scoreless in the second half in 5 of the first 6 games.

This year, the defense is more stout against the run, but giving up more than 3x the number of points. Some will say that is because Doom is out of the game. Thats giving 60 points to a pass rusher that others will say was a liability to the run defense.



Great point. Imagine if we had the offense (in terms of 3rd down completions, etc) last year in the second half. Not only would that defense have gotten more rest but we probably would have gotten more opportunities for points.

[rcsodak]

At this point, one thing is certain. Nolan is responsible for taking a D that was ranked in the bottom third of the league in all categories and having them IMPROVE in EVERY SINGLE category.

He did it with no real D line whatsoever! The same D line that every single expert including Mark Schlereth said was "garbage."

He did it against much tougher opponents!

Nolan did it. He was the one that was hired and it is hard to dispute otherwise.

Is Wink doing a good job? Sure. But then again, I do recall a Jags team where Garrard looked like the reincarnation of Tom Brady.
This thread will be book marked though. Because it is just like last year!!!! When something is good all the credit is going to Josh.
The minute there was a breakdown, the blame went squarely on Nolan's shoulders :lol:
Well, let's see where we are after week 16. This time, if things breakdown, you wont be able to lay the blame elsewhere.
In defiance of tneds manifesto
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[Northman]

Do you actually think its that simple? :tsk:
I'm stating what most would percieve as a fact. Look up the stats if you want. But if you dont stop the run, you dont get the ball back as many times. Then you press. Then you make mistakes. Right now, denver is doing a great job vs the run. Big challenge on sunday. On the other hand, tenn sacked kyle 6x....and still lost. You do the math. ;-)
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I dont know if i would hang my hat on a 2-2 record vs a 4-0 record that much i do know. :D

[rcsodak]

:confused:
back atcha. :coffee:
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[rcsodak]

Do the math: how many 3 and outs did the offense have?

How many times did they leave the D a short field after going four and out?

How many times did they have 10 minutes or less TOP in the second half of games?
wow.....drinking vino.....you lost me. ; )
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[WARHORSE]

At this point, one thing is certain. Nolan is responsible for taking a D that was ranked in the bottom third of the league in all categories and having them IMPROVE in EVERY SINGLE category.

He did it with no real D line whatsoever! The same D line that every single expert including Mark Schlereth said was "garbage."

He did it against much tougher opponents!

Nolan did it. He was the one that was hired and it is hard to dispute otherwise.

Is Wink doing a good job? Sure. But then again, I do recall a Jags team where Garrard looked like the reincarnation of Tom Brady.

This thread will be book marked though. Because it is just like last year!!!! When something is good all the credit is going to Josh.

The minute there was a breakdown, the blame went squarely on Nolan's shoulders :lol:

Well, let's see where we are after week 16. This time, if things breakdown, you wont be able to lay the blame elsewhere.



Whats amazing to me is the stubborness to want to give all the credit to Nolan and no one else.

Both you and Northman seem to take offense to someone mentioning that Josh and X had a TON to do with the defensive turnaround, which is not rational.


Lets look at the Defensive starters pre-Nolan:

LDE Ekuban
RDE Dumerville
RT Marcus Thomas
LT Dwayne Robertson

Subs-Engleberger, Moss, Crowder

WLB DJ Williams
SLB Jamie Winborn
MLB Nate Webster

Subs-Boss Bailey, Niko Koutivedes, Louis Green, Haggan, Woodyard

FS M. Mcree
SS M. Manuel

Subs, Barrett, Rogers, Hamza Abdullah

LCB Champ
RCB Bly


Subs-Jack Williams, Bell, Calvin Lowry, Paymah,


Im not even going to list the defense from last year, cause its head and tails better personel than whats listed above.....which is terrible.


The defensive line last year was shabby, but yet our defense was highly ranked in the first six games.


Its easy to see that Nolan was part of the turnaround.

Its also easy to see that Josh and X had a big part of this turnaround.

Bowlen did also. He shelled out 100 mil.

[jhildebrand]

In defiance of tneds manifesto
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Nothing I stated is in defiance of Tned's manifesto.

People here have already credited both Josh and X for this year's D. Which is fine. They did the same last year as well. Which was fine. The problem arose when people then decided the blame rested solely on Nolan's shoulders.

Simply put, this thread and that comment have been saved. That way, if there is another collapse, it will be much harder to weasel out of. I get tired of the credit being all McD's but the blame elsewhere.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Let's not forget - "Wink" was a defensive coach last year. He may deserve some credit also for last year.

[TXBRONC]

Originally Posted by jhildebrand
At this point, one thing is certain. Nolan is responsible for taking a D that was ranked in the bottom third of the league in all categories and having them IMPROVE in EVERY SINGLE category.

He did it with no real D line whatsoever! The same D line that every single expert including Mark Schlereth said was "garbage."

He did it against much tougher opponents!

Nolan did it. He was the one that was hired and it is hard to dispute otherwise.

Is Wink doing a good job? Sure. But then again, I do recall a Jags team where Garrard looked like the reincarnation of Tom Brady.
This thread will be book marked though. Because it is just like last year!!!! When something is good all the credit is going to Josh.
The minute there was a breakdown, the blame went squarely on Nolan's shoulders Well, let's see where we are after week 16. This time, if things breakdown, you wont be able to lay the blame elsewhere.



In defiance of tneds manifesto
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What you highlighted doesn't go against Tned's manifesto the way I understand it.

[jhildebrand]

Whats amazing to me is the stubborness to want to give all the credit to Nolan and no one else.

Both you and Northman seem to take offense to someone mentioning that Josh and X had a TON to do with the defensive turnaround, which is not rational.


Lets look at the Defensive starters pre-Nolan:

LDE Ekuban
RDE Dumerville
RT Marcus Thomas
LT Dwayne Robertson

Subs-Engleberger, Moss, Crowder

WLB DJ Williams
SLB Jamie Winborn
MLB Nate Webster

Subs-Boss Bailey, Niko Koutivedes, Louis Green, Haggan, Woodyard

FS M. Mcree
SS M. Manuel

Subs, Barrett, Rogers, Hamza Abdullah

LCB Champ
RCB Bly


Subs-Jack Williams, Bell, Calvin Lowry, Paymah,


Im not even going to list the defense from last year, cause its head and tails better personel than whats listed above.....which is terrible.


The defensive line last year was shabby, but yet our defense was highly ranked in the first six games.


Its easy to see that Nolan was part of the turnaround.

Its also easy to see that Josh and X had a big part of this turnaround.

Bowlen did also. He shelled out 100 mil.

The problem WARHORSE is I don't credit ONE person entirely as others are doing.

Last year I credited McD for having the wherewithall to hire Nolan in the first place. It was a great hire and Nolan made him look good for the hire.

Second, I like how all the people on D that panned out are the result of McD and X yet Fields is the sole responsibility of Nolan. I think it is safe to say that Nolan had input on every person that made it to the team last year let alone the roster.

EVEN THEN, at the end of the day, one person was forced to come up with a scheme and coach the players despite their limitations and short comings.

It was a new coach, a new system, an almost entirely new roster, and a new scheme. SOUND FAMILIAR? The difference is his unit IMPROVED IN EVERY CATEGORY and someone else's DECLINED!!

Oh and while we are addressing McD and the personell on D: let's not forget that we have 9 of 11 starters on D 30+ in age. He also has only spent one real high draft pick (as currently situated) on the D.

[jhildebrand]

Let's not forget - "Wink" was a defensive coach last year. He may deserve some credit also for last year.

Very good point.

[rcsodak]

Nothing I stated is in defiance of Tned's manifesto.

People here have already credited both Josh and X for this year's D. Which is fine. They did the same last year as well. Which was fine. The problem arose when people then decided the blame rested solely on Nolan's shoulders.

Simply put, this thread and that comment have been saved. That way, if there is another collapse, it will be much harder to weasel out of. I get tired of the credit being all McD's but the blame elsewhere.
ummmm...there is no 'delete button' in the internet. Lol
Its just the same from those that credit JUST nolan. But I ask you.....WHO HIRED NOLAN?
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[Northman]

Nothing I stated is in defiance of Tned's manifesto.

People here have already credited both Josh and X for this year's D. Which is fine. They did the same last year as well. Which was fine. The problem arose when people then decided the blame rested solely on Nolan's shoulders.

Simply put, this thread and that comment have been saved. That way, if there is another collapse, it will be much harder to weasel out of. I get tired of the credit being all McD's but the blame elsewhere.

Exactly.

Personally, i would love to move on and just discuss the pro's and con's of the current coaches and players. But when some post threads like this i have to wonder why they cannot move on? There's plenty to be happy about with Wink as well as some things that are concerns. But, none of which has to do with Nolan.

[Ravage!!!]

and who got rid of Nolan. Thats really not the discussion.

[Northman]

Whats amazing to me is the stubborness to want to give all the credit to Nolan and no one else.



Thats totally incorrect on your part. I have never stated it was just Nolan. But Nolan was the BIGGER part of it. Just like if we have a great defense this year Wink will be a BIGGER part of it. Its how DC's, HC's make names for themselves mate. But, i also have to say that those who wish to BLAME it all on Nolan dont want to place blame on McD for the collapse. Im fine with EVERYONE sharing the blame and praise. But certainly Nolan coming and doing his thing contributed a LOT to the turnaround. That just cant be denied. Just like we have been screaming for some Dlineman for years ive been screaming for a REAL DC for years. And finally we had one.

[jhildebrand]

ummmm...there is no 'delete button' in the internet. Lol
Its just the same from those that credit JUST nolan. But I ask you.....WHO HIRED NOLAN?
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You just can't keep up. If anyone has consistently flaunted and violated Tned's manifesto it would be you with this.

