Zane Beadles struggling

[broncofaninfla]

Re-Focused: Week 1, Broncos at Jaguars (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/09/15/re-focused-week-1-denver-at-jacksonville/)

September 15th, 2010 | Author: Chris Benson (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/author/roxonlyfan/)
http://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/refocusedjags-150x150.jpgThe youth on the offensive line for both the Broncos and Jaguars was on full display in the Jags’ win.
While much of the focus was on LT Ryan Clady‘s return, it was the inconsistent play of his mates that probably proved to be the difference.
Jacksonville’s line also struggled, but Maurice Jones-Drew racked up 62 yards after contact and helped sustain the Jaguars’ drives and build confidence just enough to claim the 24-17 victory.

–
BRONCOS
The primary cause for poor offensive line play was rookie RT Zane Beadles (-10.4). Protecting on 39 pass plays, Beadles allowed his quarterback to be pressured, hit, or sacked ten times. He allowed pressure at a rate of 26 percent, giving him a very poor (-6.7) pass-block rating. He played all the snaps at right tackle; backup tackle D’Anthony Baptiste played 14 snaps spotting the returning Clady, and while he’s no great shakes you have to wonder how long Beadles’ leash will be before Baptiste gets a shot.
As third-year receiver Eddie Royal (+2.0) figures to be best utilized out of the slot, Brandon Lloyd (+3.4) earned a start at WR across from Jabar Gaffney. Lloyd saw considerable playing time (44 of 65 snaps) and came away with a reception on 5 of his 7 targets. Lloyd showed his penchant for unbelievable catches late in the fourth quarter, as he turned to his back shoulder in the end zone and fully extended for the ball with one hand and would have tied the game for the Broncos, had he been able to get his right foot down.
The most important need for the Denver defense coming into the season was finding somebody to step up and generate a pass rush in Elvis Dumervil‘s absence. OLB Robert Ayers (+3.5) looked like he may help fill the void. Rushing on only 17 snaps, Ayers recorded 4 total pressures, good for a +3.1 pass-rush rating. Ayers did a solid job defending the run in addition to rushing the passer, with 3 of his 4 tackles for stops. Ayers’ sack was the result of a beautiful spin move on OL Kevin Haslem.
–
JAGUARS

RCB Derek Cox (-5.6) was our second-worst qualifying CB last year. The trend continued in Week 1, as Kyle Orton was able to consistently find, first-down yardage either over the short-intermediate middle of the field or along the left sideline into Cox’s coverage. Orton’s success ultimately led to Cox being benched. He allowed 8 receptions on 9 targets for 140 yards, negating the usual solid play from LCB Rashean Mathis (+3.6). Royal victimized Cox on a curl route in which he stutter-stepped, shook the defender and ran to a 23-yard gain.
RDE Aaron Kampman (+4.6) created pressure so consistently (9 total pressures on 35 rushes) that Orton often had no time but to dump the ball off to a HB or TE for short yardage. Kampman set the tone for the Jaguars’ defense on the first series of the game on a third-and-11 play at the Jacksonville 28. Rookie DRT Tyson Alualu ate Clady up at the line, freeing Kampman up to come around and penetrate through the middle for an 8-yard loss that forced the Broncos into a punting situation.
Second-year WR Mike Thomas (+1.6) could be poised to break out. QB David Garrard will need another target across from Mike Sims-Walker, and Thomas appears to be the man for the job. Thomas was capable as a blocker despite his small size and was Garrard’s most reliable receiver on the day with 6 catches in his 7 targets (+1.6 overall).
–
ROOKIE REPORT
Besides Beadles’ struggles, rookie center J.D. Walton (-5.4) also predictably had a rough time adjusting to the NFL and the Jaguars’ DL, allowing 2 pressures inside (including the sack from Kampman on the first series that cost the Broncos points). Reserve Broncos CB Perrish Cox was run-of-the-mill in his first game fielding kicks in the NFL, returning three kickoffs for 62 yards and one punt for 4 yards while fair catching another. Cox also appeared on the defense in some packages, and wasn’t thrown on.
On the Jaguars’ side, DT Tyson Alualu (+0.6) impressed visually in his NFL debut but has much to learn. He admirably took up blockers on passing downs to allow the Jacksonville DEs to generate pressure. On the flip side, he sometimes struggled to shed blocks when the ball was being run straight at him. Alualu disengaged from Broncos LG Stanley Daniels on a wildcat run from fellow rookie Tim Tebow to stop the oft-discussed but barely used QB (three uneventful snaps). Fifth-round pick Larry Hart got pressure on 3 of his 13 rushes (+2.0 pass rush).
–
RANDOM NOTES
Thomas was targeted 33 percent of the time he ran a pass route (7 of 21), but Sims-Walker was targeted only twice on his 24 pass plays in which he ran a route. Broncos OLB Jason Hunter, who started the game for the Broncos but was substituted for often throughout, pressured Garrard 3 times on only five pass-play snaps.

Related posts:
Good news/bad news: Denver Broncos (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/27/good-newsbad-news-denver-broncos/)
Good News/Bad News: Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/29/good-newsbad-news-jacksonville-jaguars/)
Khaled Elsayed on the Jaguars (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/09/03/khaled-elsayed-on-the-jaguars/)
Re-Focused: Week 1, Falcons at Steelers (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/09/13/re-focused-week-1-atlanta-at-pittsburgh/)
Re-Focused: Week 1, Colts at Texans (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/09/13/re-focused-week-1-indianapolis-houston/)

[topscribe]

One can use the excuse that Beadles is just a rookie, but I'm not sure he has
the feet to be a good tackle. Guard is his future, and he may be a good one
there. But not at tackle, IMO.

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

Maybe it's because we have had so many injuries, but I'm not too pleased with how the coaching staff has shuffled Beadles around the oline. The guy is a rookie trying to get acclimated to the speed of the game, and they got him playing LT, RT, G. Figure it out already. Let the guy get settled in someplace before you completely kill his confidence.

[GEM]

How does anyone really expect him to play when he's been shuffled around so much. His natural position is guard. The difference between guard and tackle are completely different, top it off with having to get used to the speed of the game and it's not good. Hopefully he is able to get back over to guard soon and we'll see good things from him.

This one is definitely on the coaches. You should have some depth on the Oline and shouldn't be in the position to have to move a rookie around to different places on the line.

[rationalfan]

How does anyone really expect him to play when he's been shuffled around so much. His natural position is guard. The difference between guard and tackle are completely different, top it off with having to get used to the speed of the game and it's not good. Hopefully he is able to get back over to guard soon and we'll see good things from him.

This one is definitely on the coaches. You should have some depth on the Oline and shouldn't be in the position to have to move a rookie around to different places on the line.

uh, didn't beadles play tackle for multiple season in college? regardless of whether it's his natural position or not, he should be able to understand the differences between guard and tackle, given his experience.

[Tned]

Maybe it's because we have had so many injuries, but I'm not too pleased with how the coaching staff has shuffled Beadles around the oline. The guy is a rookie trying to get acclimated to the speed of the game, and they got him playing LT, RT, G. Figure it out already. Let the guy get settled in someplace before you completely kill his confidence.

He got beat out at LG, so they are attempting to use him at RT due to Harris' injury and the belief that he is flexible.

