View Full Version : If Kyle Orton's name was Brady Quinn, how would people be talking about his play?
If Orton was a guy that had been hyped up a bunch before entering this league, but had been stuck in a bad situation in Chicago...and then had a good season last year and started off this season on fire, how would fans, the media, and Topscribe be talking about him?
Discuss.
If Orton was a guy that had been hyped up a bunch before entering this league, but had been stuck in a bad situation in Chicago...and then had a good season last year and started off this season on fire, how would fans, the media, and Topscribe be talking about him?
Discuss.
Probably about the way they are talking about the Kyle Orton named Kyle Orton.
Probably about the way they are talking about the Kyle Orton named Kyle Orton.
You see what I'm saying though, right. I mean, what if Jason Campbell was slinging the rock like Orton is...imagine the hype and pub he would get. Tavaris Jackson. Matt Cassel. Vince Young.
LRtagger
09-29-2010, 08:41 PM
What about this....
What if Cutler was putting up the same stats as Orton but the Bears were 1-2. What would the Cutler fans here say?
This thread is full of "ifs".
You see what I'm saying though, right. I mean, what if Jason Campbell was slinging the rock like Orton is...imagine the hype and pub he would get. Tavaris Jackson. Matt Cassel. Vince Young.
No, I don't see it. Based on the football shows I've been watching/listening to, Orton is getting a fair amount of love. Some, same as among fans, are still not complete believers, but he's getting plenty of kudos.
The problem is that three games (1-2 record, 2-11 in last 13) doesn't wipe out the impression he has made over the start of his career.
jhildebrand
09-29-2010, 09:22 PM
Imagine if this team was 2-1 or 3-0 like Matt Cassell and Schaub and other QB's and my guess is the Orton talk would be incessant.
Orton is getting his props but it is tamed as it should be based on our record.
What about this....
What if Cutler was putting up the same stats as Orton but the Bears were 1-2. What would the Cutler fans here say?
Good point, however if Cutler were doing what Orton is doing for the Broncos, I'd guess that our fans would think a lot more highly of Cutler than they do of Orton right now. Not that fans are hating on Orton, but dude is slinging the rock like a maniac, and our running game hasn't helped him out much. Although, the OLine deserves credit for solid pass protection so far this season.
Imagine if this team was 2-1 or 3-0 like Matt Cassell and Schaub and other QB's and my guess is the Orton talk would be incessant.
Orton is getting his props but it is tamed as it should be based on our record.
Which is what McDaniels basically said in the Monday presser. Yards mean nothing. QBs are gauged first by Wins/Losses, then also by 3rd down and red zone performance. According to McDaniels, the Broncos didn't do well in those three categories on Sunday, and that means more than the ~450 yards passing.
No, I don't see it. Based on the football shows I've been watching/listening to, Orton is getting a fair amount of love. Some, same as among fans, are still not complete believers, but he's getting plenty of kudos.
The problem is that three games (1-2 record, 2-11 in last 13) doesn't wipe out the impression he has made over the start of his career.
All good points, but certain QB's for the Broncos that the fans and media had different preconceived perceptions of have had poor records blamed on the defense, special teams, etc. for them.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Kyle Orton is balling for us right now, and we should be happy about it.
All good points, but certain QB's for the Broncos that the fans and media had different preconceived perceptions of have had poor records blamed on the defense, special teams, etc. for them.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Kyle Orton is balling for us right now, and we should be happy about it.
We'll all be happier when we get out of these losing ways. The "moral" victories only go so far.
Beyond that, Orton is turning many around on him. He is showing more mobility, and playing much better. There are still warts in his game, like appearing to rarely look off the primary reciever; inconsistant touch and accuracy; major struggles with deep ball accuracy (although he has hit more this year than last and his past); etc.
He's made great strides, but still has a long way to go. 300+ and 450+ back-to-back games doesn't erase the past and deficiencies, especially when the team is 1-1 in those games and when the defense was lights out against the Colts.
