Maroney

[weazel]

wow...

dudes got some moves!

Everytime he gets the ball he explodes to the line of scrimmage and then someone must throw some cardboard on the field and starts playing some Run DMC, because he just stops there and starts bustin' a move!

It's just so frustrating to watch...

I hope his lack of confidence and mobility is just a problem with his hip, because he has absolutely no speed at all.

[elsid13]

wow...

dudes got some moves!

Everytime he gets the ball he explodes to the line of scrimmage and then someone must throw some cardboard on the field and starts playing some Run DMC, because he just stops there and starts bustin' a move!

It's just so frustrating to watch...

I hope his lack of confidence and mobility is just a problem with his hip, because he has absolutely no speed at all.

No what you see is what you get. If anything this is most burst I have seen from him in 2 years.

[rcsodak]

.....where was andre........ :tsk:
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[jhildebrand]

.....where was andre........ :tsk:
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I have this asked a couple places. Did he even get a carry today? :confused:

[Day1BroncoFan]

.....where was andre........ :tsk:
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Don't know, most likely on the bench.


I have this asked a couple places. Did he even get a carry today? :confused:

Don't think so.

[honz]

I said it as soon as the trade went down...Maroney sucks. He is a serviceable back and that is it. Also, I'd just like to remind everyone that there's a lot that can go wrong with a running game. Dallas can't run the ball at all and they have the type of backs everyone says we need...a speedster (Felix Jones) and a bruiser (Barber). IMO, however, if Moreno got the same amount of room that Maroney got today, I think he definitely gets a couple of extra yards on most of those runs. Maroney simply ran into his blockers a couple of times.

[Northman]

I said it as soon as the trade went down...Maroney sucks. He is a serviceable back and that is it. Also, I'd just like to remind everyone that there's a lot that can go wrong with a running game. Dallas can't run the ball at all and they have the type of backs everyone says we need...a speedster (Felix Jones) and a bruiser (Barber). IMO, however, if Moreno got the same amount of room that Maroney got today, I think he definitely gets a couple of extra yards on most of those runs. Maroney simply ran into his blockers a couple of times.

:lol:

Is that before or after Moreno jukes himself out of the backfield with the latest edition of "dancing with the stars"?

As for Jones and company, they still did better than us and Barber actually got into the endzone. Any team can struggle any given Sunday but the Broncos struggle EVERY Sunday.

[honz]

After.

[WARHORSE]

He gets into a huge hole the offensive line opens up for him, and hes one on one with the linebacker.........what does he do?..........he tries to run around the play.


FRUSTRATING.


Im starting to wonder whos coaching these guys.

[Buff]

As I said in another thread, he really did not look healthy to me. I believe he's got more speed than that.

If he was at 100% today, god help us.

[Northman]

As I said in another thread, he really did not look healthy to me. I believe he's got more speed than that.

If he was at 100% today, god help us.

Do you remember what injury he was coming off of?

[Buff]

I believe it was a nagging groin pull.

[Northman]

I believe it was a nagging groin pull.

He did look tentative and scared when he got into crowds so you could be right.

[Dzone]

that indy goal line stand is as bad as it gets...doesnt get any worse than that

[jhildebrand]

I believe it was a nagging groin pull.

IIRC It was only classified as a thigh injury

[sneakers]

How many rushing yards did he have?

[Buff]

12 carries for 24 yards.

2 receptions for 40 yards.

[dogfish]

He did look tentative and scared when he got into crowds so you could be right.

extremely tentative. . .

[pnbronco]

As I said in another thread, he really did not look healthy to me. I believe he's got more speed than that.

If he was at 100% today, god help us.

Buff he was limping really bad after the game today.

[PAINTERDAVE]

12 carries for 24 yards.

2 receptions for 40 yards.

Maroney had that one nice first down run for about 10 yards.

Take that off the 24 and he was 11 for 14 yards.

Ouch.

[GEM]

I saw what Maroney was all about when he ran to the left and there was a spot where he stopped and he had a choice to go right or left and instead of hitting the hole, he hit a defender and tried to go through him. He doesn't seem to have the vision that good backs have.

[robert ethan]

Plus Maroney hasn't really seen any game action for a month or so. I'd give him a couple more games before rushing to judgement. He has a fairly solid resume behind him.

[Ziggy]

Maroney's been trying to dance around defenders since he came into the league. Speed isn't the problem. He has very good straight line speed, it just takes him a while to get up to it. He's a slow starter, which doesn't bode well for a guy that doesn't have great instincts.

[robert ethan]

Outside of losing a season to injury. His ypc average is over 4, and he catches the ball out of the backfield. Plus he was a dynamite kick returner as a rookie.

[Lonestar]

I believe it was a nagging groin pull.

pretty sure it was a thigh issue

[Tned]

I saw what Maroney was all about when he ran to the left and there was a spot where he stopped and he had a choice to go right or left and instead of hitting the hole, he hit a defender and tried to go through him. He doesn't seem to have the vision that good backs have.

Yea, I don't know how many times in that game I saw him explode to the line and I think he's going to have a nice gain, then once he hits the hole, he starts stutter stepping or whatever, and then either runs into a defender or gives them time to swarm him. Rather than hit the hole and then pick up the 2-5 yards, he gets 0-2 yards.

He was very frustrating to watch.

As to the injury. If you guys are talking about what held him out last week, they said it was a thigh injury. I don't know if he had an injury in NE before the trade.

[Dreadnought]

I saw what Maroney was all about when he ran to the left and there was a spot where he stopped and he had a choice to go right or left and instead of hitting the hole, he hit a defender and tried to go through him. He doesn't seem to have the vision that good backs have.