[T.K.O.]

what is the word on harris ? that's the big question here....we need to have harris and clady in the game.(period):salute:

[Tned]

How does anyone really expect him to play when he's been shuffled around so much. His natural position is guard. The difference between guard and tackle are completely different, top it off with having to get used to the speed of the game and it's not good. Hopefully he is able to get back over to guard soon and we'll see good things from him.

This one is definitely on the coaches. You should have some depth on the Oline and shouldn't be in the position to have to move a rookie around to different places on the line.

Actually, I believe he was a starting tackle in college, not a guard.

[BroncoNut]

whew. when I read the title I was thinking some type of financial crisis or a drug addiction.

[Lonestar]

Let's see polumbus or beadles.

I'll take the rookie for now while he takes his lumps learning speed of the game.

Will he ultimately he an OT to replace Harris? Like believe was the intial plan maybe not but he should be heads above hamilton. On just size alone.

I believe it is a tribute to his skill that they have tried him at the mulitple spots. Thinking him the best option over the other guys.

Eventually the OL will be pretty good all around. But it will be awhile, as it takes time to develop trust and timing.
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[SOCALORADO.]

It was his first ever NFL game.
Could we give him just a little break considering, and wait until week 4-5?
And i agree, stop moving him around. Hes a rookie and hes not that flexible
at every position at top NFL levels just yet.
Not every O-linemen is going to come in a rookie and be Clady right away.
Jeez!

[MileHighCrew]

He is a rookie that played 1 games and was moved around like an orphan in the preseason, give the kid a chance to get his feet wet. I understand the instant gratification Nintendo society but this is about a year too early.

[silkamilkamonico]

He is a rookie that played 1 games and was moved around like an orphan in the preseason, give the kid a chance to get his feet wet. I understand the instant gratification Nintendo society but this is about a year too early.

Agreed. If he got beat out at LG, and then they are trying him at RT, the sooner we can get Harris back and get Beadles off the starting lineup, the better. It's just not your time right now kid.

[underrated29]

Lets not forget who he was going against either. Aaron Kampmen who has made probowlers look like fools. It is not as if beadles was squaring off against jarvis moss, or john engleberger ok.

This is aaron kampmen, while old, he is now healthy and is a top skill rusher.

[broncophan]

lol.....the guy has played 1 nfl game.....

nothing new.......there are exceptions.....but most first year players are going to struggle.....and to critique his play one game into the season makes no sense....imo...

[D1g1tal j1m]

He had adequate size to play tackle in college but in the NFL he is best suited to play guard and that is why he was drafted by the Broncos. Beadles doesn't have the fluidity and footwork to play the tackle position. Hopefully Harris can get back and Beadles can be shifted back to his guard position where he can maul interior DL as opposed to shifting and maneuvering around passrushers.

[GEM]

uh, didn't beadles play tackle for multiple season in college? regardless of whether it's his natural position or not, he should be able to understand the differences between guard and tackle, given his experience.

I would agree with you if he were already acclimated to the speed of the game at guard. Lineman should be interchangeable, but as a rookie, you should be just getting up with the speed of the game at the position you were picked for. I think it is asking too much for a rookie who was picked for the guard position, who practiced all training camp at the guard position to come in and play RT and play it well.

[BroncoNut]

I don't know enough about the differences between the positions, I assume tackle is a faster/quicker position?

[GEM]

I don't know enough about the differences between the positions, I assume tackle is a faster/quicker position?

They have to be in order to catch the rushers coming off the end. Guards usually clog up the middle and create holes for the RB or a LB coming up the middle. They have a bit more time to see the LBer coming.

[BroncoNut]

They have to be in order to catch the rushers coming off the end. Guards usually clog up the middle and create holes for the RB or a LB coming up the middle. They have a bit more time to see the LBer coming.

that's what I thought, more mobile should be the tackles.

[Lonestar]

I believe it is ok to critique him but not burn him at the stake. First game in the NFL anyone that thought him and walton would be instant probowlers. Well enough said.
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[Lonestar]

let me just add they are instant upgrades over what we had last year. in hamilton, hockstien and weigman.

is there any doubt in any ones mind about that?

How good will they be time will tell but so far I like what I have seen. decent numbers in game one.

[Tned]

let me just add they are instant upgrades over what we had last year. in hamilton, hockstien and weigman.

is there any doubt in any ones mind about that?

How good will they be time will tell but so far I like what I have seen. decent numbers in game one.

I haven't seen enough to know if they are currently upgrades to those three players. That doesn't mean I don't think they will be upgrades long term and hopefully early this season. We have to remember that Beadles was basically handed the starting LG job and lost it to an undrafted guy that was cut and out of football for a year, and then spent the next two years on practice squads and where the Broncos are his third or fourth team.

Daniels could have just taken that long to blossom, or it could also be that Beadles actually performed that poorly. We just haven't seen or been told enough to know.

[Lonestar]

I haven't seen enough to know if they are currently upgrades to those three players. That doesn't mean I don't think they will be upgrades long term and hopefully early this season. We have to remember that Beadles was basically handed the starting LG job and lost it to an undrafted guy that was cut and out of football for a year, and then spent the next two years on practice squads and where the Broncos are his third or fourth team.

Daniels could have just taken that long to blossom, or it could also be that Beadles actually performed that poorly. We just haven't seen or been told enough to know.

I believe that both of them were huge upgrades over who we had, IF the other new kid beat him out all the better. I'd rather have another 15 pounds or so in the middle.

I further believe that few rookies are ready to start in the NFL OL's there are a few exceptions to the rule like Clady but as young as we are on the OLINE even rarer. IIRC Clady started after being a top 15 pick and had a veteran group around him so he did not need to help the guy next to him.

Now it is different Clady is not 100% probably will not be till next year. Harris is out and KUPER is also coming off of an injury although not as severe as Cladys .

That is it ONE player at this point that is more or less 100% with experience.

OLINES are very dependent on TEAM work and it is going to be awhile for it to work out IMHO.

[Tned]

I believe that both of them were huge upgrades over who we had, IF the other new kid beat him out all the better. I'd rather have another 15 pounds or so in the middle.

I further believe that few rookies are ready to start in the NFL OL's there are a few exceptions to the rule like Clady but as young as we are on the OLINE even rarer. IIRC Clady started after being a top 15 pick and had a veteran group around him so he did not need to help the guy next to him.

Now it is different Clady is not 100% probably will not be till next year. Harris is out and KUPER is also coming off of an injury although not as severe as Cladys .

That is it ONE player at this point that is more or less 100% with experience.

OLINES are very dependent on TEAM work and it is going to be awhile for it to work out IMHO.

I'm definately not going to assume that Daniels is crap, just because he's struggled to find a job up to this point. Sometimes players take time on a PS to develop into a starter or rotational player. I also agree that linemen typically take some time to develop, so in my mind, even if today he might not be an upgrade over Hochstein, or even Hamilton, if the coaches think that with some in-game seasoning he will become better, than I think it's worth the investment in the future to start him.

[Bosco]

Give em time.

[turftoad]

He looks like he gets out muscled and pushed around. He needs to get stronger.

[DenBronx]

How does anyone really expect him to play when he's been shuffled around so much. His natural position is guard. The difference between guard and tackle are completely different, top it off with having to get used to the speed of the game and it's not good. Hopefully he is able to get back over to guard soon and we'll see good things from him.

This one is definitely on the coaches. You should have some depth on the Oline and shouldn't be in the position to have to move a rookie around to different places on the line.