You really should try to keep up as I posted this a while ago. Long enough before this little gem of yours I quoted. :rolleyes:

[WARHORSE]

The problem WARHORSE is I don't credit ONE person entirely as others are doing.
Sorry. I didnt see your giving credit to other guys. Isnt this your quote below saying you give credit to Nolan? Just tryin to understand where youre coming from.


I still believe it was Nolan. It is hard to take anything away from him at this point.

1. Nolan faced a much tougher schedule last year.
2. Nolan stepped into a much worse situation and made it better.
3. Wink is building off of Nolan's accomplishments from last year
4. It was said Wink would only be tweaking what Nolan did. In essence, he is running things very similar to Nolan.

Wink does deserve credit. However, we are only in week 4. Let's see what happens by week 17.

EDIT: I also believe the O is scoring more, has less three and outs and better TOP which is helping the D to remain much more fresh than last year.


Last year I credited McD for having the wherewithall to hire Nolan in the first place. It was a great hire and Nolan made him look good for the hire.

Second, I like how all the people on D that panned out are the result of McD and X yet Fields is the sole responsibility of Nolan. I think it is safe to say that Nolan had input on every person that made it to the team last year let alone the roster.

EVEN THEN, at the end of the day, one person was forced to come up with a scheme and coach the players despite their limitations and short comings.
True. This person was Josh McDaniels. Not Nolan as some have spoken.


It was a new coach, a new system, an almost entirely new roster, and a new scheme. SOUND FAMILIAR? The difference is his unit IMPROVED IN EVERY CATEGORY and someone else's DECLINED!!

Oh and while we are addressing McD and the personell on D: let's not forget that we have 9 of 11 starters on D 30+ in age. He also has only spent one real high draft pick (as currently situated) on the D.


Anyway, Nolan imo is not the sole architect of the defensive turnaround last year, and neither is anyone else. Wink is not the sole player either in the defense this year.

It takes an organizational effort to make turnarounds, and whether anyone wants to give the cheese to the winner or not, the HC is Josh McDaniels.
The defense is doing fine this year considering Nolan is gone, and making moot the thought that he was the sole mastermind behind the turnaround last year. There was no sole mastermind.

Bowlen, in the final word.....is ultimate master, and he will be the one who's house displays all hardware won in the future if any.

[jhildebrand]

Anyway, Nolan imo is not the sole architect of the defensive turnaround last year, and neither is anyone else. Wink is not the sole player either in the defense this year.

It takes an organizational effort to make turnarounds, and whether anyone wants to give the cheese to the winner or not, the HC is Josh McDaniels.
The defense is doing fine this year considering Nolan is gone, and making moot the thought that he was the sole mastermind behind the turnaround last year. There was no sole mastermind.

Bowlen, in the final word.....is ultimate master, and he will be the one who's house displays all hardware won in the future if any.

I have yet to give all the credit to Nolan. I never could seeing how McDaniels had to hire him ;) That alone was worth a ton of credit in my book. Firing him will be worth a ton of blame if the D fails us by year's end. We are on the same page War.

However, should this D finish below Miami....you aren't getting out of our little sig bet :D

[Ravage!!!]

Anyway, Nolan imo is not the sole architect of the defensive turnaround last year, and neither is anyone else. Wink is not the sole player either in the defense this year.

It takes an organizational effort to make turnarounds, and whether anyone wants to give the cheese to the winner or not, the HC is Josh McDaniels.
The defense is doing fine this year considering Nolan is gone, and making moot the thought that he was the sole mastermind behind the turnaround last year. There was no sole mastermind.

Bowlen, in the final word.....is ultimate master, and he will be the one who's house displays all hardware won in the future if any.

Yes, but Marge made the call that Bowlen ordered. Joe is the one that fixed the phone jack so that Marge could make the call. Billy, the bicycle boy, is the one that delivered the part to Joe so that he could fix the phone-jack, so that Marge could make the phone call, that Bowlen ordered to make.

So really, Billy the bicycle boy is the one responsible for getting Nolan here, and thus, the one responsible for the change in the defense last year.

Im making a joke, but I'm saying that every owner in the NFL is the "mastermind" then. Then there is no need to give credit to McD, nor blame Shanahan for anything this team has accomplished or failed at for the last years. Its on on Bowlen.

[TXBRONC]

Yes, but Marge made the call that Bowlen ordered. Joe is the one that fixed the phone jack so that Marge could make the call. Billy, the bicycle boy, is the one that delivered the part to Joe so that he could fix the phone-jack, so that Marge could make the phone call, that Bowlen ordered to make.

So really, Billy the bicycle boy is the one responsible for getting Nolan here, and thus, the one responsible for the change in the defense last year.

Im making a joke, but I'm saying that every owner in the NFL is the "mastermind" then. Then there is no need to give credit to McD, nor blame Shanahan for anything this team has accomplished or failed at for the last years. Its on on Bowlen.

Who the hell is Marge?

[Ravage!!!]

Who the hell is Marge?

The secretary that made the call that bowlen ordered

[TXBRONC]

The secretary that made the call that bowlen ordered

That's makes sense. In 99% of the businesses in America it's the secretary who actually has all the power. Most CEOs are just figure heads.

[Medford Bronco]

We also had Doom last year, our best player on defense. This season Miami is giving up 23 points per game and we are giving up 21 fwiw

Dont forget Miami has a train wreck for Special teams
and the 41 NE Put was not all on their D.

They got a kickoff return, a pick for a TD, a blocked FG for a TD
and the special teams let NE drive 15 yards after a blocked kick.

Miami's D is not that bad. The special teams is quite pathetic.

[horsepig]

Wink has JWilliams and Bannan, and those are two huge run stuffers up front, which have been instrumental in stopping the run so far. They also allow players who are average at best to make plays right behind them. This has been the biggest improvement to me so far, and Wink has the benefit. If Nolan was still in DEN they would be equally as good, if not even better.
But i love what Wink is doing so far.
BALT will be a big test. Last time i checked they could run the football.

Very good points. I like Wink too. But, man-a-live DJ is playing lights out!

Me thinks the DLine improvement has made DJ look like what we always expected. He's all over the field and in on almost every tackle.

[WARHORSE]

I have yet to give all the credit to Nolan. I never could seeing how McDaniels had to hire him ;) That alone was worth a ton of credit in my book. Firing him will be worth a ton of blame if the D fails us by year's end. We are on the same page War.

However, should this D finish below Miami....you aren't getting out of our little sig bet :D

By no means am I trying to weasel out of that.

My money is, and always will be...on the BRONCOS!!!


Id rather be poor than bet on anyone else.;)

[Lonestar]

I was told the same thing. I was also told he is the reason for the run D's issues.

I'll just jump in here not necceasrily is this pointed at you. but this is as far as I have read in teh thread.


Points are up Yard on the ground are DOWN dramatically over last years average.

That can be addressed by at least two things Ayers stepping up and sealing the edge and not allowing any RB past him. and J Williams being an immovable object.

Now there might be more but we have held Manning almost in check for 4 quarters and CJ the best RB in the league to 54 yards on 19 carries IIRC.

Nolan wanted fields, I'm not sure if that was all that Josh would give him, but I got the impression that he thought fields could handle the starting job from the git go. There was very little swapping of NT in preseason or in TC, it was his job period.

There was an error made in thinking Fields could play NY for a full season and not wear down.

Will I lay that on Nolan or Josh? You choose on whom to blame.

IMO we are better this year than last even without Doom, whom the coaching staff saw fit to re-sign in spite of my commentary.:laugh::laugh:

When Doom get back along with Ayers and Maybe an addition in the draft of another bonafide NT, DE and maybe monster MLB we should be damned good.

[Ravage!!!]

Thats simple enough. Another monster NT, Monster LB and a good DE. easy

[WARHORSE]

Yes, but Marge made the call that Bowlen ordered. Joe is the one that fixed the phone jack so that Marge could make the call. Billy, the bicycle boy, is the one that delivered the part to Joe so that he could fix the phone-jack, so that Marge could make the phone call, that Bowlen ordered to make.

So really, Billy the bicycle boy is the one responsible for getting Nolan here, and thus, the one responsible for the change in the defense last year.

Im making a joke, but I'm saying that every owner in the NFL is the "mastermind" then. Then there is no need to give credit to McD, nor blame Shanahan for anything this team has accomplished or failed at for the last years. Its on on Bowlen.


I dont disagree at all.

The credit goes to all involved.


But..ultimately....IFFFF it were going to one head person.....we have to say....at least in this organization.......that the buck stops on Pat Bowlens desk.

He is one of the owners who is listed as president, and actually carries out his duties and as well, he signs the checks of all involved. Including himself.


Broncos Baby.

[Ravage!!!]

I dont disagree at all.

The credit goes to all involved.


But..ultimately....IFFFF it were going to one head person.....we have to say....at least in this organization.......that the buck stops on Pat Bowlens desk.

He is one of the owners who is listed as president, and actually carries out his duties and as well, he signs the checks of all involved. Including himself.


Broncos Baby.

I like your enthusiasm and such.

But Bowlen is also the owner that prefers to hire a coach and let him have control of personnel. He did with Shanahan, and he did with a young McDaniels.

So I don't see it quite as you do, but hey.... :salute:

[Lonestar]

Whats amazing to me is the stubborness to want to give all the credit to Nolan and no one else.

Both you and Northman seem to take offense to someone mentioning that Josh and X had a TON to do with the defensive turnaround, which is not rational.