I saw the same thing. I'm frankly puzzled by the lame attempts to hang this on the O-Line, because I thought those guys played their asses off yesterday. They not only swallowed up Freeney and Mathis' pass rush (to the extent that Kyle Orton was able to have sufficient time to throw for about a gajillion yards and find intermediate and deep receivers well) but they also were opening holes on a regular basis, which Maroney then wouldn't hit with any authority or decision. he also demonstrated he goes down when hit with anything more forceful than an Angel's shrug.

The guy just sucks. I wish people would stop whining about our line needing more time to gel and assign the blame where it properly belongs. Those guys handled the harder part of line play effectively (i.e. pass blocking) and opened their share of running lanes as well.

[Lonestar]

I for one will wait a bit before condeming maroney to the same status that many have every RB we have had since TD and CP.

Sometimes so much empathis is put on pass protect that the basics of run blocking is cut back. The other thing was I thought but could be wrong bucky did not have a great day either as well as down on the goal line I did not see those gapping holes that others seem to have.
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[Dreadnought]

I for one will wait a bit before condeming maroney to the same status that many have every RB we have had since TD and CP.

Sometimes so much empathis is put on pass protect that the basics of run blocking is cut back. The other thing was I thought but could be wrong bucky did not have a great day either as well as down on the goal line I did not see those gapping holes that others seem to have.
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Bucky looks slow this year, sadly. I've always liked the guy, but I suspect a combination of years and too many accumulated injuries have negatively affected his skills. In any event, we've had a good number of backs who performed well and even very well here since TD and Portis.

[topscribe]

wow...

dudes got some moves!

Everytime he gets the ball he explodes to the line of scrimmage and then someone must throw some cardboard on the field and starts playing some Run DMC, because he just stops there and starts bustin' a move!

It's just so frustrating to watch...

I hope his lack of confidence and mobility is just a problem with his hip, because he has absolutely no speed at all.

Actually, I thought Maroney displayed some speed in that screen pass, Weaz.



He gets into a huge hole the offensive line opens up for him, and hes one on one with the linebacker.........what does he do?..........he tries to run around the play.


FRUSTRATING.


Im starting to wonder whos coaching these guys.

Ever wish Bobby Turner was still here?


-----

[topscribe]

Buff he was limping really bad after the game today.

Great. So we have Maroney with the thigh, Moreno with the hamstring, and
Buckhalter with the application for Social Security benefits . . .

-----

[oubronco]

.....where was andre........ :tsk:
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Sitting next to Tebow on the bench

[D1g1tal j1m]

Maroney hit the huge running lanes the OL were creating at the LOS but once he hit the second level he couldn't run around those speedy Colts' LB's. Those Colts' LB were swarming around the ball in the running game.

[WARHORSE]

Maroney is what he is: a body to plug in, in case of injury.


Did anyone, including McD and the front office, think Maroney was coming in to be our starter? Second string?

You cant just pick up RBs off the street in this offense and expect them to play on sundays.

Maphoney knows the offense, hence, hes playing for us as depth.


Dont make me start the 'BRING BACK LAMONT JORDAN" thread.:coffee:

[Dreadnought]

Dont make me start the 'BRING BACK LAMONT JORDAN" thread

I am BEGGING you not to. I'd sooner bring back Quentin Griffin.

[arapaho2]

weird....marony showed just about as much choosing the hole, running through the line and getting yards in his first game with about a weeks practice in a new team as knowshon has had...knowson is not getting any more yards, missing the same holes, and busting moves behind the line when he should be bursting through also

you can condemm marony...but is he any worse than knowshon...in reality:coffee:

[WARHORSE]

weird....marony showed just about as much choosing the hole, running through the line and getting yards in his first game with about a weeks practice in a new team as knowshon has had...knowson is not getting any more yards, missing the same holes, and busting moves behind the line when he should be bursting through also

you can condemm marony...but is he any worse than knowshon...in reality:coffee:

True......but Knowshon runs harder.

And yes, Knowshon is better.

[Dreadnought]

weird....marony showed just about as much choosing the hole, running through the line and getting yards in his first game with about a weeks practice in a new team as knowshon has had...knowson is not getting any more yards, missing the same holes, and busting moves behind the line when he should be bursting through also

you can condemm marony...but is he any worse than knowshon...in reality:coffee:

In fairness to Knowshon, I thought the run blocking was improved yesterday, and its possible he would have had a better day than Maroney - and I say that as a decided non-Knowshon fan. He might have done reasonably well yesterday

I don't think its even possible to open a hole big enough for Maroney to be effective, nor to hold it open long enough.

[jhildebrand]

Just re-watched the game. The holes and lanes were there. Not the entire game mind you but more than Moreno has seen. Maroney always took an extra step, made an extra move, or tried to continue the play outside.

Why not give Andre a shot. You cut Ball, who played his tail off for us in the preseason, to get Andre here. What's it hurt? What do you have to lose? Sounds like the Hillis comments from last season.

[BigDaddyBronco]

weird....marony showed just about as much choosing the hole, running through the line and getting yards in his first game with about a weeks practice in a new team as knowshon has had...knowson is not getting any more yards, missing the same holes, and busting moves behind the line when he should be bursting through also

you can condemm marony...but is he any worse than knowshon...in reality:coffee:
And we didn't waste the #12 pick on him.

[arapaho2]

True......but Knowshon runs harder.

And yes, Knowshon is better.


we can tell by his impressive 2.8 season average

[arapaho2]

Just re-watched the game. The holes and lanes were there. Not the entire game mind you but more than Moreno has seen. Maroney always took an extra step, made an extra move, or tried to continue the play outside.