If he keeps it up. Shows a little more touch and accuracy (not as many throws behind receivers and such) and the Broncos start winning, then the love people are showing him will both continue and grow.
dogfish
09-29-2010, 09:40 PM
Which is what McDaniels basically said in the Monday presser. Yards mean nothing. QBs are gauged first by Wins/Losses, then also by 3rd down and red zone performance. According to McDaniels, the Broncos didn't do well in those three categories on Sunday, and that means more than the ~450 yards passing.
hey now, it's not orton's fault our shitty backup RB runs like a pansy!
(edit: referring specifically to red zone here)
maybe JMFMCD should try some different plays, at least until we get knowshon back. . . or maybe he should've just kept hillis. . . :heh:
:hopesmodsdon'tnoticeblatantbaiting:
dogfish
09-29-2010, 09:44 PM
and honz, i'm with ya. . . neckbeard's been pretty much rockin' it, all things considered. . . and there's still room for a lot of growth, both in his play in particular, and this passing offense in general. . .
i wish mcD would turn kyle loose to run some no-huddle. . . he looks pretty profficient in the two-minute drill, and we have all young OLs who can hussle. . . IMO, it may be just what the running game needs-- soften up the defensive front a little by jogging them up the field with the no-huddle, and then start running when they've got their hands on their hips, or have to rotate some backup DLs in. . .
dogfish
09-29-2010, 09:48 PM
What about this....
What if Cutler was putting up the same stats as Orton but the Bears were 1-2. What would the Cutler fans here say?
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7391/3d20waves20optical20ill.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/3d20waves20optical20ill.jpg/)
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DenBronx
09-29-2010, 09:48 PM
They would call him Brady "The Neckbeard" Queen.
DenBronx
09-29-2010, 09:51 PM
What about this....
What if Cutler was putting up the same stats as Orton but the Bears were 1-2. What would the Cutler fans here say?
You've now entered the Twilight Zone.
LRtagger
09-29-2010, 09:56 PM
This thread is full of "ifs".
What if you posted more pics of your hot daughter?
dogfish
09-29-2010, 09:57 PM
tagger, i like the way you're thinking. . .
LRtagger
09-29-2010, 09:57 PM
What if Orton had a rooster neck and Cutler had a neckbeard?
DenBronx
09-29-2010, 10:03 PM
What if Cutler drove a Pilot and Orton secretly had a passion for handball that will make him want to retire early?
silkamilkamonico
09-29-2010, 10:06 PM
They would call him "well on his way to the future franchise QB", AND he's only 27!
Damn that f'n Tim Tebow pick. And yes, I'm serious.
Kyle Orton = Drew Brees v.2.0.
They would call him "well on his way to the future franchise QB", AND he's only 27!
Damn that f'n Tim Tebow pick. And yes, I'm serious.
Kyle Orton = Drew Brees v.2.0.
I was talking to a friend at work about the first round picks the last two years (he's not a Broncos fan, but was pointing out how they were potentially wasted).
Smith and Moreno being very questionable uses of firsts. Smith is obvious, but with Moreno it's because that's a high pick for a guy that wasn't a no-doubt stud back.
DT he really likes and Ayers is obviously starting to make an impression.
So, four first round picks and we get one total bust, one jury is still out, one OLB that looks like he's going to be good and one WR that looks like he could be a beast.
Even if you like the DT and Ayers picks (which I do), what else could the team have gotten with those other two first that would have had a greater impact than Smith and Moreno?
The bonus first rounder really shouldn't even enter the equation, because we traded for it, but if you do then you have boom or bust Tebow. Personally, I like the pick, but others rightly point out that with all the Broncos needs, a long term QB project might not have been the best use of a first round pick.
Broncos Mtnman
09-29-2010, 10:20 PM
What about this....
What if Cutler was putting up the same stats as Orton but the Bears were 1-2. What would the Cutler fans here say?
I know what the non-fans would be saying....