Lets look at the Defensive starters pre-Nolan:

LDE Ekuban
RDE Dumerville
RT Marcus Thomas
LT Dwayne Robertson

Subs-Engleberger, Moss, Crowder

WLB DJ Williams
SLB Jamie Winborn
MLB Nate Webster

Subs-Boss Bailey, Niko Koutivedes, Louis Green, Haggan, Woodyard

FS M. Mcree
SS M. Manuel

Subs, Barrett, Rogers, Hamza Abdullah

LCB Champ
RCB Bly


Subs-Jack Williams, Bell, Calvin Lowry, Paymah,


Im not even going to list the defense from last year, cause its head and tails better personel than whats listed above.....which is terrible.


The defensive line last year was shabby, but yet our defense was highly ranked in the first six games.


Its easy to see that Nolan was part of the turnaround.

Its also easy to see that Josh and X had a big part of this turnaround.

Bowlen did also. He shelled out 100 mil.

what is left from that mess.

Woodyard as substitute MLB/ST captain
RT Marcus Thomas as an DE as a substitute
RDE Dumerville as an OLB on IR but a starter

WLB DJ Williams as an MLB starter
LCB Champ as a starter the only player playing the original position.:salute:

5 of 27 defensive players left

The rest of those players?

I'm guessing at the Aurora mall in a Cell phone Kiosk..

[nevcraw]

2 and 2

not really a record for back slapping and congratulations for anyone at this point, yet..

[Medford Bronco]

2 and 2

not really a record for back slapping and congratulations for anyone at this point, yet..

Beat the Ravens in Balt where we suck over the years and then there will be plenty of back slapping. :beer:

[Northman]

Beat the Ravens in Balt where we suck over the years and then there will be plenty of back slapping. :beer:

It would be a nice step in the right direction thats for sure.

[Elevation inc]

Too early to say we are better now. We are 2-2 as opposed to 4-0 last year at this point. Furthermore, if your going to give half the credit to Josh and X for turning the defense around last year than they should share the blame in the collapse at the end of the season as well as the players you mentioned. We will see where we stand at the end of the year of whether or not it was a success in terms of Wink but right now its way too early. However, i still find it kind of odd that you would even bring up Nolan at this point. He's gone and all the focus should be on what we are doing this year.

the whole damn team is to blame for that collapse last year including MCD, and any other coach that was here, but MCD already admitted to the public he was to blame in numerous press conferences....so its a moot point.......

[Elevation inc]

lets be real here though nolan turned around the worst defense in the NFL credit is due for that......wink is building off it with out our star defensive player major props to him as well, but both wink and nolan also had blame last year for the collapse as well......


kinda unfair to compare for me, but the good news is we are far from the defenses we fielded from 2006-2009 with both DC's thats props to both the DC's....i dont miss nolan and enjoy wink, but i wont discredit nolan for the turnaround he was a major factor in

we move on and so far things are playing out solidly for us

[shank]

Beat the Ravens in Balt where we suck over the years and then there will be plenty of back slapping. :beer:

i'm gonna ask clay for a reach around.

[broncosinindy]

Nolan schemed better pressure.

I think wink adjusts better.

just my two cents

[Dean]

Alot of people were giving credit for out defensive turnaround last year to Mike Nolan.

Im wondering, of those who think that, what you honestly think now.


This isnt a thread to bicker back and forth in. Just honest opinions of what you see in the defense this year vs last year, and how much Nolan had to do with it.

Peace!

Yes, I think that it was mostly Mike Nolan.

[Nomad]

Wink took over where Nolan left off! Nolan did turn around this defense compared to Slowik but I believe Dumervil made Nolan shine (though Ayers isn't doing too bad a job)! We'll see how Wink does in these next games especially the second half of the season where obviously Nolan's defense didn't come through!!

I also agree with indy's take!!

[TimTebow15MVP]

no it wasnt nolan, it was mcdaniels and the broncos. the broncos made nolan. im glad hes gone. run blitzing peyton manning was laughable. good way ta get dallas clark in one on one situations with a LB/safety lol. dallas clark had what 3 touchdowns? i know its only one game but it shows you juss how crazy nolan was. theres just some things you dont do to peyton manning and thats run blitz him. all hes gonna do is check outta the play and burn your ass.

I dont care that nolans gone. miami defense isnt exactly lighting it up anyway. while the broncos get better by the week

[Northman]

but I believe Dumervil made Nolan shine

Thats a silly statement. It was NOLAN who put Doom in the right place to succeed. The talent was always there.

[Lonestar]

Nolan laid the plans for the 3-4 as we know it now in DEN. For that I am thankful.

Almost anyone besides slowick could have improved our defense. So while it was a turn around, it was NOT a huge deal IMO.

I believe he was a great architect and with his help Josh was able to acquire some veterans to stabilize the new scheme coming in.

My major disappointment with him was not getting a valid NT to anchor the DL as all good 3-4 D's require, instead tagging fields as his GUY.

I think that wink has taken it to another level with the addition of a legit NT and Bannan despite the loss of Doom.

Time will tell whether he can continue and improve and get this 3-4 into the top 5 defenses on both pass and run. Something we have not seen for a LONG time.

[jhildebrand]

Nolan laid the plans for the 3-4 as we know it now in DEN. For that I am thankful.

Almost anyone besides slowick could have improved our defense. So while it was a turn around, it was NOT a huge deal IMO.

I believe he was a great architect and with his help Josh was able to acquire some veterans to stabilize the new scheme coming in.

My major disappointment with him was not getting a valid NT to anchor the DL as all good 3-4 D's require, instead tagging fields as his GUY.

I think that wink has taken it to another level with the addition of a legit NT and Bannan despite the loss of Doom.

Time will tell whether he can continue and improve and get this 3-4 into the top 5 defenses on both pass and run. Something we have not seen for a LONG time.

Most other teams needed 3+ seasons to adjust to the 3-4. TO do it in one season and with a makeshift D line of castoffs and say it isn't a huge deal is off kilter if you ask me.

[arapaho2]

I'll just jump in here not necceasrily is this pointed at you. but this is as far as I have read in teh thread.


Points are up Yard on the ground are DOWN dramatically over last years average.

That can be addressed by at least two things Ayers stepping up and sealing the edge and not allowing any RB past him. and J Williams being an immovable object.

Now there might be more but we have held Manning almost in check for 4 quarters and CJ the best RB in the league to 54 yards on 19 carries IIRC.

Nolan wanted fields, I'm not sure if that was all that Josh would give him, but I got the impression that he thought fields could handle the starting job from the git go. There was very little swapping of NT in preseason or in TC, it was his job period.

There was an error made in thinking Fields could play NY for a full season and not wear down.

Will I lay that on Nolan or Josh? You choose on whom to blame.

IMO we are better this year than last even without Doom, whom the coaching staff saw fit to re-sign in spite of my commentary.:laugh::laugh:

When Doom get back along with Ayers and Maybe an addition in the draft of another bonafide NT, DE and maybe monster MLB we should be damned good.


heres my impression of some:rolleyes: people had fields bcome a star..ahem..." mcd gets all the credit for bringing a unappreciated nt that nobody thought could be legit and makeing him a star!!"

last year we were building a 3-4 from scratch...was Jwall available?...bannon? any solid high profile Nts or 3-4 DE's? we brought in fields who was probably the best NT we could hope to get

fields played solid for the first 12 games...he wore out because of in adequate rotation...so maybe if all of the defensive trouble late was because nolan went against the great defensive mind of mcd and brought in fields...we should also credit fields for being the center piece of a 3-4 defense that prevented the boy wonder from being 4-12 his first season

[GEM]

That's enough. Get on topic.

[arapaho2]

That's enough. Get on topic.

gee gem...when you get all stern and dominate, combined with your av


it kinda brings out the perv in a feller:eek:

[dogfish]

That's enough. Get on topic.

what's the topic again?

oh yea, nolan. . . not that interesting anyway. . . :lol:

[Lonestar]

Most other teams needed 3+ seasons to adjust to the 3-4. TO do it in one season and with a makeshift D line of castoffs and say it isn't a huge deal is off kilter if you ask me.


your correct it does take a few years normally to convert.

But since all but 5 of the 27 (08) defensive players are pretty much out of football now it was not a hard decision to make. nor to convert.

We were so bad getting a huge improvement is not hard to do.

Nolan was a huge part in that conversion, NO one is saying he was not.

what they are saying is do we miss Nolan now or that is how I read it.

I for one do not miss him at all, thankful he was here, but no tears were shed when he left from me.


BTW we have not fully converted over yet we still need alot of players for starters and depth. IMHO

[WARHORSE]

the whole damn team is to blame for that collapse last year including MCD, and any other coach that was here, but MCD already admitted to the public he was to blame in numerous press conferences....so its a moot point.......

Right. Agreed.

And I love that the coach brings the heat to where it belongs: on him.


It is McDaniels scheme that is run here. Not Nolans. Josh brought in what is in New England here. Im sure we are tweaking as we go, and did so last year as well.

So, while we understand he was not totally at fault, just like he is not totally responsible for the turnaround, in the end, he will be the guy who will possibly be fired, or rehired for the performance of this team as a whole.

Nolan is a good coach, and I think under different circumstances he and Josh could have worked together.


McDaniels is learning as hes going in a lot of areas. It hurts our team sometimes.......but I believe in him because our players do.

And I see him busting his butt.

Go Broncos.:salute:

[Lonestar]

Right. Agreed.

And I love that the coach brings the heat to where it belongs: on him.


It is McDaniels scheme that is run here. Not Nolans. Josh brought in what is in New England here. Im sure we are tweaking as we go, and did so last year as well.

So, while we understand he was not totally at fault, just like he is not totally responsible for the turnaround, in the end, he will be the guy who will possibly be fired, or rehired for the performance of this team as a whole.

Nolan is a good coach, and I think under different circumstances he and Josh could have worked together.


McDaniels is learning as hes going in a lot of areas. It hurts our team sometimes.......but I believe in him because our players do.