They need to keep this kid at his natural position, guard. His footwork is a little slow and guys like Clady and Harris make a world of difference when their both playing. Now teams are bum rushing Beadles because they know he's struggling and it causes an easy sack. He should do fine once he transitions back.

[honz]

Also, Aaron Kampman has made a lot of guys look bad.

[DenBronx]

Also, Aaron Kampman has made a lot of guys look bad.

This is true. Kampman looked like a wild man out there last Sunday.

Makes me miss Dume that much more.

[muse]

I think he played at LT in college unless I'm mistaken? Making the left-to-right switch isn't easy in any case! I think he needs to be plugged back in at guard for the moment, especially if that's where we're projecting him to play for the future.

[Tempus Fugit]

1.) The kid was predominantly a left tackle, not right tackle, in college.

2.) He was a rookie playing his first NFL game.

3.) He's really supposed to be a backup right now.

4.) He's been learning various spots on the line, due to injuries.

5.) He was playing against a crafty veteran.



He'll get better.

[Lonestar]

1.) The kid was predominantly a left tackle, not right tackle, in college.

2.) He was a rookie playing his first NFL game.

3.) He's really supposed to be a backup right now.

4.) He's been learning various spots on the line, due to injuries.

5.) He was playing against a crafty veteran.



He'll get better. :salute::salute:

after this one we can close the thread and move on to something else.

[Tned]

They need to keep this kid at his natural position, guard. His footwork is a little slow and guys like Clady and Harris make a world of difference when their both playing. Now teams are bum rushing Beadles because they know he's struggling and it causes an easy sack. He should do fine once he transitions back.

I'm struggling to understand how a kid that started his final three years in college as a tackle is considered a natural guard. :confused:

[DenBronx]

I'm struggling to understand how a kid that started his final three years in college as a tackle is considered a natural guard. :confused:

Maybe in college he could get by with being an average tackle but in the NFL the game is much faster and guys like Kampman only help prove that. Beadles for now I think would do better at playing guard. And why put a rookie right into the fire? Clearly he's not ready to protect anyones blind side.

[Lonestar]

I'm struggling to understand how a kid that started his final three years in college as a tackle is considered a natural guard. :confused:

Add me to this list.

HE played OLT for much of his college career Granted it was not against NFL talent MOST of the time.

But even so the two positions are very different skill sets as is Moving to ORT .

Someone that is blessed with enuff talent to be able to play multiple spots will play for a long time. Perhaps not be an all Pro but make a decent living.

I suspect he was trying to say the Natural SIZE to be a OG

[Lonestar]

Maybe in college he could get by with being an average tackle but in the NFL the game is much faster and guys like Kampman only help prove that. Beadles for now I think would do better at playing guard. And why put a rookie right into the fire? Clearly he's not ready to protect anyones blind side.


was not aware that Tebow was in the game.

[Tempus Fugit]

Maybe in college he could get by with being an average tackle but in the NFL the game is much faster and guys like Kampman only help prove that. Beadles for now I think would do better at playing guard. And why put a rookie right into the fire? Clearly he's not ready to protect anyones blind side.

Other than one throw last year, when has Orton been a leftie?

[DenBronx]

Maybe we are putting too much on this kids plate right now.

Too many positions in a rookie year to learn is too much.

[honz]

Beadles was a great LT at Utah and had few problems in pass protection. He was going against Kampman in his first game as a pro and seemed to be a little overwhelmed. I suspect he will play much better this week if Harris is still out. If he struggles again this week, then it would become a real concern as to whether he will be able to play OT in the NFL.

[DenBronx]

Other than one throw last year, when has Orton been a leftie?

What if Tebow comes in the game? Which, Josh has stated several times he will have a place on game day.

Tebow is a lefty.

That would be his blind side.

[Tempus Fugit]

What if Tebow comes in the game? Which, Josh has stated several times he will have a place on game day.

Tebow is a lefty.

That would be his blind side.

And you think Beadle's problem is that he's not ready for 2-4 plays a game? Come on, now. When your starters are out, and your backups are rookies, you're usually going to have some problems. It's a part of being in the NFL.


Cheer up. It could be worse. Instead of Beadles, it could be Alex Barron over there at right tackle.

[DenBronx]

And you think Beadle's problem is that he's not ready for 2-4 plays a game? Come on, now. When your starters are out, and your backups are rookies, you're usually going to have some problems. It's a part of being in the NFL.


Cheer up. It could be worse. Instead of Beadles, it could be Alex Barron over there at right tackle.

Don't get me wrong I think Beadles has worlds of talent but nearly HALF of the first rounders this year are not starting let alone 2nd rounders. I think we have bombarded this kid with way too much let alone play one of the most important positions in football right now. I think playing guard would allow him to settle and transition to the game speed of the NFL.

Looks like Harris and Kuper might both be out Sunday. Beadles will get tested once again and if he has a game like he did last Sunday I'm not so sure that will help his confidence.

[Lonestar]

Maybe we are putting too much on this kids plate right now.

Too many positions in a rookie year to learn is too much.

Perhaps but he might be thrown to the wolves to get him ready to play ORT when Harris goes or IF harris does not come back as IIRC he now has missed more games in his career than he has played.

Better to find out now than after Harris wants huge money when his contract is up after this year.

If the Kid can't handle it it is either trade time OR spending a first on an OT. Because frankly Clady's contract is coming due the year after.


Beadles was a great LT at Utah and had few problems in pass protection. He was going against Kampman in his first game as a pro and seemed to be a little overwhelmed. I suspect he will play much better this week if Harris is still out. If he struggles again this week, then it would become a real concern as to whether he will be able to play OT in the NFL.



I don't think that they are going to switch him out for one who goes in?

[robert ethan]

Beadles was a reach in the second round, and Walton only slightly less so in the third. Josh is gambling on their smarts overcoming athletic deficiency. But that takes time and experience, and unless the staff gets at least one more capable vet on the line, the team is going to be in a huge hole by the time the rooks reach the point of adequacy. I'm pretty sure the Maroney deal with N.E. was an offshoot of more serious negotiations for Logan Mankins. I think sending the extra second rounder they have in 2011 to the Pats is completely justified.

[Tned]

Add me to this list.

HE played OLT for much of his college career Granted it was not against NFL talent MOST of the time.

But even so the two positions are very different skill sets as is Moving to ORT .

Someone that is blessed with enuff talent to be able to play multiple spots will play for a long time. Perhaps not be an all Pro but make a decent living.

I suspect he was trying to say the Natural SIZE to be a OG

This is an example of what Dread was talking about earlier, where when people repeat stuff often enough, it becomes fact.

Here is what coach McDaniels said about Beadles, which is not in line with what fans in this thread seem to believe:


While he has played on the left side in college, McDaniels sees him as a future impact player on the right side. "He's played left tackle, but we feel the could compete at both (right and left). Maybe a little more of a right tackle than a left tackle...", McDaniels said. "We're going to put him at tackle and he will also play guard."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/384376-2010-nfl-draft-denvers-insurance-policy

[dogfish]

I'm struggling to understand how a kid that started his final three years in college as a tackle is considered a natural guard. :confused:

that term is commonly used as a description of a player's skill set, as well as college experience. . . a number of scouts questioned whether beadles has the footwork to play tackle successfully at the next level, and projected that he may be a more "natural" fit at guard. . . as an example, IMO ryan harris is a natural left tackle. . . he has kick ass feet, balance and hand placement with a deep kick-step to cut off edge speed-- he mirrors, slides and redirects easily. . . and he's not really a mauling run blocker. . . he was projected as a left tackle, and would probably be one if we hadn't drafted clady. . .

personally, i think beadles is more of a 'tweener than a natural anything. . .