Why not give Andre a shot. You cut Ball, who played his tail off for us in the preseason, to get Andre here. What's it hurt? What do you have to lose? Sounds like the Hillis comments from last season.

and do we need to be reminded...hillis

39 carries...220 yards..5.6 ypc..3tds...more rushing yards than the entire bronco team

[robert ethan]

...as well as coming off a lingering injury. You can't base any judgement on that game. In spite of all those things McDaniels seemed to prefer him as the first option over Buckhalter who has been here a couple of years and was relatively healthy. That should tell you something.

[Gimpygod]

...as well as coming off a lingering injury. You can't base any judgement on that game. In spite of all those things McDaniels seemed to prefer him as the first option over Buckhalter who has been here a couple of years and was relatively healthy. That should tell you something.

could be telling you McD has a boner for ex Pats...

[Tempus Fugit]

Injured runner + O-line that doesn't run block well = rushing problems



Nothing really surprising. Buckhalter was 4 for 12, and his long was 7. That made him 3 for 5 other than that.

The 2 catches for 40 yards was a nice addition by Maroney, I'd think, but that seems to have gotten largely ignored.

[Buff]

You think it's too late to ask Belicheck to give us our 4th round pick back?

[shank]

it's def too late to give quinn back...

[LRtagger]

I dont mind the YPC from him because our line was getting absolutely abused today.

But the dude dropped a couple screen passes, one where he would have had a huge gain. And he missed two blitz pickups (that I saw) that resulted in a sack.

Can't wait for Moreno to get back.

[Magnificent Seven]

I have to say Maroney sucks!

[scott.475]

At this point, I think it would be worth trading him for a couple extra coolers of Gatorade and a few Underarmor t-shirts.

[Magnificent Seven]

It would be cool if they get Jacobs from Giants.

[Dean]

It would be cool if they get Jacobs from Giants.

Yeah it would be cool if we could get Adrian Peterson from the Vikings but that isn't going to happen either.:confused:

[GEM]

Cut his ass now, please!

[BroncoJoe]

We won.

Good grief. Can't you people be happy at all?

[GEM]

We won.

Good grief. Can't you people be happy at all?

I am ecstatic over the win...just not so happy with Mr. Maroney. :lol:

[tubby]

He needs to cut his corn rows.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

We won.

Good grief. Can't you people be happy at all?

Don't you know that a Bitching Broncos fan IS a happy Broncos fan?

[GEM]

Yep, the braids are weighing down his vision of the field. Dude can't see and hit an open hole with a bulldozer.

[dogfish]

We won.

Good grief. Can't you people be happy at all?

pipe down, baldy. . .


:welcome:

[Tempus Fugit]

Complaining about Maroney is a bit ridiculous when the problem is obviously the line.

[MileHighCrew]

I miss the good old days of 2.2 yards per carry after this week

[LTC Pain]

Complaining about Maroney is a bit ridiculous when the problem is obviously the line.

Maybe. But as soon as Orton hands Maroney the ball he goes into a dance like he just landed on a 200 degree sidewalk in his barefeet. Whoever the Broncos' RB coach is needs to tell Maroney more north/south running and less Saturday Night Fever. To Maroney's credit he did have a nice run when he reversed the direction and the Titans over pursued on one play.

[Tempus Fugit]

Maybe. But as soon as Orton hands Maroney the ball he goes into a dance like he just landed on a 200 degree sidewalk in his barefeet. Whoever the Broncos' RB coach is needs to tell Maroney more north/south running and less Saturday Night Fever. To Maroney's credit he did have a nice run when he reversed the direction and the Titans over pursued on one play.

I'm not going to get into the style thing again, because I talked about that when the guy was first signed. I do find it interesting that people actually give a damn what style a player runs with. Barry Sanders wouldn't have a chance with the fans of today.

[Tned]

I'm not going to get into the style thing again, because I talked about that when the guy was first signed. I do find it interesting that people actually give a damn what style a player runs with. Barry Sanders wouldn't have a chance with the fans of today.

I could care less about style, only results. When I have brought up his style, it is related to the Colts game where he made a burst for the line, and then about at the LOS, he kind of stops and stutter steps, as if he is trying to pick up blockers, see the hole, or whatever, before then going on from there, giving the defense time to swarm him.

My issue is that even if there aren't holes to make 20 yard runs, if he would run more north/south, once he makes his initial cut/break, some of those 1-2 yard gains would be 3-5 yard gains, and possibly more. That indecisiveness, or attempting to break the big one, rather than settle for a solid gain, is the problem I have with him.

[LTC Pain]

I could care less about style, only results. When I have brought up his style, it is related to the Colts game where he made a burst for the line, and then about at the LOS, he kind of stops and stutter steps, as if he is trying to pick up blockers, see the hole, or whatever, before then going on from there, giving the defense time to swarm him.

My issue is that even if there aren't holes to make 20 yard runs, if he would run more north/south, once he makes his initial cut/break, some of those 1-2 yard gains would be 3-5 yard gains, and possibly more. That indecisiveness, or attempting to break the big one, rather than settle for a solid gain, is the problem I have with him.

Exactly, I'm not really talking about Maroney's style of running. By dancing at the line, the delay allows the defense to close in on him before making any yardage. I'd prefer more north/south.

[Tempus Fugit]

I could care less about style, only results. When I have brought up his style, it is related to the Colts game where he made a burst for the line, and then about at the LOS, he kind of stops and stutter steps, as if he is trying to pick up blockers, see the hole, or whatever, before then going on from there, giving the defense time to swarm him.

My issue is that even if there aren't holes to make 20 yard runs, if he would run more north/south, once he makes his initial cut/break, some of those 1-2 yard gains would be 3-5 yard gains, and possibly more. That indecisiveness, or attempting to break the big one, rather than settle for a solid gain, is the problem I have with him.

