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arapaho2
09-27-2010, 11:16 AM
1. defense....my biggest concern going into the game was the defense but they held up very well for 3 qrts. other then the points off turnovers they held manning to 3 first half points. they did fade in the second half, but its very hard to shut out manning.

once again we got very little pressure, allowed way to many big 3rd down conversions and cox was repeatadly torched in single coverage. the run defense was superb!!! haggens was a beast...overall a B+

special teams.... where? no returns, a muffed punt..not good

offense: orton and the passing game was spetacular...between the 20's:coffee:. llyod was solid, as was gaff, but i cant help but miss the presence of a big pass catching TE in the middle of the field:mad:.

every one of joshes diehard supporters use the former redzone offense as a reason change was needed...yet we were 0-5 in the redzone..0-5!!!! THAT IS TERRIBLE AND TOTALY INEFFECTIVE...how is that improved?
SURE WE PUT UP A LOT OF YARDS, but started very slow..3n out, 4n out, muffed punt, int and when we did get rolling, we couldnt finish

play calling: was great between the 20's, totaly ineffective in the crucial redzone..an area josh came to denver to fix.
we had 4 tries from the 1 yard line in the 1st rz drive...and got zero points...our next rz try from the 16...a fg...our next from the 17..another fg...our next another 4 play failure, followed by the 5th rz failure

is the right side back shoulder fade THE ONLY FRIGGEN GOAL LINE PASS PLAY WE HAVE?
i thought the change to a power scheme was supposed to get those TDs in the rz where the ZBS couldnt?...maybe the change to the PBS was a mistake if we still cant score goalline TDs...at least the ZBS produce rushing yards:coffee:

i put this loss sqaurely on the offense

overall a loss not unexpected...but still we had a chance to win and should have if the offense coulda finished...passing on two fgs was a mistake...had we kicked them it would have had the
game at 20-19 in the forth...and even when manning scored the td..it was still a one possesion game had we taken the 6 points...who knows how that woulda changed the complexity of the game

llets hope that issue is corrected next week

The Glue Factory
09-27-2010, 11:30 AM
Not much I disagree with there, other than we got a pop-up perfection game at OL and it takes time for those guys to learn to work together. Would have been nice to see Hillis work for the 1 yd TD instead of Maroney but can't do anything about that now.

As frustrating as yesterday was it was still much, MUCH, MUCH better than the outings we've seen from previous HC so things are getting better in Broncoland. Just wish it wasn't so slow. Still it's progress and I'd rather have steady progress than three steps forward and five back.

MasterShake
09-27-2010, 11:42 AM
Not much I disagree with there, other than we got a pop-up perfection game at OL and it takes time for those guys to learn to work together. Would have been nice to see Hillis work for the 1 yd TD instead of Maroney but can't do anything about that now.

As frustrating as yesterday was it was still much, MUCH, MUCH better than the outings we've seen from previous HC so things are getting better in Broncoland. Just wish it wasn't so slow. Still it's progress and I'd rather have steady progress than three steps forward and five back.

We really missed Moreno yesterday on that Goal Line try. He would have gotten that, I have no doubt in my mind. I don't know why they don't run a stretch in that situation with the smaller backs when Moreno out? Guess thats why I sit and watch and not coach! :lol:

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 11:44 AM
Not much I disagree with there, other than we got a pop-up perfection game at OL and it takes time for those guys to learn to work together. Would have been nice to see Hillis work for the 1 yd TD instead of Maroney but can't do anything about that now.

As frustrating as yesterday was it was still much, MUCH, MUCH better than the outings we've seen from previous HC so things are getting better in Broncoland. Just wish it wasn't so slow. Still it's progress and I'd rather have steady progress than three steps forward and five back.


it does seem to be coming around..but still...lots of yards, little points...low rz %...hows that better than the shanny era

and yes i did forget the oline...simply put...great..solid protection against some of the best pass rushers in the game

speaking of hillis...for the season...39 carries..220 yards..5.6 ypc..3 tds
bronco team...81 carries...201 yards...2.4ypc..3 tds

Slick
09-27-2010, 11:46 AM
I pretty much agree Rap, although I thought the play calling even in the goal line situations was fine, the execution just sucked.

I thought the o line did a pretty solid job considering the injuries and youth there. The running backs let us down IMO.