[Tned]

that term is commonly used as a description of a player's skill set, as well as college experience. . . a number of scouts questioned whether beadles has the footwork to play tackle successfully at the next level, and projected that he may be a more "natural" fit at guard. . . as an example, IMO ryan harris is a natural left tackle. . . he has kick ass feet, balance and hand placement with a deep kick-step to cut off edge speed-- he mirrors, slides and redirects easily. . . and he's not really a mauling run blocker. . . he was projected as a left tackle, and would probably be one if we hadn't drafted clady. . .

personally, i think beadles is more of a 'tweener than a natural anything. . .

I can understand that, but a great many people in this thread are trying to claim McDaniels drafted him to be a guard, which is far from reality. Based on his post-draft pressers, it sounds like he saw him as a replacement/backup for Harris, with the potential to "also" play guard. Doesn't mean McDaniels and company evaluated his talent correctly, but the fact is that McDaniels didn't draft him as a guard and out of the blue moved him to tackle, it was the other way around.

[Bosco]

Beadles was a reach in the second round, and Walton only slightly less so in the third. Josh is gambling on their smarts overcoming athletic deficiency.

Where do you come up with such fantastically wrong information? Both Beadles and Walton were 2nd and 3rd round talents and neither one of them have "athletic deficencies".

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=67969&draftyear=2010&genpos=OT

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66680&draftyear=2010&genpos=C

Facepalm.

[Tempus Fugit]

Beadles was a reach in the second round, and Walton only slightly less so in the third. Josh is gambling on their smarts overcoming athletic deficiency. But that takes time and experience, and unless the staff gets at least one more capable vet on the line, the team is going to be in a huge hole by the time the rooks reach the point of adequacy. I'm pretty sure the Maroney deal with N.E. was an offshoot of more serious negotiations for Logan Mankins. I think sending the extra second rounder they have in 2011 to the Pats is completely justified.

Well, this explains a lot, anyway.

[DenBronx]

While he has played on the left side in college, McDaniels sees him as a future impact player on the right side. "He's played left tackle, but we feel the could compete at both (right and left). Maybe a little more of a right tackle than a left tackle...", McDaniels said. "We're going to put him at tackle and he will also play guard."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...surance-policy


Well then basically he's just a backup or gets the starting job by injury default because I don't see him beating out Clady, Kuper or Harris when healthy anytime soon.

A true tweener he is. For now.

[Lonestar]

This is an example of what Dread was talking about earlier, where when people repeat stuff often enough, it becomes fact.

Here is what coach McDaniels said about Beadles, which is not in line with what fans in this thread seem to believe:

Not because this comment by Josh. It was my belief that he was picked very soon after Tebow was that he was destined to be his blind side OT.

They took him a lot faster than they normally would have IMO.

But with harris' injury patteren and Clady having jus a couple more years before he is going to want TOP tackle money I think they were preparing for one or both of our guys not being here and harris well has missed more games than he has played in his career. IIRC.
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[Tempus Fugit]

Well then basically he's just a backup or gets the starting job by injury default because I don't see him beating out Clady, Kuper or Harris when healthy anytime soon.

A true tweener he is. For now.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. Backup and Tweener are not the same thing.

[robert ethan]

Where do you come up with such fantastically wrong information? Both Beadles and Walton were 2nd and 3rd round talents and neither one of them have "athletic deficencies".

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=67969&draftyear=2010&genpos=OT

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66680&draftyear=2010&genpos=C

Facepalm.

I can come up with a dozen counters nfldrafscout ratings, but that just clogs the thread. If you check consensus draft ratings, I will bet large sums of money that Beadles and Walton are rated at least a round later than they were picked.

[Tned]

Well then basically he's just a backup or gets the starting job by injury default because I don't see him beating out Clady, Kuper or Harris when healthy anytime soon.

A true tweener he is. For now.

It seems pretty clear that McDaniels drated him as a tackle, but felt he could play guard. Since guard was the current need, he appears to have seen enough in OTA's, mini-camps and training camp, that he gave Beadles the job (wasn't even a competition scenario in the first two pre-season games) and Beadles wasn't able to hold the job and lost it to Daniels who wasn't even in on anyone's radar.

[dogfish]

But with harris' injury patteren and Clady having jus a couple more years before he is going to want TOP tackle money I think they were preparing for one or both of our guys not being here and harris well has missed more games than he has played in his career. IIRC.
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i think we could WELL be preparing to move on without harris, but not clady-- not unless he hurt his knee so badly that he's never the same, which probably isn't all that likely. . .

i know you don't like guys getting paid, but your boy josh is NOT stupid, he showed it by locking up doom-- and you can bet he won't be letting clady go anywhere, either. . .

harris could prove to be another story. . . however, even if we move him, don't expect to see beadles ever protecting tebow's blind side. . . when mcdaniels says zane is "more a right tackle," the subtext also reads "aka, NOT a blind side protector". . . kid may or may not have the feet to play either tackle position, but nobody is going to voluntarily put him on their potential franchise QB's blind side. . .

[DenBronx]

This makes absolutely no sense at all. Backup and Tweener are not the same thing.

A tweener is someone who doesn't fit at one natural position. Someone who can play multiple roles yet not be dominate at any given role, yet shows signs that he could.

With time and development a tweener can become a special player. Right now I think Beadles is still trying to find his way.

Where in the tar did I say a backup is the same thing as a tweener?

Beadles IS a tweener that is a backup at multiple positions. He has been playing tackle ONLY BY DEFAULT due to to injuries. No way he wins the job if Harris is healthy.

[Northman]

Since joining just a few days ago, your posts are gripes about Walton, Beadles and Quinn. Which banned person are you a dupe of?

Lets try not to get personal man. Stick to the topic.

[robert ethan]

Since joining just a few days ago, your posts are gripes about Walton, Beadles and Quinn. Which banned person are you a dupe of?

LOL, nice to meet you too. No gripes about the guys personally. Quinn had no control over where he was drafted, and neither do the other two. Keep that distinction in mind when you're trying to pick a fight. All three were taken higher than necessary, and all three are detrimental to the team at the moment. All I'm saying.

[dogfish]

I can come up with a dozen counters nfldrafscout ratings, but that just clogs the thread. If you check consensus draft ratings, I will bet large sums of money that Beadles and Walton are rated at least a round later than they were picked.

walton was more or less a consensus third rounder, as far as i saw. . .


what sites are you talking about?

[DenBronx]

It seems pretty clear that McDaniels drated him as a tackle, but felt he could play guard. Since guard was the current need, he appears to have seen enough in OTA's, mini-camps and training camp, that he gave Beadles the job (wasn't even a competition scenario in the first two pre-season games) and Beadles wasn't able to hold the job and lost it to Daniels who wasn't even in on anyone's radar.

I think with the history of injuries to Harris and the offseason injury to Clady Josh needed someone that could play both G and T, whether it was on the right or left.

