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titan
10-04-2010, 07:50 AM
From his Monday Morning QB column:

The numbers, and the impact, don't lie.
I realize it might be an unfair day to make the comparison that Kyle Orton's better than Jay Cutler, but I'm not pitting the quarterbacks against each other on the basis of Orton's terrific road performance at Tennessee and on Cutler's feeble and concussed one in New Jersey Sunday night. This is about a body of work -- granted, not a deep body of work, but a 20-game stretch.
In the NFL, a 20-game sample is enough to make a valid comparison. And on the basis of 20 games, it's hard to argue that Chicago got the better of the Jay Cutler-for-Kyle Orton deal. Forget the ancillary parts of the deal; Denver has not drafted well, and I'm not doing this item to get into the value of the two first-round picks and the third-rounder (which turned into Mike Wallace for the Steelers) acquired by Denver in the deal. Denver didn't do a good job with those picks, but I'm just talking Cutler for Orton. And after Orton's 341-yard performance in the 26-20 win over the Titans, I thought it would be a good chance to take a 20-game look at the two passers. I was surprised by what I found.

QB W-L Pct. Yards TD-Int Yards per att. Rating
Orton 10-9 .634 5,221 27-15 7.29 89.1
Cutler 10-10 .615 4,578 33-29 6.97 80.7

Through the first four weeks of the 2010 season, Orton's 1,419 passing yards leads the NFL; Cutler is 507 yards behind him.
As I remember the April 2009 trade, I'll never forget Denver coach Josh McDaniels telling me he wished Cutler just gave him, and his offense, a chance. "He'd have loved it,'' McDaniels said. "I think any quarterback would love it.''

Cutler got the change of scenery he wanted, but he struggled under offensive coordinator Ron Turner last year, and he's being plagued by terrible protection issues under new coordinator Mike Martz this year; he was sacked nine times and suffered a concussion Sunday night against the Giants.

How long will Cutler have Martz to work with? Who knows? Martz doesn't stay in one coordinator's job very long -- two years in Detroit, one in San Francisco and one now in Chicago. Then again, if the Broncos continue to flame out, Denver owner Pat Bowlen could make a change at head coach, but he's likely to give McDaniels at least one more year.

Quarterbacks under McDaniels have to be smart because McDaniels gives them so much latitude to change plays, both in the meeting rooms and on the field. Orton's very quiet, but I've witnessed him (last May) in meetings changing little things to make it easier to recall and call plays.

You'll remember, this was supposed to be a lopsided deal favoring the Bears. It's not every day you have the chance to get a franchise quarterback in his prime, still young enough to give you six or seven seasons. It's still very early, and we don't know if Orton can keep it up. He's going to have Tim Tebow breathing down his neck in a few months, I'd guess. But he's outplaying Cutler right now. When a quarterback is more accurate and has the better average per pass attempt, that means he's moving the chains and getting the ball downfield. Right now, Orton's better at both.


link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/04/week4/1.html

BroncoNut
10-04-2010, 07:54 AM
hmmm...

CrazyHorse
10-04-2010, 08:01 AM
We totallly owned the Bears in the trade. Too bad we wasted one of the firsts on Phonze(I know it was ours not the one we got in the trade) and the third on Quinn...

BroncoNut
10-04-2010, 08:08 AM
at the time we got owned. but in hindsight, I like it. I was excited when Mike drafted him. I guess he's fun to watch , but not a big jay fan

broncophan
10-04-2010, 08:09 AM
I don't remember that "this was supposed to be a lopsided deal favoring the bears".....Cutler did not prove anything before he left here....
will be interesting to see how things go the rest of this season....although with the beatdown Cutler took last night.......he may not survive....

BroncoNut
10-04-2010, 08:11 AM
I don't remember that "this was supposed to be a lopsided deal favoring the bears".....Cutler did not prove anything before he left here....
will be interesting to see how things go the rest of this season....although with the beatdown Cutler took last night.......he may not survive....

no, but he was still a stronger potential. I can see where some saw it that way. I didn't though, necessarily

broncophan
10-04-2010, 08:17 AM
no, but he was still a stronger potential. I can see where some saw it that way. I didn't though, necessarily

"stronger potential" sure doesn't make a deal lopsided.......imo......

Elevation inc
10-04-2010, 08:19 AM
I don't remember that "this was supposed to be a lopsided deal favoring the bears".....Cutler did not prove anything before he left here....
will be interesting to see how things go the rest of this season....although with the beatdown Cutler took last night.......he may not survive....

belive it or not im pretty sure jay wishes he was still in denver with clady and harris:lol: we may have just given up six sacks but thats a rare sight the last 2 years, cutler gets sacked now.....4-6 times every game:lol:

kinda feel sorry for him, karma can be a bitch sometimes.....lol

broncophan
10-04-2010, 08:26 AM
belive it or not im pretty sure jay wishes he was still in denver with clady and harris:lol: we may have just given up six sacks but thats a rare sight the last 2 years, cutler gets sacked now.....4-6 times every game:lol:

kinda feel sorry for him, karma can be a bitch sometimes.....lol

yes.....he deserves everything that comes his way.....it does suck that he got a concussion though....and I don't wish that on anyone....

with Cutler one week he will look good....and the next 2 weeks he will look absolutely horrible....very inconsistant......that seems to be what you get with him....as well as his poor attitude...

atwater27
10-04-2010, 08:27 AM
Everyone knows that the comparison would have favored Cutler had he been here instead of Chicago during the games sample in question. The system is quarterback friendly here. The funniest thing about the article is King's assumption that it was all Cutler's fault. He assumes that Josh wanted him here, and makes no mention of the Cassell situation (whom let's not forget he wanted over Cutler, much less Orton). So King's take is ignorant on the whole McDaniels/Cutler situation.

That being said, Orton is doing a great job here and stands alone as his own quarterback. But the comparison to Cutler isn't intellectually honest considering their 2 entirely different situations. Jay is in quarterback hell with Martz, I cannot think of a worse situation for the QB to be in now. How anyone would hire Martz after his track record of leading the NFL in int's and sacks in Detroit and S.F.... The Bears are ina bad way as an organization, the HC and the OC need to be fired.

BroncoNut
10-04-2010, 08:28 AM
"stronger potential" sure doesn't make a deal lopsided.......imo......

you've got a point there, but it was a good roll of the dice by Chicago

silkamilkamonico
10-04-2010, 08:31 AM
Great article and I couldn't agree more. I didn't want to think that Orton might just be flat out better than Cutler, but aside from the physcial talents that Cutler significantly has over Orton, he isn't anywhere near Orton in terms of decision making, which is arguably the most important QB "skill" there is.

I've tried to argue the lack of oline Cutler has in Chicago, but Orton has quelled that theory, especially considering Cutler at least has a running game to fall back on.

atwater27
10-04-2010, 08:40 AM
especially considering Cutler at least has a running game to fall back on.

Ummm no. Apparently you haven't actually watched a Chicago game in the last 2 seasons. They are as bad as we are running the ball this season.

silkamilkamonico
10-04-2010, 08:43 AM
Ummm no. Apparently you haven't actually watched a Chicago game in the last 2 seasons. They are as bad as we are running the ball this season.

Umm no. 3.3 ypc is not the same as 2.2 ypc. That's like you trying to argue Denver's defense is "nothing" without Mike Nolan.

BroncoNut
10-04-2010, 08:44 AM
Ummm no. Apparently you haven't actually watched a Chicago game in the last 2 seasons. They are as bad as we are running the ball this season.

umm. no. Forte >>> than anything we have

silkamilkamonico
10-04-2010, 08:51 AM
umm. no. Forte >>> than anything we have

Their backup RB would probably start in Denver. Honestly, I think not using Chester Taylor is a big mistake for them. Look at how bad Minnesota's rushing game is without him, and their fans are noticing that. If they can get him more involved somehow maybe they could take some pressure off Cutler.

SOCALORADO.
10-04-2010, 08:52 AM
When this trade happened, everyone was quick to jump on the "Cutler has a cannon, so hes worth it" bandwagon. For the casual observer, it seemed the bears got the best of the deal. But from what ive seen, Cutler is a INT machine. He has actually thown many more picks so far this season, but a number of them have been dropped! I would say he would be around 7 or 8 INTs right now if they were held onto.
I was one of like 6 posters who knew and wanted Cutler before the 2006 draft. I was incredibly happy when DEN drafted him. It took all the way to that fateful game in SD for me to realize that he wasnt all mentally what he seemed to be physically.
That whole jawjacking scene with Rivers and his teammates and Cutlers disgruntled look along with the fact that not ONE, SINGLE DEN player came to his defense was the point where i started to see his very Jeff Georgian mentality.
Basically, its this.
Cutler thinks his $h!t dont stink. And thats never good for a team.

BroncoNut
10-04-2010, 08:54 AM
that's right. Chester is the backup in Chi town. I knew they had some solid depth too, just couldn't remember who

TXBRONC
10-04-2010, 10:10 AM
The same problem exists for both teams. Bears haven't been able to rely on their running game anymore than Denver has.

Before people trying to validate how much better the Bears running is atp they should go and look at the stats. That 3.3 average is skewed by the fact that Hester has one rushing attempt for 11 yards. Forte who as individual talent may be more talented than any of our running backs still only has ypc of 2.7. That's with 11 more attempts than Moreno who has 2.8 ypc.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Their backup RB would probably start in Denver. Honestly, I think not using Chester Taylor is a big mistake for them. Look at how bad Minnesota's rushing game is without him, and their fans are noticing that. If they can get him more involved somehow maybe they could take some pressure off Cutler.

Minnesota's rushing game is "bad"? Someone needs to tell Adrian Petersen that. I think he is in the top 5 of the league, and they don't really use anyone else. Petersen is averaging 130 yards per game and nearly 6 yards per carry this season. I don't think the Broncos have 130 yards all season from their RB.

BeefStew25
10-04-2010, 10:23 AM
Call me when we make the playoffs.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 10:24 AM
The Cutler trade seems like a bonanza for the Broncos until you start to look closely at the players taken with the draft picks on both sides. Bears used a pick from Denver to get Johnny Knox. Steelers used the pick Denver got in the deal on Mike Wallace. Arguably those two players are better than anyone the Broncos have acquired with their side of the draft considerations. Especially considering that Demaryius Thomas has caught 3 of the last dozen passes thrown his way, despite working against the weakest link of the oppo defense.

rcsodak
10-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Call me when we make the playoffs.
ok....but it might be a crank call from plummer.
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Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 11:49 AM
The Cutler trade seems like a bonanza for the Broncos until you start to look closely at the players taken with the draft picks on both sides. Bears used a pick from Denver to get Johnny Knox. Steelers used the pick Denver got in the deal on Mike Wallace. Arguably those two players are better than anyone the Broncos have acquired with their side of the draft considerations. Especially considering that Demaryius Thomas has caught 3 of the last dozen passes thrown his way, despite working against the weakest link of the oppo defense.

The players taken don't matter when it comes to breaking down the trade. The picks, and players, gotten matter. The players taken with the picks only matter when it comes to breaking down a team's drafting skills.

Shazam!
10-04-2010, 11:53 AM
With any kind of a running game for a defense to have to respect, Orton would be playing better than any QN not named Manning or Brady right now. We havent even seen him at his best yet.

Tned
10-04-2010, 11:59 AM
The players taken don't matter when it comes to breaking down the trade. The picks, and players, gotten matter. The players taken with the picks only matter when it comes to breaking down a team's drafting skills.

Agreed, two seperate things.

spikerman
10-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Agreed, two seperate things.

I think it depends on what you're actually trying to judge. If it's who worked out the better deal, that's one question, but if you're trying to figure out who ultimately "won" in the deal I think which players wind up on the team as a result is the only way to judge. What good does it do to wind up with multiple picks if they're wasted? I think Denver did well in "getting" the picks, but I think other teams did more with the picks than Denver did.

At this point, I don't think there is a clear cut winner.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Everyone knows that the comparison would have favored Cutler had he been here instead of Chicago during the games sample in question. The system is quarterback friendly here. The funniest thing about the article is King's assumption that it was all Cutler's fault. He assumes that Josh wanted him here, and makes no mention of the Cassell situation (whom let's not forget he wanted over Cutler, much less Orton). So King's take is ignorant on the whole McDaniels/Cutler situation.

That being said, Orton is doing a great job here and stands alone as his own quarterback. But the comparison to Cutler isn't intellectually honest considering their 2 entirely different situations. Jay is in quarterback hell with Martz, I cannot think of a worse situation for the QB to be in now. How anyone would hire Martz after his track record of leading the NFL in int's and sacks in Detroit and S.F.... The Bears are ina bad way as an organization, the HC and the OC need to be fired.


As I remember the April 2009 trade, I'll never forget Denver coach Josh McDaniels telling me he wished Cutler just gave him, and his offense, a chance. "He'd have loved it,'' McDaniels said. "I think any quarterback would love it.''