Yes.... when a team's running game sucks, everyone wants a straight ahead runner, because they assign all the blame for failed plays to the running back. However, anyone who saw the Giants game last night saw that the 'hesitant' runner can often be the much more effective runner when he's playing behind a line that run blocks well.

Maroney's not perfect, by any stretch. The coaching he got in New England clearly has him confused about his running. Anyone looking at his rookie season would think him a completely different runner, and the Patriots stopped using him as a pass receiver, so he's going to need time to regain confidence in his catching skills. That doesn't mean that he's the problem, or that he needs to be cut immediately, though. It means that the Broncos offensive line sucks when it comes to blocking the run, and Maroney's not the kind of back that can overcome that. Neither is Buckhalter. Neither is Moreno. There are very few NFL running backs in history that can overcome consistently having defenders meeting them 3-4 yards in the backfield, which is what the Broncos runners are dealing with.

You could probably count them on 1-2 fingers.

[Tempus Fugit]

Exactly, I'm not really talking about Maroney's style of running. By dancing at the line, the delay allows the defense to close in on him before making any yardage. I'd prefer more north/south.

"Dancing at the line" is also known as patience. It all depends on who's looking at the run.

[frauschieze]

So...if the O-line sucks at run blocking right now, doesn't that mean we really NEED a north-south runner? How is "dancing at the line" showing patience when there won't be holes opened up?

Maybe Maroney will be exactly what we need when the O-line figures it out. In the mean time, he's close to completely useless and our run game is non-existent. We can't win every game on Orton's arm. It will be November and December in Denver soon enough.

[Mike]

"Dancing at the line" is also known as patience. It all depends on who's looking at the run.

I don't know how anyone can watch Maroney run and consider it anything other than crap. I think he just has poor vision. Even with the cracks to slip through or the cutback, slight as they may be, he could still gain 1-4 yards, but it looks like he deliberately goes to where the defenders are and runs into them.

[Tempus Fugit]

So...if the O-line sucks at run blocking right now, doesn't that mean we really NEED a north-south runner? How is "dancing at the line" showing patience when there won't be holes opened up?

Maybe Maroney will be exactly what we need when the O-line figures it out. In the mean time, he's close to completely useless and our run game is non-existent. We can't win every game on Orton's arm. It will be November and December in Denver soon enough.

Moreno was averaging 2.8 ypc before going down with his injury, and that was running against Jacksonville and Seattle. Buckhalter is averaging 1.8 ypc.

North/South v. East/West is pretty much a useless distinction at this point.

[Lonestar]

So...if the O-line sucks at run blocking right now, doesn't that mean we really NEED a north-south runner? How is "dancing at the line" showing patience when there won't be holes opened up?

Maybe Maroney will be exactly what we need when the O-line figures it out. In the mean time, he's close to completely useless and our run game is non-existent. We can't win every game on Orton's arm. It will be November and December in Denver soon enough.

FWIW here is how we close the season in NOV and DEC.
in NOV
KC
@san
stl
in DEC
@kc
@AZ
@oak
HOU
SAN

depending on weather in DEN IMO a very favorable schedule.

[Tned]

Yes.... when a team's running game sucks, everyone wants a straight ahead runner, because they assign all the blame for failed plays to the running back. However, anyone who saw the Giants game last night saw that the 'hesitant' runner can often be the much more effective runner when he's playing behind a line that run blocks well.

Maroney's not perfect, by any stretch. The coaching he got in New England clearly has him confused about his running. Anyone looking at his rookie season would think him a completely different runner, and the Patriots stopped using him as a pass receiver, so he's going to need time to regain confidence in his catching skills. That doesn't mean that he's the problem, or that he needs to be cut immediately, though. It means that the Broncos offensive line sucks when it comes to blocking the run, and Maroney's not the kind of back that can overcome that. Neither is Buckhalter. Neither is Moreno. There are very few NFL running backs in history that can overcome consistently having defenders meeting them 3-4 yards in the backfield, which is what the Broncos runners are dealing with.

You could probably count them on 1-2 fingers.

This past game there was more of the "meet in the backfield". Prior to that, McDaniels was touting the fact that while the teams YPC was low, they had almost no losses for carries. He stated that the line and backs were doing a VERY good job of starting plays, but a very poor job of finishing them.

Now, he didn't elaborate if that failure was the linemen failing to get to the second level to block, or if it was his RB's failing to take advantage of the initial holes that the line opened. Clearly you see it as the line, I see it as a combo problem.

As to the north/south, a running back needs to be able to adapt. If the line sucks, as you put it, then he needs to hit the initial hole and pick up the 3-5, rather than 'hesitating' to see if a hole will open up to allow him to get 20, and when it never does, gaining 1-3 yards.

[Tempus Fugit]

As to the north/south, a running back needs to be able to adapt. If the line sucks, as you put it, then he needs to hit the initial hole and pick up the 3-5, rather than 'hesitating' to see if a hole will open up to allow him to get 20, and when it never does, gaining 1-3 yards.

Again....

Moreno: 2.8
Buckhalter: 1.8


It's not about north/south, and it's not about hitting an initial hole, because there are no holes to hit. It's about a line that can't open, and maintain, holes in the running game.

[Tned]

Again....

Moreno: 2.8
Buckhalter: 1.8


It's not about north/south, and it's not about hitting an initial hole, because there are no holes to hit. It's about a line that can't open, and maintain, holes in the running game.

Ok, you're right, McDaniels is wrong. Got it.

We'll just leave it at the old agree to disagree, because apparently "the debate is over", so there is no sense in discussing it.

[frauschieze]

Moreno was averaging 2.8 ypc before going down with his injury, and that was running against Jacksonville and Seattle. Buckhalter is averaging 1.8 ypc.

North/South v. East/West is pretty much a useless distinction at this point.

I fail to understand your point. Neither Moreno or Buckhalter are north/south runners.

