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View Full Version : Josh McDaniels on the Drive today talking about Broncos, babies and Peyton Hillis - Josh is a new father



Tned
09-30-2010, 09:29 PM
McDaniels was on The Drive on 104.3 this afternoon.

The big news was that his wife gave birth to a baby girl on Tuesday. Now that's a football wife, give birth on the teams off day. :salute:

He talked about a number of topics, and it's worth a listen (click link below). Among the topics was Peyton Hillis, where the guys on The Drive got him to finally address the subject.

Here's an rough/abbreviated transcript of the Hillis portion, but now that it's up on the 104.3 website, you should check it out to hear the full interview:


Hillis is a good kid and has an opportunity to be a good player in this league.

To state what happened here. We have a system that require different things, we use running backs in different ways. When we tried to do that with Peyton, we didn't get the most out of peyton. Moving the backs around the way we do.

I haven't watched any of Cleveland's games, but from what I have seen in stats, he is doing well. I think that Hillis is the kind of guy that if you hand it to him 25 times a game and he is running down hill, he can be very effective. Our offense isn't built around that style.

http://www.1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1287600

Northman
09-30-2010, 09:37 PM
No offense Josh (congrats on your kid) but we need a downhill runner. Im not sure about the logic he is using with this running scheme. Its not currently working and if he isnt using a downhill runner than i have some real concerns for us come winter time.

Foochacho
09-30-2010, 09:39 PM
Our offense isn't built around that style.

Our offense isn't built around scoring. That's what I picked up from that. Them damn north and south runners always plowing their way into the endzone.:tsk:

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 09:41 PM
...we didn't get the most out of peyton.

That's no lie!



Moving the backs around the way we do.

How is that working out for the Broncos? :confused:



I think that Hillis is the kind of guy that if you hand it to him 25 times a game and he is running down hill, he can be very effective. Our offense isn't built around that style.

Gee...I could see why you wouldn't want a back who can take the ball 25+ carries a game and soften up a D for a burner.



Our offense isn't built around that style.


We know. :coffee: It is built on 2 YPC and more dancing than an episode of the Best of Soultrain.

Tned
09-30-2010, 09:45 PM
How about them "congrats on the new baby girl" posts!!

Thnikkaman
09-30-2010, 09:48 PM
Welcome to the Daddy club Josh McD. Did he say what her name was?

Tned
09-30-2010, 09:49 PM
Welcome to the Daddy club Josh McD. Did he say what her name was?

No, I found that kind of funny. He said his wife's name (I forgot) and said something like, "______ and the baby will be coming home tonight. I'm lucky to have ______, she's great."

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 09:49 PM
How about them "congrats on the new baby girl" posts!!

Oh yea...congrats on Moreno, Josh :D He is the biggest baby girl this team has had in a while.



J/K

(I intentionally avoid the personal lives of coaches/players if i can)

Dean
09-30-2010, 09:51 PM
I don't understand what McD is trying to say. He indicates that last year they were trying to be that kind (I assume a power running game) but it Peyton just didn't work out. How did he not work out? The only time he was given more than 2 or 3 plays he looked great. Funny, he didn't get any chances after that. Even when everyone but Knowshon was hurt and Moreno was completely winded, Peyton was gathering splinters on the bench.

Josh didn't want him on the field. I can't but wonder why.

Don't try to convince me that we didn't then and still don't need a short yardage power back or that we have one on the team.

Tned
09-30-2010, 09:57 PM
I don't understand what McD is trying to say. He indicates that last year they were trying to be that kind (I assume a power running game) but it Peyton just didn't work out. How did he not work out? The only time he was given more than 2 or 3 plays he looked great. Funny, he didn't get any chances after that. Even when everyone but Knowshon was hurt and Moreno was completely winded, Peyton was gathering splinters on the bench.

Josh didn't want him on the field. I can't but wonder why.

Don't try to convince me that we didn't then and still don't need a short yardage power back or that we have one on the team.

Glad you brought up the winded game. That game made it clear to me that Hillis was never going to be given a shot in Denver. I don't remember the game, but Buck is out hurt, Moreno was being run into the ground to the point where he looked like he was stumbling from hand off to LOS. They brought Hillis in for one series I believe to give Moreno a breather, and never gave Hillis the ball, and then brought back in a completely ineffective Moreno (due to fatigue) and never used Hillis to spell him.

Tned
09-30-2010, 09:58 PM
(I intentionally avoid the personal lives of coaches/players if i can)

I typically do to, but the start and end of the interview were bracketed by McKinley's death and his babies birth.

Buff
09-30-2010, 09:59 PM
Reading between the lines on what he said about Hillis: He probably feels that guys like Hillis are a dime a dozen in this league. A guy who will put his head down and churn out 3-4 YPC, but not really ever be known for breaking a long one or making many guys miss aren't exceptionally hard to find.

That being said...

I'm not saying getting rid of Hillis was right, because he's a little bit better than your average fullback and right now we could really use him... But I don't necessarily think McD's philosophy is wrong either - I can see what he was thinking. I think you can always find a big bruising fullback type with average speed - but our guy (LenDale White) went down with injury and we haven't found his replacement yet. In McD's mind, a QB with 1st round potential is tougher to come by than a 7th rd overachieving FB. Only problem is, Hillis is overachieving and Quinn is underachieving.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:06 PM
Reading between the lines on what he said about Hillis: He probably feels that guys like Hillis are a dime a dozen in this league. A guy who will put his head down and churn out 3-4 YPC, but not really ever be known for breaking a long one or making many guys miss aren't exceptionally hard to find.

That being said...

I'm not saying getting rid of Hillis was right, because he's a little bit better than your average fullback and right now we could really use him... But I don't necessarily think McD's philosophy is wrong either - I can see what he was thinking. I think you can always find a big bruising fullback type with average speed - but our guy (LenDale White) went down with injury and we haven't found his replacement yet. In McD's mind, a QB with 1st round potential is tougher to come by than a 7th rd overachieving FB. Only problem is, Hillis is overachieving and Quinn is underachieving.

One note, the big bruising FB with average speed could also be described as, "big bruising FB with Moreno and TD speed".

He's pretty darn quick for a 250lb guy, running as fast as a lot of 215-225lb backs in this league.

BeefStew25
09-30-2010, 10:07 PM
joshy, congrats on being the first person to ever have a kid born.

Northman
09-30-2010, 10:07 PM
I'm not saying getting rid of Hillis was right, because he's a little bit better than your average fullback and right now we could really use him... But I don't necessarily think McD's philosophy is wrong either - I can see what he was thinking. I think you can always find a big bruising fullback type with average speed - but our guy (LenDale White) went down with injury and we haven't found his replacement yet. In McD's mind, a QB with 1st round potential is tougher to come by than a 7th rd overachieving FB. Only problem is, Hillis is overachieving and Quinn is underachieving.

Unfortuantely, its generally good practice to make sure you have a guy to replace that kind of production or that position. I think McD got caught looking too far ahead and had a little too much faith in his system.

honz
09-30-2010, 10:08 PM
Hillis is brain dead. Congrats to the McDaniels family.

Buff
09-30-2010, 10:12 PM
One note, the big bruising FB with average speed could also be described as, "big bruising FB with Moreno and TD speed".

He's pretty darn quick for a 250lb guy, running as fast as a lot of 215-225lb backs in this league.

I don't disagree at all. Moreno is too slow for a featured back IMO. And Hillis is probably a little better than McD gives him credit for... But I can see the philosophy behind the move (Hillis for Quinn). Time will tell if it was right or wrong.

Right now Quinn hasn't done anything, our RB's are all hurt, and Hillis is coming off of a career day, so it looks horrendous - but the real valuation is probably somewhere in the middle.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:15 PM
The running backs and full backs that ran at the 2008 combine:




Name POS 40 Time Bench Press Vertical
Chris Johnson RB 4.25 375 43.5
Darren McFadden RB 4.33 330 33
Felix Jones RB 4.37 305 39
Jamaal Charles RB 4.38
Jonathan Stewart RB 4.4 410 36
Steve Slaton RB 4.41 305 38
Ray Rice RB 4.44 39
Rashard Mendenhall RB 4.45 355 33
Peyton Hillis FB 4.56 355 31
Matt Forte RB 4.59 355 33
Tashard Choice RB 4.62 350 37
Jacob Hester FB 4.64 425

Denver Native (Carol)
09-30-2010, 10:15 PM
Welcome to the Daddy club Josh McD. Did he say what her name was?

This is their 3rd child - they already have a boy, and girl.

Buff
09-30-2010, 10:16 PM
Unfortuantely, its generally good practice to make sure you have a guy to replace that kind of production or that position. I think McD got caught looking too far ahead and had a little too much faith in his system.

True, but I think you have to give McD the benefit of the doubt to some extent as you can't just assume Moreno, White and Buck will all go down with serious injuries before week 3.

I'm not even saying the Hillis move was right. It looks bad right now. But I can see what he was thinking.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:21 PM
2010 RB's at combine:


Name 40-Yard
Dash
Best, Jahvid 4.35
Spiller, CJ 4.37
Tate, Ben 4.43
McKnight, Joe 4.47
Hardesty, Montario 4.49
Starks, James 4.5
Gerhart, Toby 4.53
James, Javarris 4.53
Mathews, Ryan 4.53
Miller, Lonyae 4.53
Marshall, Darius 4.56
McNeal, Shawnbrey 4.56
Brown, Chris 4.58
McCluster, Dexter 4.58
Dwyer, Jonathan 4.59
Blount, LeGarrette 4.62
Dixon, Andre 4.64
Bell, Joique 4.65
Dixon, Anthony 4.65
Johnson, Stafon 4.66
Scott, Charles 4.67
Paschall, Pat 4.69
Toston, Keith 4.7
Conner, John 4.72
Jackson, Rashawn 4.73
Tonga, Manase 4.85
In other words, Hillis' speed is on par with all but the burners in each draft class, and there are few RB's that can match his receiving or tackle breaking.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:26 PM
2009 combine:

Moreno 4.60
Beenie Wells 4.59
James Davis 4.61
Shonne Green 4.63

Now, just because Hillis is as fast or faster as all these guys, and easily in the top half (speed wise) of all RBs drafted in the last three years, doesn't mean I am saying he is as good, or better. I was just trying to dispell the speed issue once and for all.

Buff
09-30-2010, 10:27 PM
2010 RB's at combine:

In other words, Hillis' speed is on par with all but the burners in each draft class, and there are few RB's that can match his receiving or tackle breaking.

I love Hillis, but he's not going to do anything exceptionally well except for running guys over. He's a great addition to any team, but that skill set isn't hard to come by. That was McD's logic and I can't say I disagree.

I think your argument is that his skill set is more unique than he is being given credit for... And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as good as his cult following in Denver believes he is, but he is better than the evaluators here gave him credit for.

Buff
09-30-2010, 10:28 PM
2009 combine:

Moreno 4.60
Beenie Wells 4.59
James Davis 4.61
Shonne Green 4.63

Now, just because Hillis is as fast or faster as all these guys, and easily in the top half (speed wise) of all RBs drafted in the last three years, doesn't mean I am saying he is as good, or better. I was just trying to dispell the speed issue once and for all.

I said he has average speed. I think that evidence you provided proves the point more than refutes it.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:30 PM
I love Hillis, but he's not going to do anything exceptionally well except for running guys over. He's a great addition to any team, but that skill set isn't hard to come by. That was McD's logic and I can't say I disagree.

I think your argument is that his skill set is more unique than he is being given credit for... And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as good as his cult following in Denver believes he is, but he is better than the evaluators here gave him credit for.

Nope, not really arguing that. Don't get me wrong, I think the Broncos should have used him last year (not as the starter, but in relief, like when Buck was down, to spell Moreno), and surely could use him last year.

I'm only throwing up the counter argument to the he's just your run of the mill FB with so/so speed claims. It just isn't accurate.

Lonestar
09-30-2010, 10:31 PM
I don't understand what McD is trying to say. He indicates that last year they were trying to be that kind (I assume a power running game) but it Peyton just didn't work out. How did he not work out? The only time he was given more than 2 or 3 plays he looked great. Funny, he didn't get any chances after that. Even when everyone but Knowshon was hurt and Moreno was completely winded, Peyton was gathering splinters on the bench.