[Tempus Fugit]

A tweener is someone who doesn't fit at one natural position. Someone who can play multiple roles yet not be dominate at any given role, yet shows signs that he could.

With time and development a tweener can become a special player. Right now I think Beadles is still trying to find his way.

Where in the tar did I say a backup is the same thing as a tweener?

Beadles IS a tweener that is a backup at multiple positions. He has been playing tackle ONLY BY DEFAULT due to to injuries. No way he wins the job if Harris is healthy.

Your post was about Beadles being a backup at tackle and then just jumping to the claim he is a tweener. It just didn't make any sense. You're basically demanding that a second round pick be ready as a starting tackle on day one in order to be worth a damn, so I guess that's the real issue.

[Tempus Fugit]

LOL, nice to meet you too. No gripes about the guys personally. Quinn had no control over where he was drafted, and neither do the other two. Keep that distinction in mind when you're trying to pick a fight. All three were taken higher than necessary, and all three are detrimental to the team at the moment. All I'm saying.

I get what you're saying. You're using 3 players, 2 that were drafted about where they were expected to be drafted, as a means of indirectly bashing the coach/GM. It's just a silly thing to be doing when 2 of those 3 players are rookies with just one NFL game under their belts.

[DenBronx]

Your post was about Beadles being a backup at tackle and then just jumping to the claim he is a tweener. It just didn't make any sense. You're basically demanding that a second round pick be ready as a starting tackle on day one in order to be worth a damn, so I guess that's the real issue.


No no please go back and re-read what I posted. I think I explained myself.

I never said a 2nd round pick should be a starter on day one. That's completely opposite of what I said.

[Tempus Fugit]

No no please go back and re-read what I posted. I think I explained myself.

I never said a 2nd round pick should be a starter on day one. That's completely opposite of what I said.

Right now, he's a backup at the tackle and guard positions, who's been forced into a starting role at right tackle because of injuries to players ahead of him. I don't really get why people are trying to make this any more complicated than that.

Also, I read your posts. You're contradicting yourself. If the player's not established himself because he's a rookie, he can't really be classified as a 'tweener' yet.

[Lonestar]

I get what you're saying. You're using 3 players, 2 that were drafted about where they were expected to be drafted, as a means of indirectly bashing the coach/GM. It's just a silly thing to be doing when 2 of those 3 players are rookies with just one NFL game under their belts.

I think you got the context here. Especially the hilited portion.

[jhildebrand]

I have no problem with Beadles or his struggles. I expect it. I don't expect a rookie to perform like Clady did. I agree with some on the idea of moving him around.

Beadles will be better for this and so will the Broncos. I just wish we were starting more of our rookies or playing them much more. Truthfully, I would be ok starting Syd and Perrish and getting something for Champ while we can. Run Moreno's legs off.

I want a roster full of youth and learning to play together. I would be much less critical of the team's record, and McDaniels in general, were that to happen.

[Bosco]

I can come up with a dozen counters nfldrafscout ratings And none of them are worth a damn. NFL Draft Scout, year in and year out, has been the most accurate of any independent, publicly accessible site. Their work has been so good that CBS cut a merger deal with them to bring them into the fold.

The only draft nerds I trust more than them is Mike Mayock.

[DenBronx]

Right now, he's a backup at the tackle and guard positions, who's been forced into a starting role at right tackle because of injuries to players ahead of him. I don't really get why people are trying to make this any more complicated than that.

Also, I read your posts. You're contradicting yourself. If the player's not established himself because he's a rookie, he can't really be classified as a 'tweener' yet.

Wrong. You can be classified a tweener before even gettng to the NFL. Try watching the combine sometime.

Never did I contradict myself. You're just having trouble understanding a tweener and a backup are two differant things. Which I also cleared up.

Don't know what your hang up is.

[robert ethan]

I think you got the context here. Especially the hilited portion.

Credit where credit is due, and criticism where it is warranted. Beadles was NOT rated as a second round pick by most scouts. He was not much more than adequate in college and has no outstanding physical traits. His best qualities are his intelligence and personality. More or less the same can be said for Walton. I have no problem with either player outside of the fact that they were taken higher than necessary and put directly into the starting lineup. That is a recipe for disaster, and was probably the single biggest reason for the first game loss. Josh HAS to get another solid experienced O lineman. Better late than never. Anything short of a first round pick for Mankins, and soon.

[Lonestar]

Credit where credit is due, and criticism where it is warranted. Beadles was NOT rated as a second round pick by most scouts. He was not much more than adequate in college and has no outstanding physical traits. His best qualities are his intelligence and personality. More or less the same can be said for Walton. I have no problem with either player outside of the fact that they were taken higher than necessary and put directly into the starting lineup. That is a recipe for disaster, and was probably the single biggest reason for the first game loss. Josh HAS to get another solid experienced O lineman. Better late than never. Anything short of a first round pick for Mankins, and soon.

OK I'm confused here what was Josh supposed to due. Play lesser guys just because they were not rookies.

I'm sure that the whole idea of taking quality OL guys on day 2 was to play them as soon as possible. Especially since the guys they replaced last year sucked.


Having you OLT and your ORT not be up to snuff is an anomaly not SOP.

However we all knew that Clady would not be playing at 100% this year.

as far as Harris was concerned I think we all knew that at some point this year he would be injured I suspect everyone thought it would have been after the bye. allowing the rookies to get some experience and game time before being thrown to the wolves.

Unless these guys are bust which is highly doubtful at this point there would be zero value in bringing in more FA OLINE guys to weather the storm.

Lets not worry about building bridges till we get to the river and see how deep it is.

[robert ethan]

If it was up to me I'd send the extra second rounder to the Pats for Mankins (or something close to that) and go through the season with Hochstein, Kuper, and Mankins inside, while trying to get as many games as possible from Clady and Harris outside. That would be a solid O line. Beadles and Walton could work their way in gradually, or as necessary.

[Lonestar]

If it was up to me I'd send the extra second rounder to the Pats for Mankins (or something close to that) and go through the season with Hochstein, Kuper, and Mankins inside, while trying to get as many games as possible from Clady and Harris outside. That would be a solid O line. Beadles and Walton could work their way in gradually, or as necessary.

Mankins is a stud but they are going to get more for him than a second and we really do not need the huge contract he will bring to the table.

He was prepared for a long hold out he saved his money instead of blowing it on cars and jewelery so he is prepared for the long haul, which could be two more years if they franchise him.

[dogfish]

Credit where credit is due, and criticism where it is warranted. Beadles was NOT rated as a second round pick by most scouts. He was not much more than adequate in college and has no outstanding physical traits. His best qualities are his intelligence and personality. More or less the same can be said for Walton. I have no problem with either player outside of the fact that they were taken higher than necessary and put directly into the starting lineup. That is a recipe for disaster, and was probably the single biggest reason for the first game loss. Josh HAS to get another solid experienced O lineman. Better late than never. Anything short of a first round pick for Mankins, and soon.

and then next year when we don't have the pick, everyone can criticise mcdaniels for drafting linemen and not developing them. . . no thanks. . .

probably makes more sense to give the guys more than a game before making a panic move. . . who knows, maybe they actually still have some room for improvement. . . i think you can just as easily pin this loss on two consecutive kick returns to mid-field, and buckhalter's fumble, if you want to play the blame game. . .