"Loser" "Never won anywhere he played"
That's exactly what they said when he was here and after he was traded.
But now, since it's NOT Cutler doing it, all the sudden losing is OK, because "look at the passing records Orton has."
I bet Bronco fans would take Cutler's stats over Orton's if the Broncos were 3-0 too.
:coffee:
TXBRONC
09-29-2010, 10:28 PM
What about this....
What if Cutler was putting up the same stats as Orton but the Bears were 1-2. What would the Cutler fans here say?
I wouldn't be making an issue of it because he's not a Bronco and I don't think most people would.
Btw at this point Cutler is having as good of year Orton.
topscribe
09-29-2010, 10:56 PM
Good point, however if Cutler were doing what Orton is doing for the Broncos, I'd guess that our fans would think a lot more highly of Cutler than they do of Orton right now. Not that fans are hating on Orton, but dude is slinging the rock like a maniac, and our running game hasn't helped him out much. Although, the OLine deserves credit for solid pass protection so far this season.
Looks to me as if Cutler is. I mean 66%, 6 TD, 2 INT, 870 yds,, 109.7 QBR, 3-0.
He's playing Pro Bowl level right now, isn't he?
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Thnikkaman
09-29-2010, 10:58 PM
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7391/3d20waves20optical20ill.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/3d20waves20optical20ill.jpg/)
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We aren't talking about Tim Lincecum here.
Thnikkaman
09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
hey now, it's not orton's fault our shitty backup RB runs like a pansy!
(edit: referring specifically to red zone here)
maybe JMFMCD should try some different plays, at least until we get knowshon back. . . or maybe he should've just kept hillis. . . :heh:
:hopesmodsdon'tnoticeblatantbaiting:
Orton and his receivers need to be on the same page more often as well.
topscribe
09-29-2010, 11:01 PM
We'll all be happier when we get out of these losing ways. The "moral" victories only go so far.
Beyond that, Orton is turning many around on him. He is showing more mobility, and playing much better. There are still warts in his game, like appearing to rarely look off the primary reciever; inconsistant touch and accuracy; major struggles with deep ball accuracy (although he has hit more this year than last and his past); etc.
He's made great strides, but still has a long way to go. 300+ and 450+ back-to-back games doesn't erase the past and deficiencies, especially when the team is 1-1 in those games and when the defense was lights out against the Colts.
If he keeps it up. Shows a little more touch and accuracy (not as many throws behind receivers and such) and the Broncos start winning, then the love people are showing him will both continue and grow.
Hmmm . . . can't say as I agree. 66% comp does not smack of inaccuracy,
although I was awfully unhappy with that fade intended for D. Thomas.
And touch was always considered a strong point of his.
I'm just with McDaniels in that I'm looking for a little bit stronger Red Zone
performance from him . . .
-----
Hmmm . . . can't say as I agree. 66% comp does not smack of inaccuracy,
although I was awfully unhappy with that fade intended for D. Thomas.
And touch was always considered a strong point of his.
I'm just with McDaniels in that I'm looking for a little bit stronger Red Zone
performance from him . . .
-----
I'm not talking stats, I'm talking watching the passes. He's struggled with accuracy this year. His WR's have been his best friend, with many great catches for completions.
As I said, he's shown a lot of improvement, but the touch and accuracy is an area he's been struggling in.
Thnikkaman
09-29-2010, 11:09 PM
I'm not talking stats, I'm talking watching the passes. He's struggled with accuracy this year. He's WR's have been his best friend, with many great catches for completions.
As I said, he's shown a lot of improvement, but he needs to make sure he is on the same page with his receivers.
I would agree with you if you change your statement to the above.
I would agree with you if you change your statement to the above.
You're right, that's part of the problem. The int against the Colts might have been not on the same page with the receivers, or might have been a bad throw. Hard to know. However, I'm talking about things like throwing behind Lloyd the week before, or into the ground and Royal having to dive for it. Rifling it on short throws that call for touch, and winding up incomplete. He's throwing deep more which is great, but his short/intermediate passes are not ass accurate as last year.
topscribe
09-29-2010, 11:16 PM
I'm not talking stats, I'm talking watching the passes. He's struggled with accuracy this year. He's WR's have been his best friend, with many great catches for completions.
