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rcsodak
09-23-2010, 02:22 PM
OK. Here's a question.

Does a team want to have a "balanced" attack, or have the ability to be able to attack the opponent's weakness?
Should team A be able to dial up the pass against a poor pass D while mixing in a few runs just to keep the D honest, or short yardage, or team B who attempts to stay 50/50 and maybe not excel at either but keeps the D guessing?

A or B?
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Northman
09-23-2010, 02:25 PM
Colts are weak vs the run. If Denver can they should use the template that Houston laid out and then throw the pass in when needed. Running the ball not only keeps Peyton off the field and out of sync but allows Denver to control the clock and keep our suspect defense fresh.

DenBronx
09-23-2010, 02:33 PM
Running the ball chews up the clock and keeps Manning off the field. But if the passing game is their then we need to try and score score and score some more. We need to find out what works very early in the game and stick with it.


I think the key is going to be turnovers on defense. If we can create turnovers it will eliminate us getting into a shootout, which we do not want to happen against Manning.


And 3rd downs on both sides of the field. We can not let Clark be the key on 3rd down to allow drives to continue and we MUST keep our own drives alive on 3rd down.


But I would think we would go into the game with a 60 % passing and 40% running mindset only because we seem to be stronger in the passing game right now.

rcsodak
09-23-2010, 02:47 PM
Ok, but I'm talking for the entire season. Which kind of offense is 'preferred?
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Northman
09-23-2010, 02:56 PM
Ok, but I'm talking for the entire season. Which kind of offense is 'preferred?
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My guess? Balanced.

We've done the all offense (passing), no defense in 08' and didnt fair too well. We just simply got outscored. I think trying to control the clock and keep the defense as fresh as possible would be the right move. Not too mention when the weather gets worse we will need to rely on the running game more.

DenBronx
09-23-2010, 02:58 PM
Ok, but I'm talking for the entire season. Which kind of offense is 'preferred?
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The one that wins games. :D


I think a passing attack. It quiets the crowd faster and teams have to play catch up which most don't like to do. In our offense I think Kyle fits the mold perfectly. He doesn't make a whole lot of mistakes and goes through his reads very quickly. With the talent we have at WR and a mistake free/system QB we could see good things on offense. I must say I'm pleasantly suprised that Kyle has stepped up this year.

Usually teams will run to open up the passing game but in our style of offense I think we will pass to open up the run game.

rationalfan
09-23-2010, 03:02 PM
I think the key is going to be turnovers on defense

i think the key will be scoring more points than the opponent. works every time.

DenBronx
09-23-2010, 03:02 PM
Every team also game plans accordingly to what style of defense their playing against. If team A. has trouble stopping the run then you of course plan to run the rock. If team B. has trouble in coverage then you throw it. Each week teams go over hours of film to break down the other teams weaknesses and I'm sure we have in the back of our cordinators minds that the Colts don't do well against the run. So we should at least try it.


Then there's team C. the raiders....which all around suck and you can do anything to them.

underrated29
09-23-2010, 03:21 PM
I like to do what I do best. And I like to attack their weaknesses.

I dont give a beelp about balance. This is not yoga, or feng sui. This is me stepping up to the plate and bringing it.

So since we are a passing team, I like to go with majority pass. It is what works, what is comfortable and what we do best. As for indy, their weakness is run d. So if it was me. I would come out and pass and screen, then switch it up and throw in a few runs. But not balance, just enough to get their D tired and keep long sustaning drives.


I bet Tim Tebow see some action this game and really works the Indy defense!

Lonestar
09-23-2010, 04:20 PM
I say a balanced attackep That can go after the weak spot of their defense.

That said, this scheme is a pass first, spread them out to see who they are going to double up on. It has miltiple crossing patterns and almost always someone gets open for a moment after being wiped off by the D player or our other recievers.

I believe Josh has always preached we are going to attack their soft spots. To keep the ball moving.
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Lonestar
09-23-2010, 04:24 PM
Yes Tebow just might tire out those pass rushers. If he was knowledgeable with the entire playbook I'd say let him screw with their minds.
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I Eat Staples
09-23-2010, 04:26 PM
Honestly in today's game you have to rely primarily on the pass.

I'd take team A.

rcsodak
09-23-2010, 08:32 PM
Honestly in today's game you have to rely primarily on the pass.

I'd take team A.

Ok. But the pass was only an example. What if that team was a rushing team, say the NYJ? And passing was frightful?

Again, is it better to be a team that can/does attack the D's weaknesses, or be balanced?

gobroncsnv
09-23-2010, 08:53 PM
It would make the most sense to me to go straight at Freeney. Break him down some. Weaken his rush by serving him some pancakes.

I Eat Staples
09-23-2010, 09:05 PM
Ok. But the pass was only an example. What if that team was a rushing team, say the NYJ? And passing was frightful?

Again, is it better to be a team that can/does attack the D's weaknesses, or be balanced?

I'd prefer a passing team, but ultimately I'd play to my team's strength. I'd pass with the Colts and run with the Jets.

Okay, I'm being difficult. To answer your question, I'd go after the team's weakness.

MasterShake
09-23-2010, 09:13 PM
"Balanced" is a bit of a goofy term in the course of a football game. Its not like you run, pass, run, punt (unless you have Dan Reeves as a coach). I think you use what you are best at to get a comfortable lead then try to run as much as possible to control the clock. Nothing is worse when you are trying to put a team away than an incomplete pass that loses a down AND stops the clock. Of course there is no such thing as a "comfortable lead" in the NFL, but I still say you do what you do best 60-70% and THEN shift to the run if you get ahead.

arapaho2
09-24-2010, 10:44 AM
Colts are weak vs the run. If Denver can they should use the template that Houston laid out and then throw the pass in when needed. Running the ball not only keeps Peyton off the field and out of sync but allows Denver to control the clock and keep our suspect defense fresh.


problem with that is the texans are the #1 rushing offense...we are the 27th

little harder to controll the clock averging 2.4 yards per carry then it is at 4.8ypc

jhildebrand
09-24-2010, 11:48 AM
The one that scores touchdowns!

Lonestar
09-24-2010, 12:05 PM
"Balanced" is a bit of a goofy term in the course of a football game. Its not like you run, run, pass PUNT (unless you have John Elway under Dan Reeves as a coach) then you pick p the third down with his magic. I think you use what you are best at to get a comfortable lead then try to run as much as possible to control the clock. Nothing is worse when you are trying to put a team away than an incomplete pass that loses a down AND stops the clock. Of course there is no such thing as a "comfortable lead" in the NFL, but I still say you do what you do best 60-70% and THEN shift to the run if you get ahead.

fixed that obvious error

rcsodak
09-24-2010, 01:15 PM
problem with that is the texans are the #1 rushing offense...we are the 27th

little harder to controll the clock averging 2.4 yards per carry then it is at 4.8ypc
well how much of that was because of their 1st opponent? Think they'd still be #1 had they started vs pitt?
Indy was worried about the pass attack and Houston surprised them with the run. Highly doubt they stay #1.
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Northman
09-24-2010, 01:17 PM
problem with that is the texans are the #1 rushing offense...we are the 27th

little harder to controll the clock averging 2.4 yards per carry then it is at 4.8ypc

True, however it doesnt really mean you should give up on it. If Denver comes out pass, pass, pass than Mathis and Freeney will have a field day.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2010, 01:27 PM
I think we do a lot of screen passes to slow down the rush and keep their LBs at home. Expect the bubble screens, and expect to see more of the RBs out of the backfield catching the ball. I think we'll want to keep their studs rushing the ball a bit hesitant early on so that we can try to keep them off Orton's ass.

I don't think the Colt's run defense is NEARLY as bad as some on here are making them out to be. The Giants have a strong running game, and although they didn't come out running the ball, they weren't running on the Colts defense with "ease." We do NOT have a strong running game, in the least. I think our running game can be defined as lackluster, at best. So I think we'll hear the commentators use the cliche'... "Using the short passes as our run game" this week. I would love to come out and establish a strong run game, but its just not going to happen.

The problem with the game plans of simply trying to be balanced and run the ball, is that Manning is going to score, and score fast. Then we'll have to pass more to keep up, and thats when we fall in to the Colt trap. Almost every team TRIES to keep Manning off the field (except when coaches decide to give him the ball after the coin toss). But there is a reason that the Colts win double-digit (plus) every season. Because teams can't simply keep him off the field, and when he's there, he scores.

I think we will have to rely on turnovers. We'll have to get lucky, somewhere, to get more than one turnover to win this game. Hopefully their RBs fumble the ball, or their kick return team fumbles the ball. Thats the ONLY way we will keep the ball out of Manning's hands. We just do NOT match up with the Colts in any aspect of the game.

Bosco
09-24-2010, 03:30 PM
Ok, but I'm talking for the entire season. Which kind of offense is 'preferred?
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Depends on your coach and his philosophy, although your question is kinda flawed as every coach wants a "balanced" offense.

arapaho2
09-24-2010, 04:40 PM
True, however it doesnt really mean you should give up on it. If Denver comes out pass, pass, pass than Mathis and Freeney will have a field day.


my point wasnt that we shouldnt run, but that our run game sucks and it wont be easy to just manage the clock by running if we average 2.4 yards per carry as opposed to when the texans did it with thier 4.8 ypc

so if we are lucky enough to get a lead...we cant be content to try to rush the ball to run out the clock if we are turning the ball over after three snaps...manning can put up points in a hurry and even a 17 point lead isnt safe when you give the ball back quickly

max protect the edge with some inside draws may be something to think about with alot of screens thrown in to slow the rush

Ravage!!!
09-24-2010, 04:44 PM
my point wasnt that we shouldnt run, but that our run game sucks and it wont be easy to just manage the clock by running if we average 2.4 yards per carry as opposed to when the texans did it with thier 4.8 ypc

so if we are lucky enough to get a lead...we cant be content to try to rush the ball to run out the clock if we are turning the ball over after three snaps...manning can put up points in a hurry and even a 17 point lead isnt safe when you give the ball back quickly

max protect the edge with some inside draws may be something to think about with alot of screens thrown in to slow the rush

The Giants tried to pass with the Colts instead of using their GOOD running game, and we saw how that turned out.

As of right now, without getting a couple turnovers that keeps the ball out of Manning's hands and takes time off the clock so that Manning doesn't score on two additional possessions, I don't see a way in Hades we win this game.

arapaho2
09-24-2010, 05:00 PM
The Giants tried to pass with the Colts instead of using their GOOD running game, and we saw how that turned out.

As of right now, without getting a couple turnovers that keeps the ball out of Manning's hands and takes time off the clock so that Manning doesn't score on two additional possessions, I don't see a way in Hades we win this game.


exactly...we are all wondering how to protect orton against freeney and mathis...when the real issue is how to stop peyton...with our defnse playing as sloppy as they are...its gonna be a long game:mad:

Bosco
09-24-2010, 08:35 PM
my point wasnt that we shouldnt run, but that our run game sucks and it wont be easy to just manage the clock by running if we average 2.4 yards per carry as opposed to when the texans did it with thier 4.8 ypc

so if we are lucky enough to get a lead...we cant be content to try to rush the ball to run out the clock if we are turning the ball over after three snaps...manning can put up points in a hurry and even a 17 point lead isnt safe when you give the ball back quickly The difference is that Seattle has a very large and powerful front 7 built to stop the run, which they are currently 5th best in the NFL at doing. Indy on the other hand, has much smaller but faster front 7 built around stopping the deep pass and is statistically the worst run defense in the NFL.


max protect the edge with some inside draws may be something to think about with alot of screens thrown in to slow the rush I agree. A middle screen or two might be a good way to slow down the rush off the edge as well.

rcsodak
09-25-2010, 01:51 PM
Depends on your coach and his philosophy, although your question is kinda flawed as every coach wants a "balanced" offense.

Not so, Bosco.

Have you ever heard McD saying he wanted the offense to be 50/50? Pitt? Jax? NYJ? CAR?

Look at Indy. They might SAY they want to start running the ball more, but when was the last time they were 50/50? It's manning/manning/rb after how many years? And yet, they've won 12 games for how many years in a row now?

McD came in saying we wouldn't necessarily see the same offense week in/out. He was going to build it so they could primarily attack the D's weaknesses. I'd like to see that, myself...but it's gonna take time.

On the other hand, being balanced mean if the D takes away one aspect, you can counter with the other (hopefully).

BOTH would require the ability to do both sides, but it would seem, to me, the balanced isn't quite as detailed.

I Eat Staples
09-25-2010, 09:00 PM
Depends on your coach and his philosophy, although your question is kinda flawed as every coach wants a "balanced" offense.

The Steelers, Jets, and Ravens aren't shy about saying they want to pound it down their opponent's throats.

horsepig
09-26-2010, 01:04 AM
I think we do a lot of screen passes to slow down the rush and keep their LBs at home. Expect the bubble screens, and expect to see more of the RBs out of the backfield catching the ball. I think we'll want to keep their studs rushing the ball a bit hesitant early on so that we can try to keep them off Orton's ass.

I don't think the Colt's run defense is NEARLY as bad as some on here are making them out to be. The Giants have a strong running game, and although they didn't come out running the ball, they weren't running on the Colts defense with "ease." We do NOT have a strong running game, in the least. I think our running game can be defined as lackluster, at best. So I think we'll hear the commentators use the cliche'... "Using the short passes as our run game" this week. I would love to come out and establish a strong run game, but its just not going to happen.

The problem with the game plans of simply trying to be balanced and run the ball, is that Manning is going to score, and score fast. Then we'll have to pass more to keep up, and thats when we fall in to the Colt trap. Almost every team TRIES to keep Manning off the field (except when coaches decide to give him the ball after the coin toss). But there is a reason that the Colts win double-digit (plus) every season. Because teams can't simply keep him off the field, and when he's there, he scores.

I think we will have to rely on turnovers. We'll have to get lucky, somewhere, to get more than one turnover to win this game. Hopefully their RBs fumble the ball, or their kick return team fumbles the ball. Thats the ONLY way we will keep the ball out of Manning's hands. We just do NOT match up with the Colts in any aspect of the game.

Man alive! Wouldn't it be nice to have at least a semblamce of a pass rush.

Or at least a half/assed running game.

This game will probably boil down to Orton vs Manning.