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sneakers
09-20-2010, 12:14 AM
Rushing Attempts: 38
Rushing Yards: 68

A few years ago we would have been skinning Shany alive for this type of performance, is it now acceptable?

silkamilkamonico
09-20-2010, 12:23 AM
A few years ago we would have been skinning Shany alive for this type of performance, is it now acceptable?

Yes, because we won.

The difference between Shanny's offense and McDaniels offense, is if Shanny's run game averages 1.7ypc, our passing game is something like 11-28, 121 yds and an int.

BroncoWave
09-20-2010, 12:26 AM
Stanley Daniels, Russ Hochstein, Zane Beadles, JD Walton, and a still not 100% Ryan Clady. I'll give the running game a pass until we are healthy on the o-line. Moreno ran well today and did as well as he could given the circumstances. Plus, the passing game was good enough today to make up for it.

DenBronx
09-20-2010, 12:26 AM
To be fair Buckhalter pulled that stat down a bit and Moreno was used alot in the passing game with 4 attempts for 67 yards and a long of 45. Though it may not have been a run it was a quick pass to change things up a bit.

The lanes just wasn't there today against Seattles beefy front 4 but our offense burned them through the air anyway.

DenBronx
09-20-2010, 12:27 AM
Oh, and don't forget about the TWO redzone rushing touchdowns. :listen:

silkamilkamonico
09-20-2010, 12:27 AM
Clady got completely manhandled today.

He is either far from healthy, or regressing as a player.

WARHORSE
09-20-2010, 12:34 AM
I was not happy in what I saw today out of Knowshon.


Im not blaming it all on the line.


Sorry.

DenBronx
09-20-2010, 12:40 AM
Ok...we we're like 70% in 3rd down conversion guys! Knowshon should get some credit for that.

Freakin don't always over analyze everything. Knowshon was put in ALOT of situations where he only needed short yardage to help keep the plays alive!


Who cares if your impressed with him or not? He got the job done and helped keep the plays alive. Josh called alot of plays that pulled his stats down just to benifit the team.

He had over 100 all purpose yards and a redzone TD. Talk about ball busters.

j3phr3y
09-20-2010, 12:46 AM
I was not happy in what I saw today out of Knowshon.


Im not blaming it all on the line.


Sorry.

Two games, 182 yards 2 TDs, I fumble (not lost). On pace for 1456 total yards and 16 TDs. Looks good to me for a spread offense RB.

silkamilkamonico
09-20-2010, 12:48 AM
I think Knowshon Moreno will make a good Kevin Faulk role in this offense.

DenBronx
09-20-2010, 12:48 AM
Two games, 182 yards 2 TDs, I fumble (not lost). On pace for 1456 total yards and 16 TDs. Looks good to me for a spread offense RB.



/thread.

atwater27
09-20-2010, 12:50 AM
Knowshawn is doing just fine this year. One thing I have noticed abou this season.. some of the D's are selling out completely to stop the run. That's when the good hands and route running comes in handy for the backs.

jhildebrand
09-20-2010, 12:51 AM
Rushing Attempts: 38
Rushing Yards: 68

A few years ago we would have been skinning Shany alive for this type of performance, is it now acceptable?

Shanahan was given a fair amount of time to get his house in order. Josh is doing the same. We have, IMO, the makings of a solid O line full of youth that could be among the best for years to come. Run blocking is a mentality and it takes time.

As critical of McDaniels as I have been, I have no issues with the O line and the direction they are headed in. Not to mention, McD doesn't subscribe to the philosophy of using the run to open up the pass. This is a pass first league and McD is on board with that.

The only thing I would fault McD for in the run game is the failure to hurry up at home. You can really gas a team. Did you see how Indy kept NY from subbing tonight? I sure hope that is something we do against the Colts next week. They are small and fast but we can use that against them.



I was not happy in what I saw today out of Knowshon.


Im not blaming it all on the line.


Sorry.

I was beyond critical of Moreno and the selection of him last year.

