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DenBronx
09-26-2010, 07:03 PM
12 for 24 yards Maroney
4 for 12 yards Buckhalter


I bet some of you still think Moreno is the problem. :coffee:

silkamilkamonico
09-26-2010, 07:06 PM
They are all problems.

We need to find a way to get Mark Ingrahm. That dude is going to be a beast.

broncobryce
09-26-2010, 07:06 PM
Exactly. And Moreno scored 2 td's in two games with garbage blocking. Guess he's not the problem after all!? Once the blocking comes together Moreno will be fine.

BeefStew25
09-26-2010, 07:07 PM
Math fail.

Northman
09-26-2010, 07:08 PM
12 for 24 yards Maroney
4 for 12 yards Buckhalter


I bet some of you still think Moreno is the problem. :coffee:

I think they all are the problem.

Meanwhile, in Cleveland....

Tned
09-26-2010, 07:08 PM
They are all problems.

We need to find a way to get Mark Ingrahm. That dude is going to be a beast.

Maybe we can trade for Hillis...

Northman
09-26-2010, 07:09 PM
They are all problems.

We need to find a way to get Mark Ingrahm. That dude is going to be a beast.

That kid is SICK.

scott.475
09-26-2010, 07:09 PM
Math fail.

I'm throwing him a lifeline: 2.25 ypc. Not that it is much more to get excited about.

silkamilkamonico
09-26-2010, 07:09 PM
Maybe we can trade for Hillis...

Hillis isn't looking so bad right now. Better than any of our RB's.

DenBronx
09-26-2010, 07:10 PM
Exactly. And Moreno scored 2 td's in two games with garbage blocking. Guess he's not the problem after all!? Once the blocking comes together Moreno will be fine.

I saw Moreno create plays when no plays were there through the first two games. He is more dangerous in the passing game and by far more athletic than the other two jokers we got.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 07:10 PM
Maybe we can trade for Hillis...

Why? :confused:

He is too stupid to play here. :rolleyes:

DenBronx
09-26-2010, 07:17 PM
My bad on the initial ypc guys.


Just another game with worse results by our runningbacks. Why can't we get the PBS problems corrected? Orton can't throw 400+ yards each week.

Tned
09-26-2010, 07:19 PM
Why? :confused:

He is too stupid to play here. :rolleyes:

Oh yea, I forgot. I guess he isn't smart enough how to trip over the line of scrimmage, go down on first contact, and consider it a 'good' day when you average 2.5 ypc...


;)

weazel
09-26-2010, 07:20 PM
you're blaming it all on the backs? the OLine deserves blame...
Barry Sanders would have trouble twirling himself into some open area with our line.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-26-2010, 07:21 PM
They are all problems.

We need to find a way to get Mark Ingrahm. That dude is going to be a beast.

Not behind our offensive line! It would'nt matter if we traded for Chris Johnson tomorrow. He'd still average under 4 YPC here.

Talent is NOT the issue!

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 07:21 PM
My bad on the initial ypc guys.


Just another game with worse results by our runningbacks. Why can't we get the PBS problems corrected? Orton can't throw 400+ yards each week.

I thought there were some pretty nice holes and lanes today. It seemed each time a lane was there sLoMO took an extra studder step and it killed any potential for a big gain. If that is the case, and I am right, then the big runs will show up sooner than later.

I was really excited for Moreno after the first two games. Trust me, I was hard on that kid and pick last season. It is too bad he is injured again.

Buck and Maroney aren't a compliment either! If we are going to be a RBBC I would rather it be a guy like Moreno and a bruiser like a Hillis, Alstott, Bettis, etc...At least someone who can soften up the D.

Did Andre even play today? :confused:

Tned
09-26-2010, 07:23 PM
you're blaming it all on the backs? the OLine deserves blame...
Barry Sanders would have trouble twirling himself into some open area with our line.

Maroney had plenty of holes opened by the line, before sidestepping/cutting into defenders. He looked pretty bad out there.

silkamilkamonico
09-26-2010, 07:23 PM
you're blaming it all on the backs? the OLine deserves blame...
Barry Sanders would have trouble twirling himself into some open area with our line.

Barry Sanders would at least break one here and there. Something none of our RB's can do.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 07:23 PM
Oh yea, I forgot. I guess he isn't smart enough how to trip over the line of scrimmage, go down on first contact, and consider it a 'good' day when you average 2.5 ypc...


;)


you're blaming it all on the backs? the OLine deserves blame...
Barry Sanders would have trouble twirling himself into some open area with our line.


Not behind our offensive line! It would'nt matter if we traded for Chris Johnson tomorrow. He'd still average under 4 YPC here.


Talent is NOT the issue!

Well....Cleveland doesn't have exactly the best o line and they were playing the Ravens. I think it is safe to say this team would have been better off with Hillis today.

silkamilkamonico
09-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Not behind our offensive line! It would'nt matter if we traded for Chris Johnson tomorrow. He'd still average under 4 YPC here.

Talent is NOT the issue!

BS. He's a gu ythat can make something out of nothing. He wouldn't be nearly as good here as Tennessee, but he would still be a capable threat, as well as a long run here and there.

There isn't a single oppurtunity for a long run with any of our guys. There was with Buckhalter here and there last year, but that disappeared along with the only winning stretch we've had in 19 games.

Moreno is are the type of RB that can do something when something is available. You know, the same quality that 70%+ other starters in the NFL have. Big deal.

Maroney, who the ---- knows.

Northman
09-26-2010, 07:28 PM
Barry Sanders would at least break one here and there. Something none of our RB's can do.

Bingo.

Sure, the line has issues at times but there are plenty of lanes created by the Oline but our backs have no burst and once they get into traffic fall down over themselves.

DenBronx
09-26-2010, 07:29 PM
Well....Cleveland doesn't have exactly the best o line and they were playing the Ravens. I think it is safe to say this team would have been better off with Hillis today.

From what I've seen fans in Cleveland love Hillis.

I watched part of the game and he is still the same punishing style RB. He got alot of praise from the commentators today.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-26-2010, 07:36 PM
From what I've seen fans in Cleveland love Hillis.

I watched part of the game and he is still the same punishing style RB. He got alot of praise from the commentators today.

He's too stupid to understand the McDaniels "no TDs in the redzone" system though... Dumb Hillbilly. At least that's what Bosco told me about Hillis.

elsid13
09-26-2010, 07:36 PM
At some point we need to point the blame on the scheme. Maybe there is a reason NE doesn't produce 1000 yard backs. But Maloney is still garbage.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 07:36 PM
From what I've seen fans in Cleveland love Hillis.

I watched part of the game and he is still the same punishing style RB. He got alot of praise from the commentators today.

He is getting a ton of love from Mangini too. Coincidentally, Mangini comes from NE who runs a very similar style offense to McD. So why is it he could see the value in a Hillis and actually play him and look past one fumble? :confused:

In fact, Mangini made it clear leading up to this week, he doesn't care who it is but whoever is producing is playing to the point he mentioned benching Hardesty publically.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 07:38 PM
He's too stupid to understand the McDaniels "no TDs in the redzone" system though... Dumb Hillbilly. At least that's what Bosco told me about Hillis.

Funny, he told me the same thing. I guess Mangini's NE system is DRASTICALLY different than McD's. :rolleyes:

I am only harping on this issue because ALL OF LAST YEAR I felt like Moreno and Hillis could be the perfect tandem!

Poet
09-26-2010, 07:38 PM
Getting rid of Hillis was dumb and something I never understood.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 07:40 PM
Getting rid of Hillis was dumb and something I never understood.

But we have Brady Quinn...the best looking back up's back up in the league!

Well worth it!

Northman
09-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Getting rid of Hillis was dumb and something I never understood.

You and me both.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 07:45 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16181068

Manning's comments on their running game today:

Peyton Manning on the Colts' running game that gained 40 yards:
"The run game is going to be up and down. With three new starters on the offensive line it's going to take time to jell. We're going to keep fighting all of that."

Sure makes me feel better to read a sensible comment from Manning, explaining what is wrong with their running game, rather than blaming the coach, play calling, players, etc.

Northman
09-26-2010, 07:50 PM
Sure makes me feel better to read a sensible comment from Manning, explaining what is wrong with their running game, rather than blaming the coach, play calling, players, etc.

If the Colts were 1-2 right now i can assure you that fans and media alike would be criticizing them. You think the media and fans of SF are out in the streets celebrating their 0-3 start? I dont think so. Please, try to understand not everyone has rose colored glasses like you and try to be understanding about their frustration. :beer:

DenBronx
09-26-2010, 07:52 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16181068

Manning's comments on their running game today:

Peyton Manning on the Colts' running game that gained 40 yards:
"The run game is going to be up and down. With three new starters on the offensive line it's going to take time to jell. We're going to keep fighting all of that."

Sure makes me feel better to read a sensible comment from Manning, explaining what is wrong with their running game, rather than blaming the coach, play calling, players, etc.

oh but guess what we're fans and we're not under the spotlight so we can call it like we see it and not get in trouble with the locker room or coaches.


very political statement from manning. i'm sure he's starting a 1.something yards per carry thread as we speak on a colts forum.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 07:53 PM
If the Colts were 1-2 right now i can assure you that fans and media alike would be criticizing them. You think the media and fans of SF are out in the streets celebrating their 0-3 start? I dont think so. Please, try to understand not everyone has rose colored glasses like you and try to be understanding about their frustration. :beer:

I certainly am not happy that the Broncos lost today, but I truly can understand why their running game is not what everyone would like it to be right now.

And I am sure if the Colts were 1-2 now, they would be criticized; however, that does not take away from the fact as to the reasons why their running game is what it is right now - has nothing to do with rose colored glasses, but facts.

frauschieze
09-26-2010, 07:54 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16181068

Manning's comments on their running game today:

Peyton Manning on the Colts' running game that gained 40 yards:
"The run game is going to be up and down. With three new starters on the offensive line it's going to take time to jell. We're going to keep fighting all of that."

Sure makes me feel better to read a sensible comment from Manning, explaining what is wrong with their running game, rather than blaming the coach, play calling, players, etc.

Backhanded slams on people for their opinion doesn't help further a more respectful board.

Northman
09-26-2010, 08:04 PM
I certainly am not happy that the Broncos lost today, but I truly can understand why their running game is not what everyone would like it to be right now.

I cant. The running game has been an issue for a while now dating back to Shanahan. Last year the excuse was that it was the mixture of scheme. This year, its injuries which may or may not be a factor. Most players play with bumps and bruises all the time but still perform at a high level based upon the talent of said player.


And I am sure if the Colts were 1-2 now, they would be criticized; however, that does not take away from the fact as to the reasons why their running game is what it is right now - has nothing to do with rose colored glasses, but facts.

There is only one fact right now Carol and that is we cant run the ball with any authority. Our HC chooses to sign RB's who constantly battle the injury bug. The one RB we have that we drafted is a flash in the pan type of player and not a bruiser for goalline situations like we need. The one guy we did have who was HEALTHY he traded away. There's no common sense in that at all.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 08:04 PM
Backhanded slams on people for their opinion doesn't help further a more respectful board.

Excuse me - my post was a stand alone post, I did not quote anyone, and I am entitled to add my comments in regards to what Manning said.

Northman
09-26-2010, 08:07 PM
Excuse me - my post was a stand alone post, I did not quote anyone, and I am entitled to add my comments in regards to what Manning said.

It was this comment that she is referring too in which you try to make it sound like no one else knows what they are talking about. If you had left this comment out you would of been fine.


Sure makes me feel better to read a sensible comment from Manning, explaining what is wrong with their running game, rather than blaming the coach, play calling, players, etc.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 08:12 PM
It was this comment that she is referring too in which you try to make it sound like no one else knows what they are talking about. If you had left this comment out you would of been fine.

Hey - there is not enough time to scrutinize every post on here to see if everyone feels that every word in a particular post is fine or not. Again, that was my opinion, just like some people's opinion is that we should have kept Hillis, we should have done, etc., or we should not have done etc. In my opinion, there are plenty of posts where I might feel something should have been left out.

robert ethan
09-26-2010, 08:13 PM
Haven't you heard Martindale?

"Nobody runs on the Denver Broncos!". Not Moreno, not Buckhalter, not Maroney, or any of the other scrubs.

Northman
09-26-2010, 08:17 PM
Hey - there is not enough time to scrutinize every post on here to see if everyone feels that every word in a particular post is fine or not. Again, that was my opinion, just like some people's opinion is that we should have kept Hillis, we should have done, etc., or we should not have done etc. In my opinion, there are plenty of posts where I might feel something should have been left out.

Problem is, you cant make it personal. You may not have intended it too be a slam on people but it does come across that way.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 08:19 PM
Hey - there is not enough time to scrutinize every post on here to see if everyone feels that every word in a particular post is fine or not. Again, that was my opinion, just like some people's opinion is that we should have kept Hillis, we should have done, etc., or we should not have done etc. In my opinion, there are plenty of posts where I might feel something should have been left out.

You posted this in two places, Carol. Both seemed to have the intent that those being the most vocal about this team's limitations especially in the run game somehow are wrong/uninformed because Peyton views his situation with patience all while drawing the conclusion that our teams are more similar than not.

Northman
09-26-2010, 08:22 PM
The biggest problem with Peyton's comment is would anyone really expect him to come out and say "our RB's suck ass"? Furthermore, although i dont know what site i would use to determine how many TD's the Colts offense scores in the redzone compared to us for the last 5 years. I would be willing to bet that they are MUCH better in the redzone with their run game than we are. Just a hunch.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Problem is, you cant make it personal. You may not have intended it too be a slam on people but it does come across that way.

I am terribly sorry if some felt it was personal. Let me correct it by saying that I agreed with a quarterback's opinion on what was wrong with their run game. Is that better?

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 08:33 PM
I am terribly sorry if some felt it was personal. Let me correct it by saying that I agreed with a quarterback's opinion on what was wrong with their run game. Is that better?

No apology needed, Carol! We can all chalk it up to everybody being frustrated after a loss. At the end of the day, EVERYBODY here loves this team.

Northman
09-26-2010, 08:34 PM
I am terribly sorry if some felt it was personal. Let me correct it by saying that I agreed with a quarterback's opinion on what was wrong with their run game. Is that better?

Absolutely. :D

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 08:34 PM
You posted this in two places, Carol. Both seemed to have the intent that those being the most vocal about this team's limitations especially in the run game somehow are wrong/uninformed because Peyton views his situation with patience all while drawing the conclusion that our teams are more similar than not.

Oh, now I am being told what my intent seems to be. Also, I did not realize that you could not post the same thing in more than one thread. I will have to keep that in mind.

scott.475
09-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Soooo, about that 2.25 yards per carry we had today...:D

spikerman
09-26-2010, 08:49 PM
I think we all need to keep in mind that Hillis was only running against the Ravens, but the Broncos' backs were trying to run against the vaunted Colts' defense, oh... wait.

In all seriousness, Denver will not be able to consistently win until they at least have the threat of a running game. The Broncos' pass protection held up well today which surprises me because most offensive line coaches will tell you that pass protection schemes are typically more difficult to learn than run blocking.

EMB6903
09-26-2010, 08:51 PM
They are all problems.

We need to find a way to get Mark Ingrahm. That dude is going to be a beast.

Trent Richardson~~~~>Mark Ingram

silkamilkamonico
09-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Trent Richardson~~~~>Mark Ingram

LMAO

uhh, no.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 09:03 PM
Oh, now I am being told what my intent seems to be. Also, I did not realize that you could not post the same thing in more than one thread. I will have to keep that in mind.

Sure, Carol. Furthermore, where did I once state you cannot post the same thing in multiple places? :confused:

***NEWSFLASH***

I didn't!

Try to follow along. I simply made the point that you posted it twice and both times you posted it as some kind of defense to those bitching about the Broncos MAJOR problems running the ball. As if Peyton Manning and the Colt's situation is more similar to ours than it isn't :rolleyes: Or as if he is the authority on the matter.

Frau called you out on it and myself and others saw it the same as Frau had. I all but ignored your posts because I had a ton of respect for you and wasn't out to have a dialogue like this. That went out the window with the quoted post above DESPITE my previous post stating no apology needed.

Nice backpedaling by the way :elefant:

Poet
09-26-2010, 09:24 PM
Trent Richardson~~~~>Mark Ingram

Things that are wrong and make no sense for 500, please.

Dzone
09-26-2010, 09:33 PM
anybody that says anything critical of this team is not a true fan...LOL

Bosco
09-26-2010, 09:43 PM
Why can't we get the PBS problems corrected? Because...

- Ryan Clady is still not in real football shape and requires somewhat frequent substitutions.

- Stanley Daniels, while a nice surprise, is sorta like a slightly better Russ Hochstein. He's a guy you're happy to have if you get bit by the injury bug, but you know he's not a real answer.

- Walton and Beadles are rookies, and playing like it.

- Beadles is playing at RT after spending all of camp at LG because...

- Ryan Harris is still hurt.

We literally have ONE player on the offensive line that is a healthy veteran. The problem isn't Moreno, Maroney or any of the running backs.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-26-2010, 09:48 PM
Because...

- Ryan Clady is still not in real football shape and requires somewhat frequent substitutions.

- Stanley Daniels, while a nice surprise, is sorta like a slightly better Russ Hochstein. He's a guy you're happy to have if you get bit by the injury bug, but you know he's not a real answer.

- Walton and Beadles are rookies, and playing like it.

- Beadles is playing at RT after spending all of camp at LG because...

- Ryan Harris is still hurt.

We literally have ONE player on the offensive line that is a healthy veteran. The problem isn't Moreno, Maroney or any of the running backs.

Thank you so much :salute:

Dzone
09-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Hillis had 144 yards rushing today. McD deserves all the criticism he is getting for this blunder. Hillis will become another Alstott and mcd lovers will still say it was a good trade to unload hillis

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Shonn Greene is looking mighty fine to me. For those busting on him last night.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 09:53 PM
We literally have ONE player on the offensive line that is a healthy veteran. The problem isn't Moreno, Maroney or any of the running backs.

Well even then McDaniels deserves criticism for playing Harris in the Vikings game. A game that meant nothing. Oh wait, it meant getting your RT hurt for at least the first 3 games of the season. The same RT who McD proclaimed was a big part of the O and their blunders by pointing to the teams record with and without him.

Bosco
09-26-2010, 09:54 PM
Shonn Greene is looking mighty fine to me. For those busting on him last night.

You're looking for attention again, aren't you?

Bosco
09-26-2010, 09:55 PM
Well even then McDaniels deserves criticism for playing Harris in the Vikings game. A game that meant nothing. Oh wait, it meant getting your RT hurt for at least the first 3 games of the season. The same RT who McD proclaimed was a big part of the O and their blunders by pointing to the teams record with and without him.

Are you flipping serious? It's McD's fault that a 260lb running back rolled up Ryan's ankle?

Sweet merciful Jesus. We oughta just have them play flag football out there.

Jesus.

omahacolt
09-26-2010, 10:03 PM
i thought the concensus on this board was that the colts could get run on

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 10:03 PM
Are you flipping serious? It's McD's fault that a 260lb running back rolled up Ryan's ankle?

Sweet merciful Jesus. We oughta just have them play flag football out there.

Jesus.

Because there was so much for Ryan Harris to learn playing in the 4th preseason game against the Vikings :lol:

That is when injuries are most likely to happen. Players have often talked about playing in the preseason with unknowns.

It did LenDale White a lot of good to :rolleyes:

There's a reason coaches typically don't play their starters in the 4th preseason but by all means continue to give McD a free pass.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 10:04 PM
You're looking for attention again, aren't you?

Nope! Shonne Greene is doing all the talking for me :D Call me in four weeks when Moreno can do something even half way on par....or Maroney for that matter.

Northman
09-26-2010, 10:05 PM
i thought the concensus on this board was that the colts could get run on

If you have backs that can run than yes.

Bosco
09-26-2010, 10:13 PM
Because there was so much for Ryan Harris to learn playing in the 4th preseason game against the Vikings :lol:

That is when injuries are most likely to happen. Players have often talked about playing in the preseason with unknowns.

It did LenDale White a lot of good to :rolleyes:

There's a reason coaches typically don't play their starters in the 4th preseason but by all means continue to give McD a free pass.

It wasn't about learning anything. It was about getting Harris into game shape. Ryan Clady missed all of the preseason and training camp and he's still not into football shape 3 weeks into the season. Harris had been out since last November.

I know you're just throwing around hyperbole like you love to do, but would it have made you feel better if it happened in the 3rd preseason game?


Nope! Shonne Greene is doing all the talking for me :D Call me in four weeks when Moreno can do something even half way on par....or Maroney for that matter.

Are you sure you're watching the right back? Tomlinson is the one doing most the work. Shonn Greene has 8 carries for a whopping 24 yards.

Northman
09-26-2010, 10:15 PM
Clady looked fine to me out there today. In fact, all of them did except for the few penalties they had. Beadles had a nice chop block on one of Maroney's runs.

ChampWJ
09-26-2010, 10:19 PM
Nope! Shonne Greene is doing all the talking for me :D Call me in four weeks when Moreno can do something even half way on par....or Maroney for that matter.

Your clear bias against Moreno is clouding your view of Greene just as much in the opposite way even though I'm sure you'll refuse to acknowledge it. Moreno and Greene are different types of backs. Greene does not contribute in any way in catching the ball or pass blocking.

In fact, if you were to look at their career stats to date, you would have a hard time explaining Greene's contributions being "half way on par" with Moreno's.

The comparison then becomes even more skewed in Moreno's favor when you consider Greene is actually healthy and has decent blocking to work with.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 10:21 PM
It wasn't about learning anything. It was about getting Harris into game shape. Ryan Clady missed all of the preseason and training camp and he's still not into football shape 3 weeks into the season. Harris had been out since last November.

I know you're just throwing around hyperbole like you love to do, but would it have made you feel better if it happened in the 3rd preseason game?

Hyperbole? Right! That's rich considering you cite, time and again, subjective material.

Game shape? That's a nice story. Clady hadn't played all preseason as you mentioned and still isn't in game shape. However, McD feels comfortable enough to play him. If Clady is fine, chances are Ryan Harris would be fine, too.

Continue to defend the indefensible however, I suspect McDaniels would probably admit playing the starters in game 4 of the preseason was a mistake.




Are you sure you're watching the right back? Tomlinson is the one doing most the work. Shonn Greene has 8 carries for a whopping 24 yards.

But the runs were salty! I know who and what I am watching, Bosco.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 10:24 PM
Your clear bias against Moreno is clouding your view of Greene just as much in the opposite way even though I'm sure you'll refuse to acknowledge it. Moreno and Greene are different types of backs. Greene does not contribute in any way in catching the ball or pass blocking.

In fact, if you were to look at their career stats to date, you would have a hard time explaining Greene's contributions being "half way on par" with Moreno's.

The comparison then becomes even more skewed in Moreno's favor when you consider Greene is actually healthy and has decent blocking to work with.

I am not biased against Moreno. I was very vocal and often critical about the pick last year. I just felt like it was a bad move and done more to spite the chargers than making the right pick.

If you followed me, you would see that I was very excited and praised Moreno after both games but especially after the Seattle game.

The only thing about Moreno, for me, is he is injury prone. He deserves the label at this point. It should remain until he can stay healthy.

My point with Shonn Greene is I would rather have Moreno been picked by someone else and have used the 12 on Orakpo or on D in general and end up with Shonn Greene in the 2nd or third.

Moreno's production to this point isn't worthy of the 12th overall selection.

Ziggy
09-26-2010, 10:30 PM
Clady looked fine to me out there today. In fact, all of them did except for the few penalties they had. Beadles had a nice chop block on one of Maroney's runs.

Clady looked great to me. Beadles was getting beat like a drum, but I expect nothing less from a rookie going up against Mathis. Walton and Daniels are hot and cold. I expect this line to improve as the year goes along.

We can't count on Harris, so I hope that Beadles is the long term answer at RT. As far as Maroney goes, he dances more than Moreno. I was hoping that Andre Brown would get a chance to show what he could do.

Slick
09-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Because...

- Ryan Clady is still not in real football shape and requires somewhat frequent substitutions.

- Stanley Daniels, while a nice surprise, is sorta like a slightly better Russ Hochstein. He's a guy you're happy to have if you get bit by the injury bug, but you know he's not a real answer.

- Walton and Beadles are rookies, and playing like it.

- Beadles is playing at RT after spending all of camp at LG because...

- Ryan Harris is still hurt.

We literally have ONE player on the offensive line that is a healthy veteran. The problem isn't Moreno, Maroney or any of the running backs.

I disagree. Even with rookies, Daniels and a banged up Clady there were lanes to run in today. Maybe not so much on those goal line plays but there was room to run throughout the game.

I don't think it's the scheme either. These guys run tentatively or run up the backs of their blockers.

Bosco
09-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Hyperbole? Right! That's rich considering you cite, time and again, subjective material. Maybe so, but every claim I make on this forum that doesn't come from my own personal knowledge can be backed up with an outside source, or sources. Meanwhile, I'm sure you'll continue to tell us how Josh McDaniels conspired to keep Peyton Hillis down to make Moreno look good.


Game shape? That's a nice story. Clady hadn't played all preseason as you mentioned and still isn't in game shape. However, McD feels comfortable enough to play him. If Clady is fine, chances are Ryan Harris would be fine, too. Clady's only backup is Batiste, so unless you want him out there playing, McD probably doesn't have much choice. We've already moved one guard out to RT to cover for Harris.


Continue to defend the indefensible however, I suspect McDaniels would probably admit playing the starters in game 4 of the preseason was a mistake. Why? Because someone got hurt? I bet you blame Josh for our players getting hurt in training camp too.


But the runs were salty! I know who and what I am watching, Bosco. Ok. Personally if I was trying to make a point about the running game I wouldn't point to a guy getting 3 yards a pop in relief duty as my example, but that's just me.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Maybe so, but every claim I make on this forum that doesn't come from my own personal knowledge can be backed up with an outside source, or sources. Meanwhile, I'm sure you'll continue to tell us how Josh McDaniels conspired to keep Peyton Hillis down to make Moreno look good.

I didn't invent that theory. Ask Klis and half the Denver Post.



Clady's only backup is Batiste, so unless you want him out there playing, McD probably doesn't have much choice. We've already moved one guard out to RT to cover for Harris.

It still doesn't justify the risk in playing Harris in the 4th preseason game. It seems abundantly clear that there is far more downside to playing him than not. The worst that could happen is injury resulting in a lost season. The smart thing to do is not play him and spell him often. Instead we get to hear all these excuses about having a rookie RT as if McD had no hand in the matter :rolleyes:

Besides the idea that you are going to get a player into game shape in a quarter or two of play is bull shit anyway.



Why? Because someone got hurt? I bet you blame Josh for our players getting hurt in training camp too.

Nope. I love the way McD handles camp.



Ok. Personally if I was trying to make a point about the running game I wouldn't point to a guy getting 3 yards a pop in relief duty as my example, but that's just me.

Well again my point is I would rather have a guy in the 3rd round getting 3 YPC as opposed to a guy at #12 who continually gets hurt in practice and is injury prone.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 10:46 PM
I disagree. Even with rookies, Daniels and a banged up Clady there were lanes to run in today. Maybe not so much on those goal line plays but there was room to run throughout the game.

I don't think it's the scheme either. These guys run tentatively or run up the backs of their blockers.

I mentioned earlier that there were holes and lanes to run through but Maroney seemed to studder. If that's all it is, there is hope for improvement.

Bosco
09-26-2010, 10:58 PM
It still doesn't justify the risk in playing Harris in the 4th preseason game. It seems abundantly clear that there is far more downside to playing him than not. The worst that could happen is injury resulting in a lost season. The smart thing to do is not play him and spell him often. Instead we get to hear all these excuses about having a rookie RT as if McD had no hand in the matter :rolleyes: Then why not just pull them all during the preseason? Hell, the main reason they pull their starters early in the 4th game is to give the players on the bubble a chance to show what they got, so why not just apply that to the whole preseason?

See, you're not the only one who can play with hyperbole here.


Besides the idea that you are going to get a player into game shape in a quarter or two of play is bull shit anyway. Harris had been platooning with Batiste and Beadles for the 2nd and 3rd games as well.


Well again my point is I would rather have a guy in the 3rd round getting 3 YPC as opposed to a guy at #12 who continually gets hurt in practice and is injury prone. And you would have picked a guy in the 3rd who didn't fit our offense.

jhildebrand
09-26-2010, 11:08 PM
And you would have picked a guy in the 3rd who didn't fit our offense.

Well at this point I would take a player who can stay on the field in the 3rd round over one at #12 who can't stay on the field but somehow is a fit for our offense despite playing in a zone running scheme at Georgia and our team having gone to PBS. Great fit.

The Glue Factory
09-26-2010, 11:54 PM
Math fail.

Try 16 carries for 36 yards. Equals 2.25 ypc. Where's the fail? :tsk:

DenBronx
09-27-2010, 02:09 AM
Try 16 carries for 36 yards. Equals 2.25 ypc. Where's the fail? :tsk:

Nah, he's right. I posted in such a hurry I originally divided it backwards.



But Beef does like to be a know it all. Right Beef?

Dzone
09-27-2010, 02:41 AM
Maloney looked a lot like NoShow out there...It would be unamerican for true blooded fans to not criticize the coach. Mcd lovers need to accept that fact and not take it personal. He has done a few good things and he has done a lot of stupid things. Hillis rolled for 144 yards yesterday. Scheffler caught a touchdown pass. Cutler is leading the league in passing. Oh well

topscribe
09-27-2010, 10:13 AM
Backhanded slams on people for their opinion doesn't help further a more respectful board.

I don't know why anybody saluted this post. Of all the bashing that is done
on players and coaches on this board, Carol is the very least guilty.

-----

Thnikkaman
09-27-2010, 10:17 AM
I don't know why anybody saluted this post. Of all the bashing that is done
on players and coaches on this board, Carol is the very least guilty.

-----

It only makes the moderation team of this forum look bad.

The Glue Factory
09-27-2010, 11:18 AM
Maloney looked a lot like NoShow out there...It would be unamerican for true blooded fans to not criticize the coach. Mcd lovers need to accept that fact and not take it personal. He has done a few good things and he has done a lot of stupid things. Hillis rolled for 144 yards yesterday. Scheffler caught a touchdown pass. Cutler is leading the league in passing. Oh well

And it just defies logic to heap all the blame at McDaniel's feet as well. Case in point - Cutler ('nuff said coz if you need it explained, you didn't pay attention the first few dozen times.)

Scheffler? Not sure about that one but apparently not much of a team guy (ie suspended on the final game last year.)

Hillis? Even more in the dark on that one. Wish he wouldn't have been traded but then I'm not the HC either. Whether I liked it or hated I've still got to live with it.

In the end, most people will criticize leadership for dumb moves (eventually, aka Smith) but the supporters give the guy some slack when decisions are executed because they realize they don't know jack about the situation beyond what gets put out in the media (which is typically half speculation about what's going on anyways.)

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 11:46 AM
Why? :confused:

He is too stupid to play here. :rolleyes:


dont forget he muffed a KO:coffee:

Northman
09-27-2010, 11:53 AM
It only makes the moderation team of this forum look bad.

Why? Because they hold her accountable just like everyone else on the board? :lol:
There's no special treatment here.

jhildebrand
09-27-2010, 12:05 PM
dont forget he muffed a KO:coffee:

I guess Perish Cox is done for good.

frauschieze
09-27-2010, 12:22 PM
I don't know why anybody saluted this post. Of all the bashing that is done
on players and coaches on this board, Carol is the very least guilty.

-----

*shrugs*

I was not talking about bashing on players or coaches but the posters of this board. I found Carol's post insulting to everyone who expressed displeasure with the run game and I was not alone. But it's been discussed and handled and I don't feel the need to comment on it anymore.

But I would like to say, isn't it great to be able to express a wide variety of opinions on this board? :hi:

Tned
09-27-2010, 12:23 PM
It only makes the moderation team of this forum look bad.

That's how it's done on lesser forums. Thought you knew that already...

Tned
09-27-2010, 12:24 PM
But I would like to say, isn't it great to be able to express a wide variety of opinions on this board? :hi:

That's blasphemy, haven't you heard we employ censorship to quash a wide variety of opinions!!

broncofaninfla
09-27-2010, 12:32 PM
Our running game has been putrid since Mcd took the helm, the scheme sucks, the Oline sucks and the RB's suck. We are one demensional on offense, without the run this team will be bottom dwellers in the AFC West this year.

Tned
09-27-2010, 12:34 PM
Our running game has been putrid since Mcd took the helm, the scheme sucks, the Oline sucks and the RB's suck. We are one demensional on offense, without the run this team will be bottom dwellers in the AFC West this year.

Maybe once Clady and Harris get back to full strength, things will improve. In '08, when they were first year starters, Clady led the league in runs behind him, and Harris was third in the league for right tackles. Clearly they can be road graders when healthy.

Thnikkaman
09-27-2010, 12:52 PM
That's how it's done on lesser forums. Thought you knew that already...

Really, I thought that you debated it for 6 months before taking action on it. :elefant:

I can't fault McD for making the moves that he did based on the conditions that he made those decisions.

Based on the time line as I remember it:


Chris Simms sucked as a QB in high school arena league football.
We trade for Quinn (who didn't have too bad of a season for being in Clevland last year) and give up Hillis (who if I remember correctly was dealing with issues with his own confidence and holding on to the football).
We Draft Tebow
We find out that Quinn sucks, and Hillis is getting a second chance and proving us wrong


Yep, it sucks to see what we lost. Somewhere in that time line, I also forget that we hit the reset button on our O-Line. We have two rookies and a 1st year player starting for us, and they are doing a pretty damn good job protecting Orton. I believe its only a matter of time before they get the run blocking down. I would also love to see McD give Ball a chance. I think that he can continue to do what he did against Pitt in the pre-season.

Tned
09-27-2010, 12:55 PM
Really, I thought that you debated it for 6 months before taking action on it. :elefant:


Let me start a TH thread on that and get back to you... :coffee:

arapaho2
09-27-2010, 01:02 PM
I guess Perish Cox is done for good.


if the hillis rule is in effect still he should be

turftoad
09-27-2010, 01:04 PM
All I know is that I'm ecstatic about this new power running scheme that McD has put into place. :heh:

Beats the hell out of that old zone scheme we used to have. :confused:

Oh, it's done wonders for our red zone whoes also. :salute:

Thnikkaman
09-27-2010, 01:08 PM
*shrugs*

I was not talking about bashing on players or coaches but the posters of this board. I found Carol's post insulting to everyone who expressed displeasure with the run game and I was not alone. But it's been discussed and handled and I don't feel the need to comment on it anymore.

But I would like to say, isn't it great to be able to express a wide variety of opinions on this board? :hi:

In context, Carol could be calling out the Media rather than insulting someone on the board. Its a bit presumptuous that she is calling anyone out. We are all upset that we aren't running the ball effectively. Unfortunately, we aren't all involved in team meetings, practices, and in the film room finding out first hand what McDaniels is going to do about it.

Tned
09-27-2010, 01:11 PM
All I know is that I'm ecstatic about this new power running scheme that McD has put into place. :heh:

Beats the hell out of that old zone scheme we used to have. :confused:

Oh, it's done wonders for our red zone whoes also. :salute:

That's probably why teams around the league are moving away from the ZBS.

Tned
09-27-2010, 01:12 PM
:focus:

Come on folks, this is about the running game. Please use the report function if you have an issue with a post. TIA

Northman
09-27-2010, 01:15 PM
In context, Carol could be calling out the Media rather than insulting someone on the board.

Except of course that the only talk about how bad the running game was yesterday was coming from the fans on this forum. She wasnt answering some random article, she posted her comment specifically at those who were unhappy yesterday with the running game. But as Frau said, they handled it.

Northman
09-27-2010, 01:16 PM
:focus:

Come on folks, this is about the running game. Please use the report function if you have an issue with a post. TIA

My bad. :salute:

Tned
09-27-2010, 01:16 PM
:focus:

Come on folks, this is about the running game. Please use the report function if you have an issue with a post. TIA

Speaking of the 2 ypc carry...

Tned
09-27-2010, 01:21 PM
FWIW, McDaniels was just asked about Manning's comment about the new players on the line and he said, "I don't agree...."

He said they start the play well, they get a hole, the get a lane, but they don't finish it. They have almost no runs for losses, which is good. However, they aren't taking advantage of the holes, "finish the plays as well as we start them" the running game will be much improved.

dogfish
09-27-2010, 01:31 PM
FWIW, McDaniels was just asked about Manning's comment about the new players on the line and he said, "I don't agree...."

He said they start the play well, they get a hole, the get a lane, but they don't finish it. They have almost no runs for losses, which is good. However, they aren't taking advantage of the holes, "finish the plays as well as we start them" the running game will be much improved.

well, he pretty much couldn't come out and say it any clearer; "our running backs suck nads". . .

seriously, aside from possibly knowshon, we don't have a back on our roster who belongs in this league right now. . .

we have three picks in the first two rounds next year. . . as far as i'm concerned, those picks need to be pretty much earmarked for two DLs and a RB unless there's some unbelievable value on the board. . .

Day1BroncoFan
09-27-2010, 01:31 PM
FWIW, McDaniels was just asked about Manning's comment about the new players on the line and he said, "I don't agree...."

He said they start the play well, they get a hole, the get a lane, but they don't finish it. They have almost no runs for losses, which is good. However, they aren't taking advantage of the holes, "finish the plays as well as we start them" the running game will be much improved.

Who's fault would this be, RB or OL?

DenBronx
09-27-2010, 01:33 PM
FWIW, McDaniels was just asked about Manning's comment about the new players on the line and he said, "I don't agree...."

He said they start the play well, they get a hole, the get a lane, but they don't finish it. They have almost no runs for losses, which is good. However, they aren't taking advantage of the holes, "finish the plays as well as we start them" the running game will be much improved.



Sounds like McDaniels kinda agrees with alot of us then. Those extra 3 yards with a quicker burst build up over the course of the game. Seems like our RB's take too long to hit the hole.

If Maroney would have been just a bit quicker on the goal line yesterday we would have had 7 instead of 3. LT in the Jets game had almost the same situation but he just looks so much quicker once he gets an open lane.

DenBronx
09-27-2010, 01:36 PM
Who's fault would this be, RB or OL?

I still think it's both. Every week there's a new back or differant line.


Looks like Harris and Moreno might be out another week.

Tned
09-27-2010, 01:38 PM
Who's fault would this be, RB or OL?

Based on what he was saying, I would say both. The initial holes are being made (doing well at the start of the play), but then either are missing blocks at the second level or bad reads (failing to finish the play).

He said that when they start finishing the plays as well as they start them, some of those three yard runs will turn into 20 yard runs.

However, he didn't specifically say who wasn't finishing the plays (at least I don't remember, we will have to wait for the transcript to be posted).

Day1BroncoFan
09-27-2010, 01:38 PM
I still think it's both. Every week there's a new back or differant line.


Looks like Harris and Moreno might be out another week.

Yea, this is a problem for sure. Can you say consistency?

Out another week, crap.

scott.475
09-27-2010, 06:42 PM
All I know is that I'm ecstatic about this new power running scheme that McD has put into place. :heh:

Can you have a power running scheme without a power back? Just wondering.

About the line, I'm sorry, maybe they are not great, but when your backs can't push anyone backwards, you are going to have trouble in the running game, especially the redzone. Our backs go down easily on first and 1-on-1 contact. If any of them had any vision and/or speed, maybe they could make something happen on their own when they see a hole has collapsed. I don't even want to talk about Maroney or Buckhalter's performance this year, and so far Moreno's gift is he has a bit of shiftiness in space. By that I mean I have seen him hurdle and avoid tacklers once he is going, but he still goes down way too easy on first contact. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but there is nothing wrong with any fan thinking it would be nice to have a back that can actually carry a defender or put one on his back once in awhile. When I think power running game, I picture backs who can actually move a pile 1/2 yard for a TD.

claymore
09-27-2010, 06:55 PM
Is there any negatives that havent been covered yet? Or are we good?

elsid13
09-27-2010, 06:56 PM
Is there any negatives that havent been covered yet? Or are we good?

We haven't talked about the lack of screen plays in the offense yet. :D

Tned
09-27-2010, 06:57 PM
Is there any negatives that havent been covered yet? Or are we good?

Someone sent me this by email this morning (by clicking the contact us link on BF):



BREAKING BRONCOS NEWS: Training at the Paul D. Bowlen Memorial Broncos Centre was delayed after a player found an unknown white powdery substance on the ground. Training was suspended while police were called in.

After analysis, experts determined that the white substance, Unfamiliar to most of the players, was in fact the goal line.

Practice will resume this afternoon......

(I've been a Bronco fan all their life!)

claymore
09-27-2010, 06:58 PM
We haven't talked about the lack of screen plays in the offense yet. :D

Hahaha LOL! That would throw everyone for a loop.

dogfish
09-27-2010, 06:58 PM
Is there any negatives that havent been covered yet? Or are we good?

i'm sure you can dig something up. . . :lol:

claymore
09-27-2010, 06:59 PM
Someone sent me this by email this morning (by clicking the contact us link on BF):

I would love to send that to McD...!!!!! Actually to Bowlen, I would love to see his face reading it.

claymore
09-27-2010, 07:01 PM
i'm sure you can dig something up. . . :lol:

I tried to get mad about it last night, but I couldnt muster up the emotion. You can only go up from where im at. :laugh:

The Glue Factory
09-27-2010, 07:27 PM
I tried to get mad about it last night, but I couldnt muster up the emotion. You can only go up from where im at. :laugh:

Well it's about time clay! :lol:

scott.475
09-27-2010, 08:13 PM
I tried to get mad about it last night, but I couldnt muster up the emotion. You can only go up from where im at. :laugh:

Clay, you b@#$ard, don't you know any time someone thinks things can't get worse only means you are on the brink of cataclysm. Running backs be darned, I am holding you responsible for any further suckitude we may experience this year.

horsepig
09-27-2010, 11:07 PM
Oh, now I am being told what my intent seems to be. Also, I did not realize that you could not post the same thing in more than one thread. I will have to keep that in mind.

Chill, Carol. You've been around long enough not to get sucked into these retarded tete'a'tete's.

Ignore it and live on to fight another thread!

PS: I got your innocent point, and I agree.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
09-27-2010, 11:46 PM
Someone sent me this by email this morning (by clicking the contact us link on BF):

That's an old one. Been making the rounds for 10 or so years. :D

HORSEPOWER 56
09-28-2010, 10:23 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16181068

Manning's comments on their running game today:

Peyton Manning on the Colts' running game that gained 40 yards:
"The run game is going to be up and down. With three new starters on the offensive line it's going to take time to jell. We're going to keep fighting all of that."

Sure makes me feel better to read a sensible comment from Manning, explaining what is wrong with their running game, rather than blaming the coach, play calling, players, etc.

Peyton Manning doesn't and hasn't ever needed a running game to win football games. The Broncos haven't been able to say that since Elway retired...

scott.475
09-29-2010, 09:29 AM
Peyton Manning doesn't and hasn't ever needed a running game to win football games. The Broncos haven't been able to say that since Elway retired...

I have to respectfully disagree in part. Manning is a QB talent like the NFL has never seen, he has an unbelievable passing talent. Regarding Elway, it wasn't UNTIL we had an unbelievable running game that we were finally able to win a Superbowl. Yes, he had won a lot of games, but until we could compete with the NFC on the ground we were not able to win the big one. Right now we only have a respctable passing game, no run, and no redzone offense. Something needs to change, I am not sure there is a whole lot more we can do with our passing game, so what's left?

Thnikkaman
09-29-2010, 09:54 AM
I have to respectfully disagree in part. Manning is a QB talent like the NFL has never seen, he has an unbelievable passing talent. Regarding Elway, it wasn't UNTIL we had an unbelievable running game that we were finally able to win a Superbowl. Yes, he had won a lot of games, but until we could compete with the NFC on the ground we were not able to win the big one. Right now we only have a respctable passing game, no run, and no redzone offense. Something needs to change, I am not sure there is a whole lot more we can do with our passing game, so what's left?

In addition to what you are saying. Manning has not had very much post season success without a running game.

Tned
09-29-2010, 12:00 PM
In addition to what you are saying. Manning has not had very much post season success without a running game.

Yep, and most years, even when they didn't run much, when they did run, it was effective. They have always had good backs, that got the big runs when needed running those stretch run plays.

Lonestar
09-29-2010, 01:38 PM
Just read this thread from start to finnish. Some impressions I have are.

No one thinks that Josh won't make some attempt to fix this issue or is unable to do so.

Me I think he has priorities the first being keeping this QB, that lots of folks believed was a joke, UPRIGHT.

There is only so much you can do at a time.

We have exactly four players back from last year that started any games in the running aspect of the offense. All four if which are coming off some kind of injury and it appears to me that none of them are 100%.

So let's repeat it one more time.
Rookie ORT who has been playing OLT in college and while with the broncos OTG. The only reason he is there is OFT injury harris is out again with a injury that is not in his normal quiver. This something that will bother him for along time.

An other alternatives none that I see for now.

Rookie OC playing pretty well IMO but still a rookie. Gonna get beat now and then as he learns the game.

1st year OLG that has all the attributes to make HUGE impact there.

Clady still not where he was before the acl

I think anyone can see that it has not fixed all of the problems.

I also believe that few can critize getting rid of hamilton or wiegman for their poor performance last year.

So I ask does Josh make a decision to fix the Pass protection issuse first or work on run blocking.

Simple decision for me keep the one person on the TEAM that if he is hurt we are in HUGE dodo HUGE. Quinn is not remotely ready to make a difference.

Tebow still is figuring out gAme speed along with the level of play in the NFL. He is not ready to take over if Orton goes down.

All of our biggie horses are recievers especially while the RB's are not up to snuff. He brought maroney in to give depth to the area figuring havin run the same or very simular scheme last year he could make an immediate impact. I suspect the thigh issue is still enough to cause some hesitation on his part.

So we have 4 players back from last years Running unit all of which are not 100%.
Who thought this would be a strong point on the squad?

Until the OL has some time to work on it, things will not get better.

Yes hillis is having a good year in cle more power to him. And just maybe he would have the same impact here this year. But I can see why Josh jumped at a chance to get Quinn as he was the only QB in the hunt ahead of Orton last year when they were trading jay.

Let's see a high #1 pick veteran starter QB or 7th round RB that was not used much the past 3 years and we also get another late round pick. Folks that is a no brainer. At least to me. Posting from 36000 feet somewhere over Arkansas.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

HORSEPOWER 56
09-29-2010, 11:27 PM
BS. He's a gu ythat can make something out of nothing. He wouldn't be nearly as good here as Tennessee, but he would still be a capable threat, as well as a long run here and there.

There isn't a single oppurtunity for a long run with any of our guys. There was with Buckhalter here and there last year, but that disappeared along with the only winning stretch we've had in 19 games.

Moreno is are the type of RB that can do something when something is available. You know, the same quality that 70%+ other starters in the NFL have. Big deal.

Maroney, who the ---- knows.

Guys love to blame Moreno for the lack of rushing yards and seeing as how there's nothing to compare him to I can't argue against that notion, but don't you find it the least bit strange that both Buckhalter and Maroney had well over 4 YPC averages when they arrived in Denver? Lendale White, also. Now, look at their numbers and tell me again that it's all their fault. Re-watch the games (if you recorded them) and tell me the O-line is getting any push on running plays.

Guys keep talking about the backs missing holes... I challenge you to show me those holes. Maroney, Buck and White sure didn't have any problems finding holes when playing for their previous teams. Did they all just magically start sucking at the same time? Lance Ball and Bruce Hall weren't successful either. So you're saying out of 5 RBs, that none of them has the skills to be a professional ball player?

If Orton was the most sacked QB in the league would all of the blame be laid at his feet especially when it was obvious he was being hit before he could even set his feet and the O-line was blatantly missing blocks? Of course not.

I prefer to use simple logic and look at the common denominator which = the O-LINE. None of our backs, while they may not be superstars are definitely in that "average" range (you know, the type of guys we won with for years after Portis was traded). I refuse to believe that all of them just forgot how to run the football effectively all at the same time.

It's the O-line, it has always been the O-line...

dogfish
09-29-2010, 11:48 PM
Guys love to blame Moreno for the lack of rushing yards and seeing as how there's nothing to compare him to I can't argue against that notion, but don't you find it the least bit strange that both Buckhalter and Maroney had well over 4 YPC averages when they arrived in Denver? Lendale White, also. Now, look at their numbers and tell me again that it's all their fault. Re-watch the games (if you recorded them) and tell me the O-line is getting any push on running plays.

Guys keep talking about the backs missing holes... I challenge you to show me those holes. Maroney, Buck and White sure didn't have any problems finding holes when playing for their previous teams. Did they all just magically start sucking at the same time? Lance Ball and Bruce Hall weren't successful either. So you're saying out of 5 RBs, that none of them has the skills to be a professional ball player?

If Orton was the most sacked QB in the league would all of the blame be laid at his feet especially when it was obvious he was being hit before he could even set his feet and the O-line was blatantly missing blocks? Of course not.

I prefer to use simple logic and look at the common denominator which = the O-LINE. None of our backs, while they may not be superstars are definitely in that "average" range (you know, the type of guys we won with for years after Portis was traded). I refuse to believe that all of them just forgot how to run the football effectively all at the same time.

It's the O-line, it has always been the O-line...

clearly, the line hasn't been blocking well, and the playcalling doesn't seem to help much, but. . . i don't think that absolves our running backs of the fact that they all suck, outside of moreno. . . OR, maybe it's kinder to note that they're alldinged up, which is true, but. . . they've pretty much sucked hard this year, too-- line can't tale ALL the blame for a running game as bad as this one, there's moooore than enough to spread it around and let everyone get a nice big helping. . .

maroney sucked the last two years in new england as well, despite some success finding the end zone. . . some people will inevitably argue the term "sucked," but whatever. . . you can split hairs over it, but 3.9 YPC just isn't that good-- although it's better than the 3.3 he averaged the year before. . . you have to go back to his second season to find a YPC over 4.0. . . so, is he a good back hampered by our poor blocking-- or just a guy in decline, past the three-year expiration date RBs come with? watch the game again and check out all his east-west dance moves, and tell me what you think. . . belichick knows talent, he rarely gives away guys that are valuable unless it's over money, and maroney's contract isn't that ridiculous. . .

dude hits the hole with ZERO authority. . . he looks friggin' scared out there, he's got the worst case of twinkletoes i think i've ever seen at this level. . . and buck just looks old to me, sorry-- as i said earlier, maybe he's just hobbled. . . he certainly isn't running with any authority either. . . and i know it's tough when there's no blocking, but the difference between our guys and a real runner like mojo drew or steven jackson is that those guys have decisiveness and leg drive, and can typically grind out a few yards when there's nothing as well as maximize when there is something. . .

none of our guys right now look even close to that, although i do think moreno will be more productive if he can ever get healthy long enough to get in a groove. . .

Tned
09-30-2010, 07:00 AM
Guys love to blame Moreno for the lack of rushing yards and seeing as how there's nothing to compare him to I can't argue against that notion, but don't you find it the least bit strange that both Buckhalter and Maroney had well over 4 YPC averages when they arrived in Denver? Lendale White, also. Now, look at their numbers and tell me again that it's all their fault. Re-watch the games (if you recorded them) and tell me the O-line is getting any push on running plays.

Guys keep talking about the backs missing holes... I challenge you to show me those holes. Maroney, Buck and White sure didn't have any problems finding holes when playing for their previous teams. Did they all just magically start sucking at the same time? Lance Ball and Bruce Hall weren't successful either. So you're saying out of 5 RBs, that none of them has the skills to be a professional ball player?

If Orton was the most sacked QB in the league would all of the blame be laid at his feet especially when it was obvious he was being hit before he could even set his feet and the O-line was blatantly missing blocks? Of course not.

I prefer to use simple logic and look at the common denominator which = the O-LINE. None of our backs, while they may not be superstars are definitely in that "average" range (you know, the type of guys we won with for years after Portis was traded). I refuse to believe that all of them just forgot how to run the football effectively all at the same time.

It's the O-line, it has always been the O-line...

A couple thoughts.

First, you say "ever since they arrived in Denver" they had high YPC, and look at them now -- that they all have low YPC. While it's true this year Moreno and Buckhalter both have low YPC, last year in a full season, Buck was 5.4, but Moreno was only 3.8.

They ran behind the same line, and for the most part were used interchangeably last year (meaning Buck wasn't just a third down back and Moreno wasn't just a short yardage back).

This year, Buck's average is also low, and to my eye, he doesn't have the burst he had last year, so I wonder if he is either still hurt or not up to speed conditioning wise after the pre-season injury.

Either way, my point is that there may not be a 'simple' answer or simple logic that is the answer here, because this year Buckhalter has come back to Moreno, because last year there was a major difference in their running performance.

As to Maroney, if you rewatched the Colts game, then you probably saw how often Maroney hit the hole fast, and then as he reaches/passes the LOS, he makes a move/stutter, only to give the Colts defense time to collapse on him. Rather than the one move and go, he finds the hole and then dances. That constant hesitation probably cost him 1-2 YPC in that game. He appears to be looking for the 10-20 yard run, rather than taking the 3-5 yards that are there, and as a result got 2 YPC.

Lonestar
09-30-2010, 09:59 AM
Me I'll let the coaches make the decisions. I suspect they have better game film and expertise and KNOW how badly the player is dinged.

I also believe that now thay have the Pass protect aspect of the game pretty well up to speed they will out more emphasis in the run blocking.

If harris is back then we have a veteran on the R Side instead of a roiokie olaying out if position. He is a natural OLT who they were giving lots of time @ OLG.

While I'm not a huge harris fan he is better there than beadles was.

When he comes back then we only have TWO spots with kiddies at. Only 40% of the OL instead of 60%.
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Ravage!!!
09-30-2010, 10:22 AM
I just haven't seen a burst from Moreno yet. Sure some of the holes are huge, but there are RBs throughout the NFL that make due with the same kind of holes. Its just called bursting through, plowing through, or finding the crease. As of right now, our backs don't do that.

I hate the word "bust" and never use it to describe someone from my perspecive. But as of right now, Moreno isn't the back we were HOPING to have when we used the 12th overall pick on him. He's not the explosive, game changing, play making RB that we hoped he would be. He's just not.

ANY RB in the NFL can carry the average right now. I mean, its not like any of our RBs are doing something 'special' that every RB in the NFL couldn't do.. imo. When you have a top 1st round pick doing that, it makes you a fan pretty disappointed.

There is no doubt that the NFL is a passing league and being able to pass the ball is EXTREMELY important. More important than the run nowdays. But you have to be able to run the ball well ENOUGH. We just don't have that YET. I don't think we'll have it all year long. I don't think we have the talent to have much of a running game.

But I do hope that we get something, so that we don't have to ask our QB to throw the ball 57 times a game.

Tned
09-30-2010, 12:35 PM
Me I'll let the coaches make the decisions. I suspect they have better game film and expertise and KNOW how badly the player is dinged.


Obviously, we all let the coaches make the decisions, as we have no say in the matter. However, all of us, me, you, just about every other person on this board posts our opinions about players, coaches, schemes, etc. It's why we're here.

Lonestar
09-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Obviously, we all let the coaches make the decisions, as we have no say in the matter. However, all of us, me, you, just about every other person on this board posts our opinions about players, coaches, schemes, etc. It's why we're here.



I agree but some folks (pardon that term) want everyone to believe that there way is the only idea.

I know I have been as guilty as anyone in doing that. But am trying to moderate my posts in that area. By saying what I did is a way of reminding me that while I may have strong ideas about what is right and wrong. It is the coaches that will decide.

Elevation inc
09-30-2010, 01:42 PM
I just haven't seen a burst from Moreno yet. Sure some of the holes are huge, but there are RBs throughout the NFL that make due with the same kind of holes. Its just called bursting through, plowing through, or finding the crease. As of right now, our backs don't do that.

I hate the word "bust" and never use it to describe someone from my perspecive. But as of right now, Moreno isn't the back we were HOPING to have when we used the 12th overall pick on him. He's not the explosive, game changing, play making RB that we hoped he would be. He's just not.

ANY RB in the NFL can carry the average right now. I mean, its not like any of our RBs are doing something 'special' that every RB in the NFL couldn't do.. imo. When you have a top 1st round pick doing that, it makes you a fan pretty disappointed.

There is no doubt that the NFL is a passing league and being able to pass the ball is EXTREMELY important. More important than the run nowdays. But you have to be able to run the ball well ENOUGH. We just don't have that YET. I don't think we'll have it all year long. I don't think we have the talent to have much of a running game.

But I do hope that we get something, so that we don't have to ask our QB to throw the ball 57 times a game.

i think that both the OL and moreno are a work in progress, untill moreno is healthy and consistent and the OL gets it, its just gonna take sometime....

The Glue Factory
09-30-2010, 02:20 PM
i think that both the OL and moreno are a work in progress, untill moreno is healthy and consistent and the OL gets it, its just gonna take sometime....

Wasn't our last "star" (read 1st round pick) RB injury prone during his first two years. Then in his third year he totally blew up KC for like 500 rushing TDs and a bazillion yards? Granted that was a lifetime ago when the Lombardi's in Dove Valley were just installed but I seem to remember that RB being under fire his first two years like our current one.

dogfish
09-30-2010, 02:36 PM
Wasn't our last "star" (read 1st round pick) RB injury prone during his first two years. Then in his third year he totally blew up KC for like 500 rushing TDs and a bazillion yards? Granted that was a lifetime ago when the Lombardi's in Dove Valley were just installed but I seem to remember that RB being under fire his first two years like our current one.

hunh?

the last RB we took in the 1st round was steve sewell back in '85. . .

edit: are you referring to portis? he was only here two years, and was a monster right directly out of the chute. . .

Ravage!!!
09-30-2010, 03:44 PM
Wasn't our last "star" (read 1st round pick) RB injury prone during his first two years. Then in his third year he totally blew up KC for like 500 rushing TDs and a bazillion yards? Granted that was a lifetime ago when the Lombardi's in Dove Valley were just installed but I seem to remember that RB being under fire his first two years like our current one.


hunh?

the last RB we took in the 1st round was steve sewell back in '85. . .

edit: are you referring to portis? he was only here two years, and was a monster right directly out of the chute. . .

I'm a bit confused, as well, GLue. Who are you talking about? I, personally, can't think of a back that took 3 years to finally explode onto the scene.

Ravage!!!
09-30-2010, 03:45 PM
i think that both the OL and moreno are a work in progress, untill moreno is healthy and consistent and the OL gets it, its just gonna take sometime....

Nothing to disagree with, really. Other than I know I personally will have more patience for an OL to get it than an RB. :beer:

Elevation inc
09-30-2010, 03:50 PM
Nothing to disagree with, really. Other than I know I personally will have more patience for an OL to get it than an RB. :beer:

i think thats fair, the stats i posted in the profootball focus thread show our young Ol is having problems, but thats somewhat normal, not every OL player can be clady out the gate...haha, but it also shows that moreno, buck and maroney have some issues there struggling with as well.....for maroney and moreno could be health and game shape, for buck it could just be father time.....i think we will come around here soon...but it certainly cant take forever or we will be out of the race this year way to quick.....

The Glue Factory
09-30-2010, 04:15 PM
Then my ancient memory faculties are failing me. I thought for sure Portis got dinged in his first couple years. Granted he was great in the games he played but I seem to remember people were complaing that he was injury prone.

broncofanatic1987
09-30-2010, 06:16 PM
Maroney had plenty of holes opened by the line, before sidestepping/cutting into defenders. He looked pretty bad out there.

There was an article at denverpost.com where he says he missed some reads. He didn't use his short time with the team or his lack of playing time due to injury as an excuse. Maybe he will get better.

Tned
09-30-2010, 06:23 PM
There was an article at denverpost.com where he says he missed some reads. He didn't use his short time with the team or his lack of playing time due to injury as an excuse. Maybe he will get better.

Keep meaning to comment on your avvy. Seeker turned out to be a better show than I expected.

What I liked about Maroney was his initial burst to the line. What I didn't like was his dancing once he crossed the LOS. Hopefully, with film study and more time on the team, that will improve.

I Eat Staples
09-30-2010, 06:36 PM
Then my ancient memory faculties are failing me. I thought for sure Portis got dinged in his first couple years. Granted he was great in the games he played but I seem to remember people were complaing that he was injury prone.

Portis always was and still is injury prone.

The Glue Factory
09-30-2010, 07:48 PM
Portis always was and still is injury prone.

I stopped following him when he was shipped off to the NFC.

TXBRONC
09-30-2010, 10:38 PM
Then my ancient memory faculties are failing me. I thought for sure Portis got dinged in his first couple years. Granted he was great in the games he played but I seem to remember people were complaing that he was injury prone.

Your ancient memory as you put it isn't completely wrong. In his second season he missed three games with a bruised sternum nevertheless he still put up over 1550 yards, a ypc over 5.0 and double digit touchdowns.