Will you please clarify?

[Dreadnought]

I don't understand why it has to be an either/or problem. The answer to the equation may be [line is playing poorly + our RB's suck + our scheme is questionable = Broncos running game circa october 2010.] Given that I think Kupe, Harris, and Clady have previously proven they are quality O-Linemen, and Beadles has had some decent moments, I'm not sure what the problem there is exactly. What I am sure of is that the running game as constituted sucks, and the offense is being carried entirely by Kyle Orton and the WR crew. Their service has been admirable, but I'm not sure Orton can do this all season. He's better than most of us could have hoped, but not that kind of good that he can succeed long term with zero running game.

[Buff]

I don't understand why it has to be an either/or problem. The answer to the equation may be [line is playing poorly + our RB's suck + our scheme is questionable = Broncos running game circa october 2010.] Given that I think Kupe, Harris, and Clady have previously proven they are quality O-Linemen, and Beadles has had some decent moments, I'm not sure what the problem there is exactly. What I am sure of is that the running game as constituted sucks, and the offense is being carried entirely by Kyle Orton and the WR crew. Their service has been admirable, but I'm not sure Orton can do this all season. He's better than most of us could have hoped, but not that kind of good that he can succeed long term with zero running game.

Kuper, Harris and Clady are all coming off of injuries... I'm hopeful that they can continue to improve each week with no major setbacks. Plus, with Harris starting his first game in almost a year and the mish-mash of linemen we've been forced to throw out there - I think it will take a couple games to gain some continuity back as a group.

It can't possibly get any worse from a rushing standpoint, and we still won the game, so I think that should provide a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

[Lonestar]

This past game there was more of the "meet in the backfield". Prior to that, McDaniels was touting the fact that while the teams YPC was low, they had almost no losses for carries. He stated that the line and backs were doing a VERY good job of starting plays, but a very poor job of finishing them.

Now, he didn't elaborate if that failure was the linemen failing to get to the second level to block, or if it was his RB's failing to take advantage of the initial holes that the line opened. Clearly you see it as the line, I see it as a combo problem.

As to the north/south, a running back needs to be able to adapt. If the line sucks, as you put it, then he needs to hit the initial hole and pick up the 3-5, rather than 'hesitating' to see if a hole will open up to allow him to get 20, and when it never does, gaining 1-3 yards.

Being an EX ORG I see it as the OL's first and foremost you have to win the LOS or the running game and in most cases the pass protect will never be consistent.

now I did not see the game yesterday but so far of what I have seen this year, the OL has not remotely dominated the LOS.

[frauschieze]

Kuper, Harris and Clady are all coming off of injuries... I'm hopeful that they can continue to improve each week with no major setbacks. Plus, with Harris starting his first game in almost a year and the mish-mash of linemen we've been forced to throw out there - I think it will take a couple games to gain some continuity back as a group.

It can't possibly get any worse from a rushing standpoint, and we still won the game, so I think that should provide a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

Jinx alert! :throwrock:

[Buff]

Jinx alert! :throwrock:

I guarantee the Broncos will not rush for less than 19 yards in any game this season.

[dogfish]

I don't understand why it has to be an either/or problem. The answer to the equation may be [line is playing poorly + our RB's suck + our scheme is questionable = Broncos running game circa october 2010.]

absolutely! the run blocking was atrocious yesterday, but that does nothing to absolve our RBs of their sucky play this year. . . like maroney dropping passes-- can't blame that on the O-line. . .

[Tned]

Being an EX ORG I see it as the OL's first and foremost you have to win the LOS or the running game and in most cases the pass protect will never be consistent.

now I did not see the game yesterday but so far of what I have seen this year, the OL has not remotely dominated the LOS.


Here it is in Coach McDaniels words. He doesn't seem to agree that it's mostly the offensive line:


On the impact of the offensive line in the run game

“We had opportunities yesterday in the running game that we did not take advantage of, no question about it. That is not aimed at one specific player. I have said it a million times that your ability to run the ball effectively is a combination of a lot of people doing their job the right way. If one person doesn’t (do their job well) — whether that be somebody blocking, somebody is supposed to move up to the linebacker level, some kind of read the running back is supposed to make, the receiver finishing his block on a safety or a corner — there are a lot of little things that add up to a lot of hidden yardage in a game and you come out of a game with whatever number of yards you rushed for. You can always go through the film and say, ‘Wow, this looks pretty good to start,’ and then you finish watching the play and it was a 3-yard gain. So, there’s a good thing about this and a bad thing. The good thing is we really don’t have anybody in our backfield and a good running game always starts with eliminating negative plays, which we seem to be able to do that. We feel like the effectiveness of our running game will improve when we finish the play better — as well as we started. When we start the play well, it looks good. We have a hole, we have a place to run sometimes, and maybe we didn’t finish a block right, we didn’t make a right read in the running game — whatever it may be — and those yards, instead of having a 3-yard gain you get a 21-yard gain and all of sudden your average is four-and-a-half yards a carry. Right now, we are missing those and we’ve got to continue to work and continue to plug away. Like I said, the good thing is we are not going backwards. We had one (negative) carry yesterday. We had very few of those in the first two games also. Once we start finishing plays as well as we start them, I think our running game will be much improved.”

[Tempus Fugit]

Ok, you're right, McDaniels is wrong. Got it.

We'll just leave it at the old agree to disagree, because apparently "the debate is over", so there is no sense in discussing it.

McDaniels has said nothing that contradicts what I've been saying, so I don't know where you're going with your opening crack. Having noted that, agreeing to disagree is probably for the best.

[Traveler]

Here it is in Coach McDaniels words. He doesn't seem to agree that it's mostly the offensive line:

Was this quote in reference to the Indy game or Titans?