He looks pretty good thus far to me. He was given 24 carries today-his first 20+ carry game in the NFL. The yards will come. He made some runs out of nothing today. He also looks faster. I'm not worried about Moreno at all outside of injuries.

sneakers
09-20-2010, 12:52 AM
I think Knowshon Moreno will make a good Kevin Faulk role in this offense.

Kevin Faulk is a homosexual

PAINTERDAVE
09-20-2010, 01:14 AM
I agree that the young o-line is going to be great in the future...
and we need to have patience as they cut their chops.

Seattle shut down Gore running for SF last week...
is it a wonder that Knowshon did not have big numbers against them either?

Like it or not... we have a sophmore head coach...
a lot of rookies...
some great vets working alongside them all...

this has all the makings of a CLASSIC rebuilding year.

If this team struggles in the next 5 weeks against the GREAT teams we are scheduled to play...

it could easily become ABSOLUTLTY a rebuilding year.

I love my team... I am on the wagon...
I always have been on the wagon...
This wagon aint heading to disneyland, though.

Only two wagons of all the wagons are heading there.

Patience is a virtue.

How about Moreno's great toss back to Orton and the pass to Royal?

I like Moreno. I think he is gonna be a strong part of this team for a while.
Probably right into the first years of the Tebow era...
when we are done REBUILDING.

silkamilkamonico
09-20-2010, 01:57 AM
Kevin Faulk is a homosexual

So was Mike Shanahan's passing game when the run game was averaging 1.7 ypc.

atwater27
09-20-2010, 02:07 AM
I don't think that is a subject a man with your avy should be talking about.

silkamilkamonico
09-20-2010, 02:13 AM
I don't think that is a subject a man with your avy should be talking about.

Quit trolling the thread puppet! This thread is about Shanahan's vaunted runningless offense against McDaniels suddenly explosive passing game in a runningless offense. But I would not expect "that is a subject with a man with your avy would be talking about"!

atwater27
09-20-2010, 02:20 AM
Matt Daaaamon!

TimTebow15MVP
09-20-2010, 04:17 AM
it doesnt matter when you have the passing attack that the broncos have, as the youngins on the OL get more comfortable and clady gets in full swing and we get kuper back this OL will be fine. With thomas now in the line up if you put him on one side and lloyd on one side and royal in the slot your gonna have to keep those safeties way back because no corner is guarding our wideout one on one. the passing game will open up the run game instead of vice versa like it was under shanny.

Moreno had 113 all purpose yards today anyway and a touchdown,

Elevation inc
09-20-2010, 05:15 AM
its not acceptable but consider this......

Rookie RT, who played most of preseason at LG, undrafted LG who didnt get good time till 3rd week of preseason. LT coming off severe knee injury, Starting RG out with injury, starting RT out with injury......you look at this and its not to hard to figure out the common dominator here.

Combine that with knowshon missing all pre-season, and buckhalter hitting the age wall....well its clear there are big reasons why this is happening....and its funny you mention shanny whos redskins had a 27-10 lead at one point and couldnt run the clock out either......

Dirk
09-20-2010, 05:33 AM
its not acceptable but consider this......

Rookie RT, who played most of preseason at LG, undrafted LG who didnt get good time till 3rd week of preseason. LT coming off severe knee injury, Starting RG out with injury, starting RT out with injury......you look at this and its not to hard to figure out the common dominator here.

Combine that with knowshon missing all pre-season, and buckhalter hitting the age wall....well its clear there are big reasons why this is happening....and its funny you mention shanny whos redskins had a 27-10 lead at one point and couldnt run the clock out either......


All good points. :salute:

I think our young OL did better than fair against that massive meat line of Seattle's. They will get better.

Dean
09-20-2010, 06:19 AM
Ok...we we're like 70% in 3rd down conversion guys! Knowshon should get some credit for that.

Freakin don't always over analyze everything. Knowshon was put in ALOT of situations where he only needed short yardage to help keep the plays alive!