[DenBronx]

If it was up to me I'd send the extra second rounder to the Pats for Mankins (or something close to that) and go through the season with Hochstein, Kuper, and Mankins inside, while trying to get as many games as possible from Clady and Harris outside. That would be a solid O line. Beadles and Walton could work their way in gradually, or as necessary.

I'm actually more worried about our D-line than our O-line. At least at some point Kuper, Clady and Harris might all play together but Dume isn't coming back. If we we're going to deal any draft choices I would hope it would be for some pass rush help. We are not putting any pressure on the QB at all and the one sack we did have it was a team effort or possibly part of Winks "agressive" style scheme.

[DenBronx]

and then next year when we don't have the pick, everyone can criticise mcdaniels for drafting linemen and not developing them. . . no thanks. . .

probably makes more sense to give the guys more than a game before making a panic move. . . who knows, maybe they actually still have some room for improvement. . . i think you can just as easily pin this loss on two consecutive kick returns to mid-field, and buckhalter's fumble, if you want to play the blame game. . .


If not for the two 15 yard face mask we still might have won that game. I think we killed ourselves.

[sneakers]

Remember Elway's first game? Yeah what a bum!

[dogfish]

I'm actually more worried about our D-line than our O-line. At least at some point Kuper, Clady and Harris might all play together but Dume isn't coming back. If we we're going to deal any draft choices I would hope it would be for some pass rush help. We are not putting any pressure on the QB at all and the one sack we did have it was a team effort or possibly part of Winks "agressive" style scheme.

absolutely. . . we have three excellent veteran OLs, an adequate veteran utility reserve, and four young players added to the roster this year. . .

what we need is a little patience-- to *hopefully* get all three of the vets relatively healthy (even if clady is never 100% this year), and/or allow the rooks a bit of time to develop. . . we're not going to the super bowl this year regardless. . . not that mankins isn't a solid addition if he actually is available for a second, but it behooves us to see what we've got with all the pieces we currently have, because we may well have answers already on the roster that won't cost anything to acquire, let alone the fat contract extension he's going to want. . .

i agree, if we were to make a trade-- which i'm in no rush to see-- the D-line is the area that needs a talent infusion the most. . . when it comes to pass rush, i am excited to see what ayers can do. . . looks like he's a good ways past where he was last year-- he still has a long way to go as well, but it looks like he's going to be productive this year. . .

obviously i don't think anyone loves hunter as a starter, but i do think he has some potential. . . i'm rewatching the game right now, and i've been paying attention to him. . . dude needs to stay home on the backside, it will help our run D considerably. . . in terms of pass rush, he's not very explosive, but he does keep his hands active and disengage from blocks pretty nicely. . . i don't know that he's fast enough to ever be a real sack guy, but i think he has some potential to develop into an adequate rusher-- he has a few moves, if he can expand that repertoire, learn to time his blitzes playing linebacker, etc, he may develop into a productive guy in time. . .

we'll see. . . most likely pass rush is going to be an issue all year. . . i can't imagine there's going to be much quality available through trade at this point, and there's just no use in giving up another pick for the five-technique or rushbacker equivalent of maroney. . . especially when we're going to have doom back next year, and ayers looks to be coming on. . . it won't make this year more fun (for us OR the coaching staff!), but unless something unusually good happens to come up, we're better off just gutting it out this year and waiting. . .

i absolutely do want to see some draft picks spent on the defensive line in the very near future, but i much prefer actually using the picks to draft our own young talent. . . almost everything available for trade at this point is available for a good reason. . .

[DenBronx]

Good post dogfish.

I think it's highly unlikely to see a trade of any high caliber players at this point. #1, I think we need to hold on to all of our higher draft picks and #2. If there is a team in the NFL that has their pass rush working right now then I don't think they would want to tinker with it. Plus since we spent two 1st on DE's then we will give them this year to see what they got.

Schobel is the only one I can think of at the moment but he doesn't want to unretire, plus Houston would outbid us and not to mention he likes a 4-3.

[Lonestar]

Let's see IF we could give a 2nd for mankins HE would be worth it as he is a Guaranteed player. He knows the scheme. Wow it would be a HUGE addition.

Until it comes to money and when your doing contract.

Does anyone really believe Josh wants to tie up that amount of money for him when he is looking very soon at resigning clady and harris.

Not to mention we are going have to plan on a new NT and and maybe a DE.

By the for those that are lumping doom into playing the DL he is a front 7 player as an OLB.
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[EastCoastBronco]

It was his first ever NFL game.
Could we give him just a little break considering, and wait until week 4-5?
And i agree, stop moving him around. Hes a rookie and hes not that flexible
at every position at top NFL levels just yet.
Not every O-linemen is going to come in a rookie and be Clady right away.
Jeez!


As you have probably noticed SOCOLORADO, patience isn't a real big trait among a lot of the members on this board...;-)

[claymore]

IMO Beadles was set up for failure. He should have stayed at one position. I said the same thing about DJ Williams.

Its not the players I dont like. Its our young coach that makes split second decisions without any foresight of the consequences. He's like a blind deaf Bull trying to find his way thru a congested alley.

[robert ethan]

I'm actually more worried about our D-line than our O-line. At least at some point Kuper, Clady and Harris might all play together but Dume isn't coming back. If we we're going to deal any draft choices I would hope it would be for some pass rush help. We are not putting any pressure on the QB at all and the one sack we did have it was a team effort or possibly part of Winks "agressive" style scheme.

In a 3-4 defense, the front lineman are just there to clog things up mainly. The linebackers and safeties make the plays on the QB. Bannan, Williams, and whomever can do that fine. They will miss Dumervil's rush ability, but they brought in a few new guys and Ayers and Moss have improved from what I hear. Safety position is strong with two vets and two solid younger players.

[jhildebrand]

Let's see IF we could give a 2nd for mankins HE would be worth it as he is a Guaranteed player. He knows the scheme. Wow it would be a HUGE addition.

Until it comes to money and when your doing contract.

Does anyone really believe Josh wants to tie up that amount of money for him when he is looking very soon at resigning clady and harris.

Not to mention we are going have to plan on a new NT and and maybe a DE.

By the for those that are lumping doom into playing the DL he is a front 7 player as an OLB.
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Mankins is a bad apple and wants too much money. You heard him throw Bob Kraft under the bus. Sheesh with your distaste for Dumervil and his deal I would think Mankins would be untouchable! It flies in the face of everything you said when Dumervil wanted his deal.

PS: You do know how much money Mankins is looking for...right? :confused:

[Bosco]

IMO Beadles was set up for failure. He should have stayed at one position. I said the same thing about DJ Williams.

Its not the players I dont like. Its our young coach that makes split second decisions without any foresight of the consequences. He's like a blind deaf Bull trying to find his way thru a congested alley.

What else could he have done? Both of his tackles are hurt, Beadles had the skillset to kick outside and Stanley Daniels just happened to look like a real player. It's far from an ideal situation, but circumstances pretty much forced McDaniels hand. That's a pretty different situation then Shanahan, who bounced guys like D.J, Cecil Sapp and Terry Pierce around to fill whatever role suited his mood at the time.

And besides, you act like the guy is going to be irreversibly damaged by this move. That's not quite the case.

[broncosinindy]

How does anyone really expect him to play when he's been shuffled around so much. His natural position is guard. The difference between guard and tackle are completely different, top it off with having to get used to the speed of the game and it's not good. Hopefully he is able to get back over to guard soon and we'll see good things from him.