And I see him busting his butt.

Go Broncos.:salute:

ME I do not think that Nolan is a good LONG term coach . If you go back and look at his record never anywhere for more than 2-3 years. IIRC

Each time having initial success and then tailing off.

IMHO he is a fixer, not the long term answer.

[slim]

It was a combination of things.

Better talent (especially in the secondary), better coaching and fewer turnovers on offense (the defense wasn't given as many short-fields to work with).

[WARHORSE]

I like your enthusiasm and such.

But Bowlen is also the owner that prefers to hire a coach and let him have control of personnel. He did with Shanahan, and he did with a young McDaniels.

So I don't see it quite as you do, but hey.... :salute:


I agree with the statement, but will add that I dont think we have the same thing today that we had in Mike Shanahans time here.

Josh is working with X to a much greater degree than Shanahan worked with anyone. Xs expertise and ingenuity with the contracts has proven invaluable to Bowlen, and to me, ultimately McDaniels as well. We arent being crushed with dead money like we were with Mike here. That has to make a man happy who writes million dollar paychecks.

And at the end of the day, Bowlen will still be here, while Josh may be fired.


Go Broncos.

[Tempus Fugit]

Nolan was JAG coaching, and he was a problem for the head coach. It's good that he's gone, and his stint in Miami will be a short one if he doesn't start doing a much better job over there. With the talent the Dolphins think they have on that team, 23rd in the league in defense is going to be considered unacceptable.

[TXBRONC]

Most other teams needed 3+ seasons to adjust to the 3-4. TO do it in one season and with a makeshift D line of castoffs and say it isn't a huge deal is off kilter if you ask me.

Agreed. The two new defensive starters Bannan and Jamal Williams not long term solutions. Barring injury Bannan has little bring playing window but J. Williams wont be here but one or two seasons more. So yeah the defense isn't set.

[Jagsbch]

Nolan laid the plans for the 3-4 as we know it now in DEN. For that I am thankful.

Say's who? Why did not McDaniels lay the plans and Nolan execute them?:confused:

[WARHORSE]

Say's who? Why did not McDaniels lay the plans and Nolan execute them?:confused:

Yes, according to McDaniels you are correct.

Its his defensive scheme that is implemented here.

[BORDERLINE]

anything was better than having McCree and Manuel back there....never liked them 2...McD upgraded the secondary by bringing in Hill, Dawk , Goodman....and Nolan got them playing at a high level in the beginning of the season...i din't really like the wink hire at first but he's doing a good job...except when he wears those ugly azz shirts on gameday, i'm like go put on a polo or something

[Ravage!!!]

So let me get this straight, since I seem to be a bit confused.

The offense is McD's system, and now the defense is McD's system. Why are we wasting money on DC's at all if McD can do it all? This seems to be that some are either putting too much credit to the HC, OR... the HC truly is micromanaging too much and not allowing the people that are hired to do the job they are hired for. Perhaps thats the main reason Nolan left.

I don't believe taht the one guy can simply run both sides of th ball and micromanage and implement "Schemes" that are "His."

[Jagsbch]

Your confusion is duly noted...

We are not wasting money, how much do you suppose it cost to promote Wink in house to be the DC?

Thing is there are 53 players on a team not including the practice squad, and you need lieutenants to delegate your authority because you can not be coaching both the offense and defense at the same time.

One guy can't run both sides of the ball, that is why you have assistant coaches...

It is the head coaches job to micromanage every aspect of the scheme and allow his assitance to execute that scheme by employing it to the rest of the team.

There should not be one damn thing that happens scheme wise on a team that the head coach is not intimately familiar with. Don't underestimate what Josh McDaniels is capable of, too many critics are finding themselves with their foot in their mouth for doing just that.

[Ravage!!!]

:lol:

Thanks for the breakdown on managing employees. But thats not exactly true, but I know I'm not going to even waste the typing ribbon :lol:

[I Eat Staples]

Our defense isn't even playing as good this year as we did at the start of last year, so I don't get this thread.

[Elevation inc]

So let me get this straight, since I seem to be a bit confused.

The offense is McD's system, and now the defense is McD's system. Why are we wasting money on DC's at all if McD can do it all? This seems to be that some are either putting too much credit to the HC, OR... the HC truly is micromanaging too much and not allowing the people that are hired to do the job they are hired for. Perhaps thats the main reason Nolan left.

I don't believe taht the one guy can simply run both sides of th ball and micromanage and implement "Schemes" that are "His."

actually maybe thats why nolan was let go....MCd realized he just needed a LB coach to tweak what he wanted not a previous HC to come in a run his own scheme, could be the reason for the parting actually.....

I do remember comments about MCd saying he wasnt a fan of some of the things we did last year on D and it wasnt how he wanted thinsg done....

it really could be his ideas all along and now wink is the loyal guy doing what is needed and tweaking where he sees fit.....

who knows its all theories anyways.....Nolan is gone and we have wink who is still performing well as DC with what he has and with no star pass rusher.....

kinda a wash at this point i think

[arapaho2]

i also recall wink stateing that he wasnt changing the Nolan defensive scheme...maybe call some plays differantly...maybe set some guys differantly...but all in all it would still be run off of nolans package

what that says to me is...the nolan defense was great...however mcd needing a dominate head strong DC wasnt

[Bosco]

Nolan deserves a lot of credit for getting the team to quickly adjust to the 3-4.

[Elevation inc]

i also recall wink stateing that he wasnt changing the Nolan defensive scheme...maybe call some plays differantly...maybe set some guys differantly...but all in all it would still be run off of nolans package

what that says to me is...the nolan defense was great...however mcd needing a dominate head strong DC wasnt

hey it could be for all you or I know Nolan was pushing MCd's buttons wanting full defensive control as a prior DC and head coach.....and MCd just wanted to try a different direction, because it was his team an not mike nolans...who knows though, what i just therozied has no proof...its anyones guess why

who knows really what went on between them.....no one but them...i think nolan got us on our way with the 3-4.....wink is tweaking it with some MCD inputs as well as his own...and the defense is on the right track still.....just need to address it this next draft more with some youth..

[Bosco]

So let me get this straight, since I seem to be a bit confused.

The offense is McD's system, and now the defense is McD's system.

It's not so much Josh's defensive scheme as it's his philosophy. As a head coach he's going to dictate the overall direction of everything going on with the team, but he's not going to be in the DC's ear telling him what plays to call.

This is where the problem with Nolan started. He's always run a read and react style defense while Josh wants the aggressive, blitzing style. They tried to make it work and had some success early on but then the wheels came off, so Nolan went down to Miami where he can run his style defense and Josh promoted Martindale, who is a disciple of the Buddy, Rex and Rob Ryan coaching tree.

[Ravage!!!]

It's not so much Josh's defensive scheme as it's his philosophy. As a head coach he's going to dictate the overall direction of everything going on with the team, but he's not going to be in the DC's ear telling him what plays to call.

This is where the problem with Nolan started. He's always run a read and react style defense while Josh wants the aggressive, blitzing style. They tried to make it work and had some success early on but then the wheels came off, so Nolan went down to Miami where he can run his style defense and Josh promoted Martindale, who is a disciple of the Buddy, Rex and Rob Ryan coaching tree.

Ironically enough, the argument on the sidelines was reportedly because Nolan was doing too many run-blitzes.

Having an aggressive 'philosophy' is different than saying he is looking to run the entire defense with his own scheme. Philosophies I can buy. Thats just an overall belief on what they want/like out of their defense.

[arapaho2]

hey it could be for all you or I know Nolan was pushing MCd's buttons wanting full defensive control as a prior DC and head coach.....and MCd just wanted to try a different direction, because it was his team an not mike nolans...who knows though, what i just therozied has no proof...its anyones guess why

who knows really what went on between them.....no one but them...i think nolan got us on our way with the 3-4.....wink is tweaking it with some MCD inputs as well as his own...and the defense is on the right track still.....just need to address it this next draft more with some youth..


head coach or not...nolan spent his entire career coaching defense
mcd spent a year as db's assistant

fix the offense and let nolan run the defense the way he wants, is what a smart young coach should have done..not let his ego dictate his coaching on the side of the ball he has little expirience in

as for the right track?
we are down from the #1 total defense and #1 defnese in scoreing at this point in the season
to the 19th ranked total def and 26th in scoreing defense...

on the verge of becomeing BOB slowick .2

i cant see that as the right track:coffee: sorry

[silkamilkamonico]

head coach or not...nolan spent his entire career coaching defense
mcd spent a year as db's assistant

fix the offense and let nolan run the defense the way he wants, is what a smart young coach should have done..not let his ego dictate his coaching on the side of the ball he has little expirience in

as for the right track?
we are down from the #1 total defense and #1 defnese in scoreing at this point in the season
to the 19th ranked total def and 26th in scoreing defense...

on the verge of becomeing BOB slowick .2

i cant see that as the right track:coffee: sorry

No. Apparently you don't know Bob Slowick's history.

[arapaho2]

No. Apparently you don't know Bob Slowick's history.

i know slowick:rolleyes:

i know we ended up as the 30th ranked defense in scoreing under him...we are already the 26th..not to far off is it

we can say anything about bobslowicks past... all i care about is how suck he was here...under wink and without nolan we are not that far off from being slowicks defense

ou dont have to like it...but it is the truth

[Elevation inc]

i know slowick:rolleyes:

i know we ended up as the 30th ranked defense in scoreing under him...we are already the 26th..not to far off is it

we can say anything about bobslowicks past... all i care about is how suck he was here...under wink and without nolan we are not that far off from being slowicks defense

ou dont have to like it...but it is the truth

lol wow, just wow......thats not even close to truth.....