[Krugan]

Poll:

Can the Broncos rush for a first down on the bye week?

I dont think Capt Dreadlock could hit the hole if it was covered with hair.

(sorry uncalled for im sure)

[Tempus Fugit]

Was this quote in reference to the Indy game or Titans?

That was after the Colts game.

[Tned]

Was this quote in reference to the Indy game or Titans?

Indy. The Wednesday presser, the 27th I believe.

[robert ethan]

Yesterday the team had two new players in the backfield (Maroney and Gronkowski) for the most part, who have only been with the team a few weeks, an undrafted free agent with no experience starting at one gaurd spot, and a mid round draft pick starting at center. It doesn't seem all that surprising that the running game would struggle. Not to mention the fact that the remainder of the O line are all coming off injuries, along with the tight end.

[Lonestar]

Kuper, Harris and Clady are all coming off of injuries... I'm hopeful that they can continue to improve each week with no major setbacks. Plus, with Harris starting his first game in almost a year and the mish-mash of linemen we've been forced to throw out there - I think it will take a couple games to gain some continuity back as a group.

It can't possibly get any worse from a rushing standpoint, and we still won the game, so I think that should provide a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

I believe the light should be there, with each passing game the rookies will just get more and more experience. BY this time next year I suspect this OL will be one of the very best.

Now that was said.

Harris concerns me IIRC he now has played in less than 50% of the games he was eligible for in his career. I'd have to look it up but I believe that to be correct.

If that is teh case I'm hoping we pick up a stud RT either in the draft or get beadle more time there beofer he has to start come next year.

I would not like to give Harris a huge contract with his inability to stay on the field on game day.

[Lonestar]

Here it is in Coach McDaniels words. He doesn't seem to agree that it's mostly the offensive line:

While I appreciate that quote it did not IIRC specially absolve teh OL in blocking either from what I have seen this year and that does not include yesterdays game. The OLINE is not opening hole and in some cases the LBs are at the LOS leaving NO place for the Rb to go to. Earlier in the year and portions of last year they were in the backfield.

Yes some of the RB are prancing around back there so I'm not saying that they are blameless, but in order to get momentum got to have a crack to make forward progress.

IIRC one game where Maroney got the ball and had to leap over over a lb at the LOS or with in a yard of it and managed to pick up a first down might have had more if he could have kept his balance after the hurdle and been running hard when the 3rd level got to him.

That quote seemed to be spreading teh blame around to alot of folks as to NOT throw the OL under the bus.

I totally agree that other players have blocking issues also, but if the initial hole is not there second and third level blocking are MOOT.


Was this quote in reference to the Indy game or Titans?

I believe that was the Indy game unless he repeated it yesterday.

[Tned]

That quote seemed to be spreading teh blame around to alot of folks as to NOT throw the OL under the bus.

I totally agree that other players have blocking issues also, but if the initial hole is not there second and third level blocking are MOOT.


That's a pretty wild theory, to believe that McDaniels "spread the blame" to protect his O-line. :confused:

As to the initial hole, McDaniels went out of his way to state that there were initial holes, and where things broke down (in the first three games) was failure to execute blocks in the second level and bad reads by RB's.

It makes far more sense to believe McDaniels is telling the truth than it does to believe he is lying and blaming RBs in order to 'protect' the O-line.

[Dzone]

I agree. Whenever Baloney is given the ball, he seems to go where there is NO daylight. Even though everyone in the stadium sees a hole, he seems to ignore it and runs to where there aint one. Thats after he does his version of the Ickey shuffle.

Please get well Moreno. At least there's a chance at + yardage with him. Maybe not much, but at least 3 yards a carry.

[scott.475]

I agree. Whenever Baloney is given the ball, he seems to go where there is NO daylight. Even though everyone in the stadium sees a hole, he seems to ignore it and runs to where there aint one. Thats after he does his version of the Ickey shuffle.

Please get well Moreno. At least there's a chance at + yardage with him. Maybe not much, but at least 3 yards a carry.

Heh, my favorite play from him yesterday was when the line opened up a nice hole from him. On the other side of that hole was a defender, don't remember who, just a single guy, with space to both sides of him. Maroney ran right into his waiting arms, I don't think he even made a move to go to either side of him. As usual, he went down immediately on first contact, didn't even move the guy. Sad.

[Tempus Fugit]

That's a pretty wild theory, to believe that McDaniels "spread the blame" to protect his O-line. :confused:

As to the initial hole, McDaniels went out of his way to state that there were initial holes, and where things broke down (in the first three games) was failure to execute blocks in the second level and bad reads by RB's.

It makes far more sense to believe McDaniels is telling the truth than it does to believe he is lying and blaming RBs in order to 'protect' the O-line.

What he said was:


...When we start the play well, it looks good. We have a hole, we have a place to run sometimes, and maybe we didn’t finish a block right, we didn’t make a right read in the running game — whatever it may be...

He doesn't break down the blame pie, and I've not seen anyone claiming that the running backs have been flawless. I'm not sure of what point you're trying to make or what "You see, Timmy" moment you think you've found.

[dogfish]

He doesn't break down the blame pie, and I've not seen anyone claiming that the running backs have been flawless. I'm not sure of what point you're trying to make or what "You see, Timmy" moment you think you've found.


Complaining about Maroney is a bit ridiculous when the problem is obviously the line.


hey-oh!