I'm guessing that when Josh came to town that jay left some doubt in Joshes mind about the new scheme coming to town, that playing in a controlled passing game was not what he was interested in doing.
OR
When given the play books to learn and in subsequent conversations Josh figured out it would be like pulling teeth for it to happen.

Y'all seem to forget that jay really loved mike and his scheme. Even with mike he was a petulant kid. Lets not even mention IF the new contract was discussed before things got nasty.

If I were Josh and seeing what I had I too would have wanted a Proven QB that knows the play book to get a fast start and be my on the field General.

Having to teach everyone on the field this offense Except Gaffeny and Hockstein did not get us off to a fast start offensively. IMO

Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 12:17 PM
I think it depends on what you're actually trying to judge. If it's who worked out the better deal, that's one question, but if you're trying to figure out who ultimately "won" in the deal I think which players wind up on the team as a result is the only way to judge. What good does it do to wind up with multiple picks if they're wasted? I think Denver did well in "getting" the picks, but I think other teams did more with the picks than Denver did.

At this point, I don't think there is a clear cut winner.

The Broncos got 2 1st round picks and Orton for Cutler and a 5th round pick. The Bears got hosed in the deal. What is done with the picks doesn't matter. You're rating the deal, not the drafting acumen of the respective teams.

spikerman
10-04-2010, 12:22 PM
The Broncos got 2 1st round picks and Orton for Cutler and a 5th round pick. The Bears got hosed in the deal. What is done with the picks doesn't matter. You're rating the deal, not the drafting acumen of the respective teams. Like I said, IF, I'm judging based on who received what in the deal that's one thing. If I'm trying to figure out who "won" or ultimately wound up with "more" as a result of the deal that's something else. I think we're agreeing here to an extent. The difference is that I don't think a deal can be judged until it is completely played out, that is, once all of the draft choices have been made, etc.

Tned
10-04-2010, 12:23 PM
The Broncos got 2 1st round picks and Orton for Cutler and a 5th round pick. The Bears got hosed in the deal. What is done with the picks doesn't matter. You're rating the deal, not the drafting acumen of the respective teams.

It still remains to be seen if Chicago got hosed. This time last year, few experts, including Mr. King, felt that way. After Orton having a solid year last year, and a great start this year, and Cutler struggling badly last year and in last nights game, then you can make a case for at this point in time, only looking at the last 20 games, as King did, that Chicago got hosed, because Orton does better in that limited comparison than Cutler.

However, like with a draft pick, we are too close to the event to properly evaluate it. It's gong to take time and hindsight to know which team did better.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 12:33 PM
When this trade happened, everyone was quick to jump on the "Cutler has a cannon, so hes worth it" bandwagon. For the casual observer, it seemed the bears got the best of the deal. But from what ive seen, Cutler is a INT machine. He has actually thown many more picks so far this season, but a number of them have been dropped! I would say he would be around 7 or 8 INTs right now if they were held onto.
I was one of like 6 posters who knew and wanted Cutler before the 2006 draft. I was incredibly happy when DEN drafted him. It took all the way to that fateful game in SD for me to realize that he wasnt all mentally what he seemed to be physically.
That whole jawjacking scene with Rivers and his teammates and Cutlers disgruntled look along with the fact that not ONE, SINGLE DEN player came to his defense was the point where i started to see his very Jeff Georgian mentality.
Basically, its this.
Cutler thinks his $h!t dont stink. And thats never good for a team.

I was never a fan of drafting jay, thought we needed bona-fide talent at DT at the tie (for that matter still do) but once he was the starter I really tried to support him. But his pouting on the bench, never taking responsibility at press conferences after the game but taking an arrogant attitude and walking off all the time, getting into his WR faces, and last but not least like you when I saw him and rivers getting into it across the field I knew he was mentally defeated. The bolts were so inside his head he should have phoned in the play from that point on.



The Cutler trade seems like a bonanza for the Broncos until you start to look closely at the players taken with the draft picks on both sides. Bears used a pick from Denver to get Johnny Knox. Steelers used the pick Denver got in the deal on Mike Wallace. Arguably those two players are better than anyone the Broncos have acquired with their side of the draft considerations. Especially considering that Demaryius Thomas has caught 3 of the last dozen passes thrown his way, despite working against the weakest link of the oppo defense.

FWIW DT was not part of the trade. and please do not say that Ayers whom we did get as part of the trade stinks.

Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 12:34 PM
It still remains to be seen if Chicago got hosed. This time last year, few experts, including Mr. King, felt that way. After Orton having a solid year last year, and a great start this year, and Cutler struggling badly last year and in last nights game, then you can make a case for at this point in time, only looking at the last 20 games, as King did, that Chicago got hosed, because Orton does better in that limited comparison than Cutler.

However, like with a draft pick, we are too close to the event to properly evaluate it. It's gong to take time and hindsight to know which team did better.

While I understand your position, I've never considered Cutler to be a quality player, because his potential has always been outweighed by his willingness to throw away games. I don't evaluate based upon potential when a player's going into year 5 of his NFL career. It's possible that Cutler will finally get a clue and make the deal more even but, as of now, it's clear domination by Denver. The Broncos got the better QB AND 2 first round picks.

And, yes, I'd take Orton over Cutler straight up right now. That will remain my position at least until Cutler learns how not to choke games away.

Tned
10-04-2010, 12:37 PM
While I understand your position, I've never considered Cutler to be a quality player, because his potential has always been outweighed by his willingness to throw away games. I don't evaluate based upon potential when a player's going into year 5 of his NFL career. It's possible that Cutler will finally get a clue and make the deal more even but, as of now, it's clear domination by Denver. The Broncos got the better QB AND 2 first round picks.

And, yes, I'd take Orton over Cutler straight up right now. That will remain my position at least until Cutler learns how not to choke games away.

I understand your opinion of Cutler, I am talking about the so called NFL experts. They had a MUCH greater opinion of Cutler, and therefore the trade, then you do/did. I am simply saying it will take time to see who was right. You, or the NFL experts and multiple teams lined up to give Denver two first round picks + a starting QB.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 12:37 PM
Like I said, IF, I'm judging based on who received what in the deal that's one thing. If I'm trying to figure out who "won" or ultimately wound up with "more" as a result of the deal that's something else. I think we're agreeing here to an extent. The difference is that I don't think a deal can be judged until it is completely played out, that is, once all of the draft choices have been made, etc.

At this point, even up QB for QB, it looks like we might have gotten the better of the deal.

That is IF you count production and not potential.

Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 12:37 PM
Like I said, IF, I'm judging based on who received what in the deal that's one thing. If I'm trying to figure out who "won" or ultimately wound up with "more" as a result of the deal that's something else. I think we're agreeing here to an extent. The difference is that I don't think a deal can be judged until it is completely played out, that is, once all of the draft choices have been made, etc.

The difference is that you're asserting that the players taken with the draft picks matter, and I'm saying they don't. Or, to put it another way: If you sell something for $5, you know whether you got a good deal or not, regardless of how you spend the $5.

Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 12:40 PM
I understand your opinion of Cutler, I am talking about the so called NFL experts. They had a MUCH greater opinion of Cutler, and therefore the trade, then you do/did. I am simply saying it will take time to see who was right. You, or the NFL experts and multiple teams lined up to give Denver two first round picks + a starting QB.

I see your point, and I don't disagree with your assertion, in the sense of you comparing my position to that of the media/"experts". If Cutler goes on to play up to Brady/Manning/Brees levels, I'll have to reassess the trade.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 12:46 PM
I see your point, and I don't disagree with your assertion, in the sense of you comparing my position to that of the media/"experts". If Cutler goes on to play up to Brady/Manning/Brees levels, I'll have to reassess the trade.

:salute:
As others would if Orton does the same.

spikerman
10-04-2010, 12:57 PM
The difference is that you're asserting that the players taken with the draft picks matter, and I'm saying they don't. Or, to put it another way: If you sell something for $5, you know whether you got a good deal or not, regardless of how you spend the $5.

Yes, but what if you sell something for $5 and later on you accidentally flushed that $5 down the toilet? Who ultimately wound up better off?

Northman
10-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Lmao,

How did i know this thread was coming.

dogfish
10-04-2010, 01:18 PM
thanks for the news flash, pete-- guess that's why you get the big bucks. . .

rcsodak
10-04-2010, 01:21 PM
Yes, but what if you sell something for $5 and later on you accidentally flushed that $5 down the toilet? Who ultimately wound up better off?

plummer
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Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 01:21 PM
Yes, but what if you sell something for $5 and later on you accidentally flushed that $5 down the toilet? Who ultimately wound up better off?

When you're talking about the $5 sale, your question doesn't matter. If I waste the 5 bucks on candy, if I invest it in a small stock that becomes the next Microsoft.... doesn't matter. The sale is what the sale is.

Tned
10-04-2010, 01:24 PM
:salute:
As others would if Orton does the same.


I see your point, and I don't disagree with your assertion, in the sense of you comparing my position to that of the media/"experts". If Cutler goes on to play up to Brady/Manning/Brees levels, I'll have to reassess the trade.

Yep. Another factor will be how long Orton is here, and what happens after he leaves. If he has success this year and next and then leaves as a free agent, does he continue to play at a high level, or play like Cassel.

That, combined with what Cutler does, will let us evaluate long term. If the last two games, and to a degree first four, are a preview of what Orton has to give vs. being a short hot streak, then it will be difficult for Cutler to perform at a high enough level to "based on today's knowledge" justify two first round picks and Orton in a trade.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 01:29 PM
Yep. Another factor will be how long Orton is here, and what happens after he leaves. If he has success this year and next and then leaves as a free agent, does he continue to play at a high level, or play like Cassel.

That, combined with what Cutler does, will let us evaluate long term. If the last two games, and to a degree first four, are a preview of what Orton has to give vs. being a short hot streak, then it will be difficult for Cutler to perform at a high enough level to "based on today's knowledge" justify two first round picks and Orton in a trade.

No matter what happens with Orton long term as it stands right now I believe we got the better of the deal.

He will be a great bridge to the FQB in Tebow, Allow him the time he needs to develop with out hurting him or forcing him into a starting job before he is ready for it. For that I will always be thankful.

as for jay really could care less as he is not a bronco any more. fail or succeed really not my worry.

Tned
10-04-2010, 01:35 PM
No matter what happens with Orton long term as it stands right now I believe we got the better of the deal.

He will be a great bridge to the FQB in Tebow, Allow him the time he needs to develop with out hurting him or forcing him into a starting job before he is ready for it. For that I will always be thankful.

as for jay really could care less as he is not a bronco any more. fail or succeed really not my worry.

It's obvious how you feel about Jay, and therefore that we got the better end of the deal, regardless of what Jay or Kyle does. Obviously, you are entitled to that opinion.

I was simply responding to Fugit in terms of how the NFL experts in the media and other GMs around football and stuff are going to evaluate the trade, which will have to be done with hindsight, not pre-conceived notions. Does that make sense?

silkamilkamonico
10-04-2010, 01:35 PM
Minnesota's rushing game is "bad"? Someone needs to tell Adrian Petersen that. I think he is in the top 5 of the league, and they don't really use anyone else. Petersen is averaging 130 yards per game and nearly 6 yards per carry this season. I don't think the Broncos have 130 yards all season from their RB.

There's the major flaw in your argument right there. After Peterson, they have nobody. They drafted Toby Gerhardt to take over for Taylor, and have been so unhappy with him they have started reducing his role for Albert Young. Minnesota's RB's minus Peterson are averaging 2.4 ypc, which is considerably worse than Taylor's 4.5 ypc Minnesota was getting when he was backing up AP.

Considering they are looking for ways to lighten AP's load instead of demanding it, yea, I would say their replacement for Chester Taylor is bad.

BroncoBJ
10-04-2010, 01:35 PM
Good article. Orton is off to a better career in Denver then Cutlers career is getting off to in Chicago. And Orton this year is off to a better year then Cutler has had in Denver if he stays on his pace. Well Orton is off to a better year then anyone ever has had in Denver :lol: Lets just hope the W/L record follows. And hopefully Cutler has another mediocre year in Chicago.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 01:42 PM
It's obvious how you feel about Jay, and therefore that we got the better end of the deal, regardless of what Jay or Kyle does. Obviously, you are entitled to that opinion.

I was simply responding to Fugit in terms of how the NFL experts in the media and other GMs around football and stuff are going to evaluate the trade, which will have to be done with hindsight, not pre-conceived notions. Does that make sense?

I supported him while a starter never liked his pick to start with but was warming up to him till that last game in SAN (in 07 I think) when rivers and one of the OLB got in his head. from that point on the bolts owned him.

IMO there was no chance of ever turning that around. That was the turning point again for my wrath, his pouting on teh bench was bad enough but when I saw how mentally weak he was there.

I knew he would never be much more than the next Jeff George someone long on talent, but short in taking direction and his arrogance would get him in the long run. Glad he is not our issue anymore. Glad we got Orton and Ayers out of the deal. to ME that is more than enuff.

broncophan
10-04-2010, 01:43 PM
Good article. Orton is off to a better career in Denver then Cutlers career is getting off to in Chicago. And Orton this year is off to a better year then Cutler has had in Denver if he stays on his pace. Well Orton is off to a better year then anyone ever has had in Denver :lol: Lets just hope the W/L record follows. And hopefully Cutler has another mediocre year in Chicago.

after Cutler's game last night.....I think depends undergarments may be needed for him the rest of the season......getting beat down like that can have a lasting affect...

Good to see Orton in control of the offense out there....and am looking forward to see how the offense does against the ravens...

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 01:46 PM
Good article. Orton is off to a better career in Denver then Cutlers career is getting off to in Chicago. And Orton this year is off to a better year then Cutler has had in Denver if he stays on his pace. Well Orton is off to a better year then anyone ever has had in Denver :lol: Lets just hope the W/L record follows. And hopefully Cutler has another mediocre year in Chicago.

It should have been a fire able offense to give two #1s and a swap for their 3 for our 5 for jay, as they have needed help on the OL and WR slot for as long as I can remember.

Not sure what they gave up for OT Pace they brought in but that was a lousy Idea also.

they should have used those picks for OL and WR instead had to use them for other things

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM
after Cutler's game last night.....I think depends undergarments may be needed for him the rest of the season......getting beat down like that can have a lasting affect...

Good to see Orton in control of the offense out there....and am looking forward to see how the offense does against the ravens...

Lets just hope that the OL does not get him killed or in the hospital.

honz
10-04-2010, 01:53 PM
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cutler-sack8.jpg

BroncoBJ
10-04-2010, 02:05 PM
It should have been a fire able offense to give two #1s and a swap for their 3 for our 5 for jay, as they have needed help on the OL and WR slot for as long as I can remember.

Not sure what they gave up for OT Pace they brought in but that was a lousy Idea also.

they should have used those picks for OL and WR instead had to use them for other things

Yea, but the way I look it. Kyle is playing better then Jay and looks like the better QB right now. In the system or whatever. Kyle looks like the better QB. All the picks we got in addition is just a bonus. We might have won the deal if we traded Jay for Kyle straight up. Everything else is a bonus. :elefant:

Tned
10-04-2010, 02:57 PM
I supported him while a starter never liked his pick to start with but was warming up to him till that last game in SAN (in 07 I think) when rivers and one of the OLB got in his head. from that point on the bolts owned him.

IMO there was no chance of ever turning that around. That was the turning point again for my wrath, his pouting on teh bench was bad enough but when I saw how mentally weak he was there.

I knew he would never be much more than the next Jeff George someone long on talent, but short in taking direction and his arrogance would get him in the long run. Glad he is not our issue anymore. Glad we got Orton and Ayers out of the deal. to ME that is more than enuff.

Steve Young stated that uneducated fans mistakenly believe that Cutler pouts on the bench, but that is not the case at all. Not sure he's an expert, but that's what he said. I think following the GB game, not 100% sure.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 03:32 PM
FWIW DT was not part of the trade. and please do not say that Ayers whom we did get as part of the trade stinks.

The first first round pick was spent on Ayers, who seems to be finally coming into his own. The second one was substantially Thomas, after a couple of tradebacks in the first round. The third rounder was wasted, (along with another third round pick) to move up for Richard Quinn. Orton, Ayers, Thomas, R. Quinn, for Cutler and Knox, is the substance of the deal. Chicago got better production from Cutler and Knox than Denver did out of Orton, Ayers, and Quinn last season. It's probably a draw at this point, and you would hope Denver pulls ahead in the future. Thomas will be the decider.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 03:35 PM
There's the major flaw in your argument right there. After Peterson, they have nobody. They drafted Toby Gerhardt to take over for Taylor, and have been so unhappy with him they have started reducing his role for Albert Young. Minnesota's RB's minus Peterson are averaging 2.4 ypc, which is considerably worse than Taylor's 4.5 ypc Minnesota was getting when he was backing up AP.

Considering they are looking for ways to lighten AP's load instead of demanding it, yea, I would say their replacement for Chester Taylor is bad.

I've never heard mention about "lightening" Peterson's load. Quite the contrary I think they want to use him more to lighten Brett Favre's load. I'm too lazy to look, but I bet Minnesota as a team are among the upper echelon in ground offense this season.

Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 03:38 PM
The first first round pick was spent on Ayers, who seems to be finally coming into his own. The second one was substantially Thomas, after a couple of tradebacks in the first round. The third rounder was wasted, (along with another third round pick) to move up for Richard Quinn. Orton, Ayers, Thomas, R. Quinn, for Cutler and Knox, is the substance of the deal. Chicago got better production from Cutler and Knox than Denver did out of Orton, Ayers, and Quinn last season. It's probably a draw at this point, and you would hope Denver pulls ahead in the future. Thomas will be the decider.

Anyone who thinks it's a draw to this point should be required to take daily drug tests.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 03:39 PM
Cutler always looks sour. He probably looks like he's pouting after having sex for 2 hours.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 03:40 PM
Anyone who thinks it's a draw to this point should be required to take daily drug tests.

There isn't much of a statistical difference between the QBs, and Knox certainly did a hell of a lot more than Ayers or Quinn last season, so yeah, a draw at this point seems reasonable.

Tempus Fugit
10-04-2010, 03:45 PM
There isn't much of a statistical difference between the QBs, and Knox certainly did a hell of a lot more than Ayers or Quinn last season, so yeah, a draw at this point seems reasonable.

I'm sorry, but when the QBs are even, I'll take a pair of #1's and a #3 over a #5 all day and every day. So would any sane football GM.


It's not even close.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 03:53 PM
I'm sorry, but when the QBs are even, I'll take a pair of #1's and a #3 over a #5 all day and every day. So would any sane football GM.


It's not even close.

Knox went to the Pro Bowl last season, which is more than any of the other prinicpals in the deal managed.

Dzone
10-04-2010, 03:54 PM
This is great...I cant tell you how hard my friends in Chicago were laughing last year.."hahahaha, You got stuck with Orton and we got Cutler!!!Hahaha"...well, who is laughing now?

Tned
10-04-2010, 04:17 PM
This is great...I cant tell you how hard my friends in Chicago were laughing last year.."hahahaha, You got stuck with Orton and we got Cutler!!!Hahaha"...well, who is laughing now?

The Giants' front seven....

WARHORSE
10-04-2010, 04:42 PM
Is anyone surprised?


Cutler is an amazing talent.


With a stubborness and arrogance that closes doors on the ability to gain certain knowledge. Knowledge needed to excel and lead on this level.


9 sacks in a game, umpteen INTs, having potential OCs avoiding you, and losing tends to help those issues.


Sometimes.

At others, people would rather have their stubborness than anything else.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 04:50 PM
I think Orton is probably working for a fraction of the wages that Cutler pulls down.

Bosco
10-04-2010, 05:08 PM
Everyone knows that the comparison would have favored Cutler had he been here instead of Chicago during the games sample in question. The system is quarterback friendly here. The funniest thing about the article is King's assumption that it was all Cutler's fault. He assumes that Josh wanted him here, and makes no mention of the Cassell situation (whom let's not forget he wanted over Cutler, much less Orton). So King's take is ignorant on the whole McDaniels/Cutler situation. So actually quoting someone = assumption now?

I hope reality comes back to visit you soon.

NightTrainLayne
10-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Everyone knows that the comparison would have favored Cutler had he been here instead of Chicago during the games sample in question. The system is quarterback friendly here. The funniest thing about the article is King's assumption that it was all Cutler's fault. He assumes that Josh wanted him here, and makes no mention of the Cassell situation (whom let's not forget he wanted over Cutler, much less Orton). So King's take is ignorant on the whole McDaniels/Cutler situation.


I think we would all benefit if we could step back and quit making everything so black and white.

We as a fan-base have gotten to the point where there's two very loud camps on either extreme of this issue, and a whole bunch of folks stuck in the middle who are tired of it being re-hashed and re-litigated in virtually every thread.

Camp one has the opinion that McD traded Cutler and other talented members of a very talented and up-and-coming offense for any number of reasons from being a total dipshit, to not being a good manager, to being an egotistical brat who couldn't deal with the star power of the players, etc. etc.

Camp two has the opinion that these players weren't right for a number of reasons, and in essence were either trouble-makers, or couldn't handle the offense smarts-wise, or just plain didn't want to be here. Also, most camp two folks assert very strongly that McD just "picked up the phone" regarding a possible trade for Cassell, and that that Cutler over-reacted and threw a tantrum about it which turned him into a malcontent who wanted out.

Then you have a big group of folks stuck in the middle who feel that it's all in the past at this point, let it go, and move one in varying degrees.

Here's my reasoning for not looking at this situation at a black and white situation on either side:

McD apparently likes QB's. Most folks understand that there was more to McD's conversation than just "picking up the phone", but is it possible that McD was seriously looking at Cassell, but just not necessarily to replace Cutler?

Evidence to back this? A. McD signed Chris Simms to a huge contract to back up Cutler (and he did not impress). B. McD traded for Brady Quinn, who has spent about half his time here as a presumable third-stringer. C. McD did a lot of draft-day finagling to get extra picks in order to spend them on Tebow.

Is it possible that McD wanted Cassell as a back-up, and potentially to push Cutler for the job since Cassell already had the system down pat? We've seen McD's penchant for bringing in players that know his system, even passing up seemingly more talented free agents in favor of those who know the system.

We have now potentially three starting QB's on our roster (granted Quinn hasn't looked great but he has been a bona-fide starter in the league). Why would it be any different for McD to bring in Cassell behind Cutler and have two potential starting QB's on the roster?

I think that McD places a high premium on his QB knowing the system inside and out, and that he was quite possibly interested in Cassell, not necessarily to replace Cutler, but instead to have a high quality back-up who knew the system, could push Cutler, and had the potential to win the job if Cutler just couldn't cut it.

Wouldn't the situation have played out almost identically, if McD had talked about acquiring Quinn instead of Cassell? And yet, when McD did acquire Quinn a year later it raised eye-brows, but didn't seem to ruffle Orton's feathers too much.

Of course, McD could have handled it better, especially the PR side, but I think Cutler could have handled it better as well. Ce La Vie.

I like "Occam's Razor" as a helpful tool to analyze complicated situations. When you put all of McD's actions into the mix, the simplest explanation is that McD wanted Cassell in some capacity, and when he got caught exploring the options (yes that's more than just picking up the phone, but not necessarily a full-fledged effort to trade Cutler for Cassel) he didn't handle the questions well. However, it's obvious that he is not afraid of bringing in guys who have the potential to create a QB controversy, and he definitely likes to bring in players who know his system, even for depth.

None of us will ever know. Really only McD and Xanders know. But this is exactly the reason that we need to avoid black-and-white arguments about what went on.


The funniest thing about the article is King's assumption that it was all Cutler's fault. He assumes that Josh wanted him here, and makes no mention of the Cassell situation (whom let's not forget he wanted over Cutler, much less Orton). So King's take is ignorant on the whole McDaniels/Cutler situation.

King wrote extensively on the situation at the time and afterwards. He really appeared to have the inside track with McD at the time, and King imo did the best job of reporting on the situation at the time after many conversations with McD. If you go back and look at King's reporting at that time, you might not necessarily agree with my point of view, but I think you'd have a hard time justifying the argument that McD didn't want Cutler here, or that he wanted Cassell over Cutler. That simply doesn't fit very well.

rcsodak
10-04-2010, 05:47 PM
There's the major flaw in your argument right there. After Peterson, they have nobody. They drafted Toby Gerhardt to take over for Taylor, and have been so unhappy with him they have started reducing his role for Albert Young. Minnesota's RB's minus Peterson are averaging 2.4 ypc, which is considerably worse than Taylor's 4.5 ypc Minnesota was getting when he was backing up AP.

Considering they are looking for ways to lighten AP's load instead of demanding it, yea, I would say their replacement for Chester Taylor is bad.
I'd love to see McD take TG off Minn's hands. I was hoping to get him in the draft. *pipe dream*
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rcsodak
10-04-2010, 05:56 PM
after Cutler's game last night.....I think depends undergarments may be needed for him the rest of the season......getting beat down like that can have a lasting affect...

Good to see Orton in control of the offense out there....and am looking forward to see how the offense does against the ravens...
Honestly it didnt look to me like he ever was phased. They never got big hits on him as he saw it coming and protected himself. (minus the late hits while he was down).
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atwater27
10-04-2010, 06:13 PM
King wrote extensively on the situation at the time and afterwards. He really appeared to have the inside track with McD at the time, and King imo did the best job of reporting on the situation at the time after many conversations with McD. If you go back and look at King's reporting at that time, you might not necessarily agree with my point of view, but I think you'd have a hard time justifying the argument that McD didn't want Cutler here, or that he wanted Cassell over Cutler. That simply doesn't fit very well.

You are assuming Josh told Mr. King what really happened.

Bosco
10-04-2010, 06:40 PM
You are assuming Josh told Mr. King what really happened.

Yeah, that's it!


http://flinchbot.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/conspiracy-theory.gif

silkamilkamonico
10-04-2010, 06:40 PM
I've never heard mention about "lightening" Peterson's load. Quite the contrary I think they want to use him more to lighten Brett Favre's load. I'm too lazy to look, but I bet Minnesota as a team are among the upper echelon in ground offense this season.

Unless they plan on cutting Adrian Peterson's career short a la Larry Johnson KC style, they have fully intended on remaining committed to lightening the load for Peterson, and use him more out of the backfield as a receiver.

Minnesota traded their second round pick AND third round pick to move up and acquire Toby Gerhart. They would not have paid that price for a RB if they were trying to get AP even more touches.

Tned
10-04-2010, 06:44 PM
You are assuming Josh told Mr. King what really happened.

Last year some of the local Denver media were outspoken in their criticism of McDaniels for giving more interviews and spending more time with national media than local media (might have been during his first offseason, before last season).

King could be full of it, but when he wrote about things after the trade he insinuated that McDaniels had shared many details with him.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 06:51 PM
Steve Young stated that uneducated fans mistakenly believe that Cutler pouts on the bench, but that is not the case at all. Not sure he's an expert, but that's what he said. I think following the GB game, not 100% sure.

Well Steve Young did not see him as I did at the beginning of his career tell teammates to leave him alone after he fubared a play. Or throw his helmet and then go to his spot on the bench to "ponder" what to do next.

I'm pretty sure that I also heard a teammate say that jay did not want to be bothered after a bad play and he sets alone because of that.

If I'm uneducated then I still say that he is pouting because a play went bad.

I realized that he needs to rest and relax but most QB's do not exclude their teammates.

I do not believe anyone can with 100% accuracy that jay does not have maturity delusion of grandeur issues.

NO ONE doubts his physical talent just what is above the shoulder pads.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 06:55 PM
The first first round pick was spent on Ayers, who seems to be finally coming into his own. The second one was substantially Thomas, after a couple of tradebacks in the first round. The third rounder was wasted, (along with another third round pick) to move up for Richard Quinn. Orton, Ayers, Thomas, R. Quinn, for Cutler and Knox, is the substance of the deal. Chicago got better production from Cutler and Knox than Denver did out of Orton, Ayers, and Quinn last season. It's probably a draw at this point, and you would hope Denver pulls ahead in the future. Thomas will be the decider.

Lets try again.. DT came about as Josh traded back several times with this years first choice.

It was OUR first pick this year.

the Bears other first pick that was scheduled for this year (10) was traded last year to pick up A smith in the second round, of this I am sure.

Tned
10-04-2010, 06:56 PM
Well Steve Young did not see him as I did at the beginning of his career tell teammates to leave him alone after he fubared a play. Or throw his helmet and then go to his spot on the bench to "ponder" what to do next.

I'm pretty sure that I also heard a teammate say that jay did not want to be bothered after a bad play and he sets alone because of that.

If I'm uneducated then I still say that he is pouting because a play went bad.

I realized that he needs to rest and relax but most QB's do not exclude their teammates.

I do not believe anyone can with 100% accuracy that jay does not have maturity delusion of grandeur issues.

NO ONE doubts his physical talent just what is above the shoulder pads.

I'm just relaying what Young said. He went OUT OF HIS WAY to address this and ask one of his teammates (#82 I think) about it.

Then again, Steve Young was one of the most outspoken critics of Denver after Cutler trade, so maybe he has as much of a man crush on Cutler as some Denver fans have hatred for him. Beats me.

Bosco
10-04-2010, 06:57 PM
Last year some of the local Denver media were outspoken in their criticism of McDaniels for giving more interviews and spending more time with national media than local media (might have been during his first offseason, before last season).

King could be full of it, but when he wrote about things after the trade he insinuated that McDaniels had shared many details with him.

King is a pretty big Patriot homer and is one of the few chosen ones to have broken through Belichick's Iron Curtain, so it's not real surprising that Josh probably felt a comfort level with him and would have favored him over the local guys, especially since some of them love to take on an antagonist (Kiszla, I'm looking at you) role.

Bosco
10-04-2010, 07:01 PM
Well Steve Young did not see him as I did at the beginning of his career tell teammates to leave him alone after he fubared a play. Or throw his helmet and then go to his spot on the bench to "ponder" what to do next.

I'm pretty sure that I also heard a teammate say that jay did not want to be bothered after a bad play and he sets alone because of that.

If I'm uneducated then I still say that he is pouting because a play went bad.

I realized that he needs to rest and relax but most QB's do not exclude their teammates.

I do not believe anyone can with 100% accuracy that jay does not have maturity delusion of grandeur issues.

NO ONE doubts his physical talent just what is above the shoulder pads.

Cutler has pretty much always been an introvert. Even Stefan Fatsis' book from 2006 touches on that issue. He's never really been "one of the guys" and apparently was only particularly close with Marshall and Scheffler.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
10-04-2010, 07:08 PM
Cutler has pretty much always been an introvert. Even Stefan Fatsis' book from 2006 touches on that issue. He's never really been "one of the guys" and apparently was only particularly close with Marshall and Scheffler.

I've heard that from a lot of people now I feel like.

It also seems like whenever Cutler loses he gets all upset, but he seems like he wants to blame anyone but himself. I haven't watched the press conferences or any crap like that but I don't know his expressions make him seem like a pain. Basically I really just don't like this guy and that's that.

atwater27
10-04-2010, 07:09 PM
What is he supposed to start crying after a pick and stop the game, grab a microphone and apologize to the people of Chicago?

gobroncsnv
10-04-2010, 07:13 PM
Everyone knows that the comparison would have favored Cutler had he been here instead of Chicago during the games sample in question. The system is quarterback friendly here. The funniest thing about the article is King's assumption that it was all Cutler's fault. He assumes that Josh wanted him here, and makes no mention of the Cassell situation (whom let's not forget he wanted over Cutler, much less Orton). So King's take is ignorant on the whole McDaniels/Cutler situation.



Or another way to look at it is to have competition at the position. Kinda funny how everybody dissed Jake for going into a funk when Cutler came in... and yet, when a trade INQUIRY was mentioned, look who went into a funk...
Shanahan's system is pretty qb friendly also... so again, what did Jay really prove here? I was excited to see it when Cutler came to town, but we also had a qb who had a pretty good season and we got to the conference championship... Jay was ok with himself being the "new kid in town", but couldn't deal with the idea that him having to compete for the job would be a good thing. Compare to how Orton has dealt with it.
Given the above, I thank Orton for being part of the deal that sent Jay packing. I will be shocked it Cutler ever makes much noise in the playoffs, as I don't think the pshrinkological fortitude is there.
Feel free to disagree, but that's how I look at things right now. Perhaps future events will change that view.

Northman
10-04-2010, 07:13 PM
Lol,

Yea, ive never seen a QB upset when he is getting his ass handed to him before.

rcsodak
10-04-2010, 07:26 PM
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cutler-sack8.jpg

LMAO!!!!!! :lol:

All that's missing is the slobber!

atwater27
10-04-2010, 07:30 PM
This board is full of infants.

rcsodak
10-04-2010, 07:31 PM
What is he supposed to start crying after a pick and stop the game, grab a microphone and apologize to the people of Chicago?

Think he already does the crying part. :rolleyes:

rcsodak
10-04-2010, 07:34 PM
This board is full of infants.

Says the guy with a puppet for an avy. :laugh:










:suckingthumb:

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 07:43 PM
Lets try again.. DT came about as Josh traded back several times with this years first choice.

It was OUR first pick this year.

the Bears other first pick that was scheduled for this year (10) was traded last year to pick up A smith in the second round, of this I am sure.

Nope, you're dead wrong. Research it. Pick from Bears was #11, traded back twice and up once, to eventually arrive at Thomas. Bronco's pick (they had a better record than the Bears last season, remember), would have been #14, and the Seahawks used it on Earl Thomas. But any way you slice it, the Broncos have wasted a lot of valuable draft capital the past two years.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 08:37 PM
King is a pretty big Patriot homer and is one of the few chosen ones to have broken through Belichick's Iron Curtain, so it's not real surprising that Josh probably felt a comfort level with him and would have favored him over the local guys, especially since some of them love to take on an antagonist (Kiszla, I'm looking at you) role.

Then of course there is woody the moron role.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 08:42 PM
Cutler has pretty much always been an introvert. Even Stefan Fatsis' book from 2006 touches on that issue. He's never really been "one of the guys" and apparently was only particularly close with Marshall and Scheffler.

His rookie season roomie was schefler and I'm sure he developed with marshall as he is a diva PITA and knew where his bread was buttered that marshall could make catches.

But introvert. I do not think so, he is all over the Chicago press, did a spread in GQ IIRC.

Other than press conferences where hard questions were being asked, he was pretty out going. From what I saw and that is limited to national feeds because I get NO local stuff where I live.

Lonestar
10-04-2010, 08:59 PM
Nope, you're dead wrong. Research it. Pick from Bears was #11, traded back twice and up once, to eventually arrive at Thomas. Bronco's pick (they had a better record than the Bears last season, remember), would have been #14, and the Seahawks used it on Earl Thomas. But any way you slice it, the Broncos have wasted a lot of valuable draft capital the past two years.

OK Ill give you that ONE being the bears choice. BUT IMO we have had two outstanding drafts

2010

All on the team except kirlew

Pick Player Pos Ht Wt College Grade* Fan Pick* Watch
Round 1, Pick 22 (22) (From Patriots) Demaryius Thomas WR 6'3" 224 Georgia Tech 8.4 -- Video
Pick Analysis: The Broncos opt for Demaryius Thomas over Dez Bryant as their future No.1 receiver. Though Bryant entered the draft as the more accomplished player, Thomas' big-play potential and solid character profile apparently led to Josh McDaniels' decision to favor the former Yellow Jacket. In making the decision to choose potential over production, McDaniels continues to place himself in the cross hairs with his controversial decisions.
Round 1, Pick 25 (25) (From Ravens) Tim Tebow QB 6'3" 236 Florida 8.0 -- Video
Pick Analysis: Josh McDaniels continues to place himself in the midst of controversy with his draft day decisions. By selecting Tim Tebow, the Broncos opted to bypass on Jimmy Clausen in favor of a quarterback more adept at running a spread offense. While critics will talk about Tebow's quirky mechanics and throwing motion, his character profile is in line with McDaniels' desire to create a strong locker room rooted in team-first principles. In addition, the presence of Kyle Orton and Brady Quinn ensures that Tebow will have the opportunity to fully develop as a passer before he takes the field in a season or two.
Round 2, Pick 13 (45) Zane Beadles OT 6'4" 310 Utah 7.0 -- Video
Pick Analysis: Josh McDaniels picks up Zane Beadles to provide quality depth to the offensive line. Although Beadles lined up at offensive tackle during his collegiate days, he will likely move inside to guard as a pro. With his size and strength, Beadles should help the Broncos improve their running game.
Round 3, Pick 16 (80) J.D. Walton C 6'3" 300 Baylor 5.3 -- Video
Pick Analysis: The Broncos continue to add talent and depth to their offensive line with the selection of J.D. Walton. He possesses solid overall skills, and has the strong character that Josh McDaniels desires in his locker room.
Round 3, Pick 23 (87) (From Eagles) Eric Decker WR 6'3" 217 Minnesota 7.7 -- Video
Pick Analysis: Josh McDaniels nabs an underrated receiver with immense potential in Eric Decker. The Minnesota star has outstanding hands and is a natural pass catcher with big-play potential. Although a foot injury prematurely ended his collegiate career, Decker has the skills to be a solid starter when healthy. Given his talent and solid work habits, he is a good pick up for the Broncos at this point.
Round 5, Pick 6 (137) (From Browns through Eagles) Perrish Cox CB 5'11" 195 Oklahoma State 6.9 -- Video
Pick Analysis: The Broncos take a chance on a talented cover man who fell down draft boards due to character concerns. In spite of his off-field woes, Perrish Cox has good skills and is a top-flight corner with the potential to emerge as a starter. Additionally, he is a dynamic returner with big-play skills in the open field. He could be a huge draft day sleeper for the Broncos.
Round 6, Pick 14 (183) Eric Olsen C 6'4" 306 Notre Dame 2.9 -- Video
Pick Analysis: The Broncos add a smart and instinctive pivot in Eric Olsen. The former Notre Dame standout processes information quickly, and has the ability to make quick reads on the move. Given Josh McDaniels' desire to rebuild the Broncos into a team full of competitive high character guys with outstanding intelligence, the selection of Olsen is sensible at this point.


Round 7, Pick 18 (225) (From Steelers through Buccaneers) Syd'quan Thompson CB 5'9" 186 California 5.8 -- Video
Pick Analysis: Syd'quan Thompson is one of the most physical cornerbacks in this draft. He's got quick feet, he's a tough kid and he competes on every single snap of every single game. The problem is that you can't run 4.7 or 4.75 at his size and expect the NFL to draft you high. He will compete for a roster spot because of his intangibles and his toughness.
Round 7, Pick 25 (232) (From Ravens through Buccaneers) Jammie Kirlew DE 6'1" 260 Indiana 2.5 -- Video
Pick Analysis: Another in the line of defensive ends that projects to outside linebacker in the 3-4, he will fight for playing time at that spot with the Broncos. He has talent as a pass rusher, and he could fit into Denver's rotation at some point in the future.

2009 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
1 18 Robert Ayers LB Tennessee
2 37 Alphonso Smith DB Wake Forest
2 48 Darcel McBath DB Texas Tech
2 64 Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
4 114 David Bruton DB Notre Dame
4 132 Seth Olsen G Iowa
5 141 Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
6 174 Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
7 225 Blake Schlueter C Texas Christian

Bust in DEN but playing well elsewhere

ON IR and dead



Starter on O D or ST

Sorry if you do not think our drafts are wasted.

We rarely had two in a row that produced as well as these last two have.

robert ethan
10-04-2010, 11:12 PM
You can point out a lot of players from the past two drafts still with the team, but look what the team went into those drafts with. Two extra firsts, two extra seconds, a third and a fifth for Cutler, Marshall, and Scheffler. That is what I mean by wasting draft capital. Long term I'm not confident that they will have a lot to show for what should have been great back to back drafts.

Benetto
10-04-2010, 11:57 PM
Orton is not better than Cutler...His team is, his coach is, and his mentality towards the game is...Cutler and Ortons skill set alone, is a world of difference. I wonder what kind of numbers Cutler and McD would have put up together if Cutler's balls would have dropped before he left Denver.

Lonestar
10-05-2010, 12:24 AM
You can point out a lot of players from the past two drafts still with the team, but look what the team went into those drafts with. Two extra firsts, two extra seconds, a third and a fifth for Cutler, Marshall, and Scheffler. That is what I mean by wasting draft capital. Long term I'm not confident that they will have a lot to show for what should have been great back to back drafts.

yep once again your correct. :laugh:


Looks to me that we just finished up rebuilding our OLINE with this years picks.

Not to mention renewing the WR core with DT and Deckers.

Picking up a FQB in Tebow.

Future CB replacement for either Champ or Goodman maybe both.

A bonafide RB that could be playing for awahile.

Replacements for the aging safety core.

and perhaps the steal in the draft last year in ayers.

Just curious is there anything you do like about what Josh has done.

It is not like he did not have a lot of bodies to replace. It was reported that 32 of our former players and of that 8 of the former starters on defense are not in the NFL any longer.

If your expecting this kid to walk on water you might want to go to church for that cause he is but a mere mortal.

But I think so far he has done a damned fine job.

19 players drafted of which 6 of the 10 are still on the squad from last year. One is dead and the other 3 are on other squads

8 of 9 are still on the squad from this year.

since it is not kosker to compare to past regimes I won't but I can assure you we did not have that many picks in past years. back to back and few if any stayed with teh team for more than 3 years.

we can agree to disagree on how many will stay but right now it is looking pretty good. Not even mentioning the FA we have brought in to fill gaping holes.

Bosco
10-05-2010, 01:00 AM
Orton is not better than Cutler...His team is, his coach is, and his mentality towards the game is...Cutler and Ortons skill set alone, is a world of difference. I wonder what kind of numbers Cutler and McD would have put up together if Cutler's balls would have dropped before he left Denver.

Cutler is a better physical talent than Orton, but that's about it.

tomjonesrocks
10-05-2010, 01:16 AM
Orton's exceeded expectations and you have to give him credit. He's also seems a decent guy and if I were to pick one to have a beer with it would be Orton.

But Cutler can win a game for you with his legs and arm in a way Orton will never be able to. Stats don't tell the whole story IMO.

Elevation inc
10-05-2010, 03:51 AM
best post of this whole thread WAS NTL's and its been virtually ignored....go figure......

broncophan
10-05-2010, 06:16 AM
Orton's exceeded expectations and you have to give him credit. He's also seems a decent guy and if I were to pick one to have a beer with it would be Orton.

But Cutler can win a game for you with his legs and arm in a way Orton will never be able to. Stats don't tell the whole story IMO.

Just as easily.....Cutler can LOSE a game for you with his arm as well....he has proven that ......you take the good with the bad with Cutler......and the "bad" part you take with Cutler....is a helluva lot worse than the "bad" you take with Orton......and Orton WANTS to be here.......easy decision....I'll take Orton

rcsodak
10-05-2010, 08:15 AM
Orton's exceeded expectations and you have to give him credit. He's also seems a decent guy and if I were to pick one to have a beer with it would be Orton.

But Cutler can win a game for you with his legs and arm in a way Orton will never be able to. Stats don't tell the whole story IMO.
Big difference between can and does.
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SOCALORADO.
10-05-2010, 08:15 AM
http://www.stephencjensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/brick-loud-noises-b.jpg

GEM
10-05-2010, 10:17 AM
LMAO!!!!!! :lol:

All that's missing is the slobber!

I can't stand Cutler, but RC, that was pretty low. One of my boys just got a concussion in a game last night...it's not something to make fun of.

SOCALORADO.
10-05-2010, 10:24 AM
I can't stand Cutler, but RC, that was pretty low. One of my boys just got a concussion in a game last night...it's not something to make fun of.

Ive had many concussions, relax.
Once when i was like 11 i was on the playground at school during school hours and someone pushed me off the jungle gym from behind, i fell and was knocked completely out! I woke up like an hour later, and the entire playground was empty. No one. Every school kid and every teacher that was out there just left me, unconcious face down in the sand pit! I woke up and just sat there dazed.
LOL!!

rcsodak
10-05-2010, 10:25 AM
I can't stand Cutler, but RC, that was pretty low. One of my boys just got a concussion in a game last night...it's not something to make fun of.
I'm sorry about yor son, G. And if it had been a serious injury to cutler I wouldn't have commented as I did.
But c'mon....that pic was PRICELESS! :d
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BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 10:36 AM
Ive had many concussions, relax.
Once when i was like 11 i was on the playground at school during school hours and someone pushed me off the jungle gym from behind, i fell and was knocked completely out! I woke up like an hour later, and the entire playground was empty. No one. Every school kid and every teacher that was out there just left me, unconcious face down in the sand pit! I woke up and just sat there dazed.
LOL!!

once you get one, it's easier to get subsequent ones.


I just read your post and couldn't help but laugh and I feel bad for that

SOCALORADO.
10-05-2010, 10:43 AM
once you get one, it's easier to get subsequent ones.


I just read your post and couldn't help but laugh and I feel bad for that

How great is that!?!?! LOL!! I wake up and the entire school looks empty.
Whats even funnier is i walked backed to my class in a daze, and the teacher still didnt know what was wrong! She saw me and just sent me to the nurses office where they just made me sit for like an hour! I never even went to the hospital! I ended up just going back to class, and then i went home and told my parents and they just said "Thats nice, honey. Do your homework, em kay!?!?!"

I have had like 3 real concussions since!

BroncoWave
10-05-2010, 10:55 AM
This board is full of infants.

Says the person who whines and moans every time someone doesn't bow at the feet of the greatness that is Jay Cutler. The sooner you get over the fact that most people on this board have a negative view of Jay Cutler the better off you will be. Constantly whining and crying about those who choose to criticize him isn't going to change anything or make anything better.

GEM
10-05-2010, 11:19 AM
Ive had many concussions, relax.
Once when i was like 11 i was on the playground at school during school hours and someone pushed me off the jungle gym from behind, i fell and was knocked completely out! I woke up like an hour later, and the entire playground was empty. No one. Every school kid and every teacher that was out there just left me, unconcious face down in the sand pit! I woke up and just sat there dazed.
LOL!!

That shit just freaks me out. It's his 2nd of the season and I would like to line up his lineman and take a free shot at each one of them because they refuse to do their job to protect him and the QB. He got up from the play and immediately went off the field to puke...knew it was a concussion.

To RC:

I don't find the pic funny at all. It's the game of football, this shit happens, but after 9 of those that game and many more previous, Cutler's brain is going to look like that of the Steeler's center from the 70's. Cutler is on my garbage list, but the hate is not so deep that I wish dementia on him when he's up there in age.

rcsodak
10-05-2010, 12:09 PM
That shit just freaks me out. It's his 2nd of the season and I would like to line up his lineman and take a free shot at each one of them because they refuse to do their job to protect him and the QB. He got up from the play and immediately went off the field to puke...knew it was a concussion.

To RC:

I don't find the pic funny at all. It's the game of football, this shit happens, but after 9 of those that game and many more previous, Cutler's brain is going to look like that of the Steeler's center from the 70's. Cutler is on my garbage list, but the hate is not so deep that I wish dementia on him when he's up there in age.
Again, G, sorry about your son. But they've already come out and said cutler was ok. The last sack is where his head hit the turf. As far as I know, I don't think he has Roethlisberger Syndrome so at least coeds in Chi are safe.
But the look on his face!!! LmAo!
*sorry G.*
:couch:
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Lonestar
10-05-2010, 12:09 PM
That shit just freaks me out. It's his 2nd of the season and I would like to line up his lineman and take a free shot at each one of them because they refuse to do their job to protect him and the QB. He got up from the play and immediately went off the field to puke...knew it was a concussion.

To RC:

I don't find the pic funny at all. It's the game of football, this shit happens, but after 9 of those that game and many more previous, Cutler's brain is going to look like that of the Steeler's center from the 70's. Cutler is on my garbage list, but the hate is not so deep that I wish dementia on him when he's up there in age.


While I understand YOUR concern with your son and Feel bad about that. I would not wish that on any kid. I'm hoping that if it is the third one this year that you would take him out of football as that is way to many.

That said .

jay is another story altogether, he chose to go to the bears he resigned a HUGE contract, knowing that his oline, coaching and ownership is garbage, so it was about the money nothing else.

I have no sympathy what so ever for jay cutler, karma is a bitch.

Ravage!!!
10-05-2010, 12:12 PM
weird.. I thought he was traded to the Bears.

rcsodak
10-05-2010, 12:18 PM
I had a concussion back before we knew about them. Back in '79. A co-worker's kungfu brother brother pulled a chuck norris on me and planted his right foot to the left side of my face.
I came to in the bathroom, which was a good place to be when the vomitting started. I've had another since, but it was the reult of me, alcohol and a swimming pool. Btu os afr v'Ie dah on smpmoyts.
:coffee:
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BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 01:07 PM
best post of this whole thread WAS NTL's and its been virtually ignored....go figure......

You'll learn to ignore NTL in due time too

BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 01:10 PM
Cutler always looks sour. He probably looks like he's pouting after having sex for 2 hours.

If you got banged by Greg Olsen for 2 hours, you'd be frowning too I bet

BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 01:12 PM
Cutler has pretty much always been an introvert. Even Stefan Fatsis' book from 2006 touches on that issue. He's never really been "one of the guys" and apparently was only particularly close with Marshall and Scheffler.

that's interesting. I did not know that. he must be somewhat of a maverick.

BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 01:24 PM
How great is that!?!?! LOL!! I wake up and the entire school looks empty.
Whats even funnier is i walked backed to my class in a daze, and the teacher still didnt know what was wrong! She saw me and just sent me to the nurses office where they just made me sit for like an hour! I never even went to the hospital! I ended up just going back to class, and then i went home and told my parents and they just said "Thats nice, honey. Do your homework, em kay!?!?!"

I have had like 3 real concussions since!

still kinda funny, but man, that's pretty bad if you were knocked out and you didn't get looked at.

I remember talking to a guy that was concussed a few times. He said the feeling is euphoric when it happens, but that you get really bad headaches and you'd often puke afterwards.

SOCALORADO.
10-05-2010, 01:36 PM
still kinda funny, but man, that's pretty bad if you were knocked out and you didn't get looked at.

I remember talking to a guy that was concussed a few times. He said the feeling is euphoric when it happens, but that you get really bad headaches and you'd often puke afterwards.

Amazingly, that time i didnt puke.
But i have had a few, and i have puked a couple times.
And i get migraines, with an aura which warns me its coming, and i have a constant ringing im my left ear. I am used to it now.

Life playing sports i guess.

BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 01:38 PM
Amazingly, that time i didnt puke.
But i have had a few, and i have puked a couple times.
And i get migraines, with an aura which warns me its coming, and i have a constant ringing im my left ear. I am used to it now.

Life playing sports i guess.

yeah, I guess the puking came later for the guy I talked with too. Migraines sounds excruciating.

Tned
10-05-2010, 01:49 PM
Says the person who whines and moans every time someone doesn't bow at the feet of the greatness that is Jay Cutler. The sooner you get over the fact that most people on this board have a negative view of Jay Cutler the better off you will be. Constantly whining and crying about those who choose to criticize him isn't going to change anything or make anything better.

Sounds like a great topic for a poll... ;)

BroncoNut
10-05-2010, 01:59 PM
did I read it correctly in a post that cutler's had 9 concussions?

Tned
10-05-2010, 02:04 PM
did I read it correctly in a post that cutler's had 9 concussions?

I think the post was about 9 sacks on Sunday night. If there was one that said he's had 9 concussions, I missed it.

SOCALORADO.
10-05-2010, 02:07 PM
yeah, I guess the puking came later for the guy I talked with too. Migraines sounds excruciating.

Thats why LT wears that sunvisor on his helmet, even when he plays at night. Apparently he gets migraines, i guess the lights in the stadium mess with his vision.
Then theres Terell Davis.

rcsodak
10-05-2010, 02:20 PM
Sounds like a great topic for a poll... ;)
you're getting better at that pot stirring, T! :D
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GEM
10-05-2010, 02:55 PM
Again, G, sorry about your son. But they've already come out and said cutler was ok. The last sack is where his head hit the turf. As far as I know, I don't think he has Roethlisberger Syndrome so at least coeds in Chi are safe.
But the look on his face!!! LmAo!
*sorry G.*
:couch:
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My kiddo is ok, doesn't mean I want some dude from the other team pointing at him, laughing and wishing he were drooling on himself. I'm sorry, RC....it's still tasteless.

GEM
10-05-2010, 02:56 PM
While I understand YOUR concern with your son and Feel bad about that. I would not wish that on any kid. I'm hoping that if it is the third one this year that you would take him out of football as that is way to many.

That said .

jay is another story altogether, he chose to go to the bears he resigned a HUGE contract, knowing that his oline, coaching and ownership is garbage, so it was about the money nothing else.

I have no sympathy what so ever for jay cutler, karma is a bitch.

The fact that he went somewhere else, signed a huge contract, etc...has nothing to do with getting joy out of seeing the guy get a concussion. That reaps of having no class. So while you lay your stigma on the guy for doing this or that, just remember that you are no better.

Lonestar
10-05-2010, 03:01 PM
The fact that he went somewhere else, signed a huge contract, etc...has nothing to do with getting joy out of seeing the guy get a concussion. That reaps of having no class. So while you lay your stigma on the guy for doing this or that, just remember that you are no better.

I also said nothing about have joy seeing him like that


Originally Posted by Jrwiz View Post
While I understand YOUR concern with your son and Feel bad about that. I would not wish that on any kid. I'm hoping that if it is the third one this year that you would take him out of football, as that is way to many.

That said .

jay is another story altogether, he chose to go to the bears he resigned a HUGE contract, knowing that his oline, coaching and ownership is garbage, so it was about the money nothing else.

I have no sympathy what so ever for jay cutler, karma is a bitch.

I think your reading way to much into my post above.

GEM
10-05-2010, 03:03 PM
I also said nothing about have joy seeing him like that



I think your reading way to much into my post above.

Karma's a bitch. He deserved a concussion because he chose money in Chi vs. playing in Denver. Did I get that wrong somewhere? :confused:

Tned
10-05-2010, 03:25 PM
you're getting better at that pot stirring, T! :D
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Let me follow your to Royal's page and respond there... ;)

Tned
10-05-2010, 03:25 PM
Karma's a bitch. He deserved a concussion because he chose money in Chi vs. playing in Denver. Did I get that wrong somewhere? :confused:

There's a Jake comparison here, but I am going to pass on it... :lol:

Lonestar
10-05-2010, 03:38 PM
Karma's a bitch. He deserved a concussion because he chose money in Chi vs. playing in Denver. Did I get that wrong somewhere? :confused:

NO he choose money to play behind a LOUSY at best oline, with poor coaching. He was more interested in money than his personal well being.

FWIW he assumed the risk of getting laid out when he signed the contracts both in DEN and CHI, now he pays for it in blood, sweat and now head issues.

Lonestar
10-05-2010, 03:39 PM
There's a Jake comparison here, but I am going to pass on it... :lol:

actually Jake chose to retire than take a weekly beating. I guess that would be it.

And married Karma good trade IMHO.

Ravage!!!
10-05-2010, 03:50 PM
again.. wasn't Jay traded? How is it he 'chose' where he went? :lol:

Tned
10-05-2010, 06:01 PM
actually Jake chose to retire than take a weekly beating. I guess that would be it.

And married Karma good trade IMHO.

And screwed the Broncos. Fist he screwed the Broncos when he folded like well crafted origami once he had to compete with Jay. Clearly he couldn't care if the Broncos won or lost. Then, he screwed the Broncos by retiring, because he couldn't deal with competing for a starting job in Tampa.

Anyway, I shouldn't have brought up Jake, the choke, Plummer. This is the wrong thread to discuss that worthless excuse for a QB.

arapaho2
10-05-2010, 06:02 PM
Karma's a bitch. He deserved a concussion because he chose money in Chi vs. playing in Denver. Did I get that wrong somewhere? :confused:


really?...seems tome if the coach didnt try to blindside him after a probowl season he probably would stil be here
secondly he was stil under contract...chicago chose to open discussions and extend him after he was traded to them...he didnt go there for the money...he was traded

selective memory is a bitch sometimes:rolleyes:

topscribe
10-05-2010, 06:08 PM
really?...seems tome if the coach didnt try to blindside him after a probowl season he probably would stil be here
secondly he was stil under contract...chicago chose to open discussions and extend him after he was traded to them...he didnt go there for the money...he was traded

selective memory is a bitch sometimes:rolleyes:

Baloney, my friend. Cutler cried like a newborn over the deal. So Xanders and
McDaniels were inappropriate. So Cutler should have been a big boy about it. I
do not remember any trade demands from Elway, even thought Reeves was
exploring trade options with him at one time and even drafted a QB in the first
round while Elway was on the roster.

Who cares who did whom wrong? Someone had to be an adult over it, and it
certainly wasn't Cutler . . .

-----

arapaho2
10-05-2010, 06:15 PM
Baloney, my friend. Cutler cried like a newborn over the deal. So Xanders and
McDaniels were inappropriate. So Cutler should have been a big boy about it. I
do not remember any trade demands from Elway, even thought Reeves was
exploring trade options with him at one time and even drafted a QB in the first
round while Elway was on the roster.

Who cares who did whom wrong? Someone had to be an adult over it, and it
certainly wasn't Cutler . . .

-----

once again selective memory is a bitch...reeves drafted the elway replacement maddox, reeves then explored tradeing elway...elway cried to bowlen.."its elway or reeves"...reeves was fired

your getting old my friend memory seems to be the first thing to go..other than the sexdrive

Bosco
10-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Baloney, my friend. Cutler cried like a newborn over the deal. So Xanders and
McDaniels were inappropriate. So Cutler should have been a big boy about it. I
do not remember any trade demands from Elway, even thought Reeves was
exploring trade options with him at one time and even drafted a QB in the first
round while Elway was on the roster.

Who cares who did whom wrong? Someone had to be an adult over it, and it
certainly wasn't Cutler . . .

-----

Good to see you back buddy. I hadn't seen you posting much.

Day1BroncoFan
10-05-2010, 06:23 PM
The undeniable fact is Orton is playing better than culter is right now. Doesn't matter why, it's just a fact. So cutler got sacked 3 more times than Orton, big deal. I hope cutler is OK after the concussion but I'm glad Orton is our QB and not cutler.

And I don't care who's fault it is or why cutler is gone, I'm just glad it worked out the way it did. I wasn't happy about the trade for Orton at first but he is proving himself.

atwater27
10-05-2010, 06:26 PM
Baloney, my friend. Cutler cried like a newborn over the deal. So Xanders and
McDaniels were inappropriate. So Cutler should have been a big boy about it. I
do not remember any trade demands from Elway, even thought Reeves was
exploring trade options with him at one time and even drafted a QB in the first
round while Elway was on the roster.

Who cares who did whom wrong? Someone had to be an adult over it, and it
certainly wasn't Cutler . . .

-----

Talk to Indy about that crybaby that they had to trade back in the early 80's.

topscribe
10-05-2010, 06:27 PM
once again selective memory is a bitch...reeves drafted the elway replacement maddox, reeves then explored tradeing elway...elway cried to bowlen.."its elway or reeves"...reeves was fired

your getting old my friend memory seems to be the first thing to go..other than the sexdrive

I resemble that remark.

But there's a whole lot more to the story than that, which I'm sure you know.
Anyway, I don't think either of us wants this to slip into an Elway discussion . . .



Talk to Indy about that crybaby that they had to trade back in the early 80's.

You were totally glossing over the whole situation.

-----

Ravage!!!
10-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Who cares who did whom wrong? Someone had to be an adult over it, and it
certainly wasn't Cutler . . .

-----

certainly wasn't McD neither. Both showed their immaturity in the ordeal.

topscribe
10-05-2010, 09:51 PM
certainly wasn't McD neither. Both showed their immaturity in the ordeal.

It certainly was not handled well all around, that's for sure, although I wouldn't
classify McDaniels' part in it as "immaturity" so much as, maybe, inexperience
and even indiscretion?

-----

GEM
10-05-2010, 10:36 PM
really?...seems tome if the coach didnt try to blindside him after a probowl season he probably would stil be here
secondly he was stil under contract...chicago chose to open discussions and extend him after he was traded to them...he didnt go there for the money...he was traded

selective memory is a bitch sometimes:rolleyes:

I wasn't making that claim Rap....I was trying to understand if JR really went there.

TimTebow15MVP
10-05-2010, 11:14 PM
cutler said it was a dream come true to leave denver and end up in chicago. i bet hes thinking those dreams were nightmares.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/broncosfreaks/56516630.jpg

Lonestar
10-05-2010, 11:28 PM
And screwed the Broncos. Fist he screwed the Broncos when he folded like well crafted origami once he had to compete with Jay. Clearly he couldn't care if the Broncos won or lost. Then, he screwed the Broncos by retiring, because he couldn't deal with competing for a starting job in Tampa.

Anyway, I shouldn't have brought up Jake, the choke, Plummer. This is the wrong thread to discuss that worthless excuse for a QB.

clearly you and I will enver agree on this as I saw it another way

Mike clearly stabbed him in the back by drafting jay after Jake had his best year ever. Installed an offense that was totally out of Jakes skill set and designed for wionder boy.

As for Jake not caring if they won or lost I suspect you were not watching the games very well as he gave it his best shot hustling around trying to make plays when IMO others gave up in games.

as for screwing the broncos He told his friends on the squad the last game was his last game as he was retiring. only to have mike screw him by trading him to the Bucs. way to turn the knife mike after having the OC set him up for failure.

SO yes you and I will never agree on Jake/jay and how it ended for Jake in DEN. I think he got the last laugh by marrying a hottie and being set for life with all the coin mike gave him each time mike got into trouble with the cap.

Whos the dummy on that one? He is set for life loving the hell out of life in Montana and playing golf and racket ball.

Elevation inc
10-06-2010, 02:10 AM
certainly wasn't McD neither. Both showed their immaturity in the ordeal.

i wish everyone would have this viewpoint right here, becasue its closest to being correct......:beer:

arapaho2
10-06-2010, 05:22 PM
clearly you and I will enver agree on this as I saw it another way

Mike clearly stabbed him in the back by drafting jay after Jake had his best year ever. Installed an offense that was totally out of Jakes skill set and designed for wionder boy.

As for Jake not caring if they won or lost I suspect you were not watching the games very well as he gave it his best shot hustling around trying to make plays when IMO others gave up in games.

as for screwing the broncos He told his friends on the squad the last game was his last game as he was retiring. only to have mike screw him by trading him to the Bucs. way to turn the knife mike after having the OC set him up for failure.

SO yes you and I will never agree on Jake/jay and how it ended for Jake in DEN. I think he got the last laugh by marrying a hottie and being set for life with all the coin mike gave him each time mike got into trouble with the cap.

Whos the dummy on that one? He is set for life loving the hell out of life in Montana and playing golf and racket ball.


by that then the dasterdly asswad mcd stabbed orton in the back after his best career season by throwing all the eggs in one basket and drafting tebow...right?:coffee:

or does that only apply to shanny and plummer

BCJ
10-07-2010, 03:59 AM
King could have written this article last year. Also in the obvious news, We landed on the moon, we invaded Iraq, the British invasion came and Raiders still suck. Thanks Peter for the insight that us Broncos fans already knew.

TimTebow15MVP
10-07-2010, 06:08 AM
#2 in 20+ completions with 22
#1 in 40+ completions with 5
#1 in yards...He has set an NFL record for passing yards in 4 games and in 5 games going back to last year
#6 in completion % at 68%
#4 in average at 8.1
#2 at 1st's with 67
and he is at a very good 97 rating

ortons doing his thing

Tned
10-07-2010, 06:57 AM
#2 in 20+ completions with 22
#1 in 40+ completions with 5
#1 in yards...He has set an NFL record for passing yards in 4 games and in 5 games going back to last year
#6 in completion % at 68%
#4 in average at 8.1
#2 at 1st's with 67
and he is at a very good 97 rating

ortons doing his thing

I like the way those rankings looke!! :salute:

Dirk
10-07-2010, 08:00 AM
#2 in 20+ completions with 22
#1 in 40+ completions with 5
#1 in yards...He has set an NFL record for passing yards in 4 games and in 5 games going back to last year
#6 in completion % at 68%
#4 in average at 8.1
#2 at 1st's with 67
and he is at a very good 97 rating

ortons doing his thing


Now if we can get our running game around those numbers. :behindsofa:

Jagsbch
10-07-2010, 08:37 AM
For some reason I can not access my black hole threads, so it looks like I am forced to post this reply here...:rolleyes:


#2 in 20+ completions with 22
#1 in 40+ completions with 5

(WR yacs) Namely the play at the line of scrimage that went for 41 yards by Eddie Royal. Or 53 yards by Moreno a few weeks back...:elefant:


#1 in yards

100 yards last week where the result of passes thrown at or behind the line of scrimmage. :elefant:


He has set an NFL record for passing yards in 4 games and in 5 games going back to last year.

Ever hear of a guy called Kurt Warner he owns the first 4 game record.:elefant:


#6 in completion % at 68%

That is what happens when 37 of your checking down to your high percentage passes rather than taking chances with passes that aren't. This is what is killing us in the red zone to the point we have made 10 trips down there in th epast two weeks with not a single TD to show for it.

37 of Ortons passes 2 weeks ago where thrown just 3 yards on average past the line of scrimmage, 75 the past 2 weeks where thrown 3-5 yards from the line of scrimmage.

Ortons high percentage dink and dunk passess that have allowed about 125 plays to be executed within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage when you include the running game the past two weeks.

Now I ask you this, if your Baltimore and you see Orton only throw the ball 20 yards and beyond only 6 times in the past 2 weeks, are you going to spread you rdefense for the 6 plays out of 108 passing attempts or are you going to stack the box in an attempt to kill the 75 passing attempts being made 3-5 yards from the line of scrimmage?



#4 in average at 8.1 Again this is the result of Yards after the catch, Orton is a product of a phenomenal scheme as well as WR corp.


#2at 1st's with 67 Orton is 11 of 40 in 3rd down conversions 3 out of the last 4 games.



and he is at a very good 97 rating, ortons doing his thing

I love how orton gets all this credit. LMAO

That thing just so happens to be making not only McDaniels passing offense on dimensional, with his check it down to the high percentage play lack of clutch performance, that has the rushing offense completely shut down because opponents who study film know that they do not have to stretch the offense to shut Orton down.

Our WR corp have been amazing so far this season, while being forced to make one spectacular clutch play after another in clutch situations to make up for Ortons lack of clutch performances.

Orton in tight games coming into the Titans game, had averaged only 15 points the past 13 games since the Ravens of last season.

Orton was well on his way to maintaining that average with the sack going into 2:00 left into the game that put us 25 yards out from being able to get a first down, before Ortons hail Mary pass that fell severely short forcing Gaffney to come back to the ball and have the defender run into him in the proccess. Orton was saved by a penalty and defender not looking back for a sure INT.

Both of Ortons TD passes where the result of having drives kept alive by penalties, the phantom roughing the passer penalty on 3rd down after Orton threw the ball incomplete was the other.

The thing about Cutler and Orton that is the same is they both have issues with taking sacks rather than making the hot read and getting the ball out sooner.

Cutler is 3-1 thanks to a concussion that limited him to 11 attempts,
Orton is 2-2. I think Orton has one of the most horrendous wind ups I have ever seen. If I had to choose who was better not that I would want either on my team it would have to be Cutler. Orton is a guy that either has to be carried by his team or he is going to suck unless of course the officials carry him.

SOCALORADO.
10-07-2010, 09:02 AM
Dear jagsbtch,

http://www.tremendousupsidepotential.com/images/orton9.jpg

BroncoNut
10-07-2010, 09:10 AM
Jagsbsch. I'll access your black hole for you

silkamilkamonico
10-07-2010, 09:23 AM
100 yards last week where the result of passes thrown at or behind the line of scrimmage. :elefant:


Yes. this is whaty happens when you can complete a short pass. Tm Tebow should take note.



37 of Ortons passes 2 weeks ago where thrown just 3 yards on average past the line of scrimmage, 75 the past 2 weeks where thrown 3-5 yards from the line of scrimmage.

Ortons high percentage dink and dunk passess that have allowed about 125 plays to be executed within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage when you include the running game the past two weeks.

Why are you trying to take credit away from Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, who have similiar stats in short yardage throws and scrimmage plays?



Now I ask you this, if your Baltimore and you see Orton only throw the ball 20 yards and beyond only 6 times in the past 2 weeks, are you going to spread you rdefense for the 6 plays out of 108 passing attempts or are you going to stack the box in an attempt to kill the 75 passing attempts being made 3-5 yards from the line of scrimmage?

Orton has more down the field throws than 90% of the other starting Qb's. Do you even know what you are trying to argue?


in average at 8.1 Again this is the result of Yards after the catch, Orton is a product of a phenomenal scheme as well as WR corp.

This is what happens when you can complete a short yardage throw, and are accurate enough to hit your WR in stride. Tim Tebow should take note.







Cutler is 3-1 thanks to a concussion that limited him to 11 attempts,
Orton is 2-2. I think Orton has one of the most horrendous wind ups I have ever seen. If I had to choose who was better not that I would want either on my team it would have to be Cutler. Orton is a guy that either has to be carried by his team or he is going to suck unless of course the officials carry him.

Greta argument here. Nevermind the fact that Cutler beat the Packers thanks to Hester's special teams return, when Cutler wasn't even out on the field.

You're boy toy Tebow just does not deserve to be playing right now. you just need to deal with that fact.

TimTebow15MVP
10-07-2010, 11:13 AM
For some reason I can not access my black hole threads, so it looks like I am forced to post this reply here...:rolleyes:



(WR yacs) Namely the play at the line of scrimage that went for 41 yards by Eddie Royal. Or 53 yards by Moreno a few weeks back...:elefant:



100 yards last week where the result of passes thrown at or behind the line of scrimmage. :elefant:



Ever hear of a guy called Kurt Warner he owns the first 4 game record.:elefant:



That is what happens when 37 of your checking down to your high percentage passes rather than taking chances with passes that aren't. This is what is killing us in the red zone to the point we have made 10 trips down there in th epast two weeks with not a single TD to show for it.

37 of Ortons passes 2 weeks ago where thrown just 3 yards on average past the line of scrimmage, 75 the past 2 weeks where thrown 3-5 yards from the line of scrimmage.

Ortons high percentage dink and dunk passess that have allowed about 125 plays to be executed within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage when you include the running game the past two weeks.

Now I ask you this, if your Baltimore and you see Orton only throw the ball 20 yards and beyond only 6 times in the past 2 weeks, are you going to spread you rdefense for the 6 plays out of 108 passing attempts or are you going to stack the box in an attempt to kill the 75 passing attempts being made 3-5 yards from the line of scrimmage?


in average at 8.1 Again this is the result of Yards after the catch, Orton is a product of a phenomenal scheme as well as WR corp.

at 1st's with 67 Orton is 11 of 40 in 3rd down conversions 3 out of the last 4 games.




I love how orton gets all this credit. LMAO

That thing just so happens to be making not only McDaniels passing offense on dimensional, with his check it down to the high percentage play lack of clutch performance, that has the rushing offense completely shut down because opponents who study film know that they do not have to stretch the offense to shut Orton down.

Our WR corp have been amazing so far this season, while being forced to make one spectacular clutch play after another in clutch situations to make up for Ortons lack of clutch performances.

Orton in tight games coming into the Titans game, had averaged only 15 points the past 13 games since the Ravens of last season.

Orton was well on his way to maintaining that average with the sack going into 2:00 left into the game that put us 25 yards out from being able to get a first down, before Ortons hail Mary pass that fell severely short forcing Gaffney to come back to the ball and have the defender run into him in the proccess. Orton was saved by a penalty and defender not looking back for a sure INT.

Both of Ortons TD passes where the result of having drives kept alive by penalties, the phantom roughing the passer penalty on 3rd down after Orton threw the ball incomplete was the other.

The thing about Cutler and Orton that is the same is they both have issues with taking sacks rather than making the hot read and getting the ball out sooner.

Cutler is 3-1 thanks to a concussion that limited him to 11 attempts,
Orton is 2-2. I think Orton has one of the most horrendous wind ups I have ever seen. If I had to choose who was better not that I would want either on my team it would have to be Cutler. Orton is a guy that either has to be carried by his team or he is going to suck unless of course the officials carry him.

Dude you really tried your best, I dont know whose mind you thought you were going to change making such a long pointless post but it wont be mines. If you would chose cutler over orton then your just as dumb as jerry angelo.

And dont talk about a wind up when your like the biggest tebow groupie/florida gator fan.

Bottom line i dont care what you say orton is performing at a high level. this is the same offense tebow would be runnning. screens, down the field passes but i got a feeling tebows wind up wont matter with you because hes just so awesome huh? i guess tebow throwing screens to royal in the offense is better huh because its tebow throwing the 5 yard pass huh?

anyways your dismissed. :coffee:

T.K.O.
10-07-2010, 11:59 AM
look what i did with your sig ^:laugh:

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/broncod63/top_blog_1008072-1.jpg?t=1286470660

Jagsbch
10-07-2010, 12:25 PM
Jagsbsch. I'll access your black hole for you

:eek:

broncobryce
10-07-2010, 06:49 PM
Madden game also thinks Orton is better, they raised him to an 86, and dropped Cutler to 84.

Jagsbch
10-07-2010, 07:50 PM
Bottom line i dont care what you say orton is performing at a high level. this is the same offense tebow would be runnning. screens, down the field passes but i got a feeling tebows wind up wont matter with you because hes just so awesome huh? i guess tebow throwing screens to royal in the offense is better huh because its tebow throwing the 5 yard pass huh?

anyways your dismissed. :coffee:
Yes he should be worried considering how his dink and dunk passes are what is ailing the line the most considering all the pressure it adds to it.

Having had 75 passes in the past 2 weeks being thrown 5 yards from the line of scrimage, well that significantly impacts the opponents game plan, which in turn impacts the line.

Orton is on a passing path of self destruction, with every throw he draws opponents closer and closer to him...

Granted there are continuity issues still being worked out, considering how like spark plugs in an engine, it seems they all fireing well, its just that each have been intermittently misfiring here and there and this ought to be expected because there is not enough said about continuity on the line.

Banged up players have just been brought back together, they will need more than two games to gell, especially with the two new players making their starting debuts this season.

The lack of continuity, and Ortons 6 passes beyond the 20 yard line the past two weeks are killing the rushing offense.

Unless Orton can establish a deep passing threat, thing will get much worst before they get better...

At this point only Tebow's clutch play and deep passing game can help this offense get out of its one dimensional rut.

And the rate Orton is playing you might as well say, hey its Tebow Time... Ravens? Jets? Seeing 75 pass plays 5 yards from the line of scrimmage the past two weeks add to that about 50 runs, that is a game plan that has 125 plays 5 yards past the line of scrimmage?

Orton better get life insurance, last week 6 sacks against the Titans, what in the hell are we to expect between last seasons and this seasons No. 1 offense in the next two weeks?


Like I said and this bears repeating, Orton is dead man walking, he is on a self destructive passing path, with every throw he draws opponents closer and closer to taking him out, and that trash talking session towards the Titans has him exuding fear, and that is not what you want a fierce beast of an opponent to be smelling.

It is what it is...

6 passes for 20 yards or more in the past 2 weeks out of 108 passing attempts will have these two opponents looking like this...

http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=howlingforjustice.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhowlingforjustice.files.wordpress .com%2F2010%2F03%2Fwolf-pack-howling.jpg&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fhowlingforjustice.wordpress.com% 2Ftag%2Fwolves-in-the-crossfire%2F

topscribe
10-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Yes he should be worried considering how his dink and dunk passes are what is ailing the line the most considering all the pressure it adds to it.

Having had 75 passes in the past 2 weeks being thrown 5 yards from the line of scrimage, well that significantly impacts the opponents game plan, which in turn impacts the line.

Orton is on a passing path of self destruction, with every throw he draws opponents closer and closer to him...

Granted there are continuity issues still being worked out, considering how like spark plugs in an engine, it seems they all fireing well, its just that each have been intermittently misfiring here and there and this ought to be expected because there is not enough said about continuity on the line.

Banged up players have just been brought back together, they will need more than two games to gell, especially with the two new players making their starting debuts this season.

The lack of continuity, and Ortons 6 passes beyond the 20 yard line the past two weeks are killing the rushing offense.

Unless Orton can establish a deep passing threat, thing will get much worst before they get better...

At this point only Tebow's clutch play and deep passing game can help this offense get out of its one dimensional rut.

And the rate Orton is playing you might as well say, hey its Tebow Time... Ravens? Jets? Seeing 75 pass plays 5 yards from the line of scrimmage the past two weeks add to that about 50 runs, that is a game plan that has 125 plays 5 yards past the line of scrimmage?

Orton better get life insurance, last week 6 sacks against the Titans, what in the hell are we to expect between last seasons and this seasons No. 1 offense in the next two weeks?


Like I said and this bears repeating, Orton is dead man walking, he is on a self destructive passing path, with every throw he draws opponents closer and closer to taking him out, and that trash talking session towards the Titans has him exuding fear, and that is not what you want a fierce beast of an opponent to be smelling.

It is what it is...

6 passes for 20 yards or more in the past 2 weeks out of 108 passing attempts will have these two opponents looking like this...

http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=howlingforjustice.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhowlingforjustice.files.wordpress .com%2F2010%2F03%2Fwolf-pack-howling.jpg&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fhowlingforjustice.wordpress.com% 2Ftag%2Fwolves-in-the-crossfire%2F

Orton is #1 in the league at 40+ yards, #2 in the league at 20+ yards.

BTW, I checked and there is actually a book titled "Football for Dummies" available.

Might be a good investment for you . . .

-----

Jagsbch
10-07-2010, 08:08 PM
Orton is #1 in the league at 40+ yards, #2 in the league at 20+ yards.

BTW, I checked and there is actually a book titled "Football for Dummies" available.

Might be a good investment for you . . .

-----

Only a dummie would attribute WR YAC'S to what a QB does with the ball, it might be credit to him on paper but not on film. When you have the film their is no gray area making Orton out to be a deep passing threat, especially when you have receivers like Eddie Royal catch the ball behind the line of scrimmage and run it for a 41 yard gain. Or Moreno catch it behind the line and take it for a 53 yard gain. :hand:

Now is that Orton throwing it for 100 yards or zero yards past the line of scrimmage? Stats are only as good as the interpreter, don't let them make a liar out of you.

T.K.O.
10-07-2010, 08:12 PM
jags: "And the rate Orton is playing you might as well say, hey its Tebow Time..."

yeah leading the league is overrated:laugh:
it's always a good idea to replace a top 5 qb with a rookie who was expected by most coaches to need a couple years to adjust to the nfl.
BRILLIANT !!!

Jagsbch
10-07-2010, 08:18 PM
Get your facts straight Orton is not a top 5 QB~!!

1 Peyton Manning 11 TDS 112.2
2 Tom Brady 11 TDS 109.0
3 Michael Vick 6 TDS 108.8
4 Mark Sanchez 8 TDS 105.3
5 Philip Rivers 9 TDS 102.8
6 Drew Brees 7 TDS 102.4
7 Jay Cutler 6 TDS 102.2
8 Aaron Rodgers 8 TDS 96.3
8 Kyle Orton 6 TDS 96.3
10 Matt Schaub 7 95.6

Now you might want to throw Ben Roethlisberger ahead of Orton, Matt schaub too, and bam all of a sudden Orton is not even top ten~!!

topscribe
10-07-2010, 08:19 PM
Only a dummie would attribute WR YAC'S to what a QB does with the ball, it might be credit to him on paper but not on film. When you have the film their is no gray area making Orton out to be a deep passing threat, especially when you have receivers like Eddie Royal catch the ball behind the line of scrimmage and run it for a 41 yard gain. Or Moreno catch it behind the line and take it for a 53 yard gain. :hand:

Now is that Orton throwing it for 100 yards or zero yards past the line of scrimmage? Stats are only as good as the interpreter, don't let them make a liar out of you.

Only a dummie would attribute all of Orton's yardage to YAC. But I guess not
every dummie actually watches the games. This has already been analyzed and
shown that most of Orton's yardage on the deep passes were actually air under
the ball, not YAC . . .

-----

T.K.O.
10-07-2010, 08:28 PM
Get your facts straight Orton is not a top 5 QB~!!

1 Peyton Manning 11 TDS 112.2
2 Tom Brady 11 TDS 109.0
3 Michael Vick 6 TDS 108.8
4 Mark Sanchez 8 TDS 105.3
5 Philip Rivers 9 TDS 102.8
6 Drew Brees 7 TDS 102.4
7 Jay Cutler 6 TDS 102.2
8 Aaron Rodgers 8 TDS 96.3
8 Kyle Orton 6 TDS 96.3
10 Matt Schaub 7 95.6

Now you might want to throw Ben Roethlisberger ahead of Orton, Matt schaub too, and bam all of a sudden Orton is not even top ten~!!

but i thought stats make you look dumb ?
passer rating is only 1 stat not the end all...orton is maybe the #1 qb based on how much he is helping a team with horrible special teams and the worst rushing attack in the league.....dont look like a dumm-ie ? :laugh::salute:
p.s. does it bother you that you can't dot the i in tim with a heart on a keyboard ?

Northman
10-07-2010, 08:30 PM
I said it before and ill say it again. Orton isnt the problem with this team right now.

T.K.O.
10-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Get your facts straight Orton is not a top 5 QB~!!

1 Peyton Manning 11 TDS 112.2
2 Tom Brady 11 TDS 109.0
3 Michael Vick 6 TDS 108.8
4 Mark Sanchez 8 TDS 105.3
5 Philip Rivers 9 TDS 102.8
6 Drew Brees 7 TDS 102.4
7 Jay Cutler 6 TDS 102.2
8 Aaron Rodgers 8 TDS 96.3
8 Kyle Orton 6 TDS 96.3
10 Matt Schaub 7 95.6

Now you might want to throw Ben Roethlisberger ahead of Orton, Matt schaub too, and bam all of a sudden Orton is not even top ten~!!

or you might take vick and cutler out since they are injured and not playing this week and BAM he's tied for 6th !!:elefant:
this is fun:D

Jagsbch
10-07-2010, 08:50 PM
This is fun...


Only a dummie would attribute all of Orton's yardage to YAC. But I guess not
every dummie actually watches the games. This has already been analyzed and
shown that most of Orton's yardage on the deep passes were actually air under
the ball, not YAC . . .

-----

Only a dummie would assume that I attribute all of Ortons yards to yacs.
Only a dummy would ignore 29 passes averaging two yards from the line of scrimmage, 37 3 yards from the line of scrimmage in the Colts game. when you study film this type of anomaly is something you game plan for and you don't do that stretching the field opening up running lanes for the rushing attack as if Orton possess some type of deep passing threat what so ever.

T.K.O.
10-07-2010, 08:55 PM
This is fun...



Only a dummie would assume that I attribute all of Ortons yards to yacs.
Only a dummy would ignore 29 passes averaging two yards from the line of scrimmage, 37 3 yards from the line of scrimmage in the Colts game. when you study film this type of anomaly is something you game plan for and you don't do that stretching the field opening up running lanes for the rushing attack as if Orton possess some type of deep passing threat what so ever.

unfortunately opposing defensive coordinators are not as simple minded...otherwise orton (who leads the nfl in plays over 40 yds) would torch their secondary.
but alas,people who get paid to prepare the teams dont believe the B.S. you are serving up in this thread:mad:

Northman
10-07-2010, 09:02 PM
How bout you guys try not to get so personal?

Lonestar
10-07-2010, 09:02 PM
how about folks we stop with teh name calling and debate the facts or opinons as stated in the thread.

:focus:

Lonestar
10-07-2010, 09:05 PM
I said it before and ill say it again. Orton isnt the problem with this team right now.
:salute:
we have alot of issues on the team right now and Orton is not one of them

If we can get some run blocking, screen pass blocking and a bit more protection for passing most of the issues will go away.

Unfortunately the next two weeks ar against some great defenses.

I did not think we could beat the TEN D or stop CJ from putting 300 yards on us.

But we did.


Lets see what rabbits there are in this weeks hat.

Jagsbch
10-08-2010, 08:14 AM
:salute:
we have alot of issues on the team right now and Orton is not one of them...
I think he is the No. 1 issue on this team.

Denver Broncos Kyle Orton Has Yet To Prove He Is a Clutch QB: Tim Tebow Is (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/485877-denver-broncos-kyle-orton-has-yet-to-prove-he-is-a-clutch-qb-tim-tebow-is)

Mike
10-08-2010, 08:24 AM
I think he is the No. 1 issue on this team.

Denver Broncos Kyle Orton Has Yet To Prove He Is a Clutch QB: Tim Tebow Is (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/485877-denver-broncos-kyle-orton-has-yet-to-prove-he-is-a-clutch-qb-tim-tebow-is)

Which shows how much you know about the team. :rolleyes:

Jagsbch
10-08-2010, 08:32 AM
Orton is the reason this team is not 4-0

His Int that went for a TD on the consecutive drive by the colts made for a 14 point differential, imagine that we lost by 14.

The INT that cost us the game winning drive while a wide open gaffney was ten yards away in the Jaguars game that saw 3 other potential INTs either dropped or had the receiver closeline the player to keep the ball from being intercepted.

Orton is not a clutch QB. As a matter of fact he sucks in clutch situations, he has proven that much.

You can't ignore Ortons detrimental impact while glorifying all the yards he is getting on YACs, that is rediuculous.

frenchfan
10-08-2010, 10:28 AM
Sure... Orton sucks so much he brang us back vs Titans in the last minutes of the game... We were trailed and we won it... Wasn't it money time anyway???

GIve the guy a running game and then we'll talk about how bad he is supposed to be...

That's not his Int that costed us the game vs Colts... But red zone play was... When you can't score like that, no way you can win a game... Plain and simple...

I like what Kyle is doing this year... He is our better QB right now... May be Tebow will be great, but it's not his time now...

Lonestar
10-08-2010, 10:38 AM
Sure... Orton sucks so much he brang us back vs Titans in the last minutes of the game... We were trailed and we won it... Wasn't it money time anyway???

GIve the guy a running game and then we'll talk about how bad he is supposed to be...

That's not his Int that costed us the game vs Colts... But red zone play was... When you can't score like that, no way you can win a game... Plain and simple...

I like what Kyle is doing this year... He is our better QB right now... May be Tebow will be great, but it's not his time now...

Great post my French friend you are spot on. Your english syntax is getting better. BUT it should have been brought. not brang. And cost not costed.

So endth English for French 101. :salute:

Amazing that you saw the difference from 4000 miles away and a local did not. :salute:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

frenchfan
10-14-2010, 10:08 AM
Great post my French friend you are spot on. Your english syntax is getting better. BUT it should have been brought. not brang. And cost not costed.

So endth English for French 101. :salute:

Amazing that you saw the difference from 4000 miles away and a local did not. :salute:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forumsThanks for the correction my friend... I try to improve my English every day... :beer:

I still can't believe some people are bashing Orton... Looks how well he plays right now... Did you notice his presence in the pocket against the Ravens? Those litlle steps to avoid the pressure Brady and Manning are so good at? Kyle made some...
And yeah... want to talk about those 2 great TD passes he threw ?

I'd rather blame our running game, our penalties, our OL and our bad D (against the Ravens)...

Just my 2 cents though... ;) :D

silkamilkamonico
10-14-2010, 12:56 PM
Thanks for the correction my friend... I try to improve my English every day... :beer:

I still can't believe some people are bashing Orton... Looks how well he plays right now... Did you notice his presence in the pocket against the Ravens? Those litlle steps to avoid the pressure Brady and Manning are so good at? Kyle made some...
And yeah... want to talk about those 2 great TD passes he threw ?

I'd rather blame our running game, our penalties, our OL and our bad D (against the Ravens)...

Just my 2 cents though... ;) :D

The only people that are bashing Orton are the one's that want Tim tebow to play, at the expense of the Broncos organization right now.

BroncoNut
10-14-2010, 01:02 PM
I don't think putting tebow in now would do anything for the team. we'd still still be as incomplete as we are now.

silkamilkamonico
10-14-2010, 01:09 PM
I don't think putting tebow in now would do anything for the team. we'd still still be as incomplete as we are now.

At least we with Orton we have a dynamic passing attack.

If we put Tebow in we no longer even have that. No disrepsect to Tebow in the passing game but Orton is just playing that well right now.

Lonestar
10-14-2010, 01:10 PM
I don't think putting tebow in now would do anything for the team. we'd still still be as incomplete as we are now.

Might improve the QB's YPC. :laugh:
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silkamilkamonico
10-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Might improve the QB's YPC. :laugh:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Then again, Orton's 2.9 ypc blows Tim Tebow's 1.0 ypc out of the water.

:D

honz
10-14-2010, 01:26 PM
Tebow is simply superior to Kyle Orton.

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
10-14-2010, 01:56 PM
Tebow is simply superior to Kyle Orton.

Don't get them started....