This one is definitely on the coaches. You should have some depth on the Oline and shouldn't be in the position to have to move a rookie around to different places on the line.

While i aggree it will hurt him short term however long term i think it will make him a more rounded player.

[Dzone]

I felt sorry for beadles. He was getting his ass handed to him

[jhildebrand]

I felt sorry for beadles. He was getting his ass handed to him

It is worth it though. Aaron Kampman is still a very good player. It will only serve to shorten the learning curve for Beadles. So long as he is learning. By season's end we should see a more polished Beadles.

I also like we haven't heard much about Walton.

Now let's see if we can get some of the rookie WR's on the field and in action.

[spikerman]

As you have probably noticed SOCOLORADO, patience isn't a real big trait among a lot of the members on this board...;-)

It's not a lack of patience, it's that the team does not seem to be getting any better and IMO, as I look at the roster it seems to be getting less and less talented over time. Not exactly a recipe for success in the NFL.

[Lonestar]

It's not a lack of patience, it's that the team does not seem to be getting any better and IMO, as I look at the roster it seems to be getting less and less talented over time. Not exactly a recipe for success in the NFL.

So at which positions are we talking about. If it is just BM and Jay we are talking about I'm thinking that replacements are alreadt on the roster. As for schfler I was not impressed there to start with.

Then of course you night be talking about 08 D as compared to today. If that is the case then LMAO.
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[JaxBroncoGirl]

absolutely. . . we have three excellent veteran OLs, an adequate veteran utility reserve, and four young players added to the roster this year. . .

what we need is a little patience-- to *hopefully* get all three of the vets relatively healthy (even if clady is never 100% this year), and/or allow the rooks a bit of time to develop. . . we're not going to the super bowl this year regardless. . . not that mankins isn't a solid addition if he actually is available for a second, but it behooves us to see what we've got with all the pieces we currently have, because we may well have answers already on the roster that won't cost anything to acquire, let alone the fat contract extension he's going to want. . .

i agree, if we were to make a trade-- which i'm in no rush to see-- the D-line is the area that needs a talent infusion the most. . . when it comes to pass rush, i am excited to see what ayers can do. . . looks like he's a good ways past where he was last year-- he still has a long way to go as well, but it looks like he's going to be productive this year. . .

obviously i don't think anyone loves hunter as a starter, but i do think he has some potential. . . i'm rewatching the game right now, and i've been paying attention to him. . . dude needs to stay home on the backside, it will help our run D considerably. . . in terms of pass rush, he's not very explosive, but he does keep his hands active and disengage from blocks pretty nicely. . . i don't know that he's fast enough to ever be a real sack guy, but i think he has some potential to develop into an adequate rusher-- he has a few moves, if he can expand that repertoire, learn to time his blitzes playing linebacker, etc, he may develop into a productive guy in time. . .

we'll see. . . most likely pass rush is going to be an issue all year. . . i can't imagine there's going to be much quality available through trade at this point, and there's just no use in giving up another pick for the five-technique or rushbacker equivalent of maroney. . . especially when we're going to have doom back next year, and ayers looks to be coming on. . . it won't make this year more fun (for us OR the coaching staff!), but unless something unusually good happens to come up, we're better off just gutting it out this year and waiting. . .

i absolutely do want to see some draft picks spent on the defensive line in the very near future, but i much prefer actually using the picks to draft our own young talent. . . almost everything available for trade at this point is available for a good reason. . .

Well based on 1 game, I think you are right about our pass rush not being effective. We played the Jaguars and generally Garrard is usually on his back 1/2 the time with other teams. Again you are right, anything available now is available for a good reason, so I do not see anything happening until next year and hopefully we can draft DL that can make things happen.

[spikerman]

So at which positions are we talking about. If it is just BM and Jay we are talking about I'm thinking that replacements are alreadt on the roster. As for schfler I was not impressed there to start with.

Then of course you night be talking about 08 D as compared to today. If that is the case then LMAO.
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I've asked the questions before and all I've ever gotten in response was crickets chirping. Who are the proven playmakers on offense for this team? Who on this offense scares another team?

The '08 defense was bad. It was probably one of the worst I have ever seen. I wouldn't expect any defense to be as bad as that one. Let's be honest though, Denver still cannot stop the run and made Garrard look like an all-pro last week.

Speaking just for me, I wouldn't be looking for the Broncos to challenge for the Super Bowl in McDaniels' 2nd year, but I would expect there to be tangible signs of progress. It's early, but through one season and one game I don't believe this team is any better (and is probably worse offensively) than the one he inherited.

[Bosco]

Who are the proven playmakers on offense for this team? Define "playmaker".

[spikerman]

Define "playmaker".

A player that a team has to design gameplans to stop? Kind of like in my follow up question. Who on the Broncos' offense scares a defense?

[Bosco]

A player that a team has to define gameplans to stop?

Well that pretty much includes everyone on the team if you want to get technical about it.

[spikerman]

Well that pretty much includes everyone on the team if you want to get technical about it.

Everybody? Really? So, if you're a defensive coordinator Bosco and you are planning to shut down the Broncos, who is the guy that you worry about matching up with?

[Bosco]

Everybody? Really? So, if you're a defensive coordinator Bosco and you are planning to shut down the Broncos, who is the guy that you worry about matching up with?

Our three main receivers, obviously. A motivated Brandon Lloyd is a pretty dangerous deep receiver, as we all saw on Sunday. Royal is doing well back in the slot now and Gaffney is very good at exploiting seams in the intermediate zones.

Defenses can't sit back and flood a certain zone to stop one player now. They have to be prepared to defend all of them while also accounting for the running game, which is what the spread offense is all about. This is exactly what Josh McDaniels did in 2007, the year his offense made the jump from "good" to "elite" and he's modeling our current offense off that same philosophy.

[spikerman]

Our three main receivers, obviously. A motivated Brandon Lloyd is a pretty dangerous deep receiver, as we all saw on Sunday. Royal is doing well back in the slot now and Gaffney is very good at exploiting seams in the intermediate zones.

Defenses can't sit back and flood a certain zone to stop one player now. They have to be prepared to defend all of them while also accounting for the running game, which is what the spread offense is all about. This is exactly what Josh McDaniels did in 2007, the year his offense made the jump from "good" to "elite" and he's modeling our current offense off that same philosophy.

The three main receivers you're talking about don't have a track record of consistent playmaking ability. Gaffney is solid, Royal shows promise, and I like Lloyd, but there is a reason he's never become a true number one receiver. I'm sure McDaniels would like to replicate what was in New England in 2007. Unfortunately, Denver doesn't have a Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, or even a Ben Watson on the roster. Those guys consistently made plays and scared people. I would like to think that Royal could eventually do the things that Welker does, as consistently as he does, but nobody currently playing for Denver has shown the playmaking ability that those guys do week in and week out.

That's my whole point. The team concept is good, but there has to be the threat of the homerun at anytime too. Denver had that when McDaniels arrived. I don't believe they do now.

[Bosco]

The three main receivers you're talking about don't have a track record of consistent playmaking ability. Defensive coordinators don't game plan on track records. They game plan on the here and now. Right now, Lloyd is looking like a very serious deep threat, Royal is doing well in the slot and Gaffney is the same solid, consistent player he's been for the better part of a decade now.

[spikerman]

Defensive coordinators don't game plan on track records. They game plan on the here and now. Right now, Lloyd is looking like a very serious deep threat, Royal is doing well in the slot and Gaffney is the same solid, consistent player he's been for the better part of a decade now.

Defensive coordinators understand who can hurt them. IMO, there is nobody on the Broncos' offense they need to pay special attention to. If you're satisfied with the current skill position players, more power to you. Personally, I think the difference in overall ability between Denver and the upper tier teams is, sadly, huge.

[dogfish]

I've asked the questions before and all I've ever gotten in response was crickets chirping. Who are the proven playmakers on offense for this team?

it's pretty obvious that's what tebow and thomas were drafted for, and equally obvious that first year guys aren't going to be proven. . . eddie royal might claim that title back this year, though-- don't write him off based on last season, the kid can still play. . .

[Tempus Fugit]

Defensive coordinators understand who can hurt them. IMO, there is nobody on the Broncos' offense they need to pay special attention to. If you're satisfied with the current skill position players, more power to you. Personally, I think the difference in overall ability between Denver and the upper tier teams is, sadly, huge.

Using your definition, the only "playmakers" that were on the Broncos offense were Cutler and Marshall. Are we really going to have to go over why those individuals are no longer on the team all over again?

[spikerman]

Using your definition, the only "playmakers" that were on the Broncos offense were Cutler and Marshall. Are we really going to have to go over why those individuals are no longer on the team all over again?

I would include Scheffler on that list, and regardless of why they're not on the team anymore, they were playmakers, something which Denver now sorely lacks. It's why Denver has a lot of difficulty overcoming penalties and has to rely on long, sustained drives to score - which increases the possiblity for mistakes.

[spikerman]

it's pretty obvious that's what tebow and thomas were drafted for, and equally obvious that first year guys aren't going to be proven. . . eddie royal might claim that title back this year, though-- don't write him off based on last season, the kid can still play. . .

I would agree that that's why they were drafted. Unfortunately, nobody knows how it will work out. That's why I'm concerned with the lack of established playmakers.

[Tempus Fugit]

I would include Scheffler on that list, and regardless of why they're not on the team anymore, they were playmakers, something which Denver now sorely lacks. It's why Denver has a lot of difficulty overcoming penalties and has to rely on long, sustained drives to score - which increases the possiblity for mistakes.

1.) Scheffler was nothing that even approaches "playmaker" level.

2.) Denver's "difficulty overcoming penalties" is not because of a lack of playmakers. It's based upon only one game, though, so the argument is more than just a little bit too quickly put forth.

[spikerman]

1.) Scheffler was nothing that even approaches "playmaker" level.

2.) Denver's "difficulty overcoming penalties" is not because of a lack of playmakers. It's based upon only one game, though, so the argument is more than just a little bit too quickly put forth.

1.) Like him as a blocker or not, he could stretch the field.

2.) I'm also basing this off of last year. Although Scheffler was still here (we'll have to agree to disagree about whether he's a playmaker or not) he wasn't used, so the only true playmaker left was Marshall. Again, whether you agree with him being gone or not, he was a playmaker and made things happen on the field. Now he's gone, who's left?

The team concept is all well and good, but if McDaniels thinks that he's not going to have any "me" players or "head cases" on the team, he'll be the first coach in the history of the NFL to pull that one off.

[DenBronx]

Well it's official. McDaniels said today Beadles will play at RT in the place of an injured Ryan Harris.

I'm really nervous about this but it's not like we have a whole lot of options at the moment.

[spikerman]

Well it's official. McDaniels said today Beadles will play at RT in the place of an injured Ryan Harris.

I'm really nervous about this but it's not like we have a whole lot of options at the moment.

While it's not ideal and obviously it would be better if Harris was in there at least this gets one of the younger players more game experience. Hopefully, even though he's being moved around quite a bit, this will help him get used to the speed of the game so that in a year or two when he becomes a starter he'll be more prepared.

That's my "glass half full" thought of the day. :D

[robert ethan]

He'll get "Beadled" like a rented mule.

[Bosco]

Defensive coordinators understand who can hurt them. IMO, there is nobody on the Broncos' offense they need to pay special attention to. If you're satisfied with the current skill position players, more power to you. Personally, I think the difference in overall ability between Denver and the upper tier teams is, sadly, huge.

This post reminds me why I despise fantasy football.

[spikerman]

This post reminds me why I despise fantasy football.

I'm not sure I understand. I don't play fantasy football. I prefer to root for teams and not specific players. If that was a dig at me, sorry I missed it.

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by spikerman View Post
Defensive coordinators understand who can hurt them. IMO, there is nobody on the Broncos' offense they need to pay special attention to. If you're satisfied with the current skill position players, more power to you. Personally, I think the difference in overall ability between Denver and the upper tier teams is, sadly, huge.

Even before there was not someone that could beat the defense , I just do not understand why you think that jay, marshall and ts are so special.

The only thing DC were doing was putting heat on jay with rattling him with blitzes, allowing marshal to take all the bubble screen we could throw at him knowing he would drop 1/3 of them or more. A for ts an occasional deep ball that he may or may not catch..

Get serious about the Broncos having anyone special the past decade since Portis and maybe Jake with his scrambling left we have been not "special" for DC to have to worry about.

Time to move on..

[spikerman]

Even before there was not someone that could beat the defense , I just do not understand why you think that jay, marshall and ts are so special.

The only thing DC were doing was putting heat on jay with rattling him with blitzes, allowing marshal to take all the bubble screen we could throw at him knowing he would drop 1/3 of them or more. A for ts an occasional deep ball that he may or may not catch..

Get serious about the Broncos having anyone special the past decade since Portis and maybe Jake with his scrambling left we have been not "special" for DC to have to worry about.

Time to move on..

The Bears thought Cutler was "special" enough to trade multiple picks and their current starting QB for him. The Dolphins thought Marshall was "special" enough to trade two 2nd round picks for him. And like with TF, we'll have to agree to disagree about Scheffler. My overall point is not about those three guys. It's that a team has to have some "difference makers" and I just don't see any of them on the team right now. It's possible that DT will become one based on his physical attributes, but we can't know until he's able to get on the field and proves it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Getting back to the point of the thread. I do like the focus on the offensive line. While Beadles is struggling now, I think in the long run he'll be a much better lineman for it.

[Lonestar]

The Bears thought Cutler was "special" enough to trade multiple picks and their current starting QB for him. The Dolphins thought Marshall was "special" enough to trade two 2nd round picks for him. And like with TF, we'll have to agree to disagree about Scheffler. My overall point is not about those three guys. It's that a team has to have some "difference makers" and I just don't see any of them on the team right now. It's possible that DT will become one based on his physical attributes, but we can't know until he's able to get on the field and proves it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Getting back to the point of the thread. I do like the focus on the offensive line. While Beadles is struggling now, I think in the long run he'll be a much better lineman for it.

Briefly I believe we got the best side of both of those trade.

Just because someone else lusts after a player especially ones that were looking for HUGE money and are head cases.

Yes beadles is playing out of position and learning because of it. Ihave always beleived the he was drafted to take harriss spot when he is due another contract.

So this is is an audtion to see if he will be able to do the job. To detemine whether we pay harris or spend big money in the draft or to a FA next year. At worst beadles becomes a great all purpose Back up. But most likely OLG. He is a huge upgrade there over last year. IMHO
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