[Joel]

Why not give Andre a shot. You cut Ball, who played his tail off for us in the preseason, to get Andre here. What's it hurt? What do you have to lose? Sounds like the Hillis comments from last season.
If it makes you feel any better, NFL.com says two days after we cut Ball we re-signed him to the PS. Devious and subtle, we are. ;)

FWIW here is how we close the season in NOV and DEC.
in NOV
KC
@san
stl
in DEC
@kc
@AZ
@oak
HOU
SAN

depending on weather in DEN IMO a very favorable schedule.
Both Bolts and Chiefs games (there are two "sans" btw, but the other one is our next game) plus a Texans team most people are picking to make the playoffs. I'd throw the Cards in, but they don't have Boldin any more and the Bolts made them look STUPID yesterday; still, that schedule doesn't seem too favorable to me. At best I'd say it's neutral; we do at least host the Texans. I'll decide who I want to win after I see both teams' records at that point. :P

[Tned]

What he said was:



He doesn't break down the blame pie, and I've not seen anyone claiming that the running backs have been flawless. I'm not sure of what point you're trying to make or what "You see, Timmy" moment you think you've found.

I responded to a claim that McDaniels is 'spreading the blame' to RBs as well as O-line to shield the O-line from criticism.

Do you believe that is what McDaniels is doing?

[jhildebrand]

If it makes you feel any better, NFL.com says two days after we cut Ball we re-signed him to the PS.

I am glad to see we have Ball back. Its not that I think he is the second coming of Pierre Thomas or Mike Bell. I just saw a guy who worked his tail off in the preseason when we had nobody to run the ball.

I hated the Maroney trade the minute it was announced what we spent for him. I have been critical of the FO's use and freewheeling ways with our picks. I would much rather have that pick and gain 19 yards with Ball than Maroney especially considering that Maroney definitely looks like he wont be getting an extension.


I responded to a claim that McDaniels is 'spreading the blame' to RBs as well as O-line to shield the O-line from criticism.

Do you believe that is what McDaniels is doing?

I listened to that presser serveral times in its entirety. McDaniels has not been known to protect one player and he has had no problem throwing a player under the bus. McDaniels was clear that the running issues, at least against Indy, weren't relegated to the o line. Myself and others have commented that the holes/gaps/lanes were there.

[Elevation inc]

I am glad to see we have Ball back. Its not that I think he is the second coming of Pierre Thomas or Mike Bell. I just saw a guy who worked his tail off in the preseason when we had nobody to run the ball.

I hated the Maroney trade the minute it was announced what we spent for him. I have been critical of the FO's use and freewheeling ways with our picks. I would much rather have that pick and gain 19 yards with Ball than Maroney especially considering that Maroney definitely looks like he wont be getting an extension.



I listened to that presser serveral times in its entirety. McDaniels has not been known to protect one player and he has had no problem throwing a player under the bus. McDaniels was clear that the running issues, at least against Indy, weren't relegated to the o line. Myself and others have commented that the holes/gaps/lanes were there.

im not really a fan of the free wheelin with picks either....he did it last year to with hochstein and Le kevin smith.....it seems we are a little to free with draft picks during the season(then we do all we can to pulkl picks out our but on draft day which can be both good and bad).....i understand his mindset at times when making the deal, but one begs to question if you were paying attention the whole time before the deal and fixing the issue the deal shouldnt have needed to be made.

this is a prime example had we not traded hillis and left RB off our FA list(arrington off injury doesnt count) we wouldnt have had to scramble for lendale white, andre brown and now maroney...who really were castoffs anyways for whatever reason....i do wish we got to see lendale this year though i sawe that dude drag a number of defenders that year he had 15 TD's when he was down in the redzone.....he could have at least helped.

also not having moreno does hurt, for all his so called struggles and the OL's struggles that dude will give up his body to try and score if he cant punch it in from short and goal the first 2 times for whatever reason.....at this point best way to fix our short goal to go redzone woes is use a back thats willing to go over the top, the rest well we will just have to tough it out this year and hope they click.....becasue i see no OL player or Rb at this time worth a trade or pick-up that could help us any more than what we currently have

[Cugel]

Great. So we have Maroney with the thigh, Moreno with the hamstring, and
Buckhalter with the application for Social Security benefits . . .

-----
That was hilarious TOP! :laugh: :laugh:

[Elevation inc]

I am glad to see we have Ball back. Its not that I think he is the second coming of Pierre Thomas or Mike Bell. I just saw a guy who worked his tail off in the preseason when we had nobody to run the ball.

I hated the Maroney trade the minute it was announced what we spent for him. I have been critical of the FO's use and freewheeling ways with our picks. I would much rather have that pick and gain 19 yards with Ball than Maroney especially considering that Maroney definitely looks like he wont be getting an extension.



I listened to that presser serveral times in its entirety. McDaniels has not been known to protect one player and he has had no problem throwing a player under the bus. McDaniels was clear that the running issues, at least against Indy, weren't relegated to the o line. Myself and others have commented that the holes/gaps/lanes were there.


there were some bad reads by Rb's against both indy and seattle, however at Jax, and at Tenn our OL got straight wooped on worst i seen at Tenn in years.....i would give the OL 90% fault in both those games and 10% to the Rb's, the indy/seattle games are probally closer to a 50-50 split......

[Tempus Fugit]

hey-oh!

You must have missed this part:


Yes.... when a team's running game sucks, everyone wants a straight ahead runner, because they assign all the blame for failed plays to the running back. However, anyone who saw the Giants game last night saw that the 'hesitant' runner can often be the much more effective runner when he's playing behind a line that run blocks well.

Maroney's not perfect, by any stretch. The coaching he got in New England clearly has him confused about his running. Anyone looking at his rookie season would think him a completely different runner, and the Patriots stopped using him as a pass receiver, so he's going to need time to regain confidence in his catching skills. That doesn't mean that he's the problem, or that he needs to be cut immediately, though. It means that the Broncos offensive line sucks when it comes to blocking the run, and Maroney's not the kind of back that can overcome that. Neither is Buckhalter. Neither is Moreno. There are very few NFL running backs in history that can overcome consistently having defenders meeting them 3-4 yards in the backfield, which is what the Broncos runners are dealing with.