I know McDaniels likes his backs to be versatile and that's fine but one of them needs to be able to run with better vision and speed. Maybe when Moreno and Maroney are healthy we'll see that. :whoknows:

Sometimes I think screw these multi purpose backs and give me at least one guy who can tote the rock with speed power and authority. I'll live with a missed blocking assignment or a dropped screen pass once in a while if a guy can run like a monster.

Mike
09-27-2010, 11:49 AM
it does seem to be coming around..but still...lots of yards, little points...low rz %...hows that better than the shanny era

and yes i did forget the oline...simply put...great..solid protection against some of the best pass rushers in the game

speaking of hillis...for the season...39 carries..220 yards..5.6 ypc..3 tds
bronco team...81 carries...201 yards...2.4ypc..3 tds

I am a Hillis fan too and did not like the trade or the way McD handled that situation. However, I will point out that the Browns running game faired pretty well pre-Hillis. The Broncos obviously have a lot of kinks to work out, which is not all that uncommon for a young team.

The Glue Factory
09-27-2010, 11:56 AM
it does seem to be coming around..but still...lots of yards, little points...low rz %...hows that better than the shanny era

and yes i did forget the oline...simply put...great..solid protection against some of the best pass rushers in the game

speaking of hillis...for the season...39 carries..220 yards..5.6 ypc..3 tds
bronco team...81 carries...201 yards...2.4ypc..3 tds

I meant outings against Indy. Sorry for the lack of clarity there. Under McD we've had two winnable games. Under Shanny the only thing we had a chance of winning was against their backups when the starters were resting for the playoffs.

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 11:58 AM
I pretty much agree Rap, although I thought the play calling even in the goal line situations was fine, the execution just sucked.

I thought the o line did a pretty solid job considering the injuries and youth there. The running backs let us down IMO.

I know McDaniels likes his backs to be versatile and that's fine but one of them needs to be able to run with better vision and speed. Maybe when Moreno and Maroney are healthy we'll see that. :whoknows:

Sometimes I think screw these multi purpose backs and give me at least one guy who can tote the rock with speed power and authority. I'll live with a missed blocking assignment or a dropped screen pass once in a while if a guy can run like a monster.

exactly....i know my opinion isnt agreed on...but i still dont see any speed or burst from moreno...im not talking open field speed... but speed and burst through the hole

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 12:00 PM
I meant outings against Indy. Sorry for the lack of clarity there. Under McD we've had two winnable games. Under Shanny the only thing we had a chance of winning was against their backups when the starters were resting for the playoffs.

the differance is under shanny the offense wasnt why we couldnt beat manning...the defense was

mcd losses against the colts isnt on the defense its on the offense..supposedly his specialty

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 12:01 PM
I am a Hillis fan too and did not like the trade or the way McD handled that situation. However, I will point out that the Browns running game faired pretty well pre-Hillis. The Broncos obviously have a lot of kinks to work out, which is not all that uncommon for a young team.


our running game faired pretty well pre- hillis too...

Mike
09-27-2010, 12:04 PM
our running game faired pretty well pre- hillis too...

Deflection from the argument....but still, how'd that run game help us out over the last 10 years? New coach, new system = growing pains. :noidea:

MileHighCrew
09-27-2010, 12:06 PM
Growing pains, this team is getting better

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:11 PM
offense: orton and the passing game was spetacular...between the 20's:coffee:. llyod was solid, as was gaff, but i cant help but miss the presence of a big pass catching TE in the middle of the field:mad:.



I don't think a pass catching TE is going to make any difference in this offense. Denver has no problems moving the ball in between the 20s, so we're not losing anything with a pass catching TE. It would be nice to have a big red zone target, but we haven't had that since Shanahan, and if McDaniels continues to try and force the ball into the endzone via run game a pass catching TE is irrelevant.

NightTrainLayne
09-27-2010, 12:13 PM
the differance is under shanny the offense wasnt why we couldnt beat manning...the defense was

mcd losses against the colts isnt on the defense its on the offense..supposedly his specialty

Keep in mind that the offense does seem to be improving, even with some substantial injuries.

As said above, constant improvement is where we're heading. Eventually we'll get there.

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:15 PM
This was a very tough game to lose.