Josh didn't want him on the field. I can't but wonder why.

Don't try to convince me that we didn't then and still don't need a short yardage power back or that we have one on the team.


Just maybe Coach they tried him in Practice and he did not "get it".

If he did not get it in practice why would they expect him to get it in the game.

I'm guessing that you had players like that from time to time.

BeefStew25
09-30-2010, 10:34 PM
Hillis sure as **** got 'it' against the Ravens.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:35 PM
I said he has average speed. I think that evidence you provided proves the point more than refutes it.

Average running back speed, not FB speed. Your statement of "I think you can always find a big bruising fullback type with average speed" would indicate average FB speed.

Regardless, the point I was making is that he has Moreno, TD, Shonne Green, Beenie Wells, Matt Forte (I've also seen him listed faster, so think he might have had a bad day at the combine), etc. speed. That might be average, but many, many RBs in this league have been VERY successful with that 'average' speed and very few of them were in the 240-240lb range running that speed.

Tned
09-30-2010, 10:36 PM
Just maybe Coach they tried him in Practice and he did not "get it".

If he did not get it in practice why would they expect him to get it in the game.

I'm guessing that you had players like that from time to time.

I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe Hillis just couldn't follow directions. The plays clearly call for hit the hole and fall down, keeping your YPC between 2.0 and 2.5. My guess is he was a malcontent that wouldn't follow directions, and just kept plowing along for his 5-6 YPC.

BeefStew25
09-30-2010, 10:37 PM
i'm going out on a limb here, but maybe hillis just couldn't follow directions. The plays clearly call for hit the hole and fall down, keeping your ypc between 2.0 and 2.5. My guess is he was a malcontent that wouldn't follow directions, and just kept plowing along for his 5-6 ypc.

bam!

Lonestar
09-30-2010, 10:42 PM
I don't disagree at all. Moreno is too slow for a featured back IMO. And Hillis is probably a little better than McD gives him credit for... But I can see the philosophy behind the move (Hillis for Quinn). Time will tell if it was right or wrong.

Right now Quinn hasn't done anything, our RB's are all hurt, and Hillis is coming off of a career day, so it looks horrendous - but the real valuation is probably somewhere in the middle.

I'll give up a 7th rounder any day for a potential FQB day one pick. Especially since he was the one QB that he liked better than Orton when they were looking to trade jay. but CLE was not in the bargaining mood.

As for Quinn he is as lost as Orton was his first year in the scheme. had they come into the franchise at the same time I suspect Quinn would have beat him out.

But time will tell if Quinn can get the scheme we run although it is similar to what they did in cle just with better coaching than he had.

TXBRONC
09-30-2010, 10:52 PM
I love Hillis, but he's not going to do anything exceptionally well except for running guys over. He's a great addition to any team, but that skill set isn't hard to come by. That was McD's logic and I can't say I disagree.

I think your argument is that his skill set is more unique than he is being given credit for... And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as good as his cult following in Denver believes he is, but he is better than the evaluators here gave him credit for.

John Riggins made a Hall of Fame career out of running people over.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:01 PM
John Riggins made a Hall of Fame career out of running people over.

True. And maybe Hillis will go on to have a great career. I don't want to seem like a Hillis hater - guy has proven to be a good back. I'm just saying I can understand McD's logic, even if it might not seem very smart at the moment.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:02 PM
Reading between the lines on what he said about Hillis: He probably feels that guys like Hillis are a dime a dozen in this league. A guy who will put his head down and churn out 3-4 YPC, but not really ever be known for breaking a long one or making many guys miss aren't exceptionally hard to find.

That being said...

I'm not saying getting rid of Hillis was right, because he's a little bit better than your average fullback and right now we could really use him... But I don't necessarily think McD's philosophy is wrong either - I can see what he was thinking. I think you can always find a big bruising fullback type with average speed - but our guy (LenDale White) went down with injury and we haven't found his replacement yet. In McD's mind, a QB with 1st round potential is tougher to come by than a 7th rd overachieving FB. Only problem is, Hillis is overachieving and Quinn is underachieving.

I would sincerely hope he didn't feel a Hillis is a dime a dozen. Because he has spent a few of his dimes and he may spend another dozen more and not get a Hillis.

The last time the league saw someone like Hillis was Alstott.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:05 PM
I love Hillis, but he's not going to do anything exceptionally well except for running guys over. He's a great addition to any team, but that skill set isn't hard to come by. That was McD's logic and I can't say I disagree.

I think your argument is that his skill set is more unique than he is being given credit for... And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as good as his cult following in Denver believes he is, but he is better than the evaluators here gave him credit for.

0 and 5 in the RZ disagrees. If it was as simple as picking someone up why get Maroney? :confused: Why not get someone with that skill set that is so easy to come by?

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:08 PM
Especially since he was the one QB that he liked better than Orton when they were looking to trade jay.

Which scares the bejeezus out of me after seeing Brady Quinn's preseason. McDaniels talent evaluation already has a spotty record-at best. I would hate to think he lucked out with Orton.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:11 PM
0 and 5 in the RZ disagrees. If it was as simple as picking someone up why get Maroney? :confused: Why not get someone with that skill set that is so easy to come by?

Like I said, he couldn't have anticipated White going down with a season ender in the middle of training camp.

Tned
09-30-2010, 11:14 PM
True. And maybe Hillis will go on to have a great career. I don't want to seem like a Hillis hater - guy has proven to be a good back. I'm just saying I can understand McD's logic, even if it might not seem very smart at the moment.

I can understand his logic in trading him, because Orton clearly didn't look like a long term, and possibly not short term, solution at QB. I don't understand his refusal to use him last year, even when he REALLY needed a fresh set of legs. Then again, we don't get to attend the practices, so who knows what was going on.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:15 PM
Like I said, he couldn't have anticipated White going down with a season ender in the middle of training camp.

Fair enough. I always forget about White seeing how he was injured in the 4th preseason game (I didn't see it I was on vaca). A game of monumental importance.

LenDale White aside, if this skill set is a dime a dozen and easy to find, I still don't follow you on the Maroney signing instead of someone more of Hillis' skill set.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:16 PM
At the end of the day, I have said this since last year, you cannot tell me, with the playoffs on the line, that LaMont Jordan gave the team a better chance to win than Peyton Hillis.

EDIT: McD and his cronies can continue to try to sell the idea that Hillis just isn't smart but in the long run, Hillis production will show just who wasn't the smart one.

Tned
09-30-2010, 11:18 PM
Like I said, he couldn't have anticipated White going down with a season ender in the middle of training camp.

I'm struggling to see why you keep bringing up White in relation to the Hillis trade, as Hillis was traded about five months before White was signed.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm struggling to see why you keep bringing up White in relation to the Hillis trade, as Hillis was traded about five months before White was signed.

Maybe I am wrong but I think Buff is stating that White was McD's solution to losing a bruiser like Hillis and using him as his replacement.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm struggling to see why you keep bringing up White in relation to the Hillis trade, as Hillis was traded about five months before White was signed.

I bring up White as McD seeing the need to bring in a power back... So when people say "Now we don't have a power back," it's not for lack of trying.

Tned
09-30-2010, 11:28 PM
I bring up White as McD seeing the need to bring in a power back... So when people say "Now we don't have a power back," it's not for lack of trying.

Yes, but he clearly didn't have White lined up as the replacement when Hillis was traded. Plus, when he signed White, he knew he wasn't going to have him for the first four games, while White served his suspension. So, White was never an option to help on the goal line in the first four games.

Northman
09-30-2010, 11:30 PM
I dont even consider White that good. At least on Hillis level.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:31 PM
Fair enough. I always forget about White seeing how he was injured in the 4th preseason game (I didn't see it I was on vaca). A game of monumental importance.

LenDale White aside, if this skill set is a dime a dozen and easy to find, I still don't follow you on the Maroney signing instead of someone more of Hillis' skill set.

Tough to plug a guy in midseason who doesn't know the system. The Maroney acquisition was probably a little bit desparate though, given that he's not healthy. A guy could know every play in the book like the back of his hand, but if he's got a bad groin/thigh/hip/whatever it doesn't do anyone any good.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Tough to plug a guy in midseason who doesn't know the system. The Maroney acquisition was probably a little bit desparate though, given that he's not healthy. A guy could know every play in the book like the back of his hand, but if he's got a bad groin/thigh/hip/whatever it doesn't do anyone any good.

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, earlier you stated that backs of Hillis skill set are a dime a dozen especially when all they need to do is plow forward for a yard. So why not bring in someone other than Maroney? :confused: If they are so easy to find, why not go get that back? Afterall, it isn't like they need to know the entire playbook. They just need to know how to get the one yard.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:35 PM
I dont even consider White that good. At least on Hillis level.

Right, I agree Hilllis > White, but from McD's perspective, if you're only going to use Hillis as a power back anyway, then in theory you could get that production from a guy like White just as easily.

In McD's mind, Moreno is the featured back and that's not changing. Arguably, Hillis deserves the job more than Moreno, but that's not how he saw it. :whoknows:

If he had it to do over, knowing that we would go on to draft Tebow, maybe he doesn't make the trade. But at the time, he wanted competition for Orton as well.

scott.475
09-30-2010, 11:37 PM
Yeah, we are not running the kind of system where we might ask a RB to power his way into the endzone on occasion. We also aren't running the kind of system where we need a back with the speed to run from 50 yards or so from midfield in order to tackle a DB returning an interception. We probably also don't need one who has to have a tendon torn from his bone to miss playing time. Just saying...

I like Josh more this year than last, but he just can't be telling the full story on this one.

BORDERLINE
09-30-2010, 11:39 PM
IDK but i believe that McD had a personal gripe with Hillis maybe Peyton said something during OTA's that pissed McD off and that was that...becouse there i no way u let that kind of talent go...lendale white , now Moroney , andre brown...Hillis is better than all three of them..with that said i'm glad he's puttin up numbers good for him he deserves it

DenBronx
09-30-2010, 11:39 PM
:deadhorse:


We're never getting him back.


Dumb move but we must move on with an average run game.

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
:deadhorse:


We're never getting him back.


Dumb move but we must move on with an average run game.

Well below average run game :D

I'll move on when the McD can "do no wrong" die hards admit the guy, at this point, probably made a mistake!

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
I don't disagree with anything you said. However, earlier you stated that backs of Hillis skill set are a dime a dozen especially when all they need to do is plow forward for a yard. So why not bring in someone other than Maroney? :confused: If they are so easy to find, why not go get that back? Afterall, it isn't like they need to know the entire playbook. They just need to know how to get the one yard.

That's a fair point, I guess my response is that they are "relatively easy" to come by in the later rounds of the draft and free agency. When the need arises in week 2 it becomes significantly more difficult to find that guy because most have found homes on other teams, are injured, or aren't in ideal football shape being out of camp for the last 3 months. Maybe Andre Brown can fill that role but they want to give him a couple weeks to learn the system?

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:44 PM
That's a fair point, I guess my response is that they are "relatively easy" to come by in the later rounds of the draft and free agency. When the need arises in week 2 it becomes significantly more difficult to find that guy because most have found homes on other teams, are injured, or aren't in ideal football shape being out of camp for the last 3 months. Maybe Andre Brown can fill that role but they want to give him a couple weeks to learn the system?

Fair enough :D I was just hounding you in good fun.

I tell you what, if I ran a team I would pay someone good money to scout every PS player in the league. There is a stud sitting on someone's PS. I am not sure if scouting depts do it but they should.

Also, where is Gartrell Johnson? :confused: I would give him a looksee if he is available.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:47 PM
Fair enough :D I was just hounding you in good fun.

I tell you what, if I ran a team I would pay someone good money to scout every PS player in the league. There is a stud sitting on someone's PS. I am not sure if scouting depts do it but they should.

Also, where is Gartrell Johnson? :confused: I would give him a looksee if he is available.

Johnson? He is probably bagging groceries with the rest of the CSU alums. :D

Tned
09-30-2010, 11:48 PM
That's a fair point, I guess my response is that they are "relatively easy" to come by in the later rounds of the draft and free agency. When the need arises in week 2 it becomes significantly more difficult to find that guy because most have found homes on other teams, are injured, or aren't in ideal football shape being out of camp for the last 3 months. Maybe Andre Brown can fill that role but they want to give him a couple weeks to learn the system?