Who cares if your impressed with him or not? He got the job done and helped keep the plays alive. Josh called alot of plays that pulled his stats down just to benifit the team.

He had over 100 all purpose yards and a redzone TD. Talk about ball busters.

Moreno came out on almost all third downs. For that game, Buckhalter was the third down back.

Elevation inc
09-20-2010, 07:57 AM
Moreno came out on almost all third downs. For that game, Buckhalter was the third down back.

and he wasnt very good at it......run game def needs work on all phases....

Slick
09-20-2010, 08:05 AM
I was not happy in what I saw today out of Knowshon.


Im not blaming it all on the line.


Sorry.

I don't know War. How about that drive in the third quarter, the one where Knowshon turned that screen pass that was destined to go nowhere into a big gain, and later selling it out for the touchdown?

...granted he didn't have a very nice ypc but there's no doubt he left it all on the field.

How can you find fault with that kind of effort?

broncofaninfla
09-20-2010, 08:10 AM
I'd say we are 2-3 OL and 1-2 RB's away from having an effective running game. We need more depth at OL and more talent at RB. I'm hoping the kids on the OL get better with each game but time will tell.

Elevation inc
09-20-2010, 08:13 AM
I'd say we are 2-3 OL and 1-2 RB's away from having an effective running game. We need more depth at OL and more talent at RB. I'm hoping the kids on the OL get better with each game but time will tell.

i think health is a big deal for us period, but i think we are a also 2 OL players and a RB away from being very good...although to be fair moreno is on pace for over 1500 all purpose yds.....thats pretty damn nice....even with our shaky OL.....

Northman
09-20-2010, 08:18 AM
At the moment, the running game will only be a problem if the passing game fails to achieve what it did yesterday. As the season wears on and the weather gets worse the running game will need to improve dramatically. But, we were FAR better on 3rd down and as pointed out we were FAR better in the redzone. I mean, lets be honest here we didnt have to settle for FG's all the time yesterday and for that i was MUCH happy about it.

MileHighCrew
09-20-2010, 08:21 AM
Bucky's poor showing opened it up for the M&M show next week

Lonestar
09-20-2010, 09:40 AM
its not acceptable but consider this......

Rookie RT, who played most of preseason at LG, undrafted LG who didnt get good time till 3rd week of preseason. LT coming off severe knee injury, Starting RG out with injury, starting RT out with injury......you look at this and its not to hard to figure out the common dominator here.

Combine that with knowshon missing all pre-season, and buckhalter hitting the age wall....well its clear there are big reasons why this is happening....and its funny you mention shanny whos redskins had a 27-10 lead at one point and couldnt run the clock out either......

Good post but YOU failed to mention ROOKIE Center at the most difficult "mental" spot for a rookie to play. With calling blocking assignments on an OL that only has one returning starter from last year in place.

It is going to take awhile for it to become cohesive.

Now it may never gel but one thing is certain we are a beefier unit than last years unit.
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DenBronx
09-20-2010, 10:35 AM
Moreno came out on almost all third downs. For that game, Buckhalter was the third down back.

I have DVR'd the game. I did see alot of 3rd down Moreno plays. I'll try and rewatch today and count them up.

BORDERLINE
09-20-2010, 10:35 AM
no it isn't....moreno should keep getting better , but to me he needs to make more people miss once he hits the second level...if he can get good at doing that those numbers will go way up

Thnikkaman
09-20-2010, 10:42 AM
I don't think Moreno is the problem. Moreno had 140+ total yards and a TD. Yes I would like to see him be more effective coming out of the backfield, but he is turning out to be more like a Reggie Bush type of back. Now Buckhaulter, he needs to go. I don't think he will be seeing much more playing time this year as we have Maroney now, and I suspect we will start to see Ball get some carries as the season go on.

Lonestar
09-20-2010, 10:44 AM
At the moment, the running game will only be a problem if the passing game fails to achieve what it did yesterday. As the season wears on and the weather gets worse the running game will need to improve dramatically. But, we were FAR better on 3rd down and as pointed out we were FAR better in the redzone. I mean, lets be honest here we didnt have to settle for FG's all the time yesterday and for that i was MUCH happy about it.