We dominated this game on both sides of the ball. But we still found a way to lose.

Slick
09-27-2010, 12:19 PM
18 runs and 57 pass attempts yesterday guys. Wow!

Rex
09-27-2010, 12:26 PM
18 runs and 57 pass attempts yesterday guys. Wow!

Hi Slick.

Slick
09-27-2010, 12:28 PM
High Rex.

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't think a pass catching TE is going to make any difference in this offense. Denver has no problems moving the ball in between the 20s, so we're not losing anything with a pass catching TE. It would be nice to have a big red zone target, but we haven't had that since Shanahan, and if McDaniels continues to try and force the ball into the endzone via run game a pass catching TE is irrelevant.


tell that to the teams with a big pass catching TE...and see how many Tds those Tes have in the red zone

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:45 PM
18 runs and 57 pass attempts yesterday guys. Wow!

I like it.

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:48 PM
tell that to the teams with a big pass catching TE...and see how many Tds those Tes have in the red zone

How many "big pass catching TE's" are in the NFL? 5? Better yet, how many top offenses in the NFL have a "big pass catching TE"? Better yet, how many "big pass catching TE's" flourished in the greatest offense in NFL history at NE? 0?

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 12:49 PM
I don't think a pass catching TE is going to make any difference in this offense. Denver has no problems moving the ball in between the 20s, so we're not losing anything with a pass catching TE. It would be nice to have a big red zone target, but we haven't had that since Shanahan, and if McDaniels continues to try and force the ball into the endzone via run game a pass catching TE is irrelevant.


which isweird because supposedly this offense is mirrored after the pats O...whom when out and drafted a big pass catching TE

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 12:50 PM
How many "big pass catching TE's" are in the NFL? 5? Better yet, how many top offenses in the NFL have a "big pass catching TE"? Better yet, how many "big pass catching TE's" flourished in the greatest offense in NFL history at NE? 0?


do we have moss or brady?....if not i cannot understand how a 6'5 Te like a TS would not be a benefit in the redzone

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:51 PM
which isweird because supposedly this offense is mirrored after the pats O...whom when out and drafted a big pass catching TE

Right, after NOT having one in the years they were setting NFL records.

Slick
09-27-2010, 12:51 PM
I like it.

It's not like we had a choice. Buck and Maroney sucked out loud.

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:52 PM
do we have moss or brady?....if not i cannot understand how a 6'5 Te like a TS would not be a benefit in the redzone

They would benefit, but teams find ways to score in the redzone without a TE. And again, we don't even know if we are missing one, because McDaniels refuses to pass into the endzone, especially along the goal line. He insists on trying to force it in with the run.

silkamilkamonico
09-27-2010, 12:54 PM
It's not like we had a choice. Buck and Maroney sucked out loud.

I love the ratio though. I would pass all game if I could. Greatest show on turf style.

Slick
09-27-2010, 01:16 PM
I love the ratio though. I would pass all game if I could. Greatest show on turf style.

Maybe so but not against the Colts silk. The 32nd ranked run defense? I guess the plan was to try to keep Peyton off the field with a controlled passing game. Still, we should have gotten a lot more out of those 18 carries than we did.

Day1BroncoFan
09-27-2010, 01:17 PM
I see a lot of positive comments in here today. I needed that after the game yesterday.

I was not thinking positive thoughts.

Maybe it's better than I thought.

Lonestar
09-27-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't think a pass catching TE is going to make any difference in this offense. Denver has no problems moving the ball in between the 20s, so we're not losing anything with a pass catching TE. It would be nice to have a big red zone target, but we haven't had that since Shanahan, and if McDaniels continues to try and force the ball into the endzone via run game a pass catching TE is irrelevant.

Instead of a big TE we have BIG WR's Not only tall but big in Thomas, who was IIRC the state HS high Jump champion which means he can out jump a guy 2" taller than he is. and will be able to out jump most CB's. who are typically 3-5 inches shorter than he is.

Last week we saw a little of the "DT" coming attractions.



This was a very tough game to lose.

We dominated this game on both sides of the ball. But we still found a way to lose.

yep we did, but historically we have never dominated Indy in any manner. Whoops I'll take that back back in 03 or so when Q put like 160 yards on them. then a few weeks later they kicked our asses in the playoffs AGAIN.