Based on that logic, McD was woefully negligent going through the draft and all the way to the start of training camp until signing White. Based on your theory, he should have drafted one in April rather than rolling the dice hoping someone would be available in August. Then, signing someone that was going to start the season suspended, and as is often said on this board, "was just one mistake away from missing the entire season."

jhildebrand
09-30-2010, 11:50 PM
Johnson? He is probably bagging groceries with the rest of the CSU alums. :D

It pains me to say it, as a fellow CU guy, but it isn't like Darrell Scott is in the league :tsk:

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:54 PM
Based on that logic, McD was woefully negligent going through the draft and all the way to the start of training camp until signing White. Based on your theory, he should have drafted one in April rather than rolling the dice hoping someone would be available in August. Then, signing someone that was going to start the season suspended, and as is often said on this board, "was just one mistake away from missing the entire season."

I don't know if it's fair to say "woefully negligent." This team had lots of holes to fill in the draft. It's easy to second guess later on. Maybe he drafts a RB and then we're hurting at WR as a result. Or he gets an ILB and we're hurting at Center. All of the DB's taken on the second day made the team, so whose to say those were bad picks. You can't fill all of your needs in the draft every year.

I guess I'm inclined to give him credit for identifying that there was still a need and trying to fill it. Not every personnel move works how how you draw it up.

Northman
09-30-2010, 11:56 PM
I don't know if it's fair to say "woefully negligent." This team had lots of holes to fill in the draft. It's easy to second guess later on. Maybe he drafts a RB and then we're hurting at WR as a result. Or he gets an ILB and we're hurting at Center. All of the DB's taken on the second day made the team, so whose to say those were bad picks. You can't fill all of your needs in the draft every year.

I guess I'm inclined to give him credit for identifying that there was still a need and trying to fill it. Not every personnel move works how how you draw it up.


Yea, there were lots of holes, but spending what? 2-3 picks on a backup QB in the first? Not sure i would have gone that route if i had that many holes to fill.

Buff
09-30-2010, 11:58 PM
It pains me to say it, as a fellow CU guy, but it isn't like Darrell Scott is in the league :tsk:

Ugh, just hearing that name makes me cringe... I'll be interested to see what he does at USF next year.

I actually liked Johnson. And even Kyle Bell before he tore up his knee. I'm just glad Bradlee Van Pelt isn't on the team anymore. I've never gotten over him scoring a TD and spiking the ball off of the Buff player's helmet. (And not even getting a flag for it :mad: )

Buff
10-01-2010, 12:03 AM
Yea, there were lots of holes, but spending what? 2-3 picks on a backup QB in the first? Not sure i would have gone that route if i had that many holes to fill.

I'm open to the idea that McD might have made a mistake on trading Hillis and drafting Tebow, but I think it's too early to make that judgement on either guy.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 12:17 AM
Which scares the bejeezus out of me after seeing Brady Quinn's preseason. McDaniels talent evaluation already has a spotty record-at best. I would hate to think he lucked out with Orton.


Did Orton look good in Preseason last year? and he had a fair season after a slow start. So far this year he is going gang busters with confidence on the moon.

Do Not base all of your assumptions on what happens in pre season. Last year Simms looked all world.

He may never turn into a FQB but then not sure he has had a chance to prove himself in a decent program. With good coaching.

I'm going to give the kid a chance to prove or disprove his talent. I suspect that Josh is also.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 12:25 AM
Yea, there were lots of holes, but spending what? 2-3 picks on a backup QB in the first? Not sure i would have gone that route if i had that many holes to fill.

I'm guessing that this team has about as many Rookies that it can handle right now and instead of using those picks on more rookies he decided to go with Tebow as there is little doubt in my mind that he is the future FQB here in Den.

I suspect that there is little doubt in most folks minds that will be the case.

SO getting a potential FQB this year is hedging his bets on Orton (who was a question mark till TC) and Quinn who many have written off because he did not shine in preseason.

I do not believe that Josh is as stupid at personnel as a few think. He has a plan and is building the team in his scheme.

I also believe that Pat has bought into it and is not going to yank the rug out from under him. Josh will get enough rope to hang himself or be a super bowl coach. and it will not be this year. IMHO

Northman
10-01-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm guessing that this team has about as many Rookies that it can handle right now and instead of using those picks on more rookies he decided to go with Tebow as there is little doubt in my mind that he is the future FQB here in Den.

I have no doubt with that either, but im just not sure it was the right move to make at this time.


SO getting a potential FQB this year is hedging his bets on Orton (who was a question mark till TC) and Quinn who many have written off because he did not shine in preseason.

Quinn is still up in the air but at the same time Orton still showed much more than Quinn did at this time last year.


I do not believe that Josh is as stupid at personnel as a few think. He has a plan and is building the team in his scheme.

Its not about McD being stupid, at least for me. Its just about a young HC who although has a idea in place doesnt really know which way to go about it. I think he has made some mistakes here and although i expect him at the very least to have one more year he may have cost himself a little bit by taking Tebow instead of helping Orton the best way he could. The logic just doesnt fit because come winter time we will struggle with the run game because we dont have a downhill runner. I sincerely think that McD needs to win the division this year in order for Bowlen to keep having faith in him and what he is doing. Its still early in the year but if we dont win more games than last year i see it as a setback.


I also believe that Pat has bought into it and is not going to yank the rug out from under him. Josh will get enough rope to hang himself or be a super bowl coach. and it will not be this year. IMHO

I think it depends. Bowlen would have to at the very least consider it a mistake if Josh cannot improve this year like he should. Whenever you rebuild you need to see the improvements each year and not regress. I dont quite think he is secure as many seem. If Josh was playing Tebow than maybe but because Orton is starting im assuming as im sure Bowlen is that McD is trying to win the division and make the playoffs. If it doesnt happen im just not sure Bowlen will be so sure. IMO

Elevation inc
10-01-2010, 02:35 AM
I'm open to the idea that McD might have made a mistake on trading Hillis and drafting Tebow, but I think it's too early to make that judgement on either guy.


i think tebow was a solid choice, but not one we needed to make.....at the same time im not so sure they expected Kyle to have the off-season he did either after the draft......

when quinn and tebow were aquired, all that MCD knew was that he needed some competition for orton because orton had some work to do after a so so season.....

i dont think even MCD predicted the jump in play by orton would be this signifigant.

and MCd did make a mistake on hillis its coming clear now.....you dont rush for 144 yds against the ravens if you arent a good back.....hillis could be a viable power and short situation guy here, he just could.....

Tned
10-01-2010, 07:45 AM
I don't know if it's fair to say "woefully negligent." This team had lots of holes to fill in the draft. It's easy to second guess later on. Maybe he drafts a RB and then we're hurting at WR as a result. Or he gets an ILB and we're hurting at Center. All of the DB's taken on the second day made the team, so whose to say those were bad picks. You can't fill all of your needs in the draft every year.

I guess I'm inclined to give him credit for identifying that there was still a need and trying to fill it. Not every personnel move works how how you draw it up.

The woefully negligent, was only thrown in there in response to your comment about it being easy to get that type of RB in the late rounds of the draft, since he didn't do that, and instead rolled the dice on picking one up at the start of training camp, who was available because he was going to be suspended for 1/4 of the season.

LRtagger
10-01-2010, 08:23 AM
My interpretation of the quote was this is a pass first offense. Hillis could contribute to the running game, but we will throw the ball 70% of the time and Hillis couldnt do everything that was asked of him in the passing game. He wasnt a back that could rotate in at any given time. Maybe he felt teams would catch on and do certain things anytime Hillis was in the game. Either they would stuff the run or Hillis wouldnt pickup the blitz.

Who knows. Hillis is a great runner no question, but maybe he didn't show the other qualities they look for from a back in this system. He's the only traded player that I will root for in the future. There were no politics or animosity that lead to his departure. It just wasnt a good system for him to play in. Sometimes even good players dont fit in certain scenarios (ie Albert Haynesworth). It's water under the bridge at this point.

yardog
10-01-2010, 08:53 AM
Hillis is a good kid and has an opportunity to be a good player in this league.

To state what happened here. We have a system that require different things, we use running backs in different ways. When we tried to do that with Peyton, we didn't get the most out of peyton. Moving the backs around the way we do.

I haven't watched any of Cleveland's games, but from what I have seen in stats, he is doing well. I think that Hillis is the kind of guy that if you hand it to him 25 times a game and he is running down hill, he can be very effective. Our offense isn't built around that style.

:tsk:

Softskull
10-01-2010, 09:18 AM
Welcome to the Daddy club Josh McD. Did he say what her name was?

He named her Peyton.

Tned
10-01-2010, 09:20 AM
My interpretation of the quote was this is a pass first offense. Hillis could contribute to the running game, but we will throw the ball 70% of the time and Hillis couldnt do everything that was asked of him in the passing game. He wasnt a back that could rotate in at any given time. Maybe he felt teams would catch on and do certain things anytime Hillis was in the game. Either they would stuff the run or Hillis wouldnt pickup the blitz.

Who knows. Hillis is a great runner no question, but maybe he didn't show the other qualities they look for from a back in this system. He's the only traded player that I will root for in the future. There were no politics or animosity that lead to his departure. It just wasnt a good system for him to play in. Sometimes even good players dont fit in certain scenarios (ie Albert Haynesworth). It's water under the bridge at this point.

Yep, probably the case. One comment on using him in the passing game. He was the leading Razorback receiver two of his four years in Fayetteville, and I believe he was the leading receiver (in terms of receptions) in Cleveland's game against the Ravens.

Also, I believe he is the only Broncos back to have a 100 yard receiving game and 100 yard rushing game in the same season.

So, clearly he can catch. The question is whether or not he can move from position to position, the way he did in college. Lining up at RB, FB, TE, Slot and out wide. Maybe he can't do that in McDaniels' scheme.

Tned
10-01-2010, 09:22 AM
Welcome to the Daddy club Josh McD. Did he say what her name was?

Lindsey Jones posted the name on Twitter. Livia

Northman
10-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Hillis is a good kid and has an opportunity to be a good player in this league.

To state what happened here. We have a system that require different things, we use running backs in different ways. When we tried to do that with Peyton, we didn't get the most out of peyton. Moving the backs around the way we do.

I haven't watched any of Cleveland's games, but from what I have seen in stats, he is doing well. I think that Hillis is the kind of guy that if you hand it to him 25 times a game and he is running down hill, he can be very effective. Our offense isn't built around that style.

:tsk:

Then unfortuantely, we are in big trouble. I can understand it if Peyton wasnt good at blocking or some other area in the backfield. But im not convinced that he couldnt be used around goalline situations which is a sore spot for us when it comes to the running game.

jrelway
10-01-2010, 09:42 AM
hillis was probably bangin mcdaniels wife, thats the only conclussion i can come to on why we got rid of him.

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 09:47 AM
The running backs and full backs that ran at the 2008 combine:




Name POS 40 Time Bench Press Vertical
Chris Johnson RB 4.25 375 43.5
Darren McFadden RB 4.33 330 33
Felix Jones RB 4.37 305 39
Jamaal Charles RB 4.38
Jonathan Stewart RB 4.4 410 36
Steve Slaton RB 4.41 305 38
Ray Rice RB 4.44 39
Rashard Mendenhall RB 4.45 355 33
Peyton Hillis FB 4.56 355 31
Matt Forte RB 4.59 355 33
Tashard Choice RB 4.62 350 37
Jacob Hester FB 4.64 425

So PH is now better than Forte and Choice because he ran a 40 faster? *edit* Not what Tned was saying.