As I said, he's shown a lot of improvement, but the touch and accuracy is an area he's been struggling in.
I've watched him, too, and I personally have been satisfied with his accuracy,
except in the Red Zone so far.
But you can't say that he made a receiver dive for a ball and call that
inaccurate. For instance, Lloyd made one spectacular circus catch on a dive,
which later came out that Orton intentionally threw it so Lloyd could dive for
it because Lloyd was covered. But it initially looked as if Orton was off the
mark.
Another example is where Orton appeared to throw the ball into the ground
on that 4th and 3. It came out that Orton threw a Hot route but Lloyd ran
a fade instead of coming back toward the QB on a Hot route, as he should
have.
Not to say Orton hasn't missed. But when a QB throws for 66%, that means
he missed 34% of his throws. They are usually overthrown or underthrown.
Some, of course, are throwaways. But the good QBs miss their share of
passes.
I still maintain that if Orton gets his RZ problems straightened out, I will
have no problem with much of anything he's doing . . .
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silkamilkamonico
09-29-2010, 11:22 PM
I was talking to a friend at work about the first round picks the last two years (he's not a Broncos fan, but was pointing out how they were potentially wasted).
Smith and Moreno being very questionable uses of firsts. Smith is obvious, but with Moreno it's because that's a high pick for a guy that wasn't a no-doubt stud back.
DT he really likes and Ayers is obviously starting to make an impression.
So, four first round picks and we get one total bust, one jury is still out, one OLB that looks like he's going to be good and one WR that looks like he could be a beast.
Even if you like the DT and Ayers picks (which I do), what else could the team have gotten with those other two first that would have had a greater impact than Smith and Moreno?
The bonus first rounder really shouldn't even enter the equation, because we traded for it, but if you do then you have boom or bust Tebow. Personally, I like the pick, but others rightly point out that with all the Broncos needs, a long term QB project might not have been the best use of a first round pick.
great post and I couldn't agree more.
What if you posted more pics of your hot daughter?
Then this thread would be moved to the black hole.
Looks to me as if Cutler is. I mean 66%, 6 TD, 2 INT, 870 yds,, 109.7 QBR, 3-0.
He's playing Pro Bowl level right now, isn't he?
-----
He is, but the interceptions are coming. I believe he has had 7 INT's dropped. I know it was 5 going into week 3.
Also, I agree that Orton's biggest weakness is putting touch on his throws. It will always hold him back from being an elite QB.
silkamilkamonico
09-29-2010, 11:31 PM
I think Orton has been outstanding this year, and has been very good in the short to medium throws. Every Qb in the NFL makes bad throws and gets bailed out by his Wr's every Sunday. I saw Wayne bail out Manning more than couple times last Sunday. I saw Manning miss on throws that we're in the 7-15 yard range.
With all due respect, I think trying to argue imperfection in those areas is nit picking, because there isn't a QB in the NFl that doesn't have some bad throws in those areas every sunday, with the exception of maybe a performance or 2 throughout the season.
Northman
09-30-2010, 07:37 AM
Imagine if this team was 2-1 or 3-0 like Matt Cassell and Schaub and other QB's and my guess is the Orton talk would be incessant.
Orton is getting his props but it is tamed as it should be based on our record.
Exactly.
This all goes back to my statements a few weeks ago. Kyle may end up having a pro bowl year judging by stats. However, in the end its about wins and when being discussed in that "elite" group you have to be a winner. If the Bears were 1-2 there would be a lot of criticism on Jay (as if there isnt enough already). But the because Jay has helped the Bears to a 3-0 start he will continue to be talked about. I remember when the Bears were doing well with Orton that Kyle got talked about a lot and that maybe the Bears made the wrong choice with Grossman. So in terms of that Kyle has done very well on his own merits both in Chi-town and in Denver. The problem is since he isnt leading us to victories and because there are at the very least 3 QB's who are winners and constantly leading their teams to the playoffs Kyle wont be discussed as much. If guys like Young and etc get talked about its only because they were first rounders. Same would of been for Brady Quinn if he had actually amounted to anything.