[Northman]

.we are already the 26th..not to far off is it



We are 26th in scoring defense as opposed to 12th last year so i feel ya there. Big dropoff this year in that.

We are currently 19th in total yds. 16th in pass defense, and 25th in rushing defense which kind of surprised be because i thought we had improved more there but i guess not by much right now.


Now of course, last year we ended up 7th in total yds, 3rd in passing, and 26th in rushing defense under Nolan. Of course this is based off an entire season so we will probably have to wait until it plays out to see how we did compared to last year.

[Bosco]

head coach or not...nolan spent his entire career coaching defense
mcd spent a year as db's assistant

fix the offense and let nolan run the defense the way he wants, is what a smart young coach should have done..not let his ego dictate his coaching on the side of the ball he has little expirience in

Sorry, that's horrible logic. How can you people be so quick to lay the defensive troubles at McDaniels' feet but then get pissed because he was involved in shaping the scheme and gameplans? Seems to me that if that unit's performance is his ultimate responsibility, he should probably make sure it's being run in the way that he envisions, right?

Besides...and as I've said before here repeatedly...it's not like McD was over-ruling Nolan's play calls. Nolan himself said that when Josh originally called him about the DC job that Josh told him he wanted an aggressive style defense and would be involved in the defensive game-planning. Obviously Nolan was cool enough with that to take the job, so why would you complain?

Of course the greatest irony in all this is that what you're suggesting (coach your specialty and leave the other coordinator alone) is exactly what many attribute to Nolan's failure as a HC along with other guys like Capers, Crennel, Marinelli...etc. There's a whole slew of great coordinators (probably more defensive) who failed as the head coach because they either could not or would not get involved with both sides of the ball. Meanwhile, the truly great coaches are exactly the opposite.

[arapaho2]

Sorry, that's horrible logic. How can you people be so quick to lay the defensive troubles at McDaniels' feet but then get pissed because he was involved in shaping the scheme and gameplans? Seems to me that if that unit's performance is his ultimate responsibility, he should probably make sure it's being run in the way that he envisions, right?

Besides...and as I've said before here repeatedly...it's not like McD was over-ruling Nolan's play calls. Nolan himself said that when Josh originally called him about the DC job that Josh told him he wanted an aggressive style defense and would be involved in the defensive game-planning. Obviously Nolan was cool enough with that to take the job, so why would you complain?

Of course the greatest irony in all this is that what you're suggesting (coach your specialty and leave the other coordinator alone) is exactly what many attribute to Nolan's failure as a HC along with other guys like Capers, Crennel, Marinelli...etc. There's a whole slew of great coordinators (probably more defensive) who failed as the head coach because they either could not or would not get involved with both sides of the ball. Meanwhile, the truly great coaches are exactly the opposite.

thats terrible reading

i didnt lay the defensive blame on mcd...i personaly think he had little to do with the rebuilding of the defense...but you guys cant have it both ways now can you

we say nolan designed the defense, called the defense and was responsible for the drastic improvment, AND HIS DEFENSE THAT WENT SOFT...the josh crowd cries foul..and state josh had more to do with the defense than nolan...he brought in his guys...he layed down the defensive plan he wanted...blah blah blah

but when the defense went soft...it had nothing to do with josh demeanding a less agressive defense or josh in general...but all to do with nolan...right?

which is it?

heres a little fact for you

in 09 through the first five games the broncos were 5-0, we also

allowed a mere 43 points under nolan...and scored 99 points

in 2010 the broncos are 2-3...we also

allowed 116 points under wink...and scored 104


so we have scored 5 more points as a team...yet given up a disgusting 73 more points

thats with a supposedly improved dline and a defense called the way little joshy wants

still think nolan had nothing to do with it?

[jhildebrand]

Arapaho does bring up a good point in that the McD supporters, for lack of a better term, have tried to play this both ways.

When the team was 6-0 McD was given all the credit. When they finished 8-8 the blame was certainly spread around.

The same scenario worked itself out with the D. McD was credited for the good and Nolan blamed for the bad.

The bottom line is this year this team is the full imprint of McDaniels. The D is his. The roster is his. The playcalling is his. The run game and scheme is his.

The end result will also be his!

[arapaho2]

Arapaho does bring up a good point in that the McD supporters, for lack of a better term, have tried to play this both ways.

When the team was 6-0 McD was given all the credit. When they finished 8-8 the blame was certainly spread around.

The same scenario worked itself out with the D. McD was credited for the good and Nolan blamed for the bad.

The bottom line is this year this team is the full imprint of McDaniels. The D is his. The roster is his. The playcalling is his. The run game and scheme is his.

The end result will also be his!


the result so far is we have given up 73 more points than we score by week five...that continues we will again be lucky to be a .500 team

[WARHORSE]

thats terrible reading

i didnt lay the defensive blame on mcd...i personaly think he had little to do with the rebuilding of the defense...but you guys cant have it both ways now can you
Nobody can have it both ways. No single person was responsible for any success we had, and no single person was responsible for any failures.


we say nolan designed the defense, called the defense and was responsible for the drastic improvment, AND HIS DEFENSE THAT WENT SOFT...the josh crowd cries foul..and state josh had more to do with the defense than nolan...he brought in his guys...he layed down the defensive plan he wanted...blah blah blah
Nolan did not design the defense.


but when the defense went soft...it had nothing to do with josh demeanding a less agressive defense or josh in general...but all to do with nolan...right?

which is it?

heres a little fact for you

in 09 through the first five games the broncos were 5-0, we also

allowed a mere 43 points under nolan...and scored 99 points

in 2010 the broncos are 2-3...we also

allowed 116 points under wink...and scored 104


so we have scored 5 more points as a team...yet given up a disgusting 73 more points

thats with a supposedly improved dline and a defense called the way little joshy wants

still think nolan had nothing to do with it?

Last years defense was the first after a change of scheme over the first few games. That also had an effect on our opponents cause they didnt know what they were going to see. Also, Dumerville is not playing, and he is an ELITE pass rusher in this league. I would venture to say that even the most uninformed of fans can understand that. Dumervilles presence would affect the entire pass rush ability of those playing.

Once again, lay the blame where it belongs.....across the board.

ULTIMATELY though, the buck stops with McDaniels.

Everybody knows that.:coffee:

[jhildebrand]

Last years defense was the first after a change of scheme over the first few games. That also had an effect on our opponents cause they didnt know what they were going to see. Also, Dumerville is not playing, and he is an ELITE pass rusher in this league. I would venture to say that even the most uninformed of fans can understand that. Dumervilles presence would affect the entire pass rush ability of those playing.

Once again, lay the blame where it belongs.....across the board.

ULTIMATELY though, the buck stops with McDaniels.

Everybody knows that.:coffee:

But we were told that Dumervil was the reason our run D was so bad. So at least we should expect improvement there...right? :confused:

I am just trying to keep up with the ever changing reasons.

[arapaho2]

Last years defense was the first after a change of scheme over the first few games. That also had an effect on our opponents cause they didnt know what they were going to see. Also, Dumerville is not playing, and he is an ELITE pass rusher in this league. I would venture to say that even the most uninformed of fans can understand that. Dumervilles presence would affect the entire pass rush ability of those playing.

Once again, lay the blame where it belongs.....across the board.

ULTIMATELY though, the buck stops with McDaniels.

Everybody knows that.:coffee:

look at the facts

here is well stated views from the josh can do no wrong crowd

1. it was joshes defense...he wanted it...he designed it and gave nolan the chance to run it

2. nolan failed to run it the way josh wanted and left

3. doom is a one trick pony..pass rush specialist..3rd down artist and a weakpoint in rush defense, as well as pass coverage

4. doom didnt win us any games

5. we failed in the season late because of the defense and the horrid offense had no part of that

suddenly its

1.the defense was all nolan...the bad parts only...the good parts were josh

2. we are weaker in defense because we are missing doom (that one trick pony :lol:)


fact is we got worse despite the promise of better talent on the defense with wink running the defensive geniouses scheme (mcdanials)...signifactly worse

[Ravage!!!]

I don't know what the debate is.:confused:

The defense isn't as good this year as it was last. I think there were many that had to have expected that when we saw Nolan leaving. This isn't a shocker.

The difference is, this year we have much better talent on the DL. Its been discussed many times about the departures this last off-season. Not only was Marshall, Sheffler, and Hillis going to hurt, but so was the BIG loss of Nolan.

It was a big loss. I'm pretty shocked that anyone continues to deny that, considering it was the same people that complained about Shanahan "never hiring" a real DC. We do, McD was PRAISED for his hiring of Nolan... but then is quickly justified in getting real of the best DC we've had in a long time so that he can hire a coach that has never been a DC before.

If the defense has gone down, with better talent (and we do have better talent despite Doom not being in the lineup), how is it we can't be honest and admit that not getting along with Nolan and letting him go wasn't such a great move?

At the same time... its been 5 games. Lets wait until at least mid-season to see where we are.

[I Eat Staples]

Our defense is more talented and playing worse. Hm, what could be the reason? Oh, I know! It must be coaching!

Go figure...it honestly doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Anyone who says otherwise is a McD apologist.

[shank]

Our defense is more talented and playing worse. Hm, what could be the reason? Oh, I know! It must be coaching!

Go figure...it honestly doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Anyone who says otherwise is a McD apologist.

the first 6 weeks of last season were a fluke. like others have said, it was mostly that other teams didn't know how to prepare for us because they had no tape. it was also a lot of luck, and people playing above their ability levels...

take the season as a whole, and compare it to what we've done so far this year, and the difference is negligible. yes we are more talented now, and SHOULD be playing better... but we won't know if we have or haven't improved until the season is over.

i was a huge nolan fan, and was uber-pissed to see him go. we owe him bigtime for the turnaround and this system, but i think wink is running it fine.

we are more talented than last year, but last year our talent ******* sucked. talent-wise we are still pretty average on D, and i expect our play to reflect that most of the time.