Sounds like your climbing on the wagon train.

Solid post.

There is no doubt we have along way to go but that tunnel appears to have gotten shorter and the light in it is brighter.
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slim
09-20-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't think Moreno is the problem. Moreno had 140+ total yards and a TD. Yes I would like to see him be more effective coming out of the backfield, but he is turning out to be more like a Reggie Bush type of back. Now Buckhaulter, he needs to go. I don't think he will be seeing much more playing time this year as we have Maroney now, and I suspect we will start to see Ball get some carries as the season go on.

Tinker loves him some Ball.

shank
09-20-2010, 01:20 PM
buckhalter was a black hole of YPC yesterday. i'm now really glad we got maroney.

DenBronx
09-20-2010, 01:27 PM
After rewatching the game (I did miss he first series) I noticed Buckhalter was only in on 3 3rd and short scenarios. The first was his goal line touchdown which JD shoved his defender in orbit. He did so good Bucky let him spike it for him.

The last was Bucky trying to run out the clock late in the 4th.


Moreno was actually targeted more on 3rd downs due to his pass catching ability. And Moreno would have been in the for 3rd downs IF he wasn't sucking for air so much. He constantly needed oxygen.

Most of the 3rd and short plays, almost ALL of them were passing plays...one being the bomb to Thomas for a 21 yard TD.

This keeps defenses honest and it's very hard to tell what we will do.

Lonestar
09-20-2010, 01:35 PM
After rewatching the game (I did miss he first series) I noticed Buckhalter was only in on 3 3rd and short scenarios. The first was his goal line touchdown which JD shoved his defender in orbit. He did so good Bucky let him spike it for him.

The last was Bucky trying to run out the clock late in the 4th.


Moreno was actually targeted more on 3rd downs due to his pass catching ability. And Moreno would have been in the for 3rd downs IF he wasn't sucking for air so much. He constantly needed oxygen.

Most of the 3rd and short plays, almost ALL of them were passing plays...one being the bomb to Thomas for a 21 yard TD.

This keeps defenses honest and it's very hard to tell what we will do.

Thanks for taking time to report back to us.

It sounds like Bucky is not a total lost cause like some thought.

It is still nice to have Maroney coming up soon and White coming back next year.

We should have a good stable of RBs to play with then.

I like hoow Josh is quietly stacking the offense with TEAM players that also seem to have talent.
Next draft/FA period DL and MLB please with a dose of safety in there. Would love to find a stud safety like we have had in the past the most recent being atwater, Lynch. To put the fear of God in WR that venture over the middle.
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DenBronx
09-20-2010, 01:55 PM
Thanks for taking time to report back to us.

It sounds like Bucky is not a total lost cause like some thought.

It is still nice to have Maroney coming up soon and White coming back next year.

We should have a good stable of RBs to play with then.

I like hoow Josh is quietly stacking the offense with TEAM players that also seem to have talent.
Next draft/FA period DL and MLB please with a dose of safety in there. Would love to find a stud safety like we have had in the past the most recent being atwater, Lynch. To put the fear of God in WR that venture over the middle.
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Next year we're going to have to go defense early in the draft. I would like to see a real nasty Romonowski type LB at some point.

Bucky I don't think is a loss at all. I just think we had to take what we were given yesterday. Seattle really did add some huge DL to their roster this year. With the addition of Maroney, Moreno and Bucky we should see this YPC average shot up...at least I pray we do.

Lonestar
09-20-2010, 02:05 PM
Next year we're going to have to go defense early in the draft. I would like to see a real nasty Romonowski type LB at some point.

Bucky I don't think is a loss at all. I just think we had to take what we were given yesterday. Seattle really did add some huge DL to their roster this year. With the addition of Maroney, Moreno and Bucky we should see this YPC average shot up...at least I pray we do.

Yep I think we have to look strong on day TWO and early day 3 for DL,LB and Saftey help.

If there is a solid NT or DE available on day one I can live with that but then Josh will probably have 3-4 picks now on day one and two.

Hell you need a Cray computer to keep up with his moving around on draft day.

I Eat Staples
09-20-2010, 02:45 PM
Buck played well in short yardage, and if he can be a consistent short yardage back for us I'll take it. Moreno is horrible in short yardage.

Moreno is a good receiving back, and he does a few things well, but he has a lot of limitations. The worst of all being his lack of speed. Speed is the most important quality in a HB. Speed by itself doesn't make a good HB, but for a HB to be elite the speed has to be there first, and then comes the rest of the package. Moreno just isn't fast enough or strong enough to be anything more than an average back, in my opinion.

BigDaddyBronco
09-20-2010, 02:48 PM
Buck played well in short yardage, and if he can be a consistent short yardage back for us I'll take it. Moreno is horrible in short yardage.

Moreno is a good receiving back, and he does a few things well, but he has a lot of limitations. The worst of all being his lack of speed. Speed is the most important quality in a HB. Speed by itself doesn't make a good HB, but for a HB to be elite the speed has to be there first, and then comes the rest of the package. Moreno just isn't fast enough or strong enough to be anything more than an average back, in my opinion.
That and vision, elusiveness, etc.

He is a power back in a 210 lb body.

I like the guy and will root for him, but I'm hating that they took him with the #12 pick.

TimTebow15MVP
09-21-2010, 03:13 AM
Buck played well in short yardage, and if he can be a consistent short yardage back for us I'll take it. Moreno is horrible in short yardage.

Moreno is a good receiving back, and he does a few things well, but he has a lot of limitations. The worst of all being his lack of speed. Speed is the most important quality in a HB. Speed by itself doesn't make a good HB, but for a HB to be elite the speed has to be there first, and then comes the rest of the package. Moreno just isn't fast enough or strong enough to be anything more than an average back, in my opinion.

Speed is the first thing you need as a RB? Boy NEVER will that ever be true. seriously where did you learn that???

moreno is just as fast as frank gore. whose one of the best backs in the game....moreno is simply not healthy yet but the burst is getting better and better every game.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-21-2010, 08:33 PM
From what I've seen from the Jags and Shehawks games, is that our O-line looks, well, new. I haven't seen almost any pulls and traps like you normally see in a man/power scheme nor are our O-linemen getting to the second level (guards especially) and putting a hat on the LBs. The 5 O-linemen are blocking straight ahead and doing an okay job of standing up the front 4 of the defense, they just aren't moving like they should or getting a lot of push.

Opposing defenses' LBs are pretty much getting to go unmolested to the gaps and make the tackle or get a shot in before our RBs can really get going. I credit Knowshon for not losing a lot of yards thus far because there really aren't many holes to run through. If he gets into the secondary, it's because he's already broken a tackle or made someone miss.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-21-2010, 08:40 PM
Buck played well in short yardage, and if he can be a consistent short yardage back for us I'll take it. Moreno is horrible in short yardage.

Moreno is a good receiving back, and he does a few things well, but he has a lot of limitations. The worst of all being his lack of speed. Speed is the most important quality in a HB. Speed by itself doesn't make a good HB, but for a HB to be elite the speed has to be there first, and then comes the rest of the package. Moreno just isn't fast enough or strong enough to be anything more than an average back, in my opinion.

I've got to disagree on this one. Speed is great if you've got elite speed like Chris Johnson, but the vast majority of "elite" NFL running backs throughout history didn't have that "elite" speed. Emmit Smith, Walter Peyton, Terrell Davis, and Marcus Allen come to mind immediately as RBs who were extremely successful and weren't "burners". Those guys relied on vision, toughness, and just a little bit of wiggle to be successful.

Knowshon played against the best defenses the SEC had to offer and I almost never saw him get run down from behind. His offensive line wasn't exactly spectacular at Georgia, either. I think he has all the skills necessary to be very successful in the NFL. He needs time and so does the O-line to get it figured out.