Now it is time for the team to grow a bit more. Each game should lead to improvements in certain areas. There is little doubt that the oline will see a lot more goal line work this week.

I saw a lot of positives in that game. a lot of them.

Elevation inc
09-27-2010, 01:39 PM
1. defense....my biggest concern going into the game was the defense but they held up very well for 3 qrts. other then the points off turnovers they held manning to 3 first half points. they did fade in the second half, but its very hard to shut out manning.

once again we got very little pressure, allowed way to many big 3rd down conversions and cox was repeatadly torched in single coverage. the run defense was superb!!! haggens was a beast...overall a B+

special teams.... where? no returns, a muffed punt..not good

offense: orton and the passing game was spetacular...between the 20's:coffee:. llyod was solid, as was gaff, but i cant help but miss the presence of a big pass catching TE in the middle of the field:mad:.

every one of joshes diehard supporters use the former redzone offense as a reason change was needed...yet we were 0-5 in the redzone..0-5!!!! THAT IS TERRIBLE AND TOTALY INEFFECTIVE...how is that improved?
SURE WE PUT UP A LOT OF YARDS, but started very slow..3n out, 4n out, muffed punt, int and when we did get rolling, we couldnt finish

play calling: was great between the 20's, totaly ineffective in the crucial redzone..an area josh came to denver to fix.
we had 4 tries from the 1 yard line in the 1st rz drive...and got zero points...our next rz try from the 16...a fg...our next from the 17..another fg...our next another 4 play failure, followed by the 5th rz failure

is the right side back shoulder fade THE ONLY FRIGGEN GOAL LINE PASS PLAY WE HAVE?
i thought the change to a power scheme was supposed to get those TDs in the rz where the ZBS couldnt?...maybe the change to the PBS was a mistake if we still cant score goalline TDs...at least the ZBS produce rushing yards:coffee:

i put this loss sqaurely on the offense

overall a loss not unexpected...but still we had a chance to win and should have if the offense coulda finished...passing on two fgs was a mistake...had we kicked them it would have had the
game at 20-19 in the forth...and even when manning scored the td..it was still a one possesion game had we taken the 6 points...who knows how that woulda changed the complexity of the game

llets hope that issue is corrected next week

i see nothing wrong with this post:beer:

The Glue Factory
09-27-2010, 01:51 PM
the differance is under shanny the offense wasnt why we couldnt beat manning...the defense was

mcd losses against the colts isnt on the defense its on the offense..supposedly his specialty

If the offense was so good then why did we get spanked on the score board? Shouldn't we have at least kept it close? But looking at the games we weren't even in a position to win in the second half with Shanny (except in 2006 when we lost by only 3.) McD's teams have given us the chance to win late. I call that a much better showing, regardless of which side of the ball is letting us down.

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 03:45 PM
If the offense was so good then why did we get spanked on the score board? Shouldn't we have at least kept it close? But looking at the games we weren't even in a position to win in the second half with Shanny (except in 2006 when we lost by only 3.) McD's teams have given us the chance to win late. I call that a much better showing, regardless of which side of the ball is letting us down.


if you cant stop manning ...who can keep up?....i dont care how good a offense is...if you allow manning to score at will..your gonna lose..period

no game in 08
in 2007 we had a 1st qrter lead...had the score 13-14 at half/...then watched the colts reel off 24 second half points
2006 defense allowed 34 points including 27 second half points

point is the defense has always been the achilies heel for us against the colts...until 2009 and 2010 when it sifted to the offense

Bronco4ever
09-27-2010, 04:06 PM
I'd love it if we could run a bootleg more often. I know Orton doesn't have the mobility of Jake or Jay to run a more effective boot, but it could have done wonders down in the red zone yesterday. We run a play action pretty frequently, which is ok, but nothing gets the defense moving in the wrong direction than a well timed bootleg.

Bring back the boot! :elefant:

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 05:45 PM
I'd love it if we could run a bootleg more often. I know Orton doesn't have the mobility of Jake or Jay to run a more effective boot, but it could have done wonders down in the red zone yesterday. We run a play action pretty frequently, which is ok, but nothing gets the defense moving in the wrong direction than a well timed bootleg.

Bring back the boot! :elefant:

i think the boot woulda worked yesterday in the goal line at least once