You could probably count them on 1-2 fingers.

[Ravage!!!]

Moroney's not only not perfect, he's not even good. He sucked in NE, and its no surprising he's sucking here.

ANY RB can blast through a wide open hole. Thats why we see some guys in college look so dominating and get drafted early in the first round. What was the name of that lil RB that played here for a year or so from OU, that people felt was going to be a star?? Anyway, you watched his highlight reel from OU, and you would see GIGANTIC holes. Don't get that in the NFL. Won't get that in the NFL on any kind of regular basis.

RBs in the NFL have to be able to run the ball, even when there are not giant holes to run through. Our RBs are pathetic.

Seems we are blaming it the OL, or the blocking scheme, the coaches, prior coaches their feelings, the weather.... and what stage the moon is in. Soon we'll be going back to their HS Coaches, their child hood bullies, or how they were taught to take their first step. Whatever the reasons are for them sucking, doesn't matter.

[Lonestar]

That's a pretty wild theory, to believe that McDaniels "spread the blame" to protect his O-line. :confused:

As to the initial hole, McDaniels went out of his way to state that there were initial holes, and where things broke down (in the first three games) was failure to execute blocks in the second level and bad reads by RB's.

It makes far more sense to believe McDaniels is telling the truth than it does to believe he is lying and blaming RBs in order to 'protect' the O-line.

Perhaps I did not make MYSELF clear Josh spread the blame around to WR, Rb, OL for not getting the job done, getting to the second level etc.


Originally Posted by Jrwiz View Post
That quote seemed to be spreading the blame around to alot of folks as to NOT throw the OL under the bus.

I totally agree that other players have blocking issues also, but if the initial hole is not there second and third level blocking are MOOT.

HE especially did not blame just one part of the issue. But seemed to spread it over a lot of folks. I have no doubt in meetings each and everyone that failed in our ability to run is being addressed.

Josh was classy enuff IMO not to throw the oline under the bus in public..

[Dzone]

The seahawks just picked up Marshawn Lynch from bufffalo for a 4th round pick...

[Elevation inc]

The seahawks just picked up Marshawn Lynch from bufffalo for a 4th round pick...

son of a bitch...well to be fair they wanted a thrid when teams were previously calling, so i guess they finally got desperate....

[Tned]

The seahawks just picked up Marshawn Lynch from bufffalo for a 4th round pick...

I heard that they called McDaniels, he picked up the phone and said, "no", because he was only willing to give up a 1st round pick for Lynch and refused to give up less....

[Ravage!!!]

I heard that they called McDaniels, he picked up the phone and said, "no", because he was only willing to give up a 1st round pick for Lynch and refused to give up less....

Wait a minute. Have we confirmation on the "actual" picking up the phone? :elefant:

[TimTebow15MVP]

this is the week for maroney to flex if hes ever going to flex.

[Joel]

I am glad to see we have Ball back. Its not that I think he is the second coming of Pierre Thomas or Mike Bell. I just saw a guy who worked his tail off in the preseason when we had nobody to run the ball.

I hated the Maroney trade the minute it was announced what we spent for him. I have been critical of the FO's use and freewheeling ways with our picks. I would much rather have that pick and gain 19 yards with Ball than Maroney especially considering that Maroney definitely looks like he wont be getting an extension.

I listened to that presser serveral times in its entirety. McDaniels has not been known to protect one player and he has had no problem throwing a player under the bus. McDaniels was clear that the running issues, at least against Indy, weren't relegated to the o line. Myself and others have commented that the holes/gaps/lanes were there.
I'm just don't get cutting a guy then signing him to the PS two days later when you could have just moved him. Unless they thought a scrub was demanding too much money I can't help thinking Indecisive much?

As to the other, no, I don't think McDaniels is too nice to publicly call out a guy; he threw pretty much everyone under the bus at various times when the Broncos were falling apart in the last half of '09. Thank heaven we got rid of losers like Marshall, Scheff, Torain and Hillis (the latter two both had great days Sunday, in case anyone missed it.) It's weird to see Torain carry his team when Portis gets hurt, but there are a lot of differences between that offense and ours.... ;)

[Elevation inc]

I'm just don't get cutting a guy then signing him to the PS two days later when you could have just moved him. Unless they thought a scrub was demanding too much money I can't help thinking Indecisive much?

As to the other, no, I don't think McDaniels is too nice to publicly call out a guy; he threw pretty much everyone under the bus at various times when the Broncos were falling apart in the last half of '09. Thank heaven we got rid of losers like Marshall, Scheff, Torain and Hillis (the latter two both had great days Sunday, in case anyone missed it.) It's weird to see Torain carry his team when Portis gets hurt, but there are a lot of differences between that offense and ours.... ;)


the risk of losing andre brown off the PS was greater than losing lance ball, thats really why it was done the way it was....denver was suprised the giants parted ways with a back in brown they really liked, but a bunch of other teams were interested in brown...IE GB when grant went down...so we made the switch to protect against losing brown...thats all it was....

[Joel]

the risk of losing andre brown off the PS was greater than losing lance ball, thats really why it was done the way it was....denver was suprised the giants parted ways with a back in brown they really liked, but a bunch of other teams were interested in brown...IE GB when grant went down...so we made the switch to protect against losing brown...thats all it was....
Gosh, you almost make it sound like the guys in the FO know things that the general public doesn't that often make what seems like a boneheaded decision look brilliant in retrospect. :tongue:

[Elevation inc]

Gosh, you almost make it sound like the guys in the FO know things that the general public doesn't that often make what seems like a boneheaded decision look brilliant in retrospect. :tongue:

lol.....:lol: