Kiszla: Hillis hurting McDaniels' IQ

[broncofaninfla]

Kiszla: Hillis hurting McDaniels' IQ

By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Posted: 10/05/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 10/05/2010 09:15:37 AM MDT



http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2010/1004/20101004__20101005_C07_SP05KIS~p1_300.JPG (http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=3327468 ) Peyton Hillis has been a big hit with the Browns this year. The former Broncos running back has rushed for 322 yards and four touchdowns in four games. (Amy Sancetta, The Associated Press)



At the risk of angering coach Josh McDaniels and offending families with small children, we dare to print the two dirtiest words in the Broncos' language:
Peyton Hillis.
So far in 2010, Hillis has gained 322 yards rushing for the Cleveland Browns and deducted 50 points from McDaniels' IQ.
Like Bigfoot, the 240-pound Hillis and his myth grow larger by the hour. Run, Peyton, run. He is the first good reason during the entire recorded history of man that Colorado has ever been envious of Ohio. We would gladly trade Longs Peak for Hillis, even up. Deal?
Most fair-minded Broncomaniacs admit McDaniels might have been correct for trading away Jay Cutler, don't miss Brandon Marshall as much as originally thought and now have trouble remembering what jersey number Alphonso Smith wore during his brief stint in Denver.
The sin of dumping Hillis, how- ever, is unforgivable.
In Cleveland, the peeps have made a folk hero of Hillis, breathlessly mentioning him in the same sentence as tough guys Larry Csonka, Earl Campbell and Chuck Norris. Since joining the Browns, Hillis has buckled his chin strap and run to infinity. Twice.
On a daily basis, when scanning my overflowing inbox for e-mail, two subjects are by far the most prevalent:
1) A generous stranger from a foreign land wants to give me $15 million (in U.S. dollars) and all he requires to process the transaction is access to my bank account.
2) A raging Broncomaniac demands to know if state law would allow a judge to declare McDaniels legally insane for letting Hillis go to the Browns.
Hate to break this to Broncomaniacs, but Hillis is already you. Feeling very much at home in a state that is more blue collar than blue skies, Hillis has told my friend Michael Arace of The Columbus Dispatch newspaper, "When I think of Cleveland, I think of me."
Funny, McDaniels rarely thought of Hillis at all. A year ago, Hillis got 13 carries for 54 yards. In Cleveland's victory against Cincinnati on Sunday, Hillis ran 27 times for 102 yards.
Through four games of this young season, Hillis is the NFL's eighth-ranked rusher for a weak Cleveland team. Knowshon Moreno, who leads the Denver ground game, ranks No. 42.
Of course, it's not all bad news for the Broncos' offense. Denver quarterback Kyle Orton leads the league in passing yardage. Teammate Brandon Lloyd awoke Monday morning trailing only Indianapolis star Reggie Wayne in receiving yardage.
So it appears that contrary to detractors who stubbornly believe McDaniels doesn't know how to draft or dress, the new Broncos coach does know more than a little about how to effectively throw the football.
But for a kid who grew up down the street from the Pro Football Hall of Fame, McDaniels acts as if he fell asleep the day his third-grade class memorized Vince Lombardi's speech on the power sweep. Run to daylight? The Broncos' running attack has fallen in a black hole.
Every time Orton turns and hands the pigskin to Laurence Maroney, there's such a stinking mess of humanity at the line of scrimmage it's an orgy of football incompetence.
"We are complicating the issue right now in the running game," McDaniels said. "I think we have to start to trust that the play is going to be blocked properly and then the runner has to find green grass. We have to eliminate the (defensive) penetration and start stringing together some plays that move the ball and keep the pressure off the passing game."

Dare I say Hillis has surpassed Tim Tebow as the most popular NFL athlete who doesn't play for the Broncos? Would it be foolish to predict at the next home game in Denver there will be season-ticket holders donning Hillis replica jerseys?
With election day in Colorado only four weeks away, gubernatorial candidates John Hickenlooper, Tom Tancredo and Dan Maes had better be glad of one thing.
Hillis isn't on the ballot.

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_16254422

Mark Kiszla: 303-954-1053 or mkiszla@denverpost.com (mkiszla@denverpost.com)

[Lonestar]

well kiz welcome to Joshes doghouse.:salute::salute:

About what I would expect from him usually just a tad better that woody.:tsk:

[arapaho2]

aint really anything in it not true...Hillis by far has ourshined the entire bronco stable....our fans can still be huge richards and declare him stupid...he was dumb!!...cant Block!...but its only a illogical coverup for the mastermind mcd's screwup

HIllis is what alot of us including a great evaluater of rb talent, shanny saw...a hard nosed, big and fast, wont go down with out some major impacts RB...with some of the softest hands you could hope for

too bad mcd let his childish pride override the good of the team:coffee:

[wbmustang]

Lol I didn't even read the whole article. Yes Josh made a mistake by letting Hillis go but if he doesn't think he will work in his system at least he traded him to give him an opportunity to play. Oh well Josh won't be the first or last coach to make a mistake in a trade. One coaches trash is another coaches gold and it is what it is. Also how many fumbles does he have? He is a stud but ball security is big and he blew it with McDaniels by fumbling.

With that being said would I want him on the team still yes. He is very versatile, can tote the rock, catch the rock, and block but I am not going to cry over it. Best of luck to Peyton Hillis and the Denver Broncos this year.

[Northman]

well kiz welcome to Joshes doghouse.:salute::salute:

About what I would expect from him usually just a tad better that woody.:tsk:

Speaking of Woody he actually defended McD and the Broncos on the Around the Horn today in regards to their accusations of cheap shots. While everyone else said that Tenn and Fisher are just playing aggressive Woody said that they are indeed cheap and fined for a reason.

[honz]

aint really anything in it not true...Hillis by far has ourshined the entire bronco stable....our fans can still be huge richards and declare him stupid...he was dumb!!...cant Block!...but its only a illogical coverup for the mastermind mcd's screwup

HIllis is what alot of us including a great evaluater of rb talent, shanny saw...a hard nosed, big and fast, wont go down with out some major impacts RB...with some of the softest hands you could hope for

too bad mcd let his childish pride override the good of the team:coffee:
Hillis was like the 6th RB that got a chance to play that year under Shanny.

[broncofaninfla]

If the running game doesn't improve and Hillis continues to play at the level he is now or better, you can expect this to keep coming up and deservably so.

[BroncoWave]

Like Kiszla would know anything about having a high IQ.

[Lonestar]

Hillis was like the 6th RB that got a chance to play that year under Shanny.

Actually he was the 2 team FB that got used as a RB when there was no one else left.

[broncofaninfla]

Hillis was like the 6th RB that got a chance to play that year under Shanny.

And he made the most of it. He's the last guy who effectively ran the ball for Denver. Until somebody steps up or is brought in and pounds it and turns the running game around, "the Hillis decision" won't die.

[honz]

Danny Woodhead.

[Lonestar]

would really like to see what most of the current HILLIS fans thought about him prior to having him play back in 08. Guessing that most were oblivious to his talent.

IIRC most were asking to sign tater. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[arapaho2]

would really like to see what most of the current HILLIS fans thought about him prior to having him play back in 08. Guessing that most were oblivious to his talent.

IIRC most were asking to sign tater. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh:


if i recall right we had already signed tater and hillis beat him out...most of us hillis fans desired to see hillis get his chance and he did...and showed alot more promise than moreno ever has before tearing his hammy

most os us invisioned a duo of moreno and hillis a 1-2 punch in 09...josh thought some old increpid former pat was better

[honz]

Hillis.

[WARHORSE]

This is newsworthy, and thats why its here.

Hillis has done well, and he was traded away for someone sitting the bench right now.


Kiz is doing his job.


Hillis is doing his job.


Josh is doing his job.


Quinn is doing his job.



The Oline and our RBs are not doing their jobs.



Im glad Hillis has done well, and I hope he does even better. Hes right. He fits in Cleveland, and is in a system that requires him to be handed the ball and pointed in a single direction. He will thrive there.

But hes not a Bronco, so when he comes here.....sorry dude.

[rcsodak]

Hillis was like the 6th RB that got a chance to play that year under Shanny.
Exactly. If the 5 guys in front of him didn't get hurt, who's to say, other than rap, that he would've ever seen the field.
Be happy for PH. One thing that McD has done with the players he's dealt, is send them to teams they wanted to go to. He could have sent them to Oak. :D
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[rcsodak]

Danny Woodhead.
Felloe CSC Eagle! WOOOOOOO! Lol
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[rcsodak]

would really like to see what most of the current HILLIS fans thought about him prior to having him play back in 08. Guessing that most were oblivious to his talent.

IIRC most were asking to sign tater. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh:
I was happy they signed him, jr.....but as a FB to block. I thought he'd make us forget about his predecessor. :-(
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[Denver Native (Carol)]

First off, I loved having Peyton on the Broncos. I realize that Peyton is having a great season so far in Cleveland, and more than likely, because the system there favors his style, more than here. But, let's remember, Cleveland is 1 - 3, which is no fault of Peyton's, but which does indicate that a team is more than one player.

[GEM]

Bejeezus.....could I invite all of you to take a looksie at the town hall thread in this very forum, report back and stop getting personal with each other.

Kthxbai.

[jhildebrand]

And he made the most of it. He's the last guy who effectively ran the ball for Denver. Until somebody steps up or is brought in and pounds it and turns the running game around, "the Hillis decision" won't die.

MAtt Ryan is 14-1 at home in Atlanta. His loss? :confused: To a Peyton Hillis rushing attack Broncos team.

Haters gon hate for the obvious reason :lol:

I said this almost two weeks ago: It will be Hillis' rushing production that shows just who had the low IQ.

The only way it gets better around here is if Denver can start running the ball.

[Ravage!!!]

would really like to see what most of the current HILLIS fans thought about him prior to having him play back in 08. Guessing that most were oblivious to his talent.

IIRC most were asking to sign tater. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Try again. Funny how you've switched your tune now that McD is getting criticisms for trading him away. Seems the more McD gets public media fare for making a dumb trade, the more of a Hillis detractor you become.

Personally, I find it silly, and ignorant of any poster to try and suggest that Hillis "only" got carries after we were down to nothing. THats not true at all. Hillis was used a great deal as FB. He was ESPECIALLY effective on swing routes and screen passes, from day ONE.

When a player is drafted, and practicing at a position like FB, of COURSE the coaches are going to put "RBs" in replacment of RBs. Hillis didn't get the opportunity to start/play as tail-back in practice. He was playing the FB position. But when he DID get in the lineup, he PRODUCED. He showed that he is a monster when running the ball. In his short starting tenure in Denver, he had more 100 yrd games than Moreno has had at all. The difference is, Shanahan didn't know at the time what a good TB that Hillis could be UNTIL he started him, while McD completely ignored what every fan and media head in Dever, knew.

This is the same thing we've seen and what has been discussed in the other forum. To try and DETRACT from the criticisms of a McD mistake, posters want to try and insinuate mistakes made by previous coaches (even when they aren't true) to try and sidetrack the reality.

The reality is, McD made a BIG mistake. Not his first, and won't be his last. Admit it, and quit trying so hard to try and mask it.

[jhildebrand]

Exactly. If the 5 guys in front of him didn't get hurt, who's to say, other than rap, that he would've ever seen the field.
Be happy for PH. One thing that McD has done with the players he's dealt, is send them to teams they wanted to go to. He could have sent them to Oak. :D
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Well the fallacy here is Hillis saw the field in week 1 on Monday night against the Raiders before a single back went down.

Hillis saw time at FB, where he was expected to play, before the RB's started dropping like flies.

Furthermore, Hillis learned two positions and thrived in both. Had Shanahan remained coach it would have been clear that he would have started Hillis the following season. McDaniels had a leg up coming here KNOWING what Hillis could do and was capable of and INSISTED on trotting out LaMont Jordan. Anybody, Lombardi, Shula, Holmgren, Parcells, Shanahan, or McDaniels should be roundly criticised for that!

[arapaho2]

Exactly. If the 5 guys in front of him didn't get hurt, who's to say, other than rap, that he would've ever seen the field.
Be happy for PH. One thing that McD has done with the players he's dealt, is send them to teams they wanted to go to. He could have sent them to Oak. :D
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dude!! he was a rookie fullback...he wasnt expacted to be the starting tailback...but when he was...he was a solid

[jhildebrand]

Any writer who posts praise of McD is great but the moment they question something, more than 50% of the people on these forums either no longer like the writer or they know more than them.

The conclusion to this story is the HILLIS move was a MAJOR MISTAKE by McDaniels that is now INDEFENSIBLE.

[rcsodak]

Bejeezus.....could I invite all of you to take a looksie at the town hall thread in this very forum, report back and stop getting personal with each other.

Kthxbai.
BOOYAH!
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[arapaho2]

Any writer who posts praise of McD is great but the moment they question something, more than 50% of the people on these forums either no longer like the writer or they know more than them.

The conclusion to this story is the HILLIS move was a MAJOR MISTAKE by McDaniels that is now INDEFENSIBLE.


but but but hillis is stupid:confused:

[jhildebrand]

but but but hillis is stupid:confused:

I sure would love me some stupid! I guess stupid is as stupid does because it looks a lot dumber to have traded that away only to have to answer it weekly. :lol:

Somewhere Hillis is bustin a gut.

[Ravage!!!]

He was a player I had high hopes for in Denver the day we drafted him. I'm glad he's finally getting the success and appreciation from a fan base that sees what they have, instead of here where he wasn't.

[rcsodak]

Well the fallacy here is Hillis saw the field in week 1 on Monday night against the Raiders before a single back went down.
Hillis saw time at FB, where he was expected to play, before the RB's started dropping like fliesFurthermore, Hillis learned two positions and thrived in both. Had Shanahan remained coach it would have been clear that he would have started Hillis the following season. McDaniels had a leg up coming here KNOWING what Hillis could do and was capable of and INSISTED on trotting out LaMont Jordan. Anybody, Lombardi, Shula, Holmgren, Parcells, Shanahan, or McDaniels should be roundly criticised for that!
If shanny was SO high on him, why, preytell, didn't he try to acquire him? He took his position coach, afterall. WHO BETTER knows what PH was than those two?
I started a thread about him before the draft. I was high on him and wanted to see him get a chance last year. But when he WAS in the game, he was stuffed, fumbled and/or dropped passes.
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[jhildebrand]

If shanny was SO high on him, why, preytell, didn't he try to acquire him? He took his position coach, afterall. WHO BETTER knows what PH was than those two?
I started a thread about him before the draft. I was high on him and wanted to see him get a chance last year. But when he WAS in the game, he was stuffed, fumbled and/or dropped passes.
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Chris Cooley :lol:

Ryan Torain :lol:

Also, Washington wasn't giving up a former model er 1st round QB :lol: It isn't as if we simply cut Hillis. Had we, I am quite certain he would end up in Washington anyway!


But when he WAS in the game, he was stuffed, fumbled and/or dropped passes.


There's that double standard again! We tolerated Moreno's consecutive games fumbles but not Hillis'? :confused: When Moreno had a subpar game 1 this season the excuses were he is coming back from a boo boo. Yet Hillis is coming back from what was described as a gruesome and DEVASTATING injury but he didn't get any slack in that regard.

I will say it again, the Hillis trade has officially become indefensible.

[Northman]

At the end of the day the Hillis move was a bad one. For anyone who says he didnt fit the system, etc its just incorrect. Anyone saying he is stupid is incorrect. NE has a young back who weighs less and is a downhill runner so im just not buying into that theory that Hillis couldnt work in this system. For whatever reason Hillis and McD couldnt get along and he was traded. The guy is gone and not much we can do about it but it was a mistake to trade him away when we have no one on the roster to perform what he is meant too.

[rcsodak]

Any writer who posts praise of McD is great but the moment they question something, more than 50% of the people on these forums either no longer like the writer or they know more than them.

The conclusion to this story is the HILLIS move was a MAJOR MISTAKE by McDaniels that is now INDEFENSIBLE.
Did you agree with McD that Orton would make leaps n bounds this year? That they woould be leading the league in passing? That Lloyd would be 5yds from leading in yards? That Wink could have his D hold C2KJ to 50+ yds and <3ypc and wiithout a 10yd run since last year? That BM would/could be replaced so easily and for the betterment of the offense? Just askin', cuz some of us can actually see the forest thru the trees. ;-)
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[Tned]

This is newsworthy, and thats why its here.

Hillis has done well, and he was traded away for someone sitting the bench right now.


Kiz is doing his job.


Hillis is doing his job.


Josh is doing his job.


Quinn is doing his job.



The Oline and our RBs are not doing their jobs.



Im glad Hillis has done well, and I hope he does even better. Hes right. He fits in Cleveland, and is in a system that requires him to be handed the ball and pointed in a single direction. He will thrive there.

But hes not a Bronco, so when he comes here.....sorry dude.

I don't disagree with much in this post except the highlighted point. I suggest you watch some Cleveland games or highlights this year. Hilis is not a Jerome Bettis/Mike Alstot get the ball and plow forward runner. He normally is a one cut and go type runner, but like on his final run in Cleveland, when the run up the middle wasn't there, he bounced it outside.

Against Cincy, I saw at least one toss play (remember the toss plays we used to run with TD?) where he ran wide. He is not the bull running downhill that some portray him as.

[rcsodak]

Chris Cooley :lol:

Ryan Torain :lol:

Also, Washington wasn't giving up a former model er 1st round QB :lol: It isn't as if we simply cut Hillis. Had we, I am quite certain he would end up in Washington anyway!



There's that double standard again! We tolerated Moreno's consecutive games fumbles but not Hillis'? :confused: When Moreno had a subpar game 1 this season the excuses were he is coming back from a boo boo. Yet Hillis is coming back from what was described as a gruesome and DEVASTATING injury but he didn't get any slack in that regard.

I will say it again, the Hillis trade has officially become indefensible.
ok. So you just proclaimed Torrain better than PH. Shanny thought he had more to offer, evidently. Shanny has NEVER been afraid to trade for a "better" player, remember. But instead of a young 'stud', he chose to go with has-beens; ALL which he has cut, IIRC. Not sure what your qb comment had to do with PH, though.
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[Ravage!!!]

ok. So you just proclaimed Torrain better than PH. Shanny thought he had more to offer, evidently. Shanny has NEVER been afraid to trade for a "better" player, remember. But instead of a young 'stud', he chose to go with has-beens; ALL which he has cut, IIRC. Not sure what your qb comment had to do with PH, though.
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Simple. We traded with Cleveland because in return, they gave US a former 1st round QB that ran Weis' system in college. Did Washington have that to offer? Seems we specifically picked Cleveland to trade for Quinn and not just randomly taking any team that raised their hand. Shanahan didn't "pick" Torain over Hillis. Shanahan had stated on a few occasions that Hillis had the best hands on the team.

Its pretty foolish to try and make it sound that the trading of Hillis is somehow a "lesser" mistake by TRYING to make it sound as if Shanahan didn't trade away a 1st round QB for him. Thats purely trying to deflect criticisms from McD when its pretty clear that the trade was a mistake. Why defend it? Is it purely a need to defend EVERY move he makes, or is it because you just hate to allow a criticism go without acknowledging that McD can make mistakes?

Hillis was a beast when here. He's a beast in Cleveland. Right now, our best RB can be described as a cream-puff.

[Nomad]

At the end of the day the Hillis move was a bad one. For anyone who says he didnt fit the system, etc its just incorrect. Anyone saying he is stupid is incorrect. NE has a young back who weighs less and is a downhill runner so im just not buying into that theory that Hillis couldnt work in this system. For whatever reason Hillis and McD couldnt get along and he was traded. The guy is gone and not much we can do about it but it was a mistake to trade him away when we have no one on the roster to perform what he is meant too.

Great post North!!

I'm glad he doesn't play for Arkansas anymore!!:D

[jhildebrand]

ok. So you just proclaimed Torrain better than PH. Shanny thought he had more to offer, evidently. Shanny has NEVER been afraid to trade for a "better" player, remember. But instead of a young 'stud', he chose to go with has-beens; ALL which he has cut, IIRC. Not sure what your qb comment had to do with PH, though.
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Wow! I don't know where to begin with this one. Let's start it off like this:


ok. So you just proclaimed Torrain better than PH.

Where on earth did I state that? :confused: Please be specific and quote my post. I'll give you a clue: I never stated anything along those lines.

Furthermore, I would think even you could discern the difference between picking up a former player off the street and trading for one. :rolleyes:



ALL which he has cut, IIRC

Portis was cut? Torain was cut? They were both there for the duration of camp. LJ got cut. Wow. Big deal.



Not sure what your qb comment had to do with PH, though.

I guess I have to spell it out for you entirely!

Mar 14, 2010: Broncos trade Hillis and 6th round pick to Browns for Brady Quinn.

[jhildebrand]

Simple. We traded with Cleveland because in return, they gave US a former 1st round QB that ran Weis' system in college.

The same QB McDaniels coveted the year he ended up with Orton. That may be McDaniels greatest stoke of luck so far based on Quinn's preseason performance!

[rcsodak]

Simple. We traded with Cleveland because in return, they gave US a former 1st round QB that ran Weis' system in college. Did Washington have that to offer? Seems we specifically picked Cleveland to trade for Quinn and not just randomly taking any team that raised their hand. Shanahan didn't "pick" Torain over Hillis. Shanahan had stated on a few occasions that Hillis had the best hands on the team. Its pretty foolish to try and make it sound that the trading of Hillis is somehow a "lesser" mistake by TRYING to make it sound as if Shanahan didn't trade away a 1st round QB for him. Thats purely trying to deflect criticisms from McD when its pretty clear that the trade was a mistake. Why defend it? Is it purely a need to defend EVERY move he makes, or is it because you just hate to allow a criticism go without acknowledging that McD can make mistakes?
Again a reference to a qb? Why? You don't know _: would do any better in denver than what is there. Pure speculation.
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[jhildebrand]

Again a reference to a qb? Why? You don't know _: would do any better in denver than what is there. Pure speculation.
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There is no speculation. McD made it clear he wanted Quinn. He made it clear he want Quinn the year before. Where is the speculation? :confused:

Had he truly wanted JC and Washington was going to shop JC, then I am sure Shanahan would have worked the deal.

At the end of the day McDaniels wanted Quinn.

[Ravage!!!]

Again a reference to a qb? Why? You don't know _: would do any better in denver than what is there. Pure speculation.
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What? A 'reference' to a QB? :confused:

You do realize that Hillis was traded for Brady Quinn,right? The same Brady Quinn that is on the team, right now? How is it that I"m speculating on anything? :confused:

We TRADED Hillis for Quinn. We specifically traded Hillis and a 6th, for Quinn. Do you think that we just raised our hands and just happened to get a trade offer for Quinn? I don't understand what you are saying here.

You asked what jhil was talking about when he mentioned a QB. I'm telling you. The reason the QB was mentioned, and a PART of the discussion is because McD was specifically trading FOR Quinn. A player that Washington didn't have. Cleveland had made it clear that he (Quinn) was available for trade. Then we traded Hillis and a 6th, for him. Washington was never in the running, and didn't have a 1st round QB to trade for Hillis. :lol:

I don't see how this is hard to understand, but I'm trying my best to make it clear. I don't however, understand what you are asking or what you are confused about.

[Day1BroncoFan]

The Hillis trade pissed me off... and for Quinn. :rolleyes:

Since he's gone, I'm over it now. It was a mistake as far as I'm concerned so far.

[Shazam!]

I dont care who Denver has back there. If the OLine struggles to break open for it's Backs, they wont be productive.

Denver has more problems in its run game to think Hillis would magically have cured the ills.

[Northman]

I dont care who Denver has back there. If the OLine struggles to break open for it's Backs, they wont be productive.

Denver has more problems in its run game to think Hillis would magically have cured the ills.


The Oline is just a small part of the problem. They are able to create lanes at times but the problem is our current backs dance in the backfield, run east to west, and arent downhill runners. To say that Hillis couldnt help from the one yard line is naive at this point.

[jhildebrand]

I dont care who Denver has back there. If the OLine struggles to break open for it's Backs, they wont be productive.

Denver has more problems in its run game to think Hillis would magically have cured the ills.

But I don't see too many contending Hillis would be magically curing our ills. I do see plenty of people who do think he would get the 1 yard TD that Maroney failed three times to get. I do think he would have picked up the other short yard situations as well.

Then again...when you think about it, Cle doesn't have a great O Line. They have an old Delhomme and now Seneca that teams don't fear and Hillis still shredded the Ravens and the Bengals. I think it is safe to be of the opinion that Hillis would look as good here as he does in Cleveland, if not better, because we have a better QB and WR's than the Browns.

[honz]

Hard to say who is more dumber...Kiszla or Hillis.

[Bosco]

well kiz welcome to Joshes doghouse.:salute::salute:

About what I would expect from him usually just a tad better that woody.:tsk:

I was wondering how long it would take Kiszla to bring out another shit slinging piece. He's a moron too. I'll never forget his "Super Success in 10 Big Moves" article. THAT was a real knee slapper.

[Lonestar]

Try again. Funny how you've switched your tune now that McD is getting criticisms for trading him away. Seems the more McD gets public media fare for making a dumb trade, the more of a Hillis detractor you become.

Personally, I find it silly, and ignorant of any poster to try and suggest that Hillis "only" got carries after we were down to nothing. THats not true at all. Hillis was used a great deal as FB. He was ESPECIALLY effective on swing routes and screen passes, from day ONE.

When a player is drafted, and practicing at a position like FB, of COURSE the coaches are going to put "RBs" in replacment of RBs. Hillis didn't get the opportunity to start/play as tail-back in practice. He was playing the FB position. But when he DID get in the lineup, he PRODUCED. He showed that he is a monster when running the ball. In his short starting tenure in Denver, he had more 100 yrd games than Moreno has had at all. The difference is, Shanahan didn't know at the time what a good TB that Hillis could be UNTIL he started him, while McD completely ignored what every fan and media head in Dever, knew.

This is the same thing we've seen and what has been discussed in the other forum. To try and DETRACT from the criticisms of a McD mistake, posters want to try and insinuate mistakes made by previous coaches (even when they aren't true) to try and sidetrack the reality.

The reality is, McD made a BIG mistake. Not his first, and won't be his last. Admit it, and quit trying so hard to try and mask it.


AS you said Try again. I have NEVER been a Hillis detractor. Here are the actual stats for that season.


egular Season Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 0 3 14 4.7 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
5 10/05 TB W 16-13 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
6 10/12 JAC L 17-24 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
7 10/20 @ NE L 7-41 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
8 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
9 11/02 MIA L 17-26 1 1 -- -- -- -- -- 7 116 16.6 47 1 -- --
10 11/06 @ CLE W 34-30 1 0 8 24 3.0 10 0 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
11 11/16 @ ATL W 24-20 1 1 10 44 4.4 12 2 3 26 8.7 14 0 -- --
12 11/23 OAK L 10-31 1 1 17 74 4.4 13 1 2 22 11.0 16 0 -- --
13 11/30 @ NYJ W 34-17 1 1 22 129 5.9 19 1 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
14 12/07 KC W 24-17 1 1 8 58 7.3 18T 1 1 11 11.0 11 0 -- --

http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008

As you can plainly see games 1-10 he had two starts and NO STATS in any of those games but 1 ,9 and 10. He was inactive for game 5.

He had a grand total of 8 receptions and 8 rushes, in all of those games.
3 rushes and 1 catch in game one,
7 catches no carries in game 9 and
8 carries no catches in game 10.

For the most part he was on the bench, he may have been in IF larsen was winded but rarely blocked for anyone IF larsen was available.

You may not have known he was one of my adoptees and I kept a close watch out for him.

You are correct about him not getting any TB touches because for the most part he was second string FB.

Rav, I liked the kid a lot and thought he was a comer. Fought with a lot of folks that thought the TB could only be 210 pound scat back.

But he dissappointed me in NOT getting ont eh fiedl at all for teh most part while Larsen stole his thunder.

About game ten, ONLY after the other RBs went on IR was he given a chance to show what he could do and for the most was a fan favorites. There were still some folks that did not get this kid was a 250# scat back that could get yards.

I realized that you were mainly on mania during this time frame so I can understand that you may not have seen my posts during that time. SO I thought I better set you straight.

So if you want to look at any of my Hillis posts about98% of them are supportting him. I did say a couple of times That It must have been (as reported) that the only logical reason he did not make it here this year was not being able to deal with that constantly changing playbook. Other than that he must have been caught with his hands on mikes and Joshes wives ass.

Because IMHO he was a hell of a bruiser and had great hands. I defy you to find any posts that say else wise.

[Lonestar]

The Oline is just a small part of the problem. They are able to create lanes at times but the problem is our current backs dance in the backfield, run east to west, and arent downhill runners. To say that Hillis couldnt help from the one yard line is naive at this point.

I have to disagree about him helping..

If there no hole and frankly I did not see any on the RED zone in the games I saw as much as I like the kid I'm not all that sure he would have made a difference.

In fact last year I remember Josh say on one of his presser lasts hillis would not have made a difference because there were no holes to go through.

Might have gotten in Who knows for sure. But I have indeed seen him get stopped at least once on a 3rd and short near mid field it may have even been a 4th and short.

[Tned]

Hard to say who is more dumber...Kiszla or Hillis.

I see someone's campaigning to wrestle away Jr's master baiter awards in the next BroncosForums award voting.

[silkamilkamonico]

Most fair-minded Broncomaniacs admit McDaniels might have been correct for trading away Jay Cutler, don't miss Brandon Marshall as much as originally thought and now have trouble remembering what jersey number Alphonso Smith wore during his brief stint in Denver.

Wow. Kizla really reached with where he wanted to go for this one. I can't remember history, but it looks like he had to swallow 2 crows to get to Peyton Hillis. He must be pissed.

[spikerman]

I have to disagree about him helping..

If there no hole and frankly I did not see any on the RED zone in the games I saw as much as I like the kid I'm not all that sure he would have made a difference.

In fact last year I remember Josh say on one of his presser lasts hillis would not have made a difference because there were no holes to go through.

Might have gotten in Who knows for sure. But I have indeed seen him get stopped at least once on a 3rd and short near mid field it may have even been a 4th and short.

I don't know Jr, those averages of Hillis you posted would look pretty good right now. Either he is better than the running backs currently playing for the Broncos or the line was better when he was running behind it.

Also, while the holes might not be there I seem to remember a play a couple of years ago where he was caught in the backfield on a 4th down play. He dragged 3 or 4 players and got the first down. I don't remember all of the specifics so if anybody else does, please remind me.

I think a lot of short yardage running comes down to "want to". Hillis seems to have plenty of that. I'm not so sure the current crop of Denver backs has as much as he does.

Either way, hes' gone. Denver needs to either figure out how to get some production from the running game or hire a lawyer to update Orton's will.

[dogfish]

would really like to see what most of the current HILLIS fans thought about him prior to having him play back in 08.

here ya go (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27775). . . :salute:

[jhildebrand]

Well...playing Baltimore in Baltimore 2 weeks after Hillis has should make it real easy to discern just how much better Hillis is than anything we have here!

[dogfish]

okay, having now read the entire thread-- along with most of the rest of the hillis and alphonso smith discussion around here-- i just have to ask. . .

would it cause some of you actual, physical pain to

JUST

ADMIT

MCDANIELS

MADE

A MISTAKE??


no spin, no rationalizing, no lame excuses. . . wouldn't it feel good? come on, say it with me-- "he made a mistake!" seriously, no one from the broncos organization is going to come and take your fan card, and it doesn't even make you a bad person. . . honesty and acceptance are good things, truly they are. . .

[GEM]

McDaniels screwed the pooch on this one. I still believe in a lot of his other choices, but on this topic, he screwed the pooch.

There, ya happy dog? :D

[silkamilkamonico]

JUST

ADMIT

MCDANIELS

MADE

A MISTAKE??


no spin, no rationalizing, no lame excuses. . . wouldn't it feel good? come on, say it with me-- "he made a mistake!" seriously, no one from the broncos organization is going to come and take your fan card, and it doesn't even make you a bad person. . . honesty and acceptance are good things, truly they are. . .

McDaniels made a mistake.

Can people now actually admit that mcDaniels was right all along about Cutler? And right all along about Marshall? Which were both more heated, and more talked about decisions than Peyton Hillis.

[dogfish]

McDaniels screwed the pooch on this one. I still believe in a lot of his other choices, but on this topic, he screwed the pooch.

There, ya happy dog? :D

sure. . . :D


wasn't so tough, right? i'm willing to bet a large sum of money that you didn't vomit blood and death onto your keyboard immediately after typing that. . .

i said a week ago that i'm happy with the overall direction of the franchise, and i am. . . you don't have to try to make josh appear infalliable to like the guy-- it's a waste of time anyway. . . i guess i just don't understand the motivation to defend his interwebs honor to the death. . .

[robert ethan]

McDaniels made a mistake.

Can people now actually admit that mcDaniels was right all along about Cutler? And right all along about Marshall? Which were both more heated, and more talked about decisions than Peyton Hillis.
Well, despite the debacle on Sunday, the Bears still have a better record than the Broncos, and Cutler still has a better passer rating than Orton. Brandon Marshall has more catches than any Bronco receiver this year and is on pace for over 100 for the season. With Chad Henne throwing to him. I can't see any clear cut verdict about whether Josh was "right all along" about the two. They seem to be performing as expected, and Tony Scheffler is on pace to catch 80 passes this season in Detroit.

[silkamilkamonico]

Well, despite the debacle on Sunday, the Bears still have a better record than the Broncos, and Cutler still has a better passer rating than Orton. Brandon Marshall has more catches than any Bronco receiver this year and is on pace for over 100 for the season. With Chad Henne throwing to him. I can't see any clear cut verdict about whether Josh was "right all along" about the two. They seem to be performing as expected, and Tony Scheffler is on pace to catch 80 passes this season in Detroit.

Terrible argument. We are getting a better performance out of our QB now than with Cutler. We are also getting a better performance out of all our WR's, collectively, than we did when Marshall is here, even if you add Scheffler into the argument.

Josh was just as right about those 2 as he was wrong about Hillis. Can people just please admit that already. It doesn't make you a bad person, really..

[Tned]

here ya go (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27775). . . :salute:

Here you go part II:

Here's some of his runs (and a screen pass) through the first quarter and a half against Cincy.

ylq6veqfr_M

[Lonestar]

I don't know Jr, those averages of Hillis you posted would look pretty good right now. Either he is better than the running backs currently playing for the Broncos or the line was better when he was running behind it.

Also, while the holes might not be there I seem to remember a play a couple of years ago where he was caught in the backfield on a 4th down play. He dragged 3 or 4 players and got the first down. I don't remember all of the specifics so if anybody else does, please remind me.

I think a lot of short yardage running comes down to "want to". Hillis seems to have plenty of that. I'm not so sure the current crop of Denver backs has as much as he does.

Either way, hes' gone. Denver needs to either figure out how to get some production from the running game or hire a lawyer to update Orton's will.

I remember that in some of the games he would get stuffed but a few plays later he would get into the backfield and put the hurt on DBs in one game he put three of them on the sidelines for awhile in the game.

I liked the kid and he did have an OL that IIRC did not have any player miss any game that year.

IIRC jay had a pretty fair year also.

Yes it is about want to, but there also has to be somewhere to want to TO.

IIRC CLE OL has been built to run behind. I could be wrong there.

- RT -

79 T. Pashos 6'6 325

RG -

77 F. Womack 6'4 328


- C -

55 A. Mack 6'4 311

- LG -

65 E. Steinbach 6'6 295


- LT -

73 J. Thomas 6'6 320


thomas being one of the premier OT in the league IIRC

Hey I'm happy for Hillis as I have always thought he was great kid.

[NightTrainLayne]

here ya go (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27775). . . :salute:

Wow. Sometimes your own words can really come back and slap you in the face. :D


Hear, hear! I'll take Hillis' brand of 4-5 yard bruising run without much of a "homerun" threat, over a back with that "homerun" ability, but no tough yards. Hillis' brand of running is much more effective over the whole game. Selvin should be getting some tips from Tatum on post-NFL employment.

[Lonestar]

here ya go (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27775). . . :salute:

View Poll Results: Is Peyton Hillis our starting tailback beyond this year?

Yes. He's proven that he's a legit option as a long-term starter. 9 10.98%
Yes. H'es good enough, and we have more urgent needs elsewhere. 18 21.95%
Possibly. I think he fits best as the top option in a RBBC. 9 10.98%
Maybe, but we need a strong complimentary back. 14 17.07%
At least until we find someone else. 7 8.54%
I'd rather draft a blue chip prospect and keep Hillis at fullback for the long term. 18 21.95%
I'm not convinced. 2 2.44%
No. I don't see him as a viable long-term starter at tailback. 5 6.10%

so If I'm reading this correctly about 11% thought he was legit. without resevation

with 56.1% thought maybe or no chance in hell

FWIW here is a list.
Yes. He's proven that he's a legit option as a long-term starter.
56crash, broncogirl7, Foochacho, GEM, Gimpygod, Hobe, Jrwiz, Magnificent Seven, Superchop 7
9 10.98%
Yes. H'es good enough, and we have more urgent needs elsewhere.
BANJOPICKER1, Broncogator, BroncoTech, champbronc2, dogfish, Dreadnought, gobroncsnv, God Father, Hawgdriver, Mike, Nomad, SeeingRed, shawshank24, sneakers, soonerjh, Thnikkaman, TON80DB, Ziggy
18 21.95

Possibly. I think he fits best as the top option in a RBBC.
broncobryce, chanesaw, DenBronx, Greatspirits, gregbroncs, honz, Italianmobstr7, keithbishop, LRtagger
9 10.98%
Maybe, but we need a strong complimentary back.
BaileyTheBest, broncofaninfla, DenverBronkHoes, fcspikeit, G_Money, hookemhess, LordTrychon, LoyalSoldier, Sharkie, Timmy!, topscribe, weazel, xzn, yardog
14 17.07%
At least until we find someone else.
bcbronc, Dean, eessydo, frauschieze, Link, Medford Bronco, studbucket
7 8.54%
I'd rather draft a blue chip prospect and keep Hillis at fullback for the long term.
BigDaddyBronco, bronconut, CoachChaz, D1g1tal j1m, hamrob, horsesense, JKcatch724, Nature Boy, Northman, orangenblue420, OrangeStar7, Requiem / The Dagda, ronmahony, Skinny, Slick, Traveler, turftoad, UnderArmour
18 21.95%
I'm not convinced.
Day1BroncoFan, Fan in Exile
2 2.44%
No. I don't see him as a viable long-term starter at tailback.
cswil, elsid13, MileHighWrath, NameUsedBefore, SM19 5 6.10%

Thanks for digging this up.

[Northman]

He would still be a great fullback in the Howard Griffith mold. I believed it then and believe it now. Oh well, such is life. We poo poo'd that trade.

[Bosco]

okay, having now read the entire thread-- along with most of the rest of the hillis and alphonso smith discussion around here-- i just have to ask. . .

would it cause some of you actual, physical pain to

JUST

ADMIT

MCDANIELS

MADE

A MISTAKE??


no spin, no rationalizing, no lame excuses. . . wouldn't it feel good? come on, say it with me-- "he made a mistake!" seriously, no one from the broncos organization is going to come and take your fan card, and it doesn't even make you a bad person. . . honesty and acceptance are good things, truly they are. . .

Except that for it to be a mistake, you'd have to assume that the results would have been the same here in Denver. That's unlikely at best, and impossible to prove either way.

Much like the case was with Alphonso Smith, in the end it's probably more of a mutually beneficial move.

[dogfish]

Except that for it to be a mistake, you'd have to assume that the results would have been the same here in Denver. That's unlikely at best, and impossible to prove either way.

Much like the case was with Alphonso Smith, in the end it's probably more of a mutually beneficial move.

say it with me, man. . . "he made a mistake". . .


:laugh:

[Elevation inc]

If the running game doesn't improve and Hillis continues to play at the level he is now or better, you can expect this to keep coming up and deservably so.

QFT



its very simple folks coaches make bad personnel decisions at times. It happens with all coaches all over the NFL, it happened with shanny, it happened with reeves, it happened with phillips, its happening with MCD......its nearly downright impossible to get all personnel decisions correct....it just is no one is perfect.

Trading hillis wasnt smart, we didnt have a good backfield last year, and he failed to address it in the draft or FA this year untill the last minute, now we pay some penalty with a poor run game....that penalty deserevs some second looks and critique as to why

we could use him and if you dont belive that, fine.....but it shouldnt be a big deal for people to think we could use him here, there is justifiable proof that our run game sucks. Its only normal to wonder

Hillis may not be a cerebral back or fit MCd's system but as a number 4 guy he cant hurt our roster, he certainly would be able to do more than our current number 4 andre brown who has yet to play.

Why is that? becasue you can just hand him the ball and he can give you yds with defenders all over him thats the kinda back he is. he may not be all world or perform like he is doing in clevland but he did prove he could move piles in his time in denver

I didnt have a big issue with why MCD tarded hillis at the time becasue i wasnt a huge orton fan yet....didnt like quinn either but understood the reasoning behind the move

That doesnt mean though that people cant be upset with him not being here anymore......if our run game was good you wouldnt hear baout this as much, but its the worst in many many many years, its really not suprising to see people miss hillis right now.....

[Elevation inc]

Except that for it to be a mistake, you'd have to assume that the results would have been the same here in Denver. That's unlikely at best, and impossible to prove either way.

Much like the case was with Alphonso Smith, in the end it's probably more of a mutually beneficial move.

your assuming just as much as the ones that want him here...like you said impossible to prove either way.. but it was a mistake in some form our current number 4 is injured with turf toe and sitting out, your telling me hillis couldnt be a upgrade over that?

i mean fine if hillis gone isnt a msitake failing to adress his departure in some form was.....we brought in arrington to be the replacement off a bad injury(not smart), then traded him last minute(for god knows what), then got lendale who got hurt, and then got brown who is hurt, then traded for Maroney who was hurt and not in shape.

at some point in that sequence MCd messed up......its just a fact.....this all could have been solved by getting a legit back in the draft and not thinking your PS guys from the year before were the answer...if thats the case why the hell is Ball on the PS and andre brown is hurt on a ctive roster sitting on his butt....

[dogfish]

QFT



its very simple folks coaches make bad personnel decisions at times. It happens with all coaches all over the NFL, it happened with shanny, it happened with reeves, it happened with phillips, its happening with MCD......its nearly downright impossible to get all personnel decisions correct....it just is no one is perfect.

Trading hillis wasnt smart, we didnt have a good backfield last year, and he failed to address it in the draft or FA this year untill the last minute, now we pay some penalty with a poor run game....that penalty deserevs some second looks and critique as to why

we could use him and if you dont belive that, fine.....but it shouldnt be a big deal for people to think we could use him here, there is justifiable proof that our run game sucks. Its only normal to wonder

Hillis may not be a cerebral back or fit MCd's system but as a number 4 guy he cant hurt our roster, he certainly would be able to do more than our current number 4 andre brown who has yet to play.

Why is that? becasue you can just hand him the ball and he can give you yds with defenders all over him thats the kinda back he is. he may not be all world or perform like he is doing in clevland but he did prove he could move piles in his time in denver

I didnt have a big issue with why MCD tarded hillis at the time becasue i wasnt a huge orton fan yet....didnt like quinn either but understood the reasoning behind the move

That doesnt mean though that people cant be upset with him not being here anymore......if our run game was good you wouldnt hear baout this as much, but its the worst in many many many years, its really not suprising to see people miss hillis right now.....

this seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it?

:noidea:




your assuming just as much as the ones that want him here...like you said impossible to prove either way.. but it was a mistake in some form our current number 4 is injured with turf toe and sitting out, your telling me hillis couldnt be a upgrade over that?

i mean fine if hillis gone isnt a msitake failing to adress his departure in some form was.....we brought in arrington to be the replacement off a bad injury(not smart), then traded him last minute(for god knows what), then got lendale who got hurt, and then got brown who is hurt, then traded for Maroney who was hurt and not in shape.

at some point in that sequence MCd messed up......its just a fact.....this all could have been solved by getting a legit back in the draft and not thinking your PS guys from the year before were the answer...if thats the case why the hell is Ball on the PS and andre brown is hurt on a ctive roster sitting on his butt....

he messed up as recently as trading for maroney when we could've had a much, MUCH better back with the same skill set for essentially the same price. . . but instead of getting the guy who can play, we got the guy from new england. . . can we stop feeding belichick draft picks at some point? his scrubs aren't any better than anyone else's scrubs, but when he's rebuilding his defense with oakland, carolina and maybe minnesota's picks, he'll be able to thank us for the luxury of picks he can devote specifically to special teams (along with josh barrett). . .

[Elevation inc]

this seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it?

:noidea:





he messed up as recently as trading for maroney when we could've had a much, MUCH better back with the same skill set for essentially the same price. . . but instead of getting the guy who can play, we got the guy from new england. . . can we stop feeding belichick draft picks at some point? his scrubs aren't any better than anyone else's scrubs, but when he's rebuilding his defense with oakland, carolina and maybe minnesota's picks, he'll be able to thank us for the luxury of picks he can devote specifically to special teams (along with josh barrett). . .



Im not a fan of the in-season free wheeling at all, they all seem like desperation moves to address issues that should have been addressed in more detail before we got to the point of needing to do last minute trades:lol:


part of it to me seems that its just normal errors of a rookie coach trying to shape his roster, and part of it just seems like a waste, and a refelcetion of a impatient coach.....when maybe just some patience would have been the answer


regardless the fact is we have needed to address Rb for years here in denver, nothing new. I like moreno and am fully on his bandwagon and will not be swayed. I loved the pick, and think he will be very good in this league for awhile, i do have concerns about his rash if injuries lately though.

but the fact is we need some more talent at RB period, be it the draft or FA next year he has to address it with something other than andre brown, maroney, bucky or lance ball......

we cant just keep pinning our hopes on moreno all teh time and expecting him to do it all....tahts just bad buisness in today's NFL.....

The top rush teams in the legaue right now outside of maybe houston have 2 guys that can legitametly tote the rock.....

[spikerman]

Do you think Cleveland would be willing to trade him back for Quinn? :D

[Nomad]

He would still be a great fullback in the Howard Griffith mold. I believed it then and believe it now. Oh well, such is life. We poo poo'd that trade.

Yeah, I really haven't paid attention, but whatever happened to Larsen??

[broncophan]

Anyone who doesn't think Brady Quinn is playing a helluva lot better than Hillis is this season....is Crazy........I don't understand what all the discussion is about...

It is kinda" obvious that McD screwd up on this one.....and yea....it kind of pisses me off........but other coaches have made plenty of mistakes as well......McD will make more.....just like all other coaches will make more...

[Dreadnought]

here ya go (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27775). . . :salute:

Nice catch. Some of us really are looking pretty smart in hindsight after all, ain't we? :D

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I loved Hillis while he was here as much as the next guy, but doesn't this thread as well as all the Cutler bashing/loving, Marshall bashing/loving, and Shanahan bashing/loving threads belong in the "Other NFL Teams" forum?

These guys aren't Broncos anymore and probably aren't ever coming back.

[Tned]

I loved Hillis while he was here as much as the next guy, but doesn't this thread as well as all the Cutler bashing/loving, Marshall bashing/loving, and Shanahan bashing/loving threads belong in the "Other NFL Teams" forum?

These guys aren't Broncos anymore and probably aren't ever coming back.

I think the reason this is in here is because it was written by a Broncos beat writer and the article was as much/more about McDaniels as it was Hillis.