Northman
09-30-2010, 07:40 AM
All good points, but certain QB's for the Broncos that the fans and media had different preconceived perceptions of have had poor records blamed on the defense, special teams, etc. for them.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Kyle Orton is balling for us right now, and we should be happy about it.
Again, i fail to see where people are upset with Kyle's play. People are just upset that we arent winning and a lot of the ire is on the running game, etc. Last year Kyle took more heat than he has taken this year so i dont really see what your point is here.
I think Orton has been outstanding this year, and has been very good in the short to medium throws. Every Qb in the NFL makes bad throws and gets bailed out by his Wr's every Sunday. I saw Wayne bail out Manning more than couple times last Sunday. I saw Manning miss on throws that we're in the 7-15 yard range.
With all due respect, I think trying to argue imperfection in those areas is nit picking, because there isn't a QB in the NFl that doesn't have some bad throws in those areas every sunday, with the exception of maybe a performance or 2 throughout the season.
I don't disagree, I was talking about the areas that he clearly needs to improve on. IMO, it's being too focused on the primary receivers, often ignoring (not seeing) open recievers, and touch accuracy issues.
Overall, he's playing great, and showing some mobility to boot (pun intended). However, in response to the OP, there are still reasons besides the record holding Orton back from being talked about as an elite passer.
LRtagger
09-30-2010, 09:04 AM
I know what the non-fans would be saying....
"Loser" "Never won anywhere he played"
That's exactly what they said when he was here and after he was traded.
But now, since it's NOT Cutler doing it, all the sudden losing is OK, because "look at the passing records Orton has."
I bet Bronco fans would take Cutler's stats over Orton's if the Broncos were 3-0 too.
:coffee:
Funny, that didnt happen last year when we were 3-0, 4-0, 5-0, 6-0. It was all "luck" and "smoke and mirrors".
Nice signature by the way.
:coffee:
Ravage!!!
09-30-2010, 09:39 AM
If Orton was a guy that had been hyped up a bunch before entering this league, but had been stuck in a bad situation in Chicago...and then had a good season last year and started off this season on fire, how would fans, the media, and Topscribe be talking about him?
Discuss.
I think they would be talking about him the same as they are now. Orton has never had a high profile name, and when he plays well, they talk about him. When he doesn't, they don't Quinn was a first round draft choice from a college that still is one of the most watched college programs in the nation.
Tim Tebow, is going to have people talking about him when he's not even on the field. They have a stupid "tebow tracker" that was running on websites when the guy is listed as a 3rd QB. Thats just part of it.
Denver isn't exactly the largest market in the league. If/when Orton establishes himself as a top tier QB, he'll get more attention because he's worked his way up. He gets about as much attention as guys like Brad Johnson did, or Elvis Grbac. Why? Because we aren't in a large market and we are NOT winning. Cassel is getting more attention because the team is winning. That brings media.
TXBRONC
09-30-2010, 10:10 PM
Funny, that didnt happen last year when we were 3-0, 4-0, 5-0, 6-0. It was all "luck" and "smoke and mirrors".
Nice signature by the way.
:coffee:
Among whom? Because it sure wasn't here Tagger.
TXBRONC
09-30-2010, 10:22 PM
He is, but the interceptions are coming. I believe he has had 7 INT's dropped. I know it was 5 going into week 3.
True but so has Orton and Manning and every other starter in League. What is the sense in criticizing Cutler who has stats as good as Orton's and his team is winning? Cutler's "almost interceptions" doesn't justify our problems nor does Orton having really good stats make losing acceptable.
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