Maybe what Honz is saying about him IS true....and McD is just being nice and not saying it?
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arapaho2
10-01-2010, 09:56 AM
No offense Josh (congrats on your kid) but we need a downhill runner. Im not sure about the logic he is using with this running scheme. Its not currently working and if he isnt using a downhill runner than i have some real concerns for us come winter time.

exactly ...when you power block you want a downhill back, take the hole an go

i see nothing extraoridinary in the offense i've watched concerning rbs..that leads me to believe we dont need a power back or that one like hillis wouldnt work in the offense

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 10:01 AM
I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe Hillis just couldn't follow directions. The plays clearly call for hit the hole and fall down, keeping your YPC between 2.0 and 2.5. My guess is he was a malcontent that wouldn't follow directions, and just kept plowing along for his 5-6 YPC.
hmmmmm....you mixed "couldn't" and "wouldn't", T. So are you saying he's dumb or a malcontent?
:D
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Elevation inc
10-01-2010, 10:18 AM
exactly ...when you power block you want a downhill back, take the hole an go

i see nothing extraoridinary in the offense i've watched concerning rbs..that leads me to believe we dont need a power back or that one like hillis wouldnt work in the offense

the rbs now remind me of 2008...pre hillis alot of dancing around for nothing......and according to MCD we are running zone so what the hell where is the north and south stuff.....we havent done power stuff this year at all really, makes no sense...lead FB goes, Rb goes behind him....OL players plow DL into the second level, this needs to happen to be a power scheme....nothing shows me we are clsoe to that yet....


OL/Rb's/Playcall.....all 3 to me have a part in the current failures...it needs to be fixed.....

enough with hillis though he is gone and aint coming back...its is what it is...moving on now...and hoping we have a soultion somewhere

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 10:31 AM
IDK but i believe that McD had a personal gripe with Hillis maybe Peyton said something during OTA's that pissed McD off and that was that...becouse there i no way u let that kind of talent go...lendale white , now Moroney , andre brown...Hillis is better than all three of them..with that said i'm glad he's puttin up numbers good for him he deserves it
lmao. Ya'll are killing me this "Hillis is better than" BS. One good game (fumble again?) and he's all-world.
Would we still be getting these threads if denver was not going thru some growing pains/injury issues?
I guess I can say that White is a better rb than PH is. MORE YARDS/TD'S. At least I have more than a couple good games in 3yrs to base it on.
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jhildebrand
10-01-2010, 10:38 AM
I'd be genuinely concerned if we are back to running a zone after making the changes we have to go to the pbs. In fact it would be a major concern with many issues to consider.

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 10:43 AM
Well below average run game :D

I'll move on when the McD can "do no wrong" die hards admit the guy, at this point, probably made a mistake!
Nobody, as far as I know, has EVER said he's perfect. So with that said, I guess you'll be "moving on" now?
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Tned
10-01-2010, 10:43 AM
So PH is now better than Forte and Choice because he ran a 40 faster?

Maybe what Honz is saying about him IS true....and McD is just being nice and not saying it?
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Did I say he was better than Forte and Choice? Let me know if you need the cliff notes version of my posts.

Northman
10-01-2010, 10:50 AM
So PH is now better than Forte and Choice because he ran a 40 faster?

Maybe what Honz is saying about him IS true....and McD is just being nice and not saying it?
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It wasnt about whether or not he was better. Only that he did indeed have speed which some claimed he didnt have.

Northman
10-01-2010, 10:52 AM
I guess I can say that White is a better rb than PH is. MORE YARDS/TD'S. At least I have more than a couple good games in 3yrs to base it on.
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Yes, you have more games to go with your example. Which also means White had more opportunities so that hurts your arguement. :coffee:

Northman
10-01-2010, 10:52 AM
Did I say he was better than Forte and Choice? Let me know if you need the cliff notes version of my posts.

Guess he is using that "jump to conclusions" mat too much.

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Yes, you have more games to go with your example. Which also means White had more opportunities so that hurts your arguement. :coffee:
How does it hurt? That doesn't make any sense. It shows he's done it in more than just a couple games.
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rcsodak
10-01-2010, 11:14 AM
Guess he is using that "jump to conclusions" mat too much.
No....you wouldn't let me borrow it.
I saw his disclaimer in a later post and I edited my post before reading your subsequent bandwagon post.

But enuf about me...... :rolleyes:
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pnbronco
10-01-2010, 11:17 AM
Don't have time to read all this so if it has been covered then I'm sorry.

What the Stink after the interview is that some guys don't practice well, but can play well in the game. He said that he heard from multiple sources that Hillis does not do well in practice. He said that it's really hard to put a guy in the game if he is not doing well in practice. Usually those guys only go in when you have no other choice and then it's wow you do get it.

IMO Hillis needed more chances here in Denver, but that water under the bridge. I'm glad he's getting a chance to play now and he is a super sweet kid.

Congrts to Coach for their new baby!

Northman
10-01-2010, 11:18 AM
But enuf about me...... :rolleyes:
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Something we both agree on. Back on iggy you go. Proceed.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 11:22 AM
Yes, you have more games to go with your example. Which also means White had more opportunities so that hurts your arguement. :coffee:

Just perhaps he earned those extra opportunties and hillis did not. In your words "so that hurts your arguement" :coffee:
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scott.475
10-01-2010, 11:27 AM
I'm confused. Career stats:

White has 18 starts, 2,349 yards on 628 carries for 3.74 yards per carry. 1 TD per 26 carries. Lost 2 of 3 fumbles.
Hillis has 10 starts, 617 yards on 120 carries, for 5.14 yards per carry. I TD per 13 carries.

Yet White is a better back?

FWIW, Moreno has 11 starts, 1058 yards on 386 carries for a big 2.74 ypc, 1 TD per 42.89 attempts. Lost 4 of 5 fumbles.

Elevation inc
10-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Don't have time to read all this so if it has been covered then I'm sorry.

What the Stink after the interview is that some guys don't practice well, but can play well in the game. He said that he heard from multiple sources that Hillis does not do well in practice. He said that it's really hard to put a guy in the game if he is not doing well in practice. Usually those guys only go in when you have no other choice and then it's wow you do get it.

IMO Hillis needed more chances here in Denver, but that water under the bridge. I'm glad he's getting a chance to play now and he is a super sweet kid.

Congrts to Coach for their new baby!

water under the bridge for real.....we could have used him here, but he aint, and its a mistake josh will move on from...as should we also....good call PN:salute:

NightTrainLayne
10-01-2010, 11:30 AM
My interpretation of the quote was this is a pass first offense. Hillis could contribute to the running game, but we will throw the ball 70% of the time and Hillis couldnt do everything that was asked of him in the passing game. He wasnt a back that could rotate in at any given time. Maybe he felt teams would catch on and do certain things anytime Hillis was in the game. Either they would stuff the run or Hillis wouldnt pickup the blitz.

Who knows. Hillis is a great runner no question, but maybe he didn't show the other qualities they look for from a back in this system. He's the only traded player that I will root for in the future. There were no politics or animosity that lead to his departure. It just wasnt a good system for him to play in. Sometimes even good players dont fit in certain scenarios (ie Albert Haynesworth). It's water under the bridge at this point.


Also a TON of our running appears to come from the shot-gun and in delays and draws. . .Perhaps this is what McD is talking about when he is basically making the argument the Hillis is not the "right" kind of back for how they use running backs.

Northman
10-01-2010, 11:31 AM
Just perhaps he earned those extra opportunties and hillis did not. In your words "so that hurts your arguement" :coffee:
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Not likely. He was the #2 RB behind Chris Brown at the time and drafted in the second round opposed to the 7th for Hillis. At the time when Hillis was in Denver there was already a few backs in front of him in the lineup but just because White was higher on the depth chart on his respective team doesnt mean he really earned it. It was only that there was more expected of him based upon where he was taken.

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 11:43 AM
I'm confused. Career stats:

White has 18 starts, 2,349 yards on 628 carries for 3.74 yards per carry. 1 TD per 26 carries.
Hillis has 10 starts, 617 yards on 120 carries, for 5.14 yards per carry. I TD per 13 carries.

Yet White is a better back?

FWIW, Moreno has 11 starts, 1058 yards on 39 carries for a big 2.74 ypc, 1 TD per 42.89 attempts.
:tsk: so I guess that means timmy smith that blew up denver in the SB is better than hillis, right?

ugh. :rolleyes:
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Lonestar
10-01-2010, 12:08 PM
I have no doubt with that either, but im just not sure it was the right move to make at this time.



Quinn is still up in the air but at the same time Orton still showed much more than Quinn did at this time last year.



Its not about McD being stupid, at least for me. Its just about a young HC who although has a idea in place doesnt really know which way to go about it. I think he has made some mistakes here and although i expect him at the very least to have one more year he may have cost himself a little bit by taking Tebow instead of helping Orton the best way he could. The logic just doesnt fit because come winter time we will struggle with the run game because we dont have a downhill runner. I sincerely think that McD needs to win the division this year in order for Bowlen to keep having faith in him and what he is doing. Its still early in the year but if we dont win more games than last year i see it as a setback.



I think it depends. Bowlen would have to at the very least consider it a mistake if Josh cannot improve this year like he should. Whenever you rebuild you need to see the improvements each year and not regress. I dont quite think he is secure as many seem. If Josh was playing Tebow than maybe but because Orton is starting im assuming as im sure Bowlen is that McD is trying to win the division and make the playoffs. If it doesnt happen im just not sure Bowlen will be so sure. IMO

On mobile so not sure If I can address all of your points.

As many say IF their is a FRANCHISE QB avaialabe. You take them and allow them to develop. IF he is that guy he is going to be special even thoiugh he may take a couple of years to relearn certain parts of the game.

As for using those choices you do it and live with it.

Anyone that did not think Josh was acumlating picks to make a move of some sort has not figured out he is a wheeler dealer. Look for more of it next year

Could we have picked up some other talent probably. But would they have made the TEAM and would have been the exact fit we needed. Or just maybe spare parts.

YesOrton had more reps last year he came in and made himslef into the GUY. I have to say that if they would have come in at the same time Josh IMO would have shown a preference to Quinn as he was the one he wanted but CLE was not in the trading mode last year so we got Orton instead.

I also believe that the orginaztion made some errors in evaluating lids last year. But I attirbute that to the change in scheme and a short window. For making the conversion. Als believe that the bates were not on the same wave length as Josh therefore we had some less than great picks.

But now the scouting department knows what is expected for the schemes and coaches we have. It is a learning curve for everyone

As for Pat there is no doubt in my mind that he has approved the major player changes.

Also he is going to give Josh the amount if time to fix what was broken here.

He knows that while a winning record is what we all want that he also can see the progress. That we are making and will act accordingly.

By that I mean if we do not have a winning record, as long as we are not getting blown out in games Atlike last few years) and are losing close ones and improving he will allow for that. Knowing that we are on the verge of something special.

However unless it is due to injuries we start getting blown out again in games he will tighten the reins.

Pat has to be pleased. In the progress we have seen this year inspite of the record. Young teams are usually inconsistent. They get better with age.
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Northman
10-01-2010, 12:15 PM
As many say IF their is a FRANCHISE QB avaialabe. You take them and allow them to develop. IF he is that guy he is going to be special even thoiugh he may take a couple of years to relearn certain parts of the game.

As for using those choices you do it and live with it.

Anyone that did not think Josh was acumlating picks to make a move of some sort has not figured out he is a wheeler dealer. Look for more of it next year

Could we have picked up some other talent probably. But would they have made the TEAM and would have been the exact fit we needed. Or just maybe spare parts.

YesOrton had more reps last year he came in and made himslef into the GUY. I have to say that if they would have come in at the same time Josh IMO would have shown a preference to Quinn as he was the one he wanted but CLE was not in the trading mode last year so we got Orton instead.

I also believe that the orginaztion made some errors in evaluating lids last year. But I attirbute that to the change in scheme and a short window. For making the conversion. Als believe that the bates were not on the same wave length as Josh therefore we had some less than great picks.

But now the scouting department knows what is expected for the schemes and coaches we have. It is a learning curve for everyone

As for Pat there is no doubt in my mind that he has approved the major player changes.

Also he is going to give Josh the amount if time to fix what was broken here.

He knows that while a winning record is what we all want that he also can see the progress. That we are making and will act accordingly.

By that I mean if we do not have a winning record, as long as we are not getting blown out in games Atlike last few years) and are losing close ones and improving he will allow for that. Knowing that we are on the verge of something special.

However unless it is due to injuries we start getting blown out again in games he will tighten the reins.


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I agree with a good portion of what you said.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 12:29 PM
There is more to a running back than just carrying the rock. While it is the most important. The other parts of the position may have been the determinig factor.

Y'all also need to realize when the deal went down we needed a backup QB a lot more than a 5th string RB or short yardage specialist. Or a RB that is not IDEAL for what we are trying to acomplish here.

I'm guessing if Josh knew then what he knows today. ORTON killing it and he could get Tebow maybe that decision is not the same one that he came to then.

Hindsight is always the clearest vision.
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Lonestar
10-01-2010, 12:41 PM
Not likely. He was the #2 RB behind Chris Brown at the time and drafted in the second round opposed to the 7th for Hillis. At the time when Hillis was in Denver there was already a few backs in front of him in the lineup but just because White was higher on the depth chart on his respective team doesnt mean he really earned it. It was only that there was more expected of him based upon where he was taken.

Guess I did not make my self clear.

He earned it from his production numbers not he draft status or where he fit on the depth chart.

We all know tahe hillis was not drafted to be a RB he was brought in to be a blocking fb ala griffin we had during the super bowl years.

He failed at that when larsen a LB came in and took his spot.

The absolute only reason he got to play RB is because we did not have anyone else at the time. Had all of those RB not been injured I'm guessing he would have been cut the following TC.

We all know that mike did not use RB over 220# in most cases he wanted under 210# at 240+ hillis was an after thought at best. IMO.
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Lonestar
10-01-2010, 12:44 PM
I agree with a good portion of what you said.

About damn time thought you were lost to the dark side forever. :laugh:
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Northman
10-01-2010, 12:46 PM
About damn time thought you were lost to the dark side forever. :laugh:
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Doesnt mean i agree with everything but you made some valid points. But you failed on the post afterwards. There is no hope for you. :D

Denver Native (Carol)
10-01-2010, 01:34 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16227147?source=rss

Josh McDaniels wasn't a guy who got much sleep to begin with.

This week, the Broncos head coach is even more sleep-deprived than usual. McDaniels' wife, Laura, gave birth on Tuesday to daughter Livia, the couple's third child.

"It's definitely not man-to-man anymore," McDaniels joked today. "It's definitely going to be a zone defense."

Livia joins siblings Jack Thomas, 6, and Maddie, 4, who were both born while McDaniels was an assistant coach in New England.

McDaniels is believed to be the first Broncos' coach with a newborn in team history. He said he left Dove Valley Tuesday afternoon when Laura went into labor. He has been back at the facility the rest of the week, though, preparing for Sunday's game against Tennessee, and then pulling daddy duty when he returns home at night.

"I would never not be a part of that, for any reason," McDaniels said. "All of us, we can all be helped by other people here, other people can take up responsibilities. It was great to be there, and (it's) just another dimension now for us."

tomjonesrocks
10-01-2010, 01:59 PM
It sucks--but even though I am anti-McDaniels--players do get in coaches' doghouses for reasons that aren't fully disclosed personally. This is the only reasonable explanation for Hillis not getting more time especially since the Broncos love the screen pass so much.

Letting Hillis go looks stupid but obviously McDaniels and he had personal problems. It happens.

Tned
10-01-2010, 02:45 PM
It sucks--but even though I am anti-McDaniels--players do get in coaches' doghouses for reasons that aren't fully disclosed personally. This is the only reasonable explanation for Hillis not getting more time especially since the Broncos love the screen pass so much.

Letting Hillis go looks stupid but obviously McDaniels and he had personal problems. It happens.

How long ago did Hillis get benched, wasn't it about 9 months ago? :confused:

rcsodak
10-01-2010, 03:01 PM
How long ago did Hillis get benched, wasn't it about 9 months ago? :confused:
ba-da-boom!
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Dean
10-01-2010, 03:43 PM
I am having trouble swallowing that our offense somehow does not require a short yardage, physical back that has great hands. I've never seen one of those.

The Glue Factory
10-01-2010, 05:17 PM
I am having trouble swallowing that our offense somehow does not require a short yardage, physical back that has great hands. I've never seen one of those.

And the HC answers to you? Here's some other things to consider...

Hillis at best would be a specialist in Denver. Right now we need more non-specialists to fill the void left by 32 players cut that are not currently playing in the NFL. Those 32 players can't be replaced in a single season, let alone two or even three. A large percentage of those 32 players were starters under the previous HC, meaning we've got a lot of holes to fill and don't have the luxury of devoting a roster spot to a specialist that won't be used that often (maybe 4 or 5 downs a game and potentially none.) Remember those 32 players aren't even backups or playing ST in the NFL right now!

Tned
10-01-2010, 05:21 PM
And the HC answers to you? Here's some other things to consider...

Hillis at best would be a specialist in Denver. Right now we need more non-specialists to fill the void left by 32 players cut that are not currently playing in the NFL. Those 32 players can't be replaced in a single season, let alone two or even three. A large percentage of those 32 players were starters under the previous HC, meaning we've got a lot of holes to fill and don't have the luxury of devoting a roster spot to a specialist that won't be used that often (maybe 4 or 5 downs a game and potentially none.) Remember those 32 players aren't even backups or playing ST in the NFL right now!

Why would a guy that consistantly gets 5 YPC and is an excellent receiver only be used 4 or 5 downs a game? We aren't talking someone like Lamont Jordan last year, we are talking about a guy capable of being an every down back. Would he have in front of Moreno? No, but this isn't a short yardage only back.

His team mates consistantly talked about him being one of the best receivers on the team. He played on both the kicking and kick coverage teams. McDaniels thought enough of him to put him back to return kicks, which doesn't usually happend with 245-250lb fullbacks (how many of them are returning kicks in the NFL?)

Granted, based on him being in McD's doghouse, he wasn't even going to get 4-5 carries a game, but to say it is because he is one dimensional is to not know much about Hillis -- what he did in college and what he did in the games he did play in Denver.

atwater27
10-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Hillis is an EXCELLENT receiver out of the backfield. He has EXcellent power, an EXCELLENT motor, SURPRISING quickness and EXCELLENT drive and determination running the ball. We let an EXCELLENT football player slip away from us and we should be ashamed.

The Glue Factory
10-01-2010, 05:37 PM
It was a hypothetical situation based on numerous comments of using him as a short yardage back. Even if he wasn't in McD's doghouse, as a short yardage back he'd have limited playing time, thus a specialist position. Right now McD's just trying to get the framework in place. There's not much room (if any) to have a specialist on the team with a gaping void of 32 NFL rejects not on the team that were 2 years ago.

To draw an analogy, you don't start building a house with siding, windows and shingles. You start with concrete, 2x4s and plywood. Right now McD needs the latter much more than the former right now. Hillis, at best, is the former (based on McD's comments alone.)


Now I agree that Hillis is likely capable of being an every down back, but I can't say for certain as I'm not at any of the practices and can only judge from what I see in game situations. Obviously, for whatever reason, McD didn't see Hillis fitting into the framework he's building in Denver.

Tned
10-01-2010, 05:41 PM
It was a hypothetical situation based on numerous comments of using him as a short yardage back. Even if he wasn't in McD's doghouse, as a short yardage back he'd have limited playing time, thus a specialist position. Right now McD's just trying to get the framework in place. There's not much room (if any) to have a specialist on the team with a gaping void of 32 NFL rejects not on the team that were 2 years ago.

To draw an analogy, you don't start building a house with siding, windows and shingles. You start with concrete, 2x4s and plywood. Right now McD needs the latter much more than the former right now. Hillis, at best, is the former (based on McD's comments alone.)


Now I agree that Hillis is likely capable of being an every down back, but I can't say for certain as I'm not at any of the practices and can only judge from what I see in game situations. Obviously, for whatever reason, McD didn't see Hillis fitting into the framework he's building in Denver.

Concrete, 2x4's, nails..... Yep, sounds like your describing Hillis.

topscribe
10-01-2010, 06:53 PM
Reading between the lines on what he said about Hillis: He probably feels that guys like Hillis are a dime a dozen in this league. A guy who will put his head down and churn out 3-4 YPC, but not really ever be known for breaking a long one or making many guys miss aren't exceptionally hard to find.

That being said...

I'm not saying getting rid of Hillis was right, because he's a little bit better than your average fullback and right now we could really use him... But I don't necessarily think McD's philosophy is wrong either - I can see what he was thinking. I think you can always find a big bruising fullback type with average speed - but our guy (LenDale White) went down with injury and we haven't found his replacement yet. In McD's mind, a QB with 1st round potential is tougher to come by than a 7th rd overachieving FB. Only problem is, Hillis is overachieving and Quinn is underachieving.

Actually, Larsen beat out Hillis at FB. It was at RB Hillis did all the damage . . .

-----

Softskull
10-01-2010, 07:05 PM
Hillis is an EXCELLENT receiver out of the backfield. He has EXcellent power, an EXCELLENT motor, SURPRISING quickness and EXCELLENT drive and determination running the ball. We let an EXCELLENT football player slip away from us and we should be ashamed.

Right now, Hillis is rated sixth in the NFL of %completions. He's been targeted 16 times with 14 catches. Not shabby.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 07:08 PM
And the HC answers to you? Here's some other things to consider...

Hillis at best would be a specialist in Denver. Right now we need more non-specialists to fill the void left by 32 players cut that are not currently playing in the NFL. Those 32 players can't be replaced in a single season, let alone two or even three. A large percentage of those 32 players were starters under the previous HC, meaning we've got a lot of holes to fill and don't have the luxury of devoting a roster spot to a specialist that won't be used that often (maybe 4 or 5 downs a game and potentially none.) Remember those 32 players aren't even backups or playing ST in the NFL right now!

I believe your #32 is wrong irrc was like 9 STARTERS/players on defense who were cut and no longer in the NFL.

Man of the other cuts are still playing somewhere in Pro football. Fro example wiegmen is playing in KC and hamilton is starting in SEA.

But your correct cutting ta man players means something and it may take a few years to rebuild that up. in the mean time we have a bunch of aging vets that are not going to be around to long.


but thanks for bringing that up.

Tned
10-01-2010, 07:11 PM
I believe your #32 is wrong irrc was like 9 STARTERS/players on defense who were cut and no longer in the NFL.

Man of the other cuts are still playing somewhere in Pro football. Fro example wiegmen is playing in KC and hamilton is starting in SEA.

But your correct cutting ta man players means something and it may take a few years to rebuild that up. in the mean time we have a bunch of aging vets that are not going to be around to long.


but thanks for bringing that up.

It was a quote from Xanders a week or so ago, where he said that 32 players that they cut (or otherwise were not on the Broncos) since they took over were no longer in the NFL.

broncobryce
10-01-2010, 07:12 PM
I believe your #32 is wrong irrc was like 9 STARTERS/players on defense who were cut and no longer in the NFL.

Man of the other cuts are still playing somewhere in Pro football. Fro example wiegmen is playing in KC and hamilton is starting in SEA.

But your correct cutting ta man players means something and it may take a few years to rebuild that up. in the mean time we have a bunch of aging vets that are not going to be around to long.


but thanks for bringing that up.

Well there was an article about Xanders that stated something like 32 players, so I dont think he's exaggerating.

Nomad
10-01-2010, 07:14 PM
Congrats McDaniels on the baby girl!! She'll have you wrapped around her finger......I know from experience:D!!

Tned
10-01-2010, 07:14 PM
Here you go:


"We let go of 32 players from 2008 (roster and practice squad) who were here who never played in the NFL again," Xanders said. "There's a plan in place. We're laying the foundation for success. And most of the decisions have been productive."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16077150?source=rss

The Glue Factory
10-01-2010, 07:47 PM
Concrete, 2x4's, nails..... Yep, sounds like your describing Hillis.

As far as I'm concerned, I agree with you. Wish Hillis would have been kept and used. Of all the prominent players no longer with the team over the past 2 years, he's the one I want back the most.

As I said: for whatever reason, McDaniels doesn't it see it that way and he knows much more about the situation than any of us do.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 07:50 PM
It was a quote from Xanders a week or so ago, where he said that 32 players that they cut (or otherwise were not on the Broncos) since they took over were no longer in the NFL.
must have issed that one. I know last year it was 8-9 defenders

thanks

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 07:53 PM
As far as I'm concerned, I agree with you. Wish Hillis would have been kept and used. Of all the prominent players no longer with the team over the past 2 years, he's the one I want back the most.

As I said: for whatever reason, McDaniels doesn't it see it that way and he knows much more about the situation than any of us do.

There was a solid reason he was not getting reps under both regimes, JUST has to be.

With BT as a R coach mike and Josh as HC to much savvy there for it to fall between the cracks. IMHO

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 07:57 PM
Here you go:


"We let go of 32 players from 2008 (roster and practice squad) who were here who never played in the NFL again," Xanders said. "There's a plan in place. We're laying the foundation for success. And most of the decisions have been productive."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16077150?source=rss

since I have to reason to doubt Xman this is even scarier than I thought.

I knew taht were were lacking in talent espcially quality back ups becaus eif one starter went down there was a huge drop off in the level of play.

I really did not realize it was that bad.

Someone was asleep at the wheel, for sure.

The Glue Factory
10-01-2010, 08:02 PM
There was a solid reason he was not getting reps under both regimes, JUST has to be.

With BT as a R coach mike and Josh as HC to much savvy there for it to fall between the cracks. IMHO

I agree. Things don't add up. Something nobody has mentioned yet is the difference of teams, like Portis except in reverse. Sometimes players do better at a different team. But he seemed to do well before Shanny was cut loose. Things don't add up and we're just trying to make heads or tails of it. Maybe the coin landed on its side this time? :confused:

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 08:10 PM
I agree. Things don't add up. Something nobody has mentioned yet is the difference of teams, like Portis except in reverse. Sometimes players do better at a different team. But he seemed to do well before Shanny was cut loose. Things don't add up and we're just trying to make heads or tails of it. Maybe the coin landed on its side this time? :confused:

I had always liked the kid from draft day one, once I had a chance to research him.

The only reason he did not have huge career in college was because mc fadden and jones IIRC were recurited to AR, because they came in and took his spot while he blocked for them.

I figure it it took tht kind of talet to bench him he must have been a good one. and when he started to run with the ball well he was an instant hit with almost everyone.

there were detractors at the time saying a guy that big could never be a RB. hen everyone else was hurt and they had no choice and he became he leading rusher in the 4-5 games he started that year.

He was one of my adoptees .

I joked when he was not playing that he must have had mike catch him with his hand on mikes wife ass because that was the only thing that made any sense to me at the time.

Tned
10-01-2010, 08:24 PM
I had always liked the kid from draft day one, once I had a chance to research him.

The only reason he did not have huge career in college was because mc fadden and jones IIRC were recurited to AR, because they came in and took his spot while he blocked for them.

I figure it it took tht kind of talet to bench him he must have been a good one. and when he started to run with the ball well he was an instant hit with almost everyone.

there were detractors at the time saying a guy that big could never be a RB. hen everyone else was hurt and they had no choice and he became he leading rusher in the 4-5 games he started that year.

He was one of my adoptees .

I joked when he was not playing that he must have had mike catch him with his hand on mikes wife ass because that was the only thing that made any sense to me at the time.

Your thoughts about his college career were correct. Even with McFadden and Jones, he had some decent rushing numbers, but more importantly, he was dominant as a receiver, leading the Razorbacks in receptions two of his four years on the team.

Here's some of the info on him that RMN had put in an article. In addition to this, I believe he is well up on the career reception lists (not just RBs), from what I remember:


The 6-foot-2, 250-pounder totaled 2,624 career all-purpose yards and 23 touchdowns as a three-year starter for the Razorbacks.

At Arkansas, he helped clear the way for two-time Heisman Trophy runner-up Darren McFadden. Hillis played 44 career games (29 starts) at Arkansas, posting school records for running backs in career receptions (118), receiving yards (1,195) and receiving touchdowns (11). He also totaled 203 career rushes for 959 yards (a 4.7-yard average) and 12 touchdowns and 257 career punt return yards and 213 career kickoff return yards.

In 2007, Hillis played 13 games (nine starts) and led Arkansas n receptions (49) and receiving yards (537). He blocked for two individual 1,000-yard rushers (McFadden and Felix Jones) for the second consecutive season and totaled 886 all-purpose yards.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/16/broncos-sign-draft-pick-Hillis-Arkansas-NFL/

Tned
10-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Here's his career receiving stats in Arkansas. When Jones and McFadden came on the scene, they moved him to more of a receiving role, along with his blocking and some rushing.


2005 - Led all Razorback receivers with 38 receptions
2007 - 49 receptions 10th most ever by a Razorback receiver (not just RBs)
118 career Receptions 7th most in Razorback history
1195 Career yards 15th most in Razorback history
11 Career TD Receptions 9th most in Razorback history

The Glue Factory
10-01-2010, 09:03 PM
I gotta admit that all those career yards does not support the argument that he's a great RB when he's leading the team with receptions.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 09:11 PM
I gotta admit that all those career yards does not support the argument that he's a great RB when he's leading the team with receptions.

just means he has soft hands and can catch as well as stampede.

Tned
10-01-2010, 09:16 PM
I gotta admit that all those career yards does not support the argument that he's a great RB when he's leading the team with receptions.

He wound up being behind these guys called McFadden and Jones. Actually, even in his senior year when McFadden and Jones ran for 1,000 each, he had 350 or so yards (something in that neighborhood) and close to 5 ypc, to go with his 500 or so receiving yards. As the article I posted points out, he had 886 all purpose yards both his Junior and Senior years.

The college info, along with the fact he is the ONLY RB in Broncos history to have both a 100 yard receiving game and 100 yard rushing game in the same season, proves he is a little bit more than the short yardage/goal line back, who could only be used 4-5 times a game, as some are painting him.

Lonestar
10-01-2010, 09:21 PM
He wound up being behind these guys called McFadden and Jones. Actually, even in his senior year when McFadden and Jones ran for 1,000 each, he had 350 or so yards (something in that neighborhood) and close to 5 ypc, to go with his 500 or so receiving yards. As the article I posted points out, he had 886 all purpose yards both his Junior and Senior years.

The college info, along with the fact he is the ONLY RB in Broncos history to have both a 100 yard receiving game and 100 yard rushing game in the same season, proves he is a little bit more than the short yardage/goal line back, who could only be used 4-5 times a game, as some are painting him.

While I get waht you are selling There is some reason e does not fit into Joshes scheme, I do not know why but there have been several sources that said he jsut is to slow in picking up the play book and looked poorly in practice.

That coupled with the ever changing play book each week JUST may have been his undoing. WOuld have been a great kid for inside the 5 but Josh jsut does not keep players that are not able to keep up. That is coming from a guy that really likes him
Maybe CLE is the break he needs, I wish him well.

Tned
10-01-2010, 09:40 PM
While I get waht you are selling There is some reason e does not fit into Joshes scheme, I do not know why but there have been several sources that said he jsut is to slow in picking up the play book and looked poorly in practice.

That coupled with the ever changing play book each week JUST may have been his undoing. WOuld have been a great kid for inside the 5 but Josh jsut does not keep players that are not able to keep up. That is coming from a guy that really likes him
Maybe CLE is the break he needs, I wish him well.

I agree we don't know what happened, and at least one reporter last year said he was not dominant in practice (and I think PN said that Stink said something similar).

As to the not picking up the playbook, I have only seen that from you and Bosco on the board. It might be true, but that's seems to be more of a message board assumption/McD defense, than known fact.

I agree, Cleveland is a good break for him and will give him a chance to prove whether or not he's a capable of being an NFL back.

Ravage!!!
10-01-2010, 09:48 PM
I know Shanahan's system is just as complex as McD's, and we've heard Jaws go on and on about how SHanahan changes his plays from week to week so that no opponent can really "zero in" on what he's doing.

So if Hillis was able to keep up with Shanahan's offense, I just have a VERY VERY hard time believing this "he's dumb and couldn't keep up with the playbook" rumor that has started on this message board.

atwater27
10-02-2010, 08:37 AM
While I get waht you are selling There is some reason e does not fit into Joshes scheme, I do not know why but there have been several sources that said he jsut is to slow in picking up the play book and looked poorly in practice.

That coupled with the ever changing play book each week JUST may have been his undoing. WOuld have been a great kid for inside the 5 but Josh jsut does not keep players that are not able to keep up. That is coming from a guy that really likes him
Maybe CLE is the break he needs, I wish him well.

Bul:tsk:lshit.

atwater27
10-02-2010, 08:39 AM
I gotta admit that all those career yards does not support the argument that he's a great RB when he's leading the team with receptions.

gotta question your football knowledge with that comment.:eek:

The Glue Factory
10-02-2010, 08:53 AM
gotta question your football knowledge with that comment.:eek:

I don't follow college ball so don't have a clue about what Hillis did in college.
If you couldn't see that I was only pointing out a flaw in the data provided. Well, :tsk:

Dzone
10-02-2010, 09:55 AM
again and again, Mcd shows why he should NOT be a head coach in this league

Ravage!!!
10-02-2010, 10:37 AM
I don't get when anyone tries to suggest that Shanahan "didn't use Hilis." He did. He wasn't drafted as a TB, he was drafted to be used as a FB. A guy much like Griffith type of player that is VERY good at catching the ball on the swings and screens. Hillis did that from day ONE. Why didn't he use Hillis as a TB earlier? Probably because Hillis was practicing in the role he was intended for, and didn't get the chance to play TB. Once he did, he PROVED he could play the spot. The ONLY reason Hillis didn't continue to play TB was because of injury. So its NOT the same situation between Shanahan and McD, McD had tape and knowledge of Hillis' proven abilities, and chose to ignore them.

There are MANY examples of players not getting their shots because a player is behind people, and no one "knew" what they could do until put into the starting role. Tons all the time. We see 6th round draft choices finally get into the line-up because of injury and prove to be a fantastic player.

A SLOUCH of a player by the name of Kurt Warner is an example as well. Why was he only in the Arena league and not starting? Why was he left on the list for Carolina (Cleveland?) to take for free (when they were expansions) if the coaches could see what he was? Was he supposedly stupid and just couldn't "grasp" the complexities of the offense? No. He didn't have the chances to prove what he could do.

Hillis didn't before Shanahan had to put Hillis in as TB (but he WAS using Hillis in the games prior), and once he proved himself, EVERYONE could see the talent he had at running the ball.

Lets stop making excuses for McD by TRYING to suggest that Shanahan did the same thing. Didn't happen. Lets just accept that it MAY have been a mistake.

scott.475
10-02-2010, 11:02 AM
IIRC, when Mike was coach, didn't we all have the feeling that Hillis was being groomed to play, even when he wasn't starting? I might not remember that right, but I sure don't remember any talk of him being on the bubble or at risk of being cut, etc. In fact, I think I remember reading about how high Mike was on him. Under that regime I had the feeling that the only reason he wasn't starting was so he could assimilate things over time.

Regarding what his practices may have been like, my thought is this: Moreno and Buckhalter must be going gangbusters at practice, but their game day performance is nothing to get excited about. I think I would rather have the guy who is good on game day. We have all seen this time after time, with teams around the league, where guys who are good in practice just don't do it on game day, then you get the surprises: Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Terell Davis, all guys we may not have heard of it wasn't for injury or one particular game day play (Davis was at risk of being cut from the team before his special teams tackle against the 49ers).

It is not tin foil hat of me to think McD made this move in order to put his stamp on the team, and put his full support behind his running backs. Bosses and managers do it in business all the time, especially young ones, I don't know why we should think a guy with McD's energy and confidence in his plan wouldn't do it also.

If we are on a couple year rebuilding program, I wish someone from the organization would come out and just say it so our expectations for the team are at least realistic.

Dean
10-02-2010, 11:22 AM
Here is an article from the Cleveland Bronwns' point of view. I thought that it was interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/cleveland_browns_running_back_11.html


Cleveland Browns running back Peyton Hillis leaves an impression
Published: Friday, October 01, 2010, 7:27 PM Updated: Saturday, October 02, 2010, 12:45 AM
Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
— Browns running back Peyton Hillis is drawing some pretty lofty comparisons following his 144-yard outburst against the Ravens last week.
Ravens nose guard Kelly Gregg compared him to Tampa Bay mauler Mike Alstott, a six-time Pro Bowler. NFL Network's Steve Mariucci likened him to five-time Pro Bowl bruiser Larry Csonka. Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan thought of Csonka and "Earl Campbell, when he was running with those tear-away jerseys." Others have said Hall of Famer and Super Bowl MVP John Riggins.

"It's a complete honor to be mentioned in the same breath as those guys," said Hillis, who has rushed for a TD in each of his first three games. "I've always watched stuff from Larry Csonka and John Riggins back in the day, and I watched Mike Alstott growing up. I don't know if I'm as good as those guys, but I do think the sky's the limit for me."

Granted, it's only been one blockbuster game, but Hillis figures to get more opportunities, beginning Sunday against the Bengals.

"If Peyton is running the ball well, we're going to keep giving it to him," said offensive coordinator Brian Daboll.

During organized team activities in May, Hillis proclaimed that he wanted to be "the big steal" of the Brady Quinn trade, in which the Browns also received a sixth-round pick in 2011 and a sixth-rounder in 2012 that can improve to a third based on Quinn's playing time.

"I don't look at that as being cocky," said Hillis. "I like to be humble. It's just having confidence in myself."

It seemed outlandish at the time, given the fact Quinn planned to challenge for the Broncos' starting quarterback job and Hillis ran the ball only 20 times last year. But now, with Hillis plowing through defenses and Quinn on the bench, he may have been onto something.


Joshua Gunter / The Plain DealerIt's not easy for one man to stop Peyton Hillis, as the Ravens discovered last Sunday.
"Peyton's obviously had a huge, immediate impact here," said left tackle Joe Thomas. "He's got a ton of talent and I'm shocked that anyone would let him go."

A seventh-round pick of the Broncos out of Arkansas in 2008, Hillis began as a fullback but was pressed into service as the Broncos' starting tailback midway through his rookie year following a rash of injuries. In six starts, he rushed for a team-high 343 yards (5.0-yard average) and five TDs. He quickly became a cult hero with his punishing style, his nose for the end zone and his post-TD Hulk impressions.

But the Hillis hysteria quickly came to an end when he pulled a hamstring and was placed on injured reserve Dec. 9. When Josh McDaniels took over for Mike Shanahan in 2009 and drafted running back Knowshown Moreno at No. 12 overall and added some free agent backs, Hillis was relegated back to fullback. Some say fumbling away the opening kickoff against the Browns in Week 2 did him in, but no one knows for sure. The Broncos won, but Hillis was mostly overlooked thereafter.

"What you see is what you get," said Hillis. "I don't think there was any mystery behind it. I didn't get many chances. But I came back to be a better man and a better football player because of it."

Shanahan, now with the Redskins, wasn't surprised by Hillis' 144-yard game.

"He's a tough, downhill runner, very intelligent, and probably had the best hands on our team," he said through the media relations department. "When he got the opportunity, he took advantage of it and was one of the main reasons we won four of our last five games. He was the difference between us going up or down that season."

Hillis still credits Shanahan for giving him a chance.

"Coach Shanahan kind of put me on the map," he said. "He was an amazing coach, a Hall of Famer. He knows what he's doing and he's a terrific offensive coordinator. I give a lot of thanks to him."

Ryan still remembers the pain Hillis inflicted on his Raiders defense in 2008.

"I saw him do some things that made me shake my head," he said. "I couldn't believe he ran Lawyer Milloy over one time, who I have the biggest respect for. Then he broke our kid's shoulder on a tackle, Michael Huff. I was a fan ever since and I was like, 'Man, this guy is pretty good.' "

Ryan was so impressed that he called New York Jets coach Eric Mangini, who were facing Hillis and the Broncos the next week.

"I said, 'Hey, watch out. They've got a back back there. He isn't pretty, but he hurts people,' " recalled Ryan.

The heads-up didn't help. Hillis dropped 129 yards on Mangini's Jets and helped prevent them from making the playoffs that year. It was the first of four losses in New York's last five games. Hillis was also the first back to rush for 100 yards on the Jets that season, in Week 12.

"Kill the guy with the ball? He's out there collecting his own hides," said Ryan. "He's fun to watch, God, he is."

For Hillis, becoming a featured back is a dream come true. He grew up idolizing Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders. His dad, a huge football fan, named him after Walter Payton. But because of his 6-1, 240-pound frame, coaches often pegged him as a fullback. In college, he paved the way for back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons by tailbacks Darren McFadden and Felix Jones, who were drafted in the first round. But Hillis started more games than either of them his rookie year.

"I never thought I had any less ability than those guys," he said. "I'm a smashmouth, throwback style of back. I always thought I was a running back [not a fullback] and I always thought I could do a good job."

The Ravens found out the hard way that he was right. He hopes to show the Bengals, too.

"I'm usually not easily impressed, but he impressed me," Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs told the Carroll County Times.

Added Thomas: "You can see the defense doesn't want to tackle him. They don't want to come up in the hole and put their nose in there. I've seen where Csonka ran right through people. That's Peyton."

The Plain Dealer
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Tned
10-02-2010, 11:32 AM
Here is an article from the Cleveland Bronwns' point of view. I thought that it was interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/cleveland_browns_running_back_11.html

Very good article. Funny, it could have been written by a Denver Post writer back in '08. I particularly loved this part of it, the quotes form DC Rob Ryan:


Ryan still remembers the pain Hillis inflicted on his Raiders defense in 2008.

"I saw him do some things that made me shake my head," he said. "I couldn't believe he ran Lawyer Milloy over one time, who I have the biggest respect for. Then he broke our kid's shoulder on a tackle, Michael Huff. I was a fan ever since and I was like, 'Man, this guy is pretty good.' "

Ryan was so impressed that he called New York Jets coach Eric Mangini, who were facing Hillis and the Broncos the next week.

"I said, 'Hey, watch out. They've got a back back there. He isn't pretty, but he hurts people,' " recalled Ryan.

The heads-up didn't help. Hillis dropped 129 yards on Mangini's Jets and helped prevent them from making the playoffs that year. It was the first of four losses in New York's last five games. Hillis was also the first back to rush for 100 yards on the Jets that season, in Week 12.

"Kill the guy with the ball? He's out there collecting his own hides," said Ryan. "He's fun to watch, God, he is."

TXBRONC
10-02-2010, 11:33 AM
Here is an article from the Cleveland Bronwns' point of view. I thought that it was interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/cleveland_browns_running_back_11.html


Shanahan, now with the Redskins, wasn't surprised by Hillis' 144-yard game.

"He's a tough, downhill runner, very intelligent, and probably had the best hands on our team," he said through the media relations department. "When he got the opportunity, he took advantage of it and was one of the main reasons we won four of our last five games. He was the difference between us going up or down that season."


It complete unfounded speculation for those who say he's not smart enough.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 11:33 AM
I don't get when anyone tries to suggest that Shanahan "didn't use Hilis." He did. He wasn't drafted as a TB, he was drafted to be used as a FB. A guy much like Griffith type of player that is VERY good at catching the ball on the swings and screens. Hillis did that from day ONE. Why didn't he use Hillis as a TB earlier? Probably because Hillis was practicing in the role he was intended for, and didn't get the chance to play TB. Once he did, he PROVED he could play the spot. The ONLY reason Hillis didn't continue to play TB was because of injury. So its NOT the same situation between Shanahan and McD, McD had tape and knowledge of Hillis' proven abilities, and chose to ignore them.

There are MANY examples of players not getting their shots because a player is behind people, and no one "knew" what they could do until put into the starting role. Tons all the time. We see 6th round draft choices finally get into the line-up because of injury and prove to be a fantastic player.

A SLOUCH of a player by the name of Kurt Warner is an example as well. Why was he only in the Arena league and not starting? Why was he left on the list for Carolina (Cleveland?) to take for free (when they were expansions) if the coaches could see what he was? Was he supposedly stupid and just couldn't "grasp" the complexities of the offense? No. He didn't have the chances to prove what he could do.

Hillis didn't before Shanahan had to put Hillis in as TB (but he WAS using Hillis in the games prior), and once he proved himself, EVERYONE could see the talent he had at running the ball.

Lets stop making excuses for McD by TRYING to suggest that Shanahan did the same thing. Didn't happen. Lets just accept that it MAY have been a mistake.

The McD supporters will continue to insist Shanahan had no clue about Hillis and will continue to deny his departure as a mistake for fear of what it says about McDaniels.

To even insinuate Shanahan didn't know anything about Hillis is down right absurd if not silly. Aside from what you posted above (which several posters have stated many times without a legitimate counter from the pro McD crowd) the fact remains that Shanahan DRAFTED Hillis. He obviously saw something in the guy to warrant drafting him.

If that isn't enough, Shanahan VERY EARLY IN TC made it clear that "Hillis has the best hands on the team" and possibly "the best hands he has been around." This coming from a guy who spent time with the NFL's all time catch leader (at retirement) in Shannon Sharpe. He spent years with Jerry Rice. He spent years with Rod Smith. Shanahan knew precisely what he had in Hillis. The denials are purely a way to minimize what has become obvious: McDaniels made a mistake and it is one with little justification!

Tned
10-02-2010, 11:38 AM
again and again, Mcd shows why he should NOT be a head coach in this league

I think he has made his share of mistakes, which IMO are from a combination of inexperience, youthful exuberance and being a bit over-confident. However, I do believe he is now a good HC, and will just get better. Now, the getting better part will require him to learn from his mistakes, but I think he is smart enough and determined enough to be a winner, that he will learn and keep getting better.

I just hope that he gets things turned around here quick enough so that he's with the Broncos long term, rather than learning how to be a HC in Denver, but having success with another team.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 11:44 AM
Here is an article from the Cleveland Bronwns' point of view. I thought that it was interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/cleveland_browns_running_back_11.html

These quotes say it all:


He's got a ton of talent and I'm shocked that anyone would let him go.

You can see the defense doesn't want to tackle him. They don't want to come up in the hole and put their nose in there. I've seen where Csonka ran right through people. That's Peyton.


I'm usually not easily impressed, but he impressed me


"I never thought I had any less ability than those guys," he said. "I'm a smashmouth, throwback style of back. I always thought I was a running back [not a fullback] and I always thought I could do a good job."

He knew he could play TB in college yet didn't raise a stink and wasn't a malcontent. He played his role the coaches asked him to play. No different than here. No different than Cleveland. Time and again the guy wins people over. It's impossible to imagine how anybody wouldn't want this guy especially when it is as obvious to someone like Joe Thomas.

Tomorrow will be interesting.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 11:46 AM
I think he has made his share of mistakes, which IMO are from a combination of inexperience, youthful exuberance and being a bit over-confident. However, I do believe he is now a good HC, and will just get better. Now, the getting better part will require him to learn from his mistakes, but I think he is smart enough and determined enough to be a winner, that he will learn and keep getting better.

I just hope that he gets things turned around here quick enough so that he's with the Broncos long term, rather than learning how to be a HC in Denver, but having success with another team.

I think McD has always been a great coach and coordinator. My problems with him have more to do with his limitless power and how he uses it. I just don't think he is ready for GM duties on top of coaching duties especially being a first time coach let alone a 32 YO (when hired) one.

TXBRONC
10-02-2010, 11:48 AM
The McD supporters will continue to insist Shanahan had no clue about Hillis and will continue to deny his departure as a mistake for fear of what it says about McDaniels.

To even insinuate Shanahan didn't know anything about Hillis is down right absurd if not silly. Aside from what you posted above (which several posters have stated many times without a legitimate counter from the pro McD crowd) the fact remains that Shanahan DRAFTED Hillis. He obviously saw something in the guy to warrant drafting him.

If that isn't enough, Shanahan VERY EARLY IN TC made it clear that "Hillis has the best hands on the team" and possibly "the best hands he has been around." This coming from a guy who spent time with the NFL's all time catch leader (at retirement) in Shannon Sharpe. He spent years with Jerry Rice. He spent years with Rod Smith. Shanahan knew precisely what he had in Hillis. The denials are purely a way to minimize what has become obvious: McDaniels made a mistake and it is one with little justification!

Imho it's impossible to spin that somehow Hillis doesn't fit in this scheme. This is power running game, he's power back who can also catch passes. Imho it also doesn't hold water for people say Hillis was to dumb to figure out this offense out. Shanahan offense is every bit complicated as the one that McDaniels offense.

pnbronco
10-02-2010, 12:02 PM
I'm really glad Peyton is working out in Cleveland and is getting such a great write up, he's just a great kid and I wish him only the very best. I hope he stays healthy and has a long career in the NFL.

broncobryce
10-02-2010, 12:03 PM
Broke someone's shoulder? That's awesome. I like Hillis and want him to do well. God knows the Browns could use some help for Josh Cribbs.

The Glue Factory
10-02-2010, 12:16 PM
again and again, Mcd shows why he should NOT be a head coach in this league

And I suppose you can do a better job? :rolleyes:


/sarcasm off

Ravage!!!
10-02-2010, 12:20 PM
Here is an article from the Cleveland Bronwns' point of view. I thought that it was interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/cleveland_browns_running_back_11.html

Thanks Dean for this article :salute:

Ravage!!!
10-02-2010, 12:26 PM
It is not tin foil hat of me to think McD made this move in order to put his stamp on the team, and put his full support behind his running backs. Bosses and managers do it in business all the time, especially young ones, I don't know why we should think a guy with McD's energy and confidence in his plan wouldn't do it also.

If we are on a couple year rebuilding program, I wish someone from the organization would come out and just say it so our expectations for the team are at least realistic.

scott, I thought this was a very good point and wanted to bring it to bold. I think you may be dead on. I personally don't think it has anything to do with "not fitting the scheme" and I absolutely believe the ones that are spouting the junk about him "not smart enough" are just making up bold lies.

I think Hillis was a fan favorite, but a fan-favorite from another HC. He (McD) just spent the 12th pick in his first draft on a RB, and wanted him to shine. Every week/day the media and fans would ask Josh about Hillis. Hillis had a following here because WE could see what he could do. I just don't think McD wanted to continue to have to answer questions about him. Hillis was not a McD guy, he was a Shanahan guy. McD wants to put his support behind HIS guys.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 01:11 PM
Shanahan offense is every bit complicated as the one that McDaniels offense.

Cue Bosco in

3...

2...

1...

The Glue Factory
10-02-2010, 01:14 PM
I think Hillis was a fan favorite, but a fan-favorite from another HC. He (McD) just spent the 12th pick in his first draft on a RB, and wanted him to shine. Every week/day the media and fans would ask Josh about Hillis. Hillis had a following here because WE could see what he could do. I just don't think McD wanted to continue to have to answer questions about him. Hillis was not a McD guy, he was a Shanahan guy. McD wants to put his support behind HIS guys.

I'd say this makes the best sense out of all the possible explanations. The only thing that hasn't really been discussed is his KO fumble and early struggles that cost the team in games. As I recall he missed blocking assignments and had a couple of costly penalties - just not sure of the number of each of those. That got him in the doghouse and he didn't emerge until he packed his bags for Cleveland. We can't say he wasn't given a chance, he just didn't provide a good first impression and never got a second look. :tsk:

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 01:19 PM
We can't say he wasn't given a chance, he just didn't provide a good first impression and never got a second look. :tsk:

That is the double standard around here that I cannot stand even for a second!

To say HIllis was given a chance is laughable at best. Sure...he fumbled. But so did Moreno several times early on. Fine, pull Hillis but when Moreno not only fumbles but gets banged up and appears obviously winded then I think you would see Hillis again if for no other reason than to spell Moreno.

Then the idea that he was given a chance rubs me wrong because all we heard about Moreno's limitations this season were: give the guy a shot he is just coming back from injury etc...If we are going to say things like that then I think what is good for one player should be good for any!

atwater27
10-02-2010, 02:40 PM
McD wanted to showcase his magical 1st round pick early. He didn't want to even give Hillis, a guy picked by his predecessor, a chance to show his stuff; he didn't want egg on his face.

Lonestar
10-02-2010, 05:53 PM
Bul:tsk:lshit.

sorry you have nothing better to come back with I thought better of you.
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atwater27
10-02-2010, 06:17 PM
sorry you have nothing better to come back with I thought better of you.
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It was the only response deserved.

Northman
10-02-2010, 06:52 PM
So, Shanahan says Hillis is intelligent but some on here call him stupid. lmao priceless.

Ravage!!!
10-02-2010, 07:00 PM
So, Shanahan says Hillis is intelligent but some on here call him stupid. lmao priceless.

So did the coaches in Cleveland. But there is a theory that their offenses aren't nearly as complex, thus (and I'm thinking I'm wording this right) just not as intelligent as McD needs.

See, from what I've been told on these boards is that the average, normal, person just isn't as intelligent as the average football player. Thus, Hillis, probably just has the "normal person's" intelligence and not the "smarter" football players that McD needs.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 08:35 PM
So did the coaches in Cleveland. But there is a theory that their offenses aren't nearly as complex, thus (and I'm thinking I'm wording this right) just not as intelligent as McD needs.

See, from what I've been told on these boards is that the average, normal, person just isn't as intelligent as the average football player. Thus, Hillis, probably just has the "normal person's" intelligence and not the "smarter" football players that McD needs.

Football players in general were smarter than the average player. I recall that thread. I also recall wondering, if that was the case, why Myron Rolle, a Rhoades Scholar, almost wasn't even drafted :lol:

The argument changes to fit the topic. Hillis is smart. He is also good.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 08:37 PM
While I get waht you are selling There is some reason e does not fit into Joshes scheme, I do not know why but there have been several sources that said he jsut is to slow in picking up the play book and looked poorly in practice.

That coupled with the ever changing play book each week JUST may have been his undoing. WOuld have been a great kid for inside the 5 but Josh jsut does not keep players that are not able to keep up. That is coming from a guy that really likes him
Maybe CLE is the break he needs, I wish him well.

Again, it is plain and clear this speculation no longer holds water. PERIOD.

The fact is Hillis would be welcome in 31 other offenses in the NFL. It is sad that he wasn't here.

It should be questioned as it has, how an Offense cannot use such a punishing, brutal back for short yardage any where on the field or as a change of pace.

TXBRONC
10-02-2010, 08:43 PM
So, Shanahan says Hillis is intelligent but some on here call him stupid. lmao priceless.

There isn't anything to base it on that's for sure.

Ravage!!!
10-02-2010, 08:44 PM
Again, it is plain and clear this speculation no longer holds water. PERIOD.

The fact is Hillis would be welcome in 31 other offenses in the NFL. It is sad that he wasn't here.

It should be questioned as it has, how an Offense cannot use such a punishing, brutal back for short yardage any where on the field or as a change of pace.

He said there were "several sources" that suggested Hillis couldn't pick up the offense. Yet, the only "source" I've seen so far, are posters on this message board repeating what some other poster made up.

jhildebrand
10-02-2010, 09:37 PM
He said there were "several sources" that suggested Hillis couldn't pick up the offense. Yet, the only "source" I've seen so far, are posters on this message board repeating what some other poster made up.

I just find the entire dialogue about players being "smart" as absurd. There are player who can play and are dumber than a box a rocks. They are football smart and sometimes nothing else. However, the continued insistance of Hillis being dumb is idiotic in itself. A player who learned Shanahans system first at FB and then instantly contributed in a major way at the RB position should be enough.

Ravage!!!
10-03-2010, 03:44 AM
I just find the entire dialogue about players being "smart" as absurd. There are player who can play and are dumber than a box a rocks. They are football smart and sometimes nothing else. However, the continued insistance of Hillis being dumb is idiotic in itself. A player who learned Shanahans system first at FB and then instantly contributed in a major way at the RB position should be enough.

Its a way of TRYING to take blame away from McD by putting the SAME blame on someone else....even if that means making stuff up to do it. I mean, to some, McD can't make a mistake. It HAS to be the other person. They either were a big baby, a malcontent, or were too dumb, or just didn't want to be here. Whether thats a player or a coach. But its NEVER McD. Its always the other person "not wanting to be here." Funny. I've seen more of they "they didn't want to be in Denver" in the last 1.5 years than I've seen in the last ten prior.

TXBRONC
10-03-2010, 08:30 AM
He said there were "several sources" that suggested Hillis couldn't pick up the offense. Yet, the only "source" I've seen so far, are posters on this message board repeating what some other poster made up.

Agreed. The criticism of Hillis' intelligence was concocted here not out in the media.

TXBRONC
10-03-2010, 08:36 AM
Its a way of TRYING to take blame away from McD by putting the SAME blame on someone else....even if that means making stuff up to do it. I mean, to some, McD can't make a mistake. It HAS to be the other person. They either were a big baby, a malcontent, or were too dumb, or just didn't want to be here. Whether thats a player or a coach. But its NEVER McD. Its always the other person "not wanting to be here." Funny. I've seen more of they "they didn't want to be in Denver" in the last 1.5 years than I've seen in the last ten prior.

Or they weren't versatile enough although we have quite a few of the players we play one position and one only.

Lonestar
10-03-2010, 08:59 AM
Tned I hope your intension was to get all of the hate and disconet into one thread. If it was you suceeded.

I hope that venting like thos has been good and it will be limited to this thread in the ffuture. Maybe this one needs to be stickied.
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Tned
10-03-2010, 09:28 AM
Tned I hope your intension was to get all of the hate and disconet into one thread. If it was you suceeded.

I hope that venting like thos has been good and it will be limited to this thread in the ffuture. Maybe this one needs to be stickied.
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Yes, when I said to McDaniels, "Josh, you're going on the fan. Buddy, you better talk about Hillis. If you don't, I will TP your house."

Clearly, my threat scared him into discussing Hillis, which lead to this thread about what the HEAD COACH OF THE BRONCOS said.

Please don't make me the topic of the thread, and PLEASE do not speak to me about hate and discontent unless you throw a smiley on the end of your comment and make it clear you are making a joke about your posting habits of the recent past.

Dean
10-03-2010, 04:37 PM
Over an hour ago - A 24-yard run by RB Peyton Hillis around right end against a Bengals defense bunched in for a burst between the tackles has clinched the victory and given Hillis back-to-back 100-yard games. Browns RapidReports

Player UpdatesHeadlines
Hillis will remain the starter: Browns coach Eric Mangini said RB Peyton Hillis will remain the starter Week 4 against the Bengals regardless of whether Jerome Harrison is able to return from his thigh injury. Hillis had 22 carries for 144 yards and a touchdown Week 3 at Baltimore.
(Updated 09/28/2010)
Injury Report
No information available at this time (Updated 10/3/10).
Fantasy Analysis
Hillis certainly looked like an every-down back in Week 3, and his performance came against one of the toughest run defenses in the league. The bruising back has scored a touchdown in each of his first three games and is averaging an impressive 5.6 yards per carry. He began the year as just a change-of-pace back for Harrison, but now that the starting job is his, he could emerge as every-week option in Fantasy. Coming off the big performance, he's a must-add off the waiver wire and is no less than a No. 2 Fantasy RB in Week 4.
(Updated 09/28/2010).
Rushing
Year Team G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st
2008 Denver Broncos 12 6 68 343 5.0 19 5 0 24
2009 Denver Broncos 14 2 13 54 4.2 13 1 0 4
2010 Cleveland Browns 3 2 39 220 5.6 48 3 2 11
TOTAL 29 10 120 617 5.1 48 9 2 39
Receiving
Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
2008 Denver Broncos 12 6 14 179 12.8 47 1 2 1 9
2009 Denver Broncos 14 2 4 19 4.8 6 0 0 0 0
2010 Cleveland Browns 3 2 14 86 6.1 16 0 0 0 6
TOTAL 29 10 32 284 8.9 47 1 2 1 15
Kick Returns
Year Team G No Yds Avg Lg TD 40+
2008 Denver Broncos 12 4 65 16.3 25 0 0
2009 Denver Broncos 14 6 134 22.3 24 0 0
2010 Cleveland Browns 3 0 0 --- 0 0 0
TOTAL 29 10 199 19.9 25 0 0
Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2008 Denver Broncos 12 4 3.0 1 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2009 Denver Broncos 14 7 5.0 2 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2010 Cleveland Browns 3 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
TOTAL 29 12 9.0 3 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
Fumbles
Year Team G Fum Lost Fum Forced Own Rec Opp Rec Yds Tot Rec TD
2008 Denver Broncos 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2009 Denver Broncos 14 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0
2010 Cleveland Browns 3 2 1 0 1 0 0 1 0
TOTAL 29 3 2 0 2 0 0 2 0
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CBS Sports is a registered trademark of CBS Broadcasting Inc. SportsLine is a registered service mark of SportsLine.com, Inc.

Northman
10-03-2010, 04:37 PM
Happy for the kid.

Tned
10-03-2010, 04:39 PM
Happy for the kid.

I was watching that game on the slingbox. His teammates went wild when he broke the long run to bring the clock down to the 2 minute warning.