[Lonestar]

the first 6 weeks of last season were a fluke. like others have said, it was mostly that other teams didn't know how to prepare for us because they had no tape. it was also a lot of luck, and people playing above their ability levels...

take the season as a whole, and compare it to what we've done so far this year, and the difference is negligible. yes we are more talented now, and SHOULD be playing better... but we won't know if we have or haven't improved until the season is over.

i was a huge nolan fan, and was uber-pissed to see him go. we owe him bigtime for the turnaround and this system, but i think wink is running it fine.

we are more talented than last year, but last year our talent ******* sucked. talent-wise we are still pretty average on D, and i expect our play to reflect that most of the time.

Just need to add that our best pass rusher from last year is not playing.

SO while he was not THE end all OLB last year he was an effective DE getting to the QB.


This year we did upgrade the middle of the DL with Williams and in his limited time on the field I believe we are better overall.

With the other injuries it has not helped the bottom line.

so the original question was it Nolan Yes his initial help in the set up of the 3-4 was great but the EOS lay down well that will be debated for ever.

Are we a better team for having him last year overall yes.

Do I miss the end of season melt down last year NO ONE BIT.

Now lets hope that it does not happen again this year.

Whatever happens we need DL help in the off season.

I'm guessing the only reason we did not get it last year was they thought Baker would step up. which obviously did not happen.

Am I glad that Nolan is not here this year yes it was obvious that he did not wish to be here.

[I Eat Staples]

the first 6 weeks of last season were a fluke. like others have said, it was mostly that other teams didn't know how to prepare for us because they had no tape. it was also a lot of luck, and people playing above their ability levels...

I completely agree with this, I said that to a lot of people last year.


take the season as a whole, and compare it to what we've done so far this year, and the difference is negligible. yes we are more talented now, and SHOULD be playing better... but we won't know if we have or haven't improved until the season is over.


I think with the way we let average or below average QBs complete passes against us effortlessly, we're not showing many signs of improvement.


i was a huge nolan fan, and was uber-pissed to see him go. we owe him bigtime for the turnaround and this system, but i think wink is running it fine.


I'm not so sure he's running it fine. Our D has been pretty bad. We should still have Nolan, no reason he's gone other than McD's ego.


we are more talented than last year, but last year our talent ******* sucked. talent-wise we are still pretty average on D, and i expect our play to reflect that most of the time.

Agreed. But Nolan got a lot more out of average or below average players than Wink is so far.

[I Eat Staples]

I'm guessing the only reason we did not get it last year was they thought Baker would step up. which obviously did not happen.

No, the reason is McD sucks at drafting. There's really no other way to explain our last 2 drafts.


Am I glad that Nolan is not here this year yes it was obvious that he did not wish to be here.

That's McD's fault. You can't expect great coaches and players to all of a sudden give in to every little thing the coach wants to please his ego. It goes both ways. Both sides must give a little to make things work, and McD has shown he isn't willing to bend a little for the sake of the team. There's no way McD will put together a superbowl winning team and staff with the attitude he has.

[shank]

I completely agree with this, I said that to a lot of people last year.


I think with the way we let average or below average QBs complete passes against us effortlessly, we're not showing many signs of improvement.

the absolute #1 reason why this is happening is because of injuries to doom, and now ayers. it's the same thing that's been happening since like 05. a great secondary means almost nothing without adequate pass-rushing. wink isn't to blame for injuries.


I'm not so sure he's running it fine. Our D has been pretty bad. We should still have Nolan, no reason he's gone other than McD's ego.
nolan ran this defense absolutely brilliantly for 6 weeks. after that, he ran pretty much what we see out there today, but had the benefit of a better pass rush, but a worse DL. it's a wash at this point IMO.




Agreed. But Nolan got a lot more out of average or below average players than Wink is so far.


again.. he DID, for 6 weeks. once teams had the scheme figured out, out lack of talent showed straight on through. the bright spot of the last 10 weeks of 2009 was doom, and wink doesn't have that benefit.

again, i really really liked nolan... but there is no way to compare his performance as a DC to what wink is doing because of sample-size and because of injuries.

after week 17, then maybe we'll have a better idea of how he compares, but you can't compare wink's first 5 weeks to nolan's fluke of a first 6... you just can't.

[Bosco]

Arapaho does bring up a good point in that the McD supporters, for lack of a better term, have tried to play this both ways.

When the team was 6-0 McD was given all the credit. When they finished 8-8 the blame was certainly spread around.

The same scenario worked itself out with the D. McD was credited for the good and Nolan blamed for the bad.

The bottom line is this year this team is the full imprint of McDaniels. The D is his. The roster is his. The playcalling is his. The run game and scheme is his.

The end result will also be his!

The flaw in that theory is that he's taking arguments that other posters may have made (it's all Josh when it's good, someone else when it's bad) and trying to paint me with that brush.

Take this issue for instance. While I've attributed much of Denver's defense collapse to Nolan's poor play calling down the stretch, I've also pointed out that a serious lack of talent on the D-line and a SILB that wore down also had a big effect on that collapse. That certainly wasn't Nolan's fault, and I've been just as fair with him as I have with anyone else, including Josh.

In the end it's not a "us vs them" issue. The simple reality is that Josh hired a guy to install the 3-4 defense and run it in a way that was out of his comfort zone. They had great success for the first 6 weeks or so until the wheels came off and by then it was pretty clear that the differences in defensive philosophy were going to be an issue, so at the end of the season Nolan left to take a job that more fit his style while Josh hired someone who shared his philosophy. Nothing particularly news worthy there.

[shank]

No, the reason is McD sucks at drafting. There's really no other way to explain our last 2 drafts.


he has indeed made a few mistakes in the first 2 drafts, but he's also picked a lot of good players IMO.

earlier, i was eating arbies and i bit my tongue. i've been chewing for 23 years, and i still managed to bite my tongue! how is that possible?

i bet i bit my tongue a lot the first 2 times i tried it.

[Bosco]

No, the reason is McD sucks at drafting. There's really no other way to explain our last 2 drafts.

You're the guy who from the day you signed up until week 1, was telling everyone how Brandon Lloyd was terrible and didn't even deserve a roster spot, yet now he's one of the best producing receivers in the league, 2nd only to Miles Austin in yards per game.

My point? You have about zero room to be calling out anyone else's talent evaluations, much less the coach's.

That is all.

[Ravage!!!]

You're the guy who from the day you signed up until week 1, was telling everyone how Brandon Lloyd was terrible and didn't even deserve a roster spot, yet now he's one of the best producing receivers in the league, 2nd only to Miles Austin in yards per game.

My point? You have about zero room to be calling out anyone else's talent evaluations, much less the coach's.

That is all.

Same could be said for anyone on this board that compliments the draft picks??? No one here is any more qualified than the next to give their opinion on "talent evaluations." I guess we are not supposed to give opinions on players talent if we haven't been hired by NFL scouting offices?


But giving the opinion that Brandon Lloyd isn't very good, isn't exactly news, either. The guy had been a complete waste in the previous 6 years of his career (especially for how high he was drafted). Its more of a shock that he's contributing than anything more than that.

Not to mention, you completely ignore the fact that there is a level of expectations from those that are actually paid several million a year to DO better than we would. Of course we have room to criticize. These guys have oodles of resources at their disposal to get it right. McD getting it wrong is SUPPOSED to be bigger deal than those that are NOT paid mega dollars, right?

My point? Yeah, if Staples gets the idea that a 6 year vet isn't very good (after establishing himself as not being good in the NFL), then I would think there is much LESS room to criticize his opinion on that than the criticisms for a guy that has a ton of resources and has the job of getting it right when taking Moreno at 12 (or moving up for a CB, or moving up for a blocking TE, or moving up for a QB, or trading away certain players).

[arapaho2]

Just need to add that our best pass rusher from last year is not playing.

SO while he was not THE end all OLB last year he was an effective DE getting to the QB.


This year we did upgrade the middle of the DL with Williams and in his limited time on the field I believe we are better overall.

With the other injuries it has not helped the bottom line.

so the original question was it Nolan Yes his initial help in the set up of the 3-4 was great but the EOS lay down well that will be debated for ever.

Are we a better team for having him last year overall yes.

Do I miss the end of season melt down last year NO ONE BIT.

Now lets hope that it does not happen again this year.

Whatever happens we need DL help in the off season.

I'm guessing the only reason we did not get it last year was they thought Baker would step up. which obviously did not happen.

Am I glad that Nolan is not here this year yes it was obvious that he did not wish to be here.


come on JR..you stated all summer doom should be shipped off as opposed to a big contract...im sure you said his pass rush was a one trick pony sort of thing...right?

suddenly the lack of a pass rush is why we are struggling....why i thought it wasnt so important?:lol:

as for needing dline...yes without a doubt which is why wasting all those picks to get a qb at 25, a 3 year project at best, so rediculous..which is why wasting a 14 overall to get alphonso stupid...why trading 2 3's for quinn to sit on the bench and not use his superior blocking skills to open up the run game..hurts

they hurt cause dline was ,and has been a on going issue

but then the praise was mcd fixed it brilliantly by getting jwall, bannon and green:coffee:

as for not wanting a defense like the last five games of last year

Are you aware that the horrible defense that appalled the josh faithfull and made forcing nolan out ...a neccesity, gave up only 5 more points than the current defense has alread given up

you can sugar coat it all you want..but this defense is headed down a ugly path under wink playing joshes scheme

and yes nolan didnt want to be here....after josh blamed the season on him, refused to let him run his defense the way he thought best...why would he? can you blame him?

