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GEM
10-03-2010, 09:51 AM
Tebow returns to No. 2 today
Posted by Mike Florio on October 3, 2010 10:32 AM ET
Last week, the Broncos surprisingly demoted rookie quarterback Tim Tebow from No. 2 to No. 3, even though Tebow was under the impression that he'd be the primary backup all year.

In the aftermath, Broncos coach Josh McDaniels suggested that the identity of the backup will be determined on a week-by-week basis.

For this week, against the Titans, the decision has been made to move Tebow back to No. 2.

The difference is significant. As the primary backup, Tebow can enter the game at any time, either if starter Kyle Orton is injured or if the Broncos want to use Tebow in their single-wing offense.

At No. 3, if Tebow enters the game at any point before the fourth quarter, neither of the other two quarterbacks (Orton and Brady Quinn) can return.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/03/tebow-returns-to-no-2-today/

BroncoNut
10-03-2010, 09:56 AM
Really? hmm.. I bet we see him play today

CrazyHorse
10-03-2010, 10:07 AM
GOALLINE!!! Josh was just saying that stuff to throw people off.

Tned
10-03-2010, 10:08 AM
GOALLINE!!! Josh was just saying that stuff to throw people off.

Lol, probably.

Vic said he has a gut feel that Tebow will play today.

BroncoJoe
10-03-2010, 10:09 AM
Lol, probably.

Vic said he has a gut feel that Tebow will play today.

I hope so. I mean really - why not?

Tned
10-03-2010, 10:18 AM
I hope so. I mean really - why not?

Good question. I'm torn on it. On the one hand, I get worried about Orton being distracted (either worrying about what happens if Tebow plays well or simply because he's taking snaps off mentally), or even gets hurt when he lines up as a WR.

The other concern I have, depending on how the game goes, is whether we can afford to lose those offensive snaps. Obviously, if we pick up yards, or first downs with him running the wild horse, that would change things, but to date, I don't think McD gets the power of the wildcat/wildhog offense.

I said this last year, that the way McDaniels runs it takes away most of the advantages, and therefore it is unlikely to be successful, unless with Tebow he introduces much more run fake, whether it is followed by a run (explained below) or a pass.

The reason is that when the Razorbacks ran it so well with McFadden, and what Miami duplicated, it was a system where virtually ever snap was a play fake.

It would either be two backs lined up in shotgun, or one lined up in shotgun, and a back (or WR) out wide that motions towards the QB during the snap.

Then, McFadden had about five distinct options:

Fake to the other RB and then run up the middle
Fake to the other RB (who runs up middle on the fake) and McF runs wide.
Hand off to the other RB who goes wide (whether from standstill or as part of the motion/sweep), while McF runs up the middle on the run fake.
Hand off to the other RB who runs up the middle, while McF runs wide on a run fake.


Now, I said "about five" and listed four, because of the pass component. I'm calling the "pass" as the fifth option, but it take multiple forms. The "pass option" was added to the first two options listed above.

Sometimes from shotgun, he would fake the handoff and then throw from a traditional shotgun QB location. Other times he would fake a handoff up the middle, then run/rollout wide (he typically did it to the left), and then as the defense came up to stop him from running, he would float a touch pass over their heads to a TE or someone shadowing his roll to the left.

In the wild horse, we have almost none of those components, which makes its chance of success very low. In ours, they line the QB out wide, and then an RB or Tebow is in shotgun, and then either the RB takes the snap and runs up the middle, or the QB motions over and goes under center.

It lacks the misdirection of the play fakes to other backs, which in the Razorback/Miami wildcat/wild hog created confusion on the defense, because they didn't know where to collapse its run coverage.

BroncoJoe
10-03-2010, 10:28 AM
Not sure it has to be that complicated, T. With Tebow in there the D won't know exactly what to expect. It doesn't have to be a real "wild horse" formation - could be as simple as what the Eagles did last year with Vick and McNabb.

BroncoBJ
10-03-2010, 10:28 AM
GOALLINE!!! Josh was just saying that stuff to throw people off.

:lol: Yea, Josh has been known to lie slightly. Probably right though. He probably said that stuff so he can use Tim at some point. I have a feeling 1 game this year, were going to unleash Tim and really surprise a team. Not sure when though.


Also about that #3 QB thing. So if a #3 QB comes in before the 4th. The #1 and #2 QB's cant play at all? Not even in the 4th? What if the #3 QB gets hurt? That rule still confuses me :cool:

Tned
10-03-2010, 10:33 AM
Not sure it has to be that complicated, T. With Tebow in there the D won't know exactly what to expect. It doesn't have to be a real "wild horse" formation - could be as simple as what the Eagles did last year with Vick and McNabb.

It doesn't have to be, but McDaniels has said he wasn't going to pull Orton off the field, and that has been assumed to mean that Tebow will only play a wildcat type role.

I agree, that they could just let Tebow run plays, but if that was the case, they probably should be pulling Orton off the field and giving him an Extra TE or WR to throw to, or draw coverage.

Tned
10-03-2010, 10:37 AM
:lol: Yea, Josh has been known to lie slightly. Probably right though. He probably said that stuff so he can use Tim at some point. I have a feeling 1 game this year, were going to unleash Tim and really surprise a team. Not sure when though.


Also about that #3 QB thing. So if a #3 QB comes in before the 4th. The #1 and #2 QB's cant play at all? Not even in the 4th? What if the #3 QB gets hurt? That rule still confuses me :cool:

I actually misunderstood the rule. I had always thought that if the #3 came in before the 4th quarter, then the #1 and #2 couldn't re-enter the game until the 4th quarter. That isn't the case.

The rule is:

If the #3 QB comes in before the 4th quarter, then the #1 and #2 are out for the rest of the game and can never re-enter.

Once the 4th quarter starts, then any of the three QBs can play -- meaning, that if the #3 QB doesn't enter until after the start of the fourth quarter, then all three QBs can play in the fourth quarter and come in and out of the game as needed.

So, if the #3 QB came in during the third quarter and got hurt, then the Broncos would have to go to their emergency QB (usually a wide receiver or something, Rod Smith used to be the Broncos emergency QB).

Ravage!!!
10-03-2010, 10:40 AM
I mentioned last week that I feel it will be changed back and forth depending on who we play, and the game plan.

Last week, I think the game plan was to come out throwing the ball. So if Orton went down, Quinn is the guy he wanted to come in and run the passing offense. This week, the plan will be different.

Will be interesting to see if Tebow is used on the goalline offense. I personally think he should be. He's a running threat, and passing threat. Lots of NFL QBs run TDs in when things are spread out down there. Seems to be a wise plan to me.

LordTrychon
10-03-2010, 10:41 AM
I actually misunderstood the rule. I had always thought that if the #3 came in before the 4th quarter, then the #1 and #2 couldn't re-enter the game until the 4th quarter. That isn't the case.

The rule is:

If the #3 QB comes in before the 4th quarter, then the #1 and #2 are out for the rest of the game and can never re-enter.

Once the 4th quarter starts, then any of the three QBs can play.

So, if the #3 QB came in during the third quarter and got hurt, then the Broncos would have to go to their emergency QB (usually a wide receiver or something, Rod Smith used to be the Broncos emergency QB).

That's slightly different from how I remembered it as well.... but good to know. (4th quarter rules always threw me off.)

Anyway... is anyone truly surprised to find out that this will be a fluid situation as the year goes on?

Tned
10-03-2010, 10:42 AM
Anyway... is anyone truly surprised to find out that this will be a fluid situation as the year goes on?

Nope.

BroncoBJ
10-03-2010, 10:42 AM
I actually misunderstood the rule. I had always thought that if the #3 came in before the 4th quarter, then the #1 and #2 couldn't re-enter the game until the 4th quarter. That isn't the case.

The rule is:

If the #3 QB comes in before the 4th quarter, then the #1 and #2 are out for the rest of the game and can never re-enter.

Once the 4th quarter starts, then any of the three QBs can play.

So, if the #3 QB came in during the third quarter and got hurt, then the Broncos would have to go to their emergency QB (usually a wide receiver or something, Rod Smith used to be the Broncos emergency QB).

You confused me. Or maybe I'm just slow. But you said if the #3 QB enters before the 4th, you use to think they couldn't reenter until the 4th. But then said that isn't the case. And that if the #1 and #2 are out, they can never reenter. And then said once the 4th quarter starts, any of the 3 can play. :lol:

So I don't know what the case is. But yea, I misunderstand that rule a lot also.

ANd yea, I remember when Rod was our backup QB at 1 point a while back. Also Leach was our emergency QB that game against the Lions I remember :lol: Wonder who our emergency QB now is.

titan
10-03-2010, 10:49 AM
I mentioned last week that I feel it will be changed back and forth depending on who we play, and the game plan.

Last week, I think the game plan was to come out throwing the ball. So if Orton went down, Quinn is the guy he wanted to come in and run the passing offense. This week, the plan will be different.



Agree completely - the choice of the #2 qb says nothing about the long term prospects of Tebow but rather the matchups each week.

Hopefully McD isn't thinking "there's a possibility we are going to get blown out this week so let's make Timmy #2 to get him some snaps in garbage time" :-)

honz
10-03-2010, 10:51 AM
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! I love Tim Tebow!

Ravage!!!
10-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Agree completely - the choice of the #2 qb says nothing about the long term prospects of Tebow but rather the matchups each week.

Hopefully McD isn't thinking "there's a possibility we are going to get blown out this week so let's make Timmy #2 to get him some snaps in garbage time" :-)

I don't think so, because the Titan's passing game isn't very good and thats the best of our defense. So they will be running a lot. Now, they may score, but I dont' think its going to be a TON, so we won't be blown out... imo.

The problem is, their defense is a lot more stout than Indy's.... so I don't expect us to score much. But I think we'll see Tebow used in short-yardage and goal line. Maybe not, but I still hold to the belief that we should be using him there.

Tned
10-03-2010, 10:54 AM
You confused me. Or maybe I'm just slow. But you said if the #3 QB enters before the 4th, you use to think they couldn't reenter until the 4th. But then said that isn't the case. And that if the #1 and #2 are out, they can never reenter. And then said once the 4th quarter starts, any of the 3 can play. :lol:

So I don't know what the case is. But yea, I misunderstand that rule a lot also.

ANd yea, I remember when Rod was our backup QB at 1 point a while back. Also Leach was our emergency QB that game against the Lions I remember :lol: Wonder who our emergency QB now is.

I added this to my original post, hopefull that clears it up:

-- meaning, that if the #3 QB doesn't enter until after the start of the fourth quarter, then all three QBs can play in the fourth quarter and come in and out of the game as needed

BroncoBJ
10-03-2010, 10:58 AM
I added this to my original post, hopefull that clears it up:

-- meaning, that if the #3 QB doesn't enter until after the start of the fourth quarter, then all three QBs can play in the fourth quarter and come in and out of the game as needed

Eh, still kinda confusing. I pretty much understand it, but the 4th quarter part is all confusing. Though I bet if Orton got hurt and McD didn't think he'd return, Quinn would probably take over.

Lets just hope we never have to worry about all that though. ANd I hope if we use Tebow, that we don't just use him for 3 plays that ammount to nothing like in week 1. :fight:

LRtagger
10-03-2010, 10:59 AM
Whats funny is how McD has been criticized all week by the national media because his top pick QB that he traded picks for was "demoted" to 3rd string. I think it is pretty obvious, even to the morons at ESPN, that Quinn was the #2 because his skillset was better suited for the gameplan last week.

Not that it makes any difference anyways because Orton is playing great football.

Tned
10-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Whats funny is how McD has been criticized all week by the national media because his top pick QB that he traded picks for was "demoted" to 3rd string. I think it is pretty obvious, even to the morons at ESPN, that Quinn was the #2 because his skillset was better suited for the gameplan last week.

Not that it makes any difference anyways because Orton is playing great football.

I didn't watch any NFLN or ESPN this week. Was there really that much criticism of him over Tebow being #3 last week?

Ravage!!!
10-03-2010, 11:28 AM
I didn't watch any NFLN or ESPN this week. Was there really that much criticism of him over Tebow being #3 last week?

by a few. But I think thats a result of the "Tebow watcher" hype more than anything else.

jhildebrand
10-03-2010, 11:29 AM
Anyway... is anyone truly surprised to find out that this will be a fluid situation as the year goes on?

No but to call the suggestion, and almost the reporter who made it, ridiculous is in itself ridiculous.

Ravage!!!
10-03-2010, 11:34 AM
No but to call the suggestion, and almost the reporter who made it, ridiculous is in itself ridiculous.

which is the ONLY problem I had about it. The question was pretty reasonable and in itself pretty self-explanitory and the response was asinine (as I said before).

But as I said in the other thread, if McD does play Tebow on the goalline, I'llgive him props rather than gripes. At least he wasn't too stubborn to do what was best, rather than let his own words to the media dictate his actions.

broncophan
10-03-2010, 11:40 AM
I'm callin' it now....Tebow will get a touchdown today.....

BroncoBJ
10-03-2010, 11:43 AM
I can just picture Tebow have 1 play, 1 TD. Then Jags will tell us about how Tebow needs to be the starter. :fight:

broncophan
10-03-2010, 11:58 AM
I can just picture Tebow have 1 play, 1 TD. Then Jags will tell us about how Tebow needs to be the starter. :fight:

hell.....he already says that......:laugh:.....I can't imagine what he would say if that did happen....

LRtagger
10-03-2010, 02:24 PM
I didn't watch any NFLN or ESPN this week. Was there really that much criticism of him over Tebow being #3 last week?

Yes. Even on ESPN Sunday countdown today they had Tebow's face on a board and Chris Carter said some crap about how McD mortgaged away our draft to get back into the first to get him and now he's been demoted to 3rd string.