[arapaho2]

lol wow, just wow......thats not even close to truth.....


really?...under slowick we were the 30th ranked defense in scores allowed....we are currently sitting at 26th

further?
under slow
we were the
27th in rush d..today we are 25th
under slo we were
31st in sacks..today 31st

this defense may improve..we hope, but you cant be a blind homer and insist it isnt on the verge of epic slowick suckiness right now

hows that not close?:lol:

[arapaho2]

the absolute #1 reason why this is happening is because of injuries to doom, and now ayers. it's the same thing that's been happening since like 05. a great secondary means almost nothing without adequate pass-rushing. wink isn't to blame for injuries.


nolan ran this defense absolutely brilliantly for 6 weeks. after that, he ran pretty much what we see out there today, but had the benefit of a better pass rush, but a worse DL. it's a wash at this point IMO.



again.. he DID, for 6 weeks. once teams had the scheme figured out, out lack of talent showed straight on through. the bright spot of the last 10 weeks of 2009 was doom, and wink doesn't have that benefit.

again, i really really liked nolan... but there is no way to compare his performance as a DC to what wink is doing because of sample-size and because of injuries.

after week 17, then maybe we'll have a better idea of how he compares, but you can't compare wink's first 5 weeks to nolan's fluke of a first 6... you just can't.


dude you cant say nolan only did it for 6 weeks....we ended up the 12th ranked team in def scores allowed...we are already 26th...FYI 26 is worse that 12

the offense inability to score also contributed to that decline..as it probably does this year

[Bosco]

Same could be said for anyone on this board that compliments the draft picks??? No one here is any more qualified than the next to give their opinion on "talent evaluations." I guess we are not supposed to give opinions on players talent if we haven't been hired by NFL scouting offices? Not at all. I simply think if they're going to make their opinions public on this forum then it's perfectly acceptable to question whether that person knows what they are talking about. Staples has been shockingly wrong on this and a couple other issues, so what makes him or anyone else think they can make those kind of statements and not get put under the microscope?

It's nothing personal either. Think of it this way. If you're an electrician and I show up and start telling you that you did a shitty job wiring a house, you'd probably want to know what my qualifications are, right? If it turns out that I'm a high school drop out who can't tell you the difference between AC and DC, you're probably not giving to give much value to what I say.

I know that some people here would like to hold "opinions" as some kind of sacred ground, but just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you know what you're talking about and shouldn't be treated as such when it's clear you don't.


But giving the opinion that Brandon Lloyd isn't very good, isn't exactly news, either. The guy had been a complete waste in the previous 6 years of his career (especially for how high he was drafted). Its more of a shock that he's contributing than anything more than that. But see that isn't exactly correct either. He was a 4th round pick and has two 40+ catch and a 25+ catch season on his resume. He's been pretty disappointing due to his lack of dedication to the game, but to call him a waste is pretty hyperbolic.

Despite that, you can go through my posts here and see that while he has exceeded my expectation, I not only told people he would produce here, but I told them exactly how he and our other receivers would be utilized. I'm not part of an NFL coaching or scouting staff, so obviously that isn't a prerequisite for having a valid opinion.


Not to mention, you completely ignore the fact that there is a level of expectations from those that are actually paid several million a year to DO better than we would. Of course we have room to criticize. These guys have oodles of resources at their disposal to get it right. McD getting it wrong is SUPPOSED to be bigger deal than those that are NOT paid mega dollars, right? And that cuts both ways. Those guys have access to more information than we could ever dream of so while it would be easy for us to throw stones after the fact, we have no idea what they may or may not have seen that led to their decisions.

[shank]

dude you cant say nolan only did it for 6 weeks....we ended up the 12th ranked team in def scores allowed...we are already 26th...FYI 26 is worse that 12

the offense inability to score also contributed to that decline..as it probably does this year

i understand that. that's why i said that no comparison can be made until the end of the season. after the jets, our schedule eases up, and our scoring defense very well could climb up the charts and approach where it was AT THE END of last season.

there is no comparison to be made at this point IMO. you can't compare nolan's first 5 games to winks, and you can't compare wink's first 5 games to nolan's first season.

by the end of the year, i'm guessin that the defense will rank similarly to where it did last season. the talent in the front 7 was improved this year, but injuries are going to hurt our performance a lot.

[Bosco]

dude you cant say nolan only did it for 6 weeks....we ended up the 12th ranked team in def scores allowed...we are already 26th...FYI 26 is worse that 12

And we started out 1st. 1st to 12th is a pretty significant slide over the course of a season.

[arapaho2]

i understand that. that's why i said that no comparison can be made until the end of the season. after the jets, our schedule eases up, and our scoring defense very well could climb up the charts and approach where it was AT THE END of last season.

there is no comparison to be made at this point IMO. you can't compare nolan's first 5 games to winks, and you can't compare wink's first 5 games to nolan's first season.

by the end of the year, i'm guessin that the defense will rank similarly to where it did last season. the talent in the front 7 was improved this year, but injuries are going to hurt our performance a lot.


and thats why im compareing the 09-2010 season by the first five games....im not content to sit and wait for the end of the season...i wanna bitch now ..lol

and yes we can compare because its our team..what i recall was ...

we got rid of nolan because he wouldnt play the defense mcd wanted

we improved the defensive talent

and yet statistically we are falling off the map compared to the broncos nolan coached...it is a concern..a valid concern

we made every excuse there was for last years decline
got rid of a go to wr that was hogging all the balls...rbs were rookie...oline was undersized...nolan sucked ....

now this is mcds team..HIS TEAM IN HIS VISION...and it aint pretty...on offense all yards and little scoreing...on defense we bleed yards and points....we chucked shanny for those reasons remember

[arapaho2]

And we started out 1st. 1st to 12th is a pretty significant slide over the course of a season.

not as significant as 12th to 26th:lol:

[shank]

and thats why im compareing the 09-2010 season by the first five games....im not content to sit and wait for the end of the season...i wanna bitch now ..lol


i understand this, trust me. i'll re-word my statement: we cannot make a valid comparison of the 09 and 2010 defenses until the end of the year.

comparing the first 5 games of both seasons is totally invalid, because we all know that nolan's first 5 games were a beautiful fluke. the same way that his defense fell off as the season progresses, wink's may very well improve as the season progresses, in which case they will meet in the middle by the end of this year... injuries will definitely hamper that, but those are not wink's fault.

[Bosco]

not as significant as 12th to 26th:lol:

Correct, but you have to remember we're also missing our league leading pass rusher, a starting cornerback for the past couple weeks and have a first time NFL defensive coordinator who is going through a learning curve.

I think even you would agree that those circumstances would preclude another early 2009 style performance.

[atwater27]

Correct, but you have to remember we're also missing our league leading pass rusher, a starting cornerback for the past couple weeks and have a first time NFL defensive coordinator who is going through a learning curve.

I think even you would agree that those circumstances would preclude another early 2009 style performance.

Injuries are part of the game. Shanahan had to deal with them and had some really bad injury seasons. Josh must do the same.

[arapaho2]

Correct, but you have to remember we're also missing our league leading pass rusher, a starting cornerback for the past couple weeks and have a first time NFL defensive coordinator who is going through a learning curve.

I think even you would agree that those circumstances would preclude another early 2009 style performance.

and last year we went the whole season without injuries?
besides the aurgument was doom was just a third down guy and little help elsewhere as i recall

and i never thought wink would produce a nolanesk season...i was hopeing for a season ending at least top 12 total defense....

and bos...do you honestly think nolan would have not found a way to pressure the qb without doom?

[shank]

and last year we went the whole season without injuries?
besides the aurgument was doom was just a third down guy and little help elsewhere as i recall
i honestly can't think of any significant defensive injuries from last year. a couple of nagging injuries, but i can't think of a player missing more than a week or 2 last year.


and i never thought wink would produce a nolanesk season...i was hopeing for a season ending at least top 12 total defense....

take a second and think about what you just wrote...


a season ending in at least top 12 total defense would be, BY DEFINITION, better than a "nolanesk" season.


and bos...do you honestly think nolan would have not found a way to pressure the qb without doom?

there were lots of times last season when we struggled to get pressure, even with doom on the field. i remember a lot of failed blitzes, which IIRC, is one of the reasons that McD decided to part ways with nolan.

[Bosco]

and last year we went the whole season without injuries? On defense we were pretty much healthy all season.


besides the aurgument was doom was just a third down guy and little help elsewhere as i recall Not my argument, and not correct either.


and i never thought wink would produce a nolanesk season...i was hopeing for a season ending at least top 12 total defense.... Lots of football left to be played and we've already faced the toughest offenses this year.


and bos...do you honestly think nolan would have not found a way to pressure the qb without doom? At this point? Maybe. He got some decent pressure with those delayed A gap blitzes and few real impressive OLB/DE stunts, but after teams saw what he was doing he never managed to get much pressure that wasn't the result of Dumervil playing like a man possessed.

[Ravage!!!]

Not at all. I simply think if they're going to make their opinions public on this forum then it's perfectly acceptable to question whether that person knows what they are talking about. Staples has been shockingly wrong on this and a couple other issues, so what makes him or anyone else think they can make those kind of statements and not get put under the microscope?

what makes them 'think' they can make those kind of statements? Simple. Observation and opinion. Its never meant to be taken as fact, as the mere word of opinion doesn't have anything to do with fact. I don't have to be qualified to have an opinion. Can you criticize the opinion, sure. BUt that doesn't mean someone can't give their opinion, and they don't have to "think" they have the right to do it.


It's nothing personal either. Think of it this way. If you're an electrician and I show up and start telling you that you did a shitty job wiring a house, you'd probably want to know what my qualifications are, right? If it turns out that I'm a high school drop out who can't tell you the difference between AC and DC, you're probably not giving to give much value to what I say.

Right. But if that same electrician is getting big dollars to wire the house, and has shown MANY times to get things wrong...there is absolutely NO reason to belittle someone for doubting their "skills" again. After all, they are SUPPOSED to get it correct. Thats what they are paid for. Thats what they do. If I give an "opinion" from a complete layman's perspective...that has the expectations of not having merit, as you just pointed out. But the electrician getting it wrong over and over, has consequences. Just because a layman's opinion based on the observations of past performance doesn't fit the events of today, doesn't take away from the validity of their opinion. Especially since I can (or Staples) could go back and point out many people that have watched Lloyd for years and didn't think he was worth a crap.


I know that some people here would like to hold "opinions" as some kind of sacred ground, but just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you know what you're talking about and shouldn't be treated as such when it's clear you don't.
No, Bosco. You don't have to kjnow what you are talking about to have an opinion. What you want to do, is to continue to tell everyone that YOUR opinion is superior. Just read below on your opinion of Lloyd and how you think other's opinion of him is wrong.


But see that isn't exactly correct either. He was a 4th round pick and has two 40+ catch and a 25+ catch season on his resume. He's been pretty disappointing due to his lack of dedication to the game, but to call him a waste is pretty hyperbolic.
Purely your opinion on what is hyperbolic. He's been disappointing.... period. You may wish to believe it was because of dedication, but that doesn't make it a fact. He's been a disappointment in the NFL to many, for 6 seasons now.


Despite that, you can go through my posts here and see that while he has exceeded my expectation, I not only told people he would produce here, but I told them exactly how he and our other receivers would be utilized. I'm not part of an NFL coaching or scouting staff, so obviously that isn't a prerequisite for having a valid opinion.
Yes... Bosco. Every time we turn around you are pointing this out to people. You want to pound your chest on this over and over, and tell everyone how right you are. THus, this gives you the ability to knock others opinion.
I know for a fact we can go back through your posts and point out many mistakes. YOu won't admit they are mistakes, but... nonetheless they were your opinions on how things would go, at the time.


And that cuts both ways. Those guys have access to more information than we could ever dream of so while it would be easy for us to throw stones after the fact, we have no idea what they may or may not have seen that led to their decisions.

Doesn't matter what they would have seen. We aren't getting paid to make those decisions.. THEY are. Thats why the criticisms come with the work.... no matter HOW qualified you believe the detractor is or not. DOesn't matter. We aren't getting paid for those decisions, and just like the electrician, our opinions have no consequences. The coaches decisions do. We absolutely have the right to criticize those decisions and choices, hindsight or not.

[Bosco]

what makes them 'think' they can make those kind of statements? Simple. Observation and opinion. Its never meant to be taken as fact, as the mere word of opinion doesn't have anything to do with fact. I don't have to be qualified to have an opinion. Can you criticize the opinion, sure. BUt that doesn't mean someone can't give their opinion, and they don't have to "think" they have the right to do it. Sure, and if you've constantly been wrong on your own opinions you should probably have the common sense to temper your statements a bit. Of course the greater issue here is people making these extreme statements which are hardly ever correct.


Right. But if that same electrician is getting big dollars to wire the house, and has shown MANY times to get things wrong...there is absolutely NO reason to belittle someone for doubting their "skills" again. After all, they are SUPPOSED to get it correct. Thats what they are paid for. Thats what they do. If I give an "opinion" from a complete layman's perspective...that has the expectations of not having merit, as you just pointed out. But the electrician getting it wrong over and over, has consequences. Just because a layman's opinion based on the observations of past performance doesn't fit the events of today, doesn't take away from the validity of their opinion. Especially since I can (or Staples) could go back and point out many people that have watched Lloyd for years and didn't think he was worth a crap. Fine, but then if that same electrician says "ok junior, go through this wiring and tell me what's wrong and how it should have been done correctly" and gets met with a bunch of stuttering and stammering, what has been proven? That the drop out can throw shit against the wall and maybe something will eventually stick? Maybe, but that still doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.


No, Bosco. You don't have to kjnow what you are talking about to have an opinion. What you want to do, is to continue to tell everyone that YOUR opinion is superior. Just read below on your opinion of Lloyd and how you think other's opinion of him is wrong.

Purely your opinion on what is hyperbolic. He's been disappointing.... period. You may wish to believe it was because of dedication, but that doesn't make it a fact. He's been a disappointment in the NFL to many, for 6 seasons now. Ahh, see here we go making extreme statements again and then trying to move the goal posts. You said he was a "waste" and I don't think anyone out there would point to a guy with 40+ catch seasons on his resume to be a waste, especially for a 4th rounder. Same goes for Staples, who repeatedly wanted Lloyd cut even when he was having a solid preseason.

Now when you're challenged, you're back to calling him a "disappointment" which is correct but FAR from being a waste.


Yes... Bosco. Every time we turn around you are pointing this out to people. You want to pound your chest on this over and over, and tell everyone how right you are. THus, this gives you the ability to knock others opinion.

I know for a fact we can go back through your posts and point out many mistakes. YOu won't admit they are mistakes, but... nonetheless they were your opinions on how things would go, at the time. And you'd be wrong once again. There are times where I am wrong just like anyone else, and when I am I admit it. Case in point, just here recently me and someone (think it was Horsepower) got into a debate regarding how much McDaniels had used fullbacks in his offense. When he challenged me on my statement, I went to verify my facts, found that he was in fact correct and openly acknowledged that.

[spikerman]

Pay me what they're paying McDaniels and hold me responsible for the next draft. I can see what this team needs all the way from Texas and the only knowledge I have of the team comes from the television and the Internet. It's football, it's not rocket science!

[arapaho2]

i honestly can't think of any significant defensive injuries from last year. a couple of nagging injuries, but i can't think of a player missing more than a week or 2 last year.

still injuries are part of the game...should not be an excuse if loseing 7 rbs to IR wasnt allowed before

take a second and think about what you just wrote...


a season ending in at least top 12 total defense would be, BY DEFINITION, better than a "nolanesk" season.

our nolanesk season ended with us at 7th in total d...so hopeing we finish at least in the top 12 is not by definition...better:lol:


there were lots of times last season when we struggled to get pressure, even with doom on the field. i remember a lot of failed blitzes, which IIRC, is one of the reasons that McD decided to part ways with nolan.

we failed to get pressure because if they doubled doom...we had absalutly no one else who could get pressure...the NT,de's were ineffective in collapsing the pocket...and why josh supposedly improved the dline this off season

mcd parted ways with nolan because he was unwilling to let one of the most respected defensive cordinators run his own defense...he wanted a DC to run a defense the way he wanted...and we got wink doing just that...running mcds defense...to bad its a pittiful defense:coffee:

[arapaho2]

On defense we were pretty much healthy all season.

Not my argument, and not correct either.

Lots of football left to be played and we've already faced the toughest offenses this year.

At this point? Maybe. He got some decent pressure with those delayed A gap blitzes and few real impressive OLB/DE stunts, but after teams saw what he was doing he never managed to get much pressure that wasn't the result of Dumervil playing like a man possessed.


when he started to not get pressure, was when it was reported mcd demeanded he tone it down... remember the indy game

all in all when josh let nolan run his own d...he was masterful specially in half time adjustments

[spikerman]

Blaming officials and injuries for the Broncos' problems do not make us look good as a fan base. The officials do a great job, imo, and all teams have injuries.

[TXBRONC]

Blaming officials and injuries for the Broncos' problems do not make us look good as a fan base. The officials do a great job, imo, and all teams have injuries.

So says the guy with a referree as his avatar. :D

Seriously I agree.

[Northman]

So says the guy with a referree as his avatar. :D

Seriously I agree.

I would prefer it if Spike had a avy of Hochuli. He's the Broncos main man. :salute:

[spikerman]

I would prefer it if Spike had a avy of Hochuli. He's the Broncos main man. :salute:

He's my hero and if any of the players or coaches give him any lip he'd just open up the can of whup @**

[TXBRONC]

I would prefer it if Spike had a avy of Hochuli. He's the Broncos main man. :salute:

Hochuli rocks. LOL.

You're right Spike needs to have Hochuli in his avatar.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[spikerman]

Hochuli rocks. LOL.

You're right Spike needs to have Hochuli in his avatar.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Done and done.

[TXBRONC]

Done and done.

Fantastic! :lol:

[WARHORSE]

look at the facts

here is well stated views from the josh can do no wrong crowd

1. it was joshes defense...he wanted it...he designed it and gave nolan the chance to run it

2. nolan failed to run it the way josh wanted and left

3. doom is a one trick pony..pass rush specialist..3rd down artist and a weakpoint in rush defense, as well as pass coverage

4. doom didnt win us any games

5. we failed in the season late because of the defense and the horrid offense had no part of that

suddenly its

1.the defense was all nolan...the bad parts only...the good parts were josh

2. we are weaker in defense because we are missing doom (that one trick pony :lol:)


fact is we got worse despite the promise of better talent on the defense with wink running the defensive geniouses scheme (mcdanials)...signifactly worse



ZzZZzzzzzzz.......

Quote nobody, quote somebody.

Generalization of a very broad discussion makes an easy case.


A never ending point making proposition that is and always will be insufficient.

Any problems with our defense last year, or this year is wholly different, and the problem still lies where it belongs....across the board, with ultimately Josh at the wheel.

[Ravage!!!]

Damn. This thread had died for three whole days.... and now has been risen.

[WARHORSE]

Damn. This thread had died for three whole days.... and now has been risen.



So shall it be written...........so shall it be done.



Let no man......or whoa!man.......resurrect this thread.


Let it die a slow, descending death into the